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comp.os.linux.advocacy Charter

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High Plains Thumper

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Jul 20, 2006, 9:21:57 AM7/20/06
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Following are excerpts from the comp.os.linux.advocacy FAQ
found at:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/

1.2 Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy

If you are new to Linux and/or comp.os.linux.advocacy,
welcome. It is hoped that you will will enjoy your time in
comp.os.linux.advocacy and find it educational. We also hope
that you will find Linux as useful for you. and that in the
ripeness of time that you will become a contributing member of
the Linux community.

COLA is like a meeting hall for Linux advocacy. A place where
those who advocate the use of Linux can meet and discuss all
things Linux. In addition it is a place were individuals
interested in Linux can come to gain an understanding of the
Linux and the Linux community and to learn about the
capabilities of Linux from those who are experienced with the
use, administration, and development of Linux.

By using Linux as a user or sysadmin you are a member of the
Linux community of which this newsgroup is an asset. The Linux
community is world-wide and interconnected by the internet and
other networks gated to the internet.

The description that your news server delivers to you for
comp.os.linux.advocacy, or COLA for short, is "Benefits of
Linux compared to other operating systems". That description
is derived from the charter of COLA. Sometimes advocacy groups
are viewed as a place where the bickering undesirables of
other newsgroups are directed, in order to remove a disruption
from another group on the same general subject. That is
incorrect for COLA.

1.4 The Charter of comp.os.linux.advocacy

The charter of comp.os.linux.advocacy is:

For discussion of the benefits of Linux compared to other
operating systems.

That single sentence is the one and only charter of the
newsgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy. The newsgroup's charter is
for the newsgroup as a place for supporters of Linux to gather
to discuss Linux, for the betterment of the Linux community
and the promotion and development of Linux. It supports this
as a place for those who would like to learn more about Linux
to come to learn from those who know Linux. It does not call
for it to be a place where the anti-Linux propagandists to
gather in order to discredit Linux.

2.1 On Topic Subjects

On-topic is anything anything regarding Linux that is of
interest to a person who advocates the use of Linux, or
requests for information about Linux by a person who would
like to learn about it. COLA is also a great place to share
your Linux success stories.

COLA is not a place to advocate the use of other operating
systems, there are other newsgroups for advocating them. COLA
is not a place to vent real or imagined complaints regarding
Linux. There are other newsgroups created for that purpose.

COLA is not a place to post advertisements or other promotions
for financial gain or for promoting anything other than the
use of Linux operating system and growth of the Linux
community.

--
HPT

Tim Smith

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Jul 20, 2006, 11:31:59 AM7/20/06
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In article <Xns9806E3...@81.174.50.80>, High Plains Thumper wrote:
> Following are excerpts from the comp.os.linux.advocacy FAQ found at:

That's *a* COLA FAQ, not *the* COLA FAQ. There have been a few different
people/groups perpetrating FAQs. None of them have actually been anywhere
near an actual FAQ, but have either been attempts to retroactively redefine
COLA to only talk about what the authors think is appropriate, or have been
anti-Linux attacks.

--
--Tim Smith

Message has been deleted

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 20, 2006, 4:34:10 PM7/20/06
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Tim Smith wrote:
> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>
>> Following are excerpts from the comp.os.linux.advocacy FAQ
>> found at:
>
> That's *a* COLA FAQ, not *the* COLA FAQ. There have been a
> few different people/groups perpetrating FAQs. None of
> them have actually been anywhere near an actual FAQ, but
> have either been attempts to retroactively redefine COLA to
> only talk about what the authors think is appropriate, or
> have been anti-Linux attacks.

That quote you conveniently snipped away:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/

is THE FAQ. It is what is officially on file.

--
HPT

Tim Smith

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Jul 20, 2006, 8:45:45 PM7/20/06
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In article <Xns980738...@81.174.50.80>, High Plains Thumper wrote:
>> That's *a* COLA FAQ, not *the* COLA FAQ. There have been a few different
>> people/groups perpetrating FAQs. None of them have actually been
>> anywhere near an actual FAQ, but have either been attempts to
>> retroactively redefine COLA to only talk about what the authors think is
>> appropriate, or have been anti-Linux attacks.
>
> That quote you conveniently snipped away:
>
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
>
> is THE FAQ. It is what is officially on file.

All that means is that the authors of that particular FAQ made sure it
conformed to certain formating rules, and submitted it to comp.answers.
The moderators of comp.answers check for format, not content, and then
approve. There is no check or validation that it is a real FAQ.

You can read all about how this works at faqs.org, if you are curious.

--
--Tim Smith

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 20, 2006, 11:36:26 PM7/20/06
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Like, 5.3) FAQ maintainers?

/quote/ Once your FAQ is approved, you are now included in
the fraternity of elite individuals known as FAQ maintainers
(FAQers might not be the best term for obvious reasons).
Pass out cigars, throw a party, have a beer, and write and
tell Mom about it. /-quote/

--
HPT

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 20, 2006, 11:41:14 PM7/20/06
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Black Dragon wrote:
> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>
>> The charter of comp.os.linux.advocacy is: For discussion
>> of the benefits of Linux compared to other operating
>> systems. That single sentence is the one and only charter
>> of the newsgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy.
>
> That charter needs to be amended so it matches the current
> state of the newsgroup;
>
> comp.os.linux.advocacy -

>
> For discussion of the benefits of Linux compared to
> Microsoft Windows, and a RSS news feed to Usenet gateway.

Really? Then why are you posting here?

--
HPT

Tim Smith

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Jul 21, 2006, 1:38:29 AM7/21/06
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In article <Xns980780...@81.174.50.80>, High Plains Thumper wrote:
>> You can read all about how this works at faqs.org, if you
>> are curious.
>
> Like, 5.3) FAQ maintainers?
>
> /quote/ Once your FAQ is approved, you are now included in
> the fraternity of elite individuals known as FAQ maintainers
> (FAQers might not be the best term for obvious reasons).
> Pass out cigars, throw a party, have a beer, and write and
> tell Mom about it. /-quote/

Keep reading. In particular, figure out what it takes to get
your FAQ approved. It's not a high bar.

--
--Tim Smith

Mark Kent

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Jul 21, 2006, 3:56:42 AM7/21/06
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High Plains Thumper <h...@singlecylinderbikes.com> espoused:

What Timmy doesn't like is that the FAQ contains a proper and accurate
description of the charter of this group, and a verbatim copy of it.
He doesn't like it because he posts off-topic much of the time, thus
tries to claim that it's "retro active". As the group didn't exist
before the charter, this is clearly an inane remark.

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that
would also stop you from doing clever things.
-- Doug Gwyn

Roy Schestowitz

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Jul 21, 2006, 5:02:37 AM7/21/06
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__/ [ High Plains Thumper ] on Friday 21 July 2006 04:41 \__

BD, without any encouraging items, most new threads will be initiated by
trolls. And, trust me, these are not fun to read if you subscribe to a group
in order to appreciate the benefits of Linux. There is a reason why au79 has
been doing the same thing for a while, at a different level of capacity.

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 21, 2006, 5:40:24 AM7/21/06
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What is your point?

--
HPT

Mark Kent

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Jul 21, 2006, 9:47:24 AM7/21/06
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High Plains Thumper <h...@singlecylinderbikes.com> espoused:

That he doesn't like the charter, because it proves that he mostly posts
off-topic, perhaps?

Tim Smith

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Jul 21, 2006, 10:38:48 AM7/21/06
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In article <Xns9807BD...@81.174.50.80>, High Plains Thumper wrote:
>> Keep reading. In particular, figure out what it takes to get your FAQ
>> approved. It's not a high bar.
>
> What is your point?

That being archived at faq.org doesn't make a particular FAQ in any way some
kind of "official" FAQ for a group. The particular FAQ you are citing is
one of several that have been offered over the years, and like the others,
it never did reflect the actual group. It was just an effort of a small
number of people to try to change the group to fit their idea of what it
should be. That particular group happened to go through the very tiny
effort to get their FAQ into comp.answers, so it is archived at faq.org,
whereas the others playing the "argue by calling their argument a FAQ" game
didn't think of that.

--
--Tim Smith

Tim Smith

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Jul 21, 2006, 10:42:51 AM7/21/06
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In article <cg27p3-...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk>, Mark Kent wrote:
>> What is your point?
>
> That he doesn't like the charter, because it proves that he mostly posts
> off-topic, perhaps?

I can see where you might think that, since I post mostly about Linux, so it
must seem off-topic to someone like you, who merely occasionally touches on
Linux while posting about sound in movies, the police, and politics (those
drawn from your off-topic posts of just the past few hours).

--
--Tim Smith

Tim Smith

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Jul 21, 2006, 10:53:11 AM7/21/06
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In article <qud6p3-...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk>, Mark Kent wrote:
> What Timmy doesn't like is that the FAQ contains a proper and accurate
> description of the charter of this group, and a verbatim copy of it. He
> doesn't like it because he posts off-topic much of the time, thus tries to
> claim that it's "retro active". As the group didn't exist before the
> charter, this is clearly an inane remark.

I count at least 4 errors in there. Maybe you should actually read posts
before responding to them, instead of just skimming.

--
--Tim Smith

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 21, 2006, 5:02:30 PM7/21/06
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Tim Smith <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote in
news:12c1pno...@news.supernews.com:

> High Plains Thumper wrote:

Reference

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/

that you conveniently snipped away.

Then charter of comp.os.linux.advocacy is not, "For


discussion of the benefits of Linux compared to other

operating systems"?

FAQ continues by stating the following:

= That single sentence is the one and only charter of the
newsgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy.

- The newsgroup's charter is for the newsgroup as a place for


supporters of Linux to gather to discuss Linux

-- for the betterment of the Linux community

-- and the promotion and development of Linux.

- It supports this as a place for those who would like to


learn more about Linux to come to learn from those who know
Linux.

- It does not call for it to be a place where the anti-Linux


propagandists to gather in order to discredit Linux.

IMHO, last statement is somewhat redundant, as any post that
discredits Linux would not be in accordance with, "discussion


of the benefits of Linux compared to other operating
systems".

Expanded clarification seems on target and in support of the
charter, does it not?

Then what do you propose?

--
HPT

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 21, 2006, 7:10:35 PM7/21/06
to
Tim Smith wrote:
> Mark Kent wrote:
>
>> What Timmy doesn't like is that the FAQ contains a proper
>> and accurate description of the charter of this group, and
>> a verbatim copy of it. He doesn't like it because he
>> posts off-topic much of the time, thus tries to claim that
>> it's "retro active". As the group didn't exist before the
>> charter, this is clearly an inane remark.
>
> I count at least 4 errors in there. Maybe you should
> actually read posts before responding to them, instead of
> just skimming.

And just what are those errors?

--
HPT

Tim Smith

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Jul 21, 2006, 7:22:00 PM7/21/06
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In article <Xns98083D...@81.174.50.80>, High Plains Thumper wrote:
> Reference
>
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
>
> that you conveniently snipped away.
>
> Then charter of comp.os.linux.advocacy is not, "For discussion of the
> benefits of Linux compared to other operating systems"?
>
> FAQ continues by stating the following:

I don't understand why you keep bringing up the charter. I haven't
commented on the charter or its interpretation. I'm just commenting that
the particular FAQ you are citing isn't in any way an authoratitive source
for anything, as anyone can produce a FAQ (and several were being produced
at one time for this group, trying to push the views of their authors as if
they were somehow official) and it is easy to get it archived at faqs.org.

> - It does not call for it to be a place where the anti-Linux propagandists
> to gather in order to discredit Linux.
>
> IMHO, last statement is somewhat redundant, as any post that discredits
> Linux would not be in accordance with, "discussion of the benefits of
> Linux compared to other operating systems".
>
> Expanded clarification seems on target and in support of the charter, does
> it not?
>
> Then what do you propose?

But if you do want to discuss the charter, fine. It says for *discussion*.
Discussion of a topic generally includes the pros *and* the cons, which
would make the anti-Linux side acceptable, if discussing the cons of a
particular purported benefit.

This is also in accord with the factors that led to the creation of this
group in the first place: a desire to have a place other than the Linux
technical groups for those discussion. A newsgroup charter must always be
read in light of the problem the group's creation was meant to address.
Trying to interpret a group charter out of context almost never works (for
the same reason trying to interpret a law without context almost never
works, which is why courts spend a great deal of time studying the
legislative history of a law when trying to interpret it).

The interpretation offered in the FAQ is *not* in accord with the purpose
for which the group was created, which should be a strong clue that it isn't
right.

--
--Tim Smith

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 22, 2006, 12:14:58 AM7/22/06
to

After some research, I found the following announcement:

> From ta...@uunet.uu.net Mon Dec 19 10:34:41 1994
> Control: newgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy
> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
> Path: uunet!tale
> From: ta...@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
> Subject: newgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy
> Approved: ta...@uunet.uu.net
> Sender: ta...@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 15:33:41 GMT
> Message-ID: <D12Dw...@uunet.uu.net>
> Lines: 9
> Xref: uunet control:1499648
>
> comp.os.linux.advocacy is a unmoderated newsgroup which
> passed its vote for creation by 1337:167 as reported in
> news.announce.newgroups on 13 Dec 1994.
>
> For your newsgroups file:
> comp.os.linux.advocacy Benefits of Linux compared to other
> operating systems.
>
> The charter, culled from the call for votes:


>
> For discussion of the benefits of Linux compared to other

> operating systems.

Thus far, what is historically stated in the FAQ is correct.
There was an initial effort as Request for Discussion (RFD)
dated 14-Feb-94. It did not make it to vote and approval.
RFD dated 14-Oct-94 made it to vote and approval.

Charter is, "For discussion of the benefits of Linux compared
to other operating systems."

Excerpted from http://www.webster.com:

> Main Entry: ad-vo-ca-cy
> : the act or process of advocating or supporting a cause or
> proposal

> Main Entry: ad-vo-cate
> 1 : one that pleads the cause of another; specifically :
> one that pleads the cause of another before a tribunal or
> judicial court
> 2 : one that defends or maintains a cause or proposal
> 3 : one that supports or promotes the interests of
> another

> Main Entry: ben-e-fit
> 2 a : something that promotes well-being : ADVANTAGE b :
> useful aid : HELP

Per Merriam-Webster Online Thesaurus:

> Entry Word: benefit
> 1 : a thing that helps <it would be a real benefit if
> you could keep track of what you have already bought> --
> see HELP 2
> 2 : something that provides happiness or does good for a
> person or thing <the meal service is a great benefit
> to invalids and the elderly> -- see BLESSING 2

"Advocacy for Linux" implies "defend, support, promote
Linux".

"Benefit" implies "advantage, helpful, does good, provides
happiness, blesses".

Thus, content of anti-Linux nature that is short of
defending, supporting, promoting advantages, helpfulness and
happiness Linux brings is inappropriate per charter.

--
HPT

Tim Smith

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Jul 22, 2006, 2:08:40 AM7/22/06
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In article <Xns980886...@81.174.50.80>, High Plains Thumper wrote:
>> Main Entry: ad-vo-ca-cy
...
>> Main Entry: ben-e-fit

Try "discussion".

--
--Tim Smith

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 22, 2006, 5:36:24 AM7/22/06
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Tim Smith wrote:
> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>
>>> Main Entry: ad-vo-ca-cy
> ...
>>> Main Entry: ben-e-fit
>
> Try "discussion".

Discussions like in:

> "Advocacy for Linux" implies "defend, support, promote
> Linux".
>
> "Benefit" implies "advantage, helpful, does good, provides
> happiness, blesses".
>
> Thus, content of anti-Linux nature that is short of
> defending, supporting, promoting advantages, helpfulness
> and happiness Linux brings is inappropriate per charter.

????

Let us backup 2 threads, Tim Smith wrote:

>>> This is also in accord with the factors that led to the
>>> creation of this group in the first place: a desire to
>>> have a place other than the Linux technical groups for
>>> those discussion. A newsgroup charter must always be
>>> read in light of the problem the group's creation was
>>> meant to address. Trying to interpret a group charter out
>>> of context almost never works (for the same reason trying
>>> to interpret a law without context almost never works,
>>> which is why courts spend a great deal of time studying
>>> the legislative history of a law when trying to interpret
>>> it).
>>>
>>> The interpretation offered in the FAQ is *not* in accord
>>> with the purpose for which the group was created, which
>>> should be a strong clue that it isn't right.

Following is the historical context:

Mr. Dave Sill <d...@sws5.ctd.ornl.gov> posted to various
newsgroups subject, "2nd RFD: comp.os.linux reorganization"
Dated: 14 Oct 1994.

Post is archived at

ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/comp/comp
.os.linux-reorg3

or http://tinyurl.com/egj8s (user friendly of the same)

Reorganisation was prompted by excessive levels of traffic in
comp.os.linux.help newsgroup. Mr. Sill initiated a Request
for Discussion (RFD), which after discussion and approval,
resulted in 5 additional groups being added. c.o.l.help was
relegated to c.o.l.misc with c.o.l.help being retired.

c.o.l.help was replaced with:

1) comp.os.linux.advocacy - For discussion of the benefits of


Linux compared to other operating systems.

2) comp.os.linux.development.apps - For questions and
discussion regarding the writing of applications for Linux
and the porting of applications to Linux.

3) comp.os.linux.hardware - For questions and discussion
specific to a particular piece of hardware.

4) comp.os.linux.networking - For questions and discussion
relating to networking or communications.

5) comp.os.linux.x - For questions and discussion relating to
X Window System.

Thus, group c.o.l.advocacy originated out of c.o.l.help.

It was born out of a need to expand help categories. Charter
for c.o.l.help was, "Discussion of Linux-specific questions and
advice".

Per RFD, "This proposed reorganization was prompted originally
by the excessive level of traffic in comp.os.linux.help.
Following a straw poll conducted by the proponent, an RFD was
posted for breaking comp.os.linux.help into various subgroups
and creating comp.os.linux.answers for separating the
documentation and announcements currently posted to
comp.os.linux.announce. During the discussion period, it became
evident that it would be preferable to create the groups
directly under comp.os.linux, rather than splitting
comp.os.linux.help."

A relationship between "help" and "advocacy" is established.

Thus, I am not sure what you mean by, "The interpretation

offered in the FAQ is *not* in accord with the purpose for which
the group was created, which should be a strong clue that it
isn't right."

Could you offer an example from the FAQ?

--
HPT

Mark Kent

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Jul 22, 2006, 2:47:07 PM7/22/06
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High Plains Thumper <h...@singlecylinderbikes.com> espoused:

Although this will without doubt damage my "quality poster" rating in Roy
C's stats, I really want to leave the whole thing up, as it demonstrates
just how far our astroturfers/trolls, like Tim Smith, are prepared to
go, in order to attempt to turn our linux advocacy group into a windows
advocacy group. HPT has, once again, posted the charter, and even been
so helpful as to explain what words like "benefits" mean.

Let's keep the linux advocacy here, and the anti-linux propaganda can go
into alt.linux.sux, the windows advocacy into the windows advocacy
groups.

Off-charter posters should move to the appropriate group.

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |

Q: What's yellow, and equivalent to the Axiom of Choice?
A: Zorn's Lemon.

William Poaster

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Jul 22, 2006, 7:28:22 PM7/22/06
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I count one error, that the Smith Macuser is *still* in this group.

--
Disk full - remove Windows?
Y - Yes!
F - FFS YES!

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 23, 2006, 2:28:21 AM7/23/06
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"William Poaster" wrote:
> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>> Tim Smith wrote:
>>> Mark Kent wrote:
>>>
>>>> What Timmy doesn't like is that the FAQ contains a
>>>> proper and accurate description of the charter of this
>>>> group, and a verbatim copy of it. He doesn't like it
>>>> because he posts off-topic much of the time, thus tries
>>>> to claim that it's "retro active". As the group didn't
>>>> exist before the charter, this is clearly an inane
>>>> remark.
>>>
>>> I count at least 4 errors in there. Maybe you should
>>> actually read posts before responding to them, instead of
>>> just skimming.
>>
>> And just what are those errors?
>
> I count one error, that the Smith Macuser is *still* in
> this group.

I made one error, not <PLONKING> Timmy earlier.

--
HPT

Mark Kent

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Jul 23, 2006, 3:40:50 AM7/23/06
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High Plains Thumper <h...@singlecylinderbikes.com> espoused:

My approach to this has changed a lot over the years. I used to offer
the benefit of the doubt to posters who looked new or I didn't know, but
over time, I've seen so many troll posts, that I just tend to plonk on
sight, sometimes with a short (1 liner) warning to the rest of the
group. I think I just lack the patience...

The whole experience of being in cola has been very interesting, as it
has 100% confirmed that there is a class or group of people, like Erik
F, Tim Smith, Flatty/Gary, Grug, k-man and so on who will take a great
and deliberate delight from off-topic posting, and will follow any
possible argument they can to support what they do. There is nothing
anyone can say to them which is going to move them from their positions
- they are only here to disrupt, and that is what they will do. I've
speculated many times on the kind of personality it must take to do
that; and the impact on the person over a long period. I suspect
it's quite nasty. I wonder if they'll ever recover?

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |

The only way to learn a new programming language is by writing programs in it.
- Brian Kernighan

High Plains Thumper

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Jul 23, 2006, 5:28:58 AM7/23/06
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Mark Kent wrote:
> High Plains Thumper espoused:

You are correct. There is no winning against a troll, short of his/her
account termination by provider, which is only temporary.

Interestingly enough, I found this explanation:

http://slashnet.org/faq.php?qid=21

irc.SlashNET.org

> What is a troll? A troll is someone who seeks to deliberately incite
> anger, arguments, and disorder. A simple example would be a person who
> goes into #linux and extols the superiority of Microsoft products.

This next URL has perhaps the best explanation. It is lengthy, but goes
into describing all types of troll activity that I see present here in
c.o.l.advocacy. I attempted to post text version in a new thread, but
received an oversized message error from the usenet server (post is 1,099
lines). Perhaps one of the advocates could post it from their usenet
connection, if their server permits. If not, I may post as a multi-thread
article.

http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm

Subject 4 describes their actions to a Tee.

It reminds me of when a humans relations department in a large corporation
or government office catches wind of an abuse like sexual harrassment in
one of its departments. They send the entire department to sexual
harrassment training, so everyone is aware. Then other measures are
instituted to deal with abuses.

A post of this article would help to serve the same.

--
HPT

William Poaster

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Jul 23, 2006, 3:32:23 AM7/23/06
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I did that ages ago, but he still tries to reply, apparently.
That's one thing trolls do.

Mark Kent

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Jul 23, 2006, 11:45:08 AM7/23/06
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William Poaster <w...@suse101oss.eu> espoused:

They can do so without fear of dispute, I guess. Probably a good
technique to troll responses from elsewhere. A wiki scorefile would be
useful, but, then, you know who'd be there editing it...

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |

Mark Kent

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Jul 23, 2006, 12:10:12 PM7/23/06
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High Plains Thumper <h...@singlecylinderbikes.com> espoused:

<snip>


>
> This next URL has perhaps the best explanation. It is lengthy, but goes
> into describing all types of troll activity that I see present here in
> c.o.l.advocacy. I attempted to post text version in a new thread, but
> received an oversized message error from the usenet server (post is 1,099
> lines). Perhaps one of the advocates could post it from their usenet
> connection, if their server permits. If not, I may post as a multi-thread
> article.
>
> http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm

Interesting - I hadn't realised that the Yorkshire newsgroup had also
suffered from this problem. I don't even live there any more ... :-)

>
> Subject 4 describes their actions to a Tee.
>
> It reminds me of when a humans relations department in a large corporation
> or government office catches wind of an abuse like sexual harrassment in
> one of its departments. They send the entire department to sexual
> harrassment training, so everyone is aware. Then other measures are
> instituted to deal with abuses.
>
> A post of this article would help to serve the same.
>

It's probably a good idea. Perhaps you could take a leaf from Roy's
approach - post the URL and some selected quotes to the group from time
to time?

As noted in the faq, there was a big effort to clean up Cola back in
2002, and it was reasonably effective, and most certainly had Erik and
others all lathered up, rather like Timmy has been about this.

Roy Schestowitz

unread,
Jul 23, 2006, 4:38:01 PM7/23/06
to
__/ [ Mark Kent ] on Sunday 23 July 2006 16:45 \__

> begin oe_protect.scr
> William Poaster <w...@suse101oss.eu> espoused:
>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:28:21 +0000, High Plains Thumper wrote:
>>
>>> "William Poaster" wrote:
>>>> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>>>>> Tim Smith wrote:
>>>>>> Mark Kent wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What Timmy doesn't like is that the FAQ contains a proper and
>>>>>>> accurate description of the charter of this group, and a verbatim
>>>>>>> copy of it. He doesn't like it because he posts off-topic much of the
>>>>>>> time, thus tries to claim that it's "retro active". As the group
>>>>>>> didn't exist before the charter, this is clearly an inane remark.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I count at least 4 errors in there. Maybe you should actually read
>>>>>> posts before responding to them, instead of just skimming.
>>>>>
>>>>> And just what are those errors?
>>>>
>>>> I count one error, that the Smith Macuser is *still* in this group.
>>>
>>> I made one error, not <PLONKING> Timmy earlier.
>>
>> I did that ages ago, but he still tries to reply, apparently.
>> That's one thing trolls do.
>>
>
> They can do so without fear of dispute, I guess. Probably a good
> technique to troll responses from elsewhere. A wiki scorefile would be
> useful, but, then, you know who'd be there editing it...

How about we set one up and distribute a password via off-list E-mail/s? it's
a 5-minute job...

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | "Lions are like hippie tigers"
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU is Not UNIX | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
roy pts/7 Sun Jul 23 07:38 still logged in
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine

GreyCloud

unread,
Jul 23, 2006, 5:43:27 PM7/23/06
to
Mark Kent wrote:

Maybe somebody would be willing to go get a billy-box with NT on it and
go get hampster. Then the volunteer can take care of the insurgents,
while the rest can discuss Linux.
Too bad TMax didn't stay stable enough so as not to bite the good guys.
He was fairly effective against Ewik. I'm sure he would have made
mince-meat out of timmy.


--
Where are we going?
And why am I in this handbasket?

Peter Köhlmann

unread,
Jul 23, 2006, 5:53:58 PM7/23/06
to
GreyCloud wrote:

TMax wasn't effective against anyone save himself. He is a totally
incompetent nimwit, and nearly in the same league as Snot. Both claim to
be "teachers", BTW. And both are incredibly inept.
TMax has never argued anything successfully, he was extremely easy to
clobber on anything technical, although he claimed that this was one of his
main areas. His blunders about networking are simply incredible

He used the same technique as Snot, BTW, when he found that all his claims
had been shredded to tiny parts: He snipped and got off on a totally
unrelated tangent, claiming victory in the thread
--
The National Short-Sleeved Shirt Association says:
Support your right to bare arms!

GreyCloud

unread,
Jul 24, 2006, 12:40:41 AM7/24/06
to
Peter Köhlmann wrote:

Ok, I know he wasn't technically competent. But he sure had a way with
words when it came to Ewik.

> He used the same technique as Snot, BTW, when he found that all his claims
> had been shredded to tiny parts: He snipped and got off on a totally
> unrelated tangent, claiming victory in the thread

That's where he got off on the wrong track. The only area where he was
good was in the M$ anti-trust stuff. But, for some reason he started
eating on everybody. I noticed it first when he started telling Terry
Porter that his comments were stupid, and Terry was sort of shocked to
read that. It deteriorated after that.

Mark Kent

unread,
Jul 24, 2006, 3:50:04 AM7/24/06
to
begin oe_protect.scr
GreyCloud <mi...@cumulus.com> espoused:

> Too bad TMax didn't stay stable enough so as not to bite the good guys.
> He was fairly effective against Ewik. I'm sure he would have made
> mince-meat out of timmy.
>

Indeed. I used to have a lot of time for TMax, but in the end, he did
seem to lose it.

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |

Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names
the streets after them.
-- Bill Vaughn

Mark Kent

unread,
Jul 24, 2006, 3:50:40 AM7/24/06
to
begin oe_protect.scr
Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> espoused:

Okay - go for it!

Maybe that's the right approach for the Government adoption of OSS, as
well, as you say?

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |

Roy Schestowitz

unread,
Jul 24, 2006, 6:49:00 AM7/24/06
to
__/ [ Mark Kent ] on Monday 24 July 2006 08:50 \__

When I come to think of it, if the username/password is spread off-list, then
we might as well just make the URL hidden, which will have a similar effect
(quicker to access, albeit it is less secure). We can always roll back from
the database (stacked backups added twice per day). I'll send you the URL
shortly, off-list(NG rather).

Mark Kent

unread,
Jul 25, 2006, 4:33:42 AM7/25/06
to

Fair enough - except I thought that we'd want to publish the url, or at
least /a/ url...

--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |

What no spouse of a writer can ever understand is that a writer is working
when he's staring out the window.

Roy Schestowitz

unread,
Jul 25, 2006, 4:12:48 PM7/25/06
to
__/ [ Mark Kent ] on Tuesday 25 July 2006 09:33 \__

If it leaks to the trolls, then they can edit the list. I can make it
password-protected, but it would require some tinkering. I'm looking forward
to getting some initial feedback (sent you the E-mail yesterday) before
going further.

Best wishes,

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | "Quote when replying in non-real-time dialogues"
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Swap: 1036184k total, 320000k used, 716184k free, 101680k cached
http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms

Mark Kent

unread,
Jul 25, 2006, 5:29:19 PM7/25/06
to
begin oe_protect.scr
Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> espoused:
> __/ [ Mark Kent ] on Tuesday 25 July 2006 09:33 \__
>
<kersnip>

>>
>> Fair enough - except I thought that we'd want to publish the url, or at
>> least /a/ url...
>
> If it leaks to the trolls, then they can edit the list. I can make it
> password-protected, but it would require some tinkering. I'm looking forward
> to getting some initial feedback (sent you the E-mail yesterday) before
> going further.
>

Okay - I'll be on it!

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