Install new printer: Linux vs Windows - Part 2
Homer
setting this up under Linux vs Windows here on COLA:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/539fc659c93b691c?hl=en
Since then my location (and network) has changed, and the printer is
no longer connected over Ethernet (cabling issues).
Here's the process involved in connecting this printer via USB, then
using it under Linux:
Step 1. Connect printer to PC using USB cable.
Done.
The same process under Windows is somewhat more painful (as shown in
the previous post), in fact it's the same headache regardless of how
the printer's connected.
Now it's been set up like this for a while without problems, however
sharing this printer only works while my laptop is actually switched
on, since it's required to act as the print server in the absence of
a direct connection to the network for the printer. This is normal -
a pain, but normal.
I was aware of at least two accessories for this printer - a duplex,
and a bluetooth adaptor. I bought the duplex a few weeks ago but I'd
never considered the bluetooth adaptor necessary ... until now.
Whilst helping my sister with her broken laptop (her keyboard broke)
I discovered a no-name bluetooth adaptor in her bag-o-bits, and that
prompted me to actually try this connection method.
I plugged the bluetooth adaptor into the printer and checked Gnome's
bluetooth manager for new devices. Sure enough, there was a "Deskjet
6940 Series", along with someone's mobile phone (no idea). So then I
started the system-config-printer (I could have used the CUPS Web UI
instead, but whatever), and went through exactly the same steps that
I described in the previous post, with the single exception that the
protocol used is now bluetooth instead of JetDirect (the printer was
even shown in the panel as "Deskjet 6940 Series Bluetooth", with the
URI "bluetooth://000EE7500B32").
Done.
Obviously I'm doing something wrong, since this isn't supposed to be
easy under Linux, or even work at all (according to the Vole's hired
propagandists in COLA).
Now let's try that again, this time under Windows.
As we've already seen, Windows takes what should be a trivially easy
task, and turns it into a nightmare, but once you add the complexity
of bluetooth, that nightmare becomes a horror show.
In a nutshell, it doesn't work. Or at least for most people, it is a
near certainty that they'll never /get/ it to work because the steps
involved are far more than Average Joe could handle.
The first clue that something was awry, was the fact that the applet
for "Bluetooth Devices" on the taskbar failed to show the printer in
the list (produced when you select "Show Bluetooth Devices") despite
the fact that it had shown up a few minutes earlier under Linux.
So I thought I'd try using the "Add" button to goad XP into actually
finding the device. I checked the box "My device is set up and ready
to be found"; clicked "Next"; then waited as the animated flashlight
swept back and forth. Finally the "Deskjet 6940 series" blinked into
life, and I clicked "Next" to complete the setup. So far so painful,
but the coup de grâce was what happened next:
"Bluetooth Service Error: Access is Denied"
That's a new one.
My first reaction was that there must be a passkey, but Linux worked
without one, so why wouldn't Windows, and anyway, shouldn't there be
a prompt for the passkey if there /is/ one?
Some Googling later...
The Vole seems to think the "Windows security database is corrupted"
because I have an "Atheros wireless local area network (LAN) adaptor
installed", and they suggest I try the following cryptic solution:
[quote]
1. Click Start, click Run, type cmd, and then click OK.
2. At the command prompt, type
esentutl /g %windir%\security\database\secedit.sdb
...
If the Windows security database is corrupted, the output will contain
the following line:
This operation may find that this database is corrupt.
[/quote]
Eh?
[quote]
To work around this problem, follow these steps:
1. If both the Edb.log file and the Edb.chk file are in the
%windir%\security directory, follow these steps to repair the
security database:
1. Click Start, click Run, type cmd, and then click OK.
2. At the command prompt, type
esentutl /r edb /l %windir%\security /s %windir%\security
2. If either the Edb.log file or the Edb.chk file is in the
C:\WINDOWS\security directory, or if neither file exists in the
directory, follow these steps to repair the security database:
1. Click Start, click Run, type cmd, and then click OK.
2. At the command prompt, type
esentutl /p %windir%\security\Database\secedit.sdb
3. Click OK when you receive the following message:
You should only run Repair on damaged or corrupted
databases. Repair will not apply information in the
transaction log files on the database, and may cause
information to be lost. Do you wish to proceed?
3. After you repair the security database, follow these steps to
modify the registry so that you can access the registry key that
is required to configure the Bluetooth device:
1. Create the C:\bt.inf file that has the following text.
[version]
signature="$CHICAGO$"
revision=1
DriverVer=07/01/2001,5.1.2600.1106
[Registry Keys]
"MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\BTHPORT",0,"D:AR(A;CI;GRGW;;;PU)(A;CI;GRGW;;;LS)"
2. Click Start, click Run, type cmd, and then click OK.
3. At the command prompt, type
secedit /configure /cfg C:\bt.inf /db C:\bt.sdb
4. Delete the C:\bt.inf file and the C:\bt.sdb file.
[/quote]
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/892891
With printing and bluetooth support this "easy", it's a wonder anyone
uses Linux at all. What was I thinking? Oh, but it gets even "easier"
with the next step, as it seems the Vole's "solution" didn't actually
solve the problem at all.
Right down at the bottom of this KB article, I noticed this juicy bit
of information:
[quote]
Note Before you follow the steps that are outlined in this article,
verify that the Bluetooth Support service has been started and that the
Bluetooth Support service is configured to use the local administrator
account.
[/quote]
Shouldn't a "before you start" warning appear at the /start/ of this KB
article? Well that's Vole logic for you I guess.
At this point I think Joe Average would definitely give up, assuming he
even made it that far. But I soldiered on, determined to slay the beast
that is Microsoft's b0rken Slopware.
For those who don't know about such things, which probably includes the
entire population of Joe Average Windummies, the true root on a Windows
system is actually a user called "SYSTEM", and that other account which
most people assume is root ("Administrator") is not, but is actually an
intermediate between root and limited user, presumably because the Vole
never really understood how to implement a proper multi-user system.
Case in point: It turns out that "SYSTEM" is the owner of the task that
provides the bluetooth service under Windows (rightly so), but for some
unfathomable reason this then means that it's unable to configure; find
or do anything much at all with certain types of bluetooth devices, and
the only "solution" is to reassign that task to a more limited user, in
this case "Administrator". How idiotic ... and insecure, not to mention
rather perplexing for Joe Average.
Unlike Joe Average, I am familiar with the Services MMC and the Windows
Registry, so I finally managed to get bluetooth printing working, after
changing the owner of Bluetooth Service to Administrator and restarting
the service.
In summary:
Linux:
Total time: 15 seconds.
Total software installed: zero.
Windows:
Total time:
Me: About 2 hours of research; trial and error; and reboots.
Joe Average: Inapplicable, since he'd probably just give up.
Total software installed: 450MB (if starting from scratch).
It's official: Windows printing is rapidly shaping up to be even worse
than Windows networking, and that really is saying something. The good
news is the solution is free ... and trivially easy - install Linux.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
| the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
| weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
01:50:54 up 42 days, 9:33, 4 users, load average: 0.12, 0.07, 0.02
JEDIDIAH
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:51:18 +0000, Homer wrote:
>
>> I bought a HP 6940 Deskjet some time ago. I described the process of
>> setting this up under Linux vs Windows here on COLA:
>
> was complete opposite.
> Windows, plug it in and insert CD when asked because this is a very new
> printer model.
> Done.
>
>
> Linux?
> Plug it in, CUPS comes to life and their is a listing for it.
> Select it and try and print a test page.
> Doesn't work.
> No error but the printer queue just holds the job.
>
> Do some research, which I was not surprised at and find that it's a PITA to
> make this printer work (HP P1006 Laser) with Linux even though it actually
> says supported by Linux on the box!!
Why such a dinosaur.
I would think that someone like you that likes to taunt others with
their unwillingess to live large would at least bother with something
that comes with color.
Black & White laser printers are so... 80s. <snicker>
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=p1006%2Blinux%2Bubuntu&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-printer/+bug/246475
>
> Long story, the ppd file included with CUPS is broken and if that were not
> bad enough USB has a problem with Hot plugging and firmware downloading so
> I had to update that with Ubuntu 8.04 as well.
Never had that problem under any of my Debian versions or the various
Ubuntu versions preceeding and including 8.04. Although I've never bothered
with this particular printer.
>
> It finally worked.
>
> In fairness, I have seen Linux, usually HP printers FWIW, simply work and
> Windows have problems especially when moving USB ports around so it does go
> both ways.
>
> My Samsung worked great under Linux but is now printing light and ghosting
> and I can't seem to fix it or find decent information on the net about it.
"printing light" you say...
Now the current 2 HP printers I am responsible for (including a C4280)
work quite well in Linux while giving XP and Vista fits. Vista refuses to trea
the C4280 as a network printer. It insists on trying to treat it as if it
were directly attached (rather than in the next room).
The other one, some random legacy printer that happened to by lingering
around past a box upgrade also refused to install seamlessly under Windows.
Vista here didn't auto-install the printer. The driver options at HP.com were
not clear at all and the right driverpack tends to throw errors. It works well
enough if you are stubborn enough and not skittish.
Although it's not something I would recommend for a non-unix-using
Windows user.
Then there is that Brother CIFS printer. It turned out that it was
simpler to run it through CUPS than to have the XP/Vista machines try
to connect to it directly.
--
If you are going to judge Linux based on how easy
it is to get onto a Macintosh. Let's try installing |||
MacOS X on a DELL! / | \
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JEDIDIAH
>
>> On 2008-12-18, Gary M. Stewart <gmstew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:51:18 +0000, Homer wrote:
>>>
>>>> I bought a HP 6940 Deskjet some time ago. I described the process of
>>>> setting this up under Linux vs Windows here on COLA:
>>>
>>> Maybe it's HP going downhill on their later models however my experience
>>> was complete opposite.
>>> Windows, plug it in and insert CD when asked because this is a very new
>>> printer model.
>>> Done.
>>>
>>>
>>> Linux?
>>> Plug it in, CUPS comes to life and their is a listing for it.
>>> Select it and try and print a test page.
>>> Doesn't work.
>>> No error but the printer queue just holds the job.
>>>
>>> Do some research, which I was not surprised at and find that it's a PITA to
>>> make this printer work (HP P1006 Laser) with Linux even though it actually
>>> says supported by Linux on the box!!
>>
>> Why such a dinosaur.
>
> You need to get out more.
I am sure you can get brand new vt100 terminals too.
>
>> I would think that someone like you that likes to taunt others with
>> their unwillingess to live large would at least bother with something
>> that comes with color.
>
> Why?
> It's cheaper to have whatever I need in color done at the local OfficeMax.
>
>> Black & White laser printers are so... 80s. <snicker>
>
> Oh, you are jesting.
I am not jesting.
My platform at the time had one (a mono laser printer that is).
> Sorry, missed it.
>
>
>>>
>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=p1006%2Blinux%2Bubuntu&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
>>>
>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-printer/+bug/246475
>>>
>>> Long story, the ppd file included with CUPS is broken and if that were not
>>> bad enough USB has a problem with Hot plugging and firmware downloading so
>>> I had to update that with Ubuntu 8.04 as well.
>>
>> Never had that problem under any of my Debian versions or the various
>> Ubuntu versions preceeding and including 8.04. Although I've never bothered
>> with this particular printer.
>
> And there ends the discussion.
...except it doesn't just end there.
[deletia]
You conveniently deleted the problems Vista had with two HP printers
and another Brother network printer.
...as if Linux were the only platform that ever had a driver problem.
--
The average IT manager is a less effective mentor than a
Spongebob Squarepants cartoon.
7
> I bought a HP 6940 Deskjet some time ago. I described the process of
> setting this up under Linux vs Windows here on COLA:
>
> http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy
msg/539fc659c93b691c?hl=en
>
> Since then my location (and network) has changed, and the printer is
> no longer connected over Ethernet (cabling issues).
>
> Here's the process involved in connecting this printer via USB, then
> using it under Linux:
>
> Step 1. Connect printer to PC using USB cable.
>
> Done.
Amen to that!!
That pretty much summarizes my experience.
Just connect and print!!
No need for drivers or any other crapola.
(Samsung ML-1610 under Ubuntu).
Even networking printing required less than 5 minutes.
Just scan, point, click and that was it.
Wrong tray - select right tray and the job was done!
Micoshaft asstroturfers peddling ignorance will
try to sell you otherwise.
Richard Rasker
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:51:18 +0000, Homer wrote:
>
>> I bought a HP 6940 Deskjet some time ago. I described the process of
>> setting this up under Linux vs Windows here on COLA:
>
> Maybe it's HP going downhill on their later models however my experience
> was complete opposite.
> Windows, plug it in and insert CD when asked because this is a very new
> printer model.
> Done.
>
>
> Linux?
> Plug it in, CUPS comes to life and their is a listing for it.
> Select it and try and print a test page.
> Doesn't work.
> No error but the printer queue just holds the job.
Not quite my experience. I just repaired an HP Photosmart 2575 all-in-one
USB printer/scanner/copier. Plugged it in, and immediately Mandriva found
it and asked me if I wanted to install and configure it:
http://www.linetec.nl/linux/printerinstall1.png
I clicked OK, after which all software was downloaded automatically -- and
not just the printing software, but also the scanning software:
http://www.linetec.nl/linux/printerinstall2.png
And even an HP Device Manager was downloaded and installed:
http://www.linetec.nl/linux/printerinstall3.png
Summarized: to install a printer in Linux, plug in printer and click OK. And
That's it.
The device functions flawlessly (both printing and scanning) without any
hassle whatsoever, as did all printers and the vast majority of scanners my
users installed in recent times.
Linux is most certainly learning to play the userfriendliness game very
well, and very fast.
Sure, there will always be hardware which isn't supported as perfectly as
this -- but the same goes for Windows too. For instance, DFS still hasn't
found the BCM4315 wireless drivers for XP he said should be very easy to
locate. And I won't even begin about finding drivers for much older
hardware -- with Windows, it can be a true Odyssey. With Linux, it simply
works with one click.
Richard Rasker
--
http://www.linetec.nl
The Lost Packet
Brother HL-1030 mono laser in Postscript* mode and Brother DCP-130C PSC
using the protocol driver from Brother's support site, I can print in
mono through the laser, colour through the PSC and scan at
28800iDPI/12800rDPI through same. In Linux.
*LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
Gave up trying to get the bundled drivers for /either/ to work in
Windows XP, never mind getting them working over the network (which in
SuSE was a piece of cake - share, link and then sit back n have coffee).
--
TLP
- Last night I played a blank tape at full volume. The mime next door
went nuts.
- No, I will not fix your computer.
The Lost Packet
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>
>
>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>
why, thank you. Just waiting on my check from Novell now...
The Lost Packet
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:35:52 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>
>> Gary M. Stewart wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>> You sound like the perfect Linux fanboi.
>> why, thank you. Just waiting on my check from Novell now...
>
indeed. I just installed OpenSuSE 10.3 on my iBook G4 and now can't wait
to get 11.1 downloaded. The default Novell skin on the KDE desktop is
gorgeous. Pretty nippy as well, considering it's a 1.3GHz processor with
only 256MB of memory (though I might yet bump that up to 768MB... may
have to, going by the enhancements that come with KDE4).
Erik Funkenbusch
> It's official: Windows printing is rapidly shaping up to be even worse
> than Windows networking, and that really is saying something. The good
> news is the solution is free ... and trivially easy - install Linux.
I'll be the first to admit that Windows bluetooth support isn't that great.
This problem was a bluetooth problem, not a Windows printing problem.
Changing the print device is simply a matter of going into the printer
driver and changing the port. I've done it a million times. Never had an
issue, but then i've never used bluetooth printing.
Of course your ignorance, despite your claimed expertise, is shown by the
simple fact that you don't understand the difference between a printing
subsystem and a network device subsystem.
By the way, Bluetooth has a range of about 30 feet max. If your'e seeing
strange devices show up in there, i'd be pretty concerned.
The Lost Packet
try 300 feet, Erik.
The Lost Packet
> Especially if you happen to have multiple units around.
>
> For example, my Crackberry, Cellphone and GPS are all Bluetooth capable as
> well as my earpiece for either the cell or Crackberry.
>
> Sometimes things just get lost and devices disappear and re-appear for no
> good reason.
I've got Bluetooth all over the place. Most annoying thing I find is
that the microwave oven knocks out the BT210 headset I use for my
cellphones. Another niggler is that my wife's Nokia won't connect to any
other device in the house apart from my V3i. She even splashed out on a
pug-ugly Jabra headset to use, even that won't connect (although I can
use it as a media headset on my Sagem phone - not that I'd want to, it
looks like some weird mutant evil thing growing out of one's ear). All
my BT-equipped laptops connect very readily to whatever I direct them
to, and my DVR has a Dell BT keyboard that I've not managed to find the
maximum practical range on yet...
The Lost Packet
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:51:18 +0000, Homer wrote:
>>
>>> It's official: Windows printing is rapidly shaping up to be even worse
>>> than Windows networking, and that really is saying something. The good
>>> news is the solution is free ... and trivially easy - install Linux.
>>
>> I'll be the first to admit that Windows bluetooth support isn't that
>> great.
>> This problem was a bluetooth problem, not a Windows printing problem.
>>
>> Changing the print device is simply a matter of going into the printer
>> driver and changing the port. I've done it a million times. Never
>> had an
>> issue, but then i've never used bluetooth printing.
>>
>> Of course your ignorance, despite your claimed expertise, is shown by the
>> simple fact that you don't understand the difference between a printing
>> subsystem and a network device subsystem.
>>
>> By the way, Bluetooth has a range of about 30 feet max. If your'e seeing
>> strange devices show up in there, i'd be pretty concerned.
>
> try 300 feet, Erik.
>
I'll justify that by saying that it works both ways - both connecting
devices need to be BT 2.0 compliant and enabled, giving a maximum
perfect-conditions range of 330 feet. Practically speaking, and given
two BT2.0 devices, you'd be looking at 150 feet in open air, or easily
from one end of an urban semi-detached house to the other.
Peter Köhlmann
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:51:18 +0000, Homer wrote:
>
>> It's official: Windows printing is rapidly shaping up to be even worse
>> than Windows networking, and that really is saying something. The good
>> news is the solution is free ... and trivially easy - install Linux.
>
> I'll be the first to admit that Windows bluetooth support isn't that
> great. This problem was a bluetooth problem, not a Windows printing
> problem.
>
Since printers are often connnected via bluetooth these days, users trying
to hook up their *printer* might disagree.
They tend to not make those fine distinctions, and frankly, they should not
need to
--
If they were committed to Linux, they'd be developing exclusively for
Linux. - Funkenbusch 17 Oct 2006
Erik Funkenbusch
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:51:18 +0000, Homer wrote:
>>
>>> It's official: Windows printing is rapidly shaping up to be even worse
>>> than Windows networking, and that really is saying something. The good
>>> news is the solution is free ... and trivially easy - install Linux.
>>
>> I'll be the first to admit that Windows bluetooth support isn't that
>> great. This problem was a bluetooth problem, not a Windows printing
>> problem.
>>
>
> Since printers are often connnected via bluetooth these days, users trying
> to hook up their *printer* might disagree.
> They tend to not make those fine distinctions, and frankly, they should not
> need to
Yet you're one of the first to whinge about how a problem in some subsystem
of a Linux distro is not a Linux problem because it has nothing to do with
the kernel.
Funny how you don't want to make such distinctions when it doesn't appeal
to your argument.
Erik Funkenbusch
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:51:18 +0000, Homer wrote:
>>
>>> It's official: Windows printing is rapidly shaping up to be even worse
>>> than Windows networking, and that really is saying something. The good
>>> news is the solution is free ... and trivially easy - install Linux.
>>
>> I'll be the first to admit that Windows bluetooth support isn't that great.
>> This problem was a bluetooth problem, not a Windows printing problem.
>>
>> Changing the print device is simply a matter of going into the printer
>> driver and changing the port. I've done it a million times. Never had an
>> issue, but then i've never used bluetooth printing.
>>
>> Of course your ignorance, despite your claimed expertise, is shown by the
>> simple fact that you don't understand the difference between a printing
>> subsystem and a network device subsystem.
>>
>> By the way, Bluetooth has a range of about 30 feet max. If your'e seeing
>> strange devices show up in there, i'd be pretty concerned.
>
> try 300 feet, Erik.
Not for most bluetooth devices. There's something called "High Power"
bluetooth, but i've yet to see one anywhere. Certainly no headset or
keyboard i've used has supported this. I can barely walk 10 feet from
phone before i start getting choppy sound.
I'm not saying they don't exist, but he was referring to a strance cell
phone, and cell phones are not high power in any phone i've seen.
Peter Köhlmann
You might actually try to find such a post from me, instead of simply
fabulating some bullshit. I have never even /hinted/ as much, and you
should be ashamed to fall to such lows as usually done by flatfish, Hadron
Quark or Snot Glasser
> Funny how you don't want to make such distinctions when it doesn't appeal
> to your argument.
Funny how you make up your "arguments" out of full cloth
--
Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a way of life.
JEDIDIAH
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:43:42 -0600, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
>
>> You conveniently deleted the problems Vista had with two HP printers
>> and another Brother network printer.
>>
>> ...as if Linux were the only platform that ever had a driver problem.
>
> said sometimes it happens the other way.
Then your entire thread is moot.
You're about as evenhanded as a rampaging mongol horde.
--
OpenDoc is moot when Apple is your one stop iShop. |||
/ | \
Ezekiel
"Peter Köhlmann" <peter.k...@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:494b66dc$0$31331$9b4e...@newsspool4.arcor-online.net...
Why even bother trying. No matter what posts or proof he shows it'll simply
turn into a bunch of squirming, word-twisting and denial. Look at the "The
PS3 is dying. Called a 'sinking ship' while Sony loses BILLION$$$ " thread
as an example. It's damn obvious that Kent, Schestowitz and etc. were
predicting that lots of people were going to use the PS3 running Linux as a
desktop replacement. Yet denial, spinning words and twisting the truth
prevails and some people dishonestly take the position that no such claims
were ever made.
The same thing will happen here. No matter what is shown or provided you or
someone will twist the posts and deny what was once said.
Peter Köhlmann
He should first provide *any* proof. I say Erik Funkenbusch is a dishonest
POS, a liar and a fraud. A typical wintroll swine. Putting words in
peoples mouth is about as low as it could get
> Look at
> the "The PS3 is dying. Called a 'sinking ship' while Sony loses
> BILLION$$$ " thread as an example. It's damn obvious that Kent,
> Schestowitz and etc. were predicting that lots of people were going to
> use the PS3 running Linux as a desktop replacement. Yet denial, spinning
> words and twisting the truth prevails and some people dishonestly take
> the position that no such claims were ever made.
You might try to explain what *that* has to do with Erik Funkenbusch making
up what I said?
And he *is* making it up. Like you guys usually do. There is nothing as
dishonest (with the *one* exception Snot Michael Glasser) as you wintendo
fanbois here in COLA
> The same thing will happen here. No matter what is shown or provided you
> or someone will twist the posts and deny what was once said.
Good that you have psychic powers and know in advance what will happen.
You wintendo guys really need that, to know not to visit those many
malicious sites *before* clicking on those pesky links
--
Try to be the best of whatever you are, even if what you are is
no good.
Snit
494b66dc$0$31331$9b4e...@newsspool4.arcor-online.net on 12/19/08 2:18 AM:
You sure beg for my attention a lot.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing. - Unknown
Snit
You sure beg for my attention a lot.
--
I am one of only .3% of people who have avoided becoming a statistic.
Homer
> The Lost Packet wrote:
>> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:51:18 +0000, Homer wrote:
>>>> It's official: Windows printing is rapidly shaping up to be
>>>> even worse than Windows networking, and that really is saying
>>>> something. The good news is the solution is free ... and
>>>> trivially easy - install Linux.
>>>
>>> I'll be the first to admit that Windows bluetooth support isn't
>>> that great. This problem was a bluetooth problem, not a Windows
>>> printing problem.
The task at hand was to print. The means by which that happens is quite
irrelevant to the fact that the task was made difficult by the broken
behaviour of another subsystem. So it's quite true that I had a
"printing problem" /because/ I had a "bluetooth problem". I think I made
that quite clear, and your hair-splitting achieves nothing but make you
look like you're making excuses for Microsoft's Slopware.
>>> Changing the print device is simply a matter of going into the
>>> printer driver and changing the port.
Except that bluetooth port was not shown in the list of available ports
until /after/ I ran the wizard to manually add a new bluetooth device,
and even then that didn't help, because the bluetooth services had not
been properly configured by Windows to run under the right account.
>>> I've done it a million times.
Why would you need to, if Windows is Plug 'n Play? Are you saying that
Windows can't enumerate hardware properly now? I knew Windows' device
enumeration was badly broken, but not to the extent that you'd need to
manually mess around with ports "a million times". Thanks for the
confession though.
>>> Of course your ignorance
Your pedantic interpretation is ignorant, Erik, not my assertion.
>>> By the way, Bluetooth has a range of about 30 feet max. If
>>> your'e seeing strange devices show up in there, i'd be pretty
>>> concerned.
>>
>> try 300 feet, Erik.
And Fuddie has the nerve to accuse others of ignorance. That's pretty
rich coming from someone who thinks "you can't take the output of ssh
and use it in your shell".
> or easily from one end of an urban semi-detached house to the other.
Or from the flat next door, a few inches through the wall behind my laptop.
Fuddie has all the deductive powers of a lump of cheese.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "At the time, I thought C was the most elegant language and Java
| the most practical one. That point of view lasted for maybe two
| weeks after initial exposure to Lisp." ~ Constantine Vetoshev
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
19:04:14 up 44 days, 2:47, 4 users, load average: 0.21, 0.22, 0.18
Terry Porter
> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
--
If we wish to reduce our ignorance, there are people we will
indeed listen to. Trolls are not among those people, as trolls, more or
less by definition, *promote* ignorance.
Kelsey Bjarnason, C.O.L.A. 2008
Terry Porter
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:51:18 +0000, Homer wrote:
>
>> It's official: Windows printing is rapidly shaping up to be even worse
>> than Windows networking, and that really is saying something. The good
>> news is the solution is free ... and trivially easy - install Linux.
>
> Of course your ignorance, despite your claimed expertise, is shown by
> the simple fact that you don't understand the difference between a
> printing subsystem and a network device subsystem.
ERIK!
What are you doing on COLA attempting to argue with experienced Linux
advocates ???
You were under strict instructions to go away and actually learn
something about Linux, that way we wouldn't have to bother reading your
ignorance laden posts for another decade or so.
Nigel Feltham
>>> My Samsung worked great under Linux but is now printing light and
>>> ghosting and I can't seem to fix it or find decent information on the
>>> net about it.
>>
>> "printing light" you say...
>
> Yep. And ghosting, at the drum level not just during transfer to paper.
> It's a charging problem, not the engine and not the transfer roller
> because I already swapped them with another known good printer.
>
> It's something electrical, most likely the HV supply.
The HV Supply PCB is usually fairly reliable on laser printers - more likely
to be caused by either the contacts between this PCB and the drum (contacts
needing a wipe with a cloth dipped in solvent cleaner or rub with a pencil
eraser) or dirty lenses on the laser scanning assembly blocking the light
getting to the drum (requiring disassembly and cleaning with camera lens
tissue).
If print is still sharp and background white then it's usually a voltage
problem, if slightly fuzzy or background is grey this can indicate optical
problems. The ghosting you're getting could be an indication that the fault
is optical (dust on the lenses spreading the light).
Could also be configuration problems - any RET or density option set too
light or toner save mode enabled, or even just the toner running low or
needing a light shake (cartridges for some printers can also develop a
fault where the toner isn't being transferred from the reservoir to the
drum correctly, the only cure being a new toner cartridge).
Another common laser printer fault is traces of the image appearing as a
ghost image lower down the paper caused by low fuser temperature but if as
you say the image problems also show on the drum then this is not the
cause.
Have you tried a half way test - turn printer off during a print to catch it
with the paper still travelling across the drum, easiest with manual feed
tray if your printer has one as then the time to turn it off is just as
trailing edge enters the printer (just before on smaller printers). Then
you can remove the toner cartridge to see whether the poor image is only on
the paper or also in the untransferred image still on the drum.
Gregory Shearman
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>
>
>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>
> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>
Latex makes beautiful hard copy.
--
Regards,
Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power
Hadron
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>
>
>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>
> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
You're not ony a complete fool, it seems you are a helpless liar too.
Even a cursory familiarity with LaTEX would mean you would know that
it's a very, very finicky and picky language where a small hidden error
could cost a fortune in paper and ink.
Is LaTEX good and poweful? Of course. Is it for people unable to handle
even a WP tailored for thickies? Err, no.
Are you *ever* right about *anything*?
Oh, and, err, it's also got pretty much nothing to do with Linux other
than it runs on Linux as well as Windows.
--
"Maybe he knows where the body is because he saw where
it was put." -- "Rick" defending Hans Reiser (his hero) in comp.os.linux.advocacy
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
> On 2008-12-19, Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>
>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>
>> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>
> Latex makes beautiful hard copy.
And I'll bet it is easy to do mail-merge with it.
--
What!? Me worry?
-- Alfred E. Newman
Hadron
Chris Ahlstrom <lin...@bollsouth.nut> writes:
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Gregory Shearman belched out this bit o'
> wisdom:
>
>> On 2008-12-19, Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>>
>>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>>
>>> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>>
>> Latex makes beautiful hard copy.
All down to the back ends as usual.
>
> And I'll bet it is easy to do mail-merge with it.
No easier or harder than any other text based mark up language. The
difference being you have to do it yourself as opposed to having it
automated as in office.
You need to use PHP or similar to churn out the laTEX from templates
and databased.
Not for the amateur.
--
"Unfortunately, once again, the user-unfriendly dirtware sucks so bad it's
hard to prove how bad it sucks."
-- "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> in comp.os.linux.advocacy
Peter Köhlmann
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:31:57 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom <lin...@bollsouth.nut> writes:
>>
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Gregory Shearman belched out this bit o'
>>> wisdom:
>>>
>>>> On 2008-12-19, Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>>>>
>>>> Latex makes beautiful hard copy.
>>
>> All down to the back ends as usual.
>>
>>>
>>> And I'll bet it is easy to do mail-merge with it.
>>
>> No easier or harder than any other text based mark up language. The
>> difference being you have to do it yourself as opposed to having it
>> automated as in office.
>>
>> You need to use PHP or similar to churn out the laTEX from templates
>> and databased.
>>
>> Not for the amateur.
>
> Exactly.
> LaTeX is more of a typsetting program rather than a "word processor".
> Not for the beginner at all and for Porter to make a statement like he
> did proves that he has never used LaTeX.
>
> It's a great program for what it does, however.....
You and your ass-buddy Hadron Quark, the "kernel hacker" and "tripwire
wizard" have obviously never seen tools like "kile".
But that is normal since it does not exist for windows, just like a lot of
the best OSS software is not available for that toy OS
--
Warning: You have moved the mouse.
Windows will reboot now to make the change permanent
Hadron
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:31:57 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom <lin...@bollsouth.nut> writes:
>>
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Gregory Shearman belched out this bit o'
>>> wisdom:
>>>
>>>> On 2008-12-19, Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>>>>
>>>> Latex makes beautiful hard copy.
>>
>> All down to the back ends as usual.
>>
>>>
>>> And I'll bet it is easy to do mail-merge with it.
>>
>> No easier or harder than any other text based mark up language. The
>> difference being you have to do it yourself as opposed to having it
>> automated as in office.
>>
>> You need to use PHP or similar to churn out the laTEX from templates
>> and databased.
>>
>> Not for the amateur.
>
> Exactly.
> LaTeX is more of a typsetting program rather than a "word processor".
> Not for the beginner at all and for Porter to make a statement like he did
> proves that he has never used LaTeX.
>
> It's a great program for what it does, however.....
With Porter and Liarnut swinging off his lad with his jaw clamped down,
COLA is becoming more and more ridiculous.
Easy to do a mail merge with it! Clueless.
--
"Must be the heat. Causing sunstroke and mildly parboiling the brain.
It always seems to be the hot countries/states that suffer from religious
extremism, after all."
-- Andrew Halliwell <spi...@ponder.sky.com> in comp.os.linux.advocacy
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
> Gary M. Stewart wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:31:57 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>>
>>> Chris Ahlstrom <lin...@bollsouth.nut> writes:
>>>
>>>>> On 2008-12-19, Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Latex makes beautiful hard copy.
>>>
>>> All down to the back ends as usual.
Nonsense. The whole cycle (text, macros, dvi-generator, print-generator)
is necessary.
>>>> And I'll bet it is easy to do mail-merge with it.
>>>
>>> No easier or harder than any other text based mark up language. The
>>> difference being you have to do it yourself as opposed to having it
>>> automated as in office.
>>>
>>> You need to use PHP or similar to churn out the laTEX from templates
>>> and databased.
>>>
>>> Not for the amateur.
Did I say that? (But sed and a short bash script would be quite
sufficient.)
Anyway, I was surprised not to see an obvious easy package out there for
LaTex. Since mail-merges is decades old, I think I simply have overlooked
something.
Why?
Because I was doing mail-merge with RUNOFF on DEC machines circa 1980.
My bet it is that anyone who uses LaTeX just djinns up a quick script to do
mail-merge. That's what I'd do, anyway.
>> Exactly.
>> LaTeX is more of a typsetting program rather than a "word processor".
>> Not for the beginner at all and for Porter to make a statement like he
>> did proves that he has never used LaTeX.
>>
>> It's a great program for what it does, however.....
>
> You and your ass-buddy Hadron Quark, the "kernel hacker" and "tripwire
> wizard" have obviously never seen tools like "kile".
Or LyX.
> But that is normal since it does not exist for windows, just like a lot of
> the best OSS software is not available for that toy OS
You can get LaTeX for Windows (MikTeX is the name, I believe). Some of our
people use it as part of generating PDFs from Doxygenated source code for
our design document. (I use Linux for doing that, myself. The less Windows
I use, the better I like it.)
--
The best executive is one who has sense enough to pick good people to do
what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with
them while they do it.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
Hadron
I clearly know a LOT more about tripwire than you if you deny it is very
good for detecting intrusions and resultant file modifications.
> But that is normal since it does not exist for windows, just like a lot of
> the best OSS software is not available for that toy OS
Why are you talking about kile (KDE front end) and what is an "ass
buddy"? Is it something that wash every morning when you pull it out of
your crack Peter?
--
"What's wrong, (p)Rick? Were you defending the innocence of Hans "The
Linux Butcher" Reiser, and now that he's about to give up the body
you're embarrassed at being an idiot?"
Peter Köhlmann
I deny it is *any* good for the kind of malware you have put up as example
in the very post you mentioned tripwire. For *that* kind of malware
tripwire will help you exactly *not* *at* *all*
And if you knew even a tiny little bit about tripwire, you would know why.
I also note that you *again* grossly misrepresent what took place in that
thread. Can't you do a single post now and then without outright lying?
>> But that is normal since it does not exist for windows, just like a lot
>> of the best OSS software is not available for that toy OS
>
> Why are you talking about kile (KDE front end) and what is an "ass
> buddy"? Is it something that wash every morning when you pull it out of
> your crack Peter?
>
I talk about kile because it makes using LaTex extremely easy. So easy that
even dimbulbs like you could hope to use it.
And, like many other very good OSS software, no windows version exists
--
Microsoft: which revised Eula do you want to accept today?
Peter Köhlmann
> This thread is not about kile.
> It's about LaTeX.
Fine. Now tell us what kile is.
Idiot
--
Another name for a Windows tutorial is crash course
The Lost Packet
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:31:57 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>
>>
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Gregory Shearman belched out this bit o'
>>> wisdom:
>>>
>>>> On 2008-12-19, Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>>>> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>>>> Latex makes beautiful hard copy.
>> All down to the back ends as usual.
>>
>>> And I'll bet it is easy to do mail-merge with it.
>> No easier or harder than any other text based mark up language. The
>> difference being you have to do it yourself as opposed to having it
>> automated as in office.
>>
>> You need to use PHP or similar to churn out the laTEX from templates
>> and databased.
>>
>> Not for the amateur.
>
> LaTeX is more of a typsetting program rather than a "word processor".
> Not for the beginner at all and for Porter to make a statement like he did
> proves that he has never used LaTeX.
>
> It's a great program for what it does, however.....
It's /the/ killer app for typesetting. In my humble opinion. vi would be
the killer app for wordprocessing (ie typing the shit in). Package apps
like Writer or Word are not "professionally" good enough for either.
Also my humble opinion. They're just there to simplify things by rolling
it all into one huge application with pretty buttons and that fucking
annoying paperclip/lightbulb/dog/whatever.
Oh, don't get me wrong, they're great for quick-n-dirty stuff like
rattling off angry letters to the local rag or complaints to the milk
union because they use foil lids that're too thin or whatever, or for
Hockey Mom helping Junior write thank-you notes to all his fans for all
the gifts he got at the victory party, but for real work like regional
or national newspapers where the format _cannot_ change, for /any/
reason, you need something that is as finely controllable as possible,
and postscripting is it.
Yes, there's a learning curve. That's why typesetters get paid a lot.
They know what they're doing, they /have/ to know what they're doing
otherwise things don't happen and they are the last stop before the
litho department that can cost a publishing house their livelihood and
reputation.
--
TLP
- Last night I played a blank tape at full volume. The mime next door
went nuts.
- No, I will not fix your computer.
Terry Porter
> Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>
>>
>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>
>> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>
> You're not ony a complete fool, it seems you are a helpless liar too.
Your sentence is foolish and incomplete, your fat pudgy wintroll fingers
have failed to press the "l" key properly. Try and pay attention next
time.
>
> Even a cursory familiarity with LaTEX would mean you would know that
> it's a very, very finicky and picky language where a small hidden error
> could cost a fortune in paper and ink.
You seem to know as much about LaTeX as you do about Linux.
>
> Is LaTEX good and poweful? Of course.
How would you know ?
> Is it for people unable to handle
> even a WP tailored for thickies? Err, no.
Which explains why you have no clue about LaTeX.
>
> Are you *ever* right about *anything*?
Lol, are you ?
>
> Oh, and, err, it's also got pretty much nothing to do with Linux other
> than it runs on Linux as well as Windows.
Wrong as always, little pudgy troll.
Many Linux distros come with LaTeX installed, Windows *NEVER*.
Get it yet ?
Terry Porter
> You need to use PHP
Or Perl, or Ruby Or Python or anything.
> or similar to churn out the laTEX from templates
> and databased.
At least you CAN.
LaTeX is another incredibly useful Linux tool.
>
> Not for the amateur.
Then I suggest you stick with wintoys, troll.
I'm less and less impressed with your knowledge of Linux matters
Hadrongo, and I'm downgrading you to the DFS level of (in) competence.
Imagine trying to build a Web based accounting system with Perl and
Apache and using MS WORD as the printing subsection, LOL!
Yet Sql-Ledger uses just Perl and Apache, with LaTeX for PS and PDF
generation, and works perfectly.
chrisv
>>
>> I clearly know a LOT more about tripwire than you if you deny it is
>> very good for detecting intrusions and resultant file modifications.
Translation for those of you who are not fluent in Fsckwit:
"Duuhhh... My name is 'Hadron' Quark. (Drool, giggle, wank.) I enjoy
making a jackass of myself on a daily basis. (Drool, giggle, wank.) You
are really stupid if you think that 2+2=5."
The thing is, Quack, no one claimed that 2+2=5. Very specific claims
were made, none of which was 2+2=5. You are a fscking idiot, a laughing-
stock, to anyone with a brain.
P.S. You suck.
Snit
Ya6dnZzQ25MoFNDU...@netspace.net.au on 12/20/08 5:11 PM:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:31:57 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>
>> You need to use PHP
>
> Or Perl, or Ruby Or Python or anything.
>
>> or similar to churn out the laTEX from templates
>> and databased.
You snipped his sentence in the middle to make it sound like he was saying
only PHP would do... which is dishonest of you.
> At least you CAN.
>
> LaTeX is another incredibly useful Linux tool.
It is no more a Linux tool than an OS X or Windows tool.
<http://www.latex-project.org/ftp.html>
It is available for all three.
>> Not for the amateur.
>
> Then I suggest you stick with wintoys, troll.
But you just suggested a tool that is available for Windows... now you say
not to use it. Weird.
> I'm less and less impressed with your knowledge of Linux matters
The fact you think LaTeX is a "Linux tool" and not a "wintoy" shows your
ignorance.
> Hadrongo, and I'm downgrading you to the DFS level of (in) competence.
You have no ability to downgrade his abilities... weird you would want to.
> Imagine trying to build a Web based accounting system with Perl and
> Apache and using MS WORD as the printing subsection, LOL!
Do you know anyone who has tried? Anyone who has suggested that as the
correct tool for the job?
> Yet Sql-Ledger uses just Perl and Apache, with LaTeX for PS and PDF
> generation, and works perfectly.
>
> http://www.sql-ledger.org/
Send them a cookie!
--
Never stand between a dog and the hydrant. - John Peers
DFS
> LaTeX is another incredibly useful Linux tool.
It's not a Linux tool, tool.
> I'm less and less impressed with your knowledge of Linux matters
> Hadrongo, and I'm downgrading you to the DFS level of (in) competence.
That's a laugh, Mr Advocate Who's Most Often Wrong
> Imagine trying to build a Web based accounting system with Perl and
> Apache and using MS WORD as the printing subsection, LOL!
Perl and MS Word automation was done 8+ years ago, bozo.
http://www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol5_3/tpj0503-0011.html
http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=01/03/07/030233
http://www.adp-gmbh.ch/perl/word.html
DFS
> He has got to be doing this on purpose.
> Nobody could be that naturally ignorant.
It must be somewhat liberating to be as unapologetically ignorant as Terry
Porter.
Gregory Shearman
Well, there's the textmerg package, but I prefer KOMA-Script and the
Address file format it uses. You have the tools to build the best
looking form letters... if that's your fancy.
Gregory Shearman
I've had a look at kile and I've used Lyx in the past but I always find
myself fapping around with the preamble or inserting raw code. I've gone
for using straight latex. It allows you to forget about formatting and
to concentrate on content.
You can write anything from technical journals to books and they'll all
be professionally typeset for you with the inclusion of a very few
commands in a text file.
Gregory Shearman
You have the textmerg package but I prefer KOMA-script and its address
file format. It's far more versatile. I've been using Latex for more
than a decade now. It was once not so easy to do a mail merge, but
that's because of the origins of latex as an academic
report/dissertation and technical manual generator rather than a
business oriented application. It has become more versatile over the
years.
Nigel Feltham
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:01:07 +0000, Nigel Feltham wrote:
>
>> Gary M. Stewart wrote:
>>
>>>>> My Samsung worked great under Linux but is now printing light and
>>>>> ghosting and I can't seem to fix it or find decent information on the
>>>>> net about it.
>>>>
>>>> "printing light" you say...
>>>
>>> Yep. And ghosting, at the drum level not just during transfer to paper.
>>> It's a charging problem, not the engine and not the transfer roller
>>> because I already swapped them with another known good printer.
>>>
>>> It's something electrical, most likely the HV supply.
>
> Hi Nigel!
>
>> The HV Supply PCB is usually fairly reliable on laser printers - more
>> likely to be caused by either the contacts between this PCB and the drum
>> (contacts needing a wipe with a cloth dipped in solvent cleaner or rub
>> with a pencil eraser) or dirty lenses on the laser scanning assembly
>> blocking the light getting to the drum (requiring disassembly and
>> cleaning with camera lens tissue).
>
> I did check the spring loaded contacts that connect to the engine etc and
> cleaned them off as well as verified that they made good contact.
> I also made sure no toner was spilled around that area.
>
> The camera lens / Laser I did not mess with as it is in the bottom of the
> printer and looks like they built the thing around it.
> I was wondering that one myself.
That explains it - dirty lenses are very common on printers with the laser
at the bottom as any dust and dirt in the printer will fall directly onto
the last mirror or lens (heavy duty business laser printers have the optics
at the top for this reason), I suggest trying to look through the slot with
a torch (may need to use a dentist type handheld inspection mirror) and
cleaning any visible optics with a cotton bud dipped in camera lens fluid
(if you cannot see anything a blast with compressed air can may help as a
last resort - however some dust sticks to optics so hard only cotton bud
cleaning will remove it).
Hadron
You have to be joking. I used vi years ago and it's a wonderful geek
editor which can do a lot. Emacs even has a submode to emulate it.As a
word processor? You seem to miss the point. It "processes" nothing.
> apps like Writer or Word are not "professionally" good enough for
> either. Also my humble opinion. They're just there to simplify things
> by rolling it all into one huge application with pretty buttons and
> that fucking annoying paperclip/lightbulb/dog/whatever.
Turn them off clueless. But the for the average user wysiwyg is there
for a reason.
>
> Oh, don't get me wrong, they're great for quick-n-dirty stuff like
> rattling off angry letters to the local rag or complaints to the milk
> union because they use foil lids that're too thin or whatever, or for
> Hockey Mom helping Junior write thank-you notes to all his fans for
> all the gifts he got at the victory party, but for real work like
> regional or national newspapers where the format _cannot_ change, for
> /any/ reason, you need something that is as finely controllable as
> possible, and postscripting is it.
All the big shot things you do? Sure.
>
> Yes, there's a learning curve. That's why typesetters get paid a
> lot. They know what they're doing, they /have/ to know what they're
> doing otherwise things don't happen and they are the last stop before
> the litho department that can cost a publishing house their livelihood
> and reputation.
My god. You make Jeb look modern.
--
- "Just think, consumers are not sold on XP, and Microsoft shelled out
some major $$$ to develop this thing. This is a great opportunity for
alternative operating systems to intercept the ball, and run it back for a
touchdown.": comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy
ml2mst
Is it me, or smells this a bit (flat)fishy?
I mean Flatfish treating an old COLA regular so nice is a contradiction
in itself. See:
http://linux.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.linux.misc/2004-01/2698.html
[quote]
Nigel Feltham - spanking trolls since 1999
[/quote]
No posting history since 2004 from Mr. Feltham and all of a sudden he
returns to COLA out of no where.
This *could* be a genuine message, but it's more likely that Flatfish is
talking to himself again.
And I'm talking to myself, talking to myself
I' my own radio, my own radio
MRS. Universe, Universal radio (Nina Hagen 1985)
--
|_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin
|_|_|0| http://ml2mst.googlepages.com
|0|0|0| http://osgeex.blogspot.com
Nigel Feltham
> Is it me, or smells this a bit (flat)fishy?
>
> I mean Flatfish treating an old COLA regular so nice is a contradiction
> in itself. See:
>
> http://linux.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.linux.misc/2004-01/2698.html
>
> [quote]
>
> Nigel Feltham - spanking trolls since 1999
>
> [/quote]
>
> No posting history since 2004 from Mr. Feltham and all of a sudden he
> returns to COLA out of no where.
>
> This *could* be a genuine message, but it's more likely that Flatfish is
> talking to himself again.
Nope - this is the real Mr Feltham, is it really 4 years since I last posted
on COLA? The reason I've not been posting so much is that I've had better
things to do than tease the COLA trolls and only nip in for the occasional
read now, however I still work in Computer repair and becoming an expert at
Laser printer repair (not so good at inkjets - not easy clearing blocked
jets) so offered my advice.
I may not share the same OS choice as Mr Flattie but I can at least offer
polite hardware repair advice - although only generic advice as not worked
on the model he has, I only normally get to work on larger business models
rather than the Home/Small business laser he/she appears to have (HP wise
I've only worked on 4000 series mono and 1600/2600 colour, we mostly do
Lexmark now - business seem to like them despite higher toner costs).
I'm not even in the same country as the flat one - I'm still based in
Bristol, England.
Maybe someone can return the favour - I've been asked by my father to
recommend a current model all in one printer with screen for my mother's
use, driver issues won't be a problem as it's likely to never be connected
to a PC (the reason for needing a screen - mum wants to edit and print her
own camera photos without needing to use a PC). So far the most suitable
one seems to be the HP C6280 but I'm open to better suggestions.
Dad's also looking for a replacement for his elderly Epson C60 and wants to
be able to print on CD's (this will be a separate printer to mum's one)
without costing a small fortune for ink - so far I have nothing suitable
(he's been looking at HP's C5280 but this uses combined ink and head so not
cheap to run). Again no driver issues - he's stuck on XP due to wanting to
do CAD work (another user that's hard to switch despite having several past
virus issues), although if someone can recommend a Linux friendly model
this would help future proofing his system (and allow use of knoppix for
printing whenever his main OS gets malwared).
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
> Gary M. Stewart wrote:
>
> snipped
>
> That explains it - dirty lenses are very common on printers with the laser
> at the bottom as any dust and dirt in the printer will fall directly onto
> the last mirror or lens (heavy duty business laser printers have the optics
> at the top for this reason), I suggest trying to look through the slot with
> a torch...
As an American, I can imagine Gary burning down his whole house because of
his understanding of the word "torch".
Oh well, there's always the insurance money.
--
America may be unique in being a country which has leapt from barbarism
to decadence without touching civilization.
-- John O'Hara
The Lost Packet
So, instead of rational debate you resort to personal attacks? Welcome
to my killfile. Jerk.
Gregory Shearman
Of course the insane troll is wrong here. Your text is processed by vi
and it is given a visual colour context according to the type of file
being operated on.
Vi has a steep learning curve. I suspect that the troll couldn't apply
itself to the task of learning this very powerful text editor.
>>> apps like Writer or Word are not "professionally" good enough for
>>> either. Also my humble opinion. They're just there to simplify things
>>> by rolling it all into one huge application with pretty buttons and
>>> that fucking annoying paperclip/lightbulb/dog/whatever.
>>
>> Turn them off clueless. But the for the average user wysiwyg is there
>> for a reason.
Because the normal wysiwyg word processor user likes to waste all their
time fapping about with the formatting of the text instead of
concentrating on what they are writing.
>> My god. You make Jeb look modern.
>
> So, instead of rational debate you resort to personal attacks? Welcome
> to my killfile. Jerk.
>
Yep. That's what the insane quark troll does. It can't debate
rationally so it lies and insults its opponent. You've made the right
move by filtering it out.
Nigel Feltham
> I wish I could help but I am printer clue less as you can tell :)
> Do not buy a HP P1006 however, it's very quirky, even under Windows
> because it needs firmware downloaded via the driver which adds some
> weirdness to it.
But then a lot of current printers aren't up to the build quality of
printers from 5-10 years ago - most inkjets feel cheap and flimsy compared
to my last inkjet, an ancient epson 740. Guess replacing decent metal
chassis with plastic keeps costs down.
> The studio guys that do one off's swear by Epson printers for CD labels.
> Or is he looking at the lightscribe stuff?
> Very slow for that.
He's looking for an inkjet that can print (text/photo's) directly onto the
surface of printable CD/DVD media - although I'm not convinced he really
knows what he wants as he's also looking at budget colour lasers such as
Samsung's CLP-300 and CLP-315 models to reduce printing costs (laser toner
is far cheaper than inkjet ink and doesn't have the cleaning cycle
wastage).
It's been suggested that if dad can get by without printing on CD's
(sticking with printing labels as he does currently) he should go with a
budget colour laser for himself and get mum an all in one inkjet and get
her (or local supermarket when printing in bulk) to print any photos he
wants done.
My current printer is a Lexmark SC1275 colour laser but this is an old
business model so a bit of a monster compared to what he's looking for (and
not that great at photos).
I have a test image (kodak photo CD test page available on several websites)
that I try to print on any colour models I get in at work to check the
quality (not just for personal reasons - it's a good way to test for print
faults after repair as some faults don't show up on text printing) and
decent lasers don't seem that far behind inkjets now so I would be
interested in seeing how the budget samsung lasers compare to the lexmark,
dell and HP models I've tried printing it on so far.
Nigel Feltham
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:27:41 +0100, ml2mst wrote:
>
>
>> This *could* be a genuine message, but it's more likely that Flatfish is
>> talking to himself again.
>
> Nigel has been around for a long time and he and I go back many years.
And at least this time there was a proper fault description - unlike many we
get at work such as :-
'My printer wont work' (not enough info to diagnose whether the fault is
with the printer, PC, Network print server, etc).
'A bit of plastic has fallen out of my printer, where is it from' (with no
indication of what colour or shape the part is).
'My PC has no display' (any power LED's lit on monitor or PC).
Any way things can be misdiagnosed we've probably seen them all.
Terry Porter
> Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>
>>
>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>
>> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>
> You're not ony a complete fool, it seems you are a helpless liar too.
>
> Even a cursory familiarity with LaTEX would mean you would know that
> it's a very, very finicky and picky language where a small hidden error
> could cost a fortune in paper and ink.
What a moron. You are proof that trolls only comment on things they know
*nothing* about.
> Is LaTEX good and poweful? Of course. Is it for people unable to handle
> even a WP tailored for thickies? Err, no.
Wrong again, and unlike your boring mantra that I'm 'always wrong", I'll
show why you are 100% incorrect.
The great lie is that WPs are easier than LaTeX, and of course, it's the
REVERSE of what is actually true.
My wife has a Degree, (First Class) Honors, and is currently doing her
phD.
She used LaTeX for all her university papers, wrote her honours thesis in
LaTex, yet is a basic computer user, with no admin skills.
Word processors require the writer do both the typesetting and the
content.
LaTeX only requires you produce the content, it takes care of all the
typesetting.
I know, I know, you can produce a First Class Honours thesis in Windows,
including reinstalling Vista in half the time ...
Yawn.
> Oh, and, err, it's also got pretty much nothing to do with Linux other
> than it runs on Linux as well as Windows.
LaTeX comes with most Linux distros, and never with Windows, therefore
LaTeX has a LOT to do with Linux.
For an outstanding WEB accessed accounting application using Apache/Perl
and latex see http://www.sql-ledger.com/.
Perhaps you'd like to offer a Free windows alternate ?
Perhaps something based on IIS/VB/WORD ?
Bwahahahahah!
Gregory Shearman
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:19:42 +0100, Hadron wrote:
>
>> Terry Porter <lin...@netspace.net.au> writes:
>>
>>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:24:34 +0000, The Lost Packet wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> *LaTEX rocks. Just thought I'd drop that in.
>>>
>>> So it does, LaTeX makes word processors look like hard work.
>>
>> You're not ony a complete fool, it seems you are a helpless liar too.
>>
>> Even a cursory familiarity with LaTEX would mean you would know that
>> it's a very, very finicky and picky language where a small hidden error
>> could cost a fortune in paper and ink.
>
> What a moron. You are proof that trolls only comment on things they know
> *nothing* about.
He's never heard of xdvi? What a marooooon! There's even kdvi if you
have the kde libs installed.
>> Is LaTEX good and poweful? Of course. Is it for people unable to handle
>> even a WP tailored for thickies? Err, no.
>
> Wrong again, and unlike your boring mantra that I'm 'always wrong", I'll
> show why you are 100% incorrect.
> The great lie is that WPs are easier than LaTeX, and of course, it's the
> REVERSE of what is actually true.
>
> My wife has a Degree, (First Class) Honors, and is currently doing her
> phD.
>
> She used LaTeX for all her university papers, wrote her honours thesis in
> LaTex, yet is a basic computer user, with no admin skills.
>
> Word processors require the writer do both the typesetting and the
> content.
>
> LaTeX only requires you produce the content, it takes care of all the
> typesetting.
Yep. That's the beauty of it. All you have to do is label the sections,
etc. For the rest of it you are free to concentrate upon what you write.
You don't waste time fapping around with formatting.
>> Oh, and, err, it's also got pretty much nothing to do with Linux other
>> than it runs on Linux as well as Windows.
>
> LaTeX comes with most Linux distros, and never with Windows, therefore
> LaTeX has a LOT to do with Linux.
I've been using it for more than a decade. I have tried all the other
word processing apps and none of them produce a finer document. xdvi is
an excellent tool for checking your document for errors.
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
>> LaTeX comes with most Linux distros, and never with Windows, therefore
>> LaTeX has a LOT to do with Linux.
>
> I've been using it for more than a decade. I have tried all the other
> word processing apps and none of them produce a finer document. xdvi is
> an excellent tool for checking your document for errors.
And, with LaTeX, you actually get "WYSIWYG". No printer driver boolshit.
--
The worst part of having success is trying to find someone who is happy for you.
-- Bette Midler
Gregory Shearman
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Gregory Shearman belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>>> LaTeX comes with most Linux distros, and never with Windows, therefore
>>> LaTeX has a LOT to do with Linux.
>>
>> I've been using it for more than a decade. I have tried all the other
>> word processing apps and none of them produce a finer document. xdvi is
>> an excellent tool for checking your document for errors.
>
> And, with LaTeX, you actually get "WYSIWYG". No printer driver boolshit.
It's more like "What You See Is What You Mean".
Vim has latex context highlighting. Makes it dead easy to turn out
letters, books, manuals, dissertations, documents of any kind. It even
enables label printing.
Printer drivers? As long as my printer can get a postscript file
converted into its native format there's absolutely no problem at all.
XDVI shows you how the document will look EXACTLY as it will be on
paper.
I've found no better or no easier solution. A learning curve is
associated with both vim and latex of course, but that's always the case
with powerful tools.
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
> On 2008-12-24, Chris Ahlstrom <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Gregory Shearman belched out
>> this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>>> LaTeX comes with most Linux distros, and never with Windows, therefore
>>>> LaTeX has a LOT to do with Linux.
>>>
>>> I've been using it for more than a decade. I have tried all the other
>>> word processing apps and none of them produce a finer document. xdvi is
>>> an excellent tool for checking your document for errors.
>>
>> And, with LaTeX, you actually get "WYSIWYG". No printer driver boolshit.
>
> It's more like "What You See Is What You Mean".
I meant that what you see in xdvi is always what you get when you print it,
no matter what printer model.
> Printer drivers? As long as my printer can get a postscript file
> converted into its native format there's absolutely no problem at all.
> XDVI shows you how the document will look EXACTLY as it will be on
> paper.
Yeah, what you said <grin>.
> I've found no better or no easier solution. A learning curve is
> associated with both vim and latex of course, but that's always the case
> with powerful tools.
Too bad learning throws some people a curve ball (American baseball
metaphor).
--
You look like a million dollars. All green and wrinkled.
Gregory Shearman
>> I've found no better or no easier solution. A learning curve is
>> associated with both vim and latex of course, but that's always the case
>> with powerful tools.
>
> Too bad learning throws some people a curve ball (American baseball
> metaphor).
In cricket we'd say they've been bowled a googly. Googly is a ball out
of the back of the hand of a leg spin bowler. It comes into the
right-handed batsman rather than customarily moving away. If it is
well-disguised, the batsmen will "leave the gate open" to be clean
bowled.
Most people prefer the easy path, rather than the path to power.
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
> On 2008-12-26, Chris Ahlstrom <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
>
>>> I've found no better or no easier solution. A learning curve is
>>> associated with both vim and latex of course, but that's always the case
>>> with powerful tools.
>>
>> Too bad learning throws some people a curve ball (American baseball
>> metaphor).
>
> In cricket we'd say they've been bowled a googly. Googly is a ball out
> of the back of the hand of a leg spin bowler. It comes into the
> right-handed batsman rather than customarily moving away. If it is
> well-disguised, the batsmen will "leave the gate open" to be clean
> bowled.
Great googly moogly, dat's some pukka patois, me no sabby, you sabby?
> Most people prefer the easy path, rather than the path to power.
Indeed. They'll go through a lot of hassles (learning about virus scanners,
site avoidance, blah blah blah) rather than learn something easy like Linux.
--
History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree on.
-- Napoleon Bonaparte, "Maxims"
Gregory Shearman
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Gregory Shearman belched out
> this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> On 2008-12-26, Chris Ahlstrom <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
>>
>>>> I've found no better or no easier solution. A learning curve is
>>>> associated with both vim and latex of course, but that's always the case
>>>> with powerful tools.
>>>
>>> Too bad learning throws some people a curve ball (American baseball
>>> metaphor).
>>
>> In cricket we'd say they've been bowled a googly. Googly is a ball out
>> of the back of the hand of a leg spin bowler. It comes into the
>> right-handed batsman rather than customarily moving away. If it is
>> well-disguised, the batsmen will "leave the gate open" to be clean
>> bowled.
>
> Great googly moogly, dat's some pukka patois, me no sabby, you sabby?
har har! Traditional Boxing Day Test at the Melbourne Cricket Ground.
The second cricket test against South Africa began on Boxing Day. Five
days of strategy, art and skill. Crowds are down. Only 65,000 for day 1.
The third test starts after New Year's Day at the Sydney Cricket Ground.
I love my cricket.
>> Most people prefer the easy path, rather than the path to power.
>
> Indeed. They'll go through a lot of hassles (learning about virus scanners,
> site avoidance, blah blah blah) rather than learn something easy like Linux.
8-)
What *seems* the easy path is *never* the easy path.
Nigel Feltham
> I wish I could help but I am printer clue less as you can tell :)
> Do not buy a HP P1006 however, it's very quirky, even under Windows
> because it needs firmware downloaded via the driver which adds some
> weirdness to it.
>
> The studio guys that do one off's swear by Epson printers for CD labels.
> Or is he looking at the lightscribe stuff?
> Very slow for that.
It's problem solved as far as Dad's printer is concerned, a local electrical
store had Epson SX100 All-in-one printers on half price offer so he now has
one of them (unfortunately this means the idea of upgrading to colour laser
is now off the menu for a few more years), real good value as under
30ukpounds (only 3/4 of the price of epson's cheapest machine without
scanner). No screen on this model though so still looking for one with
screen for Mum's standalone printing of camera photos.