6 months with Linux, what fun it's been!
Andrew Preater
Today I was looking on Deja for a post I made about 'user' and 'document'
modes in Opera -- I'd been given a good answer then, and my question applied
as well to Opera for Linux as it did Windows. Then I noticed the date: 17th
October, which means it must have been six months to the day that I first
installed Linux-Mandrake 8.1 (I made the last post with Agent, and installed
Linux later that day).
Well! What a fun six months it's been. Mandrake Linux is pretty swish and
easy to use, I was up and running very quickly. When I first installed
it I was very green but I already understood the Linux mantra "RTFM" so I
read the documentation though. Seemed easy enough...
I expected some problems and was not disappointed. It turned out that my
Winmodem wouldn't work under Linux, even though I had anticipated this and
already gotten appropriate drivers. I expected I would need special drivers
for my graphics card, but Mandrake picked this up fine. The first
smack-you-in-the-face feature I noticed with Linux was the sheer amount of
stuff that came with it. Almost everything I wanted was present on the
Mandrake CDs, even if I had not noticed it when I went through the
installation itself. This helped because I immediately had available
replacements for programs I'd taken for granted under Windows -- CuteFTP,
Agent, Pegasus Mail, Opera, WinZip, Proxomitron and so on. Of course, I was
happy to see that some programs I'd needed under Windows were no longer
needed _at all_, like Kaspersky Anti-virus, Tweaki for Power Users, TweakUI,
System Mechanic, Norton Utilities, Ad-Aware... ;)
I don't think I would have been able to move to Linux so smoothly and easily
without KDE and the associated apps that come along with it. KDE is simply
amazing for a new Linux user, the customisation possibilities are wonderful
and there are so many "Ooh, why doesn't Windows have that!" moments that my
first weeks with Linux were a series of oohs and aahs as I discovered new
things it could do. I jumped straight in and got busy, sorting the desktop
to look how I wanted it and finding out what I could do with the
applications in the *cough* start menu (of course, alt-f2 is faster). Much
thanks must go to the KDE team for producing such a polished, easy to use
desktop. These days when I have to use Windows NT4, I'm disappointed by how
dull and boring it looks, and how counter-intuitive some things are, for
example when dragging-and-dropping files, KDE pops up a little menu when you
release the mousebutton (by default) asking if I want to copy, move or link
the file. In Windows it seems quite random what will happen by default...
sometimes it wants to copy, sometimes move, sometimes create a shortcut
(which I later found out are very much the poor man's version of symlinks
anyway).
I am no longer so dependent on the graphical interfaces, although I still use
them everyday. Quickly I discovered the command-line and a first thought it
was a bit like a souped-up DOS prompt... not so, I remember the first time I
pressed "tab" and was before long wizzing around the filesystem. Shortly
after aliases, simple shell scripts to relieve mind-numb of frequently
repeated tasks, tweaking the command-line in .bash_profile and .bashrc and
the like became second-nature. There is a lot to learn, but resources like
Mandrake User and things like the Linux Cookbook help enormously... I never
recall seeing a similar 'Cookbook' for Windows 2000 though, or an advanced
guide to DOS batch files (snicker) like the one available for shell-scripts.
I was conscious of well-reported problems in Linux -- but I managed to get
my fonts from Windows imported very quickly and easily, although I crossed
my fingers while using Mandrake's 'drakfont' for the first time! Printing
has proved easy too, Mandrake set up CUPS for me and I've not had a peep of
problem from it yet. I had never burned a CD with Windows before, so that
was a grey area when I came to install a new CD-RW drive. Reading the
HOWTOs and the documentation avialable online convinced me it would be easy
though, and it was -- the only coasters I've produced have been my own
stupid fault. Anyone can burn CDs!
Something that surprised me in the Linux community was not just the
eagerness to help -- in many cases people produced verbose and interesting
reponses to my silly questions -- but the recommendation of tried and tested
(read, OLD LOOKING) software over the latest wizz-bang grafical program. I
found Pan a nice and easy newsreader, but it couldn't do _everything_ I
wanted. So I tried slrn, which although it's text-based is plenty-powerful
enough for my needs and it has not crashed once. Similarly with graphical
zip-type programs. Although I am sure KDE's Archiver is all right, I have
never needed to actually use it for anything! The general attitude of the
Linux community is good too -- help when help is needed, but woe betide the
newbie that asks a stupid question without having at least tried to read the
"fine" manual first... I believe this is for the most part fair, because in
Linux the documentation is _real_ documentation -- it tells you how to use
the program, and doesn't skimp on detail! While this is overwhealming for
new users (man pppd, oh my god!) in time it becomes positively useful given
how M$'s documentation tends to run out quickly after the help's stupid
'troubleshooting' questions like "Have you checked that the power switch is
switched to 'ON'?" have been exhausted.
In some cases it's unfair though, there is no reason to respond to a
perfectly reasonable question -- well thought out and showing evidence of
having read, learned and explored for one's self -- about sendmail with a
curt 'man sendmail' or responding to a question about "What is the best
graphical email client?" with "You know, the good thing about open source is
that you are free to write you own...". This cannot help the perception of
Linux among non-users and the merely curious. Still, for the main part I've
found the help offered very useful and often much more knowledgeable than I
required.
Now I am comfortable with doing things in Linux, although I've yet to sort
out many things and have much to learn. I haven't learned to use a "big"
editor yet, I haven't learned to use Latex and still do not know a very
great deal about doing things from the commandline -- some regexps and
shell-scripts I have seen are mind-boggling. Still, I am sure I will learn
all I need to in time... give me twenty years or so and I might even be able
to use emacs with some proficiency. :)
--
Andrew Preater
Linux user #238547
Ken McFelea
> Hello all,
>
> Today I was looking on Deja for a post I made about 'user'
> and 'document' modes in Opera -- I'd been given a good
> answer then, and my question applied
> as well to Opera for Linux as it did Windows. Then I
> noticed the date: 17th October, which means it must have
> been six months to the day that I first installed
> Linux-Mandrake 8.1 (I made the last post with Agent, and
> installed Linux later that day).
> <mega-snip>
Glad to hear you've had a fun experience. Same here.
My only problem with Linux is that there are so many
distributions available. My inquisitive mind tells me that
I have to try them all. One of these days I'll settle down
although the past two month's have been a huge learning
experience for me. Keep in mind that I've been running
linux for about the past 4 years now. The past couple of
months I've had installs of:
Mandrake 8.1
SuSE Pro 7.3 upgraded with KDE3 and Ximian
Mandrake 8.2 upgraded with KDE3
RedHat 7.2 upgraded with Ximian
Libranet Debian 1.9.1
Debian 2.2 (potato)
Debian 3.0 (woody)
Gentoo 1.1a (system compiled completely from source)
RedHat 7.3 beta (where I currently stand)
<---Personal Opinions Section--->
SuSE is nice but leaves something to be desired when it
comes to configuring my specific hardware.
The Debians are all excellent if you have the time and
knowledge for configuration.
RedHat 7.2 left a somewhat foul taste in my mouth.
Gentoo stands head and shoulders above the rest when it
comes to performance. The only problem is 75% of my
computers uptime was spent compiling new updates. If I
could keep my fingers from typing 'emerge package.ebuild' I
would have been satisfied.
RedHat 7.3 beta has been quite impressive so far. I may stay
with this until the next Mandrake comes out.
Of all these, andrake 8.2 is the best. Out of the box
installation and setup are by far the best and easiest. It
was and still is the distro I recommend for those breaking
into the linux world.
<---End of rant--->
--
Ken McFelea
Registered Linux User #194388
http://counter.li.org
Currently running RedHat Linux 7.3 beta
(Skipjack release 7.2.93)
Frank
"Ken McFelea" <bud...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:G_iv8.108$Xm5....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Trying out new distros is a nice hobby :-)
Franklin Adams
"Andrew Preater" <pre...@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:a9kaeb$44go8$1...@ID-139491.news.dfncis.de...
You are most fortunate. I've been trying for weeks to get my DVD-ROM/CD-RW
drive to play a simple DVD. Btw, how do I get a number like yours?
Franklin
Mike.
-----> and futile these are should skip to the next post now. ;-)
Frank (Fr...@reality.check) had this to say:
<a9kfhb$4hg$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>
> "Ken McFelea" <bud...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:G_iv8.108$Xm5....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
[snip 15 lines]
>> My only problem with Linux is that there are so many distributions
>> available. My inquisitive mind tells me that I have to try them all.
[snip another 15 lines]
> Trying out new distros is a nice hobby :-)
[snip another 30 lines, including .sig]
Another nice hobby is trimming down posts to include just the content
which you are actually commenting on. It really is a /lot/ of fun!
This is even more important if you're just adding a single, worthless
line to the thread. You know why? It's because people take the time
to open your post, scroll down to your content, frown, scroll to the
end of the quoted text and see no new material, and then have nothing
better to do than pounce on you for being a lazy piece of incompetent
shit. After all, there's not a lot that can be said about your actual
contribution (aside from another "me too" post.) So if you're going
to make such content-devoid, worthless posts, at least be good enough
to prevent people wasting any more of their time than neccessary with
them.
Even better, you'll save them from wasting time on equally worthless,
crappy posts chastising you for being an asshole, such as this one.
The benefits of proper quoting are exponential!
--
Mike.
Mart van de Wege
> I've been trying for weeks to get my DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive to play a
> simple DVD. Btw, how do I get a number like yours?
Franklin,
Could you mail me some info on your config? I have a DVD drive happily
playing movies. I can get you the right DeCSS libs as well in case you
don't have them yet.
Oh, and for the number: visit http://counter.li.org and register.
Mart
--
There'll be no prisoners taken when the day is done
No flag or uniform ever stopped a bullet from a gun
-- Gary Moore - Out in the Fields
Doug.M
Is the trouble you have have to do with installing a DVD program or is it
that your DVD can't play movies regardless of the DVD playing software you
use ?
Hans Updyke
>
> October, which means it must have been six months to the day that I first
> installed Linux-Mandrake 8.1 (I made the last post with Agent, and installed
> Linux later that day).
That came as a surprise. Having seen your posts about slrn, and your
mastery of it, I had you pegged as a long-term UNIX user. I've been
using Linux 4 years, but only recently discovered the joy of slrn.
I snipped most of your account of your experiences, though I enjoyed
reading it. You almost make it sound too easy. Wonder if you will
spark contentious replies.
> I am no longer so dependent on the graphical interfaces, although I still use
Don't need no steenkin' GUI?
> them everyday. Quickly I discovered the command-line and a first thought it
> was a bit like a souped-up DOS prompt... not so, I remember the first time I
> pressed "tab" and was before long wizzing around the filesystem. Shortly
> after aliases, simple shell scripts to relieve mind-numb of frequently
> repeated tasks, tweaking the command-line in .bash_profile and .bashrc and
> the like became second-nature. There is a lot to learn, but resources like
Yeah, that power and flexibility is what I most appreciate about Linux
(and UNIX in general).
> Now I am comfortable with doing things in Linux, although I've yet to sort
> out many things and have much to learn. I haven't learned to use a "big"
> editor yet,
Vim. Leverage it. Use "set -o vi" in bash. Substitue vim for mutt to
edit replies in slrn. Configure Opera to use gvim to view HTML source.
Use vim to ease into sed.
Ignore the advice of heretics like Garry and UT on the subject of "big
editor". (In other areas, they appear quite sensible and intellegent.
Evidently, somewhere in the course of their developement they took a
wrong turn.)
> great deal about doing things from the commandline -- some regexps and
> shell-scripts I have seen are mind-boggling. Still, I am sure I will learn
Look on FreshMeat for txt2regex. It can help you sort out syntax for
multiple flavors of regexps. For shell scipting, I found O'Reilly's
_Learning the bash Shell_ worth the $25 US.
> all I need to in time... give me twenty years or so and I might even be able
> to use emacs with some proficiency. :)
Use vim, and you can use it with some proficiency in a day!
Best wishes,
hansup
amonre
Hash: SHA1
Just a guess but you have a dial-up modem don't you?...or a very slow ass
news server...
- --
To prevent wintrolls from taking your ident....use PGP or GPG
download a friendly front-end to one here->
http://www.gnupg.org/frontends.html
Just generate a public private key -> "gpg --gen-key" (have to run it twice
on first time)
Answer the questions. Then export your public key to a server or file "gpg
- --export -a "<your UID here>" > pub.key"
Then send that pub key to a server so everyone can see and get it
http://www.keyserver.net/en/
No more wintrolls taking your name!!!!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE8vdljkYb5Me5vszkRAuS6AJ9PdaB4V3yfOj3XKYTkXTxy8tkfQgCffVCN
j/XWBZezLxzoe8TGnMcdBl4=
=CsQ2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Mike.
<a9kp6g$o47$2...@ns2.htc.net>
> Just a guess but you have a dial-up modem don't you?...or a very slow
> ass news server...
Hehehe, yes to the former. My news server is run by my ISP so it's not
going to get much faster than it already is. My gripe is more with the
mess than the excessive bandwidth and disc usage, though.
--
Mike.
Garry Knight
wrote:
> when dragging-and-dropping files, KDE pops up a little menu when you
> release the mousebutton (by default) asking if I want to copy, move
> or link the file. In Windows it seems quite random what will happen
> by default...
> sometimes it wants to copy, sometimes move, sometimes create a shortcut
All you have to do is to remember to hold down Ctrl while you drag. Or was
that Shift... Or maybe it was Ctrl+Shift...
> I never recall seeing a similar 'Cookbook' for Windows 2000 though, or
> an advanced guide to DOS batch files (snicker)
DR-DOS used to include a lot of information about batch scripting. But
then, that was Digital Research...
> give me twenty years or so and I might even be able to use emacs with
> some proficiency. :)
Run emacs, press Ctrl+h, then t, and spend an hour or so with the tutorial.
You'll be proficient enough.
Nice to see such a positive post, by the way. :o)
--
Garry Knight
garry...@gmx.net ICQ 126351135
Linux registered user 182025
Terry Porter@gronk.porter.net
wrote:
>> Trying out new distros is a nice hobby :-)
By that definition Windows users get to have the same hobby every
two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
Few Windows users like you have made the money I have from my
Linux "hobby".
--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Sorcerer kernel 2.4.17
Free Micro burner: http://w3w.arafuraconnect.com.au/~tp/burn.html
** Linux Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
D. C. Sessions
> Just a guess but you have a dial-up modem don't you?...or a very slow ass
> news server...
Whereas I'm getting my news from a local server fed by a
DSL line. Makes no difference; I had to cruise through the
stupid post three times before I found the original content.
*Human* bandwidth is limited no matter what hardware you have.
--
| It's the heart afraid of breaking that never learns to dance |
| It's the dream afraid of waking that never takes the chance |
| It's the one who won't be taken who cannot seem to give |
| and the soul afraid of dyin' that never learns to live |
+------------- D. C. Sessions <d...@lumbercartel.com> -----------+
Johan Lindquist
Franklin Adams <vipe...@gte.net> suddenly blurted:
<snip 200 quoted lines>
<snip 2 original lines>
Pre-rant disclaimer: This is NOT a personal attack on mr. Adams or any
of his pets, friends, family members, colleuges, business partners,
potted plants or hobbies. He is just the misfortunate author of an
article I've chosen to vent my exasperated opinions on.
<rant>
I'm curious, as I'm seeing more and more of these immensely misquoted
articles, is this a sign that everyone is getting:
1) bigger screens
2) faster connections
3) less polite
4) increasingly uneducated
Or am I missing some obvious reason to why /lots/ of people think it's
okay to scroll through a (OE-mangled to boot, so I can't use the nifty
"press-tab-to-get-to-the-first-unquoted-line" feature of slrn) long
article only to find a couple of lines, which I had no interest in
reading anyway?
</rant>
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
9:21am up 31 days, 9:56, 4 users, load average: 1.36, 1.25, 1.17
$ cat /dev/bollocks
scale back-end content
Johan Lindquist
Garry Knight <garry...@gmx.net> suddenly blurted:
> In article <<a9kaeb$44go8$1...@ID-139491.news.dfncis.de>>, Andrew Preater
> wrote:
>> when dragging-and-dropping files, KDE pops up a little menu when
>> you release the mousebutton (by default) asking if I want to copy,
>> move or link the file. In Windows it seems quite random what will
>> happen by default... sometimes it wants to copy, sometimes move,
>> sometimes create a shortcut
>
> All you have to do is to remember to hold down Ctrl while you drag.
> Or was that Shift... Or maybe it was Ctrl+Shift...
I'm realising I always drag and drop with the right mouse button in ms
windows these days, that way I always get the menu thing and I don't
have to remember which key it was.
>> give me twenty years or so and I might even be able to use emacs
>> with some proficiency. :)
Why would you want to, vi is all you need. ;)
> Nice to see such a positive post, by the way. :o)
Seconded.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
9:29am up 31 days, 10:05, 4 users, load average: 1.48, 1.19, 1.15
$ cat /dev/bollocks
drive strategic architectures
Andrew Preater
> OE-mangled to boot, so I can't use the nifty
> "press-tab-to-get-to-the-first-unquoted-line" feature of slrn) long
> article only to find a couple of lines
Johan,
I would not like to excuse Franklin's idiot-quoting, but... do you have the
s-lang macro that allows you to reformat poorly quoted lines in slrn? It's
called 'oe_quot', can be gotten from:
http://www.geocities.com/tsca.geo/slang.html
It will turn this:
> blah blah blah
blah
> blah blah
Into this at the touch of an esc-q:
> blah blah blah
> blah
> blah blah
Of course, it doesn't re-wrap and re-arrange the text, it just pops in a '>'
where one might be handy. It _should_ be enough to solve your problem,
although it shouldn't be necessary -- all it would take would be for M$ to
write some little fix for OE. I dare say if OE was open source, this would
have been done years ago. As it is, I have the open-source program and I
have to apply the fix!
Andrew Preater
> Having seen your posts about slrn, and your
> mastery of it, I had you pegged as a long-term UNIX user. I've been
> using Linux 4 years, but only recently discovered the joy of slrn.
Wow, I'll take that as a compliment! My tip for learning slrn if anyone else
is thinking of trying it is to print out a copy of the keyboard commands and
learn properly the differences between how they work in articles, the header
pane, the group pane etc. With this I was able to get comfortable with slrn
very quickly -- and of course there are many slang macros and sites with help
on the web, it is easier to borrow someone else's work rather than struggling
with a problem by yourself. :)
> Vim. Leverage it. Use "set -o vi" in bash. Substitue vim for mutt to
> edit replies in slrn. Configure Opera to use gvim to view HTML source.
> Use vim to ease into sed.
Mmm... hmm...
well, it would have to be one of those two editors I'd learn. It's on my
list of things to do, along with 'get wine working properly' and 'REALLY
learn how to use regexps'. Only problem is that I am very much used to
emacs-style keyboard shortcuts in other Linux programs, and I hear that the
vim shortcuts are a bit arcane. Still, I will only have to learn them
the _once_.
> Look on FreshMeat for txt2regex. It can help you sort out syntax for
> multiple flavors of regexps. For shell scipting, I found O'Reilly's
> _Learning the bash Shell_ worth the $25 US.
Okay, I have seen it for GB£14.99 online. Seems like the kind of thing I
would consider buying, usually the only things I see in bookshops are "Redhat
6.1! Unleashed" which seem to mainly cover installing redhat 6.1! Thanks for
the tip about the regexp 'wizard' program too. I understand the differences
between egrep and slang regexps (basically I know what I *cannot* use regexps
for in my scorefiles) but I need to understand the concepts better.
--
Andrew Preater
Linux user #238547
GnuPG ID: 0x120AB314
Johan Lindquist
Hash: SHA1
Thu, 18 Apr 2002 at 11:48 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
Andrew Preater <pre...@linuxmail.org> suddenly blurted:
> do you have the s-lang macro that allows you to reformat poorly
> quoted lines in slrn? It's called 'oe_quot', can be gotten from:
> http://www.geocities.com/tsca.geo/slang.html
I do now, thanks a lot. :)
Does it work on subsequent levels of quoting as well? I've tried it on
the article I responded to in this thread, and it worked just fine on
that one.
> Of course, it doesn't re-wrap and re-arrange the text, it just pops
> in a '>' where one might be handy.
Actually the page mentioned something about re-wrapping as well, but
I don't see any configuration options as to this effect.. perhaps
there's another slang snippet around that provides this feature?
cheers,
/Johan
- --
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
1:19pm up 31 days, 13:54, 5 users, load average: 1.91, 1.81, 1.75
$ cat /dev/bollocks
facilitate open-source interfaces
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
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Y6q2lfdbyTO34Fgzxy8srM4=
=gRfA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Andrew Preater
> Does it work on subsequent levels of quoting as well? I've tried it on
> the article I responded to in this thread, and it worked just fine on
> that one.
In my experience it works wherever and whenever there is quoted text that has
been badly wrapped, so it doesn't matter how many levels of quoting there are
-- although it will only insert _one_ quote prefix. So this:
> > > > > blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah
> > > > > blah blah blah
Will become:
> > > > > blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> blah
> > > > > blah blah blah
But this is fine if you just want to get rid of quoted text by pressing 'T'.
I am sure there is some way to reformat and trim quoted text in the way we'd
like using a macro for jed, and I recall having seen something to that effect
for vim (don't quote me though, memory is fuzzy).
> Actually the page mentioned something about re-wrapping as well, but
> I don't see any configuration options as to this effect.. perhaps
> there's another slang snippet around that provides this feature?
Yes, I have noticed since then that is the case. But there doesn't seem to
be the option, unless you count this in the macro:
define un_oe_quote ()
{ variable
htq = 1 % 1: correct quotes by inserting missing quote signs
% 0: correct quotes by un-wrapping
I do not think that setting it to '0' will acheive nice, even 80 character
wide quoted text, it's only a very small macro! I will try it later though
and see exactly what happens. Not for the first time, he exclaimed: I
fucking hate Outlook Express!
flatfish+++
> Frank threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what they
> wrote:
>
>>> Trying out new distros is a nice hobby :-)
>
> By that definition Windows users get to have the same hobby every
> two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
>
> Few Windows users like you have made the money I have from my
> Linux "hobby".
I suggest you get on the tele real fast and let SuSE, Redhat, Loki etc
know how you are doing it because they could sure use some
expert advice from you.
BTW you might want to phone IBM as well seeing as they just announced
that their 1st quarter earnings are down 33 percent.
flatfish+++
GreyCloud
>
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:27:41 +1000, "Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net"
> <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
>
> >Frank threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what they
> >wrote:
> >
> >>> Trying out new distros is a nice hobby :-)
> >
> >By that definition Windows users get to have the same hobby every
> >two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
>
> very cheap. One upgrade max.
>
> If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money. Why wouldn't you
> buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux Advocate? Surely Redhat or
> Mandrake deserve you support ?
>
No, it is not a significant sum of money. You can download
most of these distros for free. Easier if you have a
broadband connection or you can go to the linuxmall.com and
buy the CDs for about $5. No where near the price of any
windows.
> >Few Windows users like you have made the money I have from my
> >Linux "hobby".
>
> What money have you made from Linux ?
He uses the circuit routing program that comes with linux.
That's his business making circuit boards or providing the
routings.
GreyCloud
Hehehe... that means zip. I'm still reaping from my IBM
stocks.
Andrew Preater
> >By that definition Windows users get to have the same hobby every
> >two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
>
> very cheap. One upgrade max.
Yeah, I have so much money I can buy a new computer every three years!
> If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money.
Mine cost £7.50
> Why wouldn't you
> buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux Advocate? Surely Redhat or
> Mandrake deserve you support ?
Because there is no obligation, you do not _have_ to spend money on your
distro if you don't want to. Others have said that "support" to Linux can
be given in kind by helping others with their questions about the OS, I
agree with this.
Jim Richardson
Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:27:41 +1000, "Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net"
><tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>> Trying out new distros is a nice hobby :-)
>>
>>By that definition Windows users get to have the same hobby every
>>two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
>
> very cheap. One upgrade max.
I don't buy one computer every 3 or 4 years. I buy/build 3-4 *per* year.
Not buying windows, means an extra computer or some nice componants
instead.
>
> If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money. Why wouldn't you
> buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux Advocate? Surely Redhat or
> Mandrake deserve you support ?
So you think that >$100 for WinXP is not significant, but <$30 for Suse
7.3 Personal is significant? is this new math?
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, from watches to mainframes, it expands to fill all situations
Jim Richardson
I am having difficulty getting the macro to work. I am new to slang, so
maybe its a PEBKAC but.... I stick the macro in the .slrnrc file, and it
barfs on the first line define blahblah.
Anyway, gq will reformat to 80 char, (or whatever) including doing
the quoting levels if you highlight the text and hit gq. Don't know how
to make any other editor do that.
Paul Robson
<n...@spam.com> writes:
>Why ? If you buy a new computer every 3 or 4 years you get it free or
>very cheap. One upgrade max.
>
>If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money. Why wouldn't you
>buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux Advocate? Surely Redhat or
>Mandrake deserve you support ?
Are you clinically stupid ? The cost of the latest Microcrap is included
in your PC. And $40 is hardly 'significant' if you do want to buy a
boxed distro.
Andrew Preater
> I am having difficulty getting the macro to work. I am new to slang, so
> maybe its a PEBKAC but.... I stick the macro in the .slrnrc file, and it
> barfs on the first line define blahblah.
No, no!
Put the macro in some directory, it doesn't matter where but ~/News is
always a good choice. You don't need to put it in the .slrnrc, instead you
need to tell slrn to 'interpret' it on startup. So, in slrnrc I have this:
% Use a macro that re-wraps crappy formatted quotes made by the
% Beast's Own Newsreader, M$ outlook express.
interpret "News/oe_quot.sl"
Paths are relative to SLRNHOME, i.e. probably ~/. When you startup slrn it
will give you a message like "loading /home/andrew/News/oe_quot.sl".
> Anyway, gq will reformat to 80 char, (or whatever) including doing
> the quoting levels if you highlight the text and hit gq. Don't know how
> to make any other editor do that.
Interesting, neither do I. I'll look into that one.
Jim Richardson
Andrew Preater <pre...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> * Jim Richardson <war...@eskimo.com> [2002-04-18 18:34]:
>> I am having difficulty getting the macro to work. I am new to slang, so
>> maybe its a PEBKAC but.... I stick the macro in the .slrnrc file, and it
>> barfs on the first line define blahblah.
>
> No, no!
>
> Put the macro in some directory, it doesn't matter where but ~/News is
> always a good choice. You don't need to put it in the .slrnrc, instead you
> need to tell slrn to 'interpret' it on startup. So, in slrnrc I have this:
>
> % Use a macro that re-wraps crappy formatted quotes made by the
> % Beast's Own Newsreader, M$ outlook express.
>
> interpret "News/oe_quot.sl"
<blush>
Thanks Andrew :)
>
> Paths are relative to SLRNHOME, i.e. probably ~/. When you startup slrn it
> will give you a message like "loading /home/andrew/News/oe_quot.sl".
>
>> Anyway, gq will reformat to 80 char, (or whatever) including doing
>> the quoting levels if you highlight the text and hit gq. Don't know how
>> to make any other editor do that.
>
> Interesting, neither do I. I'll look into that one.
>
>
I have found Vim fits me to a T, I try Emacs, but allways come back to
Vim. YMMV.
Don't have a cow man...
At least IBM pays dividends..
GreyCloud
>
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:28:13 +1000,
> Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:27:41 +1000, "Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net"
> ><tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Frank threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what they
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Trying out new distros is a nice hobby :-)
> >>
> >>By that definition Windows users get to have the same hobby every
> >>two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
> >
> > Why ? If you buy a new computer every 3 or 4 years you get it free or
> > very cheap. One upgrade max.
>
> I don't buy one computer every 3 or 4 years. I buy/build 3-4 *per* year.
> Not buying windows, means an extra computer or some nice componants
> instead.
>
> >
> > If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money. Why wouldn't you
> > buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux Advocate? Surely Redhat or
> > Mandrake deserve you support ?
>
> So you think that >$100 for WinXP is not significant, but <$30 for Suse
> 7.3 Personal is significant? is this new math?
>
Actually, I liked your earlier idea of scrounging around for
used high quality unix systems like SGI and SUNS for a low
price.
GreyCloud
>
> >> BTW you might want to phone IBM as well seeing as they just announced
> >> that their 1st quarter earnings are down 33 percent.
> >
> > Hehehe... that means zip. I'm still reaping from my IBM stocks.
>
> At least IBM pays dividends..
:-)
$$$
Terry Porter@gronk.porter.net
what they wrote:
> * Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> [2002-04-18 12:28]:
>
>> >By that definition Windows users get to have the same hobby
>> >every two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
>>
>> Why ? If you buy a new computer every 3 or 4 years you get it
>> free or very cheap. One upgrade max.
>
> Yeah, I have so much money I can buy a new computer every three
> years!
Exactly!
>
>> If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money.
>
> Mine cost £7.50
Sorcerer Linux cost me ... nothing except the $1 CD I burnt it
on.
>
>> Why wouldn't you buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux
>> Advocate? Surely Redhat or Mandrake deserve you support ?
>
> Because there is no obligation, you do not _have_ to spend
> money on your distro if you don't want to. Others have said
> that "support" to Linux can be given in kind by helping others
> with their questions about the OS, I agree with this.
So do I, Linux is not Microsoft and we all put back as we
choose. I've written and released two programs under the GPL, I'm
putting back what I *should*.
>
>
> -- Andrew Preater Linux user #238547
Terry Porter@gronk.porter.net
they wrote:
No Paul, you're the one so moribound with Microsoft zeal that
simple maths is beyond you.
Only 7% of the worlds population have $40, keep your ignorance to
yourself Wintroll.
Jim Richardson
RePC usually has SGI and Sun boxes for $100 on up. They have
consistantly had Sparc20 systems, with monitor, kbd/mouse, CPU and
solaris for ~$500 depending on exact configuration. The SGI stuff is
usually cheaper. Only space has stopped me getting an Indigo, which was
going for $250 for the complet system. Sigh...
Johan Lindquist
>> the quoting levels if you highlight the text and hit gq. Don't know
>> how to make any other editor do that.
>
> Interesting, neither do I. I'll look into that one.
Not sure what gq is, but vi and par will format quite nicely working
together. I just press F9, and presto, instant reformatting.
<http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~amc/Par/>
and
map #9 :.,/^--\s/-1!par w70<CR>
in your .vimrc will do the trick if your sigdashes look like they
should.
hth,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
8:49am up 32 days, 9:25, 4 users, load average: 1.16, 1.20, 1.18
$ cat /dev/bollocks
optimize bleeding-edge methodologies
Johan Lindquist
Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> suddenly blurted:
> Andrew Preater threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is
> what they wrote:
>> * Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> [2002-04-18 12:28]:
>>
>> Mine cost £7.50
>
> Sorcerer Linux cost me ... nothing except the $1 CD I burnt it on.
You should really look into getting less costly cds, that price is
gonna run you out of business pretty soon. ;)
Anyway, my last ten installations of linux cost me the price of
scrounging up an old floppy to boot from. I know, I'm a leech.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
8:55am up 32 days, 9:31, 4 users, load average: 1.38, 1.35, 1.27
$ cat /dev/bollocks
deliver frictionless content
Mike.
say: <slrnabv4qs....@gronk.porter.net>
> Sorcerer Linux cost me ... nothing except the $1 CD I burnt it on.
Hahah, sucker! I burnt Gentoo onto a rewriteable CD, so it cost me...
absolutely nothing! (Okay, it cost some CPU time. Lots of CPU time.)
And yes, I would've had the CDRW anyway, so it really did cost nothing
for me to use it. Except the electricity, but the PC's always on too.
Enough rambling...
--
Mike.
Mike.
<steo9a...@news.smilfinken.net>
> Not sure what gq is, but vi and par will format quite nicely working
> together. I just press F9, and presto, instant reformatting.
In vim, enter visual mode (v), highlight some text, then press g then
q. It just reformats the quoted text, and does a pretty good job of
it. You can just use vgq to format a single line.
> <http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~amc/Par/>
> and
> map #9 :.,/^--\s/-1!par w70<CR>
> in your .vimrc will do the trick if your sigdashes look like they
> should.
The learning never ends... ta.
apt-get install par. Linux shouldn't be /this/ easy. ;-)
Reading Package Lists...
Building Dependency Tree...
The following NEW packages will be installed:
par
0 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 74 not upgraded.
Need to get 41.1kB of archives. After unpacking 84.0kB will be used.
Get:1 ftp://ftp.uwa.edu.au unstable/main par 1.51-1 [41.1kB]
Fetched 41.1kB in 11s (3611B/s)
Selecting previously deselected package par.
(Reading database ... 110824 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking par (from .../archives/par_1.51-1_i386.deb) ...
Setting up par (1.51-1) ...
--
Mike.
Johan Lindquist
Mike. <rapaci...@gingin.net> suddenly blurted:
> Johan Lindquist (sp...@smilfinken.net) had this to say:
> <steo9a...@news.smilfinken.net>
>> Not sure what gq is, but vi and par will format quite nicely
>> working together. I just press F9, and presto, instant
>> reformatting.
>
> In vim, enter visual mode (v), highlight some text, then press g
> then q. It just reformats the quoted text, and does a pretty good
> job of it. You can just use vgq to format a single line.
I have no idea why I didn't make the connection. I will now go and
profuse myself on the altar of all that is good and holy (yeah, I'm
talking about vi) and expect summary judgement. Thanks.
> The learning never ends... ta.
Ditto.
> apt-get install par. Linux shouldn't be /this/ easy. ;-)
<snip lame-o debian ease-of-use marketing drivel>
> Setting up par (1.51-1) ...
-----8<-----
[johan@tiger ~]$ par version
par 1.52
----->8-----
I win.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
10:39am up 32 days, 11:15, 4 users, load average: 1.10, 1.14, 1.17
$ cat /dev/bollocks
transform transparent infomediaries
Johan Lindquist
>> Does it work on subsequent levels of quoting as well? I've tried it
>> on the article I responded to in this thread, and it worked just
>> fine on that one.
>
> In my experience it works wherever and whenever there is quoted text
> that has been badly wrapped, so it doesn't matter how many levels
> of quoting there are -- although it will only insert _one_ quote
> prefix. So this:
Works, I guess. Besides, the whole shebang would take some rather
clever AI programming to figure out which misquote was actually on
which original level..
>> Actually the page mentioned something about re-wrapping as well,
>> but I don't see any configuration options as to this effect..
>> perhaps there's another slang snippet around that provides this
>> feature?
>
> Yes, I have noticed since then that is the case. But there doesn't
> seem to be the option, unless you count this in the macro:
Well, I think my question was rather moot, since slrn will carry
the corrected quoting over to the editor, and you can do all the
formatting your heart desires there.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
11:15am up 32 days, 11:51, 4 users, load average: 1.18, 1.22, 1.23
$ cat /dev/bollocks
orchestrate frictionless portals
Mike.
> Fri, 19 Apr 2002 at 10:05 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
> Mike. <rapaci...@gingin.net> suddenly blurted:
>> Setting up par (1.51-1) ...
> [johan@tiger ~]$ par version
> par 1.52
> I win.
Damn you. I shall not be outdone so easily!
||/ Name Version Description
+++-==============-==============-=====================
ii par 1.52-1 Paragraph reformatter
So there. Building Debian packages is sinfully easily, especially if
there's already a package built. I even added my own entry in to the
changelog, that's how thorough I am. ;-)
The changes are however pretty much neglegible. That's not going to
stop me from filing a bug report, however.
--
Mike.
Johan Lindquist
Mike. <rapaci...@gingin.net> suddenly blurted:
> Johan Lindquist (sp...@smilfinken.net) had this to say:
> <e9lo9a...@news.smilfinken.net>
>> Fri, 19 Apr 2002 at 10:05 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
>> Mike. <rapaci...@gingin.net> suddenly blurted:
>>> Setting up par (1.51-1) ...
>
>
>> I win.
>
> Damn you. I shall not be outdone so easily!
>
Okay, fine, I hate you. Didya really hafta do that? You do realise
this means war. And so on. And this despite the 1.52 version was
released in April last year, so neither of us can actually win now.
You've spoiled it.
I won't aceept a draw tho! I'll bloody well modify the source and make
my own version 1.53 just to spite you. That's how much I hate you,
dammit! I'll get back to you on this matter in 2005 when I'm done, my
fine feathered friend.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
12:26pm up 32 days, 13:02, 4 users, load average: 1.78, 1.48, 1.30
$ cat /dev/bollocks
engineer sexy portals
Mike.
> I won't aceept a draw tho! I'll bloody well modify the source and make
> my own version 1.53 just to spite you. That's how much I hate you,
> dammit! I'll get back to you on this matter in 2005 when I'm done, my
> fine feathered friend.
Heheh. I considered doing this, but decided against it (it might get
confusing if/when a 1.53 /is/ released...) I'm pretty surprised that
the version is Debian is so old, really. Especially given that I seem
to be using an unreleased version of tin! ;-) At least, according to
the website -- http://www.tin.org/ -- and FTP site.
I have filed a bug report though (another thing which is almost too
easy to do.) Hopefully Craig Sanders will act on it...
--
Mike.
Andrew Preater
>> Sorcerer Linux cost me ... nothing except the $1 CD I burnt it on.
>
> You should really look into getting less costly cds, that price is
> gonna run you out of business pretty soon. ;)
AUS$1 = £0.40 = €0.60
Which isn't so expensive. The CDRs I buy cost about 20p a pop, but I have to
buy them 50 at a time to get that good a price. Before anyone says anything
- yes I know that's cheap but I have never had a problem with el cheapo CDRs,
even the ones I use as music CDs which are subjected to routine abuse.
Johan Lindquist
>>> Sorcerer Linux cost me ... nothing except the $1 CD I burnt it on.
>>
>> You should really look into getting less costly cds, that price is
>> gonna run you out of business pretty soon. ;)
>
> AUS$1 = £0.40 = €0.60
That damn euro sign (if that is what it's supposed to be) is going to
make a mess out of all the iso standards in the world, I think.
> Which isn't so expensive. The CDRs I buy cost about 20p a pop, but I
> have to buy them 50 at a time to get that good a price.
Well exactly, Terry is using way too luxurious cds. ;)
> Before anyone says anything - yes I know that's cheap but I have
> never had a problem with el cheapo CDRs, even the ones I use as
> music CDs which are subjected to routine abuse.
I have a fav "brand" of noname I buy in stacks of 50, they haven't let
me down yet. Obviously, I do not store anything on them that I expect
to last for 20 years either, but for what I use them for (movies I
watch on the train and music cds for the car, actually I hope they
deteriorate before the authorities find me out) it's perfect.
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
2:59pm up 32 days, 15:36, 4 users, load average: 1.17, 1.13, 1.14
$ cat /dev/bollocks
leverage sticky platforms
Andrew Preater
> Hmmm... What are their screen fonts like ?
>
>:>
They SUCK!!!!柄`!!111
:)
Sinister Midget
> Fri, 19 Apr 2002 at 05:47 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes, Terry
> Por...@gronk.porter.net <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> suddenly blurted:
>> Andrew Preater threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what they
>> wrote:
>>> * Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> [2002-04-18 12:28]:
>>>> If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money.
>>>
>>> Mine cost £7.50
>>
>> Sorcerer Linux cost me ... nothing except the $1 CD I burnt it on.
>
> You should really look into getting less costly cds, that price is gonna
> run you out of business pretty soon. ;)
>
> Anyway, my last ten installations of linux cost me the price of
> scrounging up an old floppy to boot from. I know, I'm a leech.
>
> cheers,
>
> /Johan
I use CDs that cost US$0.17 each. From those I usually get my 2 machines
installed and pass them around to 1 to 3 others.
--
Linux: Because life is too short to reboot all day.
Mike.
<h810cus26nl7r2nnk...@4ax.com>
> Someone has got to put some money into Linux fellas !!!
Why?
--
Mike.
Mark Kent
>Paul Robson threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what
>they wrote:
>
>> In article <65btbu0kuiibdaphu...@4ax.com>, Sam
>>Richards <n...@spam.com> writes:
>>
>>>Why ? If you buy a new computer every 3 or 4 years you get it
>>>free or very cheap. One upgrade max.
>>>
>>>If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money. Why
>>>wouldn't you buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux
>>>Advocate? Surely Redhat or Mandrake deserve you support ?
>>
>> Are you clinically stupid ? The cost of the latest Microcrap is
>> included in your PC. And $40 is hardly 'significant' if you do
>> want to buy a boxed distro.
>>
>
>No Paul, you're the one so moribound with Microsoft zeal that
>simple maths is beyond you.
>
>Only 7% of the worlds population have $40, keep your ignorance to
>yourself Wintroll.
>
Is it really so low? I knew that it was low, I know that something
like 90% of the world's wealth always seems to lie with less than
10% of its people. Strangely, this seems to be a recursive rule,
as well. I understand that it's also true that 90% of the UK's
wealth is held by less than 10% of its people, and I expect that
if you recurse that to, say, the nicer parts of London and the
South East, the rule probably continues to be true.
Of course, you're absolutely correct that the greatest benefactors
of free software will be the people in third-world countries, who
can now get their hands of software of the hightest quality to run
on practically any hardware platform around. That has to help with
education. Educated people will be healthier (they'll understand
health/hygeine/nutritional stuff), they'll live longer, they'll
be able to worth in higher value-adding ways... ah, a gateway
out of the third world.
--
| Mark Kent -- Take out the ham to mail me. |
Katz' Law:
Men and nations will act rationally when
all other possibilities have been exhausted.
History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives.
-- Abba Eban
Mike.
<ts8p9a...@192.168.1.1>
> Of course, you're absolutely correct that the greatest benefactors
> of free software will be the people in third-world countries, who
> can now get their hands of software of the hightest quality to run
> on practically any hardware platform around. That has to help with
> education. Educated people will be healthier (they'll understand
> health/hygeine/nutritional stuff), they'll live longer, they'll
> be able to worth in higher value-adding ways... ah, a gateway
> out of the third world.
I don't think it's effect is likely to be that dramatic, really.
A much more efficient solution to these problems would be for the big
corporations and governments that make billions of dollars every year
to show a bit of basic human compassion and throw a bit their way.
The immense wealth of the first world countries is an embarrassment to
us all.
--
Mike.
Let the flammage commence...
The Ghost In The Machine
<rapaci...@gingin.net>
wrote
on Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:06:47 +0800
<7mfo9a...@rapacity.dyndns.org>:
Pedant point.
This is a continuation of observations that others have noted in
the past with Win95, and that I can verify, at least by the "wave
hand in vicinity of output fan" (I don't have a thermometer handy).
I've got a dualboot machine that has FreeDOS and Linux. In Linux,
it runs fairly cool, at least while idle; in FreeDOS the temperature
after it's been on awhile is noticeably higher.
I haven't tried to compare things while Linux is busy, though
(e.g., SETI or distributed.net or POVRAY or ...).
(The main reason for FreeDOS? I wanted to play Duke Nukem 3D... :-) )
--
ewi...@earthlink.net -- insert random old game here
EAC code #191 63d:06h:09m actually running Linux.
Be paranoid. Everyone else is.
The Ghost In The Machine
<war...@eskimo.com>
wrote
on Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:29:40 -0700
<4qvm9a...@127.0.0.1>:
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:28:13 +1000,
> Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:27:41 +1000, "Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net"
>><tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
>>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Trying out new distros is a nice hobby :-)
>>>
>>>By that definition Windows users get to have the same hobby every
>>>two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
>>
>> very cheap. One upgrade max.
>
> Not buying windows, means an extra computer or some nice componants
> instead.
>
>>
>> buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux Advocate? Surely Redhat or
>> Mandrake deserve you support ?
>
>
> 7.3 Personal is significant? is this new math?
Bear in mind that Windows XP is "free" on new computers, as it comes
preinstalled. (I put "free" in quotes for hopefully obvious
reasons -- one wonders who's paying whom where and when. However,
Joe User may not notice the hidden costs here.)
--
ewi...@earthlink.net -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 63d:16h:11m actually running Linux.
This is not a .sig.
Mike.
<slrnac0nvq...@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net>
> This is a continuation of observations that others have noted in
> the past with Win95, and that I can verify, at least by the "wave
> hand in vicinity of output fan" (I don't have a thermometer handy).
> I've got a dualboot machine that has FreeDOS and Linux. In Linux,
> it runs fairly cool, at least while idle; in FreeDOS the temperature
> after it's been on awhile is noticeably higher.
Hmmmm. Well, linux runs the HLT instruction in it's idle thread, which
makes most CPU's slow down and thus emit less heat. It's likely that
FreeDOS doesn't do this, so the CPU runs at full pelt all the time. I
think Windows started doing this in '98 (SE?) or so.
It might account for it, it might not.
> (The main reason for FreeDOS? I wanted to play Duke Nukem 3D... :-) )
Hehehe, those were the days... ;-)
Although for my money, the greatest FPS experience I ever had (and the
thing that made me actually start liking them) was playing Doom with a
friend over a modem link -- 9600 baud. Great stuff that ;-)
The second level, entering the maze with the flashing lights on a mere
2% health, figuring I was going to die yet again... a few very intense
minutes later, I emerge with much more health and no more bad guys. A
life changing moment for me; I never cared much for those games before
that. Anyway, way off-topic... :-)
--
Mike.
Jim Richardson
Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> coffee.
>
> All the posts have been saying you spend nothing on Linux distros.
>
> Fine, but
>
> That is why Linux is going nowhere commercially. Everyone interested
> is advocating the product but no-one is actually putting any money in.
>
> Someone has got to put some money into Linux fellas !!!
>
You mean like IBM putting in $1 Billion? That sort of money?
> Sam
Joe Potter
Someone once said, "A billion here, a billion there --- next thing you know
we willl be talking *real* money."
--
Regards, Joe
Registered Gnu/Linux User #225822
Andrew Preater
> Is it really so low? I knew that it was low, I know that something
> like 90% of the world's wealth always seems to lie with less than
> 10% of its people. Strangely, this seems to be a recursive rule,
If anything this bit should be much lower, if we're talking on a global
scale. I can't remember the last time I saw this stat, but I think it's
probably more like 95% / 5%. I am sure the New Internationalist website
will have up-to-date figures though (newint.org I think).
> Educated people will be healthier (they'll understand
> health/hygeine/nutritional stuff), they'll live longer, they'll
> be able to worth in higher value-adding ways... ah, a gateway
> out of the third world.
It's a nice idea, but I do not think anything will change until we start to
address the problems of global inequality properly, that enormous
North-South divide, rather than just making noises about it (I fucking
hate Tory Blair) and giving aid to countries who make useful allies,
rather than those who really need it.
Andrew Preater
>> AUS$1 = £0.40 = €0.60
>
> That damn euro sign (if that is what it's supposed to be) is going to
> make a mess out of all the iso standards in the world, I think.
That's what it's supposed to be... damn, it's now showing up here properly
either. When we (UK) get with the times and enter the single currency, I
suppose I will have an incentive to figure out how to use the euro-glyph in
Linux. But not yet. :)
> for what I use them for (movies I
> watch on the train and music cds for the car, actually I hope they
> deteriorate before the authorities find me out) it's perfect.
I have this mental picture of Johan having his collar felt by the law and
wishing he'd bought cheaper, nastier CDRs! :D
Mark Kent
>* Mark Kent <ma...@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk> [2002-04-19 18:04]:
>> Is it really so low? I knew that it was low, I know that something
>> like 90% of the world's wealth always seems to lie with less than
>> 10% of its people. Strangely, this seems to be a recursive rule,
> ^^
> If anything this bit should be much lower, if we're talking on a global
> scale. I can't remember the last time I saw this stat, but I think it's
> probably more like 95% / 5%. I am sure the New Internationalist website
> will have up-to-date figures though (newint.org I think).
I'm not surprised, to be honest.
>
>> Educated people will be healthier (they'll understand
>> health/hygeine/nutritional stuff), they'll live longer, they'll
>> be able to worth in higher value-adding ways... ah, a gateway
>> out of the third world.
>
>It's a nice idea, but I do not think anything will change until we start to
>address the problems of global inequality properly, that enormous
>North-South divide, rather than just making noises about it (I fucking
>hate Tory Blair) and giving aid to countries who make useful allies,
>rather than those who really need it.
>
Yeah - whatever happened to our 'ethical foreign policy'?
Mark Kent
Hehe - it was good fun. Wolf3D was pretty amazing, but doom was
the first game that actually managed to frighten me, playing in dark
room, sound up high... also I recall having doom dreams a long
time ago. My first 2 player game with null-modem cable was a
pretty life-changing moment as well. Still like doom, the legacy
port is excellent (not everyone's favourite) and it plays well in
freedos and linux.
Michael Vester
> The Ghost In The Machine (ewi...@earthlink.net) had this to say:
> <slrnac0nvq...@lexi2.athghost7038suus.net>
>
> > This is a continuation of observations that others have noted in
> > the past with Win95, and that I can verify, at least by the "wave
> > hand in vicinity of output fan" (I don't have a thermometer handy).
>
> > I've got a dualboot machine that has FreeDOS and Linux. In Linux,
> > it runs fairly cool, at least while idle; in FreeDOS the temperature
> > after it's been on awhile is noticeably higher.
>
> Hmmmm. Well, linux runs the HLT instruction in it's idle thread, which
> makes most CPU's slow down and thus emit less heat. It's likely that
> FreeDOS doesn't do this, so the CPU runs at full pelt all the time. I
> think Windows started doing this in '98 (SE?) or so.
>
> It might account for it, it might not.
>
> > (The main reason for FreeDOS? I wanted to play Duke Nukem 3D... :-) )
>
> Hehehe, those were the days... ;-)
>
> Although for my money, the greatest FPS experience I ever had (and the
> thing that made me actually start liking them) was playing Doom with a
> friend over a modem link -- 9600 baud. Great stuff that ;-)
>
Where I worked, we setup Doom to run over an IPX network. Every lunch time,
we would have great battles. Our coworkers would actually bet on the
outcomes. Of course, I was supreme champion and earned 3-1 odds over my
closest rival. Probably, the most fun computer game of its time.
> The second level, entering the maze with the flashing lights on a mere
> 2% health, figuring I was going to die yet again... a few very intense
> minutes later, I emerge with much more health and no more bad guys. A
> life changing moment for me; I never cared much for those games before
> that. Anyway, way off-topic... :-)
With Doom 2, I would attempt to do the entire course just using the
shotgun. Only one level was too dificult. Too many of those big half
bull/half human creatures. The shotgun just could not deal with a room full
of them.
Another fun network game was a jet simulator. Two could play and fight each
other. I can't remember what the game was called. It fit on one floppy and
used an IPX network.
--
3:13pm up 35 days, 4:13, 1 user, load average: 1.13, 1.28, 1.25
Linux Counter Registration #126647
Mark Kent
>Mark Kent (ma...@noham.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk) had this to say:
> <ts8p9a...@192.168.1.1>
>
>> Of course, you're absolutely correct that the greatest benefactors
>> of free software will be the people in third-world countries, who
>> can now get their hands of software of the hightest quality to run
>> on practically any hardware platform around. That has to help with
>> education. Educated people will be healthier (they'll understand
>> health/hygeine/nutritional stuff), they'll live longer, they'll
>> be able to worth in higher value-adding ways... ah, a gateway
>> out of the third world.
>
>I don't think it's effect is likely to be that dramatic, really.
>
>A much more efficient solution to these problems would be for the big
>corporations and governments that make billions of dollars every year
>to show a bit of basic human compassion and throw a bit their way.
Trouble is that most 'aid' provided is tied to specific projects,
which are conditional on contracts going to the country which provided
the aid in the first place, so it just doesn't work.
Something like free software is far more use, because it's /not/ tied
to any particular country or supplier, but can be used by the country
in question to their own benefit, as they see fit.
The most successful foreign aid projects appear to have been the most
mundane, such as those providing basic medical care, hygeine education
and so on, and perhaps providing things like a decent water well with
pump, or gardening tools for basic farming, seeds, /simple/ irrigation
technology (nothing electrical, just mechanical pumps and water runs),
that kind of stuff.
Machines which require a lot of maintenance and spare parts are not
usually much use, because third world countries just don't have the
forex to buy the parts, or usually even the expertise to do the
maintenance.
Commodity systems are best, and free software is the 'commodity' of
the software world. Imagine what a village could do with an old
PC with a CDrom drive and linux on it. Ship a few CDs out and you've
got an instant classroom; information on CDs in local language,
perhaps with audio (ogg) or video (divx?) stuff on how to farm, how
to solve medical problems, how to identify cateracts, how to disinfect
and treat minor wounds, how to irrigate for different strains of
rice. Even information on /what/ kind of things to seek external
help on.
Imagine that system running on older, inexpensive hardware, perhaps
powered by a wind-up generator (a la baycom radio) and perhaps with
a solar cell supply as well, where the software costs /nothing/ rather
than hundreds of pounds.
Now couple that system with a wind-up radio link and packet radio
modem with a path to a central government point - you can now have
email or voicemail connections for providing extra help and support.
>
>The immense wealth of the first world countries is an embarrassment to
>us all.
--
Mark Kent
No, XP is /not/ free, whether you put it in quotes or not. It costs
/real/ money when the user buys it, whether it be bundled or not.
Saying it's free is just a lie.
oldNbald
> Hello all,
>
> Today I was looking on Deja for a post I made about 'user' and 'document'
> modes in Opera -- I'd been given a good answer then, and my question
> applied
> as well to Opera for Linux as it did Windows. Then I noticed the date:
> 17th October, which means it must have been six months to the day that I
> first installed Linux-Mandrake 8.1 (I made the last post with Agent, and
> installed Linux later that day).
>[...]
Andrew, I see you have cross posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy group. Good !
My reply is too - I know, I know, cross posting is frowned upon. So is
picking your nose in public but sometimes it's necessary.
You may expect cross-eyed Windowsux users to flame it, but who cares? Feed
a dog crap all its life and it knows nothing better - but give it a stake
and it will stop defending the crap. This dog is eating nothing of the crap
Windowsux makes as I <love> my Mandrake stake !
A transferee from Windowsux of about 8 months and am <fully satisfied> with
ML.
--
oNb
Life is too short to tolerate crappy software - dump MS & get Linux today !
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
flatfish+++
> The Ghost In The Machine <ewi...@earthlink.net> espoused:
>
> /real/ money when the user buys it, whether it be bundled or not.
> Saying it's free is just a lie.
And Linux *is* free yet virtually *every single* major PC manufacturer that
announced Linux pre-loads on desktop systems has discontinued them.
Seems to me if the hardware vendors could save some money selling
systems with Linux they would.
Problem was there was close to zero demand.
So XP isn't free, but yet people are willing to pay for it yet at the
same time ignoring Linux as a desktop solution.
What does that tell you?
flatfish+++
Donn Miller
flatfish+++ wrote:
> So XP isn't free, but yet people are willing to pay for it yet at the
> same time ignoring Linux as a desktop solution.
So how much did you pay for XP again?
Mark Kent
>
>With Doom 2, I would attempt to do the entire course just using the
>shotgun. Only one level was too dificult. Too many of those big half
>bull/half human creatures. The shotgun just could not deal with a room full
>of them.
Doom_SE was also impossible with that trick - the fourth episode was
just too difficult from the start.
>
>Another fun network game was a jet simulator. Two could play and fight each
>other. I can't remember what the game was called. It fit on one floppy and
>used an IPX network.
>
sounds good - have a try - see if you can recall, please? Feel free
to email me any good guesses you might have, please?
flatfish+++
>
>
> flatfish+++ wrote:
>
>> So XP isn't free, but yet people are willing to pay for it yet at the
>> same time ignoring Linux as a desktop solution.
>
> So how much did you pay for XP again?
Nothing.
One of my clients added me to his corporate license because that
is his firms OS of choice. I have a completely legal and free, at least to me,
copy.
BTW I haven't heard a peep from him since he converted the office last year.
Prior to that he was the client from hell.
Why do you ask?
flatfish+++
GreyCloud
>
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:19:55 -0700,
> GreyCloud <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote:
> > Jim Richardson wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:28:13 +1000,
> >> Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> >> > On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:27:41 +1000, "Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net"
> >> ><tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Frank threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what they
> >> >>wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>> Trying out new distros is a nice hobby :-)
> >> >>
> >> >>By that definition Windows users get to have the same hobby every
> >> >>two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
> >> >
> >> > Why ? If you buy a new computer every 3 or 4 years you get it free or
> >> > very cheap. One upgrade max.
> >>
> >> I don't buy one computer every 3 or 4 years. I buy/build 3-4 *per* year.
> >> Not buying windows, means an extra computer or some nice componants
> >> instead.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money. Why wouldn't you
> >> > buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux Advocate? Surely Redhat or
> >> > Mandrake deserve you support ?
> >>
> >> So you think that >$100 for WinXP is not significant, but <$30 for Suse
> >> 7.3 Personal is significant? is this new math?
> >>
> >
> > used high quality unix systems like SGI and SUNS for a low
> > price.
>
> RePC usually has SGI and Sun boxes for $100 on up. They have
> consistantly had Sparc20 systems, with monitor, kbd/mouse, CPU and
> solaris for ~$500 depending on exact configuration. The SGI stuff is
> usually cheaper. Only space has stopped me getting an Indigo, which was
> going for $250 for the complet system. Sigh...
>
Gaaahhhh!!!! If I can only break away and get over
there!!! OH MY!!
GreyCloud
> >> > If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money. Why wouldn't you
> >> > buy a distro if you were a loyal Linux Advocate? Surely Redhat or
> >> > Mandrake deserve you support ?
> >>
> >> So you think that >$100 for WinXP is not significant, but <$30 for Suse
> >> 7.3 Personal is significant? is this new math?
> >>
> >
> >Actually, I liked your earlier idea of scrounging around for
> >used high quality unix systems like SGI and SUNS for a low
> >price.
>
>
Doesn't matter. You get pretty good ones one the SGIs from
what I've seen on TechTV tho. For the Suns you can purchase
3rd party vendor fonts that are really cool. And getting a
reliable machine at a low price is a pretty good idea for a
retired old fart like me for a hobby.
GreyCloud
Can you imagine if we could eliminate all the taxes that
businesses pass on to the buyer?? I'd bet that these
machines would be dirt cheap.
Bob Hauck
> Why ? If you buy a new computer every 3 or 4 years you get it free or
> very cheap. One upgrade max.
Most people don't buy a new computer every three or four years.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
Bob Hauck
> Fri, 19 Apr 2002 at 14:32 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
> Andrew Preater <pre...@linuxmail.org> suddenly blurted:
>> AUS$1 = £0.40 = €0.60
>
> That damn euro sign (if that is what it's supposed to be) is going to
> make a mess out of all the iso standards in the world, I think.
ISO-8859-15 is your friend.
GreyCloud
>
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:47:40 +1000, "Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net"
> <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
>
> >Andrew Preater threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is
> >>> >every two years, and its a hobby that co$ts them dearly.
> >>>
> >>> free or very cheap. One upgrade max.
> >>
> >> years!
> >
> >Exactly!
> >
> >>
> >>> If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money.
> >>
> >
> >Sorcerer Linux cost me ... nothing except the $1 CD I burnt it
> >on.
> >
> >>
> >>> Advocate? Surely Redhat or Mandrake deserve you support ?
> >>
> >> money on your distro if you don't want to. Others have said
> >> that "support" to Linux can be given in kind by helping others
> >> with their questions about the OS, I agree with this.
> >
> >So do I, Linux is not Microsoft and we all put back as we
> >choose. I've written and released two programs under the GPL, I'm
> >putting back what I *should*.
>
> Yeah... That contribution and a couple of bucks will buy you a cup of
> coffee.
>
> All the posts have been saying you spend nothing on Linux distros.
>
> Fine, but
>
> That is why Linux is going nowhere commercially. Everyone interested
> is advocating the product but no-one is actually putting any money in.
>
No commercial interests?? Ah, Hollywood and all your
favorite movies, IBM, Sun, etc.
> Someone has got to put some money into Linux fellas !!!
>
The above mentioned have put money into linux.
GreyCloud
>
> Andrew Preater <pre...@linuxmail.org> espoused:
> >* Mark Kent <ma...@NOHAM.otford.kent.btinternet.co.uk> [2002-04-19 18:04]:
> >> Is it really so low? I knew that it was low, I know that something
> >> like 90% of the world's wealth always seems to lie with less than
> >> 10% of its people. Strangely, this seems to be a recursive rule,
> > ^^
> > If anything this bit should be much lower, if we're talking on a global
> > scale. I can't remember the last time I saw this stat, but I think it's
> > probably more like 95% / 5%. I am sure the New Internationalist website
> > will have up-to-date figures though (newint.org I think).
>
> I'm not surprised, to be honest.
>
> >
> >> Educated people will be healthier (they'll understand
> >> health/hygeine/nutritional stuff), they'll live longer, they'll
> >> be able to worth in higher value-adding ways... ah, a gateway
> >> out of the third world.
> >
> >It's a nice idea, but I do not think anything will change until we start to
> >address the problems of global inequality properly, that enormous
> >North-South divide, rather than just making noises about it (I fucking
> >hate Tory Blair) and giving aid to countries who make useful allies,
> >rather than those who really need it.
> >
>
> Yeah - whatever happened to our 'ethical foreign policy'?
>
I still can't find our foreign policy in print.
Terry Porter@gronk.porter.net
wrote:
> Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net (tjpo...@gronk.porter.net) had
> this to say: <slrnabv4qs....@gronk.porter.net>
>
>> Sorcerer Linux cost me ... nothing except the $1 CD I burnt it
>> on.
>
> Hahah, sucker!
Waaaaa, I've been out cheapened!
> I burnt Gentoo onto a rewriteable CD, so it cost me...
> absolutely nothing! (Okay, it cost some CPU time. Lots of CPU
> time.) And yes, I would've had the CDRW anyway, so it really
> did cost nothing for me to use it. Except the electricity, but
> the PC's always on too. Enough rambling...
You win, there is just no way I can wriggle out of the fact that
Gentoo did cost me $1 but you got it for free!
--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Sorcerer kernel 2.4.17
Free Micro burner: http://w3w.arafuraconnect.com.au/~tp/burn.html
** Linux Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
Terry Porter@gronk.porter.net
what they wrote:
> Fri, 19 Apr 2002 at 05:47 GMT, peering quizzically
> at his shoes, Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net
> <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> suddenly blurted:
>
>> Andrew Preater threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is
>> what they wrote:
>>
>>> * Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> [2002-04-18 12:28]:
>>>
>>>> If you buy Linux Distros they cost significant money.
>>>
>>> Mine cost £7.50
>>
>> Sorcerer Linux cost me ... nothing except the $1 CD I burnt it
>> on.
>
> You should really look into getting less costly cds, that price
> is gonna run you out of business pretty soon. ;)
Hmm, I could have lowered it by 1000 by using a re-writable
CD, but that would have required I first outlay $6 to purchase
another one.
Oh the expense of it all!
>
> Anyway, my last ten installations of linux cost me the price of
> scrounging up an old floppy to boot from. I know, I'm a leech.
A good recycler such as yourself is a boon to the computing
community, I mean look at all those unwanted Microsoft driver
floppys that every Linux user gets with purchases of mice,
printers, video cards etc :)
flatfish+++
Personally I'd like to eliminate all taxes completely.
The IRS is not what our founding fathers had in mind.
flatfish+++
Jim Richardson
heavens above! I find myself in complete agreement with flatty!
GreyCloud
Same here. But can you imagine the very low cost of a good
computer would be like??
Every time a manufacture makes a part and sells a component
to another company it gets taxed. I wonder what the real
total tax is on the average PC??
Jim Richardson
Forget the PC industry, Just look at the federal +state budgets, Add
them up, then divide by the population numbers. In Washington for
example, The biennium budget is some $20 Billion, so that's $10 Billion
a year. Now, the federal budget is ( as far as I can tell.) $2.128
Trillion, I don't know what the rest of the states budgets are, nor do I
care to find out. Total US pop is 281 Million, Wa pop is 5.9 Million,
which is approx 2% of the total US pop. So we will "assign" 2% of the fed
spending to Wa. Which is $42 Billion. Add to that the $10 billion the
state spends, you get $52 Billion, now devide that into the population
of the state, 5.9 Million, and the cost in taxes to each man woman and
child in the frigging country is over 8800 dolars paid in one form of
tax or another. Of course, children don't pay taxes, (or rather, they
don't usually earn the money that the state rips from their fingers in
taxes and other tariffs and fees.) so their "share" is paid by th rest
of us, so the actual tax paid by most of the working stiffs is a lot
higher. The govt likes to play games with the figures, talking about
average this and median that. But where the rubber meets the road, is
what the govt spends, devided by the population. They don't get money
from overseas, with a very few exceptions. A minor amount from companies
with overseas operations that can't shift the taxes offshore. But
remember, other contries do the same with US corps, and that drain on
our pockets isn't included here either.
So remember folks, work hard, and pay "your" taxes, a police state
doesn't come cheap.
This is depressing, I want to post something about linux again...
Getting a wifi card for my Zaurus, now I will be annoying the wife to
let me put a nice colinear antenna on the backstay...
Terry Porter@gronk.porter.net
they wrote:
>
>
> flatfish+++ wrote:
>
>> So XP isn't free, but yet people are willing to pay for it yet
>> at the same time ignoring Linux as a desktop solution.
Bwahahahah, the store they bough the PC from *only* has XP, no
Linux in sight.
Is this our "new" Linux embracing flatfish ;-)
>
> So how much did you pay for XP again?
Flatfish is in possetion of an illegal copy of XP.
Donn Miller
> Is this our "new" Linux embracing flatfish ;-)
He's just trying to get us all warm and fuzzy so he can drop a
proverbial Grand Piano on our heads with an idiotic post about fonts
looking like crap.
Johan Lindquist
Hash: SHA1
Sat, 20 Apr 2002 at 03:36 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
Brad Sims <bs...@abnt.org> suddenly blurted:
> I was annoyed when AOL switched to CD, I was getting a free floppy
> every few weeks; then the floppy fairy went away :(
>
> Of course now I get free drink-coasters in the mail so it all evens
> out in the end.
I have enough from the msdn subscription, thanks. Those are even
matching sets of ~400. I'm saving them for if I'm going to marry some
day and have a large reception.
What ever happened to that kiddo in finland who reportedly had figured
out how to recycle plain cd-roms? I remember a big hoopla about it a
couple of years ago, but I guess it wasn't all that in the end.
cheers,
/Johan
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--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
1:46pm up 33 days, 14:23, 4 users, load average: 1.12, 1.25, 1.23
$ cat /dev/bollocks
leverage global partnerships
Terry Porter@gronk.porter.net
they wrote:
> Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net wrote:
>
>> Is this our "new" Linux embracing flatfish ;-)
>
> He's just trying to get us all warm and fuzzy so he can drop a
> proverbial Grand Piano on our heads with an idiotic post about
> fonts looking like crap.
He sure is, no doubt at all.
When Linux finally overtakes Microsoft, flathead will vaporise
into thin air never to be seen again, like all the other fake id
anti-Linux spammers.
Johan Lindquist
Bob Hauck <b...@this-is.invalid> suddenly blurted:
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:09:09 GMT, Johan Lindquist <sp...@smilfinken.net> wrote:
>> Fri, 19 Apr 2002 at 14:32 GMT, peering quizzically at his shoes,
>> Andrew Preater <pre...@linuxmail.org> suddenly blurted:
>>> AUS$1 = £0.40 = €0.60
>>
>> That damn euro sign (if that is what it's supposed to be) is going
>> to make a mess out of all the iso standards in the world, I think.
>
> ISO-8859-15 is your friend.
I used to think so, and I used to think I had that installed on this
here box as well, but works it don't.
Guess I'll be looking at some howtos in a near future. :)
cheers,
/Johan
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
1:57pm up 33 days, 14:34, 4 users, load average: 1.14, 1.20, 1.21
$ cat /dev/bollocks
streamline user-centric methodologies
Andrew Preater
> Bear in mind that Windows XP is "free" on new computers, as it comes
> preinstalled.
Not free for me, my computer is a roll-your-own job and did not come with
anything pre-installed. I would have to buy a whole new computer to get
WinXP for "free", or buy it seperately. This would cost, according to the
dabs.com snail-mail spam I got through the door the other day, £269 for
Win2000 or £163 for WinXP "Home". I don't understand the difference between
"Home" and "Professional" versions of WinXP, but given that the Pro version
costs an extra £70 I am guessing there's some things missing in the Home
version. Of course I could pay £600 for a new computer, either way it's
not value for money when I can get Mandrake 8.2 for £7.50.
--
Andrew Preater
Linux user #238547
Andrew Preater
> Andrew, I see you have cross posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy group. Good !
It was really "meant" for COLA, but I thought it was relevent to AOLM too
given the Mandrake connection. I don't see anything wrong with x-posting to
a few groups if it's relevant and I don't mind seeing them either. That
said, I have slrn set to kill x-posts to >3 groups!
> You may expect cross-eyed Windowsux users to flame it, but who cares? Feed
> a dog crap all its life and it knows nothing better - but give it a stake
> and it will stop defending the crap. This dog is eating nothing of the crap
> Windowsux makes as I <love> my Mandrake stake
Ah, that does make sense after I stopped reading "stake" and thinking about
BillZ as bloodsucking vampire. But after reading the page at M$.com about
accepting donated computers in schools etc., I don't think the comparison is
unjustified.
> A transferee from Windowsux of about 8 months and am <fully satisfied> with
> ML.
Another Usenet habit I do not like, but must... me too!
Mike.
<slrnac16di.31...@localhost.localdomain>
> And Linux *is* free yet virtually *every single* major PC manufacturer
> that announced Linux pre-loads on desktop systems has discontinued
> them.
> Seems to me if the hardware vendors could save some money selling
> systems with Linux they would.
> Problem was there was close to zero demand.
At the moment. But think about it for a moment -- the majority of the
people that would want linux are technically-minded types, or "normal"
users who have been shown an alternative to Windows by a friend who is
technically-minded.
I think the vast majority of such types would not even consider buying
a full system from one of the major vendors. They buy components and
put the system together themselves. So you are probably quite correct
that there was close to zero demand for pre-installed linux systems at
present. I haven't bought a new system as a whole since 1996.
Even assuming there are some companies that the tech-savvy would go to
for a complete system, most probably wouldn't want an OS pre-installed
on it for them, regardless of what they will put on it in future.
--
Mike.
flatfish+++
> Donn Miller threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what
> they wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> flatfish+++ wrote:
>>
>>> So XP isn't free, but yet people are willing to pay for it yet
>>> at the same time ignoring Linux as a desktop solution.
>
> Bwahahahah, the store they bough the PC from *only* has XP, no
> Linux in sight.
And why is that?
> Is this our "new" Linux embracing flatfish ;-)
It's a fact.
>>
>> So how much did you pay for XP again?
>
> Flatfish is in possetion of an illegal copy of XP.
Still telling lies Porter?
You love to perpetuate lies Porter.
Do secretly hope that someday they will come true or are
you just ignorant?
Not according to MS I don't.
Perfectly legal, licensed copy with a Key trackable to the
company that legally paid for it.
flatfish+++
flatfish+++
> Donn Miller threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what
> they wrote:
>
>> Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net wrote:
>>
>>> Is this our "new" Linux embracing flatfish ;-)
>>
>> He's just trying to get us all warm and fuzzy so he can drop a
>> proverbial Grand Piano on our heads with an idiotic post about
>> fonts looking like crap.
>
> He sure is, no doubt at all.
>
> When Linux finally overtakes Microsoft, flathead will vaporise
> into thin air never to be seen again, like all the other fake id
> anti-Linux spammers.
No I won't because by the time Linux takes over MS it might actually
have all the applications I need to use, so I will happily be using Linux.
It's a simple as that Porter.
You see Porter, an OS for me is not a religios (sp?) experience nor is
it a matter of hating one product/company over another.
I simply use what works, and in this case for my DAW work it is Windows.
You zealots have no idea how foolish you look to the outside world.
flatfish+++
Mark Kent
>On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:28:13 +1000, Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> wrote:
>
>> Why ? If you buy a new computer every 3 or 4 years you get it free or
>> very cheap. One upgrade max.
>
>Most people don't buy a new computer every three or four years.
>
And it's not free, it's very expensive. Linux is free. MS Windows
is very very expensive.
--
| Mark Kent -- Take out the ham to mail me. |
Like ya know? Rock 'N Roll is an esoteric language that unlocks the
creativity chambers in people's brains, and like totally activates their
essential hipness, which of course is like totally necessary for saving
the earth, like because the first thing in saving this world, is getting
rid of stupid and square attitudes and having fun.
-- Senior Year Quote
GreyCloud
Very good points indeed Jim! :-)
The Ghost In The Machine
<flatf...@mariana.trench>
wrote
on Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:29:42 GMT
<slrnac16di.31...@localhost.localdomain>:
> In article <0p2q9a...@192.168.1.1>, Mark Kent wrote:
>> The Ghost In The Machine <ewi...@earthlink.net> espoused:
>>
>> No, XP is /not/ free, whether you put it in quotes or not. It costs
>> /real/ money when the user buys it, whether it be bundled or not.
>> Saying it's free is just a lie.
>
>
>
> And Linux *is* free yet virtually *every single* major PC
> manufacturer that announced Linux pre-loads on desktop systems
> has discontinued them.
>
> Seems to me if the hardware vendors could save some money selling
> systems with Linux they would.
Unless the DOS-era contracts requiring a payment per CPU have been
discontinued, I don't see how they could possibly save any money.
>
> Problem was there was close to zero demand.
>
> So XP isn't free, but yet people are willing to pay for it yet at the
> same time ignoring Linux as a desktop solution.
>
> What does that tell you?
It tells me that people prefer Windows. This is not a bad thing in
itself; Windows can be very useful. The main problem might simply
be that Linux is not useful enough to the vast majority.
Yet! :-)
>
> flatfish+++
>
--
ewi...@earthlink.net -- personally, I find it *very* useful
EAC code #191 64d:08h:36m actually running Linux.
The Internet routes around censorship.
Peter Köhlmann
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:50:34 +1000, "Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net"
> <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>> He's just trying to get us all warm and fuzzy so he can drop a
>>> proverbial Grand Piano on our heads with an idiotic post about
>>> fonts looking like crap.
>>
>>He sure is, no doubt at all.
>>
>>When Linux finally overtakes Microsoft, flathead will vaporise
>>into thin air never to be seen again, like all the other fake id
>>anti-Linux spammers.
>
> When do you think Linux will overtake Windows as a desktop OS ?
>
> Seriously ....
>
> Give me your best estimated time.
>
> I need a laugh....
>
Hi, forger, when do you think you will grow your brain (all 2 cells)?
Peter
--
A NT server can be run by idiots and usually is
Jim Richardson
Sam Richards <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:50:34 +1000, "Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net"
><tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
>
><snip>
>>> proverbial Grand Piano on our heads with an idiotic post about
>>> fonts looking like crap.
>>
>>He sure is, no doubt at all.
>>
>>When Linux finally overtakes Microsoft, flathead will vaporise
>>into thin air never to be seen again, like all the other fake id
>>anti-Linux spammers.
>
>
> Seriously ....
>
> Give me your best estimated time.
>
> I need a laugh....
>
>
I can't say when, but I can tell you how. One desktop at a time....
«and one by one, the penguins marched on»
Tom Wilson
> On Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:50:34 +1000, "Terry Por...@gronk.porter.net"
> <tjpo...@gronk.porter.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>> He's just trying to get us all warm and fuzzy so he can drop a
>>> proverbial Grand Piano on our heads with an idiotic post about fonts
>>> looking like crap.
>>
>>He sure is, no doubt at all.
>>
>>When Linux finally overtakes Microsoft, flathead will vaporise into thin
>>air never to be seen again, like all the other fake id anti-Linux
>>spammers.
>
> When do you think Linux will overtake Windows as a desktop OS ?
>
> Seriously ....
If and when developers start following Apple's example and think in terms
of the novice user when designing an interface. It's that simple.
> Give me your best estimated time.
When the above realization finally sinks in. Also, the real push for a
mainstream Linux desktop will come from the business sector wanting less
expensive alternatives to Microsoft, not from the home market.
> I need a laugh....
Me too. My life has been very complicated lately :(
Andrew Preater
> But that is the non official Mandrake
Um, it was downloaded from an FTP mirror of Mandrake's download site, and
burned to CDs by the company I bought it from. There is nothing wrong or
immoral about this, and it _is_ the "official" Mandrake distribution.
> Now the agenda has changed because of this OSS model where people flat
> out refuse to pay for software.
I didn't buy the Mandrake "Powerpack" because I can't afford it. After this
(academic) year I will have more money, so I'll happily join the Mandrake
Club or buy a boxed set of the distribution. There is no reason why I
should _have_ to do this, though, I will do it out of CHOICE.
Peter Köhlmann
> Why do you think I am the forger ?
>
Lets start guessing -- because you forge postings of cola-residents with
sexual content any 9 year old would be ashamed of because its so childish?
Sure, you will deny it and demand proof. Well, you guessed it -- fuck off
Peter
--
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change,
the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the
bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
Mike.
<f4u4cuool83lt0nor...@4ax.com>
> PS I see that Linux seems to be slowly matching Windows feature for
> feature though. Why ?
I see that Windows seems to be slowly trying to match UNIX feature for
feature though. Why?
--
Mike.
Peter Köhlmann
> On Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:53:11 +0200, Peter Köhlmann
> <Peter.K...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>>>>Hi, forger, when do you think you will grow your brain (all 2 cells)?
>>>
>>> Why do you think I am the forger ?
>>>
>>
>>Lets start guessing -- because you forge postings of cola-residents with
>>sexual content any 9 year old would be ashamed of because its so childish?
>>Sure, you will deny it and demand proof. Well, you guessed it -- fuck off
>
> I don't need to forge anything to call you a fuckwit.
>
> You are a fuckwit.
>
> See it's easy.
>
Well, at least you did not deny forging headers to "impersonate" other cola
posters. And fell free to call me anything you want. You see, from someone
as incredibly stupid as you are it just does not matter. It is of no
importance whatsoever