2 years have passed...
DFS
software because the half-ass world of open source software can't produce
quality code.
=======================================
In early March 2005:
Kier: "The day will come when they are able to migrate it [Linux Format
production] over [to open source tools]. Then what will you whine about?"
DFS: "When that magical, mystical, majestical day comes, you be sure to tell
me.
Kier: "Oh believe me, I will. With enormous pleasure."
=======================================
Well? Kier must by now be a Zen master of delayed gratification.
How much longer do we have to wait, and how many more excuses do we have to
listen to? I guess Microsoft is to blame, somehow.
And open source is the revolution that's going to take down MS and closed
source software? I don't think so.
Robert Newson
> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and proprietary
> software because the half-ass world of open source software can't produce
> quality code.
Good job you didn't spot the half-ass produced code that runs under the
Macs, namely BSD OPEN SOURCE code.
Linonut
> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and proprietary
> software because the half-ass world of open source software can't produce
> quality code.
Objection, Your Honor! Drawing a conclusion!
Sustained. Mr. DFS, you will stick to the facts.
>=======================================
> In early March 2005:
>
> Kier: "The day will come when they are able to migrate it [Linux Format
> production] over [to open source tools]. Then what will you whine about?"
>
> DFS: "When that magical, mystical, majestical day comes, you be sure to tell
> me.
>
> Kier: "Oh believe me, I will. With enormous pleasure."
>=======================================
(Mental note: DFS has a long memory)
--
Windows XP is like a box of chocolates --
you never know when the steel bolts are going to spring out and
plunge straight through both cheeks.
Winston Eisenhart
.
.
.. ...
..:,,..
..,=,,,...=.
.ZI+=~::::=. .
.Z$?+=~::::~...
.7$I+==~~~~~..
. $I$I?==~=~~~.
.O7??+~::~=~~.
+O$III+?==~~=.
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O7I???==~~~~+
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,O$$7?===:===,
Z$7I7?+=++===.
. D77I???++=~=+.
.87I??++=~~~~+.
..=O7??+++~~:~~=.
. ..8ZI?+++=:::~~:.
. ,8$??+==~:::~~..
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7O7I+++=~~:::~=..
. 8$7????+~~:::~,
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..:DDO7I??I?+==~~~=Z7III??....~+=....
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I+?II?+=~~::=O+==+:~:~~,:,=7====:~~,:,:~=,,:,~,:,:~.
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..IO$7?~~~:~~=OZ7?+=+==~:::::?7?++=:~:::::~?~::~:::::~~+..
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.N8Z$I+++====?77I?+++=~:::::~==+=+==~~::::~~~~~~~::::~~==.
+NDZI++++===+??II???+=:::::~~~====+=~:::::~~~~~~~:::::~~=~
DND7??+=+===+????I??=~~~::~~:~~===+=~~:::::~~~~~~::::~~~==
DNDI?++=====+??II7I?+~~~:::::~=~==++~~:::::::~~~~~~~~~~~==.
DNOI?+===~===??I?$7?=~~:::::~~~===++~:::::::~~~=~~~~~~~~==.
.
7D87??======+I?7$$7+~~~:::~:::~~=+++=:~:::~~~~==~~~=~~==~=+.
.DD$I?+=====+I7$$ZI+~:~::::::~~==+++~~:~~~:~==+++=======~=+.
ZNO7??+++=+?I$ZZ$I+:~~:::::~~~==+===~~~~~~===+++++========.
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.~DD8$7IIII7$OOZ7+=~=~~~~~~~=+++??++=====++=+=+++====~==~:
.
=NN8Z$7$$ZO8O$I?++=~~====+++??I??+++=++++=+========~~=~
..ODN8OZZZZOO8Z7I???++++++++?????++++=++===========~==:
. NNNDOZZOOOOZ$$77II???????????++====+=========~====.
.~NNNDOZZZZ$$$777IIIIII??????+++===++============+.
.
.8DDD8OZZ$$$7777II?III?????+++==+=============+=.....
.?DDDDOZ$$$$$77IIIIIII???+++++=++===++=======+.
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. ..N88O88OZ$7777III???+++++++===~~~~~~~~~=..
..ND8OO8OZ$7777III??+++++==~~~~~~~~~~:~=~.
. IN88OOOOZ$77III???+++++===~~~~~~~~:::~=.
. .
NNOOZOZOZ$77II??++++====~~~~~~~~~:::~==..
.IN8OZZZZZ$77I????++=+=~~~~~~=~~~~::::~=..
. .
.ND8Z$$$Z$$7II???+++==~~~~~==~~~~::::~~=. .
Kelsey Bjarnason
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>> Kier: "The day will come when they are able to migrate it [Linux Format
>> production] over [to open source tools]. Then what will you whine about?"
>>
>> DFS: "When that magical, mystical, majestical day comes, you be sure to tell
>> me.
>>
>> Kier: "Oh believe me, I will. With enormous pleasure."
>>=======================================
>
> (Mental note: DFS has a long memory)
Makes up for all his other shortcomings?
--
Do not contact me at kbjar...@ncoldns.com
William Poaster
> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and
>> proprietary software because the half-ass world of open source software
>> can't produce quality code.
>
> Objection, Your Honor! Drawing a conclusion!
>
> Sustained. Mr. DFS, you will stick to the facts.
>
>>=======================================
>> In early March 2005:
>>
>> Kier: "The day will come when they are able to migrate it [Linux Format
>> production] over [to open source tools]. Then what will you whine
>> about?"
>>
>> DFS: "When that magical, mystical, majestical day comes, you be sure to
>> tell me.
>>
>> Kier: "Oh believe me, I will. With enormous pleasure."
>>=======================================
>
> (Mental note: DFS has a long memory)
You may also like to know, that ALL Future Publishing magazines are
produced on Macs. So *even* windoze mags are produced on Macs, "because
the half-ass world of M$ proprietry software can't produce quality code"
either.
--
Contrary to popular belief, the M$ trolls & shills
*can* tell the difference between their arse
& their elbow.
They can't talk out of their elbow.
peterwn
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
> > After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
> >> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and
> >> proprietary software because the half-ass world of open source software
> >> can't produce quality code.
>
> You may also like to know, that ALL Future Publishing magazines are
> produced on Macs. So *even* windoze mags are produced on Macs, "because
> the half-ass world of M$ proprietry software can't produce quality code"
> either.
>
Just because some magazine chooses to call itself a 'Linux' magazine
does not necessarily mean that it is a Linux magazine. For all one
knows it could be a M$ shill magazine, and some come pretty close to
that.
![[H]omer's profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWMQWyYwHeIwxhG3nGUeGWmLQD0R8TeZrvdWDiv5-2S_z3rHg=s40-c)
[H]omer
> [snips]
>
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>
>>> Kier: "The day will come when they are able to migrate it [Linux Format
>>> production] over [to open source tools]. Then what will you whine about?"
>>>
>>> DFS: "When that magical, mystical, majestical day comes, you be sure to tell
>>> me.
>>>
>>> Kier: "Oh believe me, I will. With enormous pleasure."
>>> =======================================
>> (Mental note: DFS has a long memory)
More likely he just spends an inordinate amount of time using the search
box in Google Groups, desperately searching for small fragments of
ammunition he can use to resurrect the Shill's flagging campaign.
> Makes up for all his other shortcomings?
No.
--
K.
http://slated.org - Slated, Rated & Blogged
.----
| "Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade
| Layer' when they go through our landfill sites" - Sian Berry, the
| Green Party.
`----
Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.19-1.2288.fc5
19:51:50 up 28 days, 7:17, 3 users, load average: 0.25, 0.29, 0.43
Kier
Care to name 'em? Linux Format certainly isn't - IMO it's the best Linux
mag around. Linux User and Developer comes secon, though it's a bit on the
high-brow side for me.
--
Kier
DFS
> On Mar 20, 7:14 am, William Poaster <w...@kubuntulinux110.eu> wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and
>>>> proprietary software because the half-ass world of open source
>>>> software can't produce quality code.
>>
>
>> You may also like to know, that ALL Future Publishing magazines are
>> produced on Macs. So *even* windoze mags are produced on Macs,
How do you know?
>> "because the half-ass world of M$ proprietry software can't produce
>> quality code" either.
In this case, like every other case, you're wrong. There are plenty of
Windows packages suitable for professional magazine layout/publishing (Adobe
InDesign, Quark Xpress, Corel Ventura). On the other hand, there is no OSS
crapware suitable for the job.
On top of which, the editors of the Windows mags of Future Publishing don't
make it a point to criticize competing OS's in *every single issue*, like
the immature weenie hypocrites at LXF do.
> Just because some magazine chooses to call itself a 'Linux' magazine
> does not necessarily mean that it is a Linux magazine. For all one
> knows it could be a M$ shill magazine, and some come pretty close to
> that.
You would have a point if the editors of Linux Format didn't deride Windows,
Mac and other proprietary software in every issue, calling it buggy,
bloated, sucks, etc.
ed
"DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and
> proprietary software because the half-ass world of open source
> software can't produce quality code.
still hosted on linux servers.
> =======================================
> In early March 2005:
>
> Kier: "The day will come when they are able to migrate it [Linux
> Format production] over [to open source tools]. Then what will you
> whine about?"
>
> DFS: "When that magical, mystical, majestical day comes, you be sure
> to tell me.
>
> Kier: "Oh believe me, I will. With enormous pleasure."
> =======================================
>
> Well? Kier must by now be a Zen master of delayed gratification.
>
> How much longer do we have to wait, and how many more excuses do we
> have to listen to? I guess Microsoft is to blame, somehow.
>
> And open source is the revolution that's going to take down MS and
> closed source software? I don't think so.
its certainly changed what the end user gets. if it were not for open
source you'd still be using shit like word 95 and ie5. open source
levels the playing field in such a great way that the customer can
demand greater things from software.
--
The 14.4 dialup to the trailer park is resetting because of a trailing
space in /etc/passwd. Netscape is blaming it on our equipment
Kelsey Bjarnason
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 20:10:48 +0000, Kier wrote:
> Care to name 'em? Linux Format certainly isn't - IMO it's the best Linux
> mag around. Linux User and Developer comes secon, though it's a bit on the
> high-brow side for me.
'Sides, there's always the obvious - that their existing data are in Mac
app formats, their existing staff are all Mac trained, etc. Even if Linux
offered superior apps, that doesn't necessarily mean that a jump is
inevitable - and if it happens at all, it's not likely to be immediate.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> Verily I say unto thee, that Kelsey Bjarnason spake thusly:
> > [snips]
> >
> > On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
> >
> >>> Kier: "The day will come when they are able to migrate it [Linux Format
> >>> production] over [to open source tools]. Then what will you whine about?"
> >>>
> >>> DFS: "When that magical, mystical, majestical day comes, you be sure to tell
> >>> me.
> >>>
> >>> Kier: "Oh believe me, I will. With enormous pleasure."
> >>> =======================================
> >> (Mental note: DFS has a long memory)
>
> More likely he just spends an inordinate amount of time using the search
> box in Google Groups, desperately searching for small fragments of
> ammunition he can use to resurrect the Shill's flagging campaign.
I don't know about that. I think Microsoft has a couple of buildings
full of researchers on 24 hour call to support their Shill partners.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
If the first attempt at making a drawing board had been a failure,
what would they go back to?
Michael B. Trausch
> its certainly changed what the end user gets. if it were not for open
> source you'd still be using shit like word 95 and ie5. open source
> levels the playing field in such a great way that the customer can
> demand greater things from software.
You know what, though? There is one thing that I would like to see—from
all sides of the table. The absence of bloat. Reduced memory
requirements. I don't know about everyone else, but for me the biggest
feature out of any software is a small memory footprint. There is nary a
project that can do that, at least in terms of a complete working system.
If we got rid of bloat, wouldn't life be grand? :-)
- Mike
peterwn
>
> Care to name 'em? Linux Format certainly isn't - IMO it's the best Linux
> mag around. Linux User and Developer comes secon, though it's a bit on the
> high-brow side for me.
>
OK I acknowledge the hat does not fit in that case. Would agree that
it would be unreasonable to apply the 'dog food' rule to a publisher
of MS, Mac and Linux oriented magazines.
Maverick
I see he hit a sore spot, eh?
Is that really you Steve?
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
You are hopelessly obsessed with the state of the Linux operating
system. Cancel or Allow?
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities.
-- Walt Kelly, "Pogo"
Bobbie
the Bumble Bee', Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>
> You are hopelessly obsessed with the state of the Linux operating
> system. Cancel or Allow?
Cancel.
--
Bobbie the Triple Killer
http://members.shaw.ca/bobbie4/index.htm
email Bobbie @ bobbie4R...@shaw.ca
remember to 'remove this'
Bobbie recently switched to Ubuntu 6.
Why? Cause he can, that's why.
Linonut
> In this case, like every other case, you're wrong. There are plenty of
> Windows packages suitable for professional magazine layout/publishing (Adobe
> InDesign, Quark Xpress, Corel Ventura). On the other hand, there is no OSS
> crapware suitable for the job.
Maybe, maybe not. But there was FrameMaker:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FrameMaker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fmlinux556.png
But that never went anywhere, apparently, although, since FrameMaker
runs on UNIX, you'd think Linux wouldn't be a big stretch.
Maybe it's a hardware issue, UNIX on specialized equipment? No, nobody
really even wanted it:
FrameMaker 5.5.6 beta was also the only version to run on Linux,
however there was never a final version released due to poor feedback
from potential customers. It was also the last version available for
IRIX.
It does run on Solaris, however.
--
Press "Any" key to continue.
Hadron Quark
> "[H]omer" wrote:
>>
>> Verily I say unto thee, that Kelsey Bjarnason spake thusly:
>> > [snips]
>> >
>> > On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Kier: "The day will come when they are able to migrate it [Linux Format
>> >>> production] over [to open source tools]. Then what will you whine about?"
>> >>>
>> >>> DFS: "When that magical, mystical, majestical day comes, you be sure to tell
>> >>> me.
>> >>>
>> >>> Kier: "Oh believe me, I will. With enormous pleasure."
>> >>> =======================================
>> >> (Mental note: DFS has a long memory)
>>
>> More likely he just spends an inordinate amount of time using the search
>> box in Google Groups, desperately searching for small fragments of
>> ammunition he can use to resurrect the Shill's flagging campaign.
>
> I don't know about that. I think Microsoft has a couple of buildings
> full of researchers on 24 hour call to support their Shill partners.
Give it up Roy.
Hadron Quark
Is the above an admission of being a Linux shill and overall
bullshitter? It might seem so to others not so familiar with your normal
honesty and clear thinking ....
Hadron Quark
Hmm. I wonder if that works with the 98% of the worlds companies who use
Windows apps? Hmmm ......
Jamie Hart
news:87ps74w...@gmail.com:
Of course it does.
You should listen to us advocates occasionally, we've been explaining
this for years.
Microsoft maintains it's market share due to inertia, not superiority.
DFS
But Windows apps and games and hardware universe (ie the components that
maintain inertia) are superior. Very much so.
Hadron Quark
I cant think of a single GUI OSS program "for free" which outperforms
its closed source retail counterpart. Not one.
Gimp is good but not a patch on PSP.
Oh hang on - emacs. Nothing in the retail world touches emacs. Oh, hang
on, Thats not GUI.
Kier
> peterwn wrote:
>> On Mar 20, 7:14 am, William Poaster <w...@kubuntulinux110.eu> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>>
>>>>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and
>>>>> proprietary software because the half-ass world of open source
>>>>> software can't produce quality code.
>>>
>>
>>> You may also like to know, that ALL Future Publishing magazines are
>>> produced on Macs. So *even* windoze mags are produced on Macs,
>
> How do you know?
Because the LFX crew *said* so, idjut.
>
>
>>> "because the half-ass world of M$ proprietry software can't produce
>>> quality code" either.
>
> In this case, like every other case, you're wrong. There are plenty of
> Windows packages suitable for professional magazine layout/publishing (Adobe
> InDesign, Quark Xpress, Corel Ventura). On the other hand, there is no OSS
> crapware suitable for the job.
>
> On top of which, the editors of the Windows mags of Future Publishing don't
> make it a point to criticize competing OS's in *every single issue*, like
> the immature weenie hypocrites at LXF do.
So what? You expect them to prais Windows? Why should they?
>
>
>
>
>> Just because some magazine chooses to call itself a 'Linux' magazine
>> does not necessarily mean that it is a Linux magazine. For all one
>> knows it could be a M$ shill magazine, and some come pretty close to
>> that.
>
> You would have a point if the editors of Linux Format didn't deride Windows,
> Mac and other proprietary software in every issue, calling it buggy,
> bloated, sucks, etc
So what? If it's buggy, bloaty and sucky, why shouldn't they say so?
--
Kier
The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@noreply.com>
wrote
on Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:51:17 GMT
<20070319215241.6fb77c48@ed-desktop>:
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:18:19 -0500
> "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
>
>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and
>> proprietary software because the half-ass world of open source
>> software can't produce quality code.
>
> still hosted on linux servers.
FWIW, the generator in the metadata of the mainpage
suggests it was created by something called PostNuke
(http://postnuke.com). This is an open source,
customizable facility with a WYSIWYG editor, according to
their homepage.
It's entirely possible that this part runs on OSX but it
could just as easily run on Linux, FreeBSD, traditional
Unices, or even Windows, presumably.
>
>> =======================================
>> In early March 2005:
>>
>> Kier: "The day will come when they are able to migrate it [Linux
>> Format production] over [to open source tools]. Then what will you
>> whine about?"
>>
>> DFS: "When that magical, mystical, majestical day comes, you be sure
>> to tell me.
>>
>> Kier: "Oh believe me, I will. With enormous pleasure."
>> =======================================
>>
>> Well? Kier must by now be a Zen master of delayed gratification.
>>
>> How much longer do we have to wait, and how many more excuses do we
>> have to listen to? I guess Microsoft is to blame, somehow.
>>
>> And open source is the revolution that's going to take down MS and
>> closed source software? I don't think so.
>
> its certainly changed what the end user gets. if it were not for open
> source you'd still be using shit like word 95 and ie5. open source
> levels the playing field in such a great way that the customer can
> demand greater things from software.
>
It certainly keeps Microsoft on their toes. :-)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Linux. An OS which actually, unlike certain other offerings, works.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Linonut
>> Microsoft maintains it's market share due to inertia, not superiority.
>
> But Windows apps and games and hardware universe (ie the components that
> maintain inertia) are superior. Very much so.
Some are. Some aren't. You can't collapse OSS or CSS into one category
in the way you always try to do it.
But one has to wonder why the apps and games and hardware universe is so
dominated (on the desktop) by one company.
It's pretty easy to be superior when you're the only game in town.
Time to buy up some more companies, Steve-o!
--
Don't flip the Bozo Bit. -- Jim McCarthy, Microsoft
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
putty for one example.
> Gimp is good but not a patch on PSP.
>
> Oh hang on - emacs. Nothing in the retail world touches emacs. Oh, hang
> on, Thats not GUI.
Depends on what version you use.
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=mTeh
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Homo sapiens, isn't
Hadron Quark
No it doesnt. Emacs running "in a gui" doesn't make it a proper GUI app.
Peter Köhlmann
What do "emacs-x11" or "emacs-nox" tell you, "true linux advocate", "kernel
hacker" and "emacs user" Hadron Quark?
--
Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
Let it get in YOUR way. The problem for your problem.
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:34:39 +0100,
No comment about putty?
>>> Gimp is good but not a patch on PSP.
>>>
>>> Oh hang on - emacs. Nothing in the retail world touches emacs. Oh, hang
>>> on, Thats not GUI.
>>
>> Depends on what version you use.
>
> No it doesnt. Emacs running "in a gui" doesn't make it a proper GUI app.
it's a gui app if you run the gui version. You may or may not *like* it,
but it's a GUI app.
Unless you'd care to offer a definition of "Gui App" that excludes say,
emacs.app for OSX?
<http://emacs-app.sourceforge.net/>
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Omr6NyQnFbPFN+0UfPMZ3FU=
=4h46
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
I see stupid people
DFS
> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>>> Microsoft maintains it's market share due to inertia, not
>>> superiority.
>>
>> But Windows apps and games and hardware universe (ie the components
>> that maintain inertia) are superior. Very much so.
>
> Some are. Some aren't. You can't collapse OSS or CSS into one
> category in the way you always try to do it.
Feels that way to me... :)
> But one has to wonder why the apps and games and hardware universe is
> so dominated (on the desktop) by one company.
That's what the world wanted - and needed. It makes life very much easier
when you can go from home to work and back and count on a standard app or OS
or methodology.
> It's pretty easy to be superior when you're the only game in town.
> Time to buy up some more companies, Steve-o!
If you're lucky you too can sell out to MS.
DFS
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:58:41 -0500, DFS wrote:
>
>> peterwn wrote:
>>> On Mar 20, 7:14 am, William Poaster <w...@kubuntulinux110.eu> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>
>>>>>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and
>>>>>> proprietary software because the half-ass world of open source
>>>>>> software can't produce quality code.
>>>>
>>>
>>>> You may also like to know, that ALL Future Publishing magazines are
>>>> produced on Macs. So *even* windoze mags are produced on Macs,
>>
>> How do you know?
>
> Because the LFX crew *said* so, idjut.
Show me where they *said* so, fool.
>>>> "because the half-ass world of M$ proprietry software can't produce
>>>> quality code" either.
>>
>> In this case, like every other case, you're wrong. There are plenty
>> of Windows packages suitable for professional magazine
>> layout/publishing (Adobe InDesign, Quark Xpress, Corel Ventura). On
>> the other hand, there is no OSS crapware suitable for the job.
>>
>> On top of which, the editors of the Windows mags of Future
>> Publishing don't make it a point to criticize competing OS's in
>> *every single issue*, like the immature weenie hypocrites at LXF do.
>
> So what? You expect them to prais Windows? Why should they?
Because it's better software.
>>> Just because some magazine chooses to call itself a 'Linux' magazine
>>> does not necessarily mean that it is a Linux magazine. For all one
>>> knows it could be a M$ shill magazine, and some come pretty close to
>>> that.
>>
>> You would have a point if the editors of Linux Format didn't deride
>> Windows, Mac and other proprietary software in every issue, calling
>> it buggy, bloated, sucks, etc
>
> So what? If it's buggy, bloaty and sucky, why shouldn't they say so?
So they don't look like moronic cola "advocates" of course.
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
Thought you might ignore that one.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable from
sarcasm
-- Erik Naggum
John A. Bailo
> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs
Who reads magazines any more?
--
You Read It Here First
http://you-read-it-here-first.com
Rick
> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and proprietary
> software because the half-ass world of open source software can't produce
> quality code.
>
... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and proprietary
software because the half-ass world of Windows software can't produce
quality code.
--
Rick
Linonut
>> But one has to wonder why the apps and games and hardware universe is
>> so dominated (on the desktop) by one company.
>
> That's what the world wanted - and needed. It makes life very much easier
> when you can go from home to work and back and count on a standard app or OS
> or methodology.
True, and it should have been achieved through open standards and fair
competition, resulting in more than one implementation.
Instead, it takes the Free Software community to muster up a competitive
response.
>> It's pretty easy to be superior when you're the only game in town.
>> Time to buy up some more companies, Steve-o!
>
> If you're lucky you too can sell out to MS.
Just like Homer Simpson!
That episode shows that Bill Gates' rep for corpo-cidal acquisition was
well known.
--
"Don't be evil." -- Google
"We don't agree with that." -- Bill Gates
Linonut
> DFS wrote:
>
>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs
>
> Who reads magazines any more?
Oldies like me.
Actually, a magazine saves your ass when stuck in traffic for an hour
on a no-way-out bridged interstate in the Charleston "infuckstructure".
--
Q: Why does a Linux user compile his kernel?
A: Because he can.
Hadron Quark
I didn't see it.
lets see : GnuStep and OS/X.
beta.
Yup. As I thought.
Everyone knows emacs is a real mans application. We dont want it faired
up with attempts to make it sit on a desktop properly.
Peter Köhlmann
Poor "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker" and "emacs user" Hadron Quark
Again: What might "emacs-x11" tell you? What about "XEmacs"?
Yup. You are truly an "emacs user". So incredibly knowledgeable about all
emacs matters
--
Microsoft's Guide To System Design:
It could be worse, but it'll take time.
The Ghost In The Machine
<peter.k...@t-online.de>
wrote
on Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:35:53 +0100
<ettt6c$gmf$02$1...@news.t-online.com>:
And just so that the other side of the famous
emacs-vi Flame War (or was that The War Between The
Editors?) doesn't feel left out, there's also 'gvim',
which is a graphical variation of the vi clone 'vim'.
:-)
So now I kind of have to ask Hadron exactly what a "proper
GUI app" is. It's clear gvim and xemacs/emacs-x11 have
pulldown menus, for example.
A lot of GUI "wizards" also have things one can type text into.
Oh, the horror -- having to touch the keyboard!
Color me confused here.
Hadron Quark
Oh dear me.
Who mentioned XEmacs or emacs-x11.
You do *know* that these are totally different applications don't you?
I said emacs is not a GUI app.
"emacs" can be linked with various GUI libraries to run on a GUI
desktop, but its as far from being a "GUI App" as you are from being in
charge of the Samaritans.
>
> Yup. You are truly an "emacs user". So incredibly knowledgeable about all
> emacs matters
I know a fair bit.
And it's not a gui app. Not a real gui app by any stretch of the
imagination.
You can huff and puff all you like.
If you think various flavours are GUI apps then I hope you are not
involved in designing GUI apps.
Kier
> Kier wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:58:41 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> peterwn wrote:
>>>> On Mar 20, 7:14 am, William Poaster <w...@kubuntulinux110.eu> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>>>>>> After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and
>>>>>>> proprietary software because the half-ass world of open source
>>>>>>> software can't produce quality code.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You may also like to know, that ALL Future Publishing magazines are
>>>>> produced on Macs. So *even* windoze mags are produced on Macs,
>>>
>>> How do you know?
>>
>> Because the LFX crew *said* so, idjut.
>
> Show me where they *said* so, fool.
Read the magazine.. They addressed that months ago. The whole range is
produced on the same machines.
>
>
>
>
>>>>> "because the half-ass world of M$ proprietry software can't produce
>>>>> quality code" either.
>>>
>>> In this case, like every other case, you're wrong. There are plenty
>>> of Windows packages suitable for professional magazine
>>> layout/publishing (Adobe InDesign, Quark Xpress, Corel Ventura). On
>>> the other hand, there is no OSS crapware suitable for the job.
>>>
>>> On top of which, the editors of the Windows mags of Future
>>> Publishing don't make it a point to criticize competing OS's in
>>> *every single issue*, like the immature weenie hypocrites at LXF do.
>>
>> So what? You expect them to prais Windows? Why should they?
>
> Because it's better software.
Not in everyone's opinion. If they don't think Windows is any good, why
should they lie and say it is.
When Linux/Linux software falls short, they say so. But of course, in your
tiny mind, it's all right to slag Linux, but not Windows.
>>>> Just because some magazine chooses to call itself a 'Linux' magazine
>>>> does not necessarily mean that it is a Linux magazine. For all one
>>>> knows it could be a M$ shill magazine, and some come pretty close to
>>>> that.
>>>
>>> You would have a point if the editors of Linux Format didn't deride
>>> Windows, Mac and other proprietary software in every issue, calling it
>>> buggy, bloated, sucks, etc
>>
>> So what? If it's buggy, bloaty and sucky, why shouldn't they say so?
>
> So they don't look like moronic cola "advocates" of course.
They're a long way from being morons. If Windows is crappy - and it often
is - they have a prefect right to say so. You waste no opportunity to
rubbish all aspects of Linux, so you can hardly criticise the LFX crew.
--
Kier
Hadron Quark
Why are you talking about the OS? The desktop publishing SW available for
Windows is way and above anything available for Linux. Latex doesn't cut
it anymore I am afraid. People want GUI apps and content management
systems. Wordpress doesn't fit the bill...
Kier
> After takin' a swig o' grog, John A. Bailo belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> DFS wrote:
>>
>>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs
>>
>> Who reads magazines any more?
>
> Oldies like me.
From the looks of magazine racks in most supermarkets and newsagents, lots
of people read mags. Gawd, Bailo is *still* an idiot.
--
Kier
DFS
> After takin' a swig o' grog, John A. Bailo belched out this bit o'
> wisdom:
>
>> DFS wrote:
>>
>>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs
>>
>> Who reads magazines any more?
>
> Oldies like me.
And me. I'd rather read a magazine than a webpage.
> Actually, a magazine saves your ass when stuck in traffic for an hour
> on a no-way-out bridged interstate in the Charleston
> "infuckstructure".
Or on the john :), or while scarfing down Hunan shrimp at the local Chinese
restaurant.
[H]omer
> So now I kind of have to ask Hadron exactly what a "proper GUI app"
> is.
He's an idiot.
A GUI app is an app with a GUI. Simple.
On systems, like Linux, where developers are used to creating highly
portable and scalable tools, many, if not most, applications are created
using a back-end/front-end methodology, facilitating a choice of
multiple front-ends, or the use of a back-end as a stub for another
application.
The Windows development methodology is monolithic, creating one big fat
bloated application, with just one access route - the GUI.
There are exceptions on both sides of course, but that's the general rule.
So now Hardon Quirk is going to explain to everyone why portability and
scalability is a BadThing®, why monolithic design is a GoodThing®, and
why e.g. headless servers need a GUI, let alone GUI apps. I.e. - why
users shouldn't have a choice of running textmode or GUI versions of the
same application.
> Color me confused here.
"Well first of all you're not confused, you're an unconfused reaction to
a confusing situation. Feeling confused at a confusing time, in a
confusing place does not make you necessarily confused, if you catch my
drift."
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade
| Layer' when they go through our landfill sites" - Sian Berry, the
| Green Party.
`----
Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.20-1.2300.fc5
17:05:43 up 2 days, 16:19, 2 users, load average: 0.14, 0.21, 0.24
[H]omer
> After takin' a swig o' grog, John A. Bailo belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>
>> DFS wrote:
>>
>>> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs
>> Who reads magazines any more?
>
> Oldies like me.
>
> Actually, a magazine saves your ass when stuck in traffic for an hour
> on a no-way-out bridged interstate in the Charleston "infuckstructure".
>
Talking of magazines; my local newsagents are now on to their third
order this month for Linux magazines (they've sold out their stock every
week), while the Windows magazines gather dust on the shelf.
She's now moved the Vista magazine down to the "special interest" shelf,
next to the knitting and pottery magazines.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade
| Layer' when they go through our landfill sites" - Sian Berry, the
| Green Party.
`----
Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.20-1.2300.fc5
17:12:43 up 2 days, 16:26, 2 users, load average: 0.23, 0.29, 0.26
Hadron Quark
> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>
>> So now I kind of have to ask Hadron exactly what a "proper GUI app"
>> is.
>
> He's an idiot.
>
> A GUI app is an app with a GUI. Simple.
Define a GUI.
by that reckoning ALL apps which run on X are "GUI". They are, of
course, not.
emacs is NOT a GUI app.
The Ghost In The Machine
<hadro...@gmail.com>
wrote
on Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:39:42 +0100
<87y7lpy...@gmail.com>:
> "[H]omer" <sp...@uce.gov> writes:
>
>> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>>
>>> So now I kind of have to ask Hadron exactly what a "proper GUI app"
>>> is.
>>
>> He's an idiot.
>>
>> A GUI app is an app with a GUI. Simple.
>
> Define a GUI.
GUI: graphical user interface.
UI: user interface, a method by which a standard user
(cf. specifications on _Homo Sapiens sapiens_, a bit of
a misnomer but the official tag nonetheless; in short,
10 fingers, 10 toes, tongue, nose, eyes, hair, butt,
genitalia, etc. etc.) can interact with a computer system
(cf. specifications on either Von Neumann, 5150, Intel,
stored-program, or Personal Computer), either feeding it
input or monitoring its output in some form. Most GUIs
include more or less standard revelation elements such as
pull-down/cascading menus, as well as concepts such as
draggable items (windows), clickable buttons, and icons
on the windows (minimize, close, maximize) to control
their behavior.
G: Graphical. If one wants to be extremely silly here
one can note that *all* items are graphical in some form
in computers such as the Macintosh (at least, the older
ones; I don't know if the newer ones have a split similar
to the PC video cards or not) and the Amiga, including
text displays. In short, neither can display text except
by converting it into pixmap glyphs. (Modern PCs using a
GUI use an intermediate format such as FreeType but have
much the same problem.)
For what it's worth very old computers didn't even have
displays; one was expected to communicate with them through
serial ports (RFC232 or RFC433). Some embedded computers
use this method to this day; others use an RJ45 network
interface. One in particular is smaller than one's thumb:
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS8386088053.html
Were this system to include a keyboard, mouse, and 15-D
VGA-compatible connector, it would be 2-3 times as large.
For various reasons the drawing elements on the X Windows System
can be transmitted over the network; this was an explicit design
decision long ago. Therefore, a network-aware application can
also be a GUI application.
>
> by that reckoning ALL apps which run on X are "GUI". They are, of
> course, not.
>
> emacs is NOT a GUI app.
OK. So what is the distinguishing feature here, between
Notepad, which is a (very very stupid dumb imbecilic
moronic idiotic ... erm, never mind; I could go on
endlessly here) GUI app, and x-emacs, which is the X
encapsulation of emacs (a highly sophisticated editor,
or a LISP interpreter that happens to do text editing :-)),
which apparently is not (even though the latter also
has a fair number of pulldown menus)?
I agree that emacs is not a GUI app; x-emacs is an old
modification thereof, so be careful here.
[rest snipped]
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of
elderberries!" - Monty Python and the Holy Grail
The Ghost In The Machine
<sp...@uce.gov>
wrote
on Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:07:08 +0000
<tmpad4-...@sky.matrix>:
> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>
>> So now I kind of have to ask Hadron exactly what a "proper GUI app"
>> is.
>
> He's an idiot.
>
> A GUI app is an app with a GUI. Simple.
Not quite that simple. Xterm has a GUI
(something-mousebutton1, 2, or 3, for example; I can't seem
to find it at the moment as my window manager appears to
be swallowing it), but no one in their right mind would
call it a GUI app, though it does require an X server.
Also, some insurance companies like to access a real old
mainframe Curses-like form app using a little window
surrounding it. I've also seen some Rogue-like game
encapsulations -- Falcon is a rather interesting one --
where the GUI merely sends commands through the seams.
As a friend of mine once put it, there is a big difference
between online documentation and documentation online.
The former refers to documentation that has things such
as hyperlinks, active media content, and is generally intended
to be interacted with through a web browser; the latter is
whatever the company decided to throw into a storage repository
which happens to be accessed through a web server, so one can
get at it but it's relatively static stuff.
(Google's book scans might be an example of the latter;
they are, AFAIK, raw pixel scans of various books. A lot
of websites serve PDFs, and while PDF does have the ability
to type in values (for some reason) it's nowhere near as
flexible as HTML in that regard, AFAIK.)
One can make a similar dichotomy regarding apps. I'm not
sure quite how to characterize the two except that
one might construe an old-style character-based app as
"encapsulated".
Now....is xemacs an example of a truly unified GUI app,
or simply an app with a light "menu skin" tacked thereonto?
Ditto for gvim.
>
> On systems, like Linux, where developers are used to creating highly
> portable and scalable tools, many, if not most, applications are created
> using a back-end/front-end methodology, facilitating a choice of
> multiple front-ends, or the use of a back-end as a stub for another
> application.
>
> The Windows development methodology is monolithic, creating one big fat
> bloated application, with just one access route - the GUI.
>
> There are exceptions on both sides of course, but that's the general rule.
>
> So now Hardon Quirk is going to explain to everyone why portability and
> scalability is a BadThing®, why monolithic design is a GoodThing®, and
> why e.g. headless servers need a GUI, let alone GUI apps. I.e. - why
> users shouldn't have a choice of running textmode or GUI versions of the
> same application.
I'll admit it's interesting to contemplate that putting deliberate,
well-documented seams into an application/system actually helps
facilitate scalability, portability, and maybe even usability.
So-called "seamless integration" is a bit mythical.
>
>> Color me confused here.
>
> "Well first of all you're not confused, you're an unconfused reaction to
> a confusing situation. Feeling confused at a confusing time, in a
> confusing place does not make you necessarily confused, if you catch my
> drift."
>
Now I'm *really* confused. :-P Are you trying to confuse me, or
Hadron? :-)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
- allegedly said by Bill Gates, 1981, but somebody had to make this up!
[H]omer
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [H]omer <sp...@uce.gov> wrote on Thu, 22
> Mar 2007 17:07:08 +0000 <tmpad4-...@sky.matrix>:
>> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>>> So now I kind of have to ask Hadron exactly what a "proper GUI
>>> app" is.
>> He's an idiot.
>>
>> A GUI app is an app with a GUI. Simple.
> Not quite that simple. Xterm has a GUI (something-mousebutton1, 2,
> or 3, for example; I can't seem to find it at the moment as my window
> manager appears to be swallowing it), but no one in their right mind
> would call it a GUI app, though it does require an X server.
Actually, using gpm you can have mouse-based copy & paste, etc. from the
console, even without X. When I say GUI, however, I (and most other
people) are talking about a full WIMP environment (X11, Windows, Aqua,
etc), and the applications that run under it in non-console mode, i.e.
graphical objects, no terminal emulation.
When I run emacs from the console, I get a text-based application. When
I run emacs in X11, I get a GUI application, complete with menus, a
toolbar, and an animated splash page. What Hardon thinks isn't "GUI"
about that, I don't know.
>> On systems, like Linux, where developers are used to creating
>> highly portable and scalable tools, many, if not most, applications
>> are created using a back-end/front-end methodology, facilitating a
>> choice of multiple front-ends, or the use of a back-end as a stub
>> for another application.
>>
>> The Windows development methodology is monolithic, creating one big
>> fat bloated application, with just one access route - the GUI.
>>
>> There are exceptions on both sides of course, but that's the
>> general rule.
>>
>> So now Hardon Quirk is going to explain to everyone why portability
>> and scalability is a BadThing®, why monolithic design is a
>> GoodThing®, and why e.g. headless servers need a GUI, let alone GUI
>> apps. I.e. - why users shouldn't have a choice of running textmode
>> or GUI versions of the same application.
> I'll admit it's interesting to contemplate that putting deliberate,
> well-documented seams into an application/system actually helps
> facilitate scalability, portability, and maybe even usability.
>
> So-called "seamless integration" is a bit mythical.
There's nothing wrong with integration, as long as that integration does
not preclude modularity and substitution.
>>> Color me confused here.
>> "Well first of all you're not confused, you're an unconfused
>> reaction to a confusing situation. Feeling confused at a confusing
>> time, in a confusing place does not make you necessarily confused,
>> if you catch my drift."
> Now I'm *really* confused. :-P Are you trying to confuse me, or
> Hadron? :-)
It's a paraphrased movie quote ;)
C-x-C-c
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| "Future archaeologists will be able to identify a 'Vista Upgrade
| Layer' when they go through our landfill sites" - Sian Berry, the
| Green Party.
`----
Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.20-1.2300.fc5
22:52:59 up 2 days, 22:07, 2 users, load average: 0.05, 0.18, 0.23
William Poaster
As I said, Windoze magazines are *also* produced with Macs and proprietary
software. Obviously M$ Windoze isn't up to it either.
--
Contrary to popular belief, the M$ trolls & shills
*can* tell the difference between their arse
& their elbow.
They can't talk out of their elbow.
The Ghost In The Machine
<43ebd4-...@sky.matrix>:
> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [H]omer <sp...@uce.gov> wrote on Thu, 22
>> Mar 2007 17:07:08 +0000 <tmpad4-...@sky.matrix>:
>>> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>
>>>> So now I kind of have to ask Hadron exactly what a "proper GUI
>>>> app" is.
>
>>> He's an idiot.
>>>
>>> A GUI app is an app with a GUI. Simple.
>
>> Not quite that simple. Xterm has a GUI (something-mousebutton1, 2,
>> or 3, for example; I can't seem to find it at the moment as my window
>> manager appears to be swallowing it), but no one in their right mind
>> would call it a GUI app, though it does require an X server.
>
> Actually, using gpm you can have mouse-based copy & paste, etc. from the
> console, even without X.
This is true. As I recall, the "paste" is a series of
keystrokes/characters (i.e., in some vi variants one
might have to press "i" or "a" first), but it's pretty
close to WIMP paste. :-) And other variants of vi are also
gpm-aware, which means it knows to insert the text at the
cursor point.
I suspect emacs is, too.
I've not fiddled with gpm in awhile, though; I rarely go outside X.
> When I say GUI, however, I (and most other
> people) are talking about a full WIMP environment (X11, Windows, Aqua,
> etc), and the applications that run under it in non-console mode, i.e.
> graphical objects, no terminal emulation.
>
> When I run emacs from the console, I get a text-based application. When
> I run emacs in X11, I get a GUI application, complete with menus, a
> toolbar, and an animated splash page. What Hardon thinks isn't "GUI"
> about that, I don't know.
I don't know either. :-) Notepad, after all, is a full-fledged GUI app
by any reasonable definition -- and about the absolute most brain-dead
editor short of EDLIN that I've seen recently.
>
>>> On systems, like Linux, where developers are used to creating
>>> highly portable and scalable tools, many, if not most, applications
>>> are created using a back-end/front-end methodology, facilitating a
>>> choice of multiple front-ends, or the use of a back-end as a stub
>>> for another application.
>>>
>>> The Windows development methodology is monolithic, creating one big
>>> fat bloated application, with just one access route - the GUI.
>>>
>>> There are exceptions on both sides of course, but that's the
>>> general rule.
>>>
>>> So now Hardon Quirk is going to explain to everyone why portability
>>> and scalability is a BadThing®, why monolithic design is a
>>> GoodThing®, and why e.g. headless servers need a GUI, let alone GUI
>>> apps. I.e. - why users shouldn't have a choice of running textmode
>>> or GUI versions of the same application.
>
>> I'll admit it's interesting to contemplate that putting deliberate,
>> well-documented seams into an application/system actually helps
>> facilitate scalability, portability, and maybe even usability.
>>
>> So-called "seamless integration" is a bit mythical.
>
> There's nothing wrong with integration, as long as that integration does
> not preclude modularity and substitution.
Also true. :-)
>
>>>> Color me confused here.
>
>>> "Well first of all you're not confused, you're an unconfused
>>> reaction to a confusing situation. Feeling confused at a confusing
>>> time, in a confusing place does not make you necessarily confused,
>>> if you catch my drift."
>
>> Now I'm *really* confused. :-P Are you trying to confuse me, or
>> Hadron? :-)
>
> It's a paraphrased movie quote ;)
>
> C-x-C-c
>
Sounds more like a quote from Donald Rumsfeld. :-)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Warning: This encrypted signature is a dangerous
munition. Please notify the US government
immediately upon reception.
0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000 0000 ...
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:39:42 +0100,
Hadron Quark <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "[H]omer" <sp...@uce.gov> writes:
>
>> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>>
>>> So now I kind of have to ask Hadron exactly what a "proper GUI app"
>>> is.
>>
>> He's an idiot.
>>
>> A GUI app is an app with a GUI. Simple.
>
> Define a GUI.
>
> by that reckoning ALL apps which run on X are "GUI". They are, of
> course, not.
>
> emacs is NOT a GUI app.
>
is emacs.app not a GUI app?
if not, would you care to define "GUI app in such a way that excludes
emacs.app, yet includes say, MS-notepad?
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:23:55 +0100,
You claimed that " Emacs running "in a gui" doesn't make it a proper GUI
app" So I wondered if you though emacs.app was a "proper GUI app?
so far, you have failed to answer that. Wanna try again? Or was your
claim that..
>>>>>> I cant think of a single GUI OSS program "for free" which outperforms
>>>>>> its closed source retail counterpart. Not one.
I have given you two examples. Putty, and Emacs.app. Now, either you
claim they are not GUI apps, or you claim that they don't outperform
their closed source retail counterparts. Or, you realize that yes, there
are good GUI open source apps, that out perform their closed source
counterparts (if they have any)
Or you just run away from your claim, I suppose that's possible too.
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
"We have captured lightning and used it to teach sand how to think."
DFS
> Hadron Quark <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I cant think of a single GUI OSS program "for free" which
>>>>>>> outperforms its closed source retail counterpart. Not one.
>
> I have given you two examples. Putty, and Emacs.app.
What is the closed source retail counterpart you think Putty bests (Putty,
btw, was a Windows app before it was a *nix app)?
I use WinSCP at a client site http://winscp.net/eng/docs/screenshots
> Now, either you
> claim they are not GUI apps, or you claim that they don't outperform
> their closed source retail counterparts. Or, you realize that yes,
> there are good GUI open source apps, that out perform their closed
> source counterparts (if they have any)
>
>
> Or you just run away from your claim, I suppose that's possible too.
You're thinking of the average cola "advocate" who makes outrageous claims
then slinks away.
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:40:28 -0500,
DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
> Jim Richardson wrote:
>
>> Hadron Quark <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> I cant think of a single GUI OSS program "for free" which
>>>>>>>> outperforms its closed source retail counterpart. Not one.
>>
>> I have given you two examples. Putty, and Emacs.app.
>
> What is the closed source retail counterpart you think Putty bests (Putty,
> btw, was a Windows app before it was a *nix app)?
>
> I use WinSCP at a client site http://winscp.net/eng/docs/screenshots
>
>
winSCP is opensource. Since the question was hadron's claim that
>>>>>>>> I cant think of a single GUI OSS program "for free" which
>>>>>>>> outperforms its closed source retail counterpart. Not one.
I'd say that WinSCP, being open source, is on the open source side of
that claim. Which is to say, that Hadron either couldn't think of
WinSCP, or thinks there's something out there in the closed source world
that beats it.
>
>
>> Now, either you
>> claim they are not GUI apps, or you claim that they don't outperform
>> their closed source retail counterparts. Or, you realize that yes,
>> there are good GUI open source apps, that out perform their closed
>> source counterparts (if they have any)
>>
>>
>> Or you just run away from your claim, I suppose that's possible too.
>
> You're thinking of the average cola "advocate" who makes outrageous claims
> then slinks away.
Good, then you can point me to Hadron's responce to my post right?
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Nine out of ten of the voices in my head say "Don't shoot!"
Thufir
> On Mar 20, 7:14 am, William Poaster <w...@kubuntulinux110.eu> wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:23:20 -0500, Linonut wrote:
>> > After takin' a swig o' grog, DFS belched out this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>> >> ... and Linux Format magazine is still produced with Macs and
>> >> proprietary software because the half-ass world of open source
>> >> software can't produce quality code.
>>
>>
>> You may also like to know, that ALL Future Publishing magazines are
>> produced on Macs. So *even* windoze mags are produced on Macs, "because
>> the half-ass world of M$ proprietry software can't produce quality
>> code" either.
>>
>>
> Just because some magazine chooses to call itself a 'Linux' magazine
> does not necessarily mean that it is a Linux magazine. For all one
> knows it could be a M$ shill magazine, and some come pretty close to
> that.
Which magazines did you have in mind?
-Thufir
William Poaster
The ones I read are *definitely* linux mags!
ed
it should be gnu/linux format.
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