M$'s Last Refuge: Eye Candy
Quizzical
Wed May 5
Richard Fisco - PC Magazine
The first day of WinHEC 2004 (the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference)
in Seattle had, as expected, a major track on Longhorn. It focused on the
new user interface and what Microsoft is planning for its next-generation
operating system. A big part of it could be summed up in a word: 3D.
3D graphics on a PC have long been stuck with a "for games only" reputation.
Of course, you could rightfully argue that 3D performance has been the
driving force behind most recent PC performance increases; usually, the
"application" that needed all the horsepower your PC could muster wasn't an
application at all, but a high-powered 3D game. But now the shroud of
illegitimacy is about to be lifted, as Microsoft prepares to rely on 3D
performance to power its Longhorn operating system.
Avalon is the code name for the Longhorn graphics and media interface (GUI)
that software developers will use to build applications. It will have two
"tiers," called Aero and Aero Glass. Given its 3D nature, running Avalon
will require some pretty hefty hardware. Microsoft also surprised some
people by requiring DirectX 9 to run Avalon, even though chips supporting
this latest version of DirectX are just coming to market. Still, with
Longhorn not arriving until 2007 (at the earliest), perhaps the DX9
requirement isn't such a reach.
Demonstrations of the new GUI showed it to be much more animated than
Windows XP (news - web sites). 3D effects, animations of icons, and test
boxes that can vary from transparent to opaque will all make for a livelier
user interface. Aero and Aero Glass will offer different user experiences,
depending on what hardware they detect.
Aero is the base set of requirements for Avalon, and will require DirectX 9
(with Pixel Shader 2.0 support), 32MB VRAM minimum, and AGP 4X for a GPU or
UMA. If a system does not reach this minimum, it will not get the "Designed
for Windows" logo. Aero Glass will offer a richer experience. It will
require DirectX 9 (with Pixel Shader 2.0 support), 64MB VRAM minimum (128MB
recommended), and AGP 4X for a GPU. Microsoft is still deciding whether to
allow a dual-channel UMA implementation to qualify for the logo. The company
will offer a "classic" level, though technically not an Avalon tier, for
systems that don't meet minimum requirements. This will allow Longhorn to
run on less powerful PCs, but with an interface more akin to the Windows
2000 (news - web sites) look and feel.
Microsoft's demonstrations were interesting and somehow familiar. After
looking at some images and icons that grew bigger or flipped when chosen, I
couldn't help but think of the dock on Apple's OS X. There's more to
Longhorn, of course, than just that dock. Microsoft is looking to have
applications add useful, related information in bars alongside open
documents, like upcoming appointments and related cases if you're in a law
program, or favorite-show information if you're in a TV search tool.
Overall, though, Longhorn still had an Apple look to it. I suppose imitation
is a form of flattery, after all. It'll be years before Longhorn launches,
but it should be fun to watch it develop. Microsoft is giving out early
copies of it at the end of WinHEC, so there'll be lots more written about it
in the coming weeks.
Canneloni
> The first day of WinHEC 2004 (the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference)
> in Seattle had, as expected, a major track on Longhorn. It focused on the
> new user interface and what Microsoft is planning for its next-generation
> operating system. A big part of it could be summed up in a word: 3D.
Sun.
Looking Glass.
Copy cats.
http://wwws.sun.com/software/looking_glass/demo.html
Sun has been working on 3D for many years now.
--
W '04 <:> Open
Quizzical
news:0vjmc.8952$V97....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I watched that RealPlayer movie at the Sun site. My honest opinon: I'd /pay/
you not to have 3D on my desktop.
Talk about a profligate waste of hardware resources!
chrisv
> Microsoft also surprised some
>people by requiring DirectX 9 to run Avalon, even though chips supporting
>this latest version of DirectX are just coming to market.
They've been available for like a year and a half. They're still not
quite "mainstream" yet, though - the majority of machines use the
crappy built-in graphics (as opposed to an add-on card) and do not
support DX9.
Rob van Riel
annoying to me. I honestly don't want, let alone need, any of that
stuff.
Rob
Quizzical
Exactly. If this is the much-vaunted future of microcomputing, count me
*out*.
The Lurking Horror
BTW: Looking Glass? That's a copy of Microsoft's Chrome, c. 1997/98.
--
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.
GreyCloud
Canneloni wrote:
Now we see that M$ reason for making an alliance with Sun...
M$ is going to steal as much software from Sun as possible.
Eventually, we'll see McNeally with a knife sticking out of his back
with sweaty balmers fingerprints on the knife.
The Lurking Horror
Microsoft's Chrome predates Sun's efforts in this space by at least 5
years.
Canneloni
Chrome? That was a copy of an idea from the movie Tron (1982) !
--
W '04 <:> Open
GreyCloud
The Lurking Horror wrote:
But what are the differences between Suns Looking Glass and M$ Chrome?
Usually, Sun does it better... or used to. Hard to say why Sun and M$
really formed this odd alliance.
Now if they really wanted 3D they should resurrect Texas Instruments old
3D projection system that was developed in the late 80s.
The Ghost In The Machine
<jy...@hjv.com>
wrote
on Thu, 06 May 2004 14:43:11 GMT
<3asmc.60841$Gg....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>:
I'll admit to some curiosity here as to why people think the following
are good.
[1] Scrollable forms.
[2] Backflipped 3-D pages.
[3] "Progressive disclosure".
[4] Icons.
One could make a case for [3] in that the hidden items are
irrelevant to the switchsettings in the visible part of
the form (e.g., there's litte point to keying in a proxy
username and password if no proxy is specified) -- but
they're still hidden. [4] is a bit like abbreviations;
TLAs are now legion in the English language, courtesy
of such as NASA, the NSA, the CIA, the FBI, and the
technology subsector, which gives us things like RAM, ROM,
CD, IRQ, DMA, PCI, and ISA. (Both X and Windows support
directly drawing into icons -- although I'm not sure
anyone bothers; most apps put up static pictures, which
apart from identifying that this window belongs to that app
and maybe the file opened thereby (with accompaying text)
tells the user little -- but then icons are little.)
To handle all this properly might require some sort of
notion of "attention span" or "current point of focus"
(not to be confused with window focus). Eye-mounted
laser beams (that track the position of the eyeball)
were once mentioned at one point, for example, but they
fall short. Spaceballs (a 3-d positioning device, that is,
not the movie) might be used in specialized applications.
The notion of controlling a computer with one's brain is
bandied about in sci-fi circles but the current state of
research might be able to toggle the on-off switch, but
that's about it. A logical implementation would be to cut
out the back of the user's skull and poke wires thereinto
(which AIUI is where the visual cortex is located) -- but
that leads to a large number of highly technical problems,
not to mention ethical qualms.
I'll admit I have no idea at this point how to properly
structure this sort of information explosion. It wasn't
that long ago that 640x480x16 was the standard display size
-- and it wasn't all that long before that that one might
have 640 x 200 x 2 as a "hires" mode or even the incredibly
blocky 80 x 48 x 16 pseudocolor mode of the Apple ][.
(Or was it 40 x 48? I can't remember now, though I could
look at an emulator's source code in a pinch.)
And now cards can do 2048x2048x16M (+ alpha) without breathing
all that hard. I don't see much point in using such a whopping
large amount of pixel space for drawing cute little doggies or
paper clips. (Light bulbs, maybe -- but I'm hoping that OpenOffice
"helper" is changeable.)
But time was when a file explorer displayed a tree, with
hideable branches. Nowadays, the Windows system simply
displays each directory as a window, with no tree (unless
one uses File Explorer, which is apparently a bit of a
"throwback"). If one sees a window, does one know where
one is in the file hierarchy? At least with File Explorer
the tree gives one a little context. With the current
version one has to pull down a little menu explicitly.
(The title bar only gives the name of the directory,
not the path.)
Will it get any easier? Good question. I would not consider
the current state of affairs intuitive yet.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
It's still legal to go .sigless.
Bob Hauck
[new "longhorn" gui]
> A big part of it could be summed up in a word: 3D.
I foresee a big increase in downloads of Cygwin. The command line will
be cool again <g>.
I think what we're seeing here is that they are running out of new
features to sell. Things are stagnating a bit on the innovation front
so the marketing department is asking for more glitz. We're entering
the tail fins and chrome era of PC's.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
John
And by the time Longhorn comes out, I'm certain Sun will have Project
Looking Glass out in the market. Typical MS, too little, too late, too
expensive, too hyped.
John
And where is Chrome today? At least Sun has a working demo that they showed
off once. It's only a matter of time before the beta becomes widely
available and a production version is out there. My best guess is that it
will be well ahead of Longhorn.
Ruel Smith
> Longhorn Tastes the Apple
> Wed May 5
> Richard Fisco - PC Magazine
>
> The first day of WinHEC 2004 (the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference)
> in Seattle had, as expected, a major track on Longhorn. It focused on the
> new user interface and what Microsoft is planning for its next-generation
> operating system. A big part of it could be summed up in a word: 3D.
>
> 3D graphics on a PC have long been stuck with a "for games only" reputation.
> Of course, you could rightfully argue that 3D performance has been the
> driving force behind most recent PC performance increases; usually, the
> "application" that needed all the horsepower your PC could muster wasn't an
> application at all, but a high-powered 3D game. But now the shroud of
> illegitimacy is about to be lifted, as Microsoft prepares to rely on 3D
> performance to power its Longhorn operating system.
Let's just slow computers down to an absolute crawl... Come on... KDE
has usable eye candy and looks far better than Windows ever did, anyway.
And it'll be pushed back, once again, until sometime in late 2009...11
releases of SuSE Linux from now!
The Lurking Horror
> But time was when a file explorer displayed a tree, with
> hideable branches. Nowadays, the Windows system simply
> displays each directory as a window, with no tree (unless
> one uses File Explorer, which is apparently a bit of a
> "throwback"). If one sees a window, does one know where
> one is in the file hierarchy? At least with File Explorer
> the tree gives one a little context. With the current
> version one has to pull down a little menu explicitly.
> (The title bar only gives the name of the directory,
> not the path.)
Click the "Folders" button on the toolbar.
Well done. You have now learned how to display the tree with hideable
branches in the File Explorer.
The Lurking Horror
> The Lurking Horror wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 06 May 2004 10:01:34 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Canneloni wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Quizzical wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The first day of WinHEC 2004 (the Windows Hardware Engineering Conference)
>>>>>in Seattle had, as expected, a major track on Longhorn. It focused on the
>>>>>new user interface and what Microsoft is planning for its next-generation
>>>>>operating system. A big part of it could be summed up in a word: 3D.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sun.
>>>>Looking Glass.
>>>>Copy cats.
>>>>
>>>>http://wwws.sun.com/software/looking_glass/demo.html
>>>>
>>>>Sun has been working on 3D for many years now.
>>>
>>>
>>>Now we see that M$ reason for making an alliance with Sun...
>>>M$ is going to steal as much software from Sun as possible.
>>>Eventually, we'll see McNeally with a knife sticking out of his back
>>>with sweaty balmers fingerprints on the knife.
>>
>>
>> Microsoft's Chrome predates Sun's efforts in this space by at least 5
>> years.
>
> But what are the differences between Suns Looking Glass and M$ Chrome?
> Usually, Sun does it better... or used to. Hard to say why Sun and M$
> really formed this odd alliance.
Sun might have the market cornered on massively-scaling workhorse servers,
but they have never, ever, ever been any good at UI design. Ever.
The Lurking Horror
> The Lurking Horror wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 06 May 2004 10:01:34 -0600, GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> Canneloni wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quizzical wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The first day of WinHEC 2004 (the Windows Hardware Engineering
>>>>>Conference) in Seattle had, as expected, a major track on Longhorn. It
>>>>>focused on the new user interface and what Microsoft is planning for its
>>>>>next-generation operating system. A big part of it could be summed up in
>>>>>a word: 3D.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sun.
>>>> Looking Glass.
>>>> Copy cats.
>>>>
>>>> http://wwws.sun.com/software/looking_glass/demo.html
>>>>
>>>> Sun has been working on 3D for many years now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Now we see that M$ reason for making an alliance with Sun...
>>> M$ is going to steal as much software from Sun as possible.
>>> Eventually, we'll see McNeally with a knife sticking out of his back
>>> with sweaty balmers fingerprints on the knife.
>>
>> Microsoft's Chrome predates Sun's efforts in this space by at least 5
>> years.
>
> And where is Chrome today?
It got canned. It was too far ahead of its time. Some of it lives on in the
DirectTransform stuff in IE though.
> At least Sun has a working demo that they showed
> off once.
Microsoft had a working demo that they showed off several times. I remember
seeing screenshots.
> It's only a matter of time before the beta becomes widely
> available and a production version is out there. My best guess is that it
> will be well ahead of Longhorn.
Maybe. I've always wondered personally exactly how useful a 3D desktop
would be without a 3D display or a 3D input device.
The Ruling Class
> Maybe. I've always wondered personally exactly how useful a 3D desktop
> would be without a 3D display or a 3D input device.
Well, now you see where stupidity kicks in and common sense is left behind.
I mean, why not a 3-D book?
The implication here is that 3-D is better than 2-D because 2 is more than
3. Other than that, I don't see any rationality to their thinking.
The whole point of a G-U-INTERFACE is that it's an ABSTRACTION. It's
representative of something. So, therefore, taking the abstraction and
then turning it back into the *real* thing seems stupid to me...
--
W '04 <:> Open
Sinister Midget
> Now we see that M$ reason for making an alliance with Sun...
> M$ is going to steal as much software from Sun as possible.
> Eventually, we'll see McNeally with a knife sticking out of his back
> with sweaty balmers fingerprints on the knife.
The knife is already there. The body is still flopping around, though,
because the brain doesn't know it's dead.
--
Whip me. Beat me. Windows ME(tm).
The Ghost In The Machine
<notarealem...@spamtrap.com>
wrote
on Fri, 07 May 2004 05:34:02 GMT
<1p73oud8j31u8.1...@40tude.net>:
There's hope for Windows yet. I'm assuming this can also be set as
a default.
Now if they could only do something about those .SCR nudes of
Jennifer Lopez -- or was it Anna Kournikova? :-)
GreyCloud
The Lurking Horror wrote:
UI design... you have a good point there. I was thinking more along the
lines of security and gui front end admin apps. After taking a look at
Looking Glass, I don't see this as a big deal or an improvement.
Sharp text displays and well formed fonts are more my bag along with
well laid out easy to use menus. This OS X is about as good as it gets.
But it still is a shift to get used to after using windows and CDE.
GreyCloud
Sinister Midget wrote:
Over in comp.os.vms there are articles reading that Sparc is about dead.
Fujitsu is the fabricator of sparc chips and is thinking about
dropping the sparc in favor of the Itanium like types. Actually, I
think there is nothing wrong with the sparc chips. Better than that dog
Itanium. Most of the vms users that have used the new Itanium say it is
dog slow in a networked environment.
GreyCloud
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, The Lurking Horror
> <notarealem...@spamtrap.com>
> wrote
> on Fri, 07 May 2004 05:34:02 GMT
> <1p73oud8j31u8.1...@40tude.net>:
>
>>On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:00:22 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>
>>>But time was when a file explorer displayed a tree, with
>>>hideable branches. Nowadays, the Windows system simply
>>>displays each directory as a window, with no tree (unless
>>>one uses File Explorer, which is apparently a bit of a
>>>"throwback"). If one sees a window, does one know where
>>>one is in the file hierarchy? At least with File Explorer
>>>the tree gives one a little context. With the current
>>>version one has to pull down a little menu explicitly.
>>>(The title bar only gives the name of the directory,
>>>not the path.)
>>
>>Click the "Folders" button on the toolbar.
>>
>>Well done. You have now learned how to display the tree with hideable
>>branches in the File Explorer.
>
>
> There's hope for Windows yet. I'm assuming this can also be set as
> a default.
>
> Now if they could only do something about those .SCR nudes of
> Jennifer Lopez -- or was it Anna Kournikova? :-)
>
You mean those viruses?? :-))
The Lurking Horror
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, The Lurking Horror
> <notarealem...@spamtrap.com>
> wrote
> on Fri, 07 May 2004 05:34:02 GMT
> <1p73oud8j31u8.1...@40tude.net>:
>> On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:00:22 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>> But time was when a file explorer displayed a tree, with
>>> hideable branches. Nowadays, the Windows system simply
>>> displays each directory as a window, with no tree (unless
>>> one uses File Explorer, which is apparently a bit of a
>>> "throwback"). If one sees a window, does one know where
>>> one is in the file hierarchy? At least with File Explorer
>>> the tree gives one a little context. With the current
>>> version one has to pull down a little menu explicitly.
>>> (The title bar only gives the name of the directory,
>>> not the path.)
>>
>> Click the "Folders" button on the toolbar.
>>
>> Well done. You have now learned how to display the tree with hideable
>> branches in the File Explorer.
>
> There's hope for Windows yet. I'm assuming this can also be set as
> a default.
You mean there's hope for *you* yet. It has been working fine for a long
time. It's you who seems to be the one with the problem.
BTW: You do know what you get if you type "Windows+R" followed by
"explorer" followed by Enter, don't you?
Sinister Midget
> Over in comp.os.vms there are articles reading that Sparc is about dead.
> Fujitsu is the fabricator of sparc chips and is thinking about
> dropping the sparc in favor of the Itanium like types. Actually, I
> think there is nothing wrong with the sparc chips. Better than that dog
> Itanium. Most of the vms users that have used the new Itanium say it is
> dog slow in a networked environment.
Sounds like another Intel chip that's earned the Designed(tm) for(tm)
MICROS~1(tm) Windoze(tm) label.
--
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like
the Windows people."
GreyCloud
Sinister Midget wrote:
> On 2004-05-08, GreyCloud <mi...@cumulus.com> blubbered:
>
>
>>Over in comp.os.vms there are articles reading that Sparc is about dead.
>> Fujitsu is the fabricator of sparc chips and is thinking about
>>dropping the sparc in favor of the Itanium like types. Actually, I
>>think there is nothing wrong with the sparc chips. Better than that dog
>>Itanium. Most of the vms users that have used the new Itanium say it is
>>dog slow in a networked environment.
>
>
> Sounds like another Intel chip that's earned the Designed(tm) for(tm)
> MICROS~1(tm) Windoze(tm) label.
>
It appears to be true. Already Sun is gearing up to the amd64 line.
And now that M$ has them by the short hairs it won't be long until Sun
is dead.
GreyCloud
The Lurking Horror wrote:
Nope.
What do you get??
The Lurking Horror
The same thing he was asking for and claiming that it isn't in there.
You also get it if you hit Windows+E.
FileExplorer indeed... That's a sure sign of someone who hasn't actually
learned anything since the Windows 3.1 days.
GreyCloud
The Lurking Horror wrote:
I was too busy with OpenVMS... didn't have time for windows. Then try
getting anything at all from books about windows programming is too time
consuming and riddled with small errors.
The Lurking Horror
No, you're fine - it was The Ghost I was talking about :)
GreyCloud
The Lurking Horror wrote:
That's what happens tho when you retire... once you leave the loop,
things keep on moving.
The Ghost In The Machine
<mi...@cumulus.com>
wrote
on Sat, 08 May 2004 21:45:52 -0600
<BMudnUHA_tS...@bresnan.com>:
Maybe so, but I'm not retired yet. Besides, that's why I'm learning
Linux. :-) (Of course I had a bit of a head start, since I used
Unix in college.)
As for Windows+R+Explorer: I don't get much on my Linux box. :-)
Albert van der Horst
Quizzical <jy...@hjv.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
>Overall, though, Longhorn still had an Apple look to it. I suppose imitation
>is a form of flattery, after all. It'll be years before Longhorn launches,
>but it should be fun to watch it develop. Microsoft is giving out early
>copies of it at the end of WinHEC, so there'll be lots more written about it
>in the coming weeks.
What interests me, have they finally fixed the bug in Freecell?
I mean sometimes you are stuck, where you still can put a red 4 on
a black 5 and back again, but Freecell doesn't notice that.
This nags me since Windows 3.11.
Groetjes Albert
--
--
Albert van der Horst,Oranjestr 8,3511 RA UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
One man-hour to invent,
One man-week to implement,
One lawyer-year to patent.