Writing a book on Linux for students, suggestions please
RyanMcCoskrie
bracket don't actually have any technical
knowledge beyond text messaging and web browsing.
I suppose most usenetters already know this sort of thing but many
people fail to realise that and assume
that growing up with computers in the home makes people instant
technicians. Growing up with cars doesn't
make a person a motor mechanic.
Any way with the above in mind I intend on writing a book on Linux for
students in high school and university
with KUbuntu as a case study.
I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets getting in
my way but it should do nicely as an
example of something that beginners can use.
Suggestions on what to include any one?
7
http://www.livecdlist.com - a place to get livecds
http://www.distrowatch.com - lots of distros in detail and where to get it
http://www.linuxquestions.org - a place to get all the answers
http://www.linuxdevices.com - embedded linux news - some 3 million+ embedded
Linux gadgets sold PER DAY at the moment.
http://lxer.com - news - general
http://www.tllts.org - podcasts
http://www.gnu.org - where the ideals begin - free as in freedom not price
http://sourceforge.net - where to get tons of free as in freedom
applications code
Loads of other stuff - just google for it.
Homer
> I intend on writing a book on Linux for students in high school and
> university with KUbuntu as a case study.
Well "case study" is a bit vague.
Do you intend to write:
a) ... A technical manual
b) ... A TCO report
c) ... An introduction to GNU/Linux
d) ... An analysis of the Free Software licensing model
e) ... A review of KUbuntu
f) ... A GNU/Linux vs Windows/Mac comparison
g) ... A platform migration viability study
h) ... A review of Free Software educational applications
i) ... A Free Software based SOA business proposal
j) ... A GNU/Linux systems administrator's handbook
k) ... A GNU/Linux user's guide
l) ... A comparison of GNU/Linux distributions
m) ... A GNU/Linux advocacy monograph
n) ... A biography of Canonical and Mark Shuttleworth
o) ... A chronicle of the evolution of the Ubuntu series of GNU/Linux
distributions: From Debian to KUbuntu
p) ... A KUbuntu fanzine
q) ... An "Everybody Loves KUbuntu" comic strip
r) ... A history report on the development of computer operating systems
s) ... The journal of a KUbuntu user: from novice to expert
t) ... 101 KUbuntu limericks
u) ... KUbuntu and the Grassy Knoll: A True Account
v) ... KUbuntu Foo: The Art of Enlightenment
w) ... A Stephen King horror novel, featuring KUbuntu as the villain
x) ... A Mills and Boon romance novel, featuring KUbuntu as the love
interest
y) ... The KUbuntu diet plan
z) ... All of the above
> I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets
Safety nets?
> Suggestions on what to include any one?
I suggest words formed into sentences, occasionally divided by
punctuation, then further constructed into paragraphs containing
references to the subject matter, with a detailed analysis of that
subject matter organised into chapters, and finally ending with a
conclusion. Be sure to use your own words, and not those found elsewhere
such as in a dictionary, otherwise you may be found guilty of copyright
violation - an offence punishable by death in certain states of the USA.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It
| is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." ~ William
| Pitt the Younger
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
07:39:53 up 74 days, 15:22, 5 users, load average: 4.14, 4.04, 4.02
Peter Köhlmann
< snip bullshit about writing a book about a subject the author knows
nothing about >
Hi flatfish
--
To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it.
To mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it.
The Lost Packet
> RyanMcCoskrie wrote:
>
> < snip bullshit about writing a book about a subject the author knows
> nothing about >
>
> Hi flatfish
yeah I noticed the timing as well... one "leaves", another starts
posting hours later...
--
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- Don't sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things.
- Rice: 1.4 billion Chinese can't all be wrong.
- I'm dreaming of a better world where chickens can cross the road and
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- If you can make a cheesecake you can install a Linux driver from source.
- Don't listen to the do-gooders, condoms are useless. They split,
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*#* Signoff: labo-rat (find / -name \*yourbase\* -exec chown us:us {} \;)
Terry Porter
Verily I say unto thee, that RyanMcCoskrie spake thusly:
> I intend on writing a book on Linux for students in high school and
> university with KUbuntu as a case study.
Well "case study" is a bit vague.
<snip excellent questions>
>> Suggestions on what to include any one?
>
> I suggest words formed into sentences, occasionally divided by
> punctuation, then further constructed into paragraphs containing
> references to the subject matter, with a detailed analysis of that
> subject matter organised into chapters, and finally ending with a
> conclusion. Be sure to use your own words, and not those found elsewhere
> such as in a dictionary, otherwise you may be found guilty of copyright
> violation - an offence punishable by death in certain states of the USA.
>
Classic :)
--
If we wish to reduce our ignorance, there are people we will
indeed listen to. Trolls are not among those people, as trolls, more or
less by definition, *promote* ignorance.
Kelsey Bjarnason, C.O.L.A. 2008
William Poaster
trolls, The Lost Packet was heard to say:
> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> RyanMcCoskrie wrote:
>>
>> < snip bullshit about writing a book about a subject the author knows
>> nothing about >
>>
>> Hi flatfish
>
> yeah I noticed the timing as well... one "leaves", another starts posting
> hours later...
I think this guy's genuine, he has a posting history & his last posts as
recent as Dec 08:
Peter Köhlmann
As if flatfish hasn't done identity theft numerous times.
*This* "RyanMcCoskrie" has a different posting style and posts from a
different ISP.
The other "RyanMcCoskrie" posts from linux and talks about KDE on KDE
forums, for example.
*This* "RyanMcCoskrie" posts from windows and blubbers strange things
like "I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets getting
in my way but it should do nicely as an
example of something that beginners can use."
What the heck is he talking about?
I am fairly certain flatfish Gary Stewart is at it again
William Poaster
trolls, Peter Köhlmann was heard to say:
Well it's true he does do ID theft.
I didn't see the original post, but did a quick google search. Usually
flatfish pinches some name that hasn't posted in a long time. If he's
started thieving more recent names of people who have nothing to do with
COLA, but who are *still* posting to forums etc, then he really is a
desperate insane troll.
The Lost Packet
sig material! May I?
Tim Smith
Peter Köhlmann <peter.k...@arcor.de> wrote:
> *This* "RyanMcCoskrie" posts from windows and blubbers strange things
> like "I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets getting
> in my way but it should do nicely as an
> example of something that beginners can use."
>
> What the heck is he talking about?
Some users of other distributions view *buntu as being for beginners,
with Gentoo and Slackware and the like being what the worthy users use.
He sounds like one of those--they write things like what you've quoted
above.
--
--Tim Smith
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
Tim needs a new Troll-o-dex.
--
If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save
you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not
bring forth will destroy you.
-- Jesus, "Gnostic Gospels" (Elaine Pagel)
Ryan McCoskrie
No, I was six KM's from home by bicycle when I posted so I used Google Groups at the library.
I have the misfortune to live in a rural area you see.
--
The computing field is always in need of new cliches.
-- Alan Perlis
Ryan McCoskrie
K. As I said it's on how to do more with a computer than simply browse the
web. What office suites are there on Linux is a must, Digikam is something
that I think could be a big hit with the sort of people who often go to
parties with (relatively) cheap digital cameras.
Another thing that I should have said that I intend on including is a
section of chapter long tutorials on things such as how to record your
band playing or edit a film.
I suppose what I have in mind is "computers for seniors" but near the other
end of the age spectrum.
>> I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets
>
> Safety nets?
Not even letting the person who installed it know the root password.
Yes I can get around this one quickly but the point is that it's there.
Roy Schestowitz
Hash: SHA1
____/ William Poaster on Monday 19 January 2009 10:57 : \____
I'm almost sure it's Gary et al.
- --
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | "Error, no keyboard - press F1 to continue"
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
run-level 5 Jan 15 09:01 last=S
http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
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Sinister Midget
There are a lot of hair triggers here.
One particular troll "leaves" a lot, and another nym turns up awhile
after. That troll is nearly always outed within a couple of posts with
close to 100% accuracy. S/H/It's conundrum is that s/h/it can't figure
out how s/h/it gets outed so quickly. So s/h/it tries different angles:
joke posts, pretend advocacy posts, multiple "experiences" with things
not working that maybe 1:10000 people actually experience any one of
and the odds of a single person having all of them being more to the
tune of 1:1000000000.
Unfortunately, there are bound to be a few false positives. Since the
troll "left" again not long ago, everybody watches for new nyms to pop
up that may be said troll with a new identity, but the same old troll
lines.
--
It is better to be beautiful than to be good, but it is better to be
good than to be ugly.
-- Oscar Wilde
Homer
> sig material! May I?
Hell yeah.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It
| is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." ~ William
| Pitt the Younger
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
20:12:19 up 75 days, 3:55, 4 users, load average: 0.06, 0.07, 0.02
Homer
>> c) ... An introduction to GNU/Linux
>> f) ... A GNU/Linux vs Windows/Mac comparison
>> k) ... A GNU/Linux user's guide
>> m) ... A GNU/Linux advocacy monograph
>> p) ... A KUbuntu fanzine
> I suppose what I have in mind is "computers for seniors" but near the
> other end of the age spectrum.
I recommend a combination of the above - with the primary emphasis on
"k)". As for the specific applications, that's your arbitrary choice.
I have my personal preferences, but they may not align well with your
goal (or audience). Perhaps you could do some research by asking some
of your intended audience to try a few different applications, noting
their reactions.
>>> I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets
>> Safety nets?
>
> Not even letting the person who installed it know the root password.
> Yes I can get around this one quickly but the point is that it's
> there.
Oh OK.
I'm not much of a fan of Ubuntu's sudo methodology either, nor Ubuntu
in general, frankly. But as you say, it's probably OK for your target
audience.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It
| is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." ~ William
| Pitt the Younger
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.25.11-60.fc8
20:35:36 up 75 days, 4:18, 4 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.00
The Lost Packet
> Verily I say unto thee, that The Lost Packet spake thusly:
>
>> sig material! May I?
>
> Hell yeah.
>
groovy! :)
--
TLP
- The following signature is encoded double-ROT-47. Unauthorised
duplication and/or decryption is a violation of the Digital Millennium
Copyright Act.
- Last night I played a blank tape at full volume. The mime next door
went nuts.
- No, I will not fix your computer.
- Thought: It must be a bitch to write your name in the snow in Arabic...
- Don't sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things.
- Rice: 1.4 billion Chinese can't all be wrong.
- I'm dreaming of a better world where chickens can cross the road and
not have their motives questioned!
- If you can make a cheesecake you can install a Linux driver from source.
- Don't listen to the do-gooders, condoms are useless. They split,
they leak and they burst. And the human stomach can't handle the impact
of two kilos of cocaine.
- Users who XNA their posts are admitting that their ramblings aren't
worth reading.
- (on Windows) You know why "last known good configuration" almost
never works? Because the last known good configuration was a blank disk.
- Sinister Midget, c.o.l.a. 15 Jan 2009
- Here's to our wives and sweethearts; may they never meet.
- (on writing) I suggest words formed into sentences, occasionally
divided by punctuation, then further constructed into paragraphs
containing references to the subject matter, with a detailed analysis of
that subject matter organised into chapters, and finally ending with a
conclusion. Be sure to use your own words, and not those found elsewhere
such as in a dictionary, otherwise you may be found guilty of copyright
violation - an offence punishable by death in certain states of the USA.
- Homer, c.o.l.a. 19 Jan 2009
Tim Smith
Ryan McCoskrie <ryan.mc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets
> >
> > Safety nets?
> Not even letting the person who installed it know the root password.
> Yes I can get around this one quickly but the point is that it's there.
Ubuntu *can't* give the root password to the person who installed it,
because Ubuntu doesn't even *have* a root password.
Unix and Unix-like systems (including Linux) are usually multiuser.
Think about the case where you want to have more than one person who can
administer a machine. Do you really want to have a root password that
each administrator knows? That's not very good from a security point of
view. It makes it harder to log administrative actions (a regulatory
requirement in some industries). It makes it harder to revoke
administrative access. It increases the chances that the password will
leak (if there are N administrators, you'll have at least N-1 who are
using a password they didn't pick, and might have to write down so as to
not forget).
--
--Tim Smith
Kelsey Bjarnason
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:06:32 +1300, Ryan McCoskrie wrote:
>>> I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets
>>
>> Safety nets?
> Not even letting the person who installed it know the root password.
Ubuntu *can't* give you the root password, because there *isn't* a root
password. Ubuntu uses sudo instead, as in sudo app_needing_root. If you
really want to bugger around, running umpteen things in a privileged
context, you could simply use sudo bash and run from a privileged shell,
or you could create a root password then log in as root (or su -) and
voila.
Ubuntu chose to make it both easy to do things needing privileges _and_
somewhat less likely to screw up, say by having an rm -r * go awry.
Their solution isn't perfect, but it's not bad, and if you really want to
go the other way, full root logins, it's trivial to accomplish.
So precisely *what* safety nets, *what* root password, etc, are you
saying you don't like in Ubuntu, as the item you listed simply doesn't
apply.
Hadron
This is of course rubbish.
It is trivial to provide root a password and forego using sudo.
Ditto, of course, with Debian.
For many things one DOES want to su in as root.
Peter Köhlmann
> Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjar...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> [snips]
>>
>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:06:32 +1300, Ryan McCoskrie wrote:
>>
>>>>> I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets
>>>>
>>>> Safety nets?
>>> Not even letting the person who installed it know the root password.
>>
>> Ubuntu *can't* give you the root password, because there *isn't* a root
>> password. Ubuntu uses sudo instead, as in sudo app_needing_root. If
>> you really want to bugger around, running umpteen things in a
>> privileged context, you could simply use sudo bash and run from a
>> privileged shell, or you could create a root password then log in as
>> root (or su -) and voila.
>>
>> Ubuntu chose to make it both easy to do things needing privileges _and_
>> somewhat less likely to screw up, say by having an rm -r * go awry.
>> Their solution isn't perfect, but it's not bad, and if you really want
>> to go the other way, full root logins, it's trivial to accomplish.
>>
>> So precisely *what* safety nets, *what* root password, etc, are you
>> saying you don't like in Ubuntu, as the item you listed simply doesn't
>> apply.
>
>
> This is of course rubbish.
No, it isn't
> It is trivial to provide root a password and forego using sudo.
Exactly what he said
> Ditto, of course, with Debian.
We're talking Ubuntu here. Don't attempt your thread hijackings
> For many things one DOES want to su in as root.
Irrelevant.
We are talking about the rubbish from "Ryan McCoskrie" here.
You know, that idiocy "I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the
safety nets". Sounds mightily fishy. And flat
So more than enough reasons for you to try to divert the thread
--
Microsoft: which revised Eula do you want to accept today?
The Lost Packet
in his defence, Unbuntu is a Debian derivative. Of course, it may or may
not have slightly different functionality, I don't know because I tried
the first release of Ubuntu and didn't like the customised interface.
Went back to SuSE. So I have no clue what's changed between the Debian
release and the current versions of *buntu. For someone who /does/ use
*buntu, I think this question should be directed and from there we can
establish the relevancy of Debian as Debian in this thread.
>> For many things one DOES want to su in as root.
>
> Irrelevant.
>
> We are talking about the rubbish from "Ryan McCoskrie" here.
> You know, that idiocy "I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the
> safety nets". Sounds mightily fishy. And flat
>
> So more than enough reasons for you to try to divert the thread
at Hadron (not "to", I don't talk "to" people who have lost all
credibility since post #1):
So Ubuntu hasn't had the SELinux kernel as an option at install time
since Hardy, right?
So Ubuntu, being a Linux kernel based platform, couldn't run on the
SELinux kernel from earlier versions - anyone wanting a hardened kernel
I'm assuming being at least technically capable and mentally equipped to
be able to apply the hardened kernel... right?
Read earlier posts by me explaining /why/ Linux is secure and NT
/isn't/. HINT: it has something to do with SELinux being at kernel level
and integrated into the kernel itself, mandatory access control with
privelige-ranked flow and process control and /no root user/, and NT
being this monolithic kernel that gives basic I/O functionality and
every process socket open by default, with everything else tacked on
with snot and spit and running at user level.
It should be painfully obvious to anyone with an IQ in the double digits
and above that one of these kernels is /insecure by design/, while the
other is hardened to the point where even with local access it's
practically impossible to fuck up. But then, some people just like to
live by a river in Egypt.
--
TLP
- The following signature is encoded double-ROT-47. Unauthorised
duplication and/or decryption is a violation of the Digital Millennium
Copyright Act.
- Last night I played a blank tape at full volume. The mime next door
went nuts.
- No, I will not fix your computer.
- Thought: It must be a bitch to write your name in the snow in Arabic...
- Don't sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things.
- Rice: 1.4 billion Chinese can't all be wrong.
- I'm dreaming of a better world where chickens can cross the road and
not have their motives questioned!
- If you can make a cheesecake you can install a Linux driver from source.
- Don't listen to the do-gooders, condoms are useless. They split,
they leak and they burst. And the human stomach can't handle the impact
of two kilos of cocaine.
- Users who XNA their Usenet posts are admitting that their ramblings
aren't worth reading.
- (on Windows) You know why "last known good configuration" almost
never works? Because the last known good configuration was a blank disk.
- Sinister Midget, c.o.l.a. 15 Jan 2009
- Here's to our wives and sweethearts; may they never meet.
- (on writing) I suggest words formed into sentences, occasionally
divided by punctuation, then further constructed into paragraphs
containing references to the subject matter, with a detailed analysis of
that subject matter organised into chapters, and finally ending with a
conclusion. Be sure to use your own words, and not those found elsewhere
such as in a dictionary, otherwise you may be found guilty of copyright
violation - an offence punishable by death in certain states of the USA.
- Homer, c.o.l.a. 19 Jan 2009
- Forget nicotine patches, they don't smoke for shit and you only fit
3 in a rizla. I'm back to my 5 lighters a day.
- my last ever attempt at a standalone Windows install, 2008.05.20
10:05 - "Please insert the disk labeled 'Microsoft Windows XP Service
Pack 2 CD' into Drive A." Now, where'd I put those sidecutters...?
Hadron
> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>> Hadron wrote:
>>
>>> Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjar...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> [snips]
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:06:32 +1300, Ryan McCoskrie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety nets
>>>>>> Safety nets?
>>>>> Not even letting the person who installed it know the root password.
>>>> Ubuntu *can't* give you the root password, because there *isn't* a root
>>>> password. Ubuntu uses sudo instead, as in sudo app_needing_root. If
>>>> you really want to bugger around, running umpteen things in a
>>>> privileged context, you could simply use sudo bash and run from a
>>>> privileged shell, or you could create a root password then log in as
>>>> root (or su -) and voila.
>>>>
>>>> Ubuntu chose to make it both easy to do things needing privileges _and_
>>>> somewhat less likely to screw up, say by having an rm -r * go awry.
>>>> Their solution isn't perfect, but it's not bad, and if you really want
>>>> to go the other way, full root logins, it's trivial to accomplish.
>>>>
>>>> So precisely *what* safety nets, *what* root password, etc, are you
>>>> saying you don't like in Ubuntu, as the item you listed simply doesn't
>>>> apply.
>>>
>>> This is of course rubbish.
>>
>> No, it isn't
Yes it is.
he said
,----
| >>>> Ubuntu *can't* give you the root password, because there *isn't* a root
| >>>> password.
`----
This is simply not true since you can assign a ROOT password. He even
acknowledges himself LATER that root can indeed have a password. So
there may WELL BE a root password. Sudo is NOT a "must use". It is a
recommendation.
When you tire of getting things wrong let me know.
I am still awaiting your apology where you attacked me for Halliwell's
mistakes about the Mafia ....
Chris Ahlstrom
this bit o' wisdom:
> It should be painfully obvious to anyone with an IQ in the double digits
> and above that one of these kernels is /insecure by design/, while the
> other is hardened to the point where even with local access it's
> practically impossible to fuck up. But then, some people just like to
> live by a river in Egypt.
Some people like to drive one, too.
Oh, wait, that's the Denali.
Kelsey Bjarnason
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:45:23 +0100, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> Hadron wrote:
>
>> Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjar...@gmail.com> writes:
>>> privileged shell, or you could create a root password then log in as
>>> root (or su -) and voila.
>> This is of course rubbish.
>
> No, it isn't
>
>> It is trivial to provide root a password and forego using sudo.
>
> Exactly what he said
In that line up there. You are, of course, talking to Hadron, so it's
not like you can expect sanity on the other end of the discussion.
>> For many things one DOES want to su in as root.
>
> Irrelevant.
Particularly as (thus far, at least) I've found nothing in Ubuntu which
needs su versus sudo. I have no idea what Hadron's usage patterns are,
but mine range from desktop to server cluster, managing servers for an
ISP, and I've not needed a root password on a *Ubuntu box in years. If,
indeed, ever, though ISTR there was one odd case, about the time of
Dapper, when I did.
> We are talking about the rubbish from "Ryan McCoskrie" here. You know,
> that idiocy "I'm not much of a *buntu fan because of all the safety
> nets". Sounds mightily fishy. And flat
He still hasn't explained what all these "safety nets" are that get in
his way.