Digital Audio on Linux, Not a Joke
Bones
personal experience.
I recently decided to start using sound on my main PC again. I figured I
would install my old SB-16 card, install the KDE media package and maybe a
nice sample editor. I use Slackware, the "hard" distro, and while I was
doing a 2.2.20 kernel update, I switched on the options for OSS sound
support and the 'sb' kernel module.
After kernel compilation, I used isapnp tools to configure my card. Despite
the horror stories involving this, I simply typed 'pnpdump >
/etc/isapnp.conf', then "edited" the resulting file. I say "edited" because
the editing involves hitting the delete button several times to uncomment
some lines. Big deal. I then added some module options for sb.o to the
/etc/modules.conf file. Granted, I didn't have to do it this way, but it's
much more tidy. I uncommented the the sb.o module line out in rc.modules,
and rebooted the machine to load the new kernel.
The sound card was configured without incident, and the module loaded. I
went into KDE and tested the sound: Great! The next day I set out to find a
decent sample editor at DaveCentral ( http://linux.davecentral.com ). Well,
after scanning through 15 pages (out of 35) of sound utilities, I downloaded
Audacity, DAP, Ecasound/Ecawave, Glame and also some other unrelated items
such as Freeamp and various mixers.
I have all of that stuff compiled and install on the machine now, (I also
made nice packages -- soon to be Slackware packages -- out of the stuff.)
Some of the applications support direct-to-disk recording, which is one of
the things I'm looking for, so just for the heck of it, I created a 40MB PCM
file off of one of my CDs. But something was eerie about this. While
loading/saving the large file, and/or applying filters/transforms to it, my
machine doesn't stop responding like it did under Win95 with Creative Wave
and CoolEdit. The interface was still snappy, and I could still load and
work in other programs. Very nice indeed. I am so spoiled with Linux.
--
Bones
(fakemccoy at altavista dot com)
Peter
> The sound card was configured without incident, and the module loaded. I
> went into KDE and tested the sound: Great! The next day I set out to find
> a decent sample editor at DaveCentral ( http://linux.davecentral.com ).
> Well, after scanning through 15 pages (out of 35) of sound utilities, I
> downloaded Audacity, DAP, Ecasound/Ecawave, Glame and also some other
> unrelated items such as Freeamp and various mixers.
I use the DAP sample editor a lot.
> I have all of that stuff compiled and install on the machine now, (I also
> made nice packages -- soon to be Slackware packages -- out of the stuff.)
> Some of the applications support direct-to-disk recording, which is one of
> the things I'm looking for, so just for the heck of it, I created a 40MB
> PCM file off of one of my CDs. But something was eerie about this. While
> loading/saving the large file, and/or applying filters/transforms to it,
> my machine doesn't stop responding like it did under Win95 with Creative
> Wave and CoolEdit.
I agree, when CoolEdit or WaveLab or whatever were 'busy', I could just
wait or get a coffee, now I can enjoy flatfish's posts while DAP works.
Marcello Barboni
> You just lost average Joe as a customer.
> What's a file?
> How do I edit it?
> Where do I find it?
> how did you know what to type?
> What is command not found mean?
> Why doesn't the command work even though I can see it listed in the
> directory?
Man, your average Joe user sure is dumb.....
--
Barcollo, ma non mollo
philicorda
I'm afraid so.
A friend of mine bought a computer for music, and their first questions to
me were "How to I plug my guitar into that little jack?", "Which hole is
it?", and "Why can't I hear my guitar?".
It's easy to forget that many poeple have never even owned a computer, let
alone compiled the applications to record their music.
I would not recommend Linux to a musician at the moment, unless the
computer came pre-installed with everything they needed, and was very easy
to use. Demudi looked like a step in this direction, and the Ardour author
intends to provide dedicated audio computers with the multi track software,
a little like an industrial system. In this case, the user would probably
not even be aware the computer was running linux at all.
--
';:'
Jerry Nash
Flatfish is confusing wjbell with an average Joe.
Marcello Barboni
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:25:24 +0100, Marcello Barboni <nos...@nospam.it>
> wrote:
>
> Exactly.
>
> And another prime example of how out of touch with reality the LinoNuts
> are.
Well, come on! If average Joe is that dumb, he would find plenty of
difficulties even with windows:
-When should I singleclick and when shoud I doubleclick? There's no
consistency.
-Why should "make a boot floppy" be buried in the install/revove
applications applet?
-Why do I have to press the "start" button to shut down my machine?
The list could go on forever. I think that even Joe user before going
anwhere near a computer should study a bit.
Making an OS suitable for people like that means making a dumbed down OS
that no intelligent (computer-wise) person would ever want to touch.
IMHO
wjbell
>
> flatf...@mariana.trench wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:25:24 +0100, Marcello Barboni <nos...@nospam.it>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>flatf...@mariana.trench wrote:
> >>
> >>> You just lost average Joe as a customer.
> >>
> >>
> >>> What's a file?
> >>> How do I edit it?
> >>> Where do I find it?
> >>> how did you know what to type?
> >>> What is command not found mean?
> >>> Why doesn't the command work even though I can see it listed in the
> >>> directory?
> >>
> >>Man, your average Joe user sure is dumb.....
> >
> > Exactly.
> >
> > And another prime example of how out of touch with reality the LinoNuts
> > are.
>
> Well, come on! If average Joe is that dumb, he would find plenty of
> difficulties even with windows:
> -When should I singleclick and when shoud I doubleclick? There's no
> consistency.
> -Why should "make a boot floppy" be buried in the install/revove
> applications applet?
> -Why do I have to press the "start" button to shut down my machine?
That's so old. That the name the gave it to "start" navagation. Why in
kde is the logout selection under the K button. What is a K button
anyway? Is that suppose to stand for anything meaningful, or does it
stand for Kewl, like the window manager itself? Funny, though, how they
copied everything from MS right down to the taskbar and placement of the
"K" button.
Donn Miller
> That's so old. That the name the gave it to "start" navagation. Why in
> kde is the logout selection under the K button. What is a K button
> anyway? Is that suppose to stand for anything meaningful, or does it
> stand for Kewl, like the window manager itself? Funny, though, how they
> copied everything from MS right down to the taskbar and placement of the
> "K" button.
You're absolutely right. The Next interface was much better, IMO, which
is why I run Window Maker. I'm tired of Windows clones myself. It's
time for a completely new, original desktop. I'll think of something.
Not right now, though.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Darren
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:25:24 +0100, Marcello Barboni <nos...@nospam.it>
> wrote:
>
> Exactly.
>
> And another prime example of how out of touch with reality the LinoNuts
> are.
You are so full of shite .. as has been pointed out time after time ..
not even your precious MS desktop is as intuitive as you say Linux XF
should be ..
Darren
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:43:12 +0100, Peter <pet...@NOSPAMskynet.be>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I agree, when CoolEdit or WaveLab or whatever were 'busy', I could just
>>wait or get a coffee, now I can enjoy flatfish's posts while DAP works.
>
> I don't have any of these problems..
> At least you have taste :)
>
>
>>> The interface was still snappy, and I could still load
>
> What interface?
>
> # ?
>
>>> and work in other programs. Very nice indeed. I am so spoiled with
>>> Linux.
>
> Spoiled?
>
> You have no idea how much you are missing by running Linsux for DAW
> work.
>
>
>
Considering you have yet to post any of your results using those
programs, you're opinion isn't worth squat ..
Darren
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:33:40 +0100, Marcello Barboni <nos...@nospam.it>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Well, come on! If average Joe is that dumb, he would find plenty of
>>difficulties even with windows:
>
> He doesn't seem to be having too many problems considering Windows is
> about 90 percent or more of the desktop market.
>
> Linux?
>
>
> ,24 percent of the desktop market, and I think it is even less.
>
>
Damn all those 370,000,000 linux desktop users must be wrong.
.
> On 27 Feb 2002 21:25:23 GMT, Bo...@you.should.know (Bones) wrote:
>>Just thought I'd counter a similarly-named, buy derailed thread with my own
>>personal experience.
> Give me a sec while I cover my keyboard.
> ----------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Ok I'm back...You were saying?
>>I recently decided to start using sound on my main PC again.
> Classic.
> Things like sound, digital cameras, scanners, wheel mice and other nice things
> are such afterthoughts to the LinONuts....
Interesting. Theyre usually among my first thoughts; my digital cam works
fine with linux, as does my scanner and my SB Live Platinum card w/that
useless front panel. I recently (and easily) piped a 70 minute stream via
that nifty (and somewhat useless) optical jack to my minidisc recorder
even.
My wheel mouse works fine as well. So do "other things".
You must be doing it wrong.
-----.
--
Theres a hole in the world like a great black pit and
its filled with people who are filled with shit and the
vermin of the world inhabit it
Doug.M
What's you point ? I could easliy say that it is funny how M$ copied everything
form Apple. There is this old saying that maybe you should learn wjbell and I
don't know if they teach you this in Redmond but "Everything new is old and
everything old becomes new agian."
>
>>
>> The list could go on forever. I think that even Joe user before going
>> anwhere near a computer should study a bit.
>> Making an OS suitable for people like that means making a dumbed down OS
>> that no intelligent (computer-wise) person would ever want to touch.
>>
>> IMHO
>> --
>> Barcollo, ma non mollo
--
Dual-Booting Rig running Suse Linux 7.3 and Windows W2K ( for Win games only )
wjbell
Is that the latest version of the lino shuffle..?
GreyCloud
>
> On 27 Feb 2002 21:25:23 GMT, Bo...@you.should.know (Bones) wrote:
>
> >personal experience.
>
> ----------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Ok I'm back...You were saying?
>
A fish that barfs... how novel.
> >I recently decided to start using sound on my main PC again.
>
> Classic.
>
> Things like sound, digital cameras, scanners, wheel mice and other nice things
> are such afterthoughts to the LinONuts....
>
Typical nutter.
> > I figured I
> >would install my old SB-16 card, install the KDE media package and maybe a
> >nice sample editor. I use Slackware, the "hard" distro, and while I was
> >doing a 2.2.20 kernel update, I switched on the options for OSS sound
> >support and the 'sb' kernel module.
>
> You just lost average Joe as a customer.
>
No, you just got overwhelmed with knowledge is all.
Happens all the time to the low IQ types.
> All he did with Windows was turn the machine on......
>
And got a bsod in the process.
> >After kernel compilation, I used isapnp tools to configure my card. Despite
> >the horror stories involving this, I simply typed 'pnpdump >
> >/etc/isapnp.conf', then "edited" the resulting file. I say "edited" because
> >the editing involves hitting the delete button several times to uncomment
> >some lines.
>
> What's a file?
> How do I edit it?
> Where do I find it?
> how did you know what to type?
> What is command not found mean?
> Why doesn't the command work even though I can see it listed in the directory?
>
Happens to low IQed people... don't know what they're
looking at.
> Five hours of searching later....................
>
Stupidty takes its toll again,... couldn't find his ass with
both hands.
> Why didn't somebody tell me about ./pnpdump.
>
What's matter? Can't read?
> > Big deal. I then added some module options for sb.o to the
> >/etc/modules.conf file. Granted, I didn't have to do it this way, but it's
> >much more tidy. I uncommented the the sb.o module line out in rc.modules,
> >and rebooted the machine to load the new kernel.
>
> How did you know to do this?
> What does "modules.conf is later than etc"......mean?
> Does case matter?
> Is that a 0 or a o?
>
> >The sound card was configured without incident, and the module loaded. I
> >went into KDE and tested the sound: Great! The next day I set out to find a
> >decent sample editor at DaveCentral ( http://linux.davecentral.com ). Well,
> >after scanning through 15 pages (out of 35) of sound utilities, I downloaded
> >Audacity, DAP, Ecasound/Ecawave, Glame and also some other unrelated items
> >such as Freeamp and various mixers.
>
> Mostly toys and half done applications...
>
Then you should be very happy with XP toys.
> >I have all of that stuff compiled and install on the machine now, (I also
> >made nice packages -- soon to be Slackware packages -- out of the stuff.)
> >Some of the applications support direct-to-disk recording, which is one of
> >the things I'm looking for, so just for the heck of it, I created a 40MB PCM
> >file off of one of my CDs. But something was eerie about this. While
> >loading/saving the large file, and/or applying filters/transforms to it, my
> >machine doesn't stop responding like it did under Win95 with Creative Wave
> >and CoolEdit. The interface was still snappy, and I could still load and
> >work in other programs. Very nice indeed. I am so spoiled with Linux.
>
> I don't have any of those problems and even when I was running a 450mhz I didn't
> have them and I'm running many more tracks than you are.
>
Another one of your delusions flathead?
> You have to be kidding.....
>
Why would he shit you? Your his favorite turd.
GreyCloud
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:25:24 +0100, Marcello Barboni <nos...@nospam.it> wrote:
>
>
> And another prime example of how out of touch with reality the LinoNuts are.
At least we don't touch other people like your type.
GreyCloud
Why KDE was just trying to placate all that whining from the
lusers. Want some cheese with that whine?
GreyCloud
>
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:33:40 +0100, Marcello Barboni <nos...@nospam.it> wrote:
>
> >Well, come on! If average Joe is that dumb, he would find plenty of
> >difficulties even with windows:
>
> percent or more of the desktop market.
>
> Linux?
>
> ,24 percent of the desktop market, and I think it is even less.
>
Still see you are having these delusions eh flathead.
GreyCloud
>
> flatf...@mariana.trench wrote:
> > On 27 Feb 2002 21:25:23 GMT, Bo...@you.should.know (Bones) wrote:
>
> >>Just thought I'd counter a similarly-named, buy derailed thread with my own
> >>personal experience.
>
> > Give me a sec while I cover my keyboard.
> > ----------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> > Ok I'm back...You were saying?
>
> >>I recently decided to start using sound on my main PC again.
>
> > Classic.
>
> > Things like sound, digital cameras, scanners, wheel mice and other nice things
> > are such afterthoughts to the LinONuts....
>
> Interesting. Theyre usually among my first thoughts; my digital cam works
> fine with linux, as does my scanner and my SB Live Platinum card w/that
> useless front panel. I recently (and easily) piped a 70 minute stream via
> that nifty (and somewhat useless) optical jack to my minidisc recorder
> even.
>
> My wheel mouse works fine as well. So do "other things".
>
> You must be doing it wrong.
>
Flathead isn't bright enough to run linux, let alone install
it.
GreyCloud
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:43:12 +0100, Peter <pet...@NOSPAMskynet.be> wrote:
>
> >wait or get a coffee, now I can enjoy flatfish's posts while DAP works.
>
> At least you have taste :)
>
>
>
> # ?
>
> >> and work in other programs. Very nice indeed. I am so spoiled with Linux.
>
>
> You have no idea how much you are missing by running Linsux for DAW work.
Yes, he's missing out on all those BSODs and freeze ups in
windows.
freefall
>On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:33:40 +0100, Marcello Barboni <nos...@nospam.it> wrote:
>
>
>>Well, come on! If average Joe is that dumb, he would find plenty of
>>difficulties even with windows:
>
>He doesn't seem to be having too many problems considering Windows is about 90
>percent or more of the desktop market.
>
>Linux?
>
>
>,24 percent of the desktop market, and I think it is even less.
>
Actually it probably is less than 0.24 percent when you consider Linux
holds around 20 percent of the web server market. I'd imagine many of
the hits in the 0.24% occur when an administrator downloads a few
pages while they happen to be on the console of their web server.
Peter Köhlmann
Actually your intelligence is less than the perceived 43 points.
Some of those points are credited to you by error when you quote other
people.
Peter
--
A NT based server can be run by an idiot and usually is.
Bones
> philicorda wrote:
>> Marcello Barboni wrote:
[snip]
>> Man, your average Joe user sure is dumb.....
> I'm afraid so.
> A friend of mine bought a computer for music, and their first questions to
> me were "How to I plug my guitar into that little jack?", "Which hole is
> it?", and "Why can't I hear my guitar?".
I was talking about non-musician use of digital audio. BTW, I wouldn't trust
most amateur rock musicians in a studio full of professional recording
equipment, let alone with a home computer.
> It's easy to forget that many poeple have never even owned a computer, let
> alone compiled the applications to record their music.
I wasn't trying to prove that people could compile their own software, just
that there were a modicum (my word of the month) of choices for Linux. The
more awareness I bring to these programs, the more people will seek them
out, and eventually they'll be included as add-ons for popular Linux
distributions. The compilation aspect will then be irrelevant.
[snip]
Bones
>> "Doug.M" wrote:
>> What's you point ? I could easliy say that it is funny how M$ copied everything
>> form Apple. [snip]
> Is that the latest version of the lino shuffle..?
No, it's a successfuly attempt by Doug at destroying your original argument.
Bones
>> Marcello Barboni wrote:
>> Well, come on! If average Joe is that dumb, he would find plenty of
>> difficulties even with windows:
[snip]
>> -Why do I have to press the "start" button to shut down my machine?
> That's so old. That the name the gave it to "start" navagation. Why in
> kde is the logout selection under the K button.
It's also a button on the bar, and a selection when one "right-clicks" on
the desktop. The button also sports the unmistakable universal symbol for
'power', and the bubble description of 'Logout'.
> What is a K button anyway?
Well, when you position the pointer of top of it, a text bubble pops up that
says, 'Start Applications'. Is that enough of a clue for you?
> Is that suppose to stand for anything meaningful, or does it stand for
> Kewl, like the window manager itself? Funny, though, how they copied
> everything from MS right down to the taskbar and placement of the "K"
> button.
You really can't say who they copied, since Windows resembles everything
about MacOS right down to the menubar and the placement of the 'Apple' menu
button, and since KDE has more than a single theme to the interface.
Sorry that you had to fall flat on your face with our counter-arguments.
Bones
I'm compelled to honor this one with a response.
>> flatf...@mariana.trench wrote:
>> Bones said: I recently decided to start using sound on my main PC again.
>> Classic. Things like sound, digital cameras, scanners, wheel mice and
>> other nice things are such afterthoughts to the LinONuts....
Nice assumption on your part, dipshit. You must have not come into work with
me those days where I set up my home machine at work using the OS
installation for a failed server in order test the configuration and to
recover data. You must have not been over the night I installed a new SCSI
hard disk in my home machine. I started from scratch with a Slackware 8
install, and since I really don't have a lot of time on my hands, I only
installed what I had an immediate need for. Sound support, scanner support
and camera support weren't immediate needs. Immediate needs were video
support (X), image editing and format translation (GIMP + imagik), printing
(Apsfilter), software coding and compiling (JEd + gcc + utilities), word
processing with document translation (Abiword), and a secure shell (open
ssh).
[snip]
>> My wheel mouse works fine as well. So do "other things".
You are having an episode, I didn't say anything about a wheel mouse. I
don't even own a wheel mouse. All the hardware I *do* have works fine.
> Flathead isn't bright enough to run linux, let alone install it.
I'm surprised that anyone bright enough to install Windows from scratch
can't form a coherent argument in this thread:
"Duuhhhh, you stuptid lino peoples, no use sound, wheelmouse
lin-o-nut linsux easter-egg huntkillfile scanners quarter
pounder with cheese windows two-thousandisland. no install
no install no install linux. bad bad. Uh huh, huh... huh,
huh, huh... I name is Gary."
Yet he posses the amazing ability to know about my *specific* situation, and
post flamebait on it. Or at least post information that is entirely made up,
and act as if it were truth. The Amazing Contrive-o!
Joseph Dalton
> Just thought I'd counter a similarly-named, buy derailed thread with my own
> personal experience.
<snip...>
>
> The sound card was configured without incident, and the module loaded. I
> went into KDE and tested the sound: Great! The next day I set out to find a
> decent sample editor at DaveCentral ( http://linux.davecentral.com ). Well,
> after scanning through 15 pages (out of 35) of sound utilities, I downloaded
> Audacity, DAP, Ecasound/Ecawave, Glame and also some other unrelated items
> such as Freeamp and various mixers.
>
My wife was trying to write down some guitar notes from a song. She
needed to slow down the play speed to get a couple of sections. I
downloaded DAP and, other than a couple of minor annoyances in the user
interface, it works just fine.
Snd looks like a cool tool though. Imagine a sound editor with the key
bindings of emacs. It's extensible through guile (or Ruby) including
the interface. And it can use LADSPA plugins (sort of like the VST
plugins in Windows/Mac world).
Here's a couple of articles about it:
http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/10/05/snd_partone.html
and
http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/10/18/snd_parttwo.html
Beyond what is available though, I think the windows advocates miss
one crucial point. That is the freedom offered by Linux in doing
things the way you want and not just what the tools provides.
In some of my research on this topic I found this article mailed to
the Linux audio developers mail list:
http://eca.cx/lad/2001/Dec/0253.html
A few snippets to illustrate:
<quote(s)>
It seems to me like you have some serious misconceptions about the
modern art music. Let me elaborate:
In my studio where I teach electronic music, we have 2 studios: one for
"intro to electronic music," loaded with midi stuff and rack-mountable
midi modules (something you'd call your type of pro-studio), and the one
we call "advanced" where the only midi we use (if we use it at all) is
for some kind of real-time controller hooked-up to control real-time
changes in the sound processing or something similar.
...
While most of us (in my community) do know how to do midi, and do it
well, we resort to a more abstract art that is not limited by the
click-track's resolution, neither by the commercial soundbanks (which
could potentially make all of our music sound similar, as is the case
with the commercial industry), nor limitations of the synths as to how
many oscillators we can mix at the same time without "choking" the
equipment. <snip...> With all this being said, and since I have a huge
problem using other people's patches, loops, and effects and calling
it my own creation, I would call your idea of studio a "production
studio," while mine an "art-studio" [with the prefix "pro" included
when appropriate].
...
I've already said it, and I'll say it again, there ARE quite a few
people using linux at this stage, but not for the purposes of building
midi-sequenced dance tunes, but rather abstract sonic landscapes which
have little or no need for the midi. Ardour and Muse are not the only
gems [or should I say gems-to-be?] of the linux audio community. Other
apps might be less user-friendly, but then again, that is what makes
user's piece so unique sounding, something that is not as stupidly
easily created as is the case with acid loops (whose loops, btw are
sadly now showing up all over the tv commercials and movies, thus
diminishing little of the art that is left in such business).
</quote>
Why Linux? It's about Freedom.
--
Joe Dalton
philicorda
Oddly enough, many of the basic Linux audio applications I've
used are more 'pro' than those on other OS's. As they are often written by
people who are musicians, rather than just pure commercial programmers,
they tend to concentrate on getting a job done, and not distracting you
with pretty but useless features.
As recording is job, I have a different view on what useful, but I can't
imagine any desktop user needing much more than is included for free, and
already compiled and installed with any modern distro.
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
--
';:'
Sam Shady
>Interesting. Theyre usually among my first thoughts; my digital cam works
>fine with linux, as does my scanner and my SB Live Platinum card w/that
>useless front panel. I recently (and easily) piped a 70 minute stream via
If you don't like the panel, you could send it to me...I think they
look very cool, and I could even find a few uses for it.
Sam
p.s. Life is a much nicer place with Fattiefishie and wj-guy
killfiled...
Posted with Agent 1.9
Running under Linux (w/wine)
Boston, MA
Jerry Nash
What a really great post! Thanks!
Jerry Nash
>On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:57:42 -0800, GreyCloud <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Flathead isn't bright enough to run linux, let alone install
>>it.
>
>
Sure. I'll take you up on the wager.
Jerry Nash
What a great post! Thanks!
Darren
There is no 'lino shuffle' .. the dancestep you're referring to is the
*WINTROLL* Shuffle .. and I ought to know .. IIRC I used it first .. thank
you very much .. But to give credit where credit is due .. the earliest
reference to this dance (that I could find) was by GreyCloud on 29Aug2001
when he was talking about a related dancestep called the "Flatfish
Shuffle" and Ed Allen proceeded to instruct everyone on this intricate
dancestep on 31Aug2001 .. But it looks to me that they're all derived from
that famed 'Curly Shuffle' of the 3 stooges fame .. which is quite apropos
for our 3 stooges, OuijiBell, Flathead, and Erik Funkybean.
GreyCloud
You still can't provide the proof so knotheads like you
spread FUD instead.
GreyCloud
>
Warning: The Sturgeon General has determined that using
Windows causes permanent brain damage.
GreyCloud
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:57:42 -0800, GreyCloud <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote:
>
> >it.
>
>
You haven't demonstrated it yet dickweed.
All your fudding and pissing and moaning about linux.
Go see a doctor because you are close to being brain dead.
.
> On 28 Feb 2002 02:09:51 GMT, yt...@mutilation.net (.) wrote:
>>Interesting. Theyre usually among my first thoughts; my digital cam works
>>fine with linux, as does my scanner and my SB Live Platinum card w/that
>>useless front panel. I recently (and easily) piped a 70 minute stream via
> If you don't like the panel, you could send it to me...I think they
> look very cool, and I could even find a few uses for it.
Actually the only reason I use it is for the optical out...which I do
need...:)
Darren
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:25:48 GMT, no...@nowhere.com (freefall) wrote:
>
>
>>>,24 percent of the desktop market, and I think it is even less.
>>>
>>>
>>Actually it probably is less than 0.24 percent when you consider Linux
>>holds around 20 percent of the web server market. I'd imagine many of
>>the hits in the 0.24% occur when an administrator downloads a few pages
>>while they happen to be on the console of their web server.
>
>
> I would think that would boost Linux usage sky high for several reasons:
>
> 1. With Linux you have to spend hours scouring the internet to find
> information on how to run it.
>
FUDge .. no thank you .. it's not good for my diet.
> 2. We all know how much LinOnuts love to have Linux browsers show that
> they are running Linux so displaying IE as the browser type isn't likely
> to happen.
Some do, some don't .. depends on how badly they need to get through
poorly designed websites ..
Chris
> > difficulties even with windows:
> > consistency.
> > -Why should "make a boot floppy" be buried in the install/revove
> > applications applet?
> > -Why do I have to press the "start" button to shut down my machine?
>
> That's so old. That the name the gave it to "start" navagation. Why in
> kde is the logout selection under the K button.
Makes more sense than having it under "Start."
What is a K button
> anyway? Is that suppose to stand for anything meaningful, or does it
> stand for Kewl, like the window manager itself? Funny, though, how they
> copied everything
Like the virtual desktops.
from MS right down to the taskbar and placement of the
> "K" button.
And MS didn't copy from Macintosh?
wjbell
He never does, he just makes childish comments to everything. It's
another linonut tactic, flood them with useless messages until they get
tired of answering them.
Peter Köhlmann
>> > Well, come on! If average Joe is that dumb, he would find plenty of
>> > difficulties even with windows:
>> > -When should I singleclick and when shoud I doubleclick? There's no
>> > consistency.
>> > -Why should "make a boot floppy" be buried in the install/revove
>> > applications applet?
>> > -Why do I have to press the "start" button to shut down my machine?
>>
>> That's so old. That the name the gave it to "start" navagation. Why
>> in kde is the logout selection under the K button.
>
> Makes more sense than having it under "Start."
>
I never use it from there. One right click on the GUI just gives me that
same possibility to log out
> What is a K button
>> anyway? Is that suppose to stand for anything meaningful, or does it
>> stand for Kewl, like the window manager itself? Funny, though, how
>> they copied everything
>
> Like the virtual desktops.
>
Yep. MS has build many of them into windows. Only the code to use them
was somehow forgotten...
> from MS right down to the taskbar and placement of the
>> "K" button.
>
Well, it sure makes more sense to place such a bar at one of the screen
edges (it is configurable, after all) than to put it smack unto the
middle of the screen, isn't it?
And putting the K-button into a corner makes sense also
There simply is no "copying" involved, since you can do similar things
just so many ways.
Peter
--
A fool-proof method for sculpting an elephant:
first, get a huge block of marble; then you chip
away everything that doesn't look like an elephant.
Jerry Nash
>
>Give me a break......
>
>snip...some convoluted dissertation..
>
Looks like Flatfish doesn't like the opinions of those
who are more musically talented than the flatty.
Darren
That seems to be the #1 Warren WinTroll tactic ..
Sam Shady
>Sam Shady <bl...@blah.com> wrote:
>> If you don't like the panel, you could send it to me...I think they
>> look very cool, and I could even find a few uses for it.
>
>Actually the only reason I use it is for the optical out...which I do
>need...:)
Son of a....
That's all I needed it for too!
I wonder what Linux support for that port is like...
(Mind you Wintrolls, I have killfiled the whole lot of you, so I won't
be seeing smart-a$$ responses to this query...)
Sam
Linonut
> You really can't say who they copied, since Windows resembles everything
> about MacOS right down to the menubar and the placement of the 'Apple' menu
> button, and since KDE has more than a single theme to the interface.
>
> Sorry that you had to fall flat on your face with our counter-arguments.
Check out this Spencer F. Katt cartoon concerning Bill's longtime
obsession with making Windows "like the Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaac".
http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s=25060&a=22665,00.asp
Guffaw!
--
Linux is Open Sourcery
Darren
> On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:01:34 GMT, Sam Shady <bl...@blah.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Son of a....
>>That's all I needed it for too!
>>I wonder what Linux support for that port is like...
>
> There is none..........................
>
> No surprise there.....
>
>
>>(Mind you Wintrolls, I have killfiled the whole lot of you, so I won't
>>be seeing smart-a$$ responses to this query...)
>
>
> The truth hurts....
>
>>Sam
>>Posted with Agent 1.9
>>Running under Linux (w/wine)
>>Boston, MA
>
How do you know? You got lost about what they were talking about 2 posts
ago.
Terry Porter
in smoke upside down, and at 500 feet with an old crop duster:
Well look whose changed his ID again. Whats the matter flathead
not getting any bites thesedays ?
Flatheads ID was:-
From: flatf...@mariana.trench
^^^^^^^
Sender: flatfish+++
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
X-No-Archive: yes
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.188.206.55
Organization: Optimum Online
....................................................
His new id is:-
From: flattf...@maiana.trench
^^^^^^ alteration here
Sender: flatfish+++
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560
X-No-Archive: yes
MIME-Version: 1.0
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.188.206.55
Organization: Optimum Online
....................................................
Either way the same old warnings appply for this poster:-
***
Some background on the Wintroll, thief and liar
flatf...@mariana.trench whose real name is Gary
otherwise known as:-
Steve/Mike/Simon/teknite/keymaster/keys88/"S"/Sponge/Syphon/Sarek/
"Sewer Rat"/steveno/scummer/McSwain/Swango/pickle_pete/piddy/
"leg log"/wazzoo/Whore(Slut)/mike_hunt/Heather/Amy/claire_lynn/
susie_wong/Ishmeal_hafizi/"Saul Goldblatt"/Proculous/Tiberious/
whparker/Jerry_Butler/"Tim Palmer"/BklynBoy/bison/Wobbles/
screwbilk/deadpenguin/"%^$&&&&&&&&&&&&@!!!!!!!!!!!!!.com"/
The Cat (hepcat)/nob...@nowhere.org (.)/bill.gates.loves.me/
flatfish/linux_sux/WinRulez/Roy/t...@spamnono.noo/Whizzer/juke_joint/
whp...@screwlinux.com/Fawn Lebowitz/racer_y/biv...@army.flop/
a...@amy.com/any...@no.net/spanny_davis/Spammy_Davis/Okto_Pussy/
Richard Heflin <hefli...@excite.com,Christine Abernathy
<snoot...@excite.com>, flatf...@mariana.trench"
Yttrx: And you too, flatfish. Why are you even attempting to use linux?
Gary: To prove that you zealots are out of your minds.
Yttrx: Did you do any actual *thinking*?
Gary: Why? The authors said it works. It doesn't.
Just like Linux in general.
Gary: So I say Mandrake stinks (and it does) and I get yelled at.
So then I say Mandrake is great (it isn't) and I get yelled at.
Vface: Shame on me not to have forseen this was just a Linux
demolition enterprise. My god, Terry Porter was right!
***
--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX. Debian 2.2 kernel 2.2.20
Free Micro burner: http://w3w.arafuraconnect.com.au/~tp/burn.html
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
GreyCloud
>
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 04:24:17 GMT, wjbell <wj...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >Is that the latest version of the lino shuffle..?
>
>
> They start with "Why does the Start button shut down Windows/" and when asked
> WTF does the K button do they start the LinOShuffle twistANDshout.
>
> Start means START HERE.
>
> K?????
>
> It's a letter..
Yep, and what about shutdown??
GreyCloud
>
That's easy... you've never demonstrated its use in here
yet. Get it??
GreyCloud
But you're not childish?? Guffaw!! Priceless coming from a
wintroll!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
GreyCloud
>
> On 28 Feb 2002 10:50:46 -0500, Joseph Dalton <jmda...@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> >needed to slow down the play speed to get a couple of sections. I
> >downloaded DAP and, other than a couple of minor annoyances in the user
> >interface, it works just fine.
>
>
> I can do all of that with the shit programs that come with the typical shit
> sound card, like Voytra for example. And I don't need to search the net for
> xforms and xpm libraries and then spend half a day figuring out how to make them
> work as well.
>
> >Snd looks like a cool tool though. Imagine a sound editor with the key
> >bindings of emacs.
>
>
> A nightmare at best.
>
> > It's extensible through guile (or Ruby) including
> >the interface. And it can use LADSPA plugins (sort of like the VST
> >plugins in Windows/Mac world).
>
>
> >Here's a couple of articles about it:
> >http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/10/05/snd_partone.html
>
>
> See the screen shot of Cooledit on the first page?
>
> setup.exe and it is installed.
>
> Now go take a look at snd.
>
> Better yet take a look at all the CRAP you have to go through just to install
> and make it work......
>
> What a freaking nightmare!!!
>
> >Beyond what is available though, I think the windows advocates miss
> >one crucial point. That is the freedom offered by Linux in doing
> >things the way you want and not just what the tools provides.
>
>
> What freedom?
>
> To chose between 1/2 a dozen shit applications and waste my time trying to make
> them work, if they even work at all?
>
> Give me a break......
>
> snip...some convoluted dissertation..
>
Popping acid again flathead??
.
>>Sam Shady <bl...@blah.com> wrote:
>>> If you don't like the panel, you could send it to me...I think they
>>> look very cool, and I could even find a few uses for it.
>>
>>Actually the only reason I use it is for the optical out...which I do
>>need...:)
> Son of a....
> That's all I needed it for too!
> I wonder what Linux support for that port is like...
> (Mind you Wintrolls, I have killfiled the whole lot of you, so I won't
> be seeing smart-a$$ responses to this query...)
Its just fine. Download the emu tools for emu10k1 from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/emu10k1. You can choose the source
and destination of each stream your soundblaster is dealing with, live
or preset.
Its quite nice.
.
> On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:01:34 GMT, Sam Shady <bl...@blah.com> wrote:
>>Son of a....
>>That's all I needed it for too!
>>I wonder what Linux support for that port is like...
> There is none..........................
> No surprise there.....
Wrong. Emu tools (which has been around for some time) lights up every
single port on the front panel actually.
Youre wrong AGAIN, gary.
.
Hes wrong anyhow. Emu tools is your friend.
Learning how to set source and destination routes for streaming through the soundblaster
is a little difficult if youve never dealt with sound engineering before, but should
be a no brainer for someone like flatfish, eh?
Sam Shady
>There is none..........................
>
>No surprise there.....
What the hell...How's you get through my flatfish net?
I killfiled the two schmucks....Hmmmm...
Sam Shady
plonked.
T. Max Devlin
>On 27 Feb 2002 21:25:23 GMT, Bo...@you.should.know (Bones) wrote:
>
>>Just thought I'd counter a similarly-named, buy derailed thread with my own
>>personal experience.
>
>Give me a sec while I cover my keyboard.
>----------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Ok I'm back...You were saying?
>
>>I recently decided to start using sound on my main PC again.
>
>Classic.
>
>Things like sound, digital cameras, scanners, wheel mice and other nice things
>are such afterthoughts to the LinONuts....
Indeed. They are generally used to using computers for more serious work.
[...]
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
The Ghost In The Machine
<flatf...@mariana.trench>
wrote
on Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:52:49 GMT
<a2lq7ukpc43c9861n...@4ax.com>:
[snip]
>
> What's a file?
An abstract concept. In a mathematical sense, a file is a mapping
of a pathname into (in Linux, it's not 1-to-1 because of symlinks
and hardlinks) a data object; the data object in this case being
an otherwise uninterpreted array of bits, with some functionality
intentionally omitted for generality, as other objects -- such as
a serial console -- do not support direct indexing.
It gets worse if one includes "directories", which maps a pathname
into a *collection* of filenames or directories.
In Microsoft-land, (AFAICT) one does not have files and directories;
one has folders and documents. (A very old proposal, if I remember
things correctly, added cabinets and drawers as well -- the cabinet
might have been the drive, the drawer a partition within it.
This merely indicates how strange analogies can get when stretched
too far.)
> How do I edit it?
How did you want to? Granted, there are some difficulties here.
A program, after all, is a special type of file -- and one has
to find *it*, as well. (Of course, most shells don't seem to
have much of a problem finding programs. :-) )
There are also issues with data representation. Text, for instance,
has multiple formats, some of which are:
- standard ASCII or ISO-8859-1, with some sort of terminator
to indicate a new record. (MSDOS and Windows use CRLF,
although Write/Wordpad can handle newlines; Unix and Linux
use newlines; older versions of MacOS used carriage returns
IIRC. OpenVMS has multiple representations, although I suspect
most will use StreamLF, if it's still called that.)
- HTML, which is standard ASCII or ISO-8859-1, but which has
interpreted tags and constructs, a form of pseudo-instruction
to the reader (for example, '<IMG SRC="...">' brings in
a picture).
- Postscript, which is actually text, but of a very specific
format which most people don't bother to read, but instead
just throw at a printer or printer daemon and have it
do the gruntwork. A simple example:
(hello world) show
but it could be as easily printed character-by-character,
depending on the generator.
- TeX or LaTeX, which is ASCII but represents instructions,
this time to a program, which reads the instructions and
generates other instructions. These are intended to be
human-readable to some extent, so that a human can edit
it without special editor tools (TeX and LaTeX are
batch-processors, not editors).
- nroff/troff instructions. (This mostly applies to those of
us writing manpages the old-fashioned way.)
- C, C++, shell scripts, Perl scripts, Tcl scripts, Python scripts,
Java, SGML, XML, etc. which are all highly-formatted textual
representations intended to be processed by computer, for the
most part.
Data gets even stranger, since there are many many formats,
and even meta-formats (Microsoft's OLE probably being the
best known, but HTML could also be construed as a bit of
a meta-format since it describes picture inclusion and
text formatting).
> Where do I find it?
You don't find files. You find the data that they represent,
or the path of a file whose name, or part of a name, is specified.
Both systems can search for content, for example; in Windows
it's done via menus, but in Linux one can specify a command
such as
find / -type f | xargs grep -i 'my summer vacation'
or by writing a script. One can think of a manual versus an
automatic transmission, in this case; the automatic is far easier
to use, and the manual gives the user more control, but the user
needs to take care lest he shift into first gear at highway speeds
and blow his engine.
I'll leave it to the user to decide which one is easier; I should
note that it will definitely depend on the user. The first-time
user will find Windows easier in many cases, until he wants to
do something beyond its capabilities.
> how did you know what to type?
The only intuitive interface is the human nipple -- and even that's
not all that universal. Ideally, upon first login, the user would
be presented with a short description suggesting he type in
the commands 'man', 'ls', and 'cd', among others. In a
graphical environment it's a little easier, mostly because
the major distros point the web browser by default to some
documentation stored on the local disk.
> What is command not found mean?
It means a failure to communicate between user and OS,
and the OS does not understand what the user is trying to say.
In this particular case, the OS is interpreting a series of
characters as a command, and then is having trouble locating
the program.
> Why doesn't the command work even though I can see it listed
> in the directory?
This one's rather technical, requiring knowledge of the workings
of the shell; in most cases it's because '.' is not in one's
PATH environment variable. One can consider that a bug or
a feature; it's a bug because it's less obvious what needs to
be done, but it's a feature because, were '.' in one's PATH
variable, an enterprising hacker could break into the system,
and leave a Trojan Horse disguised as a system command.
>
> Five hours of searching later....................
>
> Why didn't somebody tell me about ./pnpdump.
Another failure to communicate. In times of yore, operating
systems got very large manuals shipped with them; nowadays,
one is referred to the Web, and Microsoft's web site in
the case of Microsoft products. Linux is far less centralized,
which can lead to some problems, but the obvious place to start
looking is with the distribution one installed, if one has
installed a distribution, as opposed to going one's own way
with such things as linuxfromscratch.org. (In which case,
I think he'd already know what a file is, and how to talk
with the shell... :-) )
Perhaps our main problem here is that commands don't know
about each other -- a rather general, if low-level,
complaint that I've personally had with Unix for years.
It's not a major hindrance for the technical user, but
it could throw the poor novice for a loop.
>
>
>> Big deal. I then added some module options for sb.o to the
>>/etc/modules.conf file. Granted, I didn't have to do it this way,
>>but it's much more tidy. I uncommented the the sb.o module line
>>out in rc.modules, and rebooted the machine to load the new kernel.
>
> How did you know to do this?
Good question; not everyone will. Of course, he is far ahead
of the power curve in this particular problem -- I'm still
wondering how to get Win95 to talk to two NICs, for example.
> What does "modules.conf is later than etc"......mean?
> Does case matter?
> Is that a 0 or a o?
Neither; it's a convention. On Linux, files do not have to
end with a set extension (although /bin/ld has some quirks of
its own).
Most likely, however, it's a period (0x2E) followed by
a lower case o, the 15th letter in the ASCII alphabet
(0x6F).
>
>>The sound card was configured without incident, and the module
>>loaded. I went into KDE and tested the sound: Great! The next
>>day I set out to find a decent sample editor at DaveCentral
>>( http://linux.davecentral.com ). Well, after scanning through
>>15 pages (out of 35) of sound utilities, I downloaded Audacity,
>>DAP, Ecasound/Ecawave, Glame and also some other unrelated items
>>such as Freeamp and various mixers.
>
>
> Mostly toys and half done applications...
Considering the sophistication of the previous poster (whose
attributions I regrettably snipped while editing this post -- grrr!)
I don't think that is a major problem.
Judging from wjbell's postings, of course, there's a lot of nice
stuff out there for Windows -- nice-looking, anyway. But does
that really matter? It's what's under the hood that counts. :-)
>
>
>>I have all of that stuff compiled and install on the machine now,
>>(I also made nice packages -- soon to be Slackware packages -- out
>>of the stuff.) Some of the applications support direct-to-disk
>>recording, which is one of the things I'm looking for, so just for
>>the heck of it, I created a 40MB PCM file off of one of my CDs.
>>But something was eerie about this. While loading/saving the large
>>file, and/or applying filters/transforms to it, my machine doesn't
>>stop responding like it did under Win95 with Creative Wave
>>and CoolEdit. The interface was still snappy, and I could still load and
>>work in other programs. Very nice indeed. I am so spoiled with Linux.
>
> I don't have any of those problems and even when I was running
> a 450mhz I didn't have them and I'm running many more tracks
> than you are.
>
> You have to be kidding.....
I take it you're of the opinion that Linux can't handle
multiple things at once, and Win95/NT/2k/XP can?
From what I've seen:
- Win95 could do one thing at a time, and that's about it.
- WinNT was OK with doing a few things at a time, but was a
bit slow about it.
- Win2k was a little better than NT.
- I don't know about XP, but should be a little better than Win2k.
This is, of course, only my personal observation and is therefore
best treated as anecdotal. System performance depends on a
very *large* number of factors. (Fast tip: do NOT use Windows'
automatic paging file extension mechanism, but merely set your
min and max virtual memory to about twice one's RAM when first
setting up one's system. That way, your paging file -- a hidden
file not normally seen by the casual user -- will not get
fragmented, which should improve performance and possibly reduce
crashing as well. If you already have a fragmented paging file,
and have enough RAM, temporarily set your VM to *zero*, reboot,
defragment, reset your VM settings to what you want them to be,
and reboot again.)
--
ewi...@earthlink.net -- and remember, Windows is easier to use! :-)
EAC code #191 16d:07h:49m actually running Linux.
You're going to do *what* *where* *when*?
Michael Vester
I found that setting virtual memory to a fixed amount, twice the RAM, works
the best on a MS-Windows 95 system. And I give the VM its own partition.
It is one reason I get exceptional uptimes with MS-Windows 95, sometimes as
much as 8 hours.
--
11:30am up 22 days, 40 min, 1 user, load average: 1.00, 1.18, 1.11
Spammer diluetent (additions welcome)
ms...@microsoft.com ab...@hotmail.com mrre...@yahoo.com
hot...@prontomail.com webm...@korcin.com hot...@protolmail.com