Microsoft de-cloaks Windows 8 push-button lifesaver

[Hardon]

<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/05/windows_8_reset_button/>

<quote>
Refresh or reset options for fraked PCs

Microsoft has revealed how the Windows 8 push-button reset feature
should save dying PCs when it hits beta in the coming weeks and is
delivered this year.

Windows 8 will offer two options to recover a crashed machine: reset
your PC or refresh your PC, Microsoft said on the Windows 8 blog here.

Reset will remove all personal data, apps and settings, and re-install
Windows 8; refresh will keep personal data, Metro-style apps,
"important" settings and re-install Windows.
</quote>

Microsoft innovation at its best. Any bets its still there after the
official release! :-)

[Big Steel]

On 1/5/2012 6:54 AM, Hardon wrote:

<snipped>

There is something wrong with him. He's turning out to be just a news
clipper. It doesn't look like he has a technical bone in his body other
than copy/past.

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that Hardon spake thusly:

Wow, Microsoft finally created a /real/ "Wipe'N'Reinstall" button.

How's that for an open admission that their crapware is totally
unserviceable?

Why don't they just call it the "We Give Up" button?

Another early sign that Tiles® 8 is going to sink like a brick.

--
K. | "UNIX is basically a simple operating
http://slated.org | system, but you have to be a genius
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky | to understand the simplicity"
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 227 days | ~ Dennis Ritchie

[Foster]

That's one eyed Roy Culley.
He's an overpaid system admin for XXXYYYY (easily located with
Google).

[Big Steel]

I don't want to know where that clown works. The fact that he is posting
with a "Hardon" says a lot about him. If he was hired by some company,
then it was a very poos choice.

[Foster]

He's a sorry old fool who has been nymshifting and posting from
anonymous servers for years.

One of his more popular nyms was "Robert Parsonage".

[chrisv]

Homer wrote:

>><http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/05/windows_8_reset_button/>

>
>
>Wow, Microsoft finally created a /real/ "Wipe'N'Reinstall" button.
>
>How's that for an open admission that their crapware is totally
>unserviceable?

You gotta admit, it's a good idea! 8)

They've probably thought of having such a thing years ago, but the
installation process was too difficult, up until recent times. It
must be said that Windwoes installation is now slam-dunk simple.

[Gordon]

On 05/01/2012 15:11, chrisv wrote:
>
> It must be said that Windwoes installation is now slam-dunk simple.
>

It certainly is. BUT - once you have installed Windows you THEN have to
also install your Office suite of choice (Windows comes with no office
suite), your email client of choice, (Windows 7 comes with no email
client), and of course your AV app of choice and at least two malware
apps of choice - so to get a FUNCTIONING Windows computer is still a
time-consuming task...

[Big Steel <]

So what the hell are you complaining about preacher Gordan?

[chrisv]

True.

Add you your list a decent text editor, among other things, and then
there's fixing all the Mickey Mouse defaults, like hiding
file-extensions...

--
"Because windows just normally installs straight away. People dont
want to have to learn about NDIS wrappers or modprobe etc" - "True
Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

[Lloyd]

In article <gtgbg7lh5686h3top...@4ax.com>,

chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Gordon wrote:
>
> > chrisv wrote:
> >>
> >> It must be said that Windwoes installation is now slam-dunk simple.
> >>
> >
> >It certainly is. BUT - once you have installed Windows you THEN have to
> >also install your Office suite of choice (Windows comes with no office
> >suite), your email client of choice, (Windows 7 comes with no email
> >client), and of course your AV app of choice and at least two malware
> >apps of choice - so to get a FUNCTIONING Windows computer is still a
> >time-consuming task...
>
> True.
>
> Add you your list a decent text editor, among other things, and then
> there's fixing all the Mickey Mouse defaults, like hiding
> file-extensions...

From a geek standpoint, that might be important. To the business or
average home user, not so much.

[Phil Da Lick!]

On 05/01/2012 15:11, chrisv wrote:

My money says the routine to do the save-data-reinstall will be some
massively overcomplicated process involving archiving/restoring for
hours on end when it could be achieved quite simply by putting the user
data on a seperate partition. Something I've been doing for years.

[Gordon]

On 05/01/2012 15:40, chrisv wrote:
> Gordon wrote:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> It must be said that Windwoes installation is now slam-dunk simple.
>>>
>>
>> It certainly is. BUT - once you have installed Windows you THEN have to
>> also install your Office suite of choice (Windows comes with no office
>> suite), your email client of choice, (Windows 7 comes with no email
>> client), and of course your AV app of choice and at least two malware
>> apps of choice - so to get a FUNCTIONING Windows computer is still a
>> time-consuming task...
>
> True.
>
> Add you your list a decent text editor, among other things, and then
> there's fixing all the Mickey Mouse defaults, like hiding
> file-extensions...
>

And even more deviously, if you buy the cheapest version of Office 2010,
Home and Student, it installs a TRIAL version of Outlook. It doesn't
TELL you it's a trial version, until you've been using it for 60 days
when Pow! The trial expires and you cannot use Outlook unless you either
buy it separately, or upgrade to a version of Office the DOES contain
Outlook.
How underhand is that...

[DFS]

On 1/5/2012 10:47 AM, Gordon wrote:
> On 05/01/2012 15:40, chrisv wrote:
>> Gordon wrote:
>>
>>> chrisv wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It must be said that Windwoes installation is now slam-dunk simple.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It certainly is. BUT - once you have installed Windows you THEN have to
>>> also install your Office suite of choice (Windows comes with no office
>>> suite), your email client of choice, (Windows 7 comes with no email
>>> client), and of course your AV app of choice and at least two malware
>>> apps of choice - so to get a FUNCTIONING Windows computer is still a
>>> time-consuming task...
>>
>> True.
>>
>> Add you your list a decent text editor, among other things, and then
>> there's fixing all the Mickey Mouse defaults, like hiding
>> file-extensions...
>>
>
> And even more deviously, if you buy the cheapest version of Office 2010,
> Home and Student, it installs a TRIAL version of Outlook. It doesn't

> TELL you it's a trial version,until you've been using it for 60 days

> when Pow! The trial expires and you cannot use Outlook unless you either
> buy it separately, or upgrade to a version of Office the DOES contain
> Outlook.
> How underhand is that...

I've never used Office Home/Student, but I bet you're lying through your
crooked teeth, Gortard.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Certainly not. They just want to click on "Naked-Tennisstar.JPG.EXE"

[Big Steel]

That sounds more like you porn-boy. I hear you Germans are freaky deaky.

[chrisv]

Lloyd wrote:

>> Add you your list a decent text editor, among other things, and then
>> there's fixing all the Mickey Mouse defaults, like hiding
>> file-extensions...
>
>From a geek standpoint, that might be important. To the business or
>average home user, not so much.

In the opinion of some idiot who chose the "made by morons for morons"
Mac.

[Big Steel]

On 1/5/2012 10:47 AM, Gordon wrote:

I got Office 2010 pro for free, I was given a MSDN license for free, and
all of you lip-service is ridiculous. That's what I mean about you
preacher Grodan. You are a two faced piece of crap. You cheese smile in
people's face in the MS forums, and then you come to this chicken-shit
NG and start tossing knives. You are absolute crap. No one should ever
be in a foxhole with you, because you knife them in the back - no doubt
about it.

[Lloyd]

In article <je4ho9$rpn$2...@dont-email.me>,

or run their CRM software, use a well supported office suite (not as big
a deal as in the past), and run all those other things that are
important in the day to day of operating a business.

They leave the programming to you, but then they don't pay you to do
Linux developement. I believe you make your living programming Windows
and recently, OSX.

I wonder why your employer doesn't do Linux?

[Lloyd]

In article <r0jbg7tldfd9uai12...@4ax.com>,

and Android, and Windows 7 and iOS...

[chrisv]

Lloyd wrote:

>>>> there's fixing all the Mickey Mouse defaults, like hiding
>>>> file-extensions...
>>>
>>> From a geek standpoint, that might be important. To the business or
>>> average home user, not so much.
>>
>> Certainly not. They just want to click on "Naked-Tennisstar.JPG.EXE"
>
>or run their CRM software, use a well supported office suite (not as big
>a deal as in the past), and run all those other things that are
>important in the day to day of operating a business.

Way to miss the point *again*, moron.

[Lloyd]

In article <uflbg710cbj4cf510...@4ax.com>,

Yeah, it is terrible when you do miss the point, but then that seems to
be the only thing you've actually accomplished.

[RonB]

On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 11:54:04 +0000, Hardon wrote:

> Reset will remove all personal data, apps and settings, and re-install
> Windows 8; refresh will keep personal data, Metro-style apps,
> "important" settings and re-install Windows.

They've already got restore and reinstall. Basically it comes down to
reinstalling after you've tried (several times) to restore. This is
Microsoft, what makes you think it will be different when they change the
names of the actions to "refresh" and "reset?"

--
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
CentOS 5.7 or VectorLinux Deluxe 6.0
or Linux Mint 10

[Clogwog]

"Gordon" <gordon...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:9mlv17...@mid.individual.net...

Boy, you are a retard, Gortard (as expected):
Outlook is NOT included in your cheapest version of Office 2010, Home and
Student, you cheap freetard!
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/buy/

[Gordon]

On 05/01/2012 18:21, Clogwog wrote:
>
> Boy, you are a retard, Gortard (as expected):
> Outlook is NOT included in your cheapest version of Office 2010, Home
> and Student, you cheap freetard!
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/buy/

Oh yes it is you JERK - a TRIAL VERSION. Do you actually know what a
TRIAL version means?
In fact it also includes a TRIAL version of Access as well.
Just shows you have NO knowledge of the current Microsoft Office
versions, but are just a big fat IGNORANT MORON.
Go and spend some time in the Microsoft Answers forums and then come
grovelling back.

[Gordon]

On 05/01/2012 18:21, Clogwog wrote:

>

> Boy, you are a retard, Gortard (as expected):
> Outlook is NOT included in your cheapest version of Office 2010, Home
> and Student, you cheap freetard!
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/buy/

I'll make it easy for you to grovel - here's one link in the Answers forum:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/officeversion_other-office_install/trial-outlook-office-home-and-student-2010/ee030852-bb6b-4884-8f97-f2da5551aa08
Now piss off you moron

[Foster]

Did you bother to read that?

"It was not automatically upgraded. You allowed the upgrade. There
was an option during installation to install the trial and you left
that option enabled. "

YOU installed the TRIAL VERSION on your own accord.
Sorry Gotard, but this time the problem is the user, and that's YOU.

Next time have someone else read the message boxes to you.

[JEDIDIAH]

Everyone has their own little bits of customization.

If you don't account for that then it won't be a complete refresh
and people will be stuck trying to figure out how to "fix" things
again. "Geeks" can handle this better than "normal people".

No. It's actually the business or home user for which a COMPLETE
version of this kind of tool is important.

--

Windows is a petri dish.
|||
Linux, MacOS, and likewise are beakers of alchohol. / | \

[Clogwog]

"Foster" <frankf...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:1b1un7w0woy0u.1...@40tude.net...

Gortard NEVER reads anything, the freetard, if he wasn't such a retard he
could have been able to install the temporary "FREE OFFER FOR COLLEGE, Buy
Microsoft Office Home and Student 2010 and /download/ *Outlook* , Publisher,
and Access for free!"
Sorry Gortard, but "The promotion has now ended"
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/buy/3-app-bonus-promotion-for-college-students-FX102473454.aspx
Poor Gortard, he's not the brightest knife in the drawer, he's more like a
bend spoon, what a maroon! lol

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that chrisv spake thusly:

[whoosh]

Sheeple like Lloyd don't care about being able to tell that a file is
not really what it pretends to be, but in fact Malware. But then neither
does Windows: the OS that made viewing E-mails and Web pages dangerous.

These are the same sorts of idiots who then claim their systems are not
bloated and slow, because they've never needed to install antivirus and
other types of crippling malware-detection software, and yet they've
never been affected by malware, so our claims about Windows' gross
insecurity must be bogus.

LOL!

And to address his irrelevant point: GNU/Linux already has CRM software
and well supported office suites. In fact most CRM software is cross
platform, and there are a number of both Free and proprietary office
suites for GNU/Linux.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CRM_systems
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_office_suites#Multi-platform_office_suites
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_office_suites#Office_suites_for_Unix.2FUnix-like_operating_systems

How can anyone not know this well-documented fact, and yet believe
they're qualified to argue about anything in the Linux advocacy
newsgroup?

--
K. | "You see? You cannot kill me. There is no flesh
http://slated.org | and blood within this cloak to kill. There is
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky | only an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 227 days | ~ V for Vendetta.

[Lloyd]

In article <brght8-...@sky.matrix>, Homer <use...@slated.org>
wrote:

And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
except for the geeks.

[Gordon]

That was just ONE example out of THOUSANDS you cretinous moron - do some
more research and then come back and grovel.

[Torre Starnes]

There is nothing to research, you moron.
You installed a trial version, it informed you it was a trial
version but you refused to read the box and act accordingly.

You have nobody to blame but yourself.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
> except for the geeks.

Indeed. Microsoft has the market, the infrastructure, and the trial
freebies locked up tight. The average person has little chance of even
knowing about Linux, let alone finding a Linux system at Office Depot.

And yet their share slowly, ever so slowly, declines, while Linux's
share slowly, ever so slowly, increases..

--
So Gobbler, do let us know when more "advocates" are coming onto your
"show"...
-- "Hadron" <tl1uzjd...@news.eternal-september.org>

[Lloyd]

In article <je57ov$4b2$2...@dont-email.me>,

Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@xzoozy.com> wrote:

> Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
> > And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
> > except for the geeks.
>
> Indeed. Microsoft has the market, the infrastructure, and the trial
> freebies locked up tight. The average person has little chance of even
> knowing about Linux, let alone finding a Linux system at Office Depot.
>
> And yet their share slowly, ever so slowly, declines, while Linux's
> share slowly, ever so slowly, increases..

So do you think you and I will be alive when Linux on the desktop is at
say, 25%?? :)

Personally at the rate its going, I'm pretty sure I won't be.

[Gordon]

On 05/01/2012 21:02, Clogwog wrote:

>

> Poor Gortard, he's not the brightest knife in the drawer, he's more like
> a bend spoon, what a maroon! lol

Oh sure. And here's another post where a MICROSOFT ENGINEER posts a
method of UNINSTALLING THE TRIAL VERSIONS INCLUDED IN OFFICE HOME AND
STUDENT.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2010-outlook/outlook-2010-requests-product-code-each-time-i/d01135a7-75b4-4f86-af22-c64a4ea69d5d

Now grovel.

[Foster]

On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:37:38 -0600, chrisv wrote:

> Lloyd wrote:
>
>>And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
>>except for the geeks.
>

> *plonk* 3 days

Translation: turd (chrisv) has been ROPE-A-Doped by Lloyd.

[Foster]

On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 22:28:28 +0000, Gordon wrote:

> On 05/01/2012 21:02, Clogwog wrote:
>
>>
>> Poor Gortard, he's not the brightest knife in the drawer, he's more like
>> a bend spoon, what a maroon! lol
>
> Oh sure. And here's another post where a MICROSOFT ENGINEER posts a
> method of UNINSTALLING THE TRIAL VERSIONS INCLUDED IN OFFICE HOME AND
> STUDENT.

What kind of an idiot are you Gordon?
You knowingly installed a trial version.

It's your own fault for not reading the dialog boxes.

Now go grovel in some alter boy's arse.

[chrisv]

Lloyd wrote:

>And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
>except for the geeks.

*plonk* 3 days

[Lloyd]

In article <7h9cg7l4kp0vrujne...@4ax.com>,

I'll be counting them. Go get some real ammo when you come back.

[DFS]

Gortard,

Office Home/Student installs a Trial version of Outlook only if you tell
it to. And it tells you it's a Trial version.

So when you claim MS is being underhanded... you're just being you -
wrong from sunup to sundown.

[GreyCloud]

Man, if he doesn't come off as a some old school teacher. :-))


--
It is difficult to please everybody, but it is a piece of cake to piss
off everybody.

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that GreyCloud spake thusly:

> On 1/5/2012 3:40 PM, Lloyd wrote:
>> In article<7h9cg7l4kp0vrujne...@4ax.com>, chrisv
>> <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> Lloyd wrote:
>>>
>>>> And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no
>>>> show except for the geeks.
>>>
>>> *plonk* 3 days
>>
>> I'll be counting them. Go get some real ammo when you come back.
>
> Man, if he doesn't come off as a some old school teacher. :-))

Do old school teachers have the IQ of a cabbage and the morals of a
snake?

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2012-01-05, Lloyd <lloydp...@me.com> wrote:

It doesn't really matter.

Despite your post factum marketshare based arguments, the fact remains
that Linux is every bit as useful as Windows and easier to deal with. This
little feature is a nice case in point. It's probably still not as robust
and complete as what you get with Linux.

[JEDIDIAH]

You are truely legends in your own mind.

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that "Clogwog" spake thusly:

>
> the brightest knife in the drawer

You're not exactly the sharpest bulb at the picnic yourself, dipstick.

[GreyCloud]

On 1/5/2012 5:54 PM, Homer wrote:
> Verily I say unto thee that GreyCloud spake thusly:
>> On 1/5/2012 3:40 PM, Lloyd wrote:
>>> In article<7h9cg7l4kp0vrujne...@4ax.com>, chrisv
>>> <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Lloyd wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no
>>>>> show except for the geeks.
>>>>
>>>> *plonk* 3 days
>>>
>>> I'll be counting them. Go get some real ammo when you come back.
>>
>> Man, if he doesn't come off as a some old school teacher. :-))
>
> Do old school teachers have the IQ of a cabbage and the morals of a
> snake?
>

They are definitely cranky types.

[Lloyd]

In article <slrnjgclm...@nomad.mishnet>,

That's the part you guys just don't get. It isn't the engineering, the
quality of the OS or all those other really great technical reasons that
are responsible for making a product successful in the marketplace.

Yes you do need that to start with, and Linux has that. But you also
need effective marketing and follow through from a commercial producer
to make it a commercial success.

Unfortunately, Linux on the desktop doesn't have that business end at
all. It is there with all the other great tech things that never made
it to commercial success.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> In article <je57ov$4b2$2...@dont-email.me>,
> Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@xzoozy.com> wrote:
>
>> Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>> > And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
>> > except for the geeks.
>>
>> Indeed. Microsoft has the market, the infrastructure, and the trial
>> freebies locked up tight. The average person has little chance of even
>> knowing about Linux, let alone finding a Linux system at Office Depot.
>>
>> And yet their share slowly, ever so slowly, declines, while Linux's
>> share slowly, ever so slowly, increases..
>
> So do you think you and I will be alive when Linux on the desktop is at
> say, 25%?? :)
>
> Personally at the rate its going, I'm pretty sure I won't be.

I don't really care, Lloyd.

My life is pretty heavily supported by Linux, at home, at work (even
though my job is primarily writing code that primarily runs on
Windoze), and on the devices I use. I discovered Linux at the time
I was starting to use Windows 2000, and although Win 2000 had merit (as
well as the well-publicized 64,000 bugs), Linux was a breath of fresh
air to me, and it redoubled the pleasure of computing for me.

And I'm only one of millions for which that is true.

GNU/Linux, in one form or another, is almost *everywhere*. It has
proven itself to be a major game-changer. So many devices I buy now
come with copies of the GPL license. My little Palm Pixi has a PDF file
loaded on it, listing the licenses for each piece of open-source and
Free software it uses.

So fear of treading on Microsoft's turf and a certain network-effect
inertia keeps Linux out of the "desktop" market, that small but most
salient market for most consumers? That is regrettable, but doesn't
reflect badly on GNU/Linux.

--
What I SAID was that Win 7 has drastically better power management and
it might be an idea to retain it if battery power is an issue when
travelling and all you want is email/web. You see, dimwit who claimed he
couldnt find a pc without Windows or one with Linux, its called CHOICE
and FLEXIBILITY.
-- "Hadron" <id39kug...@news.eternal-september.org>

[Chris Ahlstrom]

On the desktop only, Lloyd. It is just one of the businesses for which
there is a certain reluctance to invest in a market to which Microsoft
has laid claim. Microsoft has been known as the "800-pound gorilla" for
25 years at least.

--
Have you seen how Sonny's burning,
Like some bright erotic star,
He lights up the proceedings,
And raises the temperature.
-- The Birthday Party, "Sonny's Burning"

[Chris Ahlstrom]

JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2012-01-05, Foster <frankf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:37:38 -0600, chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> Lloyd wrote:
>>>
>>>>And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
>>>>except for the geeks.
>>>
>>> *plonk* 3 days
>>
>> Translation: turd (chrisv) has been ROPE-A-Doped by Lloyd.
>
> You are truely legends in your own mind.

It's pretty funny, watching Flounder use the language of an old
carnival con man.

How utterly fitting.

--
"Somehow you've managed to convince yourself that it's wrong, immoral
or illegal for a company to make a profit."
-- Larry "Message ID" Qualig

[William Poaster]

Well some governments, agencies & cities are switching (have switched) &
choosing Linux on the desktop:

In 2002 the French Gendarmerie Nationale "adopted a strictly
open-standards IT policy in order to improve inter-organisation
communications."
First they changed to OpenOffice, "and, after finding it a surprisingly
competent replacement for its paid counterpart, started pushing for it
to be adopted within the organization instead of Microsoft Office.
After a while, the police force completely switched over to OpenOffice
for all their office needs along with adopting Thunderbird for email
and Firefox for browsing. The switch was easy and required little to no
training since the open source apps had a similar interface to the paid
ones."

[Oh, but *that* can't be right? For don't the wintrolls (DFS, Hadron
etc) say that OOo is no match for M$O?]

To continue.......
"In 2007, they decided to go one step further and switch to an open
operating system. "Moving from Microsoft XP to Vista would not have
brought us many advantages and Microsoft said it would require
training of users. Moving from XP to Ubuntu, however, proved very
easy. The two biggest differences are the icons and the games. Games
are not our priority." Currently Gendarmerie has about 5,000 PCs
running Ubuntu, with another 15,000 planned to be switched over this
year. By 2015, they hope to have the entire organization with all
90,000 computers running Ubuntu and open-source software."
http://apcmag.com/french-police-switch-from-windows-to-linux.htm

"Munich Linux Migration Project LiMux Reports Success"
Linux Journal - Jan 2nd 2012
'LiMux, a project to convert local government institutions to Linux and
open source software in Munich, has exceeded initial expectations. The
project has done slightly better than projections of 8,500 and now
boasts 9,000 Linux migrated workstations.'
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/limux-munich-linux-migration-project-reports-success

According to Linux.com, the United States Department of Defense is the
"single biggest install base for Red Hat Linux" in the world. Nor was
it an unconscious choice, as Brigadier General Nick Justice, the Deputy
Program Officer for the Army's Program Executive Office proclaims "open
source software is part of the integrated network fabric which connects
and enables our command and control system to work effectively, as
people's lives depend on it." Justice went on to state that "when we
rolled into Baghdad, we did it using open source", and that he was
indeed Red Hat's "biggest customer."

FreeSoftwareMagazine.com reveals that "the US Navy nuclear submarine
fleet is using GNU/Linux" as well.

LWN.net maintains that Spain has long been the strongest supporter and
user of Linux from a national government standpoint. Linux has spread
rapidly throughout Spain since 2002, when the government of Extremadura
actually created its own cutomized Linux distribution (called LinEx)
based on Debian, using GNOME as its "default desktop environment."
Since then, the government "gave away the product CDs at every
opportunity -- in government offices, magazines and even daily
newspapers" as part of a determined and ongoing effort to get LinEx out
to everybody." By handing out the software for free and continuing to
publicize its availability, Linux spread from Extremadura throughout
the rest of Spain and remains widely used today.

Few government users of Linux appear to be happier with their choice to
switch than the United States Federal Aviation Administration. Tthe FAA
announced in 2006 that it "had completed a migration to Red Hat
EnterpriseLinux in one third of the scheduled time and saved 15 million
dollars" in the process of doing so. Score it another big-time
government client for the Red Hat distribution of Linux.

The French Parliament opted in November 2006 to dump Windows in favor of
Ubuntu Linux. 1,154 French parliamentary workstations run Linux, with
OpenOffice.org productivity software, the Firefox Web browser and an
open-source e-mail client." Despite the training costs, Parliament
officials named cost savings and technological superiority of
open-source software for parliamentary purposes as reasons for the
switch.

The U.S. Federal Courts rely on Linux for all manner of administrative
tasks, including "case management, case tracking, finance and
accounting, probation and pretrial services." Linux has been used by
the courts since November of 2003, when PEC Solutions assisted in
orchestrating a "migration of the Federal Judiciary to a Linux-based
system."

Garden Grove, California, made the switch all the way back in
1995 (according to Linux Journal). Evidently, the city was in a cash
crunch when it opted to give Linux a try, and found that it saved so
much money that they later decided to roll out Linux across the city,
including desktop systems.

And others who changed to Linux include (but not limited to):
Cuba, Mexico, Swiss education (schools), German Universities (from
2007), The Phillipines (23,000 desktops in schools according to one
source), Indiana Schools program, Virgin America, Conoco Philips,
Amazon, Peugot, NY Stock Exchange, London Stock Exchange,
Travelocity, Toyota Car Sales, CERN, FEMI, etc, etc.

(Gleaned from various sources).

--
As they say at Microsoft - 'What do you want to reinstall today ?'.

What IS remarkable, is that a well developed ape has come
to realise that he lives on a planet, circling a sun, in a
planetary system, within a galaxy, within a universe.
- Professor Michio Kaku - Theoretical Physicist -

[chrisv]

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>

>> So do you think you and I will be alive when Linux on the desktop is at
>> say, 25%?? :)
>>
>> Personally at the rate its going, I'm pretty sure I won't be.
>
>I don't really care, Lloyd.

"Lloyd" is a piece of shit.

[chrisv]

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

>It's pretty funny, watching Flounder use the language of an old
>carnival con man.
>
>How utterly fitting.

I was successfully trolled, no question. That POS may as well been
readin from the Hadron Quark anti-choice troll-book.

[Kubuntu King]

So is a "turd".

--
ubuntu runs games twice as fast as Windoze

[Kubuntu King]

What anti choice book? I support choice. I support people being able to
choose Windows or Mac or Gnu/Linux. I choose Debian.

YOU choose Windows and a closed source news reader. You really are a
turd.

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that Lloyd spake thusly:

>
> That's the part you guys just don't get. It isn't the engineering,
> the quality of the OS or all those other really great technical
> reasons that are responsible for making a product successful in the
> marketplace.

This is the part /you/ don't get, Lloyd: the people who actually write
that software don't give a crap about marketing, and aren't motivate by
market share in the least. They don't want to be, and they have no
reason to be. It's completely irrelevant to them. They work and get paid
just like any other Joe, and write Free Software "because they can".
It's an academic goal that's completely orthogonal to some
marketing-driven quest for world domination.

Leave it to the frothing narcissists to hoard all the power and wealth,
to prop-up their otherwise vacuous and meaningless lives, the rest of us
have better things to do with our time.

> Yes you do need that to start with, and Linux has that. But you also
> need effective marketing and follow through from a commercial producer
> to make it a commercial success.

Apparently the whole "90% market adoption without any brand recognition"
thing still hasn't penetrated your thick skull, has it Lloyd?

> Unfortunately, Linux on the desktop

Fuck the "desktop".

The "desktop" is a racket that was cornered by a bunch of gangsters
called Microsoft years ago. As a Mac user, you should know that better
than anyone, Lloyd.

As an end-user, I don't particularly care about "desktop" Linux's market
share, since Free Software exists without any dependency on market share
whatsoever. The "market" is utterly irrelevant to such software, and is
therefore utterly irrelevant to me.

I don't even especially care that Windows supposedly has a "90%" share
of the "desktop" (beyond the fact that Microsoft is a profoundly
reprehensible company that should be brought to justice), since again
that is irrelevant to the Free Software I use. If I woke up tomorrow to
discover that GNU/Linux only has a 0.0001% share of the "desktop", that
wouldn't somehow magically stop me from using it, or developing for it,
or gaining access to the sources, or copying it, or distributing it to
others, or doing any of the usual activities I do on a PC.

What I care about, Lloyd, is that when I go to buy PC /hardware/ I
shouldn't be /obligated/ to pay Microsoft - a software company that has
zero to do with that hardware, the company that makes it, or me.

That's racketeering, and its a racket that steals money from my pocket.

I want that theft to stop. Now.

--
K. | "You see? You cannot kill me. There is no flesh
http://slated.org | and blood within this cloak to kill. There is
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky | only an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

kernel 2.6.31.5, up 228 days | ~ V for Vendetta.

[Lloyd]

In article <je6mci$7i9$1...@dont-email.me>,

I said that. I was referring to Linux on the desktop.

And you are right, MS is still the 800 lb gorilla in the business
desktop market, and pretty dominant in the home market too. Effective
marketing of a product made the difference.

Apple is making inroads into the desktop market these days, Linux really
isn't. Both are not the big boys, but it has less to do with tech than
it does marketing and of course, the inertia of Windows.

[chrisv]

JEDIDIAH wrote:

>>> *plonk* 3 days
>>
>> Translation: turd (chrisv) has been ROPE-A-Doped by Lloyd.
>
> You are truely legends in your own mind.

Anyone can troll. Just take the wrong side of every issue and lie
your ass off.

--
"Do you think you should be able to buy a car with no seats from the
Ford showroom?" - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark, arguing that
it is unreasonable to expect OEM's to offer PC's with no OS installed

[Big Steel]

On 1/6/2012 6:39 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 2012-01-05, Foster<frankf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 16:37:38 -0600, chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lloyd wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
>>>>> except for the geeks.
>>>>
>>>> *plonk* 3 days
>>>
>>> Translation: turd (chrisv) has been ROPE-A-Doped by Lloyd.
>>
>> You are truely legends in your own mind.
>
> It's pretty funny, watching Flounder use the language of an old
> carnival con man.
>
> How utterly fitting.
>

Fool clown is pot calling the kettle black with his BS post about cd
trey, and he posted to see a response. The lying clown was masturbating
when he made the post about a cd trey line command. :)

And then he started acting like a little bitch about it with his pop
goes the weasel posts whining for COLA help/

[Lloyd]

In article <pu4jt8-...@alpha-one.wpnetwork.org>,

Yes, I've read the stories. They are only interesting stories because
it is something different.

> In 2002 the French Gendarmerie Nationale "adopted a strictly
> open-standards IT policy in order to improve inter-organisation
> communications."
> First they changed to OpenOffice, "and, after finding it a surprisingly
> competent replacement for its paid counterpart, started pushing for it
> to be adopted within the organization instead of Microsoft Office.
> After a while, the police force completely switched over to OpenOffice
> for all their office needs along with adopting Thunderbird for email
> and Firefox for browsing. The switch was easy and required little to no
> training since the open source apps had a similar interface to the paid
> ones."
>

That should work fine if Office-type and internet apps are all that is
needed.

Yet for all of that, the desktop Linux useage is miniscule.

All of those show that the potential for Linux on the desktop is there,
just not the commercial push to make it a more popular choice. And
trying to get one of the big boys in PC mfg to take a flyer again on it
is difficult because of the failure to produce enough profits for them
when they tried to begin with.

The guys that make the decisions to bring a product to market are not
always all that technical and don't look at products from that viewpoint.

Kind of like in here. Overall you guys give the Woz credit for being
the genius behind Apple at the beginning, and he was. But you then say
that Jobs wasn't. Which isn't true at all. Jobs expertise was to see
how to take which of those wonderful tech things the Woz created and
make them a commercial success. Jobs and Woz were both geniuses, but
with different skill sets.

[Foster]

And for 20 years we have been hearing from the Linux crowd that
Linux is going to put Microsoft out of business.

It hasn't happened and is very unlikely to happen.

[Lloyd]

In article <je6m7g$7i9$9...@dont-email.me>,

You are correct, Linux is a good OS. It is all about marketing.

On the small devices, phone and tablets, for instance. Damn few that
buy actually know or care what OS is on it. So while Linux may be very
much in use, the fact that the end user most often doesn't know that,
means that they don't move up from embedded Linux to desktop because
they didn't know they were using Linux in the first place.

[Foster]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 06:34:59 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> In article <je57ov$4b2$2...@dont-email.me>,
>> Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@xzoozy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>> > And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
>>> > except for the geeks.
>>>
>>> Indeed. Microsoft has the market, the infrastructure, and the trial
>>> freebies locked up tight. The average person has little chance of even
>>> knowing about Linux, let alone finding a Linux system at Office Depot.
>>>
>>> And yet their share slowly, ever so slowly, declines, while Linux's
>>> share slowly, ever so slowly, increases..
>>
>> So do you think you and I will be alive when Linux on the desktop is at
>> say, 25%?? :)
>>
>> Personally at the rate its going, I'm pretty sure I won't be.
>
> I don't really care, Lloyd.
>
> My life is pretty heavily supported by Linux, at home, at work (even
> though my job is primarily writing code that primarily runs on
> Windoze), and on the devices I use. I discovered Linux

So who are you trying to convince, Ahlstrom?

[Foster]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:49:49 -0600, chrisv wrote:


> Anyone can troll. Just take the wrong side of every issue and lie
> your ass off.

Sounds like Linux Advocacy 101.

[Lloyd]

In article <h4ajt8-...@sky.matrix>, Homer <use...@slated.org>
wrote:

> Verily I say unto thee that Lloyd spake thusly:
> >
> > That's the part you guys just don't get. It isn't the engineering,
> > the quality of the OS or all those other really great technical
> > reasons that are responsible for making a product successful in the
> > marketplace.
>
> This is the part /you/ don't get, Lloyd: the people who actually write
> that software don't give a crap about marketing, and aren't motivate by
> market share in the least. They don't want to be, and they have no
> reason to be. It's completely irrelevant to them. They work and get paid
> just like any other Joe, and write Free Software "because they can".
> It's an academic goal that's completely orthogonal to some
> marketing-driven quest for world domination.
>

Thanks for agreeing with me. You prove my point. For all the tech in
the world that never saw the commercial light of day because there was
no one that would push it into the market.

That's why you don't let the engineer and software writers out of their
cubby holes.

Those same software writers wouldn't have those jobs that put food on
their table if it wasn't for the marketing and sales types.

> Leave it to the frothing narcissists to hoard all the power and wealth,
> to prop-up their otherwise vacuous and meaningless lives, the rest of us
> have better things to do with our time.
>

Nice pie-in-the-sky bullshit. No sales, no jobs.

> > Yes you do need that to start with, and Linux has that. But you also
> > need effective marketing and follow through from a commercial producer
> > to make it a commercial success.
>
> Apparently the whole "90% market adoption without any brand recognition"
> thing still hasn't penetrated your thick skull, has it Lloyd?
>

You've yet to show a 90% market adoption, so yep, it hasn't penetrated
'cause you haven't actually shown it exists.

> > Unfortunately, Linux on the desktop
>
> Fuck the "desktop".
>

Yep, that's what I'd say too if after all these years, an OS as good as
Linux couldn't get enough market penetration to matter.

> The "desktop" is a racket that was cornered by a bunch of gangsters
> called Microsoft years ago. As a Mac user, you should know that better
> than anyone, Lloyd.
>

Sour grapes.

If that were true, then Linux as a server OS couldn't have done what it
has done.

> As an end-user, I don't particularly care about "desktop" Linux's market
> share, since Free Software exists without any dependency on market share
> whatsoever. The "market" is utterly irrelevant to such software, and is
> therefore utterly irrelevant to me.
>
> I don't even especially care that Windows supposedly has a "90%" share
> of the "desktop" (beyond the fact that Microsoft is a profoundly
> reprehensible company that should be brought to justice), since again
> that is irrelevant to the Free Software I use. If I woke up tomorrow to
> discover that GNU/Linux only has a 0.0001% share of the "desktop", that
> wouldn't somehow magically stop me from using it, or developing for it,
> or gaining access to the sources, or copying it, or distributing it to
> others, or doing any of the usual activities I do on a PC.
>
> What I care about, Lloyd, is that when I go to buy PC /hardware/ I
> shouldn't be /obligated/ to pay Microsoft - a software company that has
> zero to do with that hardware, the company that makes it, or me.
>
> That's racketeering, and its a racket that steals money from my pocket.
>
> I want that theft to stop. Now.

You aren't obligated to do that at all. There are some small shops that
will provide you with PCs with no OS now. It just won't be one of the
big boys in the business. But since you don't care about the big boys
for the OS, why do you care about it for the hardware?

[Gordon]

On 06/01/2012 13:45, Lloyd wrote:
>
> Effective marketing of a product made the difference.
>
>

You call what they did "marketing"? If only....

[chrisv]

Is "Lloyd" brushing-off what M$ has done as "effective marketing"?

What a lying piece of shit! What a fscking *asshole*.

Watch this space for "Lloyd" or one of his idiot pals like 'hh"
demanding that we prove that Microshaft is a corrupt and immoral
organization that used a multitude of unfair tactics to get where they
are today.

As if the truth isn't out there, for those who seek it. *We* need to
repeat ourselves for the umpteenth time, on demand of a filthy troll.

[Lloyd]

In article <o82eg7p4h7fapvggd...@4ax.com>,

chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Gordon wrote:
>
> >On 06/01/2012 13:45, Lloyd wrote:
> >>
> >> Effective marketing of a product made the difference.
> >
> >You call what they did "marketing"? If only....
>
> Is "Lloyd" brushing-off what M$ has done as "effective marketing"?
>
> What a lying piece of shit! What a fscking *asshole*.
>

So I'm not in your KF? LOL! I knew you couldn't resist.

> Watch this space for "Lloyd" or one of his idiot pals like 'hh"
> demanding that we prove that Microshaft is a corrupt and immoral
> organization that used a multitude of unfair tactics to get where they
> are today.
>

Nice touchy feely response, has little to do with business though. Are
you a hippy?

> As if the truth isn't out there, for those who seek it. *We* need to
> repeat ourselves for the umpteenth time, on demand of a filthy troll.

The 'truth' as you see it, of course. Nothing to do with the actual
commercial market or business in general. Do you even have a job? Do
you draw an actual paycheck?

And again, major snippage so no one can see what you are blabbering
about.

[Foster]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 08:55:02 -0600, Lloyd wrote:

> In article <o82eg7p4h7fapvggd...@4ax.com>,
> chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Gordon wrote:
>>
>>>On 06/01/2012 13:45, Lloyd wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Effective marketing of a product made the difference.
>>>
>>>You call what they did "marketing"? If only....
>>
>> Is "Lloyd" brushing-off what M$ has done as "effective marketing"?
>>
>> What a lying piece of shit! What a fscking *asshole*.
>>
>
> So I'm not in your KF? LOL! I knew you couldn't resist.

It didn't even last 12 hours let alone the 3 or 4 days he claimed to
have KF you for.

Turd strikes again!

[Clogwog]

"Homer" <use...@slated.org> schreef in bericht
news:io5it8-...@sky.matrix...

> Verily I say unto thee that "Clogwog" spake thusly:
>>
>> the brightest knife in the drawer
>
> You're not exactly the sharpest bulb at the picnic yourself, dipstick.
>

And since you claim that "Microsoft talking about patents is comparable to
what Al Qaeda did on 9/11", I often wonder who is the biggest complete and
utter dumbfuck cunt ever on usenet.
All because you have quite some competition in that regard, having filth
like "turd" chrisv, Willy Boaster or Peter Kohlmann as competing scum.

[Kubuntu King]

Yes. He's a windows support monkey. He's admitted it.

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that Gordon spake thusly:

> On 06/01/2012 13:45, Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> Effective marketing of a product made the difference.
>
> You call what they did "marketing"? If only....

This is what Lloyd thinks is "effective marketing":

[quote]
Gateway also faulted another provision of the new licensing agreement,
which requires PC makers to pay a Windows royalty on every PC shipped,
even if it didn't include Windows.
[/quote]

http://news.cnet.com/Gateway-exec-Microsoft-too-powerful/2100-1016_3-868413.html

And this:

[quote]
MS on Trial

One of the claims by Caldera that Microsoft wanted dismissed
concerned intentional incompatibilities between Windows and DR-DOS.
David Cole and Phil Barrett exchanged emails on 30 September 1991: "
"It's pretty clear we need to make sure Windows 3.1 only runs on top of
MS DOS or an OEM version of it," and "The approach we will take is to
detect dr 6 and refuse to load. The error message should be something
like 'Invalid device driver interface.'"

Microsoft had several methods of detecting and sabotaging the use of
DR-DOS with Windows

...

Allchin replied: "You should make sure it has problems in the future.
:-)", which is clear enough, and it should be noted that the pair were
both high level Microsoft executives.
[/quote]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/11/05/how_ms_played_the_incompatibility/

And this:

[quote]
In the aftermath of such devastation, Microsoft sent out the following
tweet early Saturday morning: "How can you #SupportJapan --
http://binged.it/fEh7iT? For every retweet, Bing will give $1 to Japan
quake victims... up to $100K". (Source: ottawacitizen.com)

Thousands did honor Microsoft's request to retweet the original message.
However, many did so in a manner not reflective of the company's
intentions, adding their disapproval of Microsoft's idea.

"Why doesn't Bing just give $100K to #supportjapan? Why turn a tragedy
into a promotional opportunity? That isn't even a large sum for relief,"
replied one individual.

Others were less pensive, and more graphic, in their opinions of
Microsoft's "relief effort". Many made their beliefs known in the form
of explicative-laden responses.

Comedian Michael Ian Black reposted the original message with the
following precursor: "Hey Bing! Stop using a tragedy as an [expletive]
marketing opportunity." Worth noting: Black has more than a million
Twitter followers.
[/quote]

http://www.infopackets.com/news/business/microsoft/2011/20110314_microsoft_offends_with_japan_earthquake_relief_tweet.htm

And this:

[quote]
I'd be glad to help tilt lotus into the death spiral. I could do it
friday afternoon but not saturday.
[/quote]

~ Brad Silverberg, Microsoft

http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20070127202224445

And this:

[quote]
Referring to Apple's QuickTime software, Avadis Trevanian says Microsoft
told Apple to "knife the baby" if it wanted to survive in the multimedia
software market.
[/quote]

http://www.silicon.com/technology/hardware/1998/11/23/microsofts-decade-in-court-a-brief-history-11006817/

And this:

[quote]
According to McGeady, Microsoft vice president of development Paul
Maritz told the chip giant he intended to "cut off [the] air supply" of
Netscape Communications, whose Navigator browser was posing a serious
threat to Microsoft's market dominance.
[/quote]

http://news.cnet.com/Microsoft,-Intel-wage-war-of-words/2100-1023_3-217848.html

And this:

[quote]
At that point, Mr. Ballmer picked up a chair and threw it across the
room hitting a table in his office. Mr. Ballmer then said: "Fucking Eric
Schmidt is a fucking pussy. I'm going to fucking bury that guy, I have
done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to fucking kill
Google."
[/quote]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/05/chair_chucking/

And this:

[quote]
In July 1994, the Department filed a civil complaint under the Sherman
Act, 15 U.S.C. §§ 1 and 2 (1988), charging Microsoft with unlawfully
maintaining a monopoly of operating systems for IBM-compatible PCs and
unreasonably restraining trade of the same through certain
anticompetitive marketing practices.

The key anticompetitive practice against which the complaint is aimed is
Microsoft's use of contract terms requiring original equipment
manufacturers ("OEMs") to pay Microsoft a royalty for each computer the
OEM sells containing a particular microprocessor (in this case, an x86
class microprocessor), whether or not the OEM has included a Microsoft
operating system with that computer. The practical effect of such "per
processor licenses," it is alleged, is to deter OEMs from using
competing operating systems during the life of their contracts with
Microsoft.
[/quote]

http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f0200/0233.htm#N_1_

And this:

[quote]
In Nigeria, Microsoft proposed paying $400,000 last year under a
joint-marketing agreement to a government contractor it was trying to
persuade to replace Linux with Windows on thousands of school laptops.
The contractor’s former chief executive describes the proposal as an
incentive to make the switch — an interpretation Microsoft denies. In
Namibia and Nigeria, where it has sought government contracts, the
company hired family members of government officials. Microsoft says
they were qualified.
[/quote]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122332198757908625.html

And this:

[quote]
Intel has already sabotaged the OLPC market by contracting hundreds of
thousands Classmate units in countries as Nigeria, Libya and Pakistan -
the original markets for Negroponte's laptops. Moreover, Bill Gates
announced that Microsoft would give a discounted $3 package, including
Windows, Microsoft XP student edition and other educational software,
which also was meant to sabotage Negroponte's XO laptop.
[/quote]

http://news.softpedia.com/news/One-Laptop-Per-Child-Sabotaged-by-Microsoft-and-Intel-71941.shtml

Just a reminder that the OLPC project is a /charity/, which Microsoft
and Intel both sabotaged, at a financial /loss/ to themselves, for no
better reason than to suppress "Linux mindshare".

And this:

[quote]
Microsoft Corp. admitted Wednesday that an employee at its Swedish
subsidiary offered monetary compensation to partners for voting in favor
of the Office Open XML document format's approval as an ISO standard.
[/quote]

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9033701/Microsoft_admits_Swedish_employee_promised_incentives_for_Open_XML_support

And this:

[quote]
Microsoft's new lobbying program still crashes once in a while. It
recently pushed to cut a funding increase for antitrust enforcement, but
the effort failed spectacularly. It was denounced on Capitol Hill as
retaliation for the pending federal lawsuit, an act bordering on
"obstruction," as one Republican House official put it.
[/quote]

http://www.zdnet.com/news/ms-asks-investors-to-petition-congress/103815

And this:

[quote]
A deposition by Stefanie Reichel, then a Microsoft OEM account manager
in Germany, is a key smoking pistol. She said that pressure had been put
on her to destroy hundreds of emails that could have proved to be
incriminating in the case brought by the DoJ, as well as by Caldera and
others. Reichel had been an "uncooperative witness," and had hired a
prominent LA lawyer to help her to resist attempts by the DoJ to gain
co-operation. It was suspected that Microsoft was paying her legal bill.
Juergen Huels, then in charge of Microsoft's German OEM accounts, was
accused of telling Reichel to delete any "questionable" emails that
could "be problematic" in an investigation. Huels physically removed the
hard disks lest they be examined forensically, and they were evidently
dumped in "graveyards in East Germany that no-one knows about".
[/quote]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/02/01/unsealed_caldera_files_detail_ms/

And this:

[quote]
Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by
a source present at a session in which Gates was questioned on his
deposition.[2] He argued over the definitions of words such as
"compete", "concerned", "ask", and "we".[3] BusinessWeek reported,
"Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory answers
and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the presiding judge
had to chuckle. Worse, many of the technology chief's denials and pleas
of ignorance have been directly refuted by prosecutors with snippets of
E-mail Gates both sent and received."
[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

And this:

[quote]
A "grass roots" campaign to support Microsoft in the antitrust suit
brought by the government instead appears to be a carefully orchestrated
effort by a number of pro-Microsoft groups.

Apparently the dead are fed up with the government's antitrust case
against Microsoft Corp. According to a report in the Los Angeles Times
Thursday morning, letters purportedly written by at least two dead
people have made their way onto the desk of Utah Attorney General Mark
Shurtleff. The letters asked Shurtleff to go easy on the company.
[/quote]

http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/871631

And this:

http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/index.html

And this:

[quote]
A few days ago we were all surprised by a document leaked at CableGate,
exchanged between the US embassy in Brazil and the American Government
in 2007. According to this cable, Microsoft made serious accusations
against the Brazilian government, and despite of the attempt to play the
’silly Microsoft’ at the meeting, they indirectly asked for an
intervention of the American Government to halt the spread of ODF in
Brazil, to win the Brazilian support for the approval of OpenXML in ISO,
to halt the partnership between the Brazilian technical committee and
other committees discussing the international standard at that time, to
reduce the influence of Brazil in the international debate on OpenXML,
and also to accuse the Brazilian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the
Brazilian Presidency’s Civil House of being anti-Americans. Worse than
that, they also suggested that ODF is an anti-American standard!
[/quote]

http://homembit.com/2011/09/microsofts-attack-on-brazilian-national-sovereignty-wikileaks-microsoft-odf-and-openxml.html

And this:

[quote]
A US diplomatic Cabal classified as “C O N F I D E N T I A L” and sent
from the American embassy in Tunis published on Wikileaks this week,
disclose some details of the agreement between Microsoft and ousted
regime of Zain Al Abdin Bin Ali which was signed in July 2006, Microsoft
did not disclose the full details of the agrement but the cable provides
from information. In a meeting with US embassy staff Microsoft Tunisia
Director General Salwa Smaoui provided an overview of the main points in
the agreement.

...

On Microsoft involvement in corruption, the cables stats the
negotiations for the deal took 5 years. Smaoui stated that the goverment
of Tunisia “wanted a “tailor-made” agreement, rather than a prepackaged
program that would be “imposed” on Tunisia.”

Microsoft has also agreed to provide training to handicapped Tunisians
to enable them to seek employment in the IT sector by telecommuting. The
cable notes that President Ben Ali’s wife Leila Ben Ali runs a charity
for handicapped Tunisians. it comments “Even as the goal of expanding
employment opportunities for handicapped Tunisians is worthy, the
program’s affiliation with Leila Ben Ali’s charity is indicative of the
backroom maneuvering sometimes required to finalize a deal. “

Leila Bin Ali and her husband the ex president of Tunisia was found
guilty of theft’ in January by a post revolution Tunisian court.
[/quote]

http://arabcrunch.com/2011/09/wikileaks-microsoft-accused-in-helping-bin-ali-monitor-tunisians-corruption-stifling-open-source.html

And this:

[quote]
We do hate to rain on a high-profile corporate love-fest, but we have to
point out that in addition to the much trumpeted $100 million Billg has
donated to India's fight against HIV, he's funding the Microsoft jihad
against Linux to the far more impressive tune of $421 million. That
means that Linux is more than four times worse than AIDS to Billg and
his happy Redmond family. God forbid any of them should learn the bitter
truth the hard way and start talking sense.
[/quote]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/11/13/gates_gives_100m_to_fight/

And this:

[quote]
The recommendations were made after Becta's review found that
Microsoft's licensing arrangements in the education sector pose
significant potential for institutions to find themselves locked in to
Microsoft's subscription licensing agreements... and very significant
complexity... that has resulted in widespread use of inappropriate
licensing strategies.

According to the review, over 70% of institutions surveyed did not
realize the level of buy-out costs before entering into commercial
subscription agreements, while 55% of respondents said the buy-out
payment was unaffordable or only affordable with difficulty.

For a typical secondary school the cost of buy-out for desktop products
alone would be the equivalent of a new teacher's annual salary, the
report stated.
[/quote]

http://www.cbronline.com/news/uk_schools_at_risk_of_microsoft_lock_in_says_government_report

And this:

[quote]
Red Hat is a leader of an appeal by 18 technology companies of a Swiss
government agency’s award of a no-bid contract to Microsoft. The
challenge raises important issues of openness in government and of a
level playing field for open source and other competitors of Microsoft.
Red Hat is seeking a public bidding process that allows for
consideration of the technical and commercial advantages of open source
software products.

The three-year contract, worth 14 million Swiss Francs per year, was
awarded by the Swiss Federal Bureau for Building and Logistics (BBL) to
Microsoft for standardized workstations, including applications,
maintenance, and support. There was no public bidding process. The Swiss
agency justified this no-bid procedure on the ground that there was no
sufficient alternative to the Microsoft products.

Au contraire. Whatever one’s opinion as to Microsoft’s products, it is
hard to ignore the existence of numerous competitive alternatives to
them. Indeed, Kanton Solothurn, the City of Zurich, the Federal Agency
for Computer Sciences and and Telecommunictions (BIT), the Federal
Institute for Intellectual Property (IGE), and other Swiss agencies are
already using some of those alternatives provided by Red Hat.
[/quote]

http://www.redhat.com/about/news/blog/red-hat-challenges-microsoft-lock-in-and-seeks-open-competition-in-switzerland

And this:

[quote]
Microsoft has now officially responded to an Illinois family's lawsuit
in which a fire was allegedly caused by a faulty Xbox console in
December of 2004. The fire resulted in the death of an infant, Wade
Kline. According to the lawsuit, the fire was caused by an overheating
power supply, which became so hot as to start the deadly fire.

Microsoft, in response, has stated that the fire was wholly the
responsibility of the family, and that it was the result of "misuse or
abuse" of the console in question. Furthermore, Microsoft claims that
the fire was the result of an "obvious" condition of which the family
was aware.

Considering Microsoft did not recall power cords until February of 2005
(on account of fire concerns) we're not sure to what obvious condition
Microsoft is referring. Microsoft is asking that the case be dismissed
and that the Kline family pay the company's legal fees.
[/quote]

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/03/ms-blames-xbox-abuse-for-deadly-fire/

[quote]
Microsoft, in court papers filed last Friday, says, "Losses and damages,
if any, resulted from misuse or abuse of the Xbox console at issue."
[/quote]

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/02/microsoft-says-xbox-abuse-caused-baby-killing-fire/

"Losses and damages, if any"

*"If any"?*

Apparently Microsoft doesn't consider that a child horrifically burned
alive by their faulty equipment is any sort of "loss".

But these are the evil bastards whose market dominance Lloyd claims is
only attributable to "effective marketing", and has nothing whatsoever
to do with their gangster attitude and methods. Honest.

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2012-01-06, Lloyd <lloydp...@me.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnjgclm...@nomad.mishnet>,
> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>
>> On 2012-01-05, Lloyd <lloydp...@me.com> wrote:

>> > In article <je57ov$4b2$2...@dont-email.me>,
>> > Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@xzoozy.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>> >>
>> >> > And yet for all that great info, Linux on the desktop is just a no show
>> >> > except for the geeks.
>> >>
>> >> Indeed. Microsoft has the market, the infrastructure, and the trial
>> >> freebies locked up tight. The average person has little chance of even
>> >> knowing about Linux, let alone finding a Linux system at Office Depot.
>> >>
>> >> And yet their share slowly, ever so slowly, declines, while Linux's
>> >> share slowly, ever so slowly, increases..
>> >
>> > So do you think you and I will be alive when Linux on the desktop is at
>> > say, 25%?? :)
>>

>> It doesn't really matter.
>>
>> Despite your post factum marketshare based arguments, the fact remains
>> that Linux is every bit as useful as Windows and easier to deal with. This
>> little feature is a nice case in point. It's probably still not as robust
>> and complete as what you get with Linux.
>

> That's the part you guys just don't get. It isn't the engineering, the
> quality of the OS or all those other really great technical reasons that
> are responsible for making a product successful in the marketplace.

I want something useful, "not succesful".

I am the person buying, not the person selling.

You seem to be confused about your role here.

--
Truth is irrelevant as long as the predictions are good. |||
/ | \

[Lloyd]

In article <slrnjgeh9...@nomad.mishnet>,

If it is very useful it can be successful if properly marketed. Linux
to the desktop has the former but is completely lacking the latter.

And if it isn't successful, then maybe it wasn't all that useful to
enough people.

> I am the person buying, not the person selling.
>

Wonderful, then go buy what you want/need.

> You seem to be confused about your role here.

?? Since you don't define my 'role' here, it seems you might be the one
confused.

[chrisv]

Homer wrote:

>> Lloyd wrote:
>>>
>>> Effective marketing of a product made the difference.
>

>This is what Lloyd thinks is "effective marketing":
>

> (snip facts)

>
>But these are the evil bastards whose market dominance Lloyd claims is
>only attributable to "effective marketing", and has nothing whatsoever
>to do with their gangster attitude and methods. Honest.

Did "Lloyd" respond?

I will go out on the proverbial limb (ha!) and predict that "Lloyd"
will either pretend not to have seen Homer's post, or he will reject
it as any kind of proof of unfair behavior on Micro$oft's part.

I predict he will continue to maintain that the desktop OS market is
"free and fair".

--
"I find it amazing that you keep insisting (the GPL) is so easy and
yet we see you embroiled in nitpicking over meaning time and time
again. You're either very thick skinned or in denial." - "Hadron",
claiming that the existence anti-GPL trolls (like himself) proves that
the GPL is difficult to understand

[JEDIDIAH]

So?

>
> And if it isn't successful, then maybe it wasn't all that useful to
> enough people.

You just contradicted yourself there.

[deletia]

[DFS]

On 1/6/2012 4:10 PM, chrisv wrote:

> I predict he will continue to maintain that the desktop OS market is
> "free and fair".

Extremely so, turd:

Every OEM and retailer and person is free at any time to build hardware
and install/sell whatever OSes are available for sale (subject to
whatever legal contracts they may have previously entered into).

There are many desktop operating systems available for sale or free
download:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_operating_systems

Every person is free at any time to write and sell their own OS.


So what more do you shrieking, whining babies want?

[Lloyd]

In article <slrnjgep5...@nomad.mishnet>,

So that is what makes it of no real concern to anyone but guys that hang
here...

> >
> > And if it isn't successful, then maybe it wasn't all that useful to
> > enough people.
>
> You just contradicted yourself there.
>
> [deletia]

Not at all.

[Lloyd]

They want someone else to pony up the money it takes to bring the
product to market, provide all the labor to build it and buy the parts
to make it up.

Too damned lazy or committed to want to do it themselves. Talk about
'entitlement thinking'!!

[chrisv]

JEDIDIAH wrote:

> Lying Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> If it is very useful it can be successful if properly marketed. Linux
>> to the desktop has the former but is completely lacking the latter.
>
> So?

Lloyd is lying, actually. His is a warped, evil definition of
"successful", and is based on some arbitrary market-share and/or
ability to generate large amounts of corporate profit.

The *real* definition of a "successful" product is one where there is
sufficient demand to justify continued development, production, and
distribution. In other words, it is viable in the market. Said yet
another way, it is profitable.

Note that the "profit" from Free software tends to be on the
efficiency and cost-savings side of the equation.

>> And if it isn't successful,

But desktop Linux is successful, "Lloyd", you filthy fsck. It doesn't
have to muscle its competitors out of the market to be successful.

>> then maybe it wasn't all that useful to enough people.

It unquestionably is useful to "enough people". See above. If it was
not useful to "enough people", it would fade-away, like anything else
that is not worth the effort or expense.

> You just contradicted yourself there.

Liars like Lloyd are always stepping in their own shit.

[Lloyd]

In article <5kqeg7lv65eh5ouj6...@4ax.com>,

chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
> > Lying Lloyd wrote:
> >>
> >> If it is very useful it can be successful if properly marketed. Linux
> >> to the desktop has the former but is completely lacking the latter.
> >
> > So?
>
> Lloyd is lying, actually. His is a warped, evil definition of
> "successful", and is based on some arbitrary market-share and/or
> ability to generate large amounts of corporate profit.
>

market share and profits are business terms, totally missing or
understood by you.

Of course, since you don't actually make any kind of living with Linux,
it does at least give you a toy to play with.

> The *real* definition of a "successful" product is one where there is
> sufficient demand to justify continued development, production, and
> distribution. In other words, it is viable in the market. Said yet
> another way, it is profitable.
>

Nope. No profit, no market share, no business successful product. Just
a hobby. Note there is nothing wrong with a hobby, I have a few myself.

> Note that the "profit" from Free software tends to be on the
> efficiency and cost-savings side of the equation.
>

So the company you work for that does Windows software isn't interested
in efficiency and cost-savings? Utter crapola

> >> And if it isn't successful,
>
> But desktop Linux is successful, "Lloyd", you filthy fsck. It doesn't
> have to muscle its competitors out of the market to be successful.
>

As a hobby Linux on the desktop is fine. As a business tool, dud...

> >> then maybe it wasn't all that useful to enough people.
>
> It unquestionably is useful to "enough people". See above. If it was
> not useful to "enough people", it would fade-away, like anything else
> that is not worth the effort or expense.
>

Just you hobbyists. Most of you don't make any of your living off of
Linux on the desktop.

> > You just contradicted yourself there.
>
> Liars like Lloyd are always stepping in their own shit.

Of course, I didn't contradict myself. But you being a Windows
developer have no clue about things like that.

[Foster]

Linux advocates and the Linux community tend to attract leeches and
parasites.

They don't like the idea of having to "work".

Just look at Roy Schestowitz who bills his employer for a full work
week only he works a small fraction of that by his own admission.

[William Poaster]

Coupled with that is this:
(From 1997) - PC makers 'threatened by Microsoft'

"The computer manufacturer Compaq has given American government
investigators documents that allegedly show that Microsoft threatened
to withhold its Windows 95 operating system from them if they did not
include its Internet software on their computers.

The documents would appear to support the US Justice Department's
complaint that Microsoft was violating an agreement intended to prevent
it having a monopoly control."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/14653.stm

Along with:
Microsoft gets green light to punish OS-less PC vendors" (2004)
"Microsoft has been allowed to withhold rewards to OEMs who ship a PC
without an operating system installed. Microsoft argues that this is a
necessary sanction to discourage piracy. But equally, it's a
disincentive for corporate purchasers who want to ghost an image of
Linux onto a pre-specced PC."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/20/microsoft_gets_green_light/

Yeah, "effective marketing". More like "Protection Racketeering" at
it's best. Capone would have been proud.

--
XPN :: http://xpn.altervista.org

What IS remarkable, is that a well developed ape has come
to realise that he lives on a planet, circling a sun, in a
planetary system, within a galaxy, within a universe.
- Professor Michio Kaku - Theoretical Physicist -

[William Poaster]

Here is a facsimile from chrisv who, on 6/1/2012 14:51, wrote:

> Gordon wrote:
>
>>On 06/01/2012 13:45, Lloyd wrote:
>>>
>>> Effective marketing of a product made the difference.
>>
>>You call what they did "marketing"? If only....
>
> Is "Lloyd" brushing-off what M$ has done as "effective marketing"?

Maybe he thinks threatening OEMs *is* "effective marketing".

> What a lying piece of shit! What a fscking *asshole*.
>
> Watch this space for "Lloyd" or one of his idiot pals like 'hh"
> demanding that we prove that Microshaft is a corrupt and immoral
> organization that used a multitude of unfair tactics to get where they
> are today.

WTF does the toerag think M$ were hauled into court for, coffee &
biscuits?

> As if the truth isn't out there, for those who seek it. *We* need to
> repeat ourselves for the umpteenth time, on demand of a filthy troll.

--
Linux: Your Brain - Windows: Your brain on drugs.

[DFS]

That's our cola "advocate" cabal! A big pack of welfare babies.

They talk a big line on cola about how great Linux is, but in real life
they resolutely refuse to take ANY risks on it. They literally expect
and beg Dell and HP and other OEMs to risk big bucks installing,
testing, marketing and supporting Linux, but they won't take such risks
themselves.

They're too afraid to start a Linux OEM because - deep down - they KNOW
they will get their asses handed to them by the cruel marketplace which
demands Windows. In short order, the "advocate" will be broke, and all
the money borrowed from friends and family will go up in smoke... POOF!

[Lloyd]

To be fair, starting your own company is very daunting. Takes balls to
put everything you own and all you can borrow or beg on the line. Not
everyone has the moxie that takes. Or the willingness to understand
that it takes about 2 years to see a return all the while working your
ass off!

I certainly didn't. I had some ideas at one time for a business, I just
couldn't commit what it took to bring it to market.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

To tell you the truth, one might wonder why *no* other OS (UNIX, Linux,
BeOS, GeOS, GEM, DR-DOS) was able to make any headway in the
commodity PC market. (A market Apple is *not* in).

Many have tried, all have failed. DFS's claimed that nobody tried is
a lie. However, many fewer have bothered to try, knowing what they were
up against... a market dominated by the 800-pound gorilla called
Microsoft.

The only outfits selling Linux on PCs are small outfits, serving a niche
market that Microsoft is content to allow to exist.

--
Ubuntu is garbage. A fixed date release is ASKING for trouble. And yet
again they have delivered a half arsed steaming pile of fanboi hacked
stop gap garbage with more spinning cubes and purple blotches where they
ripped the bandages off the last release I guess.
-- "Hadron" <sa4bb7-...@news.eternal-september.org>

[Homer]

Verily I say unto thee that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:

That's a very important point, and one that no corporate groupie has
ever managed to address. All their "market share" and "profits" talk
has never once explained why anyone outside the companies in question
should give a damn. It makes even less sense to compare such things to
Free Software, which is generally never developed for the purpose of
achieving either "market share" or "profit", but to which these goals
are purely a secondary consequence (i.e. tools of the trade).

It's like demanding that a particular cog in an engine that's used in
nearly every car in the world must become a household name, in order for
that cog to become "successful", despite the fact that it's already part
of nearly every car in the world, and therefore already as "successful"
as it's possible for it to be. Meanwhile nobody really gives a damn what
the part designation of that cog is, and they really have no reason to,
unless they're mechanics.

But people like Lloyd think this is important, because there's one type
of vehicle that has about 4.3% of the total market for all vehicles, and
one particular "cog" manufacturer has a ~90% share of that 4.3%, which
he reckons they achieved by making that "cog" a household name, so it's
absolutely imperative that the other manufacturer chases down this tiny
4.3% of the market by doing likewise, so they can be "successful".

And the really funny part is, the unknown "cog" in question is actually
a free gift to the vehicle manufacturing industry, is never sold, and
thus its manufacturers really don't give a damn about its market share,
much less about making it "famous".

I think Lloyd must be lost.

The alt.megalomania newsgroup is thataway --->

--
K. | "You see? You cannot kill me. There is no flesh
http://slated.org | and blood within this cloak to kill. There is
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky | only an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

kernel 2.6.31.5, up 229 days | ~ V for Vendetta.

[Lloyd]

In article <jea4o6$hkb$3...@dont-email.me>,

And that should be good enough. Linux desktop IS a niche product.
Apple was a niche product too and look how long it took them and how
much money was spent to get to the point they are today. They are still
somewhat a niche company, just a very successful one.

The problem with a broader market for the Linux desktop has absolutely
nothing to do with how good it is. It has to do with the momentum that
MS built up in that business and consumer market. Even reading here,
they give the real reasons it hasn't caught on.

For the most part it is always 'well we can do that too' with Linux
desktop. Assuming that was true for all things, that doesn't present a
compelling reason for someone to switch. Everyone know someone who
thinks they are a whiz at windows, but that isn't true for Linux at all.

Frankly for fans of Linux desktop, they should be tickled that any
commercial mfg of hardware is willing to install it, or sell a box with
no OS.

[Lloyd]

In article <hohmt8-...@sky.matrix>, Homer <use...@slated.org>
wrote:

Not al all. In my posts I am specifically talking about Linux desktop
and not embedded OS.

Linux as a server, as an embedded OS, and as an OS for a touch device
has been quite successful.

Linux as a desktop OS has been at the complete other end of that
commercial success.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Lloyd wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> In article <jea4o6$hkb$3...@dont-email.me>,
> Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@xzoozy.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > To be fair, starting your own company is very daunting. Takes balls to
>> > put everything you own and all you can borrow or beg on the line. Not
>> > everyone has the moxie that takes. Or the willingness to understand
>> > that it takes about 2 years to see a return all the while working your
>> > ass off!
>> >
>> > I certainly didn't. I had some ideas at one time for a business, I just
>> > couldn't commit what it took to bring it to market.
>>
>> To tell you the truth, one might wonder why *no* other OS (UNIX, Linux,
>> BeOS, GeOS, GEM, DR-DOS) was able to make any headway in the
>> commodity PC market. (A market Apple is *not* in).
>>
>> Many have tried, all have failed. DFS's claimed that nobody tried is
>> a lie. However, many fewer have bothered to try, knowing what they were
>> up against... a market dominated by the 800-pound gorilla called
>> Microsoft.
>>
>> The only outfits selling Linux on PCs are small outfits, serving a niche
>> market that Microsoft is content to allow to exist.
>
> And that should be good enough. Linux desktop IS a niche product.
> Apple was a niche product too and look how long it took them and how
> much money was spent to get to the point they are today. They are still
> somewhat a niche company, just a very successful one.

I can agree with that paragraph.

> The problem with a broader market for the Linux desktop has absolutely
> nothing to do with how good it is. It has to do with the momentum that
> MS built up in that business and consumer market. Even reading here,
> they give the real reasons it hasn't caught on.
>
> For the most part it is always 'well we can do that too' with Linux
> desktop. Assuming that was true for all things, that doesn't present a
> compelling reason for someone to switch. Everyone know someone who
> thinks they are a whiz at windows, but that isn't true for Linux at all.
>
> Frankly for fans of Linux desktop, they should be tickled that any
> commercial mfg of hardware is willing to install it, or sell a box with
> no OS.

Again, agreed. However, that situation is a bit abnormal, compared to
most other categories of product out there, where many companies make
very similar products that all sell reasonably well, even in the
presence of a market leader.

Here's a good question: If people want Windows compatibility so much,
then why is there only one commercial implementation of 'Windows'?

Shouldn't any commericial entity be free to write its own competing
implementation, and coexist with Microsoft's implementation?

Forget about Linux or other OS's, what about Windows clones?

We have dozens of PC clones, why no Windows clones?

--
if you are proud of (your degree) then tell everyone. Doesn't bother
me.
-- Hadron Quark, lying shamelessly

[Lloyd]

In article <jea74o$82e$1...@dont-email.me>,

IMO, because an OS is very different from a marketing perspective. More
support needs, more compatibility with others products, etc.

> Here's a good question: If people want Windows compatibility so much,
> then why is there only one commercial implementation of 'Windows'?
>

Good question!

Right now the problem would be IP issues. How would you write a
different Windows OS without violating a few of those? And we know that
MS isn't afraid of going to court to protect their IP.

In the past, I would say that not only did MS do a bang up job of
marketing, they also violated a few rules that took time to call them on.

> Shouldn't any commericial entity be free to write its own competing
> implementation, and coexist with Microsoft's implementation?
>

Not under current laws, imo.

> Forget about Linux or other OS's, what about Windows clones?
>
> We have dozens of PC clones, why no Windows clones?

A biggie would be fear of lawsuits. MS has so much money and would
pretty much just out-lawyer anyone that tried that.

[Homer]

Criminal sympathiser DFS spake thusly:

>> In article<je7pck$p9o$2...@dont-email.me>, DFS<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So what more do you shrieking, whining babies want?

How about being able to buy any PC from any retailer without also being
obligated to pay an entirely unrelated third-party money for an OS that
I don't want and will never use, for a start?

> That's our cola "advocate" cabal! A big pack of welfare babies.

Stopping a criminal racket is not "welfare", DooFuS.

You're one seriously evil bastard.

--
K. | "You see? You cannot kill me. There is no flesh
http://slated.org | and blood within this cloak to kill. There is
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on šky | only an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

kernel 2.6.31.5, up 229 days | ~ V for Vendetta.

[Lloyd]

In article <hbrmt8-...@sky.matrix>, Homer <use...@slated.org>
wrote:

> Criminal sympathiser DFS spake thusly:
> >> In article<je7pck$p9o$2...@dont-email.me>, DFS<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> So what more do you shrieking, whining babies want?
>
> How about being able to buy any PC from any retailer without also being
> obligated to pay an entirely unrelated third-party money for an OS that
> I don't want and will never use, for a start?
>

Because as a business, they all 'freely' chose not to. Why serve such a
pathetically small user base? It is all in the bottom line.

[Kubuntu King]

Homer <use...@slated.org> writes:

> Criminal sympathiser DFS spake thusly:
>>> In article<je7pck$p9o$2...@dont-email.me>, DFS<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So what more do you shrieking, whining babies want?
>
> How about being able to buy any PC from any retailer without also being
> obligated to pay an entirely unrelated third-party money for an OS that
> I don't want and will never use, for a start?

Because they know the majority dont want that and the bare PCs will
gather dust you incompetent moron.

>
>> That's our cola "advocate" cabal! A big pack of welfare babies.
>
> Stopping a criminal racket is not "welfare", DooFuS.
>
> You're one seriously evil bastard.

You're in need of some serious medication.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Homer wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Criminal sympathiser DFS spake thusly:
>>> In article<je7pck$p9o$2...@dont-email.me>, DFS<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So what more do you shrieking, whining babies want?
>
> How about being able to buy any PC from any retailer without also being
> obligated to pay an entirely unrelated third-party money for an OS that
> I don't want and will never use, for a start?
>
>> That's our cola "advocate" cabal! A big pack of welfare babies.
>
> Stopping a criminal racket is not "welfare", DooFuS.
>
> You're one seriously evil bastard.

He's the most repellent one here on a consistent basis, though all the
others will step up to the plate on occasion.

Here's a guy who claimed to know that few but him ran Linux on a laptop.
<chuckle> And we're to believe this shill?

--
What ARE you talking about? Can't do what?
You are, quite simply, insane. I run currently 4 debian machines. In the
early days learning Ubuntu I had some issues. Most I worked through. One
of which is a laptop. And few if ANY of your dorks outside of Porter run
Linux on a laptop.
-- "Hadron" <h8b2br$q72$1...@news.eternal-september.org>

[William Poaster]

Here is a facsimile from Chris Ahlstrom who, on 8/1/2012 14:10, wrote:

> Homer wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Criminal sympathiser DFS spake thusly:
>>>> In article<je7pck$p9o$2...@dont-email.me>, DFS<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So what more do you shrieking, whining babies want?
>>
>> How about being able to buy any PC from any retailer without also being
>> obligated to pay an entirely unrelated third-party money for an OS that
>> I don't want and will never use, for a start?
>>
>>> That's our cola "advocate" cabal! A big pack of welfare babies.
>>
>> Stopping a criminal racket is not "welfare", DooFuS.
>>
>> You're one seriously evil bastard.
>
> He's the most repellent one here on a consistent basis, though all the
> others will step up to the plate on occasion.
>
> Here's a guy who claimed to know that few but him ran Linux on a laptop.
> <chuckle> And we're to believe this shill?

What ARE you talking about? Can't do what?
You are, quite simply, insane. I run currently 4 debian machines. In the
early days learning Ubuntu I had some issues. Most I worked through. One
of which is a laptop. And few if ANY of your dorks outside of Porter run
Linux on a laptop.
-- "Hadron" <h8b2br$q72$1...@news.eternal-september.org>

LMAO!
I was running Kubuntu on a Thinkpad waaay before that trolling
asshole appeared.

--
As they say at Microsoft - 'What do you want to reinstall today ?'.

[Foster]

On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 14:45:18 +0000, William Poaster wrote:


> LMAO!
> I was running Kubuntu on a Thinkpad waaay before that trolling
> asshole appeared.

Yea, and you were still battling not having the Fn keys work
properly and hot having it suspend, hibernate etc correctly.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

William Poaster wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Here is a facsimile from Chris Ahlstrom who, on 8/1/2012 14:10, wrote:
>
>> Homer wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> Criminal sympathiser DFS spake thusly:
>>>>> In article<je7pck$p9o$2...@dont-email.me>, DFS<nos...@dfs.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what more do you shrieking, whining babies want?
>>>
>>> How about being able to buy any PC from any retailer without also being
>>> obligated to pay an entirely unrelated third-party money for an OS that
>>> I don't want and will never use, for a start?
>>>
>>>> That's our cola "advocate" cabal! A big pack of welfare babies.
>>>
>>> Stopping a criminal racket is not "welfare", DooFuS.
>>>
>>> You're one seriously evil bastard.
>>
>> He's the most repellent one here on a consistent basis, though all the
>> others will step up to the plate on occasion.
>>
>> Here's a guy who claimed to know that few but him ran Linux on a laptop.
>> <chuckle> And we're to believe this shill?
>
> What ARE you talking about? Can't do what?
> You are, quite simply, insane. I run currently 4 debian machines. In the
> early days learning Ubuntu I had some issues. Most I worked through. One
> of which is a laptop. And few if ANY of your dorks outside of Porter run
> Linux on a laptop.
> -- "Hadron" <h8b2br$q72$1...@news.eternal-september.org>
>
> LMAO!
> I was running Kubuntu on a Thinkpad waaay before that trolling
> asshole appeared.

I had already put Linux on my second laptop by that point. In fact, it
first ran RedHat, then Gentoo, then Debian.

"Hadron" puffs himself up far more than anyone else here, so he is
simply not believable.

Frightening! :-D

--
It frightens me that you imagine I have posted anything which is
untrue. I certainly dont support MS over LInux in most things. Do not
confuse realism in LInux's weaknesses for being an MS only fan.
-- "Hadron", http://help.lockergnome.com/linux/Vista-user-satisfaction-high--ftopict424973.html