Linux User Return To Windows?

[Jim Gresham]

I run linux, mint 14, and have no problems with it to speak of. My
interest in using a home computer is to do average things: email,
newsgroups, surfing, printing, a bit of photo and video editing,
running web cameras, downloading and viewing movies, running
skype, etc.

This is on an I5 Ivy Bridge machine that the technician at the
computer store put together with standard components - no special
video or sound cards, etc.

The wifi, sound and video worked on startup - no configuring
needed.

Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me returning
to windows, even if I could do it without paying for windows?

If a good case can not be made, then why would an average home
computer user want to use windows rather than linux?

By the way, I am sending this to COLA because
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy seems not to be used, and this place
seems to be where both camps slug it out.

[Mark S Bilk]

In a case like yours, which matches the majority of users, Linux
is more reliable, less expensive (zero cost), and if a good distro
and desktop environment are chosen, like OpenSuse and KDE3, or
*buntu and TrinityDesktopEnvironment, provides some very useful
additional features, like multiple virtual desktops. Maybe XFCE
would do the same.

The only reason why the average person uses Windows is Microsoft's
coercive deals with computer vendors, resulting in Windows being
preinstalled, and its ubiquitous anti-Linux propaganda:

http://cosmicpenguin.com/linux/MICROSOFTS_WAR_AGAINST_LINUX.html

Great to hear from "lurkers"!

[7]

Jim Gresham wrote:

> I run linux, mint 14, and have no problems with it to speak of. My
> interest in using a home computer is to do average things: email,
> newsgroups, surfing, printing, a bit of photo and video editing,
> running web cameras, downloading and viewing movies, running
> skype, etc.
>
> This is on an I5 Ivy Bridge machine that the technician at the
> computer store put together with standard components - no special
> video or sound cards, etc.
>
> The wifi, sound and video worked on startup - no configuring
> needed.
>
> Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me returning
> to windows, even if I could do it without paying for windows?

I would delete all windopws.
The number of problems and the amount of time it soaks
up to fix things is astronomical.
Luckily we have an IT guy who is paid to take the suffering
on his chin in order to get paid. Of recent he whines constantly
because of how long it takes to do anything.
I do Linuxy things and its mere seconds.
He tried Linux and gave up but now he realizes Linux is
a lot better and asks me to do all the tricky stuff
and pines for Linux. The last box he bought was Linux NAS server
and he is ever so pleased because the dopey server built with
dopey windopws was just too crummy in terms of speed
and hugely restrictive in numbers of people allowed to attach
and how many protocols it supported. I helped out seeking out
protocols Linux supports like ssh to narrow the list
down and he is now planning
to buy a few more. Everything was just click, point done.
Linux NAS solution was a lot less money - about 1/10 the cost,
but had more features. When shuffling thousands of files
its a lot quicker and more professional than windopws out dated
half baked low on features pricey crap.

[Snit]

On 5/18/13 5:28 AM, in article N1R-KAc...@Safe-mail.net, "Jim Gresham"

I will not speak for Windows advocates, but my take on it is use what works
well for you. If you prefer desktop Linux then use it!

For the basic needs you list it is likely to be quite adequate. Other
options might handle some of those needs better, but they also would cost
more. There is a balance here and also a matter of personal taste. Sounds
like you have already decided to use desktop Linux and I certainly would not
try to talk you out of it.

I would suggest, if you can, to use the alternatives for a while and get to
know Windows, a Linux distro or two, and OS X. OS X, though, is an expensive
thing to just "try for a while" so that might not be possible. So be it - it
is certainly not imperative to your life that you do so!


--

Brad cc Wiggins proves he is an ID forging pathological liar
<http://goo.gl/eC1qa>

[Snit]

On 5/18/13 5:43 AM, in article
40556fc6-7fb7-4b95...@fz1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com, "Mark S

There is no evidence of such "deal". You are making things up again, Bilk.
You claim I am "attacking" you when I point out your baseless claims... but
the claim you make is clearly false given how computer venders *do* offer
systems without Windows. What you say implies they could not do so. Your
claim is demonstrably inaccurate.

This does not mean you are being attacked - this means it is being noted you
are pushing clearly false information which is being corrected. Do you
understand the difference?

--

"The UI is developed by experts, except it is shitty, but improvements are
bringing in more and more users, except that Linux is at 1% as usual."
- Brad cc Wiggins

[philo]

Trying to force a philosophy down someone's throat is nuts. I use which
ever operating system does the job best.

Though for the past three years I have been using Linux
predominately...and in general it has proven reliable and easy to
use...however...if I need to run a Windows application I do not hesitate
to turn on one of my Windows machines.


A few years back I published a book and though I've heard "Publisher"
denigrated often enough, it worked fine for me and was a considerably
better choice than Linux's "Scribus" offering.


My wife just published her first book and it was done using "In
Design"...she thought it a great piece of software and it sure would
have been foolish of me to try to get her to use Linux.

[-hh]

From your description, there's no particular reason to change. However and unfortunately, what there's a real risk of occurring is that some seemingly minor change can upset your status quo.

A personal anecdote example - I had a Synology NAS (which runs on Linux) which had been doing just fine ... have it's Hard Drive fail. Replaced the drive under its warranty and ... the new drive didn't work. Plugged it into my desktop to check it out and it was fine - apparently, the replacement drive had a newer firmware version which was what was causing the NAS to get mucked up ... but not the desktop, as no HDD manifacturer would dare to provide firmware that was incompatible with mainstream OS's. Since the drive does work as advertised, it is now up to me to figure out all the minutia details of finding the right firmware patch, etc etc. YMMV on how much such "hassle factors" are worth to you, regardless of the fanboy debates that such a thing should be a "insignificant and trivial" fix - in my personal case, it simply has been enough of a headache that the NAS has now been sitting idle for months and I'm debating if it simply would be just easier to throw money at the headache by buying another drive from a different manufacturer/etc.

-hh

[Snit]

On 5/18/13 8:30 AM, in article
a56d5c01-cc9d-4171...@googlegroups.com, "-hh"

<recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:

> From your description, there's no particular reason to change.

Though he might experience a lowered level of productivity and efficiency
and a higher error rate. Then again, with Windows 8 maybe not. What a
complete disaster that is in terms of UI and usability. Rumor has it MS will
be releasing Win 8.1 soon and this should be an improvement. I hope so. Hard
to imagine they would make it worse.

What I have seen, in general, is that most hardware will work with Linux...
but the standard of "work" is fairly low. He mentions doing printing - Linux
handles most printers just fine, but often printer-specific features are
missing.

Even with working with video and the like if he wants to user better tools
he may end up wanting to switch at some point. Heck, even with email there
are advantages the competition offers. And with watching videos he might
have challenges with some DRM protected videos. But this does not mean Linux
will not be "good enough" for his needs nor that it will not even serve him
better in some areas.

I am a strong supporter that people should use what they like and, if they
wish to understand technology as the OP seems to, that they use multiple
systems: Windows, OS X, and a couple Linux distros is usually what I
suggest. Then he will be in a position to better make his own informed
choice, though people often are poor judges as to their own efficiency and
productivity and error rates on different systems if such is not measured in
a systemic way.



--

"Snit's so f*cking stupid he thinks the sigma lines are drawn based on
distance from the mean, not area under the curve." - Brad cc Wiggins

Fact: the first sigma is defined by the distance from the mean to the
inflection points.

[Snit]

On 5/18/13 8:21 AM, in article kn862o$m8d$1...@dont-email.me, "philo�ｿｽ"

<philo@priv cy.not> wrote:

> On 05/18/2013 07:28 AM, Jim Gresham wrote:
>> I run linux, mint 14, and have no problems with it to speak of. My
>> interest in using a home computer is to do average things: email,
>> newsgroups, surfing, printing, a bit of photo and video editing,
>> running web cameras, downloading and viewing movies, running
>> skype, etc.
>>
>> This is on an I5 Ivy Bridge machine that the technician at the
>> computer store put together with standard components - no special
>> video or sound cards, etc.
>>
>> The wifi, sound and video worked on startup - no configuring
>> needed.
>>
>> Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me returning
>> to windows, even if I could do it without paying for windows?
>>
>> If a good case can not be made, then why would an average home
>> computer user want to use windows rather than linux?
>>
>> By the way, I am sending this to COLA because
>> comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy seems not to be used, and this place
>> seems to be where both camps slug it out.
>
> Trying to force a philosophy down someone's throat is nuts. I use which
> ever operating system does the job best.

Seems to be the COLA consensus. :)

It is what I call "informed computing" - learn the different common systems
and, if you can, work to understand and even measure your own productivity,
efficiency, and error rates on the different systems. In the real world
these measures are often approximations... how many people are going to do
full scientifically accurate studies on their own behavior!

> Though for the past three years I have been using Linux
> predominately...and in general it has proven reliable and easy to
> use...however...if I need to run a Windows application I do not hesitate
> to turn on one of my Windows machines.

I run OS X as my "main" desktop but have both Windows and multiple Linux
distros set up as VMs. I also have dedicated hardware with Linux but rarely
use it - and do not even have my Mac set to boot by anything other than OS
X.

> A few years back I published a book and though I've heard "Publisher"
> denigrated often enough, it worked fine for me and was a considerably
> better choice than Linux's "Scribus" offering.
>
>
> My wife just published her first book and it was done using "In
> Design"...she thought it a great piece of software and it sure would
> have been foolish of me to try to get her to use Linux.

I do video series: and sadly no Linux software would offer the capabilities
that I use heavily. I use Keynote and do ScreenFlow screencasts - and with
the latter, when doing them for Linux I run Linux in a VM because there
simply is not good Linux solution to do the type of production I do. A
shame.


--
"Maybe there is someone who considers it disgusting for a parrot to have sex
with a human. Or for a dolphin or tiger to have sex with a human. So what?
Others feel that all sex is disgusting." -- Richard Stallman

[7]

wrote:

> On 05/18/2013 07:28 AM, Jim Gresham wrote:
>> I run linux, mint 14, and have no problems with it to speak of. My
>> interest in using a home computer is to do average things: email,
>> newsgroups, surfing, printing, a bit of photo and video editing,
>> running web cameras, downloading and viewing movies, running
>> skype, etc.
>>
>> This is on an I5 Ivy Bridge machine that the technician at the
>> computer store put together with standard components - no special
>> video or sound cards, etc.
>>
>> The wifi, sound and video worked on startup - no configuring
>> needed.
>>
>> Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me returning
>> to windows, even if I could do it without paying for windows?
>>
>> If a good case can not be made, then why would an average home
>> computer user want to use windows rather than linux?
>>
>> By the way, I am sending this to COLA because
>> comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy seems not to be used, and this place
>> seems to be where both camps slug it out.
>>
>
>
>
>
> Trying to force a philosophy down someone's throat is nuts. I use which
> ever operating system does the job best.
>
> Though for the past three years I have been using Linux
> predominately...and in general it has proven reliable and easy to
> use...however...if I need to run a Windows application I do not hesitate
> to turn on one of my Windows machines.

I always and double always hesitate.

I hate all its pretentiously marketted unsecure crap that don't live up to
its expensive expectations.

Its a lot easier to search for an open source or Linux solution.
And they are often better, robust, infinitely more flexible, more features,
faster and has more data sharing features than closed sources.

Something that runs on windopws only is written only by lazy programmers
full of crap, and its highly unlikely I give it a second look these days,
and spend my money elsewhere.

[GreyCloud]

On 5/18/2013 6:28 AM, Jim Gresham wrote:
> I run linux, mint 14, and have no problems with it to speak of. My
> interest in using a home computer is to do average things: email,
> newsgroups, surfing, printing, a bit of photo and video editing,
> running web cameras, downloading and viewing movies, running
> skype, etc.
>
> This is on an I5 Ivy Bridge machine that the technician at the
> computer store put together with standard components - no special
> video or sound cards, etc.
>
> The wifi, sound and video worked on startup - no configuring
> needed.
>
> Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me returning
> to windows, even if I could do it without paying for windows?
>
> If a good case can not be made, then why would an average home
> computer user want to use windows rather than linux?
>

Easy, because there isn't anything that linux can do better than
windows, and on one point, if you are in the U.S. and just installing
your distro as stock, you won't be able to play any of your dvds you
bought at the store. And if you want to get it to work... good luck on
your scavenger hunt. You are going to run into lib dependency hell.
Why go back to an old system instead of going with a modern system?

[GreyCloud]

Guffaw!!! Quit beating about the bush and admit that linux apps just suck.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, Jim Gresham belched this bit o' wisdom:

Really, that needs to be determined only by you.

The average home computer user is lucky to figure out how to use
whatever is handed to them, and that would be Windows, on the desktop,
even today.

The average home computer user needs a lot of handle-holding, or
something dead simple to use, like Android.

--
Cerebus: I'd love to lick apricot brandy out of your navel.
Jaka: Look, Cerebus-- Jaka has to tell you ... something
Cerebus: If Cerebus had a navel, would you lick apricot brandy out of it?
Jaka: Ugh!
Cerebus: You don't like apricot brandy?
-- Cerebus #6, "The Secret"

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:

Looks like Phalse Philo is still hanging around.

--
An 1994 New Yorker article about Microsoft relates "If he strongly disagrees
with what you're saying, [Gates] is in the habit of blurting out, 'That's the
stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard!'". Jennifer New, a former Microsoft
contractor, writes "Meetings with Bill or one of his top people are often
replete with a barrage of expletives and other disdainful comments."
-- Salon, September 1997. My friends who work or have worked at Microsoft
tell similar tales.

[philo]

On 05/18/2013 11:15 AM, 7 wrote:

<snip>

>> Though for the past three years I have been using Linux
>> predominately...and in general it has proven reliable and easy to
>> use...however...if I need to run a Windows application I do not hesitate
>> to turn on one of my Windows machines.
>
>
> I always and double always hesitate.
>
> I hate all its pretentiously marketted unsecure crap that don't live up to
> its expensive expectations.
>
> Its a lot easier to search for an open source or Linux solution.
> And they are often better, robust, infinitely more flexible, more features,
> faster and has more data sharing features than closed sources.
>
> Something that runs on windopws only is written only by lazy programmers
> full of crap, and its highly unlikely I give it a second look these days,
> and spend my money elsewhere.
>

If I can find Linux software that does the job I use it.
OTOH: There are no Linux applications even close to "In Design"...
I'd hardly call the people who wrote it "lazy programmers".

[Tralfaz]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 10:35:21 -0600, GreyCloud babble inanely:

> I'm an idiot and a liar.

So tell the world something we don't already know.

[GreyCloud]

[GreyCloud]

I know you are an idiot and liar... just typical of linturds lieing for
lienux.

[GreyCloud]

Which it appears that MS is profiting on the Android market somehow.

And whose handle are you holding again?

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, Tralfaz belched this bit o' wisdom:

> On Sat, 18 May 2013 10:35:21 -0600, GreyCloud babble inanely:
>
>> I'm an idiot and a liar.
>
> So tell the world something we don't already know.

It's the old "Rip van Winkle" troll. Old man wakes up and thinks
Linux distros are just like they were a decade ago.

--
Do you realize the pain the industry went through while the IBM PC was
limited to 640K? The machine was going to be 512K at one point, and we kept
pushing it up. I never said that statement — I said the opposite of that.
-- Bill Gates, "Gates talks" U.S. News & World Report (20 August 2001)

[Mark S Bilk]

On May 18, 9:35 am, GreyCloud <m...@cumulus.com> wrote:
> On 5/18/2013 6:28 AM, Jim Gresham wrote:

> > ...

> > Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me
> > returning to windows, even if I could do it without paying
> > for windows? If a good case can not be made, then why
> > would an average home computer user want to use windows
> > rather than linux?

> Easy, because there isn't anything that linux can do better
> than windows,

I already mentioned, in the second post of this thread, that
Linux can provide named virtual desktops, which can be very
useful, especially to power users. Windows does not have
this feature. So Greycloud is lying.

> and on one point, if you are in the U.S. and just installing
> your distro as stock, you won't be able to play any of your
> dvds you bought at the store. And if you want to get it to
> work... good luck on your scavenger hunt. You are going to
> run into lib dependency hell. Why go back to an old system
> instead of going with a modern system?

Greycloud made the same claim back on May 6. I had suggested
using OpenSuse Linux.

On May 6, 7:58 pm, GreyCloud <m...@cumulus.com> wrote:
> ...
> Of course if you get it in the USA, you won't be able to play
> any of your dvds as is. You still have to go on a scavenger
> hunt to find not only libdvdcss you also have to hunt down
> several more libs and the wincodecs.

I responded to his post:

"I asked in Suse IRC and immediately got this answer --
no scavenger hunt needed:

"msb: that http://opensuse-guide.org/repo/12.3/ works if you
add it in software repositories"

So Greycloud lied a second time.

[Mark S Bilk]

On May 18, 8:06 am, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 5/18/13 5:43 AM, "Mark S Bilk" <m...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:
> > On May 18, 5:28 am, "Jim Gresham" <gres...@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
> >> I run linux, mint 14, and have no problems with it to speak of.

> >> ...

> >> Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me
> >> returning to windows, even if I could do it without paying
> >> for windows? If a good case can not be made, then why
> >> would an average home computer user want to use windows
> >> rather than linux?

> > In a case like yours, which matches the majority of users,
> > Linux is more reliable, less expensive (zero cost), and
> > if a good distro and desktop environment are chosen, like
> > OpenSuse and KDE3, or *buntu and TrinityDesktopEnvironment,
> > provides some very useful additional features, like multiple
> > virtual desktops. Maybe XFCE would do the same.
>
> > The only reason why the average person uses Windows
> > is Microsoft's coercive deals with computer vendors,
> > resulting in Windows being preinstalled, and its ubiquitous
> > anti-Linux propaganda:
>
> There is no evidence of such "deal". You are making things
> up again, Bilk. You claim I am "attacking" you when I point
> out your baseless claims... but the claim you make is clearly
> false given how computer venders *do* offer systems without
> Windows. What you say implies they could not do so. Your
> claim is demonstrably inaccurate.
>
> This does not mean you are being attacked - this means it
> is being noted you are pushing clearly false information
> which is being corrected. Do you understand the difference?

Snit Michael Glasser lies by omission here, and then gets
holier-than-thou and lies about me. He omitted the link I gave
in my post:

> > http://cosmicpenguin.com/linux/MICROSOFTS_WAR_AGAINST_LINUX.html

That page, in addition to lots of other related material, says:

"MICROSOFT'S SECRET WINDOWS VENDOR LICENSE FORBIDS SALE OF
DUAL-BOOT COMPUTERS

"Using a secret license which Microsoft forces computer
manufacturers to sign in order to sell Windows on their
machines, Microsoft prevents any other OS from being sold on
any computer that has Windows on it. Since most people only
know about Windows, and therefore want it on their computer(s),
very few computers can be sold with Linux on them. Dual-booting
was forbidden by Microsoft. The only way people could use Linux
was to install it themselves, which most computer-naive people
wouldn't do.

"http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/OEM_hit_list

"http://www.birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/

"Microsoft claims to have ended this restriction in 2006."

The techrights page is titled "OEM hit list", which has links
to pages and documents about various operations by Microsoft
to prevent vendors from selling computers pre-installed with
Linux or Windows plus Linux. Quoting from the page:

"Opinion: 'It's Microsoft's "watch list" of OEMs and ISVs,
so they can target those who stray from Windows, with their
usual racketeering methods. The goal is 100% market saturation
of pre-installed systems, and the /method/ is intimidation and
blackmail, specifically - the threat of revoking their right
to distribute Windows systems if they support anything other
than Windows (via secret MoU signed under NDA). Since the DOJ
judgement, the /new/ threat is a reduction of volume discounts
on licenses, which then reduces the OEMs competitiveness. New
method, same racketeering."

A computer with pre-installed dual-boot Windows and Linux would
be very advantageous to users. But if such are offered they are
very rare. With the agreements between Microsoft and vendors
always being secret, it's certainly possible that Microsoft
forbids this still.

[GreyCloud]

[GreyCloud]

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 7:06 AM, in article
8c574ae4-2d8f-4b5f...@g5g2000pbp.googlegroups.com, "Mark S

What that page says is not relevant.

Facts are relevant.

And the fact is: OEMs can and *do* sell computers without Windows and *with*
other OSs. They do. This is simply a fact.

So when you claim MS somehow prevents this, you are making claims which are
contrary to known facts. Your claims of some "secret license" that forbids
what we know is happening is nonsense we directly know to be false.

Get it yet? I use evidence and data and facts... not your fiction filled
website of which you are, based on your own "logic" paid by the Underground
Marshmallow People to push lies.

Also: notice how you changed the name of the thread... the very thing you
whine about others doing.

It seems important to you that I not snip your following nonsense. OK. I
will not snip it. But let us keep in mind it is compete and utter fictional
nonsense with no value, other than to show how delusional you are.

Oh, and you also move goal posts to selling computers without Windows to
selling dual boot computers. You move goal posts a lot.

--
"There's a mountain of evidence that I've committed forgeries."
- Brad cc Wiggins

[7]

Mark S Bilk wrote:


> Greycloud made the same claim

Greyclod?

Do you mean sock greyclod that gets a good pounding from snit
with his hand up its ass?

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 6:22 AM, in article
c97539a1-e607-4290...@fq2g2000pbb.googlegroups.com, "Mark S

Bilk" <ma...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:

> On May 18, 9:35 am, GreyCloud <m...@cumulus.com> wrote:
>> On 5/18/2013 6:28 AM, Jim Gresham wrote:
>>> ...
>>> Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me
>>> returning to windows, even if I could do it without paying
>>> for windows? If a good case can not be made, then why
>>> would an average home computer user want to use windows
>>> rather than linux?
>
>> Easy, because there isn't anything that linux can do better
>> than windows,
>
> I already mentioned, in the second post of this thread, that
> Linux can provide named virtual desktops, which can be very
> useful, especially to power users. Windows does not have
> this feature. So Greycloud is lying.

I would agree with you that the virtual desktop solutions of Linux can be
great for some people. I think they also can be a source of confusion for
many and the way they are handled is sometimes a detriment to efficiency, so
it is a mixed bag. Still, it is an option and the options on desktop Linux
give many choices. I think this is a good thing.

OS X offers yet another choice by default - one that I think is a good mix
between offering the greater capabilities seen on desktop Linux and yet
still offering better ease of use with less need to configure what is on
which desktop. Still, OS X's implementation is flawed - for example, full
screen apps make a second actual screen mostly useless (except for floating
palettes from the program). This is silly. Rumor has it Apple is *finally*
going to fix this fairly soon but it has been an issue for far, far too
long. It should have been fixed long ago.

...


--
"It's legal. What more advocating need be done?" - Brad cc Wiggins

[Mark S Bilk]

On May 19, 10:38 am, 7

Yes, I believe that's the very one!

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 11:51 AM, in article
2649c1be-8726-4094...@g5g2000pbp.googlegroups.com, "Mark S

According to you, Bilk, it is psychopaths who make such insults. And here
you are showing your support for psychopathology. As noted, you are a
self-described psychopath.

* You seed Google to harm people's personal and business lives.
* You wish harm on others and even speak of wishing to kill others.
* You show deep disrespect for the victims of 9-11 by repeating
self-refuting and absurd claims about that event.
* You call people names and make accusations you cannot back.
* You claim to speak of your actions as being "truly evil"
* You admit you see yourself as someone who was hated by many of
the key people in your life: your parents, many of your teachers,
your school principal, the staff at the camp you went to, etc.
* You attack people with "evidence" you know is forged and dishonest.
* You make baseless accusations of MS having "secret contracts" to
prevent OEMs from selling machines they are known to sell!
* You make baseless accusations of people in COLA being paid by
Microsoft even though the very idea is absurd.
* You defend the idea that public school students should be put
into abusive situations by having porn, including child porn,
be completely uncensored in the schools.
* You avoid and even snip content you do not have honest answers to.

Seek help, Bilk. Really. You need to see a professional.



--
Proof Mark Bilk's http://cosmicpenguin.com/911/ is nothing but silly
fiction: <http://bit.ly/Y741mf>.
Using Bilk's own "logic" he posts his lies because the Underground
Marshmallow People pay him to.

[Mark S Bilk]

On May 19, 11:03 am, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 5/19/13 6:22 AM, in article

> c97539a1-e607-4290-9ca6-5ffd04d80...@fq2g2000pbb.googlegroups.com, "Mark S Bilk" <m...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:
> > On May 18, 9:35 am, GreyCloud <m...@cumulus.com> wrote:
> >> On 5/18/2013 6:28 AM, Jim Gresham wrote:
> >>> ...
> >>> Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like
> >>> me returning to windows, even if I could do it without
> >>> paying for windows? If a good case can not be made,
> >>> then why would an average home computer user want to use
> >>> windows rather than linux?
>
> >> Easy, because there isn't anything that linux can do better
> >> than windows,
>
> > I already mentioned, in the second post of this thread,
> > that Linux can provide named virtual desktops, which can
> > be very useful, especially to power users. Windows does
> > not have this feature. So Greycloud is lying.
>
> I would agree with you that the virtual desktop solutions of
> Linux can be great for some people. I think they also can be
> a source of confusion for many and the way they are handled
> is sometimes a detriment to efficiency, so it is a mixed bag.

KDE3/Trinity uses a desktop-switcher applet in the panel that
appears at the bottom of each desktop (in my setup) and also
contains clock, notifiers, and icons for frequently used
functions like main menu and terminal window (konsole).
The applet has a button containing the name of each desktop.
A name is easily changed by right-clicking its button.

If anyone can think of a more efficient way to select the
desired desktop I'd sure like to hear it.

As to affecting CPU/execution efficiency, switching between
desktops is instantaneous on my old dual-core AMD 5200,
which I run in 32bit.

[GreyCloud]

You mean that snit has this ng pwned. Guffaw!!!

So, who has their hand up your ass, sock puppet?

[GreyCloud]

Guffaw!! You'd believe anything, Cuckoo.

[GreyCloud]

Guffaw!!! No such thing.

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 12:01 PM, in article
ca0e34ab-27fb-48f0...@z10g2000pbn.googlegroups.com, "Mark S

Mission Control works well with OS X, though I think it would be better if
you could name the desktops and if you could have an item in the menu that
allowed you to switch to them (there are third party add-ons that do allow
for this, but I think it should be built in). The UI would be trivial - just
have it where you can go to Mission Control and right-click the name of the
desktop and be given the option to edit the name... and also have it in the
System Preferences (and perhaps allow for it when you hover over the name in
Mission Control).

Still, the tying together of virtual desktops with the Dashboard (a screen
with widgets) and applications put into a full-screen mode (where they have
their own desktop) makes a lot of sense... it is a good balance between the
user having a lot of power and still being easy to use. I have not seen a
better solution for the general user than this - though it is limiting for
some users, especially those who have become dependant on the virtual
desktop solutions found on Linux. OS X does lack choice there (at least by
default - again there are third party solutions to extend the capabilities).

Desktop Linux users, on the other hand, tend to use virtual desktops more
because of the lack of most programs being able to remain open without
having a window open, the lack of the ability to "hide" programs, and other
window management options which are the norm on OS X.

This is not to say that OS X is perfect with windows management. Why don't
they add "Snap" like features by default... or at least have windows "snap"
to the sides of others, at least as an option. Seems it would not add any
complexity and would allow for easier use... all very "Apple".

> As to affecting CPU/execution efficiency, switching between
> desktops is instantaneous on my old dual-core AMD 5200,
> which I run in 32bit.

It is not the CPU overhead which causes problems... it is the cognitive
overhead of having so many different screens which are out of sight. This is
beneficial for grouping of windows but it also comes with a price.

--
Personally, [Stallman's] "weirdness" does not bother me (as long as I
don't have to be near him) but his extremist positions do bother me.
-- Lusotec

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 12:07 PM, in article
W-udnSLqRqVzvwTM...@bresnan.com, "GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com>
wrote:

I would like to hear Bilk speak of the downsides of his use of virtual
desktops. See if he understands the pros *and* the cons. I doubt he does.



--
Summary of cc's statistical BS: <http://tinyurl.com/7rwazxw>
Details on cc's "outliers" BS: <http://tinyurl.com/84r3ypq>
More on cc's ignorance about outliers: <http://tinyurl.com/7vyhttc>
Four method compared to cc's absurd claims: <http://tinyurl.com/7efkuzm>
Details on cc's sigma and R^2 BS: <http://tinyurl.com/7vambev>

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:

> Mark S Bilk wrote:
>
>> Greycloud made the same claim
>
> Greyclod?

I prefer "GreyClot".

--
"Ask not what A Group of Employees can do for you. But ask what can
All Employees do for A Group of Employees."
-- Mike Dennison

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 2:06 PM, in article knbek8$aug$1...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"

<OFee...@teleworm.us> wrote:

> After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> Mark S Bilk wrote:
>>
>>> Greycloud made the same claim
>>
>> Greyclod?
>
> I prefer "GreyClot".

It is not surprising that you have preferred derogatory terms for others.

I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to topics dealing with technology and
not put others down. Perhaps you can work to rise to that level.


--
Questions about the Skype call between cc, Onion Knight, and myself:
1) Why did cc have no recollection of the "outliers" files I showed him?
2) Why did cc have no recollection of the standard deviation video?
3) Why can't cc provide the Excel file he gave his word he would share?

[Mark S Bilk]

On May 19, 2:20 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 5/19/13 2:06 PM, in article knbek8$au...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"

> <OFeem1...@teleworm.us> wrote:
> > After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:
> >> Mark S Bilk wrote:
> >>> Greycloud made the same claim
>
> >> Greyclod?
>
> > I prefer "GreyClot".
>
> It is not surprising that you have preferred derogatory
> terms for others.

Chris has derogatory terms for anti-Linux propagandists
that have invaded COLA.

> I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to topics dealing with
> technology and not put others down. Perhaps you can work to
> rise to that level.

Snit is holier-than-thou.

But then two lines later, Snit attacks somebody called "cc",
with whom Snit apparently had some dispute that nobody else
in the world knows or cares about:

> Questions about the Skype call between cc, Onion Knight,
> and myself:

> 1) Why did cc have no recollection of the "outliers" files
> I showed him?

> 2) Why did cc have no recollection of the standard deviation
> video?

> 3) Why can't cc provide the Excel file he gave his word he
> would share?

Snit keeps attacking this guy. This isn't the first time he's
done it. But Snit won't admit it. Snit will say that he's
"just stating facts" or some such excuse.

Snit never admits that he's attacking anyone, but in fact Snit
posts far more attacks against people than anybody else here.

He just won't admit it.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, Mark S Bilk belched this bit o' wisdom:

> On May 19, 2:20 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 5/19/13 2:06 PM, in article knbek8$au...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"
>> <OFeem1...@teleworm.us> wrote:
>> > After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:
>> >> Mark S Bilk wrote:
>> >>> Greycloud made the same claim
>>
>> >> Greyclod?
>>
>> > I prefer "GreyClot".
>>
>> It is not surprising that you have preferred derogatory
>> terms for others.

Well, for Mr. Glasser, "Snit" seems quite derogatory enough.

> Chris has derogatory terms for anti-Linux propagandists
> that have invaded COLA.
>
>> I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to topics dealing with
>> technology and not put others down.

Bullshit.

> Snit never admits that he's attacking anyone, but in fact Snit
> posts far more attacks against people than anybody else here.
>
> He just won't admit it.

Of course he won't. He's a bad person.

--
The merger of Novell-Wordperfect and acquisition of Quattro Pro by Novell
changes our competitive framework substantially. The already intensely
competitive software business has become even more competitive. Novell has
adopted our strategy of having a broad product line and offering integration
between products as a key benefit just as Lotus has through their acquisitions
and Notes strategy. Its great to have people following our strategy as long as
we execute a lot better than they do.
-- Bill Gates, March 1994.

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 3:02 PM, in article
d954dcd4-91b6-4810...@ua8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com, "Mark S

Bilk" <ma...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:

> On May 19, 2:20 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 5/19/13 2:06 PM, in article knbek8$au...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"
>> <OFeem1...@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>> After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:
>>>> Mark S Bilk wrote:
>>>>> Greycloud made the same claim
>>
>>>> Greyclod?
>>
>>> I prefer "GreyClot".
>>
>> It is not surprising that you have preferred derogatory
>> terms for others.
>
> Chris has derogatory terms for anti-Linux propagandists
> that have invaded COLA.

Notice your changing of goal posts.

1) I note how it is not surprising you have preferred derogatory terms for
others. This is, of course, something one would expect from the type people
you refer to as "psychopaths".

2) You, not wanting to acknowledge what your own behavior says about
yourself, move the goal posts and make accusations about other people and
claim they are "invading COLA"... these types of accusations are what one
would expect from the type people you refer to as "psychopaths".

Again: you repeatedly act in a way that you have described as evidence of
your being a "psychopath". When faced with this you snip or otherwise avoid
the topic.

>> I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to topics dealing with
>> technology and not put others down. Perhaps you can work to
>> rise to that level.
>
> Snit is holier-than-thou.

I simply do not sink to the types of behaviors you do, or at least do so
only rarely.

> But then two lines later, Snit attacks somebody called "cc",
> with whom Snit apparently had some dispute that nobody else
> in the world knows or cares about:

I did not attack Brad cc Wiggins, I asked him some questions about
accusations he has made. To date he has not been able to answer these
questions. But, of note, I do not call him names nor accuse him of any wrong
doing - I merely note his inability to recollect some information... a
lacking on his part that seemed odd to me and is also tied to his complaints
that Onion Knight did not respond to questions he forgot to ask. It was a
very weird discussion and Brad cc Wiggins has never been able to explain
himself. Nor do I expect him to, but I am happy to offer him repeated
chances to prove me wrong and, frankly, I would like to be proved wrong.

>> Questions about the Skype call between cc, Onion Knight,
>> and myself:
>
>> 1) Why did cc have no recollection of the "outliers" files
>> I showed him?
>
>> 2) Why did cc have no recollection of the standard deviation
>> video?
>
>> 3) Why can't cc provide the Excel file he gave his word he
>> would share?
>
> Snit keeps attacking this guy.

Where is the attack? Do you think I do as you do and call him names or make
accusations about him "invading" COLA? You are the one who is demonstrating
how you make baseless attacks. You cannot show examples of my doing so, yet
you dishonestly claim I am.

Such dishonesty as you show there is yet another behavior you attribute to
the type people you refer to as "psychopaths".

As I have noted, you often refer to your own behavior as that of a
"psychopath". It is one of the reasons I have strongly encouraged you to
fine professional help (tied to your admission you feel you were hated by so
many key people in your life and your insulting fictions about the victims
of 9-11 which you truly seem to believe even though you cannot answer basic
questions about your claims).

> This isn't the first time he's done it. But Snit won't admit it. Snit will
> say that he's "just stating facts" or some such excuse.

You are the one making an accusation. You have the burden of proof to back
your accusations.

> Snit never admits that he's attacking anyone, but in fact Snit posts far more
> attacks against people than anybody else here.
>
> He just won't admit it.

See: more attacks from you - attacks you will *never* back. This is
completely predictable. Once again you exhibit behavior you attribute to the
type people you refer to as "psychopaths".


--
Brad cc Wiggins:
-----
Clearly, I don't understand what I read.
-----

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 3:29 PM, in article knbjhk$3tt$1...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"

<OFee...@teleworm.us> wrote:

> After swilling some grog, Mark S Bilk belched this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> On May 19, 2:20 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/19/13 2:06 PM, in article knbek8$au...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"
>>> <OFeem1...@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>>> After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>> Mark S Bilk wrote:
>>>>>> Greycloud made the same claim
>>>
>>>>> Greyclod?
>>>
>>>> I prefer "GreyClot".
>>>
>>> It is not surprising that you have preferred derogatory
>>> terms for others.
>
> Well, for Mr. Glasser, "Snit" seems quite derogatory enough.
>
>> Chris has derogatory terms for anti-Linux propagandists
>> that have invaded COLA.
>>
>>> I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to topics dealing with
>>> technology and not put others down.
>
> Bullshit.
>
>> Snit never admits that he's attacking anyone, but in fact Snit
>> posts far more attacks against people than anybody else here.
>>
>> He just won't admit it.
>
> Of course he won't. He's a bad person.

Notice the complete lack of content about technology... just attacks and
insults without any attempt to back them up.

These are the actions often seen by the COLA herd.


--
"It was probably the HEMI-DIMENSIONAL ALIENS that were following MJ-12
around and were attracted to the PROTATIONAL FIELD generated by your
spinning hard drive." - Mark S Bill

"Maybe I am that way because people kept telling me I was mentally ill. But
I never was. I just saw monsters. Them." - Mark S. Bilk

[William Poaster]

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> After swilling some grog, Mark S Bilk belched this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> On May 19, 2:20 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/19/13 2:06 PM, in article knbek8$au...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"
>>> <OFeem1...@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>> > After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:
>>> >> Mark S Bilk wrote:
>>> >>> Greycloud made the same claim
>>>
>>> >> Greyclod?
>>>
>>> > I prefer "GreyClot".
>>>
>>> It is not surprising that you have preferred derogatory
>>> terms for others.
>
> Well, for Mr. Glasser, "Snit" seems quite derogatory enough.
>
>> Chris has derogatory terms for anti-Linux propagandists
>> that have invaded COLA.
>>
>>> I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to topics dealing with
>>> technology and not put others down.
>
> Bullshit.

Man, he really *is* a deluded nut.

>> Snit never admits that he's attacking anyone, but in fact Snit
>> posts far more attacks against people than anybody else here.
>>
>> He just won't admit it.
>
> Of course he won't. He's a bad person.

He's a mental case, for sure.

--
We are Micro$oft of Borg. You may already be assimilated.

Linux is the scientific communityοΏ½s operating system of choice.
CERNοΏ½s Large Hadron Collider is controlled by Linux.
NASA and SpaceX ground stations use Linux.
DNA-sequencing lab technicians use Linux.
Really, for applications that require absolute stability,
which most scientific experiments are, Linux is the obvious choice.
http://tinyurl.com/d9ta82o

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 3:48 PM, in article
1f1o6a-...@user-1842.linux.individual.net, "William Poaster"

"It is absurd to punish anyone for having sex with someone of age 15 � it is
normal for Americans of age 15 to have sex." -- Richard Stallman

[philo]

On 05/19/2013 05:45 PM, Snit wrote:

>> Of course he won't. He's a bad person.
>
> Notice the complete lack of content about technology... just attacks and
> insults without any attempt to back them up.
>
> These are the actions often seen by the COLA herd.
>
>

I don't think he's posting here anymore...
haven't seen any posts from him in something like a year now...
OTOH: My news server may have him spammed out...which is fine with me.

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 5:14 PM, in article knbpm8$raa$3...@dont-email.me, "philo�ｿｽ"

His desperation to please others can be amusing.


--
"Maybe there is someone who considers it disgusting for a parrot to have sex
with a human. Or for a dolphin or tiger to have sex with a human. So what?
Others feel that all sex is disgusting." -- Richard Stallman

[philo]

On 05/19/2013 07:45 PM, Snit wrote:

>>>
>>
>> I don't think he's posting here anymore...
>> haven't seen any posts from him in something like a year now...
>> OTOH: My news server may have him spammed out...which is fine with me.
>
> His desperation to please others can be amusing.
>
>

So can blowing one's head off with a shotgun like Wendy O. Williams .


At least she was a lot better looking that all the false_Linux_advocates:


http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/21243269/Wendy+O+Williams+mohawkwendy.jpg

[Mark S Bilk]

On May 19, 3:45 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> "It was probably the HEMI-DIMENSIONAL ALIENS that were
> following MJ-12 around and were attracted to the PROTATIONAL
> FIELD generated by your spinning hard drive." - Mark S Bill

20 Quatloos to the first poster who correctly identifies
the eminent Usenet personage whose style I was emulating.

And Glasser, please spell my name correctly!

[GreyCloud]

[GreyCloud]

On 5/19/2013 4:02 PM, Mark S Bilk wrote:
> On May 19, 2:20 pm, Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 5/19/13 2:06 PM, in article knbek8$au...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"
>> <OFeem1...@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>> After swilling some grog, 7 belched this bit o' wisdom:
>>>> Mark S Bilk wrote:
>>>>> Greycloud made the same claim
>>
>>>> Greyclod?
>>
>>> I prefer "GreyClot".
>>
>> It is not surprising that you have preferred derogatory
>> terms for others.
>
> Chris has derogatory terms for anti-Linux propagandists
> that have invaded COLA.

You are nuts. This is public.
No one invaded anything. It is you cuckoos that are shitting in your
own nests.

[GreyCloud]

[GreyCloud]

[Snit]

On 5/19/13 6:47 PM, in article GpednTB5ispdHQTM...@bresnan.com,

"GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote:


>>>>> Greyclod?
>>>
>>>> I prefer "GreyClot".
>>>
>>> It is not surprising that you have preferred derogatory
>>> terms for others.
>>
>> Chris has derogatory terms for anti-Linux propagandists
>> that have invaded COLA.
>
> You are nuts. This is public.
> No one invaded anything. It is you cuckoos that are shitting in your
> own nests.

One of the delusions Bilk claims to have is that he has some sort of
ownership over COLA and that people who question his claims or note his
accusations are unsupported are somehow "invading" his forum. He and those
he approves of have some special connection to it. Just bizarre.

He has many bizarre behaviors he engages in to, apparently, move the goal
posts away from his own claims. In this case, with his bizarre claim of
implied ownership (perhaps singularly or shared) of COLA, he will likely
never explain what the heck he is talking about. But I will give him a
chance:

Bilk, how is it that anyone is "invading" COLA, esp. people who use Linux
and speak well of it? And why do you keep working to change the topic away
from Linux, technology, or even your other favorite topics such as your 9-11
fantasies and instead push the conversations to try to be about people you
do not like or whom you fear?

It is odd behavior on your part - and, as noted, much of your behavior fits
very well into what you have deemed to be psychopathic behavior.

>>> I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to topics dealing with
>>> technology and not put others down. Perhaps you can work to
>>> rise to that level.
>>
>> Snit is holier-than-thou.

Bilk clearly thinks I am better than him... I do not sink to his level. This
he believes I am "holier" than he is.


--
"There are 'extremists' in the free software world, but that's one major
reason why I don't call what I do 'free software' any more. I don't want to
be associated with the people for whom it's about exclusion and hatred."
-- Linus Torvalds

[chrisv]

> philthy philo wrote:
>>
>> Trying to force a philosophy down someone's throat is nuts.

Who is doing that, "philo", and what "philosophy" would that be? That
consumer's should have choice? That if a market gets so far out of
whack that people find themselves under the thumb of a single
corporation, that government regulation is required? Are anti-trust
laws part of some "anti freedom" philosophy, "philo'?

>> I use which ever operating system does the job best.

That's all anyone here expects or wants, "philo", *with the
assumption* that there is *real* choice in the market. And no, the
fact that you can obtain an alternative to "the standard" if you work
hard enough, or spend enough, is not real choice. No market come
function properly under such conditions.

--
"you have nothing to complain about. You just confirmed that it *IS*
possible to buy a computer without an OS." - trolling fsckwit
"Ezekiel"

[chrisv]

William Poaster wrote:

>>>> I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to topics dealing with
>>>> technology and not put others down.
>>
>> Bullshit.
>
>Man, he really *is* a deluded nut.

He's a worthless, attention-starved asshole, and a serial liar.

--
"Oh, speaking of the EXIF data silliness did you see Peter Köhlmann
looking for the EXIF data on Usenet messages ... that was just
frickin' hilarious..." - "Snit", lying shamelessly

[-hh]

On May 19, 9:22 am, Mark S Bilk <m...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:
>
> I already mentioned, in the second post of this thread, that
> Linux can provide named virtual desktops, which can be very
> useful, especially to power users.  Windows does not have
> this feature.

The OP made it quite clear that he's not a 'power user', so you've
pointed out an alleged "feature" which is not at all relevant to his
needs.

FYI, the simple/short answer to the OP's main question:

"If a good case can not be made, then why would an
average home computer user want to use windows
rather than linux?"

...is quite obvious:

Windows is typically sold as a turnkey product -
- which means that it that it's ready to get started with.

Windows is ubiquitous -
- which makes it easier to find supporting products or help for it.


AFAIC, Microsoft Windows is like a Ford Focus - - it's not the best
car out there, but you nevertheless can easily buy one anywhere, it's
never hard to find a random mechanic on the road who knows how to fix
Fords, and if you walk into any auto parts store, you'll always be
able to find replacement windshield wipers for it.


-hh

[Mark S Bilk]

On May 20, 6:53 am, -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> On May 19, 9:22 am, Mark S Bilk <m...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:
> > I already mentioned, in the second post of this thread, that
> > Linux can provide named virtual desktops, which can be very
> > useful, especially to power users. Windows does not have
> > this feature.
>
> The OP made it quite clear that he's not a 'power user',
> so you've pointed out an alleged "feature" which is not at
> all relevant to his needs.

hh, if you think it's only an "alleged feature", then talk
to all the Linux users who used to say it made KDE3 the
best DE in existence.

Also, hh, check your reading comprehension. I said it was
useful _especially_ to power users, not _only_ to them.

> FYI, the simple/short answer to the OP's main question:
>
> "If a good case can not be made, then why would an
> average home computer user want to use windows
> rather than linux?"
>
> ...is quite obvious:
>
> Windows is typically sold as a turnkey product -
> - which means that it that it's ready to get started with.

Yes, it is a turkey product, and has limited facilities
compared with Linux.

> Windows is ubiquitous -
> - which makes it easier to find supporting products or help for it.

With a good distro (like Suse), that's always easy --
just ask in IRC.

> AFAIC, Microsoft Windows is like a Ford Focus - - it's not
> the best car out there, but you nevertheless can easily buy
> one anywhere,

You can get Linux anywhere that you have a Net connection.

> it's never hard to find a random mechanic on the road who
> knows how to fix Fords, and if you walk into any auto parts
> store, you'll always be able to find replacement windshield
> wipers for it.

And with Windows you're almost sure to need someone to fix it.
Somehow Windows manages to gradually mess itself up, and need
periodic cleaning or even re-installation.

Once Linux is installed, it runs reliably for years. But, if
you do need help, just go to the distro's IRC channel.

[Snit]

On 5/20/13 5:48 AM, in article vm6kp8dheia3uc5ae...@4ax.com,

"chrisv" <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> William Poaster wrote:
>
>>>>> I, on the other hand, prefer to stick to topics dealing with
>>>>> technology and not put others down.
>>>
>>> Bullshit.
>>
>> Man, he really *is* a deluded nut.
>
> He's a worthless, attention-starved asshole, and a serial liar.

And the COLA "advocates" move goal posts again from a discussion that
included looking at Linux to their mindless, cult-like attacks.

Just as they do so often.


--
Bilk is a self-described psychopath who demonstrates a persecution complex
and claims to believe delusional stories about historic events. Yet he
denies the need to seek professional help for his problems. Very sad.

[-hh]

On May 20, 10:56 am, Mark S Bilk <m...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:
> On May 20, 6:53 am, -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 19, 9:22 am, Mark S Bilk <m...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:
> > > I already mentioned, in the second post of this thread, that
> > > Linux can provide named virtual desktops, which can be very
> > > useful, especially to power users.  Windows does not have
> > > this feature.
>
> > The OP made it quite clear that he's not a 'power user',
> > so you've pointed out an alleged "feature" which is not at
> > all relevant to his needs.
>
> hh, if you think it's only an "alleged feature", then talk
> to all the Linux users who used to say it made KDE3 the
> best DE in existence.

There's lots of features which can be great for a specific niche.
However, it does not logically follow that a niche strength is
universally good for all.

Because you failed to describe *what* kind of work *which* kind of
consumer was doing, you've failed to demonstrate any level of
relevance to the OP's needs.

> Also, hh, check your reading comprehension.  I said it was
> useful _especially_ to power users, not _only_ to them.

Your **allegation** - - again to a specific niche application/user
type. The explanation of how/why/etc it's a positive attribute -
either universally or specifically for the OP - remains utterly
absent.

You apparently love it? Got it! But you're not the OP, nor have you
demonstrated where you have _any_ parallels for it to have relevance
to the OP's case.

FWIW, I like bacon too ... and my mentioning of that is equally not
relevant to the OP's inquiry.

> > FYI, the simple/short answer to the OP's main question:
>
> >   "If a good case can not be made, then why would an
> >    average home computer user want to use windows
> >    rather than linux?"
>
> > ...is quite obvious:
>
> > Windows is typically sold as a turnkey product -
> > - which means that it that it's ready to get started with.
>
> Yes, it is a turkey product, and has limited facilities
> compared with Linux.

Bilk Logic Fail #3: availability is not a dependency on feature set.

> > Windows is ubiquitous -
> > - which makes it easier to find supporting products or help for it.
>
> With a good distro (like Suse), that's always easy --
> just ask in IRC.

"What's IRC?" <-- first question a novice will ask. Bilk FAIL #4.

> > AFAIC, Microsoft Windows is like a Ford Focus - - it's not
> > the best car out there, but you nevertheless can easily buy
> > one anywhere,
>
> You can get Linux anywhere that you have a Net connection.

#5: that's not turnkey. It also isn't an 800# Customer Service phone
call, either.

> > it's never hard to find a random mechanic on the road who
> > knows how to fix Fords, and if you walk into any auto parts
> > store, you'll always be able to find replacement windshield
> > wipers for it.
>
> And with Windows you're almost sure to need someone to fix it.

Which is why I used "Ford" in this analogy :-)

> Somehow Windows manages to gradually mess itself up,
> and need periodic cleaning or even re-installation.
>
> Once Linux is installed, it runs reliably for years.

Everything needs some level of maintenance - - witness the current
"Critical Linux exploit in the wild" thread that's elsewhere within
COLA today for Bilk Fail #6. The implications of this are for the
consumer to then consider how easy or hard a contender product is to
maintain. Windows has auto-updates that doesn't involve the DIY
hoops-jumping as is being presently described in this other current
thread.

>  But, if you do need help, just go to the distro's IRC channel.

*IF* a novice can find out what IRC is, for which they're likely end
up struggling with "help" that looks like this:

"GentooPenguin$ cd /usr/src/linux
GentooPenguin$ su -c "su - kernelwizard" kernelwizard$ mkdir /home/
kernelwizard/<latest-kernel>
kernelwizard$ zcat /proc/config.gz > /home/kernelwizard/<latest-
kernel>
kernelwizard$ make -j9 O=/home/kernelwizard/<latest-kernel> oldconfig
kernelwizard$ make -j9 O=/home/kernelwizard/<latest-kernel> bzImage
kernelwizard$ make -j9 O=/home/kernelwizard/<latest-kernel> modules
kernelwizard$ exit
GentooPenguin$ su -c "make -j9 O=/home/kernelwizard/<latest-kernel>
modules_install
GentooPenguin$ su -c "mount /boot"
GentooPenguin$ su -c "make -j9 O=/home/kernelwizard/<latest-kernel>
install
GentooPenguin$ su -c "(unset KBUILD_OUTPUT; genkernel --kernel-config=/
home/kernelwizard/<latest-kernel>/.config --splash=natural_gentoo --
splash-res=1366x768 --lvm initramfs)"
GentooPenguin$ su -c "grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg"
GentooPenguin$ su -c "umount /boot"
GentooPenguin$ su -c "reboot"

% sudo su -
# cd /usr/src/linux
# cp ../linux-<previous>/.config .
# make oldconfig
# make && make modules_install
# cp /boot/linux /boot/linux-prev
# cp arch/x86_64/boot/bzImage /boot/linux
# module-rebuild rebuild
# reboot"

Yes, the above has quotes because it was copied from that other
thread.

While a "Power User" might be comfortable with the above, most generic
(non-power-user-type) consumers would look at the above with abject
terror and run away as fast as they humanly can.

Good job Mark! You've just turned off another person to Linux by
giving them inappropriate and bad advice.

-hh

[Snit]

On 5/20/13 7:56 AM, in article
406f0b34-2b15-4d10...@oy9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com, "Mark S

Bilk" <ma...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:

> On May 20, 6:53 am, -hh <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>> On May 19, 9:22 am, Mark S Bilk <m...@cosmicpenguin.com> wrote:
>>> I already mentioned, in the second post of this thread, that
>>> Linux can provide named virtual desktops, which can be very
>>> useful, especially to power users. Windows does not have
>>> this feature.
>>
>> The OP made it quite clear that he's not a 'power user',
>> so you've pointed out an alleged "feature" which is not at
>> all relevant to his needs.
>
> hh, if you think it's only an "alleged feature", then talk
> to all the Linux users who used to say it made KDE3 the
> best DE in existence.

You missed the point - or are lying. The fact the feature exists is not in
question: the value to a general user is. Most users do not use virtual
desktops, esp. as presented in most Linux implementations. Even the OS X
implementation is generally used only as apps are made full screen, and many
users do not even do that (though in some cases that is because of the flaw
in the way that works with multiple monitors).

> Also, hh, check your reading comprehension. I said it was
> useful _especially_ to power users, not _only_ to them.

Virtual desktops is not of much use to most users.

>> FYI, the simple/short answer to the OP's main question:
>>
>> "If a good case can not be made, then why would an
>> average home computer user want to use windows
>> rather than linux?"
>>
>> ...is quite obvious:
>>
>> Windows is typically sold as a turnkey product -
>> - which means that it that it's ready to get started with.
>
> Yes, it is a turkey product, and has limited facilities
> compared with Linux.

It allows most people to do more and to do it more easily. Notice how well
it sells compared to Linux, and it is not free as Linux is.

>> Windows is ubiquitous -
>> - which makes it easier to find supporting products or help for it.
>
> With a good distro (like Suse), that's always easy --
> just ask in IRC.

Most users have no idea what IRC even is.

>> AFAIC, Microsoft Windows is like a Ford Focus - - it's not
>> the best car out there, but you nevertheless can easily buy
>> one anywhere,
>
> You can get Linux anywhere that you have a Net connection.

And yet only a very small percentage of people do. You can also buy Linux
pre-installed on computers, which disproves the idea that there are secret
deals preventing this. But you lie about such deals existing anyway.

>> it's never hard to find a random mechanic on the road who
>> knows how to fix Fords, and if you walk into any auto parts
>> store, you'll always be able to find replacement windshield
>> wipers for it.
>
> And with Windows you're almost sure to need someone to fix it.

With any complex tool you are likely to sometimes need knowledge or
professional assistance. This is true of Windows, Linux, and even OS X.

> Somehow Windows manages to gradually mess itself up, and need
> periodic cleaning or even re-installation.

This is not true... at least not any more true than it is for other OSs.

> Once Linux is installed, it runs reliably for years. But, if
> you do need help, just go to the distro's IRC channel.

I would like to see you show stats which indicate Linux runs longer without
re-installation than does Windows or OS X.

You will not, of course, ever produce any such stats from anything coming
close to a reliable source. You do not even get the concept as far as I can
tell.

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-05-18, Jim Gresham <gre...@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
[deletia]

> Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me returning
> to windows, even if I could do it without paying for windows?
>

> If a good case can not be made, then why would an average home
> computer user want to use windows rather than linux?

<insert name of proprietary software that only runs under windows>

>
> By the way, I am sending this to COLA because
> comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy seems not to be used, and this place
> seems to be where both camps slug it out.
>

For the most part "average home computer users" don't do enough with
their machines to warrant a Microsoft fixation. They don't use $600
professional tools of any sort. They do basic things for which there are
ample alternatives on other platforms.

Just the other day, I weaned one of my biggest Microsoft problem
children off of msoffice.

--

Apple: Being able to install Firefox or VLC makes you a power user. |||
/ | \

[GreyCloud]

[GreyCloud]

I'm still wondering when I'll get paid by MS, as Bilk the cuckoo claims
we are trolling for them.

[GreyCloud]

On 5/20/2013 11:07 AM, JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2013-05-18, Jim Gresham <gre...@Safe-mail.net> wrote:
> [deletia]
>> Can any windows advocate make a case for someone like me returning
>> to windows, even if I could do it without paying for windows?
>>
>> If a good case can not be made, then why would an average home
>> computer user want to use windows rather than linux?
>
> <insert name of proprietary software that only runs under windows>
>
>>
>> By the way, I am sending this to COLA because
>> comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy seems not to be used, and this place
>> seems to be where both camps slug it out.
>>
>
> For the most part "average home computer users" don't do enough with
> their machines to warrant a Microsoft fixation. They don't use $600
> professional tools of any sort. They do basic things for which there are
> ample alternatives on other platforms.

They buy a PC that will do the job as cheap as possible... and guess what?

It has Windows installed on that PC. All the stores do business that
way. Are you going to go outside of each store with a cardboard placard
denouncing MS?

[Snit]

On 5/20/13 10:19 AM, in article
G_mdnYZ0Cf28xgfM...@bresnan.com, "GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com>
wrote:

It is just another example of Bilk flat out making things up and pushing
them as facts... just as he does with his 9-11 fictions.

He is a self-described psychopath. I sincerely wish he would go find some
professional help and my offer to assist him in doing so is sincere. I would
be happy to do so.


--
> As for Stallman, he is a repulsive person by any standard of decency.
... standard of decency or hygiene.
-- Lusotec