AMD Cleaning Intel's Clocks
John Bailo
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?p=2221&tag=nl.e539
AMD scores huge 7-round TKO over Intel in dual-core benchmarks Posted by
David Berlind @ 6:17 am
The news keeps getting worse for Intel when it comes to arch nemesis AMD
...
But if that news isn't bad enough for Intel (and good for AMD), now
comes this: AMD's
7-round clean sweep technical knockout in ZDNet's comparative review
that benchmarked
the two companies' dual-core offerings against each other.
DFS
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?p=2221&tag=nl.e539
> AMD scores huge 7-round TKO over Intel in dual-core benchmarks Posted
> by David Berlind @ 6:17 am
>
> The news keeps getting worse for Intel when it comes to arch nemesis
> AMD
The results of Windows vs. Linux would be a similar rout: Windows in a
clean-sweep.
Day to Day Computing: Windows
Gaming: Windows
Multitasking: Windows
Photo Editing: Windows
MP3 encoding: Windows
Video encoding: Windows
Price vs. performance: Windows
Roy Schestowitz
You might also want to look at the following, which is a couple of weeks old:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20051121/index.html
( Title: The Mother of All CPU Charts 2005/2006 )
Roy
--
Roy S. Schestowitz | It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
4:05pm up 5 days 13:32, 5 users, load average: 0.66, 0.44, 0.50
CptDondo
>
> The results of Windows vs. Linux would be a similar rout: Windows in a
> clean-sweep.
Data please?
>
> Day to Day Computing: Windows
a wash. Either one works fine.
> Gaming: Windows
Perhaps; I don't game.
> Multitasking: Windows
Not a chance. Windows is still a single user OS, with enough 'legacy'
apps to warrant being single-tasking as well. A rogue app can take down
the computer.
> Photo Editing: Windows
No way. Why are all the big studios using linux?
> MP3 encoding: Windows
Get real. Sony anyone?
> Video encoding: Windows
I didn't know mplayer/mythtv/xine was native to windows....
> Price vs. performance: Windows
Huh!!!!????
Linønut
DFS's stock in trade is in pulling "facts" out of his ass.
He can't bring himself to admit that only inertia keeps Windows on top
in consumer installs.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning.
It smells like... Freedom.
mlw
> John Bailo wrote:
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?p=2221&tag=nl.e539
>> AMD scores huge 7-round TKO over Intel in dual-core benchmarks Posted
>> by David Berlind @ 6:17 am
>>
>> The news keeps getting worse for Intel when it comes to arch nemesis
>> AMD
>
> The results of Windows vs. Linux would be a similar rout: Windows in a
> clean-sweep.
It is always easy to say thing, it is far more problematic to prove them.
>
> Day to Day Computing: Windows
By what criteria? What study? Site? Supporting arguments?
> Gaming: Windows
I'll concede gaming, but I don't really care about gaming.
> Multitasking: Windows
Again, this is stated without facts or supporting argument. When a Windows
program can do this, I'll consider it worth testing:
int main()
{
pid_t pid = fork();
if(!pid)
return BackgroundProcess();
else
return MonitorProcess(pid);
}
> Photo Editing: Windows
As far as I know, "Windows" does not edit photos, there are applications
which can be acquired which do edit photos, but that is a different story.
Depending on your abilities, objective, and budget, Linux, Mac, or Windows
all have applications which can suit 99.9% of the user's who would be
inclined to edit photos. Personally, I'll give it to Linux over Mac and
Windows for raw control over imaging a photo to the printer.
> MP3 encoding: Windows
Yea right!! In your dreams. Again, applications perform these functions, not
Linux or Windows, and the applications on Linux are far more flexable and
efficient on Linux. I can choose which MP3 encoder I want, I can choose
which CD database I use (many Windows applications can't). I have ripped
all my CDs to MP3s through Linux, and never had a single problem.
> Video encoding: Windows
Again, applications perform these functions, and while Windows may have an
edge in this category, Linux is not unworkable.
> Price vs. performance: Windows
Given any measure of "price vs performance" it is mathematically impossible
for this statement to be true. Linux is free and Windows is not. That being
said, ignoring price, Windows does has video performance superior to Linux,
but this performance comes at the cost of stability.
Which, brings up a few very important metrics you don't mention:
Stability: Linux!!
Security: Linux!!
billwg
"DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
news:KiZkf.792$Eu3...@fe07.lga...
use!
Toolman Tim
v-dnS1mIMrH9Ane...@comcast.com...
> After takin' a swig o' grog, CptDondo belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> DFS wrote:
>>
>>> The results of Windows vs. Linux would be a similar rout: Windows
>>> in a clean-sweep.
>>
>> Data please?
>>
>>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>
>> a wash. Either one works fine.
>>
>>> Gaming: Windows
>>
>> Perhaps; I don't game.
>>
>>> Multitasking: Windows
>>
>> Not a chance. Windows is still a single user OS, with enough
>> 'legacy' apps to warrant being single-tasking as well. A rogue app
>> can take down the computer.
>>
>>> Photo Editing: Windows
>>
>> No way. Why are all the big studios using linux?
>>
>>> MP3 encoding: Windows
>>
>> Get real. Sony anyone?
>>
>>> Video encoding: Windows
>>
>> I didn't know mplayer/mythtv/xine was native to windows....
>>
>>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>>
>> Huh!!!!????
>
> DFS's stock in trade is in pulling "facts" out of his ass.
Did I hear 'sombody' ;) mention you wanted my ass, Linųnut?
> He can't bring himself to admit that only inertia keeps Windows on top
> in consumer installs.
--
Tiger
"There's nothing more permanent than a temporary tax"
GreyCloud
You should keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.
--
Where are we going?
And why am I in this handbasket?
Toolman Tim
5ydnfKYo_FP5Qne...@bresnan.com...
Trust you to come sniffing when ass is mentioned, huh?
You're a fucking cling-on, GayClod... nobody likes you, and nobody responds
to your inane linux posts!
You are a drain on boredom.
linux turns you into a useless GayClod.
Linønut
> Toolman Tim wrote:
>> Linųnut <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?="@bone.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Did I hear 'sombody' ;) mention you wanted my ass, Linųnut?
>
> You should keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.
This Toolman faker is a childish prat.
Linønut
> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>> Gaming: Windows
These two have some merit, for Joe Consumer, since it's the dominant
consumer platform.
>> Multitasking: Windows
>> Photo Editing: Windows
>> MP3 encoding: Windows
>> Video encoding: Windows
I would vote Linux for the four above.
>> Price vs. performance: Windows
That last one is especially humorous.
> Well, OK, but you are overlooking the very important personal finance
> use!
GNU has that covered.
Peter Köhlmann
> After takin' a swig o' grog, GreyCloud belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Toolman Tim wrote:
>>>
>>> Did I hear 'sombody' ;) mention you wanted my ass, Linønut?
>>
>> You should keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.
>
> This Toolman faker is a childish prat.
What about this?
"Try visiting alt.os.windows-xp and posting a Windows question."
<snort>
--
Windows were a must in the F-16 or we would have crashed into the NIX
stadium."
--Tom Cruise
Erik Funkenbusch
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?p=2221&tag=nl.e539
> AMD scores huge 7-round TKO over Intel in dual-core benchmarks Posted by
> David Berlind @ 6:17 am
>
> The news keeps getting worse for Intel when it comes to arch nemesis AMD
This is not really surprising. They only tested the older Smithfield
(Pentium 8xx) cores. Intel released those as a stopgap. They're little
more than two dies on a single chip with little optimization.
Pressler (Pentium 9xx) will be released very soon, and while that still
probably won't beat the Athlon it will probably match it or close to it.
Pressler is 65nm and more optimized for dual core operation.
The REAL killer will be second half next year when Conroe is released, this
will be a shared L2 cache 45nm chip that will likely blow the doors off the
Athlon, *AND* use very little power in the process.
Intel is also prepping Quad and 8-core CPU's as well. Intel has basically
resined themselves to having second best performance for the time being
while they work on leapfrogging AMD.
I actually like the Athlon, and have on in my home system. I like that I
can upgrade to an X2 without a new motherboard, and will probably do that
soon and stay with AMD for a while. However, they're slow to support DDR2
(and 3), and Intel is really pushing some cool stuff. I may switch back to
Intel in 2 years or so.
Beowulf Trollshammer
> DooFuS wrote:
____ _ _ __ _ _ _
| _ \ ___ _ __ ( ) |_ / _| ___ ___ __| | | |_| |__ ___
| | | |/ _ \| '_ \|/| __| | |_ / _ \/ _ \/ _` | | __| '_ \ / _ \
| |_| | (_) | | | | | |_ | _| __/ __/ (_| | | |_| | | | __/
|____/ \___/|_| |_| \__| |_| \___|\___|\__,_| \__|_| |_|\___|
_____ ____ ___ _ _ _
|_ _| _ \ / _ \| | | | _ __ | | ___ __ _ ___ ___
| | | |_) | | | | | | | | '_ \| |/ _ \/ _` / __|/ _ \
| | | _ <| |_| | |___| |___ | |_) | | __/ (_| \__ \ __/_
|_| |_| \_\\___/|_____|_____| | .__/|_|\___|\__,_|___/\___(_)
billwg
"Linųnut" <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?="@bone.com> wrote in message
news:nPqdnZQnfM4...@comcast.com...
>
> GNU has that covered.
>
Quicken works with GNU? What does that even mean, nut?
The Ghost In The Machine
<bi...@twcf.rr.com>
wrote
on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:02:32 GMT
<swZkf.17370$8d....@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>:
>
> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
> news:KiZkf.792$Eu3...@fe07.lga...
>> John Bailo wrote:
>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?p=2221&tag=nl.e539
>>> AMD scores huge 7-round TKO over Intel in dual-core benchmarks Posted
>>> by David Berlind @ 6:17 am
>>>
>>> The news keeps getting worse for Intel when it comes to arch nemesis
>>> AMD
>>
>> The results of Windows vs. Linux would be a similar rout: Windows in
>> a
>> clean-sweep.
>>
>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>> Gaming: Windows
>> Multitasking: Windows
>> Photo Editing: Windows
>> MP3 encoding: Windows
>> Video encoding: Windows
>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>>
> Well, OK, but you are overlooking the very important personal finance
> use!
>
No, he's not.
Not that any of this is worth crap without at least some
substantiating data, but he's got it covered. Apparently,
he's saying zero cost, zero performance for Linux.
(This despite ample evidence otherwise, of course. But then,
for him, it might very well be such; if he can't get Linux
to boot that's darned close to zero performance for *him*.
But whose fault is that, really? :-) )
In any event, Windows is "free", "easy to use", "secure", and
ubiquitous.
- "Free": it's bundled with almost every PC sold. One has to
be careful if one *doesn't* want it, but most vendors
don't do a cost breakout. (Dell does break out the
cost of Win2003 Server, but that's a different product
on a different, server-based, hardware platform.
Most people don't buy 1U rackmountables for home use. :-) )
- "Easy to use": just point and click. Now scripting to repeat
that point and click is something else again,
though there are macro recorders. Just don't
move that window.
- "Secure": XP now has a firewall. It helps. And Windows is
"focusing on security", of course, which explains
in part the 7 or so unpatched IE security issues.
(And how long have they been unpatched?)
- Ubiquitous: Over 80%, or maybe 90%, of the PC/desktop OS market.
That's close enough for me. Maybe too close to
a monopoly for me as well.
Yeah, Windows, the clear winner in marketingware.
Pity.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
The Ghost In The Machine
<er...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
wrote
on Mon, 5 Dec 2005 12:14:54 -0600
<1f75926btbxpw$.d...@funkenbusch.com>:
Wow! Vaporhardware! Who'dathunk?
Sinister Midget
> DFS wrote:
>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>
> Huh!!!!????
Winders has the higher price and the lower performance.
Linux has the higher performance and the lower price.
It's an either/or situation. You can have higher price or higher
performance, but not both (in this comparison).
Score one for DooFu$.
--
Windows: So easy to admin, even a worm can do it.
Linønut
> "Linųnut" <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?="@bone.com> wrote in message
As if Quicken is the only consumer-level financial app out there.
Erik Funkenbusch
Actually, roadmaps are how hardware vendors plan for the future. This is
what caused apple to choose Intel chips rather than AMD ones for their new
platforms. Intel has some major performance/watt stuff coming out with a
roadmap stretching out to 2011.
What has AMD shown? Very little about the future. Maybe they have a lot
in the works, but if they don't tell anyone about it, they're not going to
get vendors to sign on in the face of Intel's roadmap.
Intel has also been very good about meeting their schedules and delivering
what they promise, with a few exceptions of course (4Ghz P4 anyone?
Itanium?).
By the time it makes it to an Intel roadmap, Intel has been getting silicon
engineering samples for months.
tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com
>
> - "Free": it's bundled with almost every PC sold. One has to
> be careful if one *doesn't* want it, but most vendors
> don't do a cost breakout. (Dell does break out the
> cost of Win2003 Server, but that's a different product
> on a different, server-based, hardware platform.
> Most people don't buy 1U rackmountables for home use. :-) )
What? And it seems like such a natural choice for my entertainment
center... particularly with all that rack-mount audio gear.
Next you will be telling me I'm some kind of geek for having a T1
line running to my house back in the early 90's. :-/
Later,
Thad
Peter Jensen
Hash: SHA1
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> Intel is also prepping Quad and 8-core CPU's as well. Intel has
> basically resined themselves to having second best performance for the
> time being while they work on leapfrogging AMD.
Right, and of course AMD will just sit idly by while this happens,
right?
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=bMgy
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--
PeKaJe
The chains of marriage are so heavy that it takes two to carry them, and
sometimes three. -- Alexandre Dumas
Erik Funkenbusch
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
>> Intel is also prepping Quad and 8-core CPU's as well. Intel has
>> basically resined themselves to having second best performance for the
>> time being while they work on leapfrogging AMD.
>
> Right, and of course AMD will just sit idly by while this happens,
> right?
I don't know, they haven't said anything.
amosf (Tim Fairchild)
> On 2005-12-05, CptDondo <y...@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com> posted something
> concerning:
>> DFS wrote:
>
>>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>>
>> Huh!!!!????
>
> Winders has the higher price and the lower performance.
>
> Linux has the higher performance and the lower price.
>
> It's an either/or situation. You can have higher price or higher
> performance, but not both (in this comparison).
>
> Score one for DooFu$.
Doof is around again? Cool. Leafnode is working well.
Thanks guys!
--
-
I use linux. Can anyone give me a good reason to use Windows?
-
Peter Köhlmann
Well, you seemed so mightily sure that Intel will "leapfrog AMD"
--
Windows was created to keep stupid people away from UNIX."
-- Tom Christiansen
Colonel Addison Goodgold-Horringleg
> It helps with masturbation too.
Peter Jensen
Hash: SHA1
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>> Intel is also prepping Quad and 8-core CPU's as well. Intel has
>>> basically resined themselves to having second best performance for
>>> the time being while they work on leapfrogging AMD.
>>
>> Right, and of course AMD will just sit idly by while this happens,
>> right?
>
> I don't know, they haven't said anything.
Yeah, and huge international corporations never decide to keep their
future plans secret, right? It would be pretty naive to assume that
they will simply sit still for the next couple of years, and let Intel
catch up to them.
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G+kMglmF7k8RoukcIgrFUSo=
=NM0v
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
PeKaJe
Microsoft Windows is a very effective file server for a limited range of
files. Virus files, that is ...
Sinister Midget
> Sinister Midget wrote something like:
>
>> On 2005-12-05, CptDondo <y...@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com> posted something
>> concerning:
>>> DFS wrote:
>>
>>>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>>>
>>> Huh!!!!????
>>
>> Winders has the higher price and the lower performance.
>>
>> Linux has the higher performance and the lower price.
>>
>> It's an either/or situation. You can have higher price or higher
>> performance, but not both (in this comparison).
>>
>> Score one for DooFu$.
>
> Doof is around again? Cool. Leafnode is working well.
I don't see DooFu$ either. I just see the inevitable responses to her
mindless pap.
I *can* go back a read her posts, though. I use leafnode as well. But I
prefer to download everything and kill at the reader.* Using slrn is
good for that. Pan is good dor some headers, too, but not all of the
same ones slrn handles.
> Thanks guys!
* That's saved me from getting in trouble a couple of times when
someone used my moniker to send posts. The headers of the post I never
saw proved it wasn't me. But I pulled it from the cache and emailed it
to the ISP to show they need to pay closer attention.
--
I'm not one of those who think Bill Gates is the devil. I simply suspect
that if Microsoft ever met up with the devil, it wouldn't need an
interpreter.
The Ghost In The Machine
<tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com>
wrote
on Mon, 5 Dec 2005 21:51:55 +0000 (UTC)
<dn2cpr$l7s$1...@tux.glaci.com>:
ObResponse: OK, you're a geek. :-) (So am I, for that matter,
though I don't have a rack, just a lot of older model PC junque.)
Mind you, you're right; rackmountable equipment is
wonderful for serious audiophiles, as opposed to worrying
about having it all fall over in the next earthquake or
something, or trying to figure out how the hell to get
back in there and then falling over the monitor reaching
for that one ridiculously unreachable plug in back.
(Those keyboard wristpads do make for handy knee rests,
in a pinch.)
As for the T1 line -- I'm getting about 150 kB, which is
just about a T1 line (1.544 megabits) if I'm not mistaken,
on my DSL (downloads, admittedly -- uploads are a piddly
128 kb, if I'm not mistaken), and now they're advertising
700 kB. Pretty cool -- if one can afford it.
And with Linux, one just might be able to. :-)
>
> Later,
>
> Thad
William Poaster
In The Machine console, was as follows:
Yeah, riiiiight, & AMD are going to wait for Intel to catch up? <G>
--
Q: What's a linux user?
A: Someone who has seen through the lies of Microsoft......
-- Gordon Burgess-Parker - 24hoursupport.helpdesk --
William Poaster
(Tim Fairchild) console, was as follows:
> Sinister Midget wrote something like:
>
>> On 2005-12-05, CptDondo <y...@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com> posted something
>> concerning:
>>> DFS wrote:
>>
>>>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>>>
>>> Huh!!!!????
>>
>> Winders has the higher price and the lower performance.
>>
>> Linux has the higher performance and the lower price.
>>
>> It's an either/or situation. You can have higher price or higher
>> performance, but not both (in this comparison).
>>
>> Score one for DooFu$.
>
> Doof is around again? Cool. Leafnode is working well.
>
> Thanks guys!
YW! :-)
amosf (Tim Fairchild)
> On 2005-12-05, amosf (Tim Fairchild) <use...@bcs4me.com> posted something
> concerning:
>> Sinister Midget wrote something like:
>>
>>> On 2005-12-05, CptDondo <y...@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com> posted something
>>> concerning:
>>>> DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>>>>
>>>> Huh!!!!????
>>>
>>> Winders has the higher price and the lower performance.
>>>
>>> Linux has the higher performance and the lower price.
>>>
>>> It's an either/or situation. You can have higher price or higher
>>> performance, but not both (in this comparison).
>>>
>>> Score one for DooFu$.
>>
>> Doof is around again? Cool. Leafnode is working well.
>
> I don't see DooFu$ either. I just see the inevitable responses to her
> mindless pap.
>
> I *can* go back a read her posts, though. I use leafnode as well. But I
> prefer to download everything and kill at the reader.* Using slrn is
> good for that. Pan is good dor some headers, too, but not all of the
> same ones slrn handles.
I was doing that, but knode doesn't do many headers, so gradually moving
people like tab et al across to leafnode since they are always a waste of
space... Still filtering google with knode as I read some of them -
coloured poo-brown if I do.
>> Thanks guys!
>
> * That's saved me from getting in trouble a couple of times when
> someone used my moniker to send posts. The headers of the post I never
> saw proved it wasn't me. But I pulled it from the cache and emailed it
> to the ISP to show they need to pay closer attention.
>
--
tab
He is a FLAPPER, as in flapping his lips but never helping.
His most favorite saying: Idiot.
His most favorite past-time: giving blow jobs from those huge flapping
lips!
tab
Peter Köhlmann
< snip tab droppings >
tab <trental...@yahoo.com> wrote in
Message-ID: <1133228573....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
---------------------------
Plonk me, insult me, trash me, but at your expense.
You will have to know what I say to newbies.
You started this war, I am here now!
You never should have trashed me as a newbie.
I am a product of you. Congrats. MORONS.
Linux advocates at their finest.
---------------------------
This about sums it. Forget anything that idiot writes. It is garbage
--
Don't abandon hope: your Tom Mix decoder ring arrives tomorrow
amosf (Tim Fairchild)
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:30:04 +0000, a broadcast message from the amosf
> (Tim Fairchild) console, was as follows:
>
>> Sinister Midget wrote something like:
>>
>>> On 2005-12-05, CptDondo <y...@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com> posted something
>>> concerning:
>>>> DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>>>>
>>>> Huh!!!!????
>>>
>>> Winders has the higher price and the lower performance.
>>>
>>> Linux has the higher performance and the lower price.
>>>
>>> It's an either/or situation. You can have higher price or higher
>>> performance, but not both (in this comparison).
>>>
>>> Score one for DooFu$.
>>
>> Doof is around again? Cool. Leafnode is working well.
>>
>> Thanks guys!
>
> YW! :-)
What I like about it on dialup is that it makes news reading better - more
like reading mail... Speeds things up a lot...
Jerry McBride
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 07:26:22 -0800, John Bailo wrote:
>
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?p=2221&tag=nl.e539
>> AMD scores huge 7-round TKO over Intel in dual-core benchmarks Posted by
>> David Berlind @ 6:17 am
>>
>> The news keeps getting worse for Intel when it comes to arch nemesis AMD
>
> This is not really surprising. They only tested the older Smithfield
> (Pentium 8xx) cores. Intel released those as a stopgap. They're little
> more than two dies on a single chip with little optimization.
>
> Pressler (Pentium 9xx)
newer, better....
> will be released very soon
anyday now, wait for them to catch up...
> , and while that still
> probably won't beat the Athlon it will probably match it or close to it.
> Pressler is 65nm and more optimized for dual core operation.
>
They'll show amd... just wait and see...
> The REAL killer will be second half next year when Conroe is released,
> this will be a shared L2 cache 45nm chip that will likely blow the doors
> off the Athlon, *AND* use very little power in the process.
>
Even better tan before, faster...
> Intel is also prepping Quad and 8-core CPU's as well. Intel has basically
> resined themselves to having second best performance for the time being
> while they work on leapfrogging AMD.
>
Faster till they put the competition into the grave...
> I actually like the Athlon, and have on in my home system. I like that I
> can upgrade to an X2 without a new motherboard, and will probably do that
> soon and stay with AMD for a while. However, they're slow to support DDR2
> (and 3), and Intel is really pushing some cool stuff. I may switch back
> to Intel in 2 years or so.
AMD is good, but intel is where it's really at....
You could almost take amd and intel out of your post and substitute windows
and linux...
Don't you have anything original to post???
--
******************************************************************************
Registered Linux User Number 185956
FSF Associate Member number 2340 since 05/20/2004
Join me in chat at #linux-users on irc.freenode.net
Buy an Xbox for $149.00, run linux on it and Microsoft loses $150.00!
Buy an Xbox 360 core for $299.00, run linux on it and Microsoft loses
$11.00!
Buy an Xbox 360 for $399.00, run linux on it and Microsoft loses $126.00!
6:08pm up 78 days, 9:33, 3 users, load average: 3.09, 3.01, 2.99
tab
He is a FLAPPER, as in flapping his lips but never helping.
William Poaster
(Tim Fairchild) console, was as follows:
> William Poaster wrote something like:
>
>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:30:04 +0000, a broadcast message from the amosf
>> (Tim Fairchild) console, was as follows:
>>
>>> Sinister Midget wrote something like:
>>>
>>>> On 2005-12-05, CptDondo <y...@NsOeSiPnAeMr.com> posted something
>>>> concerning:
>>>>> DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh!!!!????
>>>>
>>>> Winders has the higher price and the lower performance.
>>>>
>>>> Linux has the higher performance and the lower price.
>>>>
>>>> It's an either/or situation. You can have higher price or higher
>>>> performance, but not both (in this comparison).
>>>>
>>>> Score one for DooFu$.
>>>
>>> Doof is around again? Cool. Leafnode is working well.
>>>
>>> Thanks guys!
>>
>> YW! :-)
>
> What I like about it on dialup is that it makes news reading better - more
> like reading mail... Speeds things up a lot...
Yes, I can see the advantage of that.
Erik Funkenbusch
> begin virus.txt.scr Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
>> On 05 Dec 2005 22:08:49 GMT, Peter Jensen wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Intel is also prepping Quad and 8-core CPU's as well. Intel has
>>>> basically resined themselves to having second best performance for the
>>>> time being while they work on leapfrogging AMD.
>>>
>>> Right, and of course AMD will just sit idly by while this happens,
>>> right?
>>
>> I don't know, they haven't said anything.
>
> Well, you seemed so mightily sure that Intel will "leapfrog AMD"
Read what I said again.
amosf (tim fairchild)
Although, just trying suse 10 on another PC in the house and I note that
knode 0.9.2 does allow filtering on other headers... Must update one day,
but leafnode does it well and I don't really need the option to see doof
and tab posts.
Aragorn
following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.advocacy...:/
> DFS wrote:
>
>>
>> The results of Windows vs. Linux would be a similar rout: Windows in
>> a clean-sweep.
>
> Data please?
All in his head.
>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>
> a wash. Either one works fine.
Negative. GNU/Linux works fine, Windows raises the impression that it
works fine.
>> Gaming: Windows
>
> Perhaps; I don't game.
There are far more games out for Windows. However, there are also loads
of games for GNU/Linux, and the gaming experience isn't any better on
Windows.
>> Multitasking: Windows
>
> Not a chance. Windows is still a single user OS, with enough 'legacy'
> apps to warrant being single-tasking as well. A rogue app can take
> down the computer.
Windows *is* multi-tasking, although its multi-user functionality is,
debatable - I personally feel that it isn't a true multi-user OS. A
rogue application taking the computer down has more to do with the
intrinsic insecurities of Windows and with Microsoft's notorious lack
of commitment to quality and bugfixing.
As for which platform is better at multi-tasking, GNU/Linux wins hands
down, as to all UNIX-style operating systems for that matter.
>> Photo Editing: Windows
>
> No way. Why are all the big studios using linux?
There are no big studios in the mind of /DFS./ The world around him is
exactly the same as his own desktop and his own preferences.
Even if you're not a racist, /DFS/ will accuse you of being one, just
because he is and in his mind, everyone is like him.
>> MP3 encoding: Windows
>
> Get real. Sony anyone?
Never existed. Never happened. Those are all fabricated lies from
"COLA-nuts". We are out to get him.
>> Video encoding: Windows
>
> I didn't know mplayer/mythtv/xine was native to windows....
Hmm... LucasFilm, Industrial Light & Magic,... Oh, that's right, they
don't exist in the /DFS/ Universe, where the white race has supremacy
over all others.
>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>
> Huh!!!!????
<DFS logic>
Oh, come on! Everyone knows that a 250 Euro license to use - not own -
Windows XP is much more affordable than GNU/Linux which is offered for
free and which you get to own...
</DFS logic>
The above are *all* his own personal choices. They are _not_
statistics, and nothing that man says is to be taken seriously at any
time.
It will always be Windows for him, no matter what any tests, benchmarks
or professional opinions were to say. Micro$oft /0wns/ his soul.
If he ever had one, that is...
Now if we were all to start ignoring this man, I wouldn't have to read
his drivel in the quoted sections of other people's posts.
--
With kind regards,
*Aragorn*
(Registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
Aragorn
following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.advocacy...:/
> After takin' a swig o' grog, billwg belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>> Gaming: Windows
>
> These two have some merit, for Joe Consumer, since it's the dominant
> consumer platform.
>
>>> Multitasking: Windows
>>> Photo Editing: Windows
>>> MP3 encoding: Windows
>>> Video encoding: Windows
>
> I would vote Linux for the four above.
>
>>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>
> That last one is especially humorous.
>
>> Well, OK, but you are overlooking the very important personal finance
>> use!
>
> GNU has that covered.
No, what he means is the bonus Microsoft pays you to advocate Windows on
/C.O.L.A./ <grin>
billwg
>
> As if Quicken is the only consumer-level financial app out there.
>
It is the preferred one by my bank and they only accept two, Quicken and
Money.
Linønut
> "Linųnut" <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?="@bone.com> wrote in message
> news:_8SdnQIcCb6sLAne...@comcast.com...
>>
>> As if Quicken is the only consumer-level financial app out there.
>>
> The only one that is any good,
My god, we're talking a consumer transaction app, not a full-blown
business accounting suite. Get real.
> nut,
That's you, not me.
> and the market leader far and away!
OSS/FS is not defined by market.
> It is the preferred one by my bank and they only accept two, Quicken and
> Money.
No. They accept a protocol/data-format. As far as I know, GnuCash and
MoneyDance both support it.
My ISP says they only support Windows (and Mac), but I do everything on
it using Linux.
My hardware (laser printer, routers, mice, video cards) claim only to
support Windows (and Mac). But, nonetheless, I use them in Linux.
You need to look past the "package", the wrapper, and understand that
such is merely a veneer to prettify the product for the shelf.
--
I love the smell of code compiling in the morning. It smells like... Freedom.
Freeride
> Actually, roadmaps are how hardware vendors plan for the future. This
> is what caused apple to choose Intel chips rather than AMD ones for
> their new platforms.
Bullshit! Intels monopoly and dirty trick won them that.
> Intel has some major performance/watt stuff coming out with a roadmap
> stretching out to 2011.
Sure and Microsoft had a new file system and CLI coming out with the
release Longhorn/Vista, where is that?
> What has AMD shown? Very little about the future. Maybe they have a
> lot in the works, but if they don't tell anyone about it, they're not
> going to get vendors to sign on in the face of Intel's roadmap.
Tell everyone about chips that do not exist or are 5 years down the road?
Reminds me of another company that promises that world and shows up with a
handful of dirt.
Peter Köhlmann
I did
--
To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it.
To mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it.
William Poaster
console, was as follows:
> On Monday 05 December 2005 18:53, Linųnut stood up and spoke the
> following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.advocacy...:/
>
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, billwg belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>>> Gaming: Windows
>>
>> These two have some merit, for Joe Consumer, since it's the dominant
>> consumer platform.
>>
>>>> Multitasking: Windows
>>>> Photo Editing: Windows
>>>> MP3 encoding: Windows
>>>> Video encoding: Windows
>>
>> I would vote Linux for the four above.
>>
>>>> Price vs. performance: Windows
>>
>> That last one is especially humorous.
>>
>>> Well, OK, but you are overlooking the very important personal finance
>>> use!
>>
>> GNU has that covered.
>
> No, what he means is the bonus Microsoft pays you to advocate Windows on
> /C.O.L.A./ <grin>
LOL
William Poaster
console, was as follows:
<snip>
> <DFS logic>
>
> Oh, come on! Everyone knows that a 250 Euro license to use - not own -
> Windows XP is much more affordable than GNU/Linux which is offered for
> free and which you get to own...
>
> </DFS logic>
>
> The above are *all* his (DFS) own personal choices. They are _not_
> statistics, and nothing that man says is to be taken seriously at any
> time.
I never did take DFS seriously, he's made too many stupid statements for
that.
> It will always be Windows for him, no matter what any tests, benchmarks
> or professional opinions were to say. Micro$oft /0wns/ his soul.
Lock, stock & barrel.
> If he ever had one, that is...
Maybe he downloaded one from M$....
> Now if we were all to start ignoring this man, I wouldn't have to read
> his drivel in the quoted sections of other people's posts.
I agree. Or if they felt they *had* to reply, at least snip his drivel out?
billwg
> After takin' a swig o' grog, billwg belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> "Linųnut" <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?="@bone.com> wrote in message
>> news:_8SdnQIcCb6sLAne...@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> As if Quicken is the only consumer-level financial app out there.
>>>
>> The only one that is any good,
>
> My god, we're talking a consumer transaction app, not a full-blown
> business accounting suite. Get real.
>
heard a rumor that even Bill Gates uses Quicken although he probably
says he uses MS Money.
>
> You need to look past the "package", the wrapper, and understand that
> such is merely a veneer to prettify the product for the shelf.
>
Well, nut, you need to do that with linux to be sure. But most people
follow the directions, I believe, and so they buy what their doctor or
bank or lawyer or friend or any other trusted advisor recommends. Don't
you really do that yourself? If your mother said "Nut, Tide is a lot
better than Fab!", you would buy a box of Tide over the others.
Same way with Windows and computers and such.
Linønut
> Well that is all I need for my few millions, nut! What do you need? I
> heard a rumor that even Bill Gates uses Quicken although he probably
> says he uses MS Money.
I doubt either Bill or Melinda fiddle with that stuff. And, if they
did, it would be Melinda doing it.
>> You need to look past the "package", the wrapper, and understand that
>> such is merely a veneer to prettify the product for the shelf.
>>
> Well, nut, you need to do that with linux to be sure.
No. Those who want the functionality, get it, quite often with no
package whatsoever.
> But most people
> follow the directions, I believe, and so they buy what their doctor or
> bank or lawyer or friend or any other trusted advisor recommends. Don't
> you really do that yourself?
Yes.
> If your mother said "Nut, Tide is a lot
> better than Fab!", you would buy a box of Tide over the others.
Sure.
> Same way with Windows and computers and such.
Except for one big difference -- I am that developer or friend or
trusted advisor.
My advice -- avoid Windows.
billwg
>
> I doubt either Bill or Melinda fiddle with that stuff. And, if they
> did, it would be Melinda doing it.
>
You are being a deviant, nut! Careful.
billwg
>
>>> You need to look past the "package", the wrapper, and understand
>>> that
>>> such is merely a veneer to prettify the product for the shelf.
>>>
>> Well, nut, you need to do that with linux to be sure.
>
> No. Those who want the functionality, get it, quite often with no
> package whatsoever.
>
with linux! LOL!!!
>> But most people
>> follow the directions, I believe, and so they buy what their doctor
>> or
>> bank or lawyer or friend or any other trusted advisor recommends.
>> Don't
>> you really do that yourself?
>
> Yes.
>
>> If your mother said "Nut, Tide is a lot
>> better than Fab!", you would buy a box of Tide over the others.
>
> Sure.
>
>> Same way with Windows and computers and such.
>
> Except for one big difference -- I am that developer or friend or
> trusted advisor.
>
Well, most of the time you are not, nut. Look up the concept in Google
or such. Keywords are "trusted supplier", marketing, sales...
> My advice -- avoid Windows.
>
Impractical advice. Immediately relegates you to the flakes and nuts
category in most people's minds.
CptDondo
>>>Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>
>>a wash. Either one works fine.
>
>
> Negative. GNU/Linux works fine, Windows raises the impression that it
> works fine.
Where I work, was a pure 100% windows world. I am now the sole linux
developer. Guess what? My email never crashes, never gets lost, my
documents always open, and my data stays intact... (except for the one
time that I did an rm -rf * as root.... but that's another story).
Anyway, people are coming to me and bitching about their computers. And
I can truly say that I am baffled. My standard answer is "I don't
understand. Why do you put up with that?"
Recently, we needed a service ticket tracking system. The win admin got
together a proposal, costing some thousands $, and requiring a new
server. I set up rt in about an hour on my workstation.... Free, and
far better than the expensive MS based system....
Anyway, people are starting to come around, but the mindset is
incredible. If it is MS, it is good. Anything else is a virus. (The
old admin wouldn't even allow me to put a linux box on the network,
fearing that it would cause viruses.... Really, I'm not making that up.)
Erik Funkenbusch
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:38:39 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
>> Actually, roadmaps are how hardware vendors plan for the future. This
>> is what caused apple to choose Intel chips rather than AMD ones for
>> their new platforms.
>
> Bullshit! Intels monopoly and dirty trick won them that.
No, Apple chose Intel based solely on their low power/high performance
technologies coming down the line. Apple has been talking about
performance/watt a *LOT* lately, and it's clear that this is very important
to them.
>> Intel has some major performance/watt stuff coming out with a roadmap
>> stretching out to 2011.
>
> Sure and Microsoft had a new file system and CLI coming out with the
> release Longhorn/Vista, where is that?
Intel is not Microsoft. They have a very good history of shipping what
they promise (with a few exceptions).
>> What has AMD shown? Very little about the future. Maybe they have a
>> lot in the works, but if they don't tell anyone about it, they're not
>> going to get vendors to sign on in the face of Intel's roadmap.
>
> Tell everyone about chips that do not exist or are 5 years down the road?
> Reminds me of another company that promises that world and shows up with a
> handful of dirt.
Intel's major advances are not 5 years down the road, at most they're 1
year.
Erik Funkenbusch
> begin virus.txt.scr Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:42:59 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>> begin virus.txt.scr Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05 Dec 2005 22:08:49 GMT, Peter Jensen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>
>>>>> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Intel is also prepping Quad and 8-core CPU's as well. Intel has
>>>>>> basically resined themselves to having second best performance for the
>>>>>> time being while they work on leapfrogging AMD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, and of course AMD will just sit idly by while this happens,
>>>>> right?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know, they haven't said anything.
>>>
>>> Well, you seemed so mightily sure that Intel will "leapfrog AMD"
>>
>> Read what I said again.
>
> I did
Then perhaps you'll notice where I said "wile they WORK ON", not "WILL
leapfrog AMD". Will and won't are yet to be seen, but from the public
plans Intel seems to have the advantage in a years time.
tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com
>
> As for the T1 line -- I'm getting about 150 kB, which is
> just about a T1 line (1.544 megabits) if I'm not mistaken,
> on my DSL (downloads, admittedly -- uploads are a piddly
> 128 kb, if I'm not mistaken), and now they're advertising
> 700 kB. Pretty cool -- if one can afford it.
Yes, I'm running DSL now as well... but back in the early
90's a T1 to the home was unheard of. I remember the guy
who installed the smartjack saying he had never installed
one in a home before, and I might be the only person in
Milwaukee to have one.
It did not last long. My business grew and I eventually
got office space, moved the T1 and the Cisco router there.
In a way, I miss those days... no commute, all the comforts
of home just one door away from my office, a cat on top of
the monitor and a beer next to the keyboard while I code.
Cheers,
Thad
John Bailo
> What has AMD shown? Very little about the future. Maybe they have a lot
> in the works, but if they don't tell anyone about it, they're not going to
> get vendors to sign on in the face of Intel's roadmap.
I think that AMD is realistic in that they see the end of Moore's Law has
happened whereas Intel is still trying to ride that dead wave.
AMD works on using the available architectures and refining them -- they are
true engineers -- in the same way that Linux developers are true engineers.
Microsoft/Intel are marketing people who rode the Moore's Law wave -- they
were built around the idea that you didn't have to make it good because the
next generation of chip would carry the OS and give the customer the
speed/performance/price enhancements they really wanted.
Kutloze Scheefgepoepte
message
n4f8l$27n$1...@tux.glaci.com:
Waddaya want, a fucking medal, you useless cunting Jew fuck of a Jackdaw?
--
If, like me, you find something you enjoy doing so much -
you'll never have to do a days work in your life.
The Ghost In The Machine
<will...@jvyycbnfg.zr.hx>
wrote
on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:26:19 +0000
<pan.2005.12.05....@jvyycbnfg.zr.hx>:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:00:03 +0000, a broadcast message from the The Ghost
> In The Machine console, was as follows:
>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Erik Funkenbusch <er...@despam-funkenbusch.com>
>> wrote
>> on Mon, 5 Dec 2005 12:14:54 -0600
>> <1f75926btbxpw$.d...@funkenbusch.com>:
>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 07:26:22 -0800, John Bailo wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?p=2221&tag=nl.e539 AMD scores huge
>>>> 7-round TKO over Intel in dual-core benchmarks Posted by David Berlind
>>>> @ 6:17 am
>>>>
>>>> The news keeps getting worse for Intel when it comes to arch nemesis
>>>> AMD
>>>
>>> This is not really surprising. They only tested the older Smithfield
>>> (Pentium 8xx) cores. Intel released those as a stopgap. They're little
>>> more than two dies on a single chip with little optimization.
>>>
>>> probably won't beat the Athlon it will probably match it or close to it.
>>> Pressler is 65nm and more optimized for dual core operation.
>>>
>>> this will be a shared L2 cache 45nm chip that will likely blow the doors
>>> off the Athlon, *AND* use very little power in the process.
>>>
>>> basically resined themselves to having second best performance for the
>>> time being while they work on leapfrogging AMD.
>>>
>>> I can upgrade to an X2 without a new motherboard, and will probably do
>>> that soon and stay with AMD for a while. However, they're slow to
>>> support DDR2 (and 3), and Intel is really pushing some cool stuff. I
>>> may switch back to Intel in 2 years or so.
>>
>>
>
> Yeah, riiiiight, & AMD are going to wait for Intel to catch up? <G>
>
Somehow, I rather doubt it. :-) I've got an Athlon XP 1600+ (1.4 GHz)
at home now, and it works fine, although I wouldn't mind upgrading
the microprocessor -- to another Athlon, I suppose, in this mobo.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
Linønut
>> My advice -- avoid Windows.
>>
> Impractical advice. Immediately relegates you to the flakes and nuts
> category in most people's minds.
If true, too bad, then.
DFS
> Aragorn wrote:
>
>>>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>>
>>> a wash. Either one works fine.
>>
>>
>> Negative. GNU/Linux works fine, Windows raises the impression that
>> it works fine.
>
> Where I work, was a pure 100% windows world. I am now the sole linux
> developer. Guess what? My email never crashes, never gets lost, my
> documents always open, and my data stays intact...
So do 99.999% of Windows users' emails, docs and data.
> Anyway, people are coming to me and bitching about their computers.
> And I can truly say that I am baffled. My standard answer is "I don't
> understand. Why do you put up with that?"
Yet you put up with Linux. I'm baffled.
> Recently, we needed a service ticket tracking system. The win admin
> got together a proposal, costing some thousands $, and requiring a new
> server. I set up rt in about an hour on my workstation.... Free, and
> far better than the expensive MS based system....
If rt was 'far better' then that was one crappy MS-based system in the
proposal.
Take a look at the goofy rt
http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/screenshots/3.0/searchresults.gif. It looks
like the usual half-ass open source solution (the other half-ass being the
OS on your computer).
There are many great, inexpensive, closed-source, Windows-based (or
web-based) trouble-ticket systems out there:
http://www.thinkgss.com/html/help.html
http://www.cynergysoftware.com/helpdesksoftware.php
http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Help_Desk/Browser_Based/
The majority are actually far better than rt.
> Anyway, people are starting to come around,
They are? Who? What companies?
> but the mindset is incredible. If it is MS, it is good.
Almost universally true.
> Anything else is a virus.
That's not true.
> (The
> old admin wouldn't even allow me to put a linux box on the network,
> fearing that it would cause viruses.... Really, I'm not making that
> up.)
Fear of the unknown.
GayClod
He was considerate enough to leave a CV detailing his fuckwittery.
http://www.dias.net/~tdphette/resume.htm
THAD PHETTEPLACE
GLACI, Inc.
P.O. Box 26354
Wauwatosa, WI 53226 ..Phone: (414)405-6388
Email: tdph...@dias.net
--
linux makes you stupid
The Ghost In The Machine
<tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com>
wrote
on Tue, 6 Dec 2005 16:46:13 +0000 (UTC)
<dn4f8l$27n$1...@tux.glaci.com>:
With the rate housing prices are going, one might have to put
hotel/hostel/home suites in the office buildings. :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Thad
GreyCloud
>>>
>>>Did I hear 'sombody' ;) mention you wanted my ass, Linųnut?
>>
>>You should keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.
>
>
> Trust you to come sniffing when ass is mentioned, huh?
>
> You're a fucking cling-on, GayClod... nobody likes you, and nobody responds
> to your inane linux posts!
>
> You are a drain on boredom.
>
> linux turns you into a useless GayClod.
>
Poor sore keyster. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
He left his tool out and some kid stole it. Keep yammering you big queer.
--
Where are we going?
And why am I in this handbasket?
GreyCloud
> After takin' a swig o' grog, GreyCloud belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>
>>Toolman Tim wrote:
>>
>>>Linønut <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?="@bone.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>Did I hear 'sombody' ;) mention you wanted my ass, Linønut?
>>
>>You should keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.
>
>
> This Toolman faker is a childish prat.
>
Of course he is. One of the greased monkeys at M$, obviously.
GreyCloud
Say, didn't you get into a tiff with someone called Kulkis a long time
ago? There was someone else called nomen nescio as well.
FUD
9adnSEyhPD...@bresnan.com:
> Linønut wrote:
>
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, GreyCloud belched out this bit o'
>> wisdom:
>>> Toolman Tim wrote:
>>>
>>>> Linønut <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?="@bone.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> Did I hear 'sombody' ;) mention you wanted my ass, Linønut?
>>>
>>> You should keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.
>>
>>
>> This Toolman faker is a childish prat.
>>
>
> Of course he is. One of the greased monkeys at M$, obviously.
No, he does not work for us. You have my assurances.
--
What makes you a person doubt you is the horror at the thought they may be
wrong.
Kutloze Scheefgepoepte
n4j90$49k$1...@domitilla.aioe.org:
I don't have any openings for him, do you?
THAD PHETTEPLACE
GLACI, Inc.
P.O. Box 26354
Wauwatosa, WI 53226 ...................................... Phone:
(414)405-6388
Email: tdph...@dias.net
EDUCATION
1986 - 1990 Attended UW Oshkosh and graduated with a B.S. in Computer
Science and Information Systems. GPA: 3.45.
PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES
C/C++, Java, VisualBasic, dBase/Clipper, Pascal, COBOL. I have a strong
application development and project management background.
NETWORK TECHNOLOGIES
I am experienced with a wide variety of network protocols and hardware,
including TCP/IP, IPX/SPX, and NetBEUI. Hardware I have worked with includes
Cisco, Livingston, Ascend, and US Robotics. I have worked with dialup PPP,
ISDN, T1, Channelized T1 and PRI, frame relay networks, and even microwave
relays.
EMPLOYEMENT HISTORY
1996 - Present... Direct Internet Access Services (DIAS, Inc.)
Presently I am presently lead technical consultant and half owner of DIAS,
Inc.
The network infrastructure includes 10baseT and 100baseT Ethernet, T1, PRI
and BRI / ISDN circuits, and analog modem communication over channelized T1
circuits. The primary network protocol used is TCP/IP, though IPX/SPX and
NetBEUI are also used. DIAS uses Ascend MAX 4000 communication chassis for
dial-in service as well as WAN connections. We also use Cisco routers and
Livingston terminal servers. I have been the principal person recommending
and configuring the network hardware.
File servers at DIAS consist of WindowsNT and BSDI/UNIX systems. A large
part of my duties at DIAS has included developing custom written C/C++
applications to provided centralized administration of the network and
servers. Software developed provides an easy to use web interface for adding
and maintaining customer information. A single interface provides access to
the UNIX user databases, Domain Name Service configuration files, billing
databases, and usage statistics. Programming work also included MS Visual
C++ development to create custom DLL server extensions to the Microsoft
Internet Information server. The DLL extensions provided sophisticated
database access within DIAS customer web pages.
1994 - 1996 The Great Lakes Area Commercial Internet (GLACI, Inc.)
Established my own software development company that specializes in
developing business applications. The flagship product was GLACI-SecureServ,
a web server program for Novell NetWare. I was primary programmer on the
project. The software was developed using Watcom's C/C++ cross compiler and
runs as a NetWare Loadable Module (NLM) on Novell file servers version 3.x
and 4.x. It was the first web server for the NetWare operating systems and
the first NetWare web server to include SSL encryption. It has been sold
thousands of copies all over the globe and is very popular with
universities. In 1996 the core web technology was sold to HiTec Software.
The product is now sold under the name NetBasic. My experience developing
the first web server for NetWare was a very exciting time. I was interviewed
and quoted in several computer industry trade magazines and was a
contributing author in the book "Connecting NetWare to the Internet".
1990 - 1994 Allen-Bradley / Rockwell Automation.
Held the position of Network Systems Analyst. My primary responsibilities
included the investigation and management of Internet related technologies,
enterprise email solutions, and a variety of office automation projects. I
worked on LAN/WAN technologies and administered a large Sun Microsystems /
UNIX network.
I was technical zone contact for the Allen-Bradley's Internet domain
(ab.com). My responsibilities included planning and implementation of
subnets and subdomains and administration of multiple domain servers.
Implementation of a worldwide SMTP/MIME email backbone and integration of
SMTP email services with a wide variety of PC/LAN and mainframe based email
systems. This included development of custom email gateway software that
integrated not only with Allen-Bradley's systems but also with Rockwell's
corporate email backbone.
My duties also included UNIX system administration in support of a large
CAD/engineering and desktop publishing user community. Systems were
primarily Sun workstations with a few SCO UNIX and HP-UX systems.
1986 - 1990 Koehn Institute for Information Technology
Worked as an intern developing custom database applications and installing
networks for major companies in the Fox Valley region. Database development
was done primarily in dBase and Clipper, though some projects were
programmed in C, VisualBasic, and COBOL. I quickly rose to the position of
project manager and was usually in charge of a project team of four student
interns. My duties included meeting with the client to evaluate customer
needs, developing project plans and designs, and delegating responsibilities
to the team members and coordinating the development effort. Some of the
more interesting projects included:
Conversion of a mainframe based COBOL inventory tracking program to a PC
based Basic application.
Retrofit a 1960's automated drill press, normally programmed via paper tape,
to be programmed and operated via custom written software on a PC.
Developed training software for Wisconsin Public Service to assist in the
training of utility meter readers.
Installed an Ethernet LAN for a major paper manufacturing company and
assisted them in migrating applications from their mainframe to desktop
computers.
REFERENCES
William G. Koch, Jr. Senior Consultant
IKON Technology Services
11425 West Lake Park Drive, Milwaukee, WI 53224
(414)577-6600
Sue Nietzel Director
Richard W. Koehn Institute for Information Technology
800 Algoma Blvd., Oshkosh, WI 54901
(414)424-2366
tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com
>
> He was considerate enough to leave a CV detailing his fuckwittery.
>
> http://www.dias.net/~tdphette/resume.htm
>
> THAD PHETTEPLACE
> GLACI, Inc.
> P.O. Box 26354
> Wauwatosa, WI 53226 ..Phone: (414)405-6388
> Email: tdph...@dias.net
Actually, some of that is out of date. I left DIAS years ago. My
post office box is now 14686, West Allis, WI 53214. That resume also
neglects to mention the writing I did for the Red Hat Linux Bible
series. If you want my current email address, delete the 'remove-this'
from the address on this post. I should also note that it is a
disposable address that I will delete if it becomes over burdened with
spam. The phone number is correct but I tend to not answer numbers I
don't recognize.
If you dig a bit more, you can even find the address to my house
including a picture and a map. Knock yourself out.
My updated resume is available on request.
Later,
Thad
William Poaster
Ever since I've been building my own PCs, I've used AMD cpu's. IMO you get
"More bang for your bucks" as the 'Merkins would say, or "Value for money"
as we say in the UK. However, I just think they're better than Intel. :-)
--
If a cell phone call was to fall into a black hole,
would it be a cingularity?
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:39:04 -0600,
Erik Funkenbusch <er...@despam-funkenbusch.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:36:16 -0700, Freeride wrote:
>> Sure and Microsoft had a new file system and CLI coming out with the
>> release Longhorn/Vista, where is that?
>
> Intel is not Microsoft. They have a very good history of shipping what
> they promise (with a few exceptions).
>
Thank you Erik, that was almost priceless.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
I've noticed that when a new policy mentions me by name,
it's never a good thing.
GayClod
Rumour has it the janitor is planning to retire.
I'll pass his name along.
The Ghost In The Machine
<nospam@dfs_.com>
wrote
on Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:36:06 -0500
<x1klf.28368$eM7....@fe05.lga>:
> CptDondo wrote:
>> Aragorn wrote:
>>
>>>>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>>>
>>>> a wash. Either one works fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> Negative. GNU/Linux works fine, Windows raises the impression that
>>> it works fine.
>>
>> Where I work, was a pure 100% windows world. I am now the sole linux
>> developer. Guess what? My email never crashes, never gets lost, my
>> documents always open, and my data stays intact...
>
> So do 99.999% of Windows users' emails, docs and data.
It has to be reliable. Viruses use it. :-)
>
>
>> Anyway, people are coming to me and bitching about their computers.
>> And I can truly say that I am baffled. My standard answer is "I don't
>> understand. Why do you put up with that?"
>
> Yet you put up with Linux. I'm baffled.
Yes, we should just shut down this Linux thingy outright,
and have everyone use Windows XP Home Edition (or,
for those in a worker bee environment, XP Professional
Edition). That would be just so much more logical than
putting up with Linux's quirks:
- more standard GUIs
- more easily customizable scripting
- a more easily customizable kernel
- more functionality in distro offerings such as a C++ compiler,
a choice of web servers with unlimited CAL equivalents
(bandwidth permitting), and free remote desktop capability
etc.
>
>
>
>> Recently, we needed a service ticket tracking system. The win admin
>> got together a proposal, costing some thousands $, and requiring a new
>> server. I set up rt in about an hour on my workstation.... Free, and
>> far better than the expensive MS based system....
>
> If rt was 'far better' then that was one crappy MS-based system in the
> proposal.
It is not "far better". It is not even better. It's merely different.
It depends on the metric; for many users Windows is excellent, but
there are those who think differently.
And there are those who have been badly burned by Windows in the past.
>
> Take a look at the goofy rt
> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/screenshots/3.0/searchresults.gif. It looks
> like the usual half-ass open source solution (the other half-ass being the
> OS on your computer).
Interesting. Are you claiming that this is because BestPractical
is using Apache, or what? I'll admit that form looks peculiar.
>
> There are many great, inexpensive, closed-source, Windows-based (or
> web-based) trouble-ticket systems out there:
> http://www.thinkgss.com/html/help.html
> http://www.cynergysoftware.com/helpdesksoftware.php
> http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Help_Desk/Browser_Based/
>
> The majority are actually far better than rt.
>
>
>
>
>> Anyway, people are starting to come around,
>
> They are? Who? What companies?
Only companies that are competing with Microsoft. They won't
be around very long, of course; you know, companies like
IBM, Sun, Dell, and HP.
>
>
>
>> but the mindset is incredible. If it is MS, it is good.
>
> Almost universally true.
Indeed. Microsoft is good. The trouble is, Linux is better. :-P
>
>
>
>> Anything else is a virus.
>
> That's not true.
Yes, that is true. Linux is a virus. It is taking over
Microsoft's market, and will ultimately, if not eradicated,
result in Microsoft dying a horrible, ugly death, much
like Ebola (though not nearly as quickly!).
It *must be stopped*. Otherwise, this might happen:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/
(I'll admit I have no idea why the author decided to use those
particular colors.)
>
>
>
>> (The
>> old admin wouldn't even allow me to put a linux box on the network,
>> fearing that it would cause viruses.... Really, I'm not making that
>> up.)
>
> Fear of the unknown.
>
Fear of the *known*. Linux boxes can damage a Microsoft
network by actually responding correctly to queries. :-)
The only examples I can think of admittedly are Kerberos
and Samba. However, Linux implements CIFS/SMB using
Samba very well, which damages Microsoft networks because
Microsoft can't sell into those networks. For its part
Microsoft Kerberos is implemented in a different fashion
from traditional Unix kerberos implementations (because of
a bad spec) and therefore a Linux Kerberos server would
confuse just about everybody.
And of course an Apache webserver on a Microsoft network
might actually encourage everyone to use a non-IE browser.
(Not that Apache proper cares all that much, but AIUI IIS
has some special code that prefers IE.)
Oh, the horror. Oh, the calamity. Can't have that upstart
Linux damaging Microsoft profits, now, can we?
mlw
This is an interesting thing to say. It isn't clear to me that Moore's law
is dead, and people have been saying Moore's law is dead for almost a
decade.
I think the important point is that there are two measures of performance,
raw linear power, i.e. what moore's law predicts and "practical" applicable
power requirements which defines how much "raw linear" power is needed to
accomplish a task in the latest modern terms.
(you can tell I've been thinking about this)
Moore's law and "practical power" requirements have been fairly evenly
matched in the last 25 or so years, but it seems that "practical power"
requirements are expanding faster than Moore's law.
By all measure, the new $500 PC is an amazing amount of computing power.
Yet, as software becomes more and more complex, performing more and more
tasks, and making established tasks more and more difficult (text vs GUI,
font kerning, transparency, etc.), it looks like we piling on more crap
than can be offset by Moore's law. If Moore's law ever does come to an end,
we are in deep trouble.
amosf (Tim Fairchild)
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS
> <nospam@dfs_.com>
> wrote
> on Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:36:06 -0500
> <x1klf.28368$eM7....@fe05.lga>:
>> CptDondo wrote:
>>> Aragorn wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>>>>
>>>>> a wash. Either one works fine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Negative. GNU/Linux works fine, Windows raises the impression that
>>>> it works fine.
>>>
>>> Where I work, was a pure 100% windows world. I am now the sole linux
>>> developer. Guess what? My email never crashes, never gets lost, my
>>> documents always open, and my data stays intact...
>>
>> So do 99.999% of Windows users' emails, docs and data.
>
> It has to be reliable. Viruses use it. :-)
Ahhh, leafnode does the job again. Cool.
--
-
Linux works.
-
mlw
> CptDondo wrote:
>> Aragorn wrote:
>>
>>>>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>>>
>>>> a wash. Either one works fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> Negative. GNU/Linux works fine, Windows raises the impression that
>>> it works fine.
>>
>> Where I work, was a pure 100% windows world. I am now the sole linux
>> developer. Guess what? My email never crashes, never gets lost, my
>> documents always open, and my data stays intact...
>
> So do 99.999% of Windows users' emails, docs and data.
This goes counter to my experiences and most reports of Windows "stability,"
so site a source for this number, or a reason for your estimate of it, or
I'll just assume you are lying.
>
>
>> Anyway, people are coming to me and bitching about their computers.
>> And I can truly say that I am baffled. My standard answer is "I don't
>> understand. Why do you put up with that?"
>
> Yet you put up with Linux. I'm baffled.
Well, let's see: With Windows I would get viruses and other malware and
instability, with Linux, I get security and stability.
Window is just not worth the aggravation.
>
>
>
>> Recently, we needed a service ticket tracking system. The win admin
>> got together a proposal, costing some thousands $, and requiring a new
>> server. I set up rt in about an hour on my workstation.... Free, and
>> far better than the expensive MS based system....
>
> If rt was 'far better' then that was one crappy MS-based system in the
> proposal.
>
> Take a look at the goofy rt
> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/screenshots/3.0/searchresults.gif. It
> looks like the usual half-ass open source solution (the other half-ass
> being the OS on your computer).
>
> There are many great, inexpensive, closed-source, Windows-based (or
> web-based) trouble-ticket systems out there:
> http://www.thinkgss.com/html/help.html
> http://www.cynergysoftware.com/helpdesksoftware.php
> http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Help_Desk/Browser_Based/
>
> The majority are actually far better than rt.
It is really funny. This is a common problem with Windows morons. They often
frame any debate in aesthetics and/or speed. Yes, while aesthetics and
performance are important criteria, any viable solution must also address
reliability, security, up front and maintenance costs, licensing issues,
long term vendor viability, and so much more.
Windows does have better graphical performance, but this is at a cost of
stability, and for a workstation, i.e. where work is done, it isn't a good
trade. Windows aesthetics is more or less market hype and really hard to
quantify and anything other than myth.
This leaves application performance, where Linux will usually win,
aesthetics which is a matter of taste and, depending on target audience,
may not be a driving factor, reliability - Linux, security - Linux,
maintenance - Linux, licensing issues - Linux, and long term vendor
viability -- If you have the source, you don't have to rely on the vendor.
>
>
>
>
>> Anyway, people are starting to come around,
>
> They are? Who? What companies?
My wife's company is switching to Macintosh, in no small way due to
Microsoft's "Microsecurity"
>
>> but the mindset is incredible. If it is MS, it is good.
>
> Almost universally true.
In my experience, mostly false. Microsoft Bob, Microsoft Dogs, Microsoft's
security problems, microsoft reliability problems.
DFS
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, DFS
> <nospam@dfs_.com>
> wrote
> on Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:36:06 -0500
> <x1klf.28368$eM7....@fe05.lga>:
>> CptDondo wrote:
>>> Aragorn wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>>>>
>>>>> a wash. Either one works fine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Negative. GNU/Linux works fine, Windows raises the impression that
>>>> it works fine.
>>>
>>> Where I work, was a pure 100% windows world. I am now the sole
>>> linux developer. Guess what? My email never crashes, never gets
>>> lost, my documents always open, and my data stays intact...
>>
>> So do 99.999% of Windows users' emails, docs and data.
>
> It has to be reliable. Viruses use it. :-)
So do 600,000,000 or so human organisms...
>>> Anyway, people are coming to me and bitching about their computers.
>>> And I can truly say that I am baffled. My standard answer is "I
>>> don't understand. Why do you put up with that?"
>>
>> Yet you put up with Linux. I'm baffled.
>
> Yes, we should just shut down this Linux thingy outright,
> and have everyone use Windows XP Home Edition (or,
> for those in a worker bee environment, XP Professional
> Edition). That would be just so much more logical than
> putting up with Linux's quirks:
It goes far beyond quirks and hassles, to the root cause: slopware.
> - more standard GUIs
I admit I've never heard of a 'standard GUI' let alone a 'more standard
GUI'. Are they for sale?
> - more easily customizable scripting
You misspelled inscrutable.
> - a more easily customizable kernel
True - but ask yourself "Who cares?"
"Where is the KDE documentation? Why is so much of it incomplete? How do
I take a screenshot in Linux? I hit Ctrl+C, closed my app, and now Ctrl+V
won't paste anything! Why does my system have 8 text editors? Why do these
menu items not launch? Where can I get a Linux-based educational program
for my daughter?"
Those are the things people care about.
> - more functionality in distro offerings such as a C++ compiler,
> a choice of web servers with unlimited CAL equivalents
> (bandwidth permitting), and free remote desktop capability
Again "Who cares?" The overwhelming majority of the world just doesn't care
about a C++ compiler, having a web server, or free remote desktop. That
doesn't mean they're not valuable to me, or you, or to whoever.
Linux: tell me again why aladin is in the distro?
http://packages.debian.org/stable/misc/aladin
>>> Recently, we needed a service ticket tracking system. The win admin
>>> got together a proposal, costing some thousands $, and requiring a
>>> new server. I set up rt in about an hour on my workstation....
>>> Free, and far better than the expensive MS based system....
>>
>> If rt was 'far better' then that was one crappy MS-based system in
>> the proposal.
>
> It is not "far better". It is not even better. It's merely
> different. It depends on the metric; for many users Windows is
> excellent, but there are those who think differently.
Sure. Many are found here on cola.
> And there are those who have been badly burned by Windows in the past.
OK. Linux isn't going to magically solve all their problems. But it will
create a whole bunch of new problems.
>> Take a look at the goofy rt
>> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/screenshots/3.0/searchresults.gif.
>> It looks like the usual half-ass open source solution (the other
>> half-ass being the OS on your computer).
>
> Interesting. Are you claiming that this is because BestPractical
> is using Apache, or what? I'll admit that form looks peculiar.
I'm claiming it's because that form looks peculiar, as you noticed. The
whole system looks totally unprofessional - like so much of the software in
the Linux/OSS milieu. Take a look at the commercial code in some of those
links, and you'll see a world of difference.
>>> Anyway, people are starting to come around,
>>
>> They are? Who? What companies?
>
> Only companies that are competing with Microsoft. They won't
> be around very long, of course; you know, companies like
> IBM, Sun, Dell, and HP.
Do you honestly think any of them would 'come around' if they couldn't make
money off Linux? Linux is a business proposition for those firms, and
that's it. It's not a philosophical issue like it is for you and I and
cola.
And I would guess HP is not making money off their Linux desktop offerings.
>>> but the mindset is incredible. If it is MS, it is good.
>>
>> Almost universally true.
>
> Indeed. Microsoft is good. The trouble is, Linux is better. :-P
Well, Ghost, that depends on who you ask, what their needs are, etc.
>>> Anything else is a virus.
>>
>> That's not true.
>
> Yes, that is true. Linux is a virus. It is taking over
> Microsoft's market, and will ultimately, if not eradicated,
> result in Microsoft dying a horrible, ugly death, much
> like Ebola (though not nearly as quickly!).
>
> It *must be stopped*. Otherwise, this might happen:
>
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/
>
> (I'll admit I have no idea why the author decided to use those
> particular colors.)
Lack of visual style seems endemic to Linux/OSS.
>>> (The
>>> old admin wouldn't even allow me to put a linux box on the network,
>>> fearing that it would cause viruses.... Really, I'm not making that
>>> up.)
>>
>> Fear of the unknown.
>>
>
> Fear of the *known*. Linux boxes can damage a Microsoft
> network by actually responding correctly to queries. :-)
Nice bit of sarcasm -
> The only examples I can think of admittedly are Kerberos
> and Samba. However, Linux implements CIFS/SMB using
> Samba very well, which damages Microsoft networks because
> Microsoft can't sell into those networks. For its part
> Microsoft Kerberos is implemented in a different fashion
> from traditional Unix kerberos implementations (because of
> a bad spec) and therefore a Linux Kerberos server would
> confuse just about everybody.
>
> And of course an Apache webserver on a Microsoft network
> might actually encourage everyone to use a non-IE browser.
They probably should. I use IE as little as possible - only when I want to
download updates from MS, or view certain websites or video online.
I've switched to Opera for the last month or so. Nice browser.
> (Not that Apache proper cares all that much, but AIUI IIS
> has some special code that prefers IE.)
>
> Oh, the horror. Oh, the calamity. Can't have that upstart
> Linux damaging Microsoft profits, now, can we?
Not without a long, vicious fight.
Iuput-es-nisu-djed V
person who wears tents because no regular clothes will fit, squealed:
*plonk* goes the GayClod LOL
Carlton Dranningsit-Gussleman
sputtered:
*plonk* goes the GayClod LOL
Garry Trotter
the mash-vats, discoursed:
> Toolman Tim wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> Did I hear 'sombody' ;) mention you wanted my ass, Linønut?
>>>
>>> You should keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.
>>
>>
>> Trust you to come sniffing when ass is mentioned, huh?
>>
>> You're a fucking cling-on, GayClod... nobody likes you, and nobody
>> responds to your inane linux posts!
>>
>> You are a drain on boredom.
>>
>> linux turns you into a useless GayClod.
>>
>
> Poor sore keyster. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> He left his tool out and some kid stole it. Keep yammering you big
> queer.
*plonk* goes the GayClod LOL
Raziya ibn Surayj al-Dabbah
maid, snickered:
*plonk* goes the GayClod LOL
Sinister Midget
>
> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:39:04 -0600,
> Erik Funkenbusch <er...@despam-funkenbusch.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:36:16 -0700, Freeride wrote:
>
>>> Sure and Microsoft had a new file system and CLI coming out with the
>>> release Longhorn/Vista, where is that?
>>
>> Intel is not Microsoft. They have a very good history of shipping what
>> they promise (with a few exceptions).
>>
>
> Thank you Erik, that was almost priceless.
Is that Trump I hear shouting "You're fired!" or one of the Borg?
--
It's spelled W-I-N-D-O-W-S. But it's pronounced CRAP.
Sinister Midget
> GayClod <mi...@cumulus.dom> wrote:
>>
>> He was considerate enough to leave a CV detailing his fuckwittery.
> If you dig a bit more, you can even find the address to my house
> including a picture and a map. Knock yourself out.
>
> My updated resume is available on request.
I love it when the KKKrabbapple KKKids think they're upsetting people,
only to discover they have no ammo.
--
C:\WINDOWS\RUN C:\WINDOWS\CRASH C:\ME\FDISK
Timothy Miltram
bunghole, and seller of green potatoes, whimpered:
Is that why you hide, then, occasionally popping your gormless head up over
the parapet, only to have the fucker taken off?
The ammo to which you refer is irrelevant - although, if anything, you
represent the ammo, shown by what you have been reduced to, and forced to
do, hiding for a quiet life. A bit like bowing to terrorism, if you will.
tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com
>
> I love it when the KKKrabbapple KKKids think they're upsetting people,
> only to discover they have no ammo.
proving they can do a google search. It is not like I am hiding
this stuff... I don't even have an unlisted phone number.
Nevertheless, if they are going to post my contact info, the
least they can do is strive for accuracy. :)
Thad
Gordon Murr
overdressed, rump-riding hairball, and goat keeper, groaned:
What makes you think you're that impotent?
Aragorn
the following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.advocacy...:/
Both Intel and AMD have great CPU's out, and both Intel and AMD CPU's
have shortcomings.
The main shortcoming of Intel x86-64 CPU's at this moment is that unlike
AMD CPU's, they still use an external memory controller and that the
CPU's in their SMP systems have to communicate with eachother at FSB
speed, while AMD's use the HyperTransport bus.
The main shortcoming of AMD's x86 CPU's at this moment is that they're
still stuck on the older DDR standards and that they lack
hyperthreading.
AMD's are far more power-efficient than Intels and are generally faster
at the same clock speeds, but the latter applies to single threads. In
today's IT landscape, multi-threading is a necessity.
AMD's also lack Intel's overheating protection which shuts down the CPU
to protect it when the core temperature goes up too high. On the other
hand, AMD's seem more resilient at higher core temperatures, but since
the protection mechanism is absent, you could end up frying an AMD.
My personal gripe with AMD-based systems lies with the chipsets used.
AMD-platforms almost always have to make use of third party chipsets
such as nVidia, ALi/ULi or VIA, and I'm not a fan of either of those.
Conceptually, the nForce chipset is very promising, but it also seems
less stable, and in general, that's also what applies to AMD-based
computers in general - my guess is that this is because of the chipsets
used.
Lastly, Intel has already had the Itanium out for a long time, while AMD
still focuses on the x86 architecture. The 64-bit extensions to the
x86 platform were first developed _by_ AMD, and Intel has only
countered that by doing the same thing on the Xeons and Pentium 4's.
It's all market-driven.
What I would really like to see from AMD _and_ from Intel is the
commitment to really _new_ 64-bit CPU architectures - e.g. something à
la UltraSPARC, MIPS, Alpha, PowerPC, et al - that are far more
efficient than the x86, and to provide reliable chipset solutions for
them.
But then again, what either Intel or AMD do is purely market-driven.
They are eachother's sworn enemies and that's what influences their
decisions to the highest degree.
In the meantime, truly innovative CPU designs seem to come from other
sources, such as the IBM/Toshiba cell-CPU, or the newest developments
regarding multi-threaded and multi-cored CPU's at either Sun or HP - I
forgot which one actually, but it was posted here (?) earlier this
week.
--
With kind regards,
*Aragorn*
(Registered GNU/Linux user #223157)
The Ghost In The Machine
<nospam@dfs_.com>
wrote
<BGnlf.6$tQ...@fe04.lga>:
X is fairly standard; at this point it's owned by the X.Org Foundation.
I don't know if it's been placed in ANSI/ISO, though.
For its part Win32 is also encased in stone, proprietary as it
might be otherwise.
>
>
>> - more easily customizable scripting
>
> You misspelled inscrutable.
That, too. Not everyone can understand Bash, Tcl/Tk, Perl,
Python, or Ruby.
(Not everyone should.)
>
>
>> - a more easily customizable kernel
>
> True - but ask yourself "Who cares?"
>
> "Where is the KDE documentation?
Mostly irrelevant. The question is not "Where is the
<x> documentation", but e.g. "how do I move a file?".
One doesn't query a screwdriver; one uses it.
KDE in this case is a subquery of the original objective.
> Why is so much of it incomplete?
Why indeed? I don't use KDE for the most part.
> How do I take a screenshot in Linux?
In Gnome, PrintScreen works. The results can then be saved.
> I hit Ctrl+C, closed my app, and now Ctrl+V
> won't paste anything!
Bug.
> Why does my system have 8 text editors?
Which one did you want everyone to use? I use vi, but
many use emacs (and no, I'm not going to reprise *that*
ongoing war, beyond mentioning it :-)). Other editors
include jedit (a Java-based affair), joe, nano, pico, jed,
and the venerable ex and ed. Admittedly, ex has probably
already been swallowed by vi.
For its part Windows has at least five:
Notepad
Wordpad
Edlin
Edit.com
Textpad
> Why do these menu items not launch?
Be more specific here.
> Where can I get a Linux-based educational program
> for my daughter?"
Wrong question. It should be "Where do I get a first-grade
Linux-compatible teaching program?". (Substitute grade
level as appropriate. On Windows one has many choices,
such as JumpStart.)
I don't know the answer but, again, you may get some very strange
looks if you ask the wrong question.
>
> Those are the things people care about.
Not quite, but you're close.
>
>
>
>
>> - more functionality in distro offerings such as a C++ compiler,
>> a choice of web servers with unlimited CAL equivalents
>> (bandwidth permitting), and free remote desktop capability
>
> Again "Who cares?" The overwhelming majority of the world
> just doesn't care about a C++ compiler, having a web server,
> or free remote desktop. That doesn't mean they're not valuable
> to me, or you, or to whoever.
You're right, and that's the question. What does one *do* with
a computer? Answer: manage spreadsheets (Excel), edit reports
(Word, Notepad), send mail (Outlook, Outlook Express, Eudora).
C++ is a subquery. Good catch.
>
> Linux: tell me again why aladin is in the distro?
> http://packages.debian.org/stable/misc/aladin
>
Subsubobjective. Primary objective: get data.
Secondary subojective: using uWatec, gnuplot.
In short, somebody thought it was a good idea to code it,
and somebody else to publish it in Debian. (Gentoo does
not have this package.)
>
>
>>>> Recently, we needed a service ticket tracking system. The win admin
>>>> got together a proposal, costing some thousands $, and requiring a
>>>> new server. I set up rt in about an hour on my workstation....
>>>> Free, and far better than the expensive MS based system....
>>>
>>> If rt was 'far better' then that was one crappy MS-based system in
>>> the proposal.
>>
>> It is not "far better". It is not even better. It's merely
>> different. It depends on the metric; for many users Windows is
>> excellent, but there are those who think differently.
>
> Sure. Many are found here on cola.
And many are not.
>
>
>> And there are those who have been badly burned by Windows in the past.
>
> OK. Linux isn't going to magically solve all their problems.
Linux solves *no problems at all* by itself. A screwdriver just
sits there; one has to pick it up (learn the system) and use it.
> But it will create a whole bunch of new problems.
That it will. TCO is not an invalid concept. I'm not sure,
however, how to measure it properly, but Linux will require
some (re)training.
>
>
>
>>> Take a look at the goofy rt
>>> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/screenshots/3.0/searchresults.gif.
>>> It looks like the usual half-ass open source solution (the other
>>> half-ass being the OS on your computer).
>>
>> Interesting. Are you claiming that this is because BestPractical
>> is using Apache, or what? I'll admit that form looks peculiar.
>
> I'm claiming it's because that form looks peculiar, as you noticed.
> The whole system looks totally unprofessional - like so much of the
> software in the Linux/OSS milieu. Take a look at the commercial
> code in some of those links, and you'll see a world of difference.
And this of course automatically makes a software product bad.
Got it.
>
>
>
>>>> Anyway, people are starting to come around,
>>>
>>> They are? Who? What companies?
>>
>> Only companies that are competing with Microsoft. They won't
>> be around very long, of course; you know, companies like
>> IBM, Sun, Dell, and HP.
>
> Do you honestly think any of them would 'come around' if
> they couldn't make money off Linux? Linux is a business
> proposition for those firms, and that's it. It's not a
> philosophical issue like it is for you and I and cola.
>
> And I would guess HP is not making money off their Linux
> desktop offerings.
No, HP's selling hardware.
>
>
>
>>>> but the mindset is incredible. If it is MS, it is good.
>>>
>>> Almost universally true.
>>
>> Indeed. Microsoft is good. The trouble is, Linux is better. :-P
>
> Well, Ghost, that depends on who you ask, what their needs are, etc.
I am not sure anyone needs malware. :-) Then again, a good firewall
solution can be had for less than $100 -- Barracuda and Cisco come
to mind.
Given the cost of a good server OS ($800) it's a cheap investment.
>
>
>
>>>> Anything else is a virus.
>>>
>>> That's not true.
>>
>> Yes, that is true. Linux is a virus. It is taking over
>> Microsoft's market, and will ultimately, if not eradicated,
>> result in Microsoft dying a horrible, ugly death, much
>> like Ebola (though not nearly as quickly!).
>>
>> It *must be stopped*. Otherwise, this might happen:
>>
>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/
>>
>> (I'll admit I have no idea why the author decided to use those
>> particular colors.)
>
> Lack of visual style seems endemic to Linux/OSS.
Well, personally, I prefer Gnome to KDE. At least Gnome
doesn't try to out-gaudy the user.
It doesn't try to give one a cute doggie to search with, either. :-P
>
>
>
>
>
>>>> (The
>>>> old admin wouldn't even allow me to put a linux box on the network,
>>>> fearing that it would cause viruses.... Really, I'm not making that
>>>> up.)
>>>
>>> Fear of the unknown.
>>>
>>
>> Fear of the *known*. Linux boxes can damage a Microsoft
>> network by actually responding correctly to queries. :-)
>
> Nice bit of sarcasm -
No, it's true. Put a Linux Kerberos server in a Windows
subnetwork and I suspect one will get disastrous results,
as the clients are expecting a totally different response.
I've not tried it, of course -- our Windows network doesn't
use Kerberos, and I don't know enough about Kerberos anyway,
beyond that it uses authorization tickets somehow.
I don't know the details but in this case it's not Microsoft's
fault; it's a bad specification, AIUI. Unix implemented it
one way, using holes in the datagrams; Microsoft decided to use
the holes differently.
So they don't play very nicely.
>
>
>
>> The only examples I can think of admittedly are Kerberos
>> and Samba. However, Linux implements CIFS/SMB using
>> Samba very well, which damages Microsoft networks because
>> Microsoft can't sell into those networks. For its part
>> Microsoft Kerberos is implemented in a different fashion
>> from traditional Unix kerberos implementations (because of
>> a bad spec) and therefore a Linux Kerberos server would
>> confuse just about everybody.
>>
>> And of course an Apache webserver on a Microsoft network
>> might actually encourage everyone to use a non-IE browser.
>
> They probably should. I use IE as little as possible - only
> when I want to download updates from MS, or view certain
> websites or video online.
Why?
>
> I've switched to Opera for the last month or so. Nice browser.
>
It works, but IE is the standard; you should be using it,
despite the bugs.
>
>
>> (Not that Apache proper cares all that much, but AIUI IIS
>> has some special code that prefers IE.)
>>
>> Oh, the horror. Oh, the calamity. Can't have that upstart
>> Linux damaging Microsoft profits, now, can we?
>
> Not without a long, vicious fight.
>
The war has already started. It probably started in 1995... :-)
GayClod
>
> It is really funny. This is a common problem with Windows morons. They often
> frame any debate in aesthetics and/or speed. Yes, while aesthetics and
> performance are important criteria, any viable solution must also address
> reliability, security, up front and maintenance costs, licensing issues,
> long term vendor viability, and so much more.
What's even funnier is to read a post from a retard, like you, who can't
configure an online forum correctly.
Peter Hayes
> John Bailo wrote:
> > http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?p=2221&tag=nl.e539
> > AMD scores huge 7-round TKO over Intel in dual-core benchmarks Posted
> > by David Berlind @ 6:17 am
> >
> > The news keeps getting worse for Intel when it comes to arch nemesis
> > AMD
>
> The results of Windows vs. Linux would be a similar rout: Windows in a
> clean-sweep.
>
> Day to Day Computing: Windows
> Gaming: Windows
> Multitasking: Windows
> Photo Editing: Windows
> MP3 encoding: Windows
> Video encoding: Windows
> Price vs. performance: Windows
Malware: Windows
--
Peter
William Poaster
weary, came a tapping at my door when Aragorn posted this, & nothing
more...
When SuSE 9.0 came out with the 64bit linux version in Oct 2003, I
updated the mobo & hardware on one machine to run it. I changed my second
machine over from x86-32bit to 64bit hardware about 3/4 months ago, & ATM
I'm using AMD Athlon 64bit 3200+ (2GHz) 754pin on here with an MSI K8N
Neo3 (MS-7135) mobo with "Cool 'n Quiet" technology, & a
Coolermaster KK8-7152A-A1 heatsink.
"AMD Athlon 64 Cool'n'Quiet Driver Version 1.50.03 Linux - AMD Athlon
64 Cool'n'Quiet Driver Version 1.50.03 for Linux 2.6 series kernels.
Provides support for AMD Cool'n'Quiet technology for Linux systems. Adds
support for 2.6.10 and later kernels."
This effectively lowers the power consumption and enables a
quieter-running system while still delivering performance (so they say!).
In AMD's words: " AMD and its partners have worked together to implement
Cool'n'Quiet technology as a system feature that consists of: a processor
with Cool'n'Quiet technology enabled, motherboard, supporting BIOS,
software driver and CPU cooler." A check on it temperature shows it
running at a steady 28C, whereas the maximum critical temp is quoted as
65/70C...so I'm well within limits.
My original AMD-64bit machine (that I had with SuSE 9.0 64bit installed)
is now used as a 'standby' & testbed...though I may (probably will) update
it's hardware at somepoint.
> AMD's are far more power-efficient than Intels and are generally faster at
> the same clock speeds,
Which is one reason that I've always preferred them.
> but the latter applies to single threads. In today's IT landscape,
> multi-threading is a necessity.
>
> AMD's also lack Intel's overheating protection which shuts down the CPU
> to protect it when the core temperature goes up too high. On the other
> hand, AMD's seem more resilient at higher core temperatures, but since
> the protection mechanism is absent, you could end up frying an AMD.
True, but in some BIOS's you can set an alarm to trigger if the temp gets
too high.
> My personal gripe with AMD-based systems lies with the chipsets used.
> AMD-platforms almost always have to make use of third party chipsets such
> as nVidia, ALi/ULi or VIA, and I'm not a fan of either of those.
> Conceptually, the nForce chipset is very promising, but it also seems less
> stable, and in general, that's also what applies to AMD-based computers in
> general - my guess is that this is because of the chipsets used.
Hmm....I've never had any problems with that. The only problem I did have
with any hardware, was with an Acer burner which didn't like the setup,
for some reason. I changed it for an Asus, & no problems since.
> Lastly, Intel has already had the Itanium out for a long time, while AMD
> still focuses on the x86 architecture. The 64-bit extensions to the x86
> platform were first developed _by_ AMD, and Intel has only countered that
> by doing the same thing on the Xeons and Pentium 4's. It's all
> market-driven.
>
> What I would really like to see from AMD _and_ from Intel is the
> commitment to really _new_ 64-bit CPU architectures - e.g. something à la
> UltraSPARC, MIPS, Alpha, PowerPC, et al - that are far more efficient than
> the x86, and to provide reliable chipset solutions for them.
That would be a Good Thing(tm). :-)
> But then again, what either Intel or AMD do is purely market-driven. They
> are each other's sworn enemies and that's what influences their
> decisions to the highest degree.
Yes, I suppose it does.
> In the meantime, truly innovative CPU designs seem to come from other
> sources, such as the IBM/Toshiba cell-CPU, or the newest developments
> regarding multi-threaded and multi-cored CPU's at either Sun or HP - I
> forgot which one actually, but it was posted here (?) earlier this week.
Now you mention it, I do recall reading something like that. A google
search will find it for me. :-)
DFS
Malware: tie. I'm running behind a cheap Linksys router and have never
experienced any malware on my Win 2003 system.
Disappointment: Linux
The Ghost In The Machine
<m...@nospamnoway.zz>
wrote
on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:44:00 -0500
<JsOdnc3rBb2...@comcast.com>:
> DFS wrote:
>
>> CptDondo wrote:
>>> Aragorn wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Day to Day Computing: Windows
>>>>>
>>>>> a wash. Either one works fine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Negative. GNU/Linux works fine, Windows raises the impression that
>>>> it works fine.
>>>
>>> Where I work, was a pure 100% windows world. I am now the sole linux
>>> developer. Guess what? My email never crashes, never gets lost, my
>>> documents always open, and my data stays intact...
>>
>> So do 99.999% of Windows users' emails, docs and data.
>
> This goes counter to my experiences and most reports of Windows "stability,"
> so site a source for this number, or a reason for your estimate of it, or
> I'll just assume you are lying.
99.999% is an old Microsoft ad campaign. Of course, it's probably
referring to something entirely different (which translates to
a downtime of about 5 minutes per year), not the number of
successfully sent viruses. ;-)
>
>>
>>
>>> Anyway, people are coming to me and bitching about their computers.
>>> And I can truly say that I am baffled. My standard answer is "I don't
>>> understand. Why do you put up with that?"
>>
>> Yet you put up with Linux. I'm baffled.
>
> Well, let's see: With Windows I would get viruses and other
> malware and instability, with Linux, I get security and stability.
>
> Window is just not worth the aggravation.
Depends on what one is doing. Linux firewall, Windows clients
in the back-network, carefully controlled, would work to some
extent.
Personally, I'd just as soon use Linux for almost everything. :-)
But that's just me.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Recently, we needed a service ticket tracking system. The win admin
>>> got together a proposal, costing some thousands $, and requiring a new
>>> server. I set up rt in about an hour on my workstation.... Free, and
>>> far better than the expensive MS based system....
>>
>> If rt was 'far better' then that was one crappy MS-based system in the
>> proposal.
>>
>> Take a look at the goofy rt
>> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/screenshots/3.0/searchresults.gif. It
>> looks like the usual half-ass open source solution (the other half-ass
>> being the OS on your computer).
>>
>> There are many great, inexpensive, closed-source, Windows-based (or
>> web-based) trouble-ticket systems out there:
>> http://www.thinkgss.com/html/help.html
>> http://www.cynergysoftware.com/helpdesksoftware.php
>> http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Help_Desk/Browser_Based/
>>
>> The majority are actually far better than rt.
>
> It is really funny. This is a common problem with Windows morons.
> hey often frame any debate in aesthetics and/or speed. Yes, while
> aesthetics and performance are important criteria, any viable
> solution must also address reliability, security, up front and
> maintenance costs, licensing issues, long term vendor viability,
> and so much more.
True, but steering back this towards aesthetics and
speed, one has to ask the obvious question as to why
everyone needs a search doggy, surfer dude, wizard,
dancing secretary, or motorized paper clip in order to
find something (fortunately, one can tell said doggy
to walk away), and as for speed, well, my dualboot here
(Dell GX280 Optiplex 1 GB RAM) works nicely under Linux
but under Windows XP tends to wallow like a stuck pig as
it pages itself to death.
Granted, that's my opinion only. No doubt were I to leave
Windows XP up for more than a few minutes it might actually
cache some pages. But I doubt it would help all that much.
>
> Windows does have better graphical performance,
I wonder about that. It may depend on whether one's
talking about 2D or 3D operations -- and probably
depends heavily on the quality of the graphics driver,
and some optimization of the code in various programs
such as Quake. (Linux variants can't handcraft assembly
without some work, for example. Windows has a clear
advantage here, because the developer knows it's going
to be an x86 platform. Of course, the flip side is that
Linux runs on more machine types, and so can OpenGL
programs.)
> but this is at a cost of stability, and for a workstation,
> i.e. where work is done, it isn't a good trade.
Especially since it's far from clear that one needs
such massive amounts of performance. After all, if one
draws 10 billion lines on a screen, one's probably not
going to see an awful lot beyond a jumble of lines.
The program has to decide which lines are important. :-)
> Windows aesthetics is more or less market hype and really
> hard to quantify and anything other than myth.
Well, the doggy and paper clip are *real* easy to point at. ;-)
>
> This leaves application performance, where Linux will usually win,
> aesthetics which is a matter of taste and, depending on target audience,
> may not be a driving factor, reliability - Linux, security - Linux,
> maintenance - Linux, licensing issues - Linux, and long term vendor
> viability -- If you have the source, you don't have to rely on the vendor.
>
Well, yes and no. The main problem becomes how to build
it properly, which can be an issue for very old source.
Still, it's an improvement over not having any source
at all.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anyway, people are starting to come around,
>>
>> They are? Who? What companies?
>
> My wife's company is switching to Macintosh, in no small way due to
> Microsoft's "Microsecurity"
That's not Linux, though Macs aren't too bad in the security department.
>
>>
>>> but the mindset is incredible. If it is MS, it is good.
>>
>> Almost universally true.
>
> In my experience, mostly false. Microsoft Bob, Microsoft Dogs, Microsoft's
> security problems, microsoft reliability problems.
Microsoft used to be best in the biz -- way back in the
early 1990's, if not the late 1980's. I for one don't
know what happened, and even then there were probably a
few asking questions regarding the future.
Maybe they got spoiled by success.
[rest snipped]
mlw
Ahh, yes, the classic and often used by windows morons, "Ad Hominem"
fallacy. First, I would hardly call not checking one checkbox, "can't
configure." Second, regardless of what you may think of my qualification,
you still haven't addressed the topic at hand. I.e. Linux rules!
Erik Funkenbusch
A few items:
On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 02:04:17 GMT, Aragorn wrote:
> My personal gripe with AMD-based systems lies with the chipsets used.
> AMD-platforms almost always have to make use of third party chipsets
> such as nVidia, ALi/ULi or VIA, and I'm not a fan of either of those.
> Conceptually, the nForce chipset is very promising, but it also seems
> less stable, and in general, that's also what applies to AMD-based
> computers in general - my guess is that this is because of the chipsets
> used.
nForce 4 is *VERY* good. I've got a Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI (though I only
use one video, it just came out before the single video version) nForce4
and it kicks ass. No instability *AT ALL*. Initially there were some
problems with beta drivers, but those have long since gone away.
I love the speed of the SATA II interfaces, and NCQ. PCIe video is fast
and stable. The main reason I chose the Gigabyte is because they're one of
the few who ship with Firewire 800 (most are 400).
I agree completely about the Via and ALI chipsets, though again I believe
most of their problem is crappy drivers. Via has always had problems with
their drivers going back to the early 4-in-1 sets that were real russian
rulette.
GreyCloud
> GreyCloud, <mi...@cumulus.com>, the sloppy, formless rim-jobber, and lady's
> maid, snickered:
>
>
>>Toolman Tim wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>Did I hear 'sombody' ;) mention you wanted my ass, Linønut?
>>>>
>>>>You should keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.
>>>
>>>
>>>Trust you to come sniffing when ass is mentioned, huh?
>>>
>>>You're a fucking cling-on, GayClod... nobody likes you, and nobody
>>>responds to your inane linux posts!
>>>
>>>You are a drain on boredom.
>>>
>>>linux turns you into a useless GayClod.
>>>
>>
>>Poor sore keyster. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
>>He left his tool out and some kid stole it. Keep yammering you big
>>queer.
>
>
> *plonk* goes the GayClod LOL
>
Yet another KKKanadiun typing with his forehead.
Guffaw!!!
Take your meds flathead.
--
Where are we going?
And why am I in this handbasket?
GreyCloud
> GreyCloud mi...@cumulus.com, wrote in message
> 9adnSEyhPD...@bresnan.com:
>
>>Linønut wrote:
>>
>>
>>>After takin' a swig o' grog, GreyCloud belched out this bit o'
>>>wisdom:
>>>
>>>>Toolman Tim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Linønut <"=?iso-8859-1?Q?lin=F8nut?="@bone.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>Did I hear 'sombody' ;) mention you wanted my ass, Linønut?
>>>>
>>>>You should keep your homosexual fantasies to yourself.
>>>
>>>
>>>This Toolman faker is a childish prat.
>>>
>>
>>Of course he is. One of the greased monkeys at M$, obviously.
>
>
> No, he does not work for us. You have my assurances.
>
Of course they do. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in here spreading FUD.
Gates is very worried that his Vista Lipstick© isn't going to work this
time.
GreyCloud
Yet another well greased Maggot$oft monkey.
Balmer greased your arse well didn't he.