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cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 1:36:01 AM12/16/02
to
I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure. Even with a
cable modem that was configured without me lifting a finger it still needs
some work. About two years worth would be my guess.It does just what it
wants to do and refuses to do anything else worse than any version of
Windows or Mac ever has. It could not even handle www.playsite.com and play
a stupid Scrabble game.
Keep it in the scientific workstation until it is ready to be out among
normal people instead of making promises everyone knows it cannot keep. Do
some SETI with it until it has a decent interface. Or fold some human
genomes. Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with less
than three full years of higher education in computer science. That would be
about what it takes to run Linux on a computer without some IT personnel
behind you.


Richard Revis

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Dec 16, 2002, 1:56:41 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern used a team of monkeys to generate this reply:

> I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure. Even with
> a cable modem that was configured without me lifting a finger it still
> needs some work.

And? A little work now is far better than a lot of work later on.

> About two years worth would be my guess.

A year more likley, although if someone configured it for you 99% of the
components are ready now.

> It does just what it
> wants to do and refuses to do anything else worse than any version of
> Windows or Mac ever has. It could not even handle www.playsite.com and
> play a stupid Scrabble game.

Thanks for the link, I was looking for a new games site (ever since MS broke
Zone.com) and this one works fine for me.

> Keep it in the scientific workstation until it is ready to be out among
> normal people instead of making promises everyone knows it cannot keep.

What promises were made exactly? AFAIK there is no one here who says that
Linux works in every respect out of the box, it always requires some effort
to run perfectly.. but what you put in you get back threefold.

> Do some SETI with it until it has a decent interface.

Like KDE you mean? Or perhaps Fluxbox or wmeiea.. there are many many decent
interfaces, you just have to spend 5 minutes getting them to your taste.

> Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with
> less than three full years of higher education in computer science.

It requires about three years of primary school and the ability to use a
text editor. Oh, and a modicum of patience.

--
People carriers are for the clueless about contraception.
6:50am up 15:23, 1 user, load average: 0.35, 0.35, 0.89
RX bytes:12056249 (11.4 Mb) TX bytes:2300894 (2.1 Mb)
E-mail address munged to prevent spam.

cybear

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:05:29 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

> I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure.

I have been using Linux excusivly at home now for a couple of years. So, I
have determined that it is you that is the failure.

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:04:41 AM12/16/02
to

"Richard Revis" <spamsentto...@bottest.com> wrote in message
news:atjtm4$141q1q$1...@ID-126341.news.dfncis.de...

>
>
> > Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with
> > less than three full years of higher education in computer science.
>
> It requires about three years of primary school and the ability to use a
> text editor. Oh, and a modicum of patience.
>
>
It may not be quite as bad as I made out but it certainly is no picnic in
the park either. All that techie stuff may look good but it sure does not
work like a Mac or a Windows when you click on it. But it does not reboot
either. It just sits there and makes you feel stupid. And that command
line stuff has got to go.


cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:09:50 AM12/16/02
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"cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ZWeL9.336$Jd3.30...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

LOL. I meant for the normal person or family. A certified genius like
yourself could make anything work.


Jeff

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:17:48 AM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:36:01 +0000, cfswestern wrote:

> I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure.

Wow a whole day and you are already giving up?

>Even with a
> cable modem that was configured without me lifting a finger it still needs
> some work. About two years worth would be my guess.It does just what it
> wants to do and refuses to do anything else worse than any version of
> Windows or Mac ever has.

No it does exactly what you tell it to do. Unlike other OS's which tells
you what you can and cannot do, and does things the way it wants to do
things. Did you even spend the time to go online and read the manuals? Or
where you expecting a dancing paper clip to help you?

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:26:14 AM12/16/02
to

"Jeff" <in2fa...@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@notmail.com...

> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:36:01 +0000, cfswestern wrote:
>
> > I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure.
>
> Wow a whole day and you are already giving up?
>
> >

Perhaps the local applications like Open Office do what they should and it
is only the internet based applications that are buggered. It will take me
at least one more day to suss that out.


cybear

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:30:56 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

LOL, you thinking you are anywhere near normal, LOL. The fact that the
walmart Linux pc is selling well is more proof that Linux is ready than
your pathetic claim is proof that it is not. Ha.

cybear

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:32:03 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

> It may not be quite as bad as I made out

Ahhhh, Another wintroll backpeddles when confronted with the truth.

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:33:58 AM12/16/02
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"cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:TjfL9.695$rG4.51...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...

> cfswestern wrote:
>
> > It may not be quite as bad as I made out
>
> Ahhhh, Another wintroll backpeddles when confronted with the truth.

Not so fast there,Sparky. I ain't no wintroll.


Dave Leigh

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:27:03 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote on Monday 16 December 2002 01:36 in message
<lveL9.73978$r4.64...@news1.west.cox.net>:

> I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure. Even with
> a cable modem that was configured without me lifting a finger it still

> needs some work. About two years worth would be my guess. It does just

> what it wants to do and refuses to do anything else worse than any
> version of Windows or Mac ever has. It could not even handle
> www.playsite.com and play a stupid Scrabble game.

Geez. How many times has the year 2005 been mentioned on this newsgroup in
connection with the home market? I know that's Charlie Ebert's predicted
date. As for me, I've predicted that Christmas of 2004 as the time Linux
takes off in the home market. Prior to that is the time to take care of the
corporate desktop.

> Keep it in the scientific workstation until it is ready to be out among
> normal people instead of making promises everyone knows it cannot keep. Do
> some SETI with it until it has a decent interface. Or fold some human
> genomes. Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with
> less than three full years of higher education in computer science. That
> would be about what it takes to run Linux on a computer without some IT
> personnel behind you.

I know many teenagers who have done it, and I encourage them to do so. Even
if they screw up they look at it as a challenge and as a game in itself, as
compared to many fossilized adults who just get frustrated and give up.

Here are the markets for Linux as they stand:
Server: established
Embedded: established
Cluster: established
Corporate desktop: in work... blink and you'll miss the action.
Home: Coming soon to a table near you.

--
Dave Leigh, Consulting Systems Analyst
Cratchit.org

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:36:42 AM12/16/02
to

"cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:QifL9.694$rG4.51...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...

What the heck does that have to do with anything ? Wal-Mart should sell as
many PC's as they have customers.


cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:43:20 AM12/16/02
to

"Dave Leigh" <dave....@cratchit.org> wrote in message
news:uvr0h5...@corp.supernews.com...
I think it was closer to 1995 when I started reading about how Linux was so
secure and unbloated and easy to master that it would be taking over a
desktop near you. Now you are saying more like 2005. Whoever is in charge
better get busy between now and 2005. From the layman standpoint it looks
like the CLI has been replaced by a lot of unintelligible things that start
with / Now just get rid of the / and try a nice point and click
interface that has been around for quite some time and you may be in
business. Don't matter that much to me, just trying to make an observation.


Jeff

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Dec 16, 2002, 2:51:45 AM12/16/02
to

The command line stuff is not that bad! If I can learn to use Linux CLI
than anyone can.

Dave Leigh

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:52:47 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote on Monday 16 December 2002 02:43 in message
<sufL9.74383$r4.65...@news1.west.cox.net>:

> I think it was closer to 1995 when I started reading about how Linux was
> so secure and unbloated and easy to master that it would be taking over a
> desktop near you. Now you are saying more like 2005.  Whoever is in charge
> better get busy between now and 2005.  From the layman standpoint it looks
> like the CLI has been replaced by a lot of unintelligible things that
> start with /     Now just get rid of the /  and try a nice point and click
> interface that has been around for quite some time and you may be in
> business.  Don't matter that much to me, just trying to make an
> observation.

Open Source development is a bit like an anthill. Nobody's in charge and
nobody's forced to do anything, but everybody's busy in their own way. Yet
somehow the hill gets built, expanded, and repaired; the food gets
gathered; the colony is defended; and you don't see the busy ants
complaining. Nobody knows exactly how that works, but it does.

I've been saying Christmas 2004 for some time now, but that's for the
"general populace" (people like you, I suppose, and Flatfish's kids). For
the corporate desktop it's ready and just needs to gain acceptance, which
is happening. One step at a time, pardner.

As to what you're doing at the command prompt... hey! What *are* you doing
at the command prompt? Unless you're using a really old distribution or
perhaps an old reference, once you're installed I can't imagine what a
newbie needs and can't get at in the GUI.

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:00:06 AM12/16/02
to

"Jeff" <in2fa...@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@notmail.com...

May not be that bad but it ain't that much fun or that easy either. Windows
has something called run/msconfig which at least gives a tabbed interface as
to what you want to do. Don't know if that is quite that same as a CLI but
it sure is friendlier.


Jeff

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:00:54 AM12/16/02
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Go read the manual, then come back and complain.

http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/fdoc.php3

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:05:40 AM12/16/02
to

"Dave Leigh" <dave....@cratchit.org> wrote in message
news:uvr21eq...@corp.supernews.com...
I appreciate the hundreds or thousand or hundreds of thousand of hours of
skilled code writing that have gone into it. Or millions as the case may be.
And maybe the learing curve is supposed to be part of the deal. But it is
not easy and saying that it is easy does not make it easy. It is a tornado
in which you try to put your windmills in the right place to get the benefit
without getting blown over.


Dave Leigh

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Dec 16, 2002, 4:01:17 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote on Monday 16 December 2002 03:00 in message
<aKfL9.74406$r4.65...@news1.west.cox.net>:

That does not even remotely RESEMBLE a CLI!
If that's all you want why aren't you using your GUI configurators?
For instance, in Mandrake you'd find them in your menu under... drum
roll... "Configuration"!

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:09:57 AM12/16/02
to

Who reads manuals ? The stuff is just supposed to work. But I guess you
cannot ask for a free lunch and an egg in your beer.


ÐØÜG.M

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:15:56 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

> I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure. Even with
> a cable modem that was configured without me lifting a finger it still
> needs
> some work. About two years worth would be my guess.It does just what it
> wants to do and refuses to do anything else worse than any version of
> Windows or Mac ever has. It could not even handle www.playsite.com and
> play a stupid Scrabble game.

Are you sure ? I was able to play and watch a few games of scrabble.

> Keep it in the scientific workstation until it is ready to be out among
> normal people instead of making promises everyone knows it cannot keep. Do
> some SETI with it until it has a decent interface. Or fold some human
> genomes. Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with
> less than three full years of higher education in computer science. That
> would be about what it takes to run Linux on a computer without some IT
> personnel behind you.


LoL - I know bus drivers how run Linux. All it takes is a little effort but
I guess you don't feel the need to exert that effort at all.

--
Linux just like Democracy = FREEDOM for all who truly yearn to be free !

Give Me Linux Or Give Me Death !

F is for fighting, R is for red
Ancestors' blood in battles they've shed.
E, we elect them, E, we eject them,
In the land of the free and the home of the brave.
D for your dying, O, your overture,
M, is for money, you know what that cures
This spells out freedom, it means nothing to me,
As long as there's a DMCA !

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:16:05 AM12/16/02
to

"Dave Leigh" <dave....@cratchit.org> wrote in message
news:uvr2hac...@corp.supernews.com...
There used to be this old joke about how every time a speaker uses a math
equation in front of a lay audience he would lose half the audience. In this
OS game every time there is a comprehension problem you lose half the
audience. So instead of complaining about the stupidity of the audience
someone should be forward thinking and eliminate the problem. Or just be
content with your one percent. The other ninety-nine percent are beneath
your contempt.


Dave Leigh

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Dec 16, 2002, 4:10:10 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote on Monday 16 December 2002 03:05 in message
<oPfL9.74454$r4.65...@news1.west.cox.net>:

> I appreciate the hundreds or thousand or hundreds of thousand of hours of
> skilled code writing that have gone into it. Or millions as the case may
> be. And maybe the learing curve is supposed to be part of the deal.  But
> it is not easy and saying that it is easy does not make it easy. It is a
> tornado in which you try to put your windmills in the right place to get
> the benefit without getting blown over.

So start practicing with pinwheels, and graduate to windmills. Set yourself
a goal of learning one new thing at a time. And if it turns out that what
you want to learn requires something else, then reprioritize and learn that
first.

First thing you should do is explore your documentation so you know where
you can get information when you need it (don't try to read it all, just
know where it is). Then explore the configuration tools available at the
GUI. You'll probably be surprised at the number of things you can configure
through a dialog that you've been told you need to learn EMACS or vi for.

When you do go to the command line, use 'mc' (Midnight Commander).

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:17:39 AM12/16/02
to

"ĐŘÜG.M" <nos...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:dYfL9.171506$pN3.12752@sccrnsc03...

How did you get that Playsite Scrabble thing to work ? That is a major
issue.


Dave Leigh

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Dec 16, 2002, 4:14:14 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote on Monday 16 December 2002 03:16 in message
<9ZfL9.74549$r4.65...@news1.west.cox.net>:

> There used to be this old joke about how every time a speaker uses a math
> equation in front of a lay audience he would lose half the audience. In
> this OS game every time there is a comprehension problem you lose half the
> audience.  So instead of complaining about the stupidity of the audience
> someone should be forward thinking and eliminate the problem. Or just be
> content with your one percent. The other ninety-nine percent are beneath
> your contempt.

Merely expressing my surprise. I had no idea that that's what you expected
out of a CLI. Trust me, you've got a lot more flexibility in your GUI
configurators than msconfig gives you. Take a look at them.

Jeff

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:22:22 AM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 08:09:57 +0000, cfswestern wrote:

>
> "Jeff" <in2fa...@notmail.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2002.12.16....@notmail.com...
>> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 07:26:14 +0000, cfswestern wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "Jeff" <in2fa...@notmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:pan.2002.12.16....@notmail.com...
>> >> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:36:01 +0000, cfswestern wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure.
>> >>
>> >> Wow a whole day and you are already giving up?
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >
>> > Perhaps the local applications like Open Office do what they should and
> it
>> > is only the internet based applications that are buggered. It will take
> me
>> > at least one more day to suss that out.
>>
>>
>> Go read the manual, then come back and complain.
>>
>> http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/fdoc.php3
>
> Who reads manuals ?

People that want to learn how it works so they can work it. People that
want to learn how it works so they can fix it if it breaks.

> The stuff is just supposed to work.

So what does not work?

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:25:36 AM12/16/02
to

<flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:f02rvukmraf0s3v9f...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:36:01 GMT, "cfswestern" <cfswe...@lvcm.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> Some of you elitist types need to be taken down off your high exalted
> horses and brought back to the reality of the rest of the population,
> which is somewhere over 90 percent, that just wants to view websites
> and not have to learn programming to do so.
>
>
The elitists can always say that too much download and install will lead to
virus and trojan problems. So they do not feature surf and click and
download and install. It is interesting because it becomes a question of
what did not come first, did the chicken not come first or did the egg not
come first ?


cybear

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:28:33 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

Talk like a duck....

cybear

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:28:03 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

>
> "cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:QifL9.694$rG4.51...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
>> cfswestern wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> > news:ZWeL9.336$Jd3.30...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>> >> cfswestern wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure.
>> >>
>> >> I have been using Linux excusivly at home now for a couple of years.
> So,
>> >> I have determined that it is you that is the failure.
>> >
>> > LOL. I meant for the normal person or family. A certified genius like
>> > yourself could make anything work.
>>
>> LOL, you thinking you are anywhere near normal, LOL. The fact that the
>> walmart Linux pc is selling well is more proof that Linux is ready than
>> your pathetic claim is proof that it is not. Ha.
>
> What the heck does that have to do with anything ?

Everything. Linux selling well to a non-technical marked is proof that Linux
is ready to meet the needs of a nontecnical market regardles of what you
say.


> Wal-Mart should sell
> as many PC's as they have customers.

Pure nonsense.


cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:27:40 AM12/16/02
to

"Dave Leigh" <dave....@cratchit.org> wrote in message
news:uvr31v3...@corp.supernews.com...
Documentation ? What happened to intuitive ? Windows XP did not need any
documentation. Mac OS X does not need any documentation. I cry foul.


Jeff

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:28:25 AM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 08:00:06 +0000, cfswestern wrote:

> May not be that bad but it ain't that much fun or that easy either.
> Windows has something called run/msconfig which at least gives a tabbed
> interface as to what you want to do. Don't know if that is quite that
> same as a CLI but it sure is friendlier.


Linux has the CLI, many GUI tools, webmin (web based GUI tool) for doing
many things with your system, all of which you are not going to learn in 1
days time. CLI is only harder when you do not spend the time to learn it,
but once you have mastered it it puts all those user freindly GUI tools to
shame. So you can look at it as GUI easy up front but harder later on and
CLI harder up front but better later on.

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:31:42 AM12/16/02
to

"cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:n8gL9.297$Xo3.17...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
I meant WalMart should sell as many PC's as they have customers who want to
buy them. I did not mean every swinging dick who walked into the retail
store should buy a PC. Moron.


ÐØÜG.M

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:36:46 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

>
> "ÐØÜG.M" <nos...@nospam.org> wrote in message

I am using the lastest Flash beta provide by TexStar that allows you to run
shockwave enabled sites. That and am using Java 1.3.1 as well.

cybear

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:36:10 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

YOur the moron that made the pathetic claim, win troll. Never mind your
statement is still nonsense. But I don't expect much from an outlook user

Dave Leigh

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Dec 16, 2002, 4:30:55 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote on Monday 16 December 2002 03:27 in message
<08gL9.74651$r4.65...@news1.west.cox.net>:

> Documentation ? What happened to intuitive ? Windows XP did not need any
> documentation. Mac OS X does not need any documentation. I cry foul.

I must've misunderstood you to mean you wanted to learn something. For
quite a lot of routine use you won't need the documentation. For instance,
if what you want to do is get your email and write letters and the like
you'd be just fine using kmail and OpenOffice and never looking at a doc.

That's why I said DON'T read it... find out where it is. But I think we've
already covered the ground about the home market. There are some things as
an early adopter that you're may have to learn to do. That's what the
documentation is for. In exploring it, you'll find that you're capable of
doing things you'd NEVER find out about as a Windows newbie. That's the
advantage of *having* those docs.

cybear

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:38:06 AM12/16/02
to
Jeff wrote:

His brain. It just works for me.

cybear

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:39:11 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

>
> "ÐØÜG.M" <nos...@nospam.org> wrote in message

Snicker, Yeah, I'll bet that is the main question everyone asks when buying
a computer! Snicker, What a wintroll.

cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:39:05 AM12/16/02
to

"cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:_fgL9.341$Zs3.31...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

I could reboot and reply in Linux if I really wanted to be impressive. Just
like yesterday.


cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:43:34 AM12/16/02
to

"ĐŘÜG.M" <nos...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:yggL9.245700$GR5....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...

> cfswestern wrote:
>
> >
> >
>
> I am using the lastest Flash beta provide by TexStar that allows you to
run
> shockwave enabled sites. That and am using Java 1.3.1 as well.
>
>

That makes it perfectly clear. Flash beta, provided by TexStar, shockwave
enabled, Java 1.3.1 as well. Why didn't I think of that ? Thanks. As soon
as I figure out what that means I will get right on it.


ÐØÜG.M

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Dec 16, 2002, 3:49:14 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

>
> "ÐØÜG.M" <nos...@nospam.org> wrote in message


To bad it's been nice... :)

http://dsfh24.hypermart.net/Works4Me.jpg

ÐØÜG.M

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 3:50:19 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

> I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure. Even with
> a cable modem that was configured without me lifting a finger it still
> needs
> some work. About two years worth would be my guess.It does just what it
> wants to do and refuses to do anything else worse than any version of
> Windows or Mac ever has. It could not even handle www.playsite.com and
> play a stupid Scrabble game.

> Keep it in the scientific workstation until it is ready to be out among
> normal people instead of making promises everyone knows it cannot keep. Do
> some SETI with it until it has a decent interface. Or fold some human
> genomes. Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with
> less than three full years of higher education in computer science. That
> would be about what it takes to run Linux on a computer without some IT
> personnel behind you.

cybear

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 4:05:58 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

Whooo, hooo, I can't reboot into Windows because Linux IS a viable desktop
for anyone but wintrolls.

Rick

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 6:19:09 AM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 02:04:41 -0500, cfswestern wrote:


> "Richard Revis" <spamsentto...@bottest.com> wrote in message
> news:atjtm4$141q1q$1...@ID-126341.news.dfncis.de...
>>
>>

>> > Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with less
>> > than three full years of higher education in computer science.
>>

>> It requires about three years of primary school and the ability to use
>> a text editor. Oh, and a modicum of patience.
>>
>>
> It may not be quite as bad as I made out but it certainly is no picnic
> in the park either.

-NO- OS is a picnic in the park.

> All that techie stuff may look good but it sure
> does not work like a Mac or a Windows when you click on it.

window$ doesn't work like a Mac, a Mac doesn't work like window$ and
Mac.window$ and Linux do not work like each other.

> But it does not reboot either.

What?


> It just sits there and makes you feel stupid.

How does it -make you- feel stupid?

> And that command line stuff has got to go.

Why?
--
Rick

Peter Hayes

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 7:40:33 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

> Documentation ? What happened to intuitive ? Windows XP did not need any
> documentation. Mac OS X does not need any documentation. I cry foul.

This is a common falsehood perpetuated by non-thinking users. Nothing, but
/nothing/ in the computer world is intuitive. Not even the mouse.

http://rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_mice.shtm

You have learnt how to use Microsoft OSs, XP is merely more of the same.

Same applies to OS X, despite what Maccies would like us to believe.

Nothing in this world is "intuitive", except perhaps your mother's nipple.

--

Peter

Remove NOSPAM. to e-mail

d2002xx

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 7:55:26 AM12/16/02
to
The little girl ""cfswestern" <cfswe...@lvcm.com>" cried:

> I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure.
||

my box isn't counted?

> Even with a cable modem that was configured without me lifting a finger it
> still needs some work.

so?

> About two years worth would be my guess.It does just what it wants to do and
> refuses to do anything else worse than any version of Windows or Mac ever
> has. It could not even handle www.playsite.com and play a stupid Scrabble
> game.

If the game is stupid, why do you want to play it? Does this imply something?
;-)

> Keep it in the scientific workstation until it is ready to be out among
> normal people

You mean, people here are abnormal?

> instead of making promises everyone knows it cannot keep. Do some SETI with
> it until it has a decent interface.

But my interface is just damned cool and efficient and easy to use. For example,
in windows the users have to move the mouse, clicking on the menu (and usually
repeat several times) to launch applications, while in my box, just press two
keys (Win+XXXXX).

> Or fold some human genomes. Just do not portray it as an operating system for


> people with less than three full years of higher education in computer
> science.

But the school just never teaches me to use linux, or any Unix-like OS.

> That would be about what it takes to run Linux on a computer without some IT
> personnel behind you.

But I'm not.

--
d2002xx
COLA wintroll-feeder #1

"Non-free software is wrong and we do not want it in our lives" -- RHS

d2002xx

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 7:56:50 AM12/16/02
to
The little girl "drsquare <a@b.c>" cried:

> begin On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:36:01 GMT, in
> comp.os.linux.advocacy,


> ("cfswestern" <cfswe...@lvcm.com>) wrote:
>
>>genomes. Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with less
>>than three full years of higher education in computer science.
>

> Er, I don't have ANY higher education in computer science,
> and I can run it.

but you suck on it.

Sinister Midget

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 9:48:18 AM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:36:01 GMT, cfswe...@lvcm.com drooled and scribbled:
> I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure. Even with a

> cable modem that was configured without me lifting a finger it still needs
> some work. About two years worth would be my guess.It does just what it

> wants to do and refuses to do anything else worse than any version of
> Windows or Mac ever has. It could not even handle www.playsite.com and play
> a stupid Scrabble game.
> Keep it in the scientific workstation until it is ready to be out among
> normal people instead of making promises everyone knows it cannot keep. Do
> some SETI with it until it has a decent interface. Or fold some human

> genomes. Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with less
> than three full years of higher education in computer science. That would be

> about what it takes to run Linux on a computer without some IT personnel
> behind you.

Damn!! I guess I have to uninstall it now.

I thought it was working all of these years. Yeah, I had to download
and install something once in awhile (just like on WinDoze), and
sometimes something I installed didn't meet my expectations (far less
often than on WinDoze), and in the rare instance, something wouldn't
work well or at all (rarer than with WinDoze). But, I was under the
impression that it was mostly working. I could browse the internet,
read newsgroups, send/receive email, write letters, play music, monitor
temperature sensors, monitor battery status (when I used to use
laptop), manipulate graphics, create graphics, download and install
software, burn CDs, just about everything imaginable. You know, desktop
stuff, not servers and firewalls and compiling and configuring. yeah, I
did that stuff too, but it was the desktop thingies that had me going
for awhile there. Especially since there was so much of it, and most of
it worked without having to download it (it was already there), or
configuring it (the installer took care of most all of it) or buying a
bunch of new stuff (practically all of it came with the CDs, which cost
me, well, nothing). Those few things that gave me problems were easy to
fix owing to there being documentation everywhere, and tons of mailing
lists and newsgroups to fall back on if I didn't really understand
something, or if something was being particularly finicky. See, I was
used to Windoze, where if it didn't work it likely never would. So it
really fooled me a lot when I managed to get everything I had to work,
even the pesky ones that didn't work just right after the install was
finished.

You _can_ see why I might be fooled into thinking it was working right,
can't you?

Oh well, now I know. Guess I better go through a lot of hard-earned
cash at MICROS~1 so they can spy on me!!

--
"Came to believe that an operating system greater than Windows
(almost any) could restore us to sanity."
-- Windows Anonymous 12-Step Program, Step 2

Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:21:41 AM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> It could not even handle www.playsite.com and
> play a stupid Scrabble game.

I had no problems playing games on this site. I did discover that I suck
at Battleship, however.
--
Tattoo Vampire, Esq.
Owner & Proprietor, Trollus Amongus, Inc. XP owner but a Linux user
For all you do, this troll's for YOU! Remove "comorgbiz" if emailing

Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:23:54 AM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh Jeff:

> So what does not work?

From what I gather the Scrabble plugin for Mozilla doesn't work on his end.

Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:29:21 AM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> I think it was closer to 1995 when I started reading about how Linux was
> so secure and unbloated and easy to master that it would be taking over a
> desktop near you. Now you are saying more like 2005. Whoever is in charge
> better get busy between now and 2005. From the layman standpoint it looks
> like the CLI has been replaced by a lot of unintelligible things that
> start with / Now just get rid of the / and try a nice point and click
> interface that has been around for quite some time and you may be in
> business. Don't matter that much to me, just trying to make an
> observation.

The person just starting out with LInux never needs to see the /, they can
set up and maintain their system entirely from the GUI. So why are you
looking at the /? Point and click; well, there's KDE, Gnome, IceWM,
Windowmaker...

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:29:51 AM12/16/02
to

"cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:WHgL9.300$%C3.18...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...

> >
> Whooo, hooo, I can't reboot into Windows because Linux IS a viable desktop
> for anyone but wintrolls.

Sure it is viable, it is just quirky and difficult and lacks quality
applications. But people are still working on it so who knows ?


Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:37:38 AM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> Documentation ? What happened to intuitive ? Windows XP did not need any
> documentation. Mac OS X does not need any documentation. I cry foul.

Huh??? You're used to Windoze by now, but when it first appeared you had to
read the docs to learn how it worked. Same with MacOS.

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:35:56 AM12/16/02
to

<flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:md6rvusehobnif2uj...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 08:25:36 GMT, "cfswestern" <cfswe...@lvcm.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> ><flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
> >news:f02rvukmraf0s3v9f...@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:36:01 GMT, "cfswestern" <cfswe...@lvcm.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> Some of you elitist types need to be taken down off your high exalted
> >> horses and brought back to the reality of the rest of the population,
> >> which is somewhere over 90 percent, that just wants to view websites
> >> and not have to learn programming to do so.
> >>
> >>
> >The elitists can always say that too much download and install will lead
to
> >virus and trojan problems. So they do not feature surf and click and
> >download and install. It is interesting because it becomes a question of
> >what did not come first, did the chicken not come first or did the egg
not
> >come first ?
>
>
> Linux or Windows it makes no difference because in many cases the
> person has to be root/Admin to install the plugin anyway.
>
> So, either you trust the plugin, on both systems, or you do without
> the webpage.
>
>
>
When you install Mandrake with a internet hookup active is connects to
Mandrake and they want your name and stuff like that. WPA and spyware and
updates rolled into one. Same as the modern version of Windows without the
hardware support and quality applications. And it takes too long to get
started and too long to shut down. However the price is right. They charge
what it is worth.


Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:39:54 AM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> That makes it perfectly clear. Flash beta, provided by TexStar, shockwave
> enabled, Java 1.3.1 as well. Why didn't I think of that ? Thanks. As
> soon as I figure out what that means I will get right on it.

It means you install plugins for your browser, what's to figure out? Even
XP doesn't ship with Java anymore.

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:42:06 AM12/16/02
to

"ĐŘÜG.M" <nos...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:WsgL9.367272$WL3.112695@rwcrnsc54...

I can see how the DMCA could be a big problem. Heaven forbid you should pay
for something or use it in the proper manner.


cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:47:51 AM12/16/02
to

"Sinister Midget" <xu...@kc-rr.com> wrote in message
news:ai51d-...@home.harry.net...
Mandrake already spied on me and did things I did not especially want it to
do. I have Mandrake 8 CD's. But since I installed with a cable modem
hooked up it got all the Mandrake 9 stuff and so I have Mandrake 9 even
though I tried to install the one I used before with some success. Stupid
back door,call home, automatic upgrade system. Sounds like that other OS.
Next time I am going to get smart and disconnect the cable modem when I
install it.


cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:56:51 AM12/16/02
to

"Tattoo Vampire" <t...@tattoovampire.netcomorgbiz> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@tattoovampire.ziggynet2...

> Thus speaketh cfswestern:
>
> > That makes it perfectly clear. Flash beta, provided by TexStar,
shockwave
> > enabled, Java 1.3.1 as well. Why didn't I think of that ? Thanks. As
> > soon as I figure out what that means I will get right on it.
>
> It means you install plugins for your browser, what's to figure out? Even
> XP doesn't ship with Java anymore.
> --
>
Does that Java and Flash exist for Linux ? Not that Playsite is any big deal
it was just the first thing I tried after www and usenet and it would not
work. Boo hoo.


Werner Purrer

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 10:54:05 AM12/16/02
to
"cfswestern" <cfswe...@lvcm.com> wrote in
news:ivmL9.77333$r4.66...@news1.west.cox.net:

>
> I can see how the DMCA could be a big problem. Heaven forbid you
> should pay for something or use it in the proper manner.
>
>

DMCA has a wider implication than what you assume, look at the cases of
Prof. Felten and other things where it was just plainly used to silence
people.

The most hilarious case occurrec recently where a company sued
a webite for posting their prices on the net, under the DMCA!

Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 11:21:42 AM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> Does that Java and Flash exist for Linux ?

Obviously, or you wouldn't have people posting saying they had played
games on the site with their Linux browsers...

Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 11:24:42 AM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> Sure it is viable, it is just quirky and difficult and lacks quality
> applications.

Yep. Kmail sucks.
So does Evolution.
So does Pan.
So does KNode.
So does KOffice.
So does OpenOffice.
So does Mozilla, Galeon, and Konqueror.
So does Nautilus.

But stupid me, I thought they were great apps; I wonder why? Because they
look good, work well, are fast and stable, and do everything I need?
Thanks for the heads-up. :-P

Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 11:27:47 AM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> When you install Mandrake with a internet hookup active is connects to
> Mandrake and they want your name and stuff like that.

As you're well aware, it's a strictly VOLUNTARY registration, and refusing
to sign up doesn't deactivate your OS after a period of time like that
"other" OS you speak of.

BTW, if you've noticed my sig, I own XP; actually two copies, one for each
machine on the home LAN. I like XP a lot and think it's an excellent OS,
once you tweak the security settings, install a decent firewall, apply all
needed service packs and patches...

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 11:33:00 AM12/16/02
to

"Tattoo Vampire" <t...@tattoovampire.netcomorgbiz> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@tattoovampire.ziggynet2...
> Thus speaketh cfswestern:
>
> > Does that Java and Flash exist for Linux ?
>
> Obviously, or you wouldn't have people posting saying they had played
> games on the site with their Linux browsers...
> --
>
Well,yeah,if you want to get all technical about it.


cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 11:38:18 AM12/16/02
to

"Tattoo Vampire" <t...@tattoovampire.netcomorgbiz> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@tattoovampire.ziggynet2...
>
>
> BTW, if you've noticed my sig, I own XP; actually two copies, one for each
> machine on the home LAN. I like XP a lot and think it's an excellent OS,
> once you tweak the security settings, install a decent firewall, apply all
> needed service packs and patches...
> --
>
All that security stuff makes me laugh out loud. Like if somebody had
something important on a PC they would really connect it to the internet in
the first place. But since you cannot prove a negative people load up on
all of that stuff because it makes them feel better. That Melissa and
CodeRed stuff was done with years ago. It is all FUD.


cybear

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 11:48:55 AM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

Your opinion. And who cares about the opinion of yet another wintroll.

BTW, Walmart is doing so well with the Linux PC on the website they are
bringing them to the stores. Guess a LOT of people disagree with you.

cybear

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 11:49:29 AM12/16/02
to
Tattoo Vampire wrote:

> Thus speaketh cfswestern:
>
>> Sure it is viable, it is just quirky and difficult and lacks quality
>> applications.
>
> Yep. Kmail sucks.
> So does Evolution.
> So does Pan.
> So does KNode.
> So does KOffice.
> So does OpenOffice.
> So does Mozilla, Galeon, and Konqueror.
> So does Nautilus.
>
> But stupid me, I thought they were great apps; I wonder why? Because they
> look good, work well, are fast and stable, and do everything I need?
> Thanks for the heads-up. :-P

AND FREE.

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 11:51:00 AM12/16/02
to

"cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:XtnL9.273$vh1.27...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

Walmart is forward thinking. And the Linux PCs they are are preconfigured
which is a good thing.


cybear

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:06:26 PM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

> All that security stuff makes me laugh out loud. Like if somebody had
> something important on a PC they would really connect it to the internet
> in the first place.

And this comment shows how little you know...

cybear

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:09:46 PM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

> That Melissa and
> CodeRed stuff was done with years ago.

Done with years ago? Shows you how little you realy know...

[Mon Dec 9 19:16:32 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/root.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:33 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/MSADC/root.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:34 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/c/winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:35 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/d/winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:35 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:36 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist:
/var/www/html/_vti_bin/..%5c../..%5c../..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:37 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist:
/var/www/html/_mem_bin/..%5c../..%5c../..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:38 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist:
/var/www/html/msadc/..%5c../..%5c../..%5c/..Á../..Á../..Á../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:39 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..Á../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:40 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..À¯../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:40 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..Á../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:41 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:16:41 2002] [error] [client 63.225.102.104] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..%2f../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:13 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/root.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:13 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/MSADC/root.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:13 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/c/winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:14 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/d/winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:14 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:14 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist:
/var/www/html/_vti_bin/..%5c../..%5c../..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:14 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist:
/var/www/html/_mem_bin/..%5c../..%5c../..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:14 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist:
/var/www/html/msadc/..%5c../..%5c../..%5c/..Á../..Á../..Á../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:14 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..Á../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:14 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..À¯../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:15 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..Á../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:15 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..%5c../winnt/system32/cmd.exe
[Mon Dec 9 19:48:15 2002] [error] [client 63.147.81.142] File does not
exist: /var/www/html/scripts/..%2f../winnt/system32/cmd.exe

S C Rigler

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:00:50 PM12/16/02
to
In article <_jnL9.77421$r4.66...@news1.west.cox.net>, cfswestern wrote:
> All that security stuff makes me laugh out loud. Like if somebody had
> something important on a PC they would really connect it to the internet in
> the first place. But since you cannot prove a negative people load up on
> all of that stuff because it makes them feel better. That Melissa and
> CodeRed stuff was done with years ago. It is all FUD.

Right...CodeRed years ago...

[root@sluggo httpd]# awk '/default\.ida/ {print $1 $2 $3 $4 $5}' access_log
63.142.186.27--[15/Dec/2002:05:11:17-0600]
209.190.235.22--[15/Dec/2002:16:25:29-0600]
193.249.37.183--[15/Dec/2002:20:50:05-0600]
207.74.113.65--[16/Dec/2002:00:07:06-0600]
148.223.119.179--[16/Dec/2002:03:47:00-0600]

You forgot Nimda too...haven't seen a hit from that one in, oh say, about
3 minutes...

I have noticed that hits from ttfload.vbs have dropped off...wouldn't have
anything to do with my ISP blocking port 139, I'm sure.

-S

Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:04:04 PM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> All that security stuff makes me laugh out loud. Like if somebody had
> something important on a PC they would really connect it to the internet in
> the first place. But since you cannot prove a negative people load up on
> all of that stuff because it makes them feel better. That Melissa and
> CodeRed stuff was done with years ago. It is all FUD.

Your trolling is becoming painfully transparent.

cybear

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:13:03 PM12/16/02
to
cfswestern wrote:

>
> "cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:XtnL9.273$vh1.27...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> cfswestern wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> > news:WHgL9.300$%C3.18...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>> >> >
>> >> Whooo, hooo, I can't reboot into Windows because Linux IS a viable
>> >> desktop for anyone but wintrolls.
>> >
>> > Sure it is viable, it is just quirky and difficult and lacks quality
>> > applications. But people are still working on it so who knows ?
>>
>> Your opinion. And who cares about the opinion of yet another wintroll.
>>
>> BTW, Walmart is doing so well with the Linux PC on the website they are
>> bringing them to the stores. Guess a LOT of people disagree with you.
>
> Walmart is forward thinking. And the Linux PCs they are are preconfigured
> which is a good thing.

And VERY successful at selling VIABLE Linux PC's to a non-technical world.
Proving your original claim wrong.

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:17:14 PM12/16/02
to

"Tattoo Vampire" <t...@tattoovampire.netcomorgbiz> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@tattoovampire.ziggynet2...
> Thus speaketh cfswestern:
>
> > All that security stuff makes me laugh out loud. Like if somebody had
> > something important on a PC they would really connect it to the internet
in
> > the first place. But since you cannot prove a negative people load up
on
> > all of that stuff because it makes them feel better. That Melissa and
> > CodeRed stuff was done with years ago. It is all FUD.
>
> Your trolling is becoming painfully transparent.
> --
>
Since I have nothing significant on this computer I have had it hooked up to
a cable modem and almost always on for 11 months. Absolutely no anti-virus
or firewall hardware or software at all. And no problems either. But other
people say differently and they cannot all be wrong. And I also know every
time I have to troubleshoot somebody's home PC I see something like KaZaa on
it where they probably joyfully download problem software.

But I digress. I got my Star Office installed and am ever closer to the
perfect Linux setup. If I did not clown around on these newsgroups so much
it would have been perfect days ago. I just need to get Mozilla as the WWW
and newsgroup reader. Then I need to find a DVD movie viewer. And then a CD
burner. If I knew what I was doing it would probably take about 10 minutes.
Somebody posted a list for me and I have to find it again. Or perhaps
Mandrake has a point and click library for newbie types. Cannot be that
difficult.


cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:25:41 PM12/16/02
to

"cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:zQnL9.256$Uf5.44...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...

Okay I was wrong. I think Walmart PC is perfect. It would be neato if some
school system ordered about a gross of them and got rid of that
proprietary stuff.


Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:29:19 PM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> Walmart is forward thinking. And the Linux PCs they are are preconfigured
> which is a good thing.

Jeez, Windoze machines come preconfigured, don't they?

Jimbo

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:28:24 PM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:47:51 +0000, cfswestern wrote the following
definition of FUD:


> Mandrake already spied on me and did things I did not especially want it to
> do. I have Mandrake 8 CD's. But since I installed with a cable modem
> hooked up it got all the Mandrake 9 stuff and so I have Mandrake 9 even
> though I tried to install the one I used before with some success. Stupid
> back door,call home, automatic upgrade system. Sounds like that other OS.
> Next time I am going to get smart and disconnect the cable modem when I
> install it.

You do realise you just proved yourself a lying idiot, don't you?
The updates with Mandrake are not automatic.
First, at the end of the install, is asks if you want to do an update. You
have to decide whether or not to accept.
Next, you're given the option of which server to use. Again, you decide.
Then, you get a dialogue from which you can accept or decline the updates
you wish.
Finally, at the bottom of the dialogue you're given the choice whether to
continue or or decline the update. It is not necissary to accept the
updates in order to have a full functioning and safe system.
This is far from meeting the criteria for spyware. But, you knew that.
You fail. Your attempted troll was unsuccessful.
I feel sorry for you. To fail so miserably at something as easy as using
Linux, then to compound that failure with with an easily disspellible lie.
This says something about abismal must be the rest of your life.

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:31:39 PM12/16/02
to

"Tattoo Vampire" <t...@tattoovampire.netcomorgbiz> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@tattoovampire.ziggynet2...
> Thus speaketh cfswestern:
>
> > Walmart is forward thinking. And the Linux PCs they are are
preconfigured
> > which is a good thing.
>
> Jeez, Windoze machines come preconfigured, don't they?
> --
>
Unfortunately. Compaq is the worst for having them preconfigured with junk
software.


Tattoo Vampire

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:35:04 PM12/16/02
to
Thus speaketh cfswestern:

> Since I have nothing significant on this computer I have had it hooked up to
> a cable modem and almost always on for 11 months. Absolutely no anti-virus
> or firewall hardware or software at all. And no problems either. But other
> people say differently and they cannot all be wrong. And I also know every
> time I have to troubleshoot somebody's home PC I see something like KaZaa on
> it where they probably joyfully download problem software.

All I know is, I can look at my firewall's logs and see several dozen
attempts made daily to snoop on my LAN. To assume these attempts are all
benign or someone just playing around would be dumb.

Your own system may never be compromised; I would say that most people
surfing the web via a broadband connection without "protection" will never
see any type of attack. Myself, I don't want to take a chance, no matter
how slight, of someone hijacking my machines.

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:38:42 PM12/16/02
to

"cybear" <cyb...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:mKnL9.253$Uf5.44...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...

I have devised the perfect security system. Just divide the hard drive in
two and put two different operating systems on it. Decide which one is for
serious work and which one is for internet surfing. Foolproof. Even
notebooks come with minimum 20 G hard drives these days. On a desktop it is
even easier because you can use separate hard drives.


Jimbo

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:39:26 PM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:35:56 +0000, cfswestern wrote another load of crap:

> When you install Mandrake with a internet hookup active is connects to

> Mandrake and they want your name and stuff like that. WPA and spyware and
> updates rolled into one. Same as the modern version of Windows without the
> hardware support and quality applications. And it takes too long to get
> started and too long to shut down. However the price is right. They charge
> what it is worth.

When Mandrake requests your name and other info, it is your option to
provide the info or not. Refusing this request does not damage the
software or negate your ability to recieve updadates.
You fail again.

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 12:41:51 PM12/16/02
to

<flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:3n2svuct6fl5ofh08...@4ax.com...
> On 16 Dec 2002 09:54:05 -0600, Werner Purrer <we...@operamail.com>
> This is very true and we all have to band together and get the word
> out.
>
>
Bah, nobody really needs to be cracking books and movies and recorded music.


cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 1:03:54 PM12/16/02
to

"Jimbo" <jdwo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@cox.net...

>
> This is far from meeting the criteria for spyware. But, you knew that.
> You fail. Your attempted troll was unsuccessful.
> I feel sorry for you. To fail so miserably at something as easy as using
> Linux, then to compound that failure with with an easily disspellible lie.
> This says something about abismal must be the rest of your life.

Gee, you don't have to get all personal about it. And I did not fail at
using Linux, I just have not finished setting it up properly.


Francesco Petrarch

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 1:37:54 PM12/16/02
to
In article <md6rvusehobnif2uj...@4ax.com>,
flat...@linuxmail.org wrote:
>
> Linux or Windows it makes no difference because in many cases the
> person has to be root/Admin to install the plugin anyway.
>

False. You can install plugins under Linux in your home directory,
without being root.

Francesco Petrarch

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 1:44:00 PM12/16/02
to
Hah, yea. First order of business; reformat.

Francesco Petrarch

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 1:45:21 PM12/16/02
to
In article <pan.2002.12.16....@notmail.com>, Jeff wrote:
>
> The command line stuff is not that bad! If I can learn to use Linux CLI
> than anyone can.

Hear hear!

Werner Purrer

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 1:37:15 PM12/16/02
to
"cfswestern" <cfswe...@lvcm.com> wrote in
news:zfoL9.77447$r4.66...@news1.west.cox.net:

>> This is very true and we all have to band together and get the word
>> out.
>>
>>
> Bah, nobody really needs to be cracking books and movies and recorded
> music.
>

ahem silence cryptography researchers and price posting websites
has nothing to do with cracking books anymore...

Francesco Petrarch

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 1:51:34 PM12/16/02
to

How can you expect people to take you seriously after what is at best
rampant hyperbole, and at worst outright lying?

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 1:53:05 PM12/16/02
to

"Francesco Petrarch" <petr...@freeshell.org> wrote in message
news:slrnavs7nd....@iceland.freeshell.org...

You got that right. I had a Compaq notebook that had some Cyberblade video
chip and they did not publish the drivers at that time. So I had to
laboriously go through the "restore discs" to find the various drivers. PITA
Then I reformatted and had an empty 6 G hard drive. My niece is using it in
college now. K6 475 CPU, 96MB memory,WindowsXP and it works perfectly for
her so far.


cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 2:04:25 PM12/16/02
to

"Francesco Petrarch" <petr...@freeshell.org> wrote in message
news:slrnavs85j....@iceland.freeshell.org...

I do not care how any strangers take anything. I just want free advice from
experts :-) I sorta figured out that I am my own worst enemy right from
the go when I try to wedge two or three OS on one hard drive. So I am going
to go out and get a hard drive just for Linux. None of this business of two
hard drives on one PC either. Just a completely dedicated 40 or 60 Gb hard
drive. That way I can check almost all of the options at the install
except for scientific workstation and server which would be pointless. I
know I like Gnome better than KDE and Mozilla better than anything else.
Just a small matter of getting a proper setup to start with. An empty hard
drive would be a good place to start I think. I know all the rest of my
hardware bits work perfectly so no worries there.


Francesco Petrarch

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 2:07:04 PM12/16/02
to
In article <fk8svukqkvr2edf51...@4ax.com>,
flat...@linuxmail.org wrote:
> Maybe with a discrete manual download and install of the file but with
> the automatic installer, like from the shockwave site, it doesn't work
> at least not with SuSE.

I'm simply pointing out that you don't *need* to be root to install the
plugin.

BTW, copying a .so file into your plugins directory isn't hard.

Jimbo

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 3:19:14 PM12/16/02
to

So, basically, you're saying that it isn't that linux isn't ready. It's
that you didn't finish setting it up.
So, what's with the FUD and lies?
Here's a test. Take two people who have never used computers. Give one a
comercial release of Linux(Mandrake 9.0 Power Pack edition, for instance)
and the other a copy of WinXP Pro /plus/ a copy of OfficeXP.
With about 15 minutes of instruction plus pointers through the install
process, both will be able to get thier system up and running.
However, in the amount of time it takes the Win user to install Windows,
Office and updates, then locate, d/l, install and configure replacements
for OE and IE, the Linux user will be able to install, update and lock
down the system, configure email and news, surf the web a bit, use Star
Office to write a document, install and configure Ogle or MPlayer and be
kicked back and watching a DVD.
Additionally, the Linux system will provide 10 times the
software/functionality for less than 10% of the price of the Windows
software.
Something you need to remember. Linux isn't Windows. You can't expect it
to work identically to Windows. This is the only problem I see for users
switching from Windows to Linux on the desktop. The fact that, to switch
from one to the other, you have to retrain in the way you do things.
Linux is not intuitive. Niether is Windows. However, on both, the more you
learn, the more intuitive each seem to become.

Sinister Midget

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 4:12:16 PM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:47:51 GMT, cfswe...@lvcm.com drooled and scribbled:
>
> "Sinister Midget" <xu...@kc-rr.com> wrote in message
> news:ai51d-...@home.harry.net...
>> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 06:36:01 GMT, cfswe...@lvcm.com drooled and
> scribbled:
>> > I have determined that Linux on the home computer is a failure. Even
> with a
>> > cable modem that was configured without me lifting a finger it still
> needs
>> > some work. About two years worth would be my guess.It does just what it
>> > wants to do and refuses to do anything else worse than any version of
>> > Windows or Mac ever has. It could not even handle www.playsite.com and
> play
>> > a stupid Scrabble game.
>> > Keep it in the scientific workstation until it is ready to be out among
>> > normal people instead of making promises everyone knows it cannot keep.
> Do
>> > some SETI with it until it has a decent interface. Or fold some human
>> > genomes. Just do not portray it as an operating system for people with
> less
>> > than three full years of higher education in computer science. That
> would be
>> > about what it takes to run Linux on a computer without some IT personnel
>> > behind you.
>>
>> Damn!! I guess I have to uninstall it now.
>>
>> I thought it was working all of these years. Yeah, I had to download
>> and install something once in awhile (just like on WinDoze), and
>> sometimes something I installed didn't meet my expectations (far less
>> often than on WinDoze), and in the rare instance, something wouldn't
>> work well or at all (rarer than with WinDoze). But, I was under the
>> impression that it was mostly working. I could browse the internet,
>> read newsgroups, send/receive email, write letters, play music, monitor
>> temperature sensors, monitor battery status (when I used to use
>> laptop), manipulate graphics, create graphics, download and install
>> software, burn CDs, just about everything imaginable. You know, desktop
>> stuff, not servers and firewalls and compiling and configuring. yeah, I
>> did that stuff too, but it was the desktop thingies that had me going
>> for awhile there. Especially since there was so much of it, and most of
>> it worked without having to download it (it was already there), or
>> configuring it (the installer took care of most all of it) or buying a
>> bunch of new stuff (practically all of it came with the CDs, which cost
>> me, well, nothing). Those few things that gave me problems were easy to
>> fix owing to there being documentation everywhere, and tons of mailing
>> lists and newsgroups to fall back on if I didn't really understand
>> something, or if something was being particularly finicky. See, I was
>> used to Windoze, where if it didn't work it likely never would. So it
>> really fooled me a lot when I managed to get everything I had to work,
>> even the pesky ones that didn't work just right after the install was
>> finished.
>>
>> You _can_ see why I might be fooled into thinking it was working right,
>> can't you?
>>
>> Oh well, now I know. Guess I better go through a lot of hard-earned
>> cash at MICROS~1 so they can spy on me!!
>>
>> --

>>
> Mandrake already spied on me and did things I did not especially want it to
> do. I have Mandrake 8 CD's. But since I installed with a cable modem
> hooked up it got all the Mandrake 9 stuff and so I have Mandrake 9 even
> though I tried to install the one I used before with some success. Stupid
> back door,call home, automatic upgrade system. Sounds like that other OS.
> Next time I am going to get smart and disconnect the cable modem when I
> install it.

Maybe I'm wrong because I never tried such things with Mandrake.

I'm guessing before it "spied" on you and upgraded things that you
didn't want, you took some sort of action that told it to update
things. Am I warm? Maybe you told it to specifically gets fixes for
some things you already had installed? And maybe it upgraded you to 9
because that is the ultimate upgrade to those things you already had on
the box?

If I'm even remotely close, I'd have to take issue with what you seem
to be defining as "spying' in this instance. There may or may not be
something to complain about if it did things as I described. But it
would hardly constitute anything remotely along the lines of "spying".

Now, let's compare this to MICROS~1 Win*DOH*s. If you go download some
updates to fix any one or more of their many, many problems, I don't
think that could be considered to be spying. This can be done (probably
is, too) without any detection of who you are or what you're doing.
However, if one or more updates to their many, many problems also
includes things that can (and are) used to phone home every time you go
on-line, or whenever you do certain things (say, like download music),
that type of activity would definitely fall under the category of
"spying" without question. This is precisely what Micro-Soft has done,
and precisely what they've admitted to doing concerning music downloads
(though they still deny they have any untoward purposes for doing so).
They still officially deny that they install spyware, even though it's
been demonstrated a number of times by others, plus there is more than
ample circumstantial evidence for even the casual user to observe
unassisted. And, I might add, they officially denied the collecting of
information about musical tastes and downloads for awhile, as well.
They just finally 'fessed-up after AP printed information about it.

So, I guess the question is, what evidence do you have that Mandrake
does spy or has spied on you? If it was simply updating things that you
told it to update, that can't possibly be considered spying.

I could live with a definition of buggy if, you told it to get errata
and in upgraded the whole OS; if you were offered some options about
upgrading, you picked one and it installed something else; or if you
had reason to believe it was going to do anything other than upgrade
everything from the latest release. But I still wouldn't refer to that
as spying since it doesn't continually collect information from you,
about you, about what you do, about your likes and dislikes, stores
information all over your PC that you can't know about and can't
eliminate even if you discover it (like IE does all of the time) or
other, similar type activities.

Winders is much more along the lines of spyware by default. I don't
mean it automatically installs it (though I can point to evidence that
it does). Instead I'll make mention of spyware installation via updates
and service packs (SP1 disables media rights; how can it without spying
on your machine, irrespective of whether it forwards that information
on to $MONOPOLY or $CROOKED_RECORD_COMPANY or anyone else?), and the
"phone home" feature that has been demonstrated to exist in such highly
acclaimed super-secure and super-stable releases as eX-Pee. Plus it
enables others to install their own brand of spyware on your machine
quite easily.

Nothing at all comparable to what you seem to be claiming with
Mandrake.

--
Linux: Because you can!

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 4:18:37 PM12/16/02
to

"Jimbo" <jdwo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@cox.net...
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:03:54 +0000, cfswestern wrote:
>
> >
> > "Jimbo" <jdwo...@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2002.12.16....@cox.net...
> >>
> >> So, basically, you're saying that it isn't that linux isn't ready.
It's
> that you didn't finish setting it up.
> So, what's with the FUD and lies?
> Here's a test. Take two people who have never used computers. Give one a
> comercial release of Linux(Mandrake 9.0 Power Pack edition, for instance)
> and the other a copy of WinXP Pro /plus/ a copy of OfficeXP.
> With about 15 minutes of instruction plus pointers through the install
> process, both will be able to get thier system up and running.
> However, in the amount of time it takes the Win user to install Windows,
> Office and updates, then locate, d/l, install and configure replacements
> for OE and IE, the Linux user will be able to install, update and lock
> down the system, configure email and news, surf the web a bit, use Star
> Office to write a document, install and configure Ogle or MPlayer and be
> kicked back and watching a DVD.
> Additionally, the Linux system will provide 10 times the
> software/functionality for less than 10% of the price of the Windows
> software.
> Something you need to remember. Linux isn't Windows. You can't expect it
> to work identically to Windows. This is the only problem I see for users
> switching from Windows to Linux on the desktop. The fact that, to switch
> from one to the other, you have to retrain in the way you do things.
> Linux is not intuitive. Niether is Windows. However, on both, the more you
> learn, the more intuitive each seem to become.

I got a new hard drive now. So I have a better chance at getting it right
this time. I have never been defeated by a computer yet going back to the
Commodore 64. Beside what gets installed at the start I think I only need
about four things: DVD viewer,CD burner,Flash, and Java. The store I just
came from (Best Buy) had boxed Linux distros but I was too cheap to buy one.
Hardware is worth paying for but software is free. If I miss at the Java
thing it is no big deal because most people cheat at the Scrabble game
anyhow by consulting Ace Scrabble Wordfinder or some other anagram site.


cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 5:01:40 PM12/16/02
to

"Sinister Midget" <xu...@kc-rr.com> wrote in message
news:75s1d-...@home.harry.net...
I must have missed the memo that said a computer had to have an internet
connection to be useful. I have ran into some people who use a computer to
do something useful and a WebTV or MSNTV or whatever those appliances are
called for this fun stuff. I have read several reviews of the Walmart
Lindows/Mandrake $199 PC that suggest the same thing. A separate computer
from the one on which you are writing your doctoral thesis. But when I
suggest the same thing everyone always reacts like I am nuts. Well, they may
be right but that is besides the point here.

I am not sure what I think of XP even after all this time. Last year I was
in the good books with MS and they sent me a beta copy and I got to go to a
couple of launch parties. Since I dropped MSN they do not send me any
invites any longer. But I know XP will not play my beloved Motorhead car
racing game so it is not that great. It does offer a choice of FAT32 or
NTFS but thus far I have not seen the difference. I do know that some
little benchmark called SuperPi runs five seconds faster on XP. With WinME
the best time I could get was 1:14 to divide 7 into 22 out to the
one-millionth place. With XP it dropped to 1:09 which is just thrilling.

Linux is the same thing only different. It seems to have some sort of
modular plug in system where components can be added or removed by the /root
user instead of the convoluted registry system that Windows uses. I have not
gotten deeply into my investigation of Linux yet but I think I should never
have to uninstall it and reinstall it the way I do with Windows after it
gets screwed up. WindowsXP will freeze with just a couple of applications
running. I know that PowerDVD will screw it up if you open something like
OE and cover the screen where the DVD player is trying to show you the
movie. When the keyboard and mouse stop working you have to reboot. That
is one thing that fascinates me with this Linux. I want to see if I can
"multi-task" several things and sort of tab between them without it freezing
up and having to reboot. Like I do not watch a two hour movie in two hours.
I may watch ten minutes, pause it, check some newsgroups or something, then
resume it. WindowsXP does not like that. And for as much as it costs it
should include a DVD player and a CD/DVD burning application. All that
Windows Media Player does is play MP3's and AVI's and the like. And when
you think of it MP3 is a bootleg,illegal,reverse engineered format to begin
with. The record companies to not release MP3's. They release CD's which
have their own format. So the fact that WMP plays MP3's tells me that MS is
somewhat selective about DMCA and its implications.

If I ever used a sig line it should be "But I digress"


Francesco Petrarch

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 5:33:14 PM12/16/02
to
In article <sdgsvu0scgsa196u7...@4ax.com>,

flat...@linuxmail.org wrote:
>>
>>I'm simply pointing out that you don't *need* to be root to install
>>the plugin.
>>
>>BTW, copying a .so file into your plugins directory isn't hard.
>
>
> it is when you are logged in as a user and the file needs root
> privileges.
>

Umm, no. As a user, copy the *.so file into your Mozilla plugins
directory. Sit back and dress the dolls at your gaming via browser
website of choice.

Jim Richardson

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 3:49:13 PM12/16/02
to
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Do you think that is all the DMCA is being used to (try) and stop? it's
also being used to silence dissent, and prevent unhappy customers from
talking about their experiences with a particular company.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE9/jxJd90bcYOAWPYRAsVaAJ9iN03ti3NdwEF/QnVkHA+4oTnmogCfetKb
7pcBvPk1A//OWQx9EaYuyM0=
=tCV4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
A bad day, is when aliens attack, the dog bites you, and your boss tells
you that the new client wants to make a few changes before delivery.
Linux, super computers, office computers, or home computers, it works.

Francesco Petrarch

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 6:22:27 PM12/16/02
to
In article <3smsvukqtuu3rq97l...@4ax.com>,
flat...@linuxmail.org wrote:
> And you expect a new to Linux user to be able to know that and do
> that?

Read again what I wrote. I made a simple statement; that you didn't
need to be root to install plugins. I'm not commenting upon the ease of
doing this for a neophyte.

Jimbo

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 6:32:08 PM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:18:37 +0000, cfswestern wrote:

>
> I got a new hard drive now. So I have a better chance at getting it right
> this time. I have never been defeated by a computer yet going back to the
> Commodore 64. Beside what gets installed at the start I think I only need
> about four things: DVD viewer,CD burner,Flash, and Java. The store I just
> came from (Best Buy) had boxed Linux distros but I was too cheap to buy one.
> Hardware is worth paying for but software is free. If I miss at the Java
> thing it is no big deal because most people cheat at the Scrabble game
> anyhow by consulting Ace Scrabble Wordfinder or some other anagram site.

So far, I have no DVD experience. But, I've heard alot of good things
about Ogle and MPlayer. I use MPlayer for other videos and am impressed
with it. Also, Mandrake comes with Xine, although it's cripled due to DRM.
You can fix this with a patch though(not sure where to get it).
CD burners are easy. Several are included with Mandrake and the other
distros. My favorite is Xcdroast with the Eroaster GUI. There's also
cdrdao, gcombust and GnomeToaster.
Flash and Java were giving me fits. Until I stumbled on something. I
used apt to install Phoenix(another Mozilla based browser). The RPM was
compiled with Flash and Java. Once installed, I copied the contents of the
Plugins folder and pasted them into the plugins folders in Mozilla and
Galeon. It was a suprise, but it worked.
Keep in mind, I'm not the typical advocate. I'm a truck driver(currently
in occupational transition) and barely got out of high-school. I've only
been using computers for about 2 years and have been using Linux
exclusively only since August. Thus my attitude when I see sombody posting
the usual "Linux isn't ready, Linux isn't for the average user, Linux is
fine for servers, but not on the desktop" crap.

cfswestern

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 6:33:36 PM12/16/02
to

"Jim Richardson" <war...@eskimo.com> wrote in message
news:9rq1d-...@grendel.myth...
I think if you buy a product of any type and it does not work you should be
able to return it for a refund. But I do not think anyone should reverse
engineer a digital product. The DMCA may not be perfect in every regard and
every instance. But finding one flaw does not mean that every digital
product in the world is fair game. It seems like people extrapolate the GPL
and find flaws in well-meaning copyright laws and decide that every piece of
software or anything that can be reduced to software is ripe for the taking.
I think we have had this exchange before and neither of us is about to
change their mind. I know full well that in my country music and movies are
released on Tuesdays for some reason. And by Wednesday at the latest
everything that was released on Tuesday will be on KaZaa in one form or
another. Or some other peer sharing protocol. I do not cry myself to sleep
over it every Tuesday but it still is not right to do that with other
peoples' work. I can fully understand that people need a computer of some
type and internet access of some type to stay in step with everyone else.
But I do not see how any part of copyright laws are keeping anyone from
accessing the internet. There is a thousand times more free content legally
made available by the rightful owners than any one person can use. In
rounded off terms a music CD sells for about one USD per cut. And I believe
that anyone who can afford a computer and an ISP can afford to buy a CD once
in a while. So every ripped and downloaded MP3 on every PC in a country
where pop music is sold is the same as stealing a USD from someone. There
may be places on this Earth that do not have record stores but the problems
they have will not be solved by downloading MP3's or "Western" DVD movie
rip-offs. End of rant.


cfswestern

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Dec 16, 2002, 6:47:54 PM12/16/02
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"Jimbo" <jdwo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.12.16....@cox.net...

For some strange reason I do a little good-natured trolling from time to
time. Like I morphed the fact that I botched my Linux install into
something about how Linux is not quite ready for the consumer desktop. Of
course it is ready. Been ready ever since RedHat or whoever came out with
the first boxed distro with a manual and some level of support. If it is
"legal" for Java to be in Konqueror or Mozilla it should be there. If it is
illegal I am not sure I want it anymore. It is funny to see people who say
bad things about Bill Gates get all up in arms over any little criticism.


Jimbo

unread,
Dec 16, 2002, 7:53:52 PM12/16/02
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:56:47 +0000, flatfis wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:32:08 GMT, "Jimbo" <jdwo...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>>So far, I have no DVD experience. But, I've heard alot of good things
>>about Ogle and MPlayer. I use MPlayer for other videos and am impressed
>>with it. Also, Mandrake comes with Xine, although it's cripled due to DRM.
>>You can fix this with a patch though(not sure where to get it).
>

> Mplayer is a very good application.

Yes. It is.

>
>
>>CD burners are easy. Several are included with Mandrake and the other
>>distros. My favorite is Xcdroast with the Eroaster GUI. There's also
>>cdrdao, gcombust and GnomeToaster.
>

> gcombust is pretty good as well.
> I can't stand XCDroast.

Use it with the Eroaster front end. Very easy and user friendly.

>
>
>
>>Flash and Java were giving me fits. Until I stumbled on something. I
>>used apt to install Phoenix(another Mozilla based browser). The RPM was
>>compiled with Flash and Java. Once installed, I copied the contents of the
>>Plugins folder and pasted them into the plugins folders in Mozilla and
>>Galeon. It was a suprise, but it worked.
>

> Really now.
> You don't say :)
>
> Gee, everyone around says they "just work" and that "I'm doing
> something wrong :)

Not everyone. But it also isn't Linux. See below.

>
>
>>Keep in mind, I'm not the typical advocate. I'm a truck driver(currently
>>in occupational transition) and barely got out of high-school. I've only
>>been using computers for about 2 years and have been using Linux
>>exclusively only since August. Thus my attitude when I see sombody posting
>>the usual "Linux isn't ready, Linux isn't for the average user, Linux is
>>fine for servers, but not on the desktop" crap.
>
>

> Linux is ready for the desktop, it just needs to fine tune itself a
> bit.
>
> For example, you should not have had to do a thing to get those
> plugins to work.

You're right. I shouldn't have. If Macromedia and Sun would build distro
specific packages of Flash and Java, I wouldn't have found it necissary.
But, thanks to TexStar providing Netscape and Phoenix with Flash and Java
compiled, I was able.

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