[News] iPhone Features Available on Much Cheaper, Open, Secure Linux Phones
Roy Schestowitz
,----[ Quote ]
| Apple made headlines this weekend with its launch of the iPhone. I
| applaud Apple for pioneering a new design and user-interface, however
| feature-wise the iPhone is similar to a Motorola RAZR that debuted two
| years ago.
`----
http://sheehantu.wordpress.com/2007/07/01/get-the-iphones-features-without-an-iphone/
waterskidoo
> Get the iPhone?s Features Without an iPhone
Where does that article mention Linux, Open, Secure phones?
It's about the Motorola Razr which does not run Linux, is not open although
it may be secure.
Your subject line is highly misleading.
Perhaps you posted the wrong link by mistake?
AB
Except you don't have the luxury of only being allowed to connect to
one service provider and pay $500 just to get a locked RAZR. App-hole
innovated those parts just right.
--
We'll burn that bridge when we come to it.
waterskidoo
> Except you don't have the luxury of only being allowed to connect to
> one service provider and pay $500 just to get a locked RAZR. App-hole
> innovated those parts just right.
Sure you do because AFAIK phones are locked to each provider IOW an ATT
phone won't work on Verizon's network. Also the various providers have
different selections of phones some of which are unique to certain
providers.
Roy Schestowitz
Oops. You are right. The Razr2 is Linux-based, but not the Razr. I was going by
memory...
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8879219087.html
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | {Hide sig} {Show sig} >{Close Application}<
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Tim Smith
Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> Oops. You are right. The Razr2 is Linux-based, but not the Razr. I
> was going by memory...
>
> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8879219087.html
However, you can't seem to do much to take advantage of Motorola using
Linux. See this article, entitled
Linux-based Motorola cell phones frustrate third-party developers
about how Motorola makes it hard or impossible to get and use the code:
<http://mobile.newsforge.com/mobility/06/02/01/1655248.shtml?tid=104&tid=
25&tid=98>
The cell phone industry is a hotbed of "tivoization".
--
--Tim Smith
Thufir
Usually you can just take the phone to an unlocking service, then pop in
a new SIM. Is this not possible with RAZR and RAZR2 ?
-Thufir
waterskidoo
>
> Oops. You are right. The Razr2 is Linux-based, but not the Razr. I was going by
> memory...
>
> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8879219087.html
Not a big deal. I didn't realize any of the Moto phones were Linux based.
Good information to know.
waterskidoo
> Usually you can just take the phone to an unlocking service, then pop in
> a new SIM. Is this not possible with RAZR and RAZR2 ?
> -Thufir
I don't think so because the SIM is not accessible like it is say on
the Blackberry where it is located under the battery.
I've had a couple of cell phones opened up at various times and
I don't recall ever seeing a removable SIM card.
I don't think I have ever seen a cell phone that has a SIM card
the user can pop in and out. PDA's, like the Blackberry, may be
different however.
Tim Smith
Thufir <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Sure you do because AFAIK phones are locked to each provider IOW an ATT
> > phone won't work on Verizon's network. Also the various providers have
> > different selections of phones some of which are unique to certain
> > providers.
>
> Usually you can just take the phone to an unlocking service, then pop in
> a new SIM. Is this not possible with RAZR and RAZR2 ?
Cell phone service is a bit different in the US than it is in some other
countries. In Europe, for example, the government stepped in early and
forced a standard on the cell phone industry. The good side of that is
that cell phone service providers are pretty much independent of cell
phone handset makers. You buy a handset, and use it with any service
provider.
In the US, the government took a more hands-off approach, letting the
phone carriers build their networks pretty much however they wanted,
mostly just regulating spectrum use and power and things like that. The
good side of that is that the US carriers often have better underlying
phone technology (CDMA here vs. GSM in Europe). The bad side of it is
that the handsets are tied to the service providers--they often don't
have anything like a SIM. My Sprint Treo, for example, won't work with
Verizon. If I want to move to Verizon, I have to buy a new phone from
them. My Treo has firmware that is specific to Sprint, and Verizon
would not be willing to replace that with Verizon firmware (and I'm not
sure they could--the phone might only be able to get new firmware from
Sprint).
I suspect there is going to be some pressure for this to change in the
US. The iPhone has shown that the notion of convergence of phone and
music player and portable net access device is not as dumb as it
appeared--it appeared dumb only because so many previous attempts
botched it. I think there is going to be a big demand for good,
multifunction, devices like this (not just the iPhone...the other
vendors will learn from the iPhone and figure out what it takes to make
convergence work). This will lead to more people buying higher end
devices, that cost a lot--and then they will be reluctant to have to
switch devices to change phone carriers.
(A few years ago, another big barrier to switching carries was dropped.
It used to be here that each cell phone service provider was allocated a
pool of phone numbers, and to use their service, you had to have a
number from their pool. So, when I switched from AT&T to Sprint, I had
to give up my AT&T number and get a Sprint number. That was changed,
and now you can take your number with you. So, if I go from Sprint back
to AT&T, my number will go with me. That greatly lowered the barrier to
switching carrier. Actually, this number portability also works between
cell providers and land line providers, so basically as long as I live
in a geographical area that is served by my area code, I can keep my
number no matter what provider or style of phone service I choose).
--
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
waterskidoo <water....@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2007-07-05, Thufir <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Usually you can just take the phone to an unlocking service, then pop in
> > a new SIM. Is this not possible with RAZR and RAZR2 ?
> > -Thufir
>
> I don't think so because the SIM is not accessible like it is say on
> the Blackberry where it is located under the battery.
The iPhone SIM is accessible and easy to remove:
<http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9738138-1.html>
--
--Tim Smith
Roy Schestowitz
All the new/recent ones are Java/Linux-based. That's their new strategy. Many
of these iPhone-like features for Razr probably work in many more phone
because they are quite standards-based (Web).
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | The most satisfying eXPerience is UNIX
http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 112 total, 1 running, 110 sleeping, 0 stopped, 1 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
AB
Besides that, one can go to Verizon, Sprint (I think), AT&T, T-Mobile,
etc and get a RAZR that works with that provider. One can *only* use
Crapple's phone with AT&T, IMHO the worst provider on most things,
which probably reflects in their wireless service, too. And none of the
RAZR providers charge $500 to get the same capability as what His
Steveness is pushing.
So even if one can unlock the whyPhone at some point, the RAZR will
still have a leg up.
--
A day without sunshine is like night.
AB
The last 4 or 5 phones I had used SIMs. I use prepaid because I don't
talk much (and it keeps cost down to around $100-180/year). I've had
Tracfone (Cingular service), NET10 (also Cingular), Virgin Mobile (the
worst of the worst, Sprint I think) and T-Mobile, all of which used
SIMs.
Every one of the phones we deal with where I work (hundreds of them)
have used SIMs for 5 years or more. The work phones have all been
Cingular, now AT&T.
--
A choice is always possible, even without any options.
waterskidoo
> Besides that, one can go to Verizon, Sprint (I think), AT&T, T-Mobile,
> etc and get a RAZR that works with that provider. One can *only* use
> Crapple's phone with AT&T, IMHO the worst provider on most things,
> which probably reflects in their wireless service, too. And none of the
> RAZR providers charge $500 to get the same capability as what His
> Steveness is pushing.
For the Razr maybe, but some phones are exclusive to the carrier.
The LG8700 and the LG Chocolate for example are exclusive to
Verizon. Also as Tim Smith pointed out, reprogramming the SIM
is not an option for most phones, in the USA anyway.
> So even if one can unlock the whyPhone at some point, the RAZR will
> still have a leg up.
To compare the Razr to the iPhone is silly.
Even the LG Vx-8700 which clobbers the Razr for features, styling
and so forth doesn't compare to the iPhone.
I fail to understand why this group hates the iPhone so much?
It looks like a major case of sour grapes to me.
Why? Apple gets loads of attention when they release products
and Linux doesn't. Apple's products are unique, every single
one of them from the iMac to the iPod and now to the iPhone.
Overpriced? Maybe, but people are waiting in line to get them
which can't be said for anything Linux based that I know of.
waterskidoo
> talk much (and it keeps cost down to around $100-180/year). I've had
> Tracfone (Cingular service), NET10 (also Cingular), Virgin Mobile (the
> worst of the worst, Sprint I think) and T-Mobile, all of which used
> SIMs.
Removable SIM card? Or hard wired to the unit?
Ok, I've just never seen one and I've used ATT in the past but
have been using Verizon for the last 7 years or so. No Verizon
phone I have ever seen has a removable SIM.
> Every one of the phones we deal with where I work (hundreds of them)
> have used SIMs for 5 years or more. The work phones have all been
> Cingular, now AT&T.
I guess Verizon does things differently than the other carriers.
Can you reprogram those phones to use other carriers?
Legally?
AB
>>
>> The last 4 or 5 phones I had used SIMs. I use prepaid because I don't
>> talk much (and it keeps cost down to around $100-180/year). I've had
>> Tracfone (Cingular service), NET10 (also Cingular), Virgin Mobile (the
>> worst of the worst, Sprint I think) and T-Mobile, all of which used
>> SIMs.
>
> Removable SIM card? Or hard wired to the unit?
> Ok, I've just never seen one and I've used ATT in the past but
> have been using Verizon for the last 7 years or so. No Verizon
> phone I have ever seen has a removable SIM.
All of what I'm talking about are removeable. In fact, when we get the
phones at work, the SIM and phone are separate. If we swap a phone, we
change the SIM to the new instrument and it automatically registers
that number with the new phone. With a new activation, we have to call
it in with the IMEI and SIM number to get a phone number assigned. From
then on that number will remain with that SIM unless it gets lost,
stolen or damaged, or one of the rare times when we have to upgrade
SIMs occurs.
>> Every one of the phones we deal with where I work (hundreds of them)
>> have used SIMs for 5 years or more. The work phones have all been
>> Cingular, now AT&T.
>
> I guess Verizon does things differently than the other carriers.
> Can you reprogram those phones to use other carriers?
> Legally?
I don't know about legal, but yes, they can be reprogrammed. I suspect
that once the service obligation is fulfilled, the provider can't do
anything about reprogramming the instrument. They certainly won't ask
for the phone back. But it's just a guess as to legality.
--
I don't want much from you, just your total submission.
waterskidoo
> All of what I'm talking about are removeable. In fact, when we get the
> phones at work, the SIM and phone are separate. If we swap a phone, we
> change the SIM to the new instrument and it automatically registers
> that number with the new phone. With a new activation, we have to call
> it in with the IMEI and SIM number to get a phone number assigned. From
> then on that number will remain with that SIM unless it gets lost,
> stolen or damaged, or one of the rare times when we have to upgrade
> SIMs occurs.
Interesting, I need to get out more often because like I said I have
never seen this with any of the phones I have used with the exception
of the Blackberry, which works as you describe.
> I don't know about legal, but yes, they can be reprogrammed. I suspect
> that once the service obligation is fulfilled, the provider can't do
> anything about reprogramming the instrument. They certainly won't ask
> for the phone back. But it's just a guess as to legality.
OIC.
Maybe that's what ebay sellers mean when they *unlocked*.
I always assumed that meant *stolen* and they cracked the password
and or changed the ESN number. As you can see, I know little about
cell phones :(
My point was that the iPhone being tied to ATT really isn't that
different from buying a phone with a contract from any of the
other providers. Even if you can move the phone to another carrier
you are still locked into the contract because nobody in their
right mind *pays* full price for a phone. They get a one or two
year contract and get a heavily discounted price.
I don't really see what the fuss is though, I use a phone as a
phone and that's it. Occasional pictures and a video once in a
while but for the most part it's just a phone to me.
That being said, I think the iPhone is brilliant. My sister
has one and it's pretty crazy. The plan she has is about the
same cost as my Verizon plan. Would I pay $500 for the thing?
No, but only because I already have an mp3 player and I don't think
I would use all the features that the iPhone has. I'm sure
they will be all over school though.
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
most new phones have SIM cards. I know mine, my wifes, and both of our
previous ones do/did. There are probably some that don't, but they are
the exception now I think.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program"
-- Larry Niven
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 05:56:57 +0000 (UTC),
waterskidoo <water....@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2007-07-05, AB <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Besides that, one can go to Verizon, Sprint (I think), AT&T, T-Mobile,
>> etc and get a RAZR that works with that provider. One can *only* use
>> Crapple's phone with AT&T, IMHO the worst provider on most things,
>> which probably reflects in their wireless service, too. And none of the
>> RAZR providers charge $500 to get the same capability as what His
>> Steveness is pushing.
>
> For the Razr maybe, but some phones are exclusive to the carrier.
> The LG8700 and the LG Chocolate for example are exclusive to
> Verizon. Also as Tim Smith pointed out, reprogramming the SIM
> is not an option for most phones, in the USA anyway.
>
Both LG8700 and Chocolate have plenty of hits on a google for unlocking
them. I don't have one, so I can verify them, but unless there's a big
conspiracy, it looks like you can indeed unlock them
>
>> So even if one can unlock the whyPhone at some point, the RAZR will
>> still have a leg up.
>
> To compare the Razr to the iPhone is silly.
> Even the LG Vx-8700 which clobbers the Razr for features, styling
> and so forth doesn't compare to the iPhone.
> I fail to understand why this group hates the iPhone so much?
> It looks like a major case of sour grapes to me.
> Why? Apple gets loads of attention when they release products
> and Linux doesn't. Apple's products are unique, every single
> one of them from the iMac to the iPod and now to the iPhone.
> Overpriced? Maybe, but people are waiting in line to get them
> which can't be said for anything Linux based that I know of.
>
The only relevent point on the iPhone to me is that I am unwilling to
pay $500-$600 for one.
I'll wait for the market to stabilize, and see what else pops up.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
The mouth of a perfectly happy man is filled with beer.
--Ancient Egyptian Wisdom, 2200 B.C.
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:30:33 -0700,
Tim Smith <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> (A few years ago, another big barrier to switching carries was dropped.
> It used to be here that each cell phone service provider was allocated a
> pool of phone numbers, and to use their service, you had to have a
> number from their pool. So, when I switched from AT&T to Sprint, I had
> to give up my AT&T number and get a Sprint number. That was changed,
> and now you can take your number with you. So, if I go from Sprint back
> to AT&T, my number will go with me. That greatly lowered the barrier to
> switching carrier. Actually, this number portability also works between
> cell providers and land line providers, so basically as long as I live
> in a geographical area that is served by my area code, I can keep my
> number no matter what provider or style of phone service I choose).
>
As an aside, one of my coworkers is from the SF Bay area and still has
his Cellphone number with a 510 area code. (I think that's the number,
can't be arsed to check the dir right now.)
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
The real fun of living wisely is that you get to feel smug about it
-- Hobbes
waterskidoo
>
> most new phones have SIM cards. I know mine, my wifes, and both of our
> previous ones do/did. There are probably some that don't, but they are
> the exception now I think.
Now you made me take the back off my LG VX8700, which is the
latest and greatest from Verizon. I don't see a SIM card,
however there is a label there and I can feel something
under it which I suspect might be the card.
The label is about the size of the SIM card in the
Blackberry I used to have.
Kier
All the mobiles I've had have easily accessible SIMs - when you buy a
pay-and-go, you have to install the SIM yourself. They can be bought at
any street market too, in the UK.
--
Kier
Thufir
Heh. I've only had a few cell phones, but they've all had SIM cards like
this, easily visible under the battery. In fact, some local cell phone
carriers advertise new SIM chips, from time to time.
In europe I understand that it's quite frequently done, and that you
don't even need to unlock the phone. Of course, the phones have a higher
price tag because they're unlocked.
-Thufir
Thufir
>> The last 4 or 5 phones I had used SIMs. I use prepaid because I don't
>> talk much (and it keeps cost down to around $100-180/year). I've had
>> Tracfone (Cingular service), NET10 (also Cingular), Virgin Mobile (the
>> worst of the worst, Sprint I think) and T-Mobile, all of which used
>> SIMs.
>
> Removable SIM card? Or hard wired to the unit? Ok, I've just never seen
> one and I've used ATT in the past but have been using Verizon for the
> last 7 years or so. No Verizon phone I have ever seen has a removable
> SIM.
It's a standard feature. Usually you have to remove the battery to see
the SIM. Of course, the phone must be unlocked if you put in a
competitors SIM. Not sure what happens with the iPhone, but I'm doubting
it's either unlockable or that it otherwise wouldn't work.
-Thufir
Thufir
> I have to buy a new phone from
> them. My Treo has firmware that is specific to Sprint, and Verizon
> would not be willing to replace that with Verizon firmware (and I'm not
> sure they could--the phone might only be able to get new firmware from
> Sprint).
Quite often there's an "unlocking" service which business's advertise.
Since it's advertised, I'm thinking it's legal. I'm guessing that it's
going to depend on the phone, though. Probably the iPhone cannot be
unlocked.
-Thufir
Thufir
> Both LG8700 and Chocolate have plenty of hits on a google for unlocking
> them. I don't have one, so I can verify them, but unless there's a big
> conspiracy, it looks like you can indeed unlock them
"These unlocked phones come from a carrier, operator or provider. These
phones were originally locked to a specific service provider (for
example, T-Mobile or Cingular). They are unlocked by means of unlocking
codes or software."
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlocked_gsm_phone>
-Thufir
Tim Smith
Jim Richardson <war...@eskimo.com> wrote:
> As an aside, one of my coworkers is from the SF Bay area and still has
> his Cellphone number with a 510 area code. (I think that's the number,
> can't be arsed to check the dir right now.)
He may run into problems if he tries to change carriers. Number
portability is only required within regions served by the same area code.
This typically arises when someone moves from one area to another,
without changing phone companies. I believe in theory the phone company
is suppose to make them get a new number in the new area code, but I
don't think any enforce that. With the plans most offer now, they don't
care where you are when using the network, so they just take the easy
way out, and to them a move just requires changing your billing address.
When asked to port a number from another company, though, many will
check. AT&T is one that checks, so some iPhone customers hit this, and
it made the news. A workaround people found was when activating, give
an address in the old area code, wait for the number to be ported, and
then go do a change of address to your real address. Apparently, AT&T
is like most others, in that they don't care where you move once you've
got service.
--
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
It's much more successful with locked GSM phones. Those can generally
be unlocked to work on other GSM carriers.
With non-GSM carriers, it's much less likely to work. People have had
some success unlocking Sprint phones and using them on Verizon, for
instance, but the phones often have limits on Verizon, such as not being
able to accept firmware updates from Verizon, and not being able to do
online functions other than call functions (e.g., voice only, no data).
--
--Tim Smith
![[H]omer's profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWMQWyYwHeIwxhG3nGUeGWmLQD0R8TeZrvdWDiv5-2S_z3rHg=s40-c)
[H]omer
> On 2007-07-05, Thufir <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Usually you can just take the phone to an unlocking service, then pop in
>> a new SIM. Is this not possible with RAZR and RAZR2 ?
>> -Thufir
>
> I don't think so because the SIM is not accessible like it is say on
> the Blackberry where it is located under the battery.
Can't speak for the RAZR2, but I own a RAZR, and the SIM *is*
accessible, the phone can be unlocked, and indeed mine is.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Computer games don’t affect kids, I mean if Pac man affected us as
| kids, we’d all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills
| and listening to repetitive music." - Kristian Wilson, Nintendo
`----
Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.21-1.3194.fc7
11:48:21 up 4 days, 10:42, 3 users, load average: 0.25, 0.49, 0.52
Mark Kent
The reason they are locked is because the carriers lose money on deals
unless they run for the intended period. In spite of many appearances,
mobile phones are, in fact, both complex devices and expensive to make.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
| Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
| My (new) blog: http://www.thereisnomagic.org |
Mark Kent
> Verily I say unto thee, that waterskidoo spake thusly:
>> On 2007-07-05, Thufir <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Usually you can just take the phone to an unlocking service, then pop in
>>> a new SIM. Is this not possible with RAZR and RAZR2 ?
>>> -Thufir
>>
>> I don't think so because the SIM is not accessible like it is say on
>> the Blackberry where it is located under the battery.
>
> Can't speak for the RAZR2, but I own a RAZR, and the SIM *is*
> accessible, the phone can be unlocked, and indeed mine is.
>
I've never seen a phone from Motorola, or from anyone else, where you
couldn't change the SIM.
Mark Kent
> On 2007-07-05, AB <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> All of what I'm talking about are removeable. In fact, when we get the
>> phones at work, the SIM and phone are separate. If we swap a phone, we
>> change the SIM to the new instrument and it automatically registers
>> that number with the new phone. With a new activation, we have to call
>> it in with the IMEI and SIM number to get a phone number assigned. From
>> then on that number will remain with that SIM unless it gets lost,
>> stolen or damaged, or one of the rare times when we have to upgrade
>> SIMs occurs.
>
> Interesting, I need to get out more often because like I said I have
> never seen this with any of the phones I have used with the exception
> of the Blackberry, which works as you describe.
>
I've personally never seen one where you couldn't change the SIM. I've
had mobile phones for the last almost 20 years, and Mrs Mark works for a
mobile company in the UK, and was involved in 3G network rollout and
trials, so I've seen all kinds of phones from all kinds of suppliers, of
pretty much all generations post analogue.
Mark Kent
You can get either type here. Most phones are locked to a network, but
typically can be unlocked. Some phones are unlocked, but they are more
expensive because there is no subsidy.
[H]omer
> I've never seen a phone from Motorola, or from anyone else, where you
> couldn't change the SIM.
>
I've yet to encounter a mobile phone that couldn't be unlocked either.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Computer games don’t affect kids, I mean if Pac man affected us as
| kids, we’d all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills
| and listening to repetitive music." - Kristian Wilson, Nintendo
`----
Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.21-1.3194.fc7
14:11:28 up 4 days, 13:05, 3 users, load average: 1.14, 0.37, 0.20
Mark Kent
> Verily I say unto thee, that Mark Kent spake thusly:
>
>> I've never seen a phone from Motorola, or from anyone else, where you
>> couldn't change the SIM.
>>
>
> I've yet to encounter a mobile phone that couldn't be unlocked either.
>
I'm not convinced that there has ever been a phone with built-in IMSEI
number made, whereas the IMEI number /is/ embedded in the phone, which
is how operators can ban devices from the network, even if the SIM is
changed (the SIM containing the IMSEI number, of course).
Perhaps there were some phones built for the US qualcomm proprietary
system whose name escapes me, didn't have IMSEIs, and thus didn't have
SIMs?
Hadron Quark
> In article <f6hod7$f0u$4...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> waterskidoo <water....@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 2007-07-05, Thufir <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Usually you can just take the phone to an unlocking service, then pop in
>> > a new SIM. Is this not possible with RAZR and RAZR2 ?
>> > -Thufir
>>
>> I don't think so because the SIM is not accessible like it is say on
>> the Blackberry where it is located under the battery.
>
> The iPhone SIM is accessible and easy to remove:
>
> <http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9738138-1.html>
Another myth busted.
--
'Mounting' is used for three things: climbing on a horse, linking in a
hard disk unit in data systems, and, well, mounting during sex.
-- Christa Keil
waterskidoo
I think Verizon must bury the card under the label which is under the battery.
I'm totally off course with cell phone technology, as can be seen
from this thread. Sorry.
waterskidoo
> With non-GSM carriers, it's much less likely to work. People have had
> some success unlocking Sprint phones and using them on Verizon, for
> instance, but the phones often have limits on Verizon, such as not being
> able to accept firmware updates from Verizon, and not being able to do
> online functions other than call functions (e.g., voice only, no data).
I'm thinking Verizon is the oddball in this discussion. It appears that
my LG VX-8700 might have a sim card under the label which resides
under the battery. I've never seen a Verizon phone with an easily
removable SIM, like the Blackberry for example.
waterskidoo
> [H]omer <sp...@uce.gov> espoused:
>> Verily I say unto thee, that waterskidoo spake thusly:
>>> On 2007-07-05, Thufir <hawat....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Usually you can just take the phone to an unlocking service, then pop in
>>>> a new SIM. Is this not possible with RAZR and RAZR2 ?
>>>> -Thufir
>>>
>>> I don't think so because the SIM is not accessible like it is say on
>>> the Blackberry where it is located under the battery.
>>
>> Can't speak for the RAZR2, but I own a RAZR, and the SIM *is*
>> accessible, the phone can be unlocked, and indeed mine is.
>>
>
> I've never seen a phone from Motorola, or from anyone else, where you
> couldn't change the SIM.
that one is located under a label as well. I don't have the phone anymore
so I can't check.
I think Verizon is burying the SIM card under a label which I why
I have never seen one.
My mistake, but I've learned a lot about cell phones from this thread.
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
That makes sense.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
The major advances in civilization are processes that all but wreck the
societies in which they occur.
-- A.N. Whitehead
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
They sell those in the grocery stores now. I've thought about getting
one as a backup phone "just in case"
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
A ruler must learn to be other than good. -- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince.
Kier
Hey, no problemo. Maybe it's different where you are. In all the phones
I've had the SIM is under the battery, usually with a little clip or
something to hold it in place. Whether it's different with a contract
phone, I can't say, as I've always had pay-as-you-go phones.
--
Kier
Mark Kent
It's possible also that the Qualcomm/CDMA phones were different, too, as
I don't know if they used IMEI and IMSEIs like the GSM networks do, so
perhaps there was no SIM in such phones.
Mark Kent
It depends very much on whether you're talking about mobile or fixed
networks, since the numbering works in a similar, but different, way.
In fixed networks, E.164 phone numbers are assigned to a line-card on
a local exchange, and area codes are the actual address of the local
switches (exchanges). Number portability in the US is achieved through
an IN system which maps "public" numbers to "network" numbers, which is
a good system, but everyone has to bear the cost. In the UK, the system
is much more noddy, essentially involving writing forwarding rules in
the switch routeing tables onto the next carrier which the customer went
to. It's messy, complicated and prone to all kinds of errors.
Thus, number portability in the fixed network is really about forwarding
calls permanently.
As IN systems have become more effective, and the network more flexible,
the only thing stopping all numbers becoming non-geographic is the
licensing costs of using the IN systems - typically, each database
lookup is charged for, so the cost to the operator of a "portable"
number is presently higher than that of a non-portable number.
The mobile phone system uses something very similar to the IN number
translation method, where the mobile has a "public" number which is the
one which people dial, and a "private" number assigned by the serving
Location Register. The serving location register informs the Home
Location Register that it currently has the phone, and the HLR issues a
new routeing pointer into the IN database which controls routeing. The
system is very effective, and permits global roaming on GSM systems.
So, to change a phone number for a mobile phone is a simple matter of
moving the IMSEI reference to the new Home Location Register - HLR.
After that, the network will just work.
I don't know about how the old-style proprietary CDMA networks work,
although I suspect that it is a similar approach.
waterskidoo
> It's possible also that the Qualcomm/CDMA phones were different, too, as
> I don't know if they used IMEI and IMSEIs like the GSM networks do, so
> perhaps there was no SIM in such phones.
You might have figured it out. My LG 8700 says Qualcomm on the back
and I am pretty sure my Moto said the same thing.
Anyway, it's nice to see how the rest of the earth does things!
Mark Kent
> On 2007-07-08, Mark Kent <mark...@demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> It's possible also that the Qualcomm/CDMA phones were different, too, as
>> I don't know if they used IMEI and IMSEIs like the GSM networks do, so
>> perhaps there was no SIM in such phones.
>
> You might have figured it out. My LG 8700 says Qualcomm on the back
> and I am pretty sure my Moto said the same thing.
It would explain why I've never seen one without a SIM, too.
> Anyway, it's nice to see how the rest of the earth does things!
>
There was pressure from some US people to force Iraq onto a CDMA network
after the second round of the Iraq war; I recall that the justification
was that GSM was French, not American.
[H]omer
> There was pressure from some US people to force Iraq onto a CDMA
> network after the second round of the Iraq war; I recall that the
> justification was that GSM was French, not American.
Whilst over in Kuwait, one of the catering contractors with whom I
became friendly (one of the few civilian Brits over there) told me
they'd been discouraged from referring to chips as "French Fries", but
rather just to call them "Fries". The Jarheads typically referred to
them as "Freedom Fries", presumably out of spite towards the French.
Yup, there's nothing like a big plate of Freedom Fries, after spending
the day liberating all those poor captive barrels of oil.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Computer games don’t affect kids, I mean if Pac man affected us as
| kids, we’d all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills
| and listening to repetitive music." - Kristian Wilson, Nintendo
`----
Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.21-1.3194.fc7
17:31:00 up 8 days, 16:25, 0 users, load average: 0.57, 0.35, 0.27
waterskidoo
> Verily I say unto thee, that Mark Kent spake thusly:
>
> became friendly (one of the few civilian Brits over there) told me
> they'd been discouraged from referring to chips as "French Fries", but
> rather just to call them "Fries". The Jarheads typically referred to
> them as "Freedom Fries", presumably out of spite towards the French.
I had a contract job once where I worked in a plant where mainframe
computers were assembled. Of course this necessitated using tools of
various type including 'diagonal wire cutters', commonly referred to
as 'dikes' as in pass me the 'dikes'. We were instructed to not
use that word but to call them 'side-cutters' because the company
employed a large number of lesbian workers.
To this day every time I spot what I think might be a lesbian
I say to myself 'there goes another side-cutter'.
Mark Kent
Thufir
>> Anyway, it's nice to see how the rest of the earth does things!
>>
>>
> There was pressure from some US people to force Iraq onto a CDMA network
> after the second round of the Iraq war; I recall that the justification
> was that GSM was French, not American.
classic.
-Thufir
Mark Kent
Quite. It's particularly amusing as GSM is, more or less, a global
standard anyway.