Windows upgrade: cheaper and technically superior to Linux
DFS
versions of Microsoft Windows and Office for the newest versions [Windows XP
and Office XP] - as cheaper and technically superior."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2003-07-13-microsoft-linux-munich_x.htm
The poor saps in Munich city hall are going to be *royally pissed* when
they're forced to switch from MS Office to the clunky OpenOffice and strange
OSS apps.
I know it's asking too much, but maybe one of the German cola bozos will
grow a pair of balls and translate and post the horror stories coming over
the next couple years as Munich downgrades to Linux/OSS for a mere $45
million (today's exchange rates) for just 14,000 users. Truly a fiasco.
B Gruff
>
> I know it's asking too much, but maybe one of the German cola bozos will
> grow a pair of balls and translate and post the horror stories coming over
> the next couple years as Munich downgrades to Linux/OSS for a mere $45
> million (today's exchange rates) for just 14,000 users. Truly a fiasco.
You keep posting incorrect numbers like that.
The original MS quote was *very* slightly less than the project estimate.
It was then reduced by about 40% by MS - because of the Linux threat!
That Linux estimate has increased slightly - less than 10% - since the
project started, but of the project estimate, almost 40% is there (not yet
spent) for "re-training".
Dollar fluctuation would have made no difference at all. Do you *really*
believe that (even) U.S. companies quote their prices in Germany in U.S.
dollars? The only difference that the exchange rate change would have made
is that Microsoft would have received more dollars!
In fact, if you insist on quoting in dollars, the original Microsoft quote
was *more* than the project will have cost the Germans! They are working
in Euro, and spending those Euro in Germany, whereas the dollars would have
gone to the U.S.
ray
> July 2003: "Unilog judged Microsoft's proposal - to swap out all existing
> versions of Microsoft Windows and Office for the newest versions [Windows XP
> and Office XP] - as cheaper and technically superior."
You should point that out to the poor folks over in
microsoft.public.windows.vista.general who are toiling over all the
problems involved with switching to vista.
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2003-07-13-microsoft-linux-munich_x.htm
>
> The poor saps in Munich city hall are going to be *royally pissed* when
> they're forced to switch from MS Office to the clunky OpenOffice and strange
> OSS apps.
I would be too. Fortunately, OpenOffice is not 'clunky' and the OSS apps
are not 'strange'.
Hadron Quark
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:10:25 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> July 2003: "Unilog judged Microsoft's proposal - to swap out all existing
>> versions of Microsoft Windows and Office for the newest versions [Windows XP
>> and Office XP] - as cheaper and technically superior."
>
> You should point that out to the poor folks over in
> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general who are toiling over all the
> problems involved with switching to vista.
>
>
>>
>> http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2003-07-13-microsoft-linux-munich_x.htm
>>
>> The poor saps in Munich city hall are going to be *royally pissed* when
>> they're forced to switch from MS Office to the clunky OpenOffice and strange
>> OSS apps.
>
> I would be too. Fortunately, OpenOffice is not 'clunky' and the OSS apps
> are not 'strange'.
Compare to Office, OpenOffice is very clunky.
The Ghost In The Machine
<hadro...@gmail.com>
wrote
on Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:07:16 +0100
<87ps7lg...@gmail.com>:
Wow, such a specific description. Care to be a little more vague? :-P
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
People think that libraries are safe. They're wrong. They have ideas.
(Also occasionally ectoplasmic slime and cute librarians.)
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
The Ghost In The Machine
<r...@zianet.com>
wrote
on Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:04:17 -0700
<pan.2007.03.07....@zianet.com>:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:10:25 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> July 2003: "Unilog judged Microsoft's proposal - to swap out all existing
>> versions of Microsoft Windows and Office for the newest versions [Windows XP
>> and Office XP] - as cheaper and technically superior."
>
> You should point that out to the poor folks over in
> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general who are toiling over all the
> problems involved with switching to vista.
>
Problems? Vista? I thought everyone here was of the opinion
that Vista was the absolute most modern OS there ever was and
that Linux was stone age or something.
Oh, wait, those are the Wintrolls.
:-)
>
>>
>> http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2003-07-13-microsoft-linux-munich_x.htm
>>
>> The poor saps in Munich city hall are going to be *royally pissed* when
>> they're forced to switch from MS Office to the clunky OpenOffice and strange
>> OSS apps.
>
> I would be too. Fortunately, OpenOffice is not 'clunky' and the OSS apps
> are not 'strange'.
>
OO is a bit big, but it's very featureful. There's a
few quirks in the drawing area but I'd have to work on
describing them properly; I'm a bit of a control freak
and want the center to be exactly in the center. :-) I'm
still not enthralled with OO's style handling but I'm not
sure what to replace it with yet, and the current style
handling does work (if I want italics, I press italics),
but that's a bit low-level.
However, OSS apps are strange because they're not
Microsoft, if one's used to Microsoft. :-) It's a
learning curve, and one at least has to figure out that
this menu is over here, rather than there. I've had to
search for things in OO, and presumably so would some
others. (I don't use Microsoft much -- and I don't use
OO that much either; my idea of a good editor is either
Eclipse during Java development, or HTML/XML-enabled
vim during website development, with a browser to view
the results.)
>
>>
>> I know it's asking too much, but maybe one of the German cola bozos will
>> grow a pair of balls and translate and post the horror stories coming over
>> the next couple years as Munich downgrades to Linux/OSS for a mere $45
>> million (today's exchange rates) for just 14,000 users. Truly a fiasco.
>
One wonders if DFS has done research on a company doing
a O2003->O2007 transition with the new "ribbon".
ray
I guess that would be your opinion. I find that it is not.
Hadron Quark
Ian Semmel
"DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
news:w2qHh.3144$m7....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
What is never publicised in these sorts of stories is why the decision to go
Linux was made.
Usually it is because there is some zealot who has wormed his way in to a
position of influence in the organisation and has blinded the
decision-makers with the usual set of lies, half-truths and bullshit.
In the normal course of events, once the trial group gets this weird desktop
forced on them and they discover that nothing works, the project is quietly
dropped.
Kier
>
>
> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
> news:w2qHh.3144$m7....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>> July 2003: "Unilog judged Microsoft's proposal - to swap out all existing
>> versions of Microsoft Windows and Office for the newest versions [Windows
>> XP and Office XP] - as cheaper and technically superior."
>>
>> http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2003-07-13-microsoft-linux-munich_x.htm
>>
>> The poor saps in Munich city hall are going to be *royally pissed* when
>> they're forced to switch from MS Office to the clunky OpenOffice and
>> strange OSS apps.
>>
>> I know it's asking too much, but maybe one of the German cola bozos will
>> grow a pair of balls and translate and post the horror stories coming over
>> the next couple years as Munich downgrades to Linux/OSS for a mere $45
>> million (today's exchange rates) for just 14,000 users. Truly a fiasco.
>
> What is never publicised in these sorts of stories is why the decision to go
> Linux was made.
>
> Usually it is because there is some zealot who has wormed his way in to a
> position of influence in the organisation and has blinded the
> decision-makers with the usual set of lies, half-truths and bullshit.
You're the one slinging the bullshit.
>
> In the normal course of events, once the trial group gets this weird desktop
> forced on them and they discover that nothing works, the project is quietly
> dropped.
Of course, because things *do* work in Linux, unlike your foolish claim,
that doesn't happen. For obvious reasons, apps designed for Windows won't
work (except through Wine/CrossOverOffice or in VMs), but that hardly
matters if evertyoneone is using Linux.
It's funny, you claim to ber a Linux user, yet here you are calling the
Linux desktop weird, and saying nothing works. One then has to wonder why
you're using such a supposed poor platform.
I don't find the Gnome desktop to be even slightly weird, and it's all
working. What are you using? twm?
--
Kier
The Ghost In The Machine
<val...@tiscali.co.uk>
wrote
on Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:20:07 +0000
<pan.2007.03.07....@tiscali.co.uk>:
> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:02:20 +0000, Ian Semmel wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>> news:w2qHh.3144$m7....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>>> July 2003: "Unilog judged Microsoft's proposal - to swap out all existing
>>> versions of Microsoft Windows and Office for the newest versions [Windows
>>> XP and Office XP] - as cheaper and technically superior."
>>>
>>> http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2003-07-13-microsoft-linux-munich_x.htm
>>>
>>> The poor saps in Munich city hall are going to be *royally pissed* when
>>> they're forced to switch from MS Office to the clunky OpenOffice and
>>> strange OSS apps.
>>>
>>> I know it's asking too much, but maybe one of the German cola bozos will
>>> grow a pair of balls and translate and post the horror stories coming over
>>> the next couple years as Munich downgrades to Linux/OSS for a mere $45
>>> million (today's exchange rates) for just 14,000 users. Truly a fiasco.
>>
>> What is never publicised in these sorts of stories is why the decision to go
>> Linux was made.
>>
>> Usually it is because there is some zealot who has wormed his way in to a
>> position of influence in the organisation and has blinded the
>> decision-makers with the usual set of lies, half-truths and bullshit.
>
> You're the one slinging the bullshit.
>
I'm not entirely sure. In some organizations, it may very well take
zealotry to effect any changes.
>>
>> In the normal course of events, once the trial group gets this weird desktop
>> forced on them and they discover that nothing works, the project is quietly
>> dropped.
>
> Of course, because things *do* work in Linux, unlike your foolish claim,
> that doesn't happen. For obvious reasons, apps designed for Windows won't
> work (except through Wine/CrossOverOffice or in VMs), but that hardly
> matters if evertyoneone is using Linux.
>
> It's funny, you claim to ber a Linux user, yet here you are calling the
> Linux desktop weird, and saying nothing works. One then has to wonder why
> you're using such a supposed poor platform.
>
> I don't find the Gnome desktop to be even slightly weird, and it's all
> working. What are you using? twm?
>
Well, twm *does* work, but I'd hardly call it normal nowadays. :-)
It does have a very light footprint, though.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Linux. Because it's not the desktop that's
important, it's the ability to DO something
with it.
B Gruff
Yep - just like this one. The way things are going it sounds as though they
are already regretting the decision...... or perhaps not:-
http://europa.eu.int/idabc/en/document/2204/470
B Gruff
>
> What is never publicised in these sorts of stories is why the decision to
> go Linux was made.
>
> Usually it is because there is some zealot who has wormed his way in to a
> position of influence in the organisation and has blinded the
> decision-makers with the usual set of lies, half-truths and bullshit.
>
> In the normal course of events, once the trial group gets this weird
> desktop forced on them and they discover that nothing works, the project
> is quietly dropped.
Oh - and perhaps you could cite a few examples for us?
In fact, following on from your "logic" perhaps you could explain to us why
it is that MS doesn't simply let more organisations do just that - do the
conversion, and then use them as examples of failure?
Am I to believe that this is because MS is so altruistic, and doesn't want
people to be hurt financially?
Is that why the very highest-level MS people fly around the world to offer
40%+ discounts to stay with MS rather than switch?
....or is it just that you are a prat?
Dean G.
> July 2003: "Unilog judged Microsoft's proposal - to swap out all existing
> versions of Microsoft Windows and Office for the newest versions [Windows XP
> and Office XP] - as cheaper and technically superior."
>
However :
"On price and technical criteria the advantage was Microsoft's, but
the gap was not that big," Maack says. "On strategic issues, it was
clearly open-source, and the gap was very great."
Dean G.
ray
>>>> I would be too. Fortunately, OpenOffice is not 'clunky' and the OSS apps
>>>> are not 'strange'.
>>>
>>> Compare to Office, OpenOffice is very clunky.
>>
>> I guess that would be your opinion. I find that it is not.
>>
>
> I dont think you use Office. I use both.
I have used both, as well.
Hadron Quark
> Hadron Quark wrote:
>
>>
>> I dont think you use Office. I use both.
>
> If OpenOffice is so clunky, why to use it? :P
Err, because it runs on Linux & I use Linux. Your point is what? Just
because I use it, it doesn't mean I have to lie to defend it. It's a
very nice piece of SW (for free), but not in the same league as office
for slickness and response.
--
DFS
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Hadron Quark
>> Compare to Office, OpenOffice is very clunky.
>
> Wow, such a specific description. Care to be a little more vague? :-P
If you insist.
* launch slow to OpenOffice
* add the numbers 1-9 to a 3x3 grid, like so:
1 4 7
2 5 8
3 6 9
* highlight the middle block and move it and drop it on the 7,8,9 block.
* watch your data be overwritten w/o warning
(Excel asks if you want to replace the contents - of course, like a
well-written app should)
DFS
We'll see. It's been 3+ years already, and another 3 before they finish
this supposed "migration". The employees are going to revolt - that's a
guarantee.
Alex Terekhov recently alluded to Munich buying Win2K licenses, but I
couldn't find the supporting evidence in the link he provided.
Alexander Terekhov
DFS wrote:
[...]
> Alex Terekhov recently alluded to Munich buying Win2K licenses, but I
> couldn't find the supporting evidence in the link he provided.
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/01/02/munich_buys_windows_2000/
http://www.usedsoft.com/images/pdf/presseinfo/usedSoft_PM_Stadt_Muenchen_2007-01-02.pdf
regards,
alexander.
Linonut
Actually, don't you find a product prompting you all the time a bit
annoying?
Especially since, if you do goof, all you have to do is Undo?
That, to me, seems more "professional". Do what the user says, without
question, and leave them a way to back out.
Now, OpenOffice will warn you if you do the above using a Cut/Paste
movement, rather than a Drag movement. That does seem inconsistent and
"unprofessional" to me. Of course, there is an option in Calc to turn
that warning off.
--
Press "Any" key to continue.
Linonut
> Ian Semmel wrote:
>> In the normal course of events, once the trial group gets this weird
>> desktop forced on them and they discover that nothing works, the
>> project is quietly dropped.
>
> We'll see. It's been 3+ years already, and another 3 before they finish
> this supposed "migration". The employees are going to revolt - that's a
> guarantee.
>
> Alex Terekhov recently alluded to Munich buying Win2K licenses, but I
> couldn't find the supporting evidence in the link he provided.
The three of you are idiots on this topic.
And you can bet that Microsoft or its fans have been doing all that they
can to torpedo this project. And failing.
--
"When we do a new version we put in lots of new things that people (ask) for.
And so, in no sense, is stability a reason to move to a new version. It's
never a reason." -- Bill Gates, FOCUS interview
http://www.cantrip.org/nobugs.html
Hadron Quark
What happened to their embracing of the Free SW lifestyle?
I guess they want a fixed, reliable OS that doesn't detect patches every 3 minutes.
DFS
Very good! Thanks alexander.
The Ghost In The Machine
<87slcge...@gmail.com>:
> Andrea <a.libiszewski@gazeta_nospam.pl> writes:
>
>> Hadron Quark wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I dont think you use Office. I use both.
>>
>> If OpenOffice is so clunky, why to use it? :P
>
> Err, because it runs on Linux & I use Linux.
Cedega, MS Office.
[rest snipped]
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #2239120:
void f(char *p) {char *q = p; strcpy(p,q); }
nick
* launch MS Excel
* add the numbers 1-9 to a 3x3 grid, like so:
1 4 7
2 5 8
3 6 9
* highlight the middle block and move it and drop it on the 7,8,9 block.
* watch your data be overwritten after dismissing the annoying dialog.
* save your document
* change your mind and decide you want to undo that overwrite.
Bummer.
(OO will undo that action at your request - of course, like a
well-written app should)
Linonut
> * launch MS Excel
>
> * add the numbers 1-9 to a 3x3 grid, like so:
>
> 1 4 7
> 2 5 8
> 3 6 9
>
>
> * highlight the middle block and move it and drop it on the 7,8,9 block.
>
> * watch your data be overwritten after dismissing the annoying dialog.
Microsoft writes great nag-ware.
> * save your document
>
> * change your mind and decide you want to undo that overwrite.
> Bummer.
>
> (OO will undo that action at your request - of course, like a
> well-written app should)
Microsoft has the nag-ware paradigm down cold.
Sorry, yttrx.
--
The computer revolution is over. The computers won.