[News] Microsoft role complicates '$100 laptop'
The Ghost In The Machine
CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - One of the most ambitious aspects of the "$100
laptop" project for schoolchildren in developing countries is the
machines' open-source software platform, designed to be intuitive
for kids.
ADVERTISEMENT
That's why many people were taken aback last week when the founder
of the nonprofit laptop project, Nicholas Negroponte, announced that
buyers of the machine will be able to add Windows, the ultimate in
proprietary software.
Stay tuned.
--
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Windows. The choice of a bunch of people who like very weird behavior on
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John Locke
<ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070504/ap_on_hi_te/hundred_dollar_laptop;_ylt=Ah3BF4W98wgDiNre4eh9LZzMWM0F
>
> CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - One of the most ambitious aspects of the "$100
> laptop" project for schoolchildren in developing countries is the
> machines' open-source software platform, designed to be intuitive
> for kids.
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> That's why many people were taken aback last week when the founder
> of the nonprofit laptop project, Nicholas Negroponte, announced that
> buyers of the machine will be able to add Windows, the ultimate in
> proprietary software.
>
>Stay tuned.
"Complicating the mix is an emerging little computer for the
developing world from Intel Corp. — the Classmate PC, which can run
Windows or Linux. Intel expects its price to fall below $250 by the
middle of the year and just signed a deal to sell 700,000 Classmates
in Pakistan — one of the countries that One Laptop Per Child hopes to
reach."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what Microsoft does best...make the simple a complicated mess.
Why can't they do the right thing and go away and let the kids enjoy
a simple, usefull, reliable operating environment. This is where Linux
really shines.
The Ghost In The Machine
<johnloc...@comcast.net>
wrote
on Fri, 04 May 2007 17:43:16 -0700
<sakn33l8tfndmioio...@4ax.com>:
Specs look about the same as OLPC. 256 MB RAM, 1 or 2 GB
NAND Flash, Intel Mobile Processor ULV 900 MHz.
Can run XP, Mandriva Discovery, or Metasys Classmate.
XP+MSOffice requires 2G Flash variant. The other two
can get by on the 1G Flash.
http://www.classmatepc.com/classmate-pc-system-configuration.html
http://www.classmatepc.com/classmatepc-system-hardware.html
http://www.classmatepc.com/classmatepc-system-software.html
(What? No Vista Starter Edition? However will they
compete if they don't offer the Most Modern Operating
System In The World(tm)?
Very easily, methinks.)
Competition already. ;-)
Linonut
> This is what Microsoft does best...make the simple a complicated mess.
>
> Why can't they do the right thing and go away and let the kids enjoy
> a simple, usefull, reliable operating environment. This is where Linux
> really shines.
If they don't do something, they lose face. Maybe they lose market
share later, too.
--
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
Roy Schestowitz
>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070504/ap_on_hi_te/hundred_dollar_laptop;_ylt=Ah3BF4W98wgDiNre4eh9LZzMWM0F
>
> CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - One of the most ambitious aspects of the "$100
> laptop" project for schoolchildren in developing countries is the
> machines' open-source software platform, designed to be intuitive
> for kids.
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> That's why many people were taken aback last week when the founder
> of the nonprofit laptop project, Nicholas Negroponte, announced that
> buyers of the machine will be able to add Windows, the ultimate in
> proprietary software.
>
> Stay tuned.
I think that the writer of the article is unaware of the latest information.
OLPC project clarifies: no plans for Windows support
,----[ Quote
| According to Walter Bender, president of Software and Content at OLPC,
| there is no agreement in place between OLPC and Microsoft to offer XO
| laptops with any version of Windows. Bender also indicated that
| Microsoft has not contacted OLPC regarding its $3 software bundling
| program, nor have any governments requested that the XO be outfitted
| with Windows. In short, there is no existing collaboration between
| Microsoft and OLPC aimed at outfitting the XO laptop with Windows.
`----
One Laptop Per Child clarity
,----[ Qote ]
| The bulk of the confusion and conspiracy theorising which accompanied
| the recent announcement seems to centre on this point.
|
| The specs were not boosted to accommodate windows...
`----
http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?src=rss&id=1481
OLPC Linux laptop could succeed in U.S.
^^^^^ ^^^^
,----[ Quote ]
| The laptop features a string pulley to charge its battery, a keyboard
| that switches between languages, a digital video camera, wireless
| connectivity, and an open-source Linux operating system tailored for
| remote regions.
`----
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4220342075.html
OLPC: Free Software Still Rules
,----[ Quote ]
| Jepsen tells us, politely, to calm down. The plan is still for the
| XO to ship with OLPC's custom Linux-based Sugar operating system,
| and she hasn't seen demand for anything else on the XO. "The issuehasn't
| presented itself. Most people love Sugar."
`----
http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/04/olpc_free_softw.html
--
~~ Best regards
Roy S. Schestowitz | GPL'd Reversi: http://othellomaster.com
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
3:20am up 6 days 11:42, 5 users, load average: 0.83, 1.02, 0.94
http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project
Rex Ballard
> On Fri, 4 May 2007 14:06:35 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine
>
> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070504/ap_on_hi_te/hundred_dollar_laptop...
>
> > CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - One of the most ambitious aspects of the "$100
> > laptop" project for schoolchildren in developing countries is the
> > machines' open-source software platform, designed to be intuitive
> > for kids.
> > ADVERTISEMENT
>
> > That's why many people were taken aback last week when the founder
> > of the nonprofit laptop project, Nicholas Negroponte, announced that
> > buyers of the machine will be able to add Windows, the ultimate in
> > proprietary software.
You don't honestly think that Microsoft would let as many as 70
million OLPC machines
be sold without at least making sure they could drop the Windows
bomb. The almost HAD
to drop their turd in the punch bowl. Of course, they'll try and tell
everybody that it's chocolate
Ice cream, and see how many of the little kiddies try to get a taste.
The irony is that any version of Windows that would run comfortably in
256meg of RAM and
a 1 gig hard drive (flash or other), would also make a nice VM Client.
My guess is that very few people will be extra cash for Windows on
OLPC, but it's also quite likely that Microsoft is still looking for
ways to strong-arm their way into forcing the manufacturers into
preinstalling it, in every OLPC they make.
Of course, that would mean that the Linux OLPC, designed to be sold
for $100 each would be competing with the Windows OLPC, which would
have to be sold for $250 each. The problem for Microsoft, is that for
$300, Used corporate laptops being cycled out due to Vista or Linux
with VM-Windows, replacements, can be configured with Linux (the
corporate Windows licenses wouldn't be transferrable), and sent to
these 3rd world countries. In addition, recycled desktop machines
would also be available.
These recycle Linux machines have been very popular in Eastern Europe,
South America, southern and central India, Africa, and rural China.
Microsoft has been trying to establish beach-heads in these regions,
especially as those recipients of Linux machines as much as 10 years
ago, have now become the advisors and enterpreneurs who are guiding
policy.
> >Stay tuned.
>
> "Complicating the mix is an emerging little computer for the
> developing world from Intel Corp. - the Classmate PC, which can run
> Windows or Linux. Intel expects its price to fall below $250 by the
> middle of the year and just signed a deal to sell 700,000 Classmates
> in Pakistan - one of the countries that One Laptop Per Child hopes to
> reach."
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is what Microsoft does best...make the simple a complicated mess.
Nothing personal, it's just business. The irony is that OLPC runs
completely
counter to Microsoft's entire business and technology model. Since
1987,
Microsoft has taken the attitude "CPU cycles are cheap, memory is
cheap,
and disk is cheap, we'll use as much as we can and by the time we
release,
we will drive customers to purchase brand new PCs".
OLPC is a big challenge for Microsoft. The PCs are small and light,
with very low
power consumption. They are slower, and have very small Flash
"drives". This
pretty much rules out traditional Vista, XP, and even Windows 2000
implementations,
all of which typically need 4 gig of storage. Windows 2000 could run
comfortably in
256 meg of RAM, but XP would be a very tight fit. Remember, since the
disks are FLASH,
you can't easily use swap space on the main drive.
> Why can't they do the right thing and go away and let the kids enjoy
> a simple, usefull, reliable operating environment. This is where Linux
> really shines.
Keep in mind that Microsoft makes Teletubbies. They want the kids as
young as they can get them, and make Microsoft seem as natural as
mother's milk. They knowingly commit criminal acts, and make
restitution by offering coupons for new purchases of Microsoft
products to schools and school age students. Their plan is to create
addicts when they are 12 so that by the time they graduate from
college, they won't consider anything other than Windows and MS-Office
for their desktop or laptop.
Ironically, Microsoft has also created many young Linux users.
Windows 95 led to millions of PCs that were "obsolete" but still fully
functional. Millions of them were converted to Linux, often by young
kids in the 12-16 year old range. Many corporations simply put the
PCs on the alleys, they even put signs out, telling people to take one
home. Other companies donate the machines to charities, who then gave
them to needy kids and low-income families. To make them internet
capable, the kids installed Linux and turned them into self-contained
"Internet Workstations".
Microsoft is still paying the price for that little blunder. Those
kids grew up, and many of them, perhaps as many as a few million,
became active contributors to the Open Source movement.
Tim Smith
> "Complicating the mix is an emerging little computer for the
> developing world from Intel Corp. — the Classmate PC, which can run
> Windows or Linux. Intel expects its price to fall below $250 by the
> middle of the year and just signed a deal to sell 700,000 Classmates
> in Pakistan — one of the countries that One Laptop Per Child hopes to
> reach."
> Why can't they do the right thing and go away and let the kids enjoy
> a simple, usefull, reliable operating environment. This is where Linux
> really shines.
Have you compared the software on the two machines, and evaluated how
that fits in with the way classrooms are run in those countries, and the
problems the teachers have there?
If not, how do you know what the right thing is?
--
--Tim Smith
John Bailo
> That's why many people were taken aback last week when the founder
> of the nonprofit laptop project, Nicholas Negroponte, announced that
> buyers of the machine will be able to add Windows, the ultimate in
> proprietary software.
>
> Stay tuned.
E Negropunte got his ass handed to him for such statements.
Nobody at MIT would support a Windos laptop...nobody...
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Hadron Quark
Because its about "choice". Remember?
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-- Christa Keil
AB
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070504/ap_on_hi_te/hundred_dollar_laptop;_ylt=Ah3BF4W98wgDiNre4eh9LZzMWM0F
>
> CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - One of the most ambitious aspects of the "$100
> laptop" project for schoolchildren in developing countries is the
> machines' open-source software platform, designed to be intuitive
> for kids.
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
> That's why many people were taken aback last week when the founder
> of the nonprofit laptop project, Nicholas Negroponte, announced that
> buyers of the machine will be able to add Windows, the ultimate in
> proprietary software.
>
> Stay tuned.
You can add a turd to your filet mignon, too. That doesn't mean it
comes with one, or that most people would want it.
--
"[Microsoft's] products just aren't engineered for security."
-- Brian Valentine
Senior Vice President, Windows Development
Microsoft Corporation
Hadron Quark
> On 2007-05-04, The Ghost In The Machine <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> claimed:
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070504/ap_on_hi_te/hundred_dollar_laptop;_ylt=Ah3BF4W98wgDiNre4eh9LZzMWM0F
>>
>> CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - One of the most ambitious aspects of the "$100
>> laptop" project for schoolchildren in developing countries is the
>> machines' open-source software platform, designed to be intuitive
>> for kids.
>> ADVERTISEMENT
>>
>> That's why many people were taken aback last week when the founder
>> of the nonprofit laptop project, Nicholas Negroponte, announced that
>> buyers of the machine will be able to add Windows, the ultimate in
>> proprietary software.
>>
>> Stay tuned.
>
> You can add a turd to your filet mignon, too. That doesn't mean it
> comes with one, or that most people would want it.
Another crap analogy which just doesn't work.
Yes, YOU could add a turd to your steak, but you're not likely too and
its almost certainly not on the menu. Things that people want are on the
menu and it appears some people want Windows. Strange that eh?
--
Limitations on coverage and remedies apply.
tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com
>
> Another crap analogy which just doesn't work.
>
> Yes, YOU could add a turd to your steak, but you're not likely too and
> its almost certainly not on the menu. Things that people want are on the
> menu and it appears some people want Windows. Strange that eh?
As I understand it, it was Microsoft that asked for reference systems
to play with; the MIT folks were not the moving force behind it. I
imagine Microsoft is a bit worried at the thought of millions of Linux
only computers seeding the developing markets and spreading that open
source cancer. >:)
Thad
AB
Funny that I haven't heard any outrage that Windwoes wasn't going to
work on the OLPC from the masses of Winders users. (Similar to not
hearing any outrage that a booger isn't included on every hamburger.)
Perhaps Rhonda Quook has a cacophony of voices in his head screaming to
get it included. But I haven't seen anything on it.
Even the news that Pakistan is selling their soul for an old fashioned
MS screwing isn't quite the same thing. They weren't screaming *for*
Windoze. They bought into it when offered. But they *will* be screaming
once they get their "deal" from MS and find out it's less than
worthless.
--
"Windows Vista performance", on the next "In Search Of".
DFS
> Even the news that Pakistan is selling their soul for an old fashioned
> MS screwing isn't quite the same thing. They weren't screaming *for*
> Windoze. They bought into it when offered.
That's usually what happens when MS makes software.
> But they *will* be screaming once they get their "deal"
> from MS and find out it's less than worthless.
I'll alert the media: the most petty cola "advocate" (the one that insulted
the Gates Foundation for spending $billions on 3rd world and health care
issues) has made another idiotic statement.
Rex Ballard
>
> Because its about "choice". Remember?
Yes,
And perhaps when Microsoft storts letting OEMs offer a true CHOICE of
Winodws, Linux, or Both on all PCs,
maybe I'll be a a bit less critical of Microsoft's involevment in
OLPC.
Historically, Microsoft has publicly stated their goal of completely
dominating the market, eliminating all other choices, making Microsoft
the only choice. Microsoft likes competition, when they are trying to
take over new markets, but once they control the market, they use
licenses, trademarks, and non-disclosure agreements, along with heavy
manipulation through carefully placed (and withdrawn) advertizing, to
make it virtually impossible for millions of people to make an
informed choice.
Fortunately, there are information channels that Microsoft cannot
control or silence, and there are distribution channels Microsoft
cannot close. The result is that projectts like FireFox, OpenOffice,
and Linux are thriving and growing at double digit growth rates, even
in the face of Microsoft's staunch opposition.
When people can walk into any retail store that sells PCs and compare
a machine running Windows, to a Mac and a machine running Linux, at
that point, you can talk about CHOICE. Until then, don't try and tell
me that Microsoft is "All about Choice". It's an insult to every
member and contributor to the OLPC project.
Kier
> When people can walk into any retail store that sells PCs and compare
> a machine running Windows, to a Mac and a machine running Linux, at
> that point, you can talk about CHOICE. Until then, don't try and tell
> me that Microsoft is "All about Choice". It's an insult to every
> member and contributor to the OLPC project.
Sometimes you're out to lunch, Rex. But in this instance, you're right.
Well said.
--
Kier
DFS
> And perhaps when Microsoft storts letting
> OEMs offer a true CHOICE of
> Winodws, Linux, or Both on all PCs,
> maybe I'll be a a bit less critical of
> Microsoft's involevment in OLPC.
Perhaps when you have a shred of proof they block OEMs from doing anything,
I'll be less critical of your fantasy-land statements. Fact is, for years
the OEMs have been able to sell what they want: HP and Dell - the two
biggest PC vendors - have been selling Linux systems for a long time. You
know this, so your claim above is another in a never-ending stream of lies
and FUD.
> Historically, Microsoft has publicly stated their goal of completely
> dominating the market, eliminating all other choices, making Microsoft
> the only choice. Microsoft likes competition, when they are trying to
> take over new markets, but once they control the market, they use
> licenses, trademarks, and non-disclosure agreements, along with heavy
> manipulation through carefully placed (and withdrawn) advertizing, to
> make it virtually impossible for millions of people to make an
> informed choice.
But in the next breath you claim more Linux distros were installed last year
than Windows?
You're so full of shit, Rex. An 8-year old storyteller trapped in a 50-year
old body.
> When people can walk into any retail store that sells PCs and compare
> a machine running Windows, to a Mac and a machine running Linux, at
> that point, you can talk about CHOICE.
The Duluth GA Microcenter is open Mon - Sat 10 to 9, and Sun 11 to 6
Drop in anytime and try out Windows, Macs and Linux (last I checked they
were Linspire) systems.
They have a North Jersey location, too
http://www.microcenter.com/at_the_stores/north_jersey.html
> Until then, don't try and tell me that Microsoft is "All about Choice".
MS wants you to choose their products, and that's as far as they can and do
go with it.
I expect you do the same when you go on your "lock-in sales calls" to IBM
clients. Do these prospective clients ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H marks understand you
bill them $300 per hour, and they may have to lay off employees just so they
can be subjected to your "expertise" for a week?
> It's an insult to every member and contributor to the OLPC project.
I'd say $3 for Windows XP Starter Edition, Microsoft Office Home and Student
2007, Microsoft Math 3.0, Learning Essentials 2.0 for Microsoft Office, and
Windows Live Mail is the best news the OLPC ever got.
OLPC board members agree:
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9017738
Roy Schestowitz
I'm happy to see that you don't always shut the blinds on him.
--
~~ Best regards
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roy pts/4 cg001a.halls.man Sun May 6 15:29 - 20:13 (04:43)
http://iuron.com - proposing a non-profit search engine
Rex Ballard
> Rex Ballard wrote:
> > And perhaps when Microsoft storts letting
> > OEMs offer a true CHOICE of
> > Winodws, Linux, or Both on all PCs,
> > maybe I'll be a a bit less critical of
> > Microsoft's involevment in OLPC.
>
> Perhaps when you have a shred of proof they block OEMs from doing anything,
> I'll be less critical of your fantasy-land statements. Fact is, for years
> the OEMs have been able to sell what they want: HP and Dell - the two
> biggest PC vendors - have been selling Linux systems for a long time. You
> know this, so your claim above is another in a never-ending stream of lies
> and FUD.
You have testimony and exhibits in DOJ vs Microsoft, EU vs Microsoft,
Novell vs Microsoft, Caldera vs Microsoft, Ohio vs Microsoft, and
about 20 other cases. True, most of these cases were settled, and
part of the settlement was that the records, including al exhibits,
testimony, and official records, were sealed, but the documents were
public domain during the trial. In Ohio vs Microsoft, the exhibits
were put on a public website, as public domain material.
Keep in mind that this material was already sanitized and did not
include the actual contracts as worded, as primary public domain
exhibits. These were always kept under court seal.
Still, the available evidence indicates that Microsoft has
systematically conspired with OEMs, often against their desires, to
exclude competitors from the OEM distribution channel. You might be
able to make the choice that the OEMs made a "choice", but this was a
"choice" between accepting Microsoft onerous and often illegal terms
(Illegal as ruled by federal and EU court judges), or face eminenant
economic collapse of their stock price, profits, and revenue streams,
eliminating sources of financing and inventory resupply.
It would be a bit like my giving you a contract which gives me the
full ownership of your house, without assuming the mortgage, pointing
a loaded AK-47 at your family, and saying "Sign the contract within 10
seconds, or I'll kill one member of your family. After that, I'll
kill one more member of your family every 5 seconds, until you sign".
You'd sign the contract.
The word is extortion. It's a pretty simple game. Offer them terms
you know they would not voluntarily accept, then offer them an
alternative that is even more unacceptable. Lend a letter to Compaq,
stating that because they altered the display of the desktop, putting
Netscape on the desktop, and removing the IE icon, their license to
sell Windows on their most popular line of computers is revoked,
effective 30 days from now. Compaq knows that it cannot sell as many
PCs without Windows as it can With Windows, and even if the sales only
drop 10%, that would be enough to drop the price of the stock as much
as 50%. The drop in stock, reduces the amount of financing available
based on the book value of the stock. No financing means they can't
purchase parts at deep discounts, which means they can't sell the
computers as cheap, which means that the sales and/or profits will
further drop, resulting in the ultimate bankruptcy of the company.
Shortly after the licenses were revoked, Compaq did renegotiate terms,
but the cost was so great that they became a target for takeover by
Hewlett Packard.
Fortunately, HP has several other product lines which generate
substantial portions of the revenue. They can stand up to Microsoft a
bit more aggressively, and as a result, they have been gradually
pushing Linux-ready computers into the market, computers which run
better with Linux, than with Windows.
Lennovo and Dell have been doing the same, but have been mostly
following HP's lead.
But Even HP has to maintain terms with Microsoft to assure a steady
supply of Windows.
Vista has demonstrated the weakness of Microsoft's position in the
marketplace. If 50% of the
PCs sold last year were "enhanced with Linux", and Vista has tried to
kill that ability, and the
trend is even further toward Linux, then Vista sales would be less
than 50% of the current PC volumes,
and XP, which is more "Linux Friendly" will be sold with more of the
PCs.
People don't want to give up Windows entirely, but OEMs and End Users
have been pushing for
almost a decade, trying to get Microsoft to soften up their position
over Microsoft control over "Alteration of the boot sequence",
"Content of ads and promotional materials using the Microsoft
trademarks and logos", and "publicaton of benchmarks involving
Microsoft products". Microsoft must give prior written approval in
each of these cases, and even though there is no formal policy
forbidding changes such as dual-boot, or ads offering Windows and/or
Linux, and benchmarks comparing Windows and Linux, requests for
Microsoft approval seem to spend months, even years in the legal
department. Have any of them EVER been approved?
Actions speak louder than words, and "What's So" speaks louder than
any court settlement. The whole point of DOJ vs Microsoft was to
create an environment in which competitors would have equal access to
key marketing and distribution channels. Nearly 10 years after the
first charges were filed, Microsoft still does not permit OEMs to
configure Dual-boot systems. Microsoft still doesn't permit "Either/
or/both" advertizing, and Microsoft still does not permit the
publication of benchmarks and direct comparisons between Windows and
Linux, or even Windows and Mac.
Apple very carefully avoids Microsoft restrictions by not using the
Microsoft trademarks and logos in their "PC guy / Mac guy"
advertizements. The assumption is that a PC is not a Mac and that a
Mac is not a PC. The other assumption is that a PC only runs Windows,
but the term Windows is not used in the commercials.
> > When people can walk into any retail store that sells PCs and compare
> > a machine running Windows, to a Mac and a machine running Linux, at
> > that point, you can talk about CHOICE.
>
> The Duluth GA Microcenter is open Mon - Sat 10 to 9, and Sun 11 to 6
I said any retail store, not ONE retail store. Any store that sells
PCs should have Windows and Linux AND MAC on the same shelves,
allowing the end-user to make an informed decision as to which they
would like.
When I want to shop for game machines, they have Nintendo, PS/2 or PS/
3, and X/Box on display next to each other, and buyers cand decide
which console offers the best price/performance/features based on
their particular prefreences and tastes.
I'm not saying that if you put Windows, Mac, and Linux on the same set
of shelves, that nobody would choose Windows. I do beleve that the
number making the choice for a "Windows Only" system would be far
fewer - perhaps 40-50% instead of 99.5%.
> > Until then, don't try and tell me that Microsoft is "All about Choice".
>
> MS wants you to choose their products, and that's as far as they can and do
> go with it.
MS wants OEMs and CIOs to choose their products, which takes the
choice away from
end users completely. Less than 1% of Microsoft's Windows license
revenue comes from
sales directly to end users.
> I expect you do the same when you go on your "lock-in sales calls" to IBM
> clients.
You obviously don't know much about IBM's Global Services division do
you?
IBM encourages flexibility. You can get DB2 for Solaris, Windows, HP-
UX, and Linux as well as AIX.
Oracle runs faster on AIX than DB/2 (according to at least one
benchmark touted by Oracle).
MQ Series/WMQ runs on almost anything, including Windows and Linux.
Eclipse runs most flavors of Unix, as well as Linux and Windows.
Linux for Z-Series can run most Open Source software, as well as most
Java 2 applications.
IBM understands that even within different departments, different
choices are appropriate. Needs vary based on phase of the project,
budget of the supporting organization, size of the organization,
amount of load to be supported, architecture needs (reliability,
scalability, supportability, security, performance, and integration
with other systems (standards compliance)).
Microsoft on the other hand, is very monolithic. They want PC makers
to offer Windows, and only Windows, and Office and only Microsoft
Office. The applications only run on Windows, and even then the
newest Microsoft applications only run on the newest versions of
Windows, and the newest versions of Windows only run the newest
applications.
Microsoft is looking for ways to get recurring revenue. That's why
they were talking to Yahoo. But until then, Microsoft must depend on
forced upgrades and forced sales as well as forced support programs to
maintain their current revenue and profit targets.
> > It's an insult to every member and contributor to the OLPC project.
>
> I'd say $3 for Windows XP Starter Edition, Microsoft Office Home and Student
> 2007, Microsoft Math 3.0, Learning Essentials 2.0 for Microsoft Office, and
> Windows Live Mail is the best news the OLPC ever got.
For how long? I remember when Microsoft offered Office for $99/copy,
back when Lotus Notes and WordPerfect were the dominant players. I
remember when IE was simply Mosaic, and didn't demand that you
register and expose yourself to viruses and executable code that were
"approved" by "trusted" authorities, none of which involved government
agencies, government regulation, or even prosecution for computer
trespassing laws.
Micrososft will "give it away" this year, to get Windows installed on
99% of all OLPCs, then they will turn around and start pulling the
same strong-arm tactics that have been going on for the last 25 years.
> OLPC board members agree:http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBas...
One board member thinks this is OK.
What about the thousands of developers, contributors, and supporters
who have contributed time, software, money, engineering expertise, and
political support for OLPC? This is as offensive as if Richard
Stallman sold all rights to GNU over to Microsoft - for $2 million.
I repeat,
Allowing Microsoft to put itself in a position where it can force-feed
OLPC manufacturers into preinstalling Windows - at any price - is
offensive to the millions of people who have supported OLPC directly
or indirectly through their contributions to Linux, OSS, and OLPC, as
well as other projects bringing low cost computers to poor students
and people in "3rd world" countries. Their efforts up to this point
has transformed many of these countries into "Emerging Economies" -
many of them now experiencing huge economic growth and expansion.
But again, - Microsoft has to drop it's turd in the punch bowl!
DFS
> On May 6, 5:47 pm, "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
>> Rex Ballard wrote:
>>> And perhaps when Microsoft storts letting
>>> OEMs offer a true CHOICE of
>>> Winodws, Linux, or Both on all PCs,
>>> maybe I'll be a a bit less critical of
>>> Microsoft's involevment in OLPC.
>>
>> Perhaps when you have a shred of proof they block OEMs from doing
>> anything,
>> I'll be less critical of your fantasy-land statements. Fact is, for
>> years
>> the OEMs have been able to sell what they want: HP and Dell - the two
>> biggest PC vendors - have been selling Linux systems for a long
>> time. You
>> know this, so your claim above is another in a never-ending stream
>> of lies
>> and FUD.
>
> You have testimony and exhibits in DOJ vs Microsoft, EU vs Microsoft,
> Novell vs Microsoft, Caldera vs Microsoft, Ohio vs Microsoft, and
> about 20 other cases.
You have HP and Dell and every single OEM in the world able to sell Linux if
they want, since at least 1999.
> It would be a bit like my giving you a contract which gives me the
> full ownership of your house, without assuming the mortgage, pointing
> a loaded AK-47 at your family, and saying "Sign the contract within 10
> seconds, or I'll kill one member of your family. After that, I'll
> kill one more member of your family every 5 seconds, until you sign".
> You'd sign the contract.
No it wouldn't be anything like that.
> The word is extortion. It's a pretty simple game. Offer them terms
> you know they would not voluntarily accept, then offer them an
> alternative that is even more unacceptable. Lend a letter to Compaq,
> stating that because they altered the display of the desktop, putting
> Netscape on the desktop, and removing the IE icon, their license to
> sell Windows on their most popular line of computers is revoked,
> effective 30 days from now.
Show us proof this ever happened. Of course you won't, because you can't.
You'll just slink away, or claim it was published but no longer available.
And curiously you remember exact numbers from these documents, but you can't
get your hands on any links to the documents. Why is that? I'll tell you
why: it's because you just make stuff up out of thin air. You fabricate
half of what you say without a care in the world for the truth. And then
these clueless cola readers come behind you and say "Great post!" and "Rex
Ballard is a great man!"
Gawd.
> Fortunately, HP has several other product lines which generate
> substantial portions of the revenue. They can stand up to Microsoft a
> bit more aggressively, and as a result, they have been gradually
> pushing Linux-ready computers into the market, computers which run
> better with Linux, than with Windows.
Of course you use a nebulous term like "runs better" so you can come behind
and fit your "facts" into it later.
> Lennovo and Dell have been doing the same, but have been mostly
> following HP's lead.
>
> But Even HP has to maintain terms with Microsoft to assure a steady
> supply of Windows.
How would you know what HP "has to" do?
> Vista has demonstrated the weakness of Microsoft's position in the
> marketplace. If 50% of the PCs sold last year were "enhanced with Linux",
ROFL! And if 50% of the words out of your mouth had any relationship
whatsoever with reality...
> and Vista has tried to kill that ability, and the
> trend is even further toward Linux, then Vista sales would be less
> than 50% of the current PC volumes,
> and XP, which is more "Linux Friendly" will be sold with more of the
> PCs.
>
> People don't want to give up Windows entirely, but OEMs and End Users
> have been pushing for
> almost a decade, trying to get Microsoft to soften up their position
> over Microsoft control over "Alteration of the boot sequence",
> "Content of ads and promotional materials using the Microsoft
> trademarks and logos", and "publicaton of benchmarks involving
> Microsoft products".
If they do those things, it's to maintain control over their image. You
should know that.
> Microsoft must give prior written approval in
> each of these cases, and even though there is no formal policy
> forbidding changes such as dual-boot, or ads offering Windows and/or
> Linux, and benchmarks comparing Windows and Linux, requests for
> Microsoft approval seem to spend months, even years in the legal
> department. Have any of them EVER been approved?
How would you know what any OEM anywhere asks of Microsoft?
> Actions speak louder than words, and "What's So" speaks louder than
> any court settlement. The whole point of DOJ vs Microsoft was to
> create an environment in which competitors would have equal access to
> key marketing and distribution channels. Nearly 10 years after the
> first charges were filed, Microsoft still does not permit OEMs to
> configure Dual-boot systems. Microsoft still doesn't permit "Either/
> or/both" advertizing, and Microsoft still does not permit the
> publication of benchmarks and direct comparisons between Windows and
> Linux, or even Windows and Mac.
I see dozens of benchmarks all over the web comparing Windows and Linux.
>>> When people can walk into any retail store that sells PCs and
>>> compare a machine running Windows, to a Mac and a machine running
>>> Linux, at that point, you can talk about CHOICE.
>>
>> The Duluth GA Microcenter is open Mon - Sat 10 to 9, and Sun 11 to 6
>
> I said any retail store, not ONE retail store. Any store that sells
> PCs should have Windows and Linux AND MAC on the same shelves,
> allowing the end-user to make an informed decision as to which they
> would like.
Why should they? Luckily for us here in the free world, retail stores sell
what they want to sell.
I know many Linux idiots would love to legally force OEMs to offer Linux
systems, but they're not going to get what they want.
>>> Until then, don't try and tell me that Microsoft is "All about
>>> Choice".
>>
>> MS wants you to choose their products, and that's as far as they can
>> and do go with it.
>
> MS wants OEMs and CIOs to choose their products, which takes the
> choice away from end users completely.
huh? I could've sworn I bought Linux and OS/2 and DR-DOS retail boxsets at
MicroCenter and CompUSA. And was I imagining those 10 distros for sale at
MicroCenter?
> Less than 1% of Microsoft's Windows license revenue comes from
> sales directly to end users.
How do you know?
>> I expect you do the same when you go on your "lock-in sales calls"
>> to IBM clients.
>
> You obviously don't know much about IBM's Global Services division do
> you?
> IBM encourages flexibility. You can get DB2 for Solaris, Windows, HP-
> UX, and Linux as well as AIX.
So DB2 is open source software now, is it? IBM hadn't heard.
> Oracle runs faster on AIX than DB/2 (according to at least one
> benchmark touted by Oracle).
> MQ Series/WMQ runs on almost anything, including Windows and Linux.
MQ Series is open source as well? Hallelujah!
> Eclipse runs most flavors of Unix, as well as Linux and Windows.
> Linux for Z-Series can run most Open Source software, as well as most
> Java 2 applications.
>
> IBM understands that even within different departments, different
> choices are appropriate.
Face facts: you hawk exorbitantly expensive, closed-source, proprietary IBM
solutions and overpriced "consultancy" by day, and pretend to advocate
inexpensive, open source, free software solutions by night. It's blatant
hypocrisy.
By what right do you castigate MS for doing what you do all day?
> Microsoft on the other hand, is very monolithic. They want PC makers
> to offer Windows, and only Windows, and Office and only Microsoft
> Office.
So when was the last time you asked a client to buy non-IBM software when
there was an IBM offering available?
> The applications only run on Windows, and even then the
> newest Microsoft applications only run on the newest versions of
> Windows, and the newest versions of Windows only run the newest
> applications.
>
> Microsoft is looking for ways to get recurring revenue. That's why
> they were talking to Yahoo. But until then, Microsoft must depend on
> forced upgrades and forced sales as well as forced support programs to
> maintain their current revenue and profit targets.
You must be thinking about Dell forcing Ubuntu onto the world.
>>> It's an insult to every member and contributor to the OLPC project.
>>
>> I'd say $3 for Windows XP Starter Edition, Microsoft Office Home and
>> Student 2007, Microsoft Math 3.0, Learning Essentials 2.0 for
>> Microsoft Office, and Windows Live Mail is the best news the OLPC ever
>> got.
>
> For how long?
Forever.
> I remember when Microsoft offered Office for $99/copy,
> back when Lotus Notes and WordPerfect were the dominant players. I
> remember when IE was simply Mosaic, and didn't demand that you
> register and expose yourself to viruses and executable code that were
> "approved" by "trusted" authorities, none of which involved government
> agencies, government regulation, or even prosecution for computer
> trespassing laws.
>
> Micrososft will "give it away" this year, to get Windows installed on
> 99% of all OLPCs, then they will turn around and start pulling the
> same strong-arm tactics that have been going on for the last 25 years.
MS has never strong-armed me. Why is it Linux users have such a victim
mentality?
>> OLPC board members agree:
>> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBas...
>
> One board member thinks this is OK.
>
> What about the thousands of developers, contributors, and supporters
> who have contributed time, software, money, engineering expertise, and
> political support for OLPC? This is as offensive as if Richard
> Stallman sold all rights to GNU over to Microsoft - for $2 million.
The only offensive thing is you and the other cola idiots thinking Linux/OSS
has some divine right to be installed on those OLPC systems in the first
place. When you start manufacturing them or purchasing $millions of them,
you can decide what goes on them.
> I repeat,
>
> Allowing Microsoft to put itself in a position where it can force-feed
> OLPC manufacturers into preinstalling Windows
I repeat,
more Rex Ballard bullshit. The governments of some of the countries
considering OLPC specifically requested it be able to run Windows.
And the users will be far, far better served with the MS software than the
moronic open source Sugar interface that treats the children like zoo
animals who push a picture to get a food pellet.
Note: this assumes they can get the MS software to even run on the OLPC
systems - not a sure thing if you read the article.
> - at any price - is
> offensive to the millions of people who have supported OLPC directly
> or indirectly through their contributions to Linux, OSS, and OLPC, as
> well as other projects bringing low cost computers to poor students
> and people in "3rd world" countries. Their efforts up to this point
> has transformed many of these countries into "Emerging Economies" -
> many of them now experiencing huge economic growth and expansion.
Spare me your "Linux will save the world" pablum.
> But again, - Microsoft has to drop it's turd in the punch bowl!
At least it's a solid, well-shaped turd, and not loose, watery,
malaria-ridden, open source diarrhea...