IIRC, the only times Microsoft and IBM hooked up were when Microsoft licensed MS-DOS to IBM for dirt cheap and when Microsoft and IBM collaborated on OS/2.
I think he made the claim on either the Friday edition or Thursday edition of his radio show. I've posted links to both shows.
Darth Chaos wrote: > IIRC, the only times Microsoft and IBM hooked up were when Microsoft > licensed MS-DOS to IBM for dirt cheap and when Microsoft and IBM > collaborated on OS/2.
> I think he made the claim on either the Friday edition or Thursday > edition of his radio show. I've posted links to both shows.
> I admit I listen to that radio show frequently, but even I think > claiming MS to be an IBM front is ridiculous.
I dunno who this guy is, but with this statement he's shown himself to be a dumbass of the highest degree. Microsoft are most definitely their own outfit.
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:38:18 -0700 (PDT), Darth Chaos wrote: > IIRC, the only times Microsoft and IBM hooked up were when Microsoft > licensed MS-DOS to IBM for dirt cheap and when Microsoft and IBM > collaborated on OS/2.
> I think he made the claim on either the Friday edition or Thursday > edition of his radio show. I've posted links to both shows.
> I admit I listen to that radio show frequently, but even I think > claiming MS to be an IBM front is ridiculous.
That's absolutely crazy. IBM *tolerates* Microsoft and the opposite is true as well. They both make money off of each other however there is no love between those two companies.
Scuttlebut is that IBM's plan is to ultimately move off Windows and Microsoft completely at some point.
I *suspect* a version of Linux that will be so well done and so well received that it will compete with Windows in a way that the mish mash of 500+ different distributions has been unable to do. -- Moshe Goldfarb Collector of soaps from around the globe. Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
On Sep 6, 5:38 pm, Darth Chaos <DarthChaosofR...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IIRC, the only times Microsoft and IBM hooked up were when Microsoft > licensed MS-DOS to IBM for dirt cheap and when Microsoft and IBM > collaborated on OS/2.
> I think he made the claim on either the Friday edition or Thursday > edition of his radio show. I've posted links to both shows.
> I admit I listen to that radio show frequently, but even I think > claiming MS to be an IBM front is ridiculous.
Alex Jones is a jackass. His frequent guest are Hoffman a lunatic who believes Semite Satans, David Icke who believes world is control by Reptilian. Angel's wife tell us about Excrement; world's healthiest food, and who let's not forget his last show about how his mom got pregnant when she was virgin!
<phil_the_lickREMOVETHISSPAMT...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Darth Chaos wrote: > > IIRC, the only times Microsoft and IBM hooked up were when Microsoft > > licensed MS-DOS to IBM for dirt cheap and when Microsoft and IBM > > collaborated on OS/2.
> > I think he made the claim on either the Friday edition or Thursday > > edition of his radio show. I've posted links to both shows.
> > I admit I listen to that radio show frequently, but even I think > > claiming MS to be an IBM front is ridiculous.
> I dunno who this guy is, but with this statement he's shown himself to > be a dumbass of the highest degree. Microsoft are most definitely their > own outfit.
Alex Jones is a copy version of Jeff Rense. If you don't know them consider yourself lucky. These guys write conspiracy theory. Not just an ordinary theory. I will list few of them here.
Guest #1 David Icke -- believes that world is control by Reptile. Guest #2 John Rhodes; how he lost is reptilian wife! Guest #3 His own mother; How she has her first baby when she was virgin! Guest #4 Larry Sinclair; man who claimed to be a lover of Obama, and yet couldn't even pass polygraph test. (see the link) http://gawker.com/360609/obamas-gay-lover-cant-pass-polygraph Guest #5 Mr Oga Boga; Why chickens are our creator! (I kid you not!). Guest #6 Miss Kelly; Why girls should be adam apple! Guest #7 Mr. Anonymous; boys with birth canal!
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:45:46 -0700 (PDT), Jesse Dorland wrote: > On Sep 6, 5:38 pm, Darth Chaos <DarthChaosofR...@gmail.com> wrote: >> IIRC, the only times Microsoft and IBM hooked up were when Microsoft >> licensed MS-DOS to IBM for dirt cheap and when Microsoft and IBM >> collaborated on OS/2.
>> I think he made the claim on either the Friday edition or Thursday >> edition of his radio show. I've posted links to both shows.
>> I admit I listen to that radio show frequently, but even I think >> claiming MS to be an IBM front is ridiculous.
> Alex Jones is a jackass. His frequent guest are Hoffman a lunatic who > believes Semite Satans, David Icke who believes world is control by > Reptilian. Angel's wife tell us about Excrement; world's healthiest > food, and who let's not forget his last show about how his mom got > pregnant when she was virgin!
Holy mackerel!
He makes Art Bell sound almost normal......
Art thinks that reptilian lizrd people are controlling the earth from underground as well.
-- Moshe Goldfarb Collector of soaps from around the globe. Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
____/ Darth Chaos on Saturday 06 September 2008 21:38 : \____
> IIRC, the only times Microsoft and IBM hooked up were when Microsoft > licensed MS-DOS to IBM for dirt cheap and when Microsoft and IBM > collaborated on OS/2.
> I think he made the claim on either the Friday edition or Thursday > edition of his radio show. I've posted links to both shows.
> I admit I listen to that radio show frequently, but even I think > claiming MS to be an IBM front is ridiculous.
No, PJ is a front for IBM.
[sarcasm /]
- -- "There's a lot of Linux out there -- much more than Microsoft generally signals publicly -- and their customers are using it..." --Paul DeGroot, a Directions On Microsoft analyst. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:28:13 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1
> ____/ Darth Chaos on Saturday 06 September 2008 21:38 : \____
>> IIRC, the only times Microsoft and IBM hooked up were when Microsoft >> licensed MS-DOS to IBM for dirt cheap and when Microsoft and IBM >> collaborated on OS/2.
>> I think he made the claim on either the Friday edition or Thursday >> edition of his radio show. I've posted links to both shows.
> IBM, Linux and the Microsoft-Free PC > Big Blue fires double-barrel action against Microsoft. > August 5, 2008 > By Sean Michael Kerner > "The idea of Microsoft-free personal computing has been in the air for a while," Inna Kuznetsova, director of Linux at IBM, told InternetNews.com. "We're just partnering with Linux distribution vendors and hardware vendors to make it happen."
____/ Linonut on Sunday 07 September 2008 12:14 : \____
> * Roy Schestowitz peremptorily fired off this memo:
>> ____/ Darth Chaos on Saturday 06 September 2008 21:38 : \____
>>> I admit I listen to that radio show frequently, but even I think >>> claiming MS to be an IBM front is ridiculous.
>> No, PJ is a front for IBM.
> Heh heh.
>> [sarcasm /]
> Even that tag won't help Moshe. Prepare for another parental scolding > or loony-tunes rant, depending on his medication level.
A few days ago I linked to Bill Beebe's support of Maureen O'Gara's spying and was asked to replace that link so as to avoid proximity to the libel.
The Munchkins love some good libel. And they dare call "lies" and "spam" to news articles.
- -- "There's a lot of Linux out there -- much more than Microsoft generally signals publicly -- and their customers are using it..." --Paul DeGroot, a Directions On Microsoft analyst. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Roy Schestowitz <newsgro...@schestowitz.com> writes: > ____/ Linonut on Sunday 07 September 2008 12:14 : \____
>> * Roy Schestowitz peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>> ____/ Darth Chaos on Saturday 06 September 2008 21:38 : \____
>>>> I admit I listen to that radio show frequently, but even I think >>>> claiming MS to be an IBM front is ridiculous.
>>> No, PJ is a front for IBM.
>> Heh heh.
>>> [sarcasm /]
>> Even that tag won't help Moshe. Prepare for another parental scolding >> or loony-tunes rant, depending on his medication level.
> A few days ago I linked to Bill Beebe's support of Maureen O'Gara's spying and > was asked to replace that link so as to avoid proximity to the libel.
> The Munchkins love some good libel. And they dare call "lies" and "spam" to > news articles.
Why is your PGP key linked as "s...@danielsorogon.com" where that site is some half arsed show piece of closed source flash ? And poorly done at that.
-- "For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software. I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>
Sydney, 2 September 2008, A new IDC report has shown the competition in the Identity and Access Management (IAM) market in Australia and New Zealand (ANZ) has intensified over the last 12 months. Oracle has established a strong presence in the market, challenging other incumbents including IBM, CA, Sun and Novell.
I think you fat-fingered something.
I have no idea what you're getting at with that article.
-- OVER the underpass! UNDER the overpass! Around the FUTURE and BEYOND REPAIR!!
> Sydney, 2 September 2008, A new IDC report has shown the competition in > the Identity and Access Management (IAM) market in Australia and New > Zealand (ANZ) has intensified over the last 12 months. Oracle has > established a strong presence in the market, challenging other > incumbents including IBM, CA, Sun and Novell.
> I think you fat-fingered something.
> I have no idea what you're getting at with that article.
Nothing leapt out from it? No clear evidence that Microsoft was behind that IDC report? Nothing nefarious about it appearing in a Linux magazine?
Read deeper. Roy managed to use that as that start of a long spiel about how Microsoft money is controlling the content of InfoWorld, ComputerWorld, JavaWorld, LinuxWorld, MacUser, MacWorld, Network World, and PC World are all on the take from Microsoft. Yet you think *Moshe* is the loony-tune, and Roy is sane!?
On Sep 7, 12:38 am, Darth Chaos <DarthChaosofR...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IIRC, the only times Microsoft and IBM hooked up were when Microsoft > licensed MS-DOS to IBM for dirt cheap
When IBM turned to Microsoft for PC-DOS, they had been rebuffed by Gary Kildall of CP/M fame, because IBM wanted him to sign a nondisclosure and noncompete agreement which would have put him out of the CP/M, MP/M, and CP/M-86 game. Gary didn't want to turn his back on his previous customers.
When Gates claimed that he had an operating system, he wasn't completely lying, Microsoft actually DID have Xenix which they had produced based on AT&T Unix Version 6 and had marketed with the Tandy 6000 based 68000 based computer.
Of course, that wasn't the OS that Bill wanted to provide to IBM, and he had read about QDOS (Quick and Dirty OS) which had been written for the Z-80 processor and some very basic hardware, but it was a work- alike to CP/M, and even included some dissassembled CP/M code that had been translated to the Z-80 memnonics.
Ironically, Microsoft had to dissasemble the Z-80 code into intel memnonics, then determine what needed to be 8088 specific. Still, it was a LOT faster than trying to create an equivalent to CP/M from scratch.
IBM may also have wanted to keep the new PC a bit "dumb", because they didn't want PCs biting into their terminal, mainframe, and minicomputer market. It was too late for the Minicomputer market, and the Series-1 minicomputer couldn't compete with PCs and "sneaker- net" (passing floppies between users).
The irony is that IBM didn't set up the PC as a "Terminal Emulator" to replace 3270 terminals, but the PC made a very nice UNIX Terminal. Later, terminals such as the H-19 and Z-19 terminals were actually PCs with no disk drive, and terminal in ROM. Some terminals were even programmable, with the ability to download small programs through the RS-232 connection.
> and when Microsoft and IBM collaborated on OS/2.
The OS/2 collaboration was always a bit tense. IBM was very concerned about quality control. They wanted a 32 bit operating system that supported true multitasking, unlimited windows, and high quality networking. To IBM, the product to beat was AT&T Unix. IBM knew, from the release of the 80386, that the cost of UNIX would go down, and it wouldn't be long before UNIX, or something very much like it, was available on PCs for a price that was competitive with MS-DOS.
Microsoft was used to seat-of-the-pants coding and the "three finger salute" (cntrl-alt-delete) was such a common practice that people just assumed that they were supposed to reboot their PCs several times per day. Gates was very frustrated with IBM's "bureaucracy, the constant reporting, documentation of design changes, and detailed accounting records. IBM knew that Microsoft was also working on Windows, and didn't want to end up paying for Windows development.
Eventually, an audit revealed that Bill Gates had personally ordered the embezzlement of about 3 billion from IBM. IBM was getting charged for Windows developers, and Gates personally ordered the Windows teams to use OS/2 code that had been designed and developed on IBM's dime, often with IBM's engineering help.
With the release of Windows 3.0 and Microsoft's public denouncement of OS/2, IBM and Microsoft got their "divorce", with IBM getting the right to embed Windows functionality in OS/2 (about 70% of the OS/2 PCs sold were sold with BOTH Windows and OS/2).
Microsoft also have IBM the 32 bit code for OS/2, which turned out to be more trouble than it was worth. It took Boca Raton almost 3 years to fix errors caused by sloppy Microsoft programming and lack of awareness of concepts like reentrant code, race conditions, and deadlocks. When everything was cleaned up in Warp 4.0, Microsoft tried to force IBM to stop marketing OS/2 as a precondition for getting Windows 95. When that didn't work, Microsoft threatened to revoke the right of Retailers to turn on Windows PCs if OS/2 PCs were displayed in the store.
By 1996, IBM was looking for a "Unix Desktop" to compete with Windows. They had very good results with AIX, and Lou Gerstner's shift to customer focused consulting as opposed to "pushing products, wanted or not" showed that customers and clients were very receptive to AIX. So successful that IBM decided to put UNIX on the Mainframe, which became one of the "personalities" of OS/390.
IBM had contracted with SCO, in a joint project with HP, DEC, and Compaq, for a cheap Intel version of UNIX that could be run on small "Merced" PC Servers as well as desktops and laptops. By late 1997, SCO was way behind schedule. IBM gave them some code to help accelerate the development, but it was almost like SCO was "dragging it's feet". Is it possible that Microsoft was working to hold back, or stall the development?
Meanwhile, the Linux kernel team had a fully functional version of Linux working on the Merced Simulator. That was enough to impress IBM, and soon Sam Palmisano was publicly announcing IBM's support for Linux. About 6 months later, he was named Lou Gerstner's successer as CEO of IBM.
Any notion that Microsoft is a "front" for IBM is quite amusing. I'm sure that Sam would find it to be quite a surprise. Since the announcement of Vista, Sam has been cutting ties with Microsoft as much as possible, selling off the PC division, and even selling most (all?) of their equity interest in Lenovo.
Internally, IBM purchased their transferrable licenses to XP/2000 and Office, added Linux support to their standard software installer, and removed MS-Office from the same installer. In effect, IBM has adopted a strategy that eliminates the need to pay Microsoft anything for Windows or Office. They are offering Notes 8 to all employees, and Symphony to all clients. Eclipse based plug-ins can be used for project management and "visio style" diagrams.
> I think he made the claim on either the Friday edition or Thursday > edition of his radio show. I've posted links to both shows. > http://rss.nfowars.net/20080905_Fri_Alex.mp3 (Friday show) > http://rss.nfowars.net/20080904_Thu_Alex.mp3 (Thursday show) > I admit I listen to that radio show frequently, but even I think > claiming MS to be an IBM front is ridiculous.
IBM and Microsoft are at odds on numerous fronts.
IBM is supporting Linux and OSS, and has even released their on OSS, putting it under control of non-profit organizations.
IBM is a big supporter of Open Document Format, Microsoft is pushing OpenXML.
IBM just publicly exposed vulnerabilites with Windows/ActiveX, and can back it up. (These hacks have been published since 1997, but Microsoft keeps getting injunctions against the small blogger style web sites).
IBM is a major supporter of Platform Independent Java (J2SE and J2EE), while Microsoft has pushed .NET and other "Windows Only" technologies.
IBM even did a pilot test of Apple Laptops to see how they would play in diverse client environments (problems were similar to those with Linux).
IBM has give their consultents Linux options so that they can run LInux on the latpop (as VMWare client, or with Linux Native and Windows on VMWare).
IBM has made all of the employee related sites "Firefox Friendly" as well as "Linux friendly", including the travel web site.
Now that IBM is a Microsoft CUSTOMER and NOT a Windows VENDOR, they are getting very aggressive about getting rid of as much Microsoft as possible.
It's almost as if IBM is saying "Not another dime to Microsoft".
Ideas and Opinions expressed in this article are strictly my own personal observations, ideas, and opinions, and may or may not reflect IBM's official policies.
Official IBM websites related to Open Source and Linux include:
> Sydney, 2 September 2008, A new IDC report has shown the competition in > the Identity and Access Management (IAM) market in Australia and New > Zealand (ANZ) has intensified over the last 12 months. Oracle has > established a strong presence in the market, challenging other > incumbents including IBM, CA, Sun and Novell.
> I think you fat-fingered something.
> I have no idea what you're getting at with that article.
Timmy takes things out of context, 'having stalked' me in a blog. For your information, don't rely on selective Timmy Snippets™ (not the first time, either!). Go to the source in its entirety:
- -- "There's a lot of Linux out there -- much more than Microsoft generally signals publicly -- and their customers are using it..." --Paul DeGroot, a Directions On Microsoft analyst. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>> "The idea of Microsoft-free personal computing has been in the air for a while," Inna Kuznetsova, director of Linux at IBM, told InternetNews.com. "We're just partnering with Linux distribution vendors and hardware vendors to make it happen." > )))))
Internally. IOW their own employees......
-- Moshe Goldfarb Collector of soaps from around the globe. Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:10:29 +0000, Roy Schestowitz wrote: > Timmy takes things out of context, 'having stalked' me in a blog. For your > information, don't rely on selective Timmy Snippets™ (not the first time, > either!). Go to the source in its entirety:
The source? You? Hahhahaha! That's a good one. BTW why is your PGP key on some wacko's website which uses closed source software and looks like Tokyo by night?
I wouldn't touch your trojan infested site, www.boycottnovel.com with a barge pole, Roy Schestowitz.
-- Moshe Goldfarb Collector of soaps from around the globe. Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
> >> "The idea of Microsoft-free personal computing has been in the air for a while," Inna Kuznetsova, director of Linux at IBM, told InternetNews.com. "We're just partnering with Linux distribution vendors and hardware vendors to make it happen." > > )))))
> Internally. > IOW their own employees......
Actually, it looks like the Lotus organization might work more closely with VARs and/or OEMs to provide the new platform. Since IBM is no longer in the PC business directly, they can market directly to all of the PC vendors, offering them the "New IBM Compatibility".
>> Sydney, 2 September 2008, A new IDC report has shown the competition in >> the Identity and Access Management (IAM) market in Australia and New >> Zealand (ANZ) has intensified over the last 12 months. Oracle has >> established a strong presence in the market, challenging other >> incumbents including IBM, CA, Sun and Novell.
>> I think you fat-fingered something.
>> I have no idea what you're getting at with that article.
> Nothing leapt out from it? No clear evidence that Microsoft was behind > that IDC report? Nothing nefarious about it appearing in a Linux > magazine?
> Read deeper. Roy managed to use that as that start of a long spiel > about how Microsoft money is controlling the content of InfoWorld, > ComputerWorld, JavaWorld, LinuxWorld, MacUser, MacWorld, Network World, > and PC World are all on the take from Microsoft. Yet you think *Moshe* > is the loony-tune, and Roy is sane!?
Moshe is loony-tune. As for Roy, I must have missed that one.
You'd have done better to quote Roy-written text or link to it, rather than make some mysterious allusion that calls your motives into question.
-- Let he who takes the plunge remember to return it by Tuesday.
* Roy Schestowitz peremptorily fired off this memo:
> Timmy takes things out of context, 'having stalked' me in a blog. For your > information, don't rely on selective Timmy Snippets? (not the first time, > either!). Go to the source in its entirety:
What a paranoid rant! Into the loony-bin with you Roy Schestowitz!
Microsoft funds F.U.D., sweeps financial fraud under the rug, supported SCO, lobbies in Congress, astroturfs using pressure groups, wallpapers the IT press with advertising, all in support of its business goals of "world domination".
Yeah, you're nuts man! <grin>
Is there a transcript of Lawrence Lessig's speech anywhere?
-- PEGGY FLEMMING is stealing BASKET BALLS to feed the babies in VERMONT.
> Eventually, an audit revealed that Bill Gates had personally ordered > the embezzlement of about 3 billion from IBM. IBM was getting charged > for Windows developers, and Gates personally ordered the Windows teams > to use OS/2 code that had been designed and developed on IBM's dime, > often with IBM's engineering help.
Well, Bill had apparently gotten used to using Harvard computer time to run his nascent business.
Embezzlement may be too strong a word; Wikipedia has a different take:
IBM grew concerned about the delays in development of OS/2 2.0 and the diversion of IBM funds earmarked for OS/2 development towards Windows[citation needed]. Initially, the companies agreed that IBM would take over maintenance of OS/2 1.0 and development of OS/2 2.0, while Microsoft would continue development of OS/2 3.0. In the end, Microsoft decided to recast NT OS/2 3.0 as Windows NT, leaving all future OS/2 development to IBM.
-- I can't mate in captivity. -- Gloria Steinem, on why she has never married.
> * Roy Schestowitz peremptorily fired off this memo:
>> Timmy takes things out of context, 'having stalked' me in a blog. For your >> information, don't rely on selective Timmy Snippets? (not the first time, >> either!). Go to the source in its entirety:
> What a paranoid rant! Into the loony-bin with you Roy Schestowitz!
> Microsoft funds F.U.D., sweeps financial fraud under the rug, supported > SCO, lobbies in Congress, astroturfs using pressure groups, wallpapers > the IT press with advertising, all in support of its business goals of > "world domination".
> Yeah, you're nuts man! <grin>
> Is there a transcript of Lawrence Lessig's speech anywhere?
Not that I know of. I try to get as many people as I can to patiently watch the presentation though.
- -- "There's a lot of Linux out there -- much more than Microsoft generally signals publicly -- and their customers are using it..." --Paul DeGroot, a Directions On Microsoft analyst. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
