[News] Mandriva Linux Works Perfectly Out of the Box (Including Stubborn WiFi)
Roy Schestowitz
Hash: SHA1
Mandriva 2008 - Best Linux for Laptop
,----[ Quote ]
| As I stated in my last post, I was working on getting my Laptop(LG RD400) to
| work with Linux. I was looking forward to some Linux Distribution that would
| support all my hardware out of the box, specially my WLAN(Wifi), as this is
| the only piece of hardware that is usually gives trouble with Linux.
`----
http://blog.earneasypro.com/2008/07/mandriva-2008-best-linux-for-laptop.html
Linux still has better hardware support than Windows (and not just Vista). No
need for driver disks and downloads.
Recent:
Linux Driver Project Status Report as of April 2008
,----[ Quote ]
| The Linux Driver Project (LDP) is alive and well, with over 300 developers
| wanting to participate, many drivers already written and accepted into the
| Linux kernel tree, and many more being currently developed. The main problem
| is a lack of projects. It turns out that there really isn't much hardware
| that Linux doesn't already support. Almost all new hardware produced is
| coming with a Linux driver already written by the company, or by the
| community with help from the company.
`----
http://lwn.net/Articles/276973/
Related:
Linux device driver project needs more unsupported devices to work on!
,----[ Quote ]
| The problem is that even though Kroah-Hartman and his developers are willing
| to sign NDAs (nondisclosure agreements) for companies that are reluctant to
| open up their devices to open source, businesses are still hanging
| back. "What we need now is more companies participating in the project,"
| Kroah-Hartman said.
|
| [...]
|
| He also wondered if the problem of Linux device drivers has been
| overstated...
`----
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6669895837.html
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DFS
> Linux still has better hardware support than Windows (and not just
> Vista).
Fantasies and lies and misplaced hope is how Linux lusers get through the
day:
* Linux won
* MS is doomed
* China/Brazil/half of Europe switched to Linux
* Linux has better hardware support than Windows
* MS stock has collapsed
* MS agents post to cola
* it costs $10000 per employee to upgrade MS Office
shmell...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Mandriva 2008 - Best Linux for Laptop
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
> | As I stated in my last post, I was working on getting my Laptop(LG RD400) to
> | work with Linux. I was looking forward to some Linux Distribution that would
> | support all my hardware out of the box, specially my WLAN(Wifi), as this is
> | the only piece of hardware that is usually gives trouble with Linux.
> `----
>
People all over the world pay extra for Windows and OSX operating
systems and software rather than use Linux, which is free! Linux has
failed year after year, it has been rejected repeatedly by the masses
despite being free! Windows and OSX take virtually 100% of the market
share.
Roy Schestowitz
Hash: SHA1
Flatfish (Gary M Stewart) nym wrote:
<nothing of substance>
*plonk*
- --
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | "The speed of time is one second per second"
http://Schestowitz.com | RHAT GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
19:00:01 up 6 days, 5:06, 1 user, load average: 0.60, 0.69, 0.67
http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine
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Rick
(snip)
>
> People all over the world pay extra for Windows and OSX operating
> systems and software rather than use Linux, which is free! Linux has
> failed year after year, it has been rejected repeatedly by the masses
> despite being free! Windows and OSX take virtually 100% of the market
> share.
Yup.. you just keep repeating your little justifications to yourself. Who
knows, someday you may start to believe yourself.
--
Rick
shmell...@hotmail.com
Rick, it is actually the other way around. You keep repeating your
little justifications to yourselves year after year. However, the
truth is: nobody uses Linux! Just look at the market share numbers,
they get worse every year. The facts speak for themselves. Wake up!
Moshe Goldfarb.
Better support for that DEC DaisyWheel printer I'm sure.
Or, of course if you happen to have a zSeries in your basement, Linux is
just the thing.
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Moshe Goldfarb.
Cue Rick to attempt to explain this away with the "herd mentality"
argument.
Linonut
> On Jul 27, 2:11 pm, Rick <n...@nomail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:22:02 -0700, shmell_dakaka wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>> > People all over the world pay extra for Windows and OSX operating
>> > systems and software rather than use Linux, which is free! Linux has
>> > failed year after year, it has been rejected repeatedly by the masses
>> > despite being free! Windows and OSX take virtually 100% of the market
>> > share.
Rejected? Where it has been offered, it has done pretty well (e.g. in
small sub-notebooks).
>> Yup.. you just keep repeating your little justifications to yourself. Who
>> knows, someday you may start to believe yourself.
>
> Rick, it is actually the other way around. You keep repeating your
> little justifications to yourselves year after year. However, the
> truth is: nobody uses Linux! Just look at the market share numbers,
> they get worse every year. The facts speak for themselves. Wake up!
Show us a downward trend, then.
I small caca.
--
Murder is contrary to the laws of man and God.
-- M-5 Computer, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3
Richard Rasker
> On Jul 27, 3:43 am, Roy Schestowitz <newsgro...@schestowitz.com>
> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Mandriva 2008 - Best Linux for Laptop
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>> | As I stated in my last post, I was working on getting my Laptop(LG
>> | RD400) to work with Linux. I was looking forward to some Linux
>> | Distribution that would support all my hardware out of the box,
>> | specially my WLAN(Wifi), as this is the only piece of hardware that is
>> | usually gives trouble with Linux.
>> `----
>>
>> http://blog.earneasypro.com/2008/07/mandriva-2008-best-linux-for-lapt...
>>
>> Linux still has better hardware support than Windows (and not just
>> Vista). No need for driver disks and downloads.
> People all over the world pay extra for Windows and OSX operating
> systems and software rather than use Linux, which is free!
People don't willingly "pay extra"; the vast majority doesn't know about
Linux at all. And the few ordinary users who at least do know about Linux
and might be inclined to use it, still have a very hard time avoiding to
pay Microsoft when shopping for a computer.
> Linux has failed year after year,
Linux hasn't failed. It does a excellent job in many roles, including the
desktop. It's just not very well-know in this latter role.
> it has been rejected repeatedly by the masses despite being free!
Dumbass nonsens. People "reject" Linux in the same way that people in most
countries around the world reject hagelslag.
> Windows and OSX take virtually 100% of the market share.
Sure, Linux, as a free OS, has no real "market share"; it has a usage share
of an estimated 2 percent. Which is quite impressive for an OS which for
all intents and purposes isn't marketed at all, and mostly relies on DIY
installation instead of being preinstalled on the vast majority of machines
sold.
Besides, all these ancient fallacies you just trotted out once again still
don't change the fact that Mandriva offers vastly better out-of-the-box
hardware hardware support than any Windows version. Linux may not be
well-known, but it's a very good OS nevertheless.
Richard Rasker
--
http://www.linetec.nl
Hadron
It's probably stuck to Roy's "pee-pee". Maybe you should ask if you can
wipe it?
--
"I am not worthy to wipe your pee-pee <grin>"
-- Liarnut in comp.os.linux.advocacy
Moshe Goldfarb.
hahahha!
Rick
Marti van Lin
Richard Rasker claimed:
--
Martix/M Acer Aspire 7220
Running Mandriva 2008.1 Spring
Marti van Lin
Richard Rasker claimed:
> shmell...@hotmail.com wrote:
That made me curious and thus I downloaded Mandriva 2008.1 Spring One and
booted it.
And indeed you are correct. Everything ran out of the box on my Acer Aspire,
including Atheros wireless.
Thanks for pointing that out Richard. My Acer Aspire is a Mandriva single
boot system by now!
Moshe Goldfarb.
It's amazing how you Linux loons can just switch Linux distributions willy
nilly without regard to any software, data, work in progress you might
going on.
It just goes to prove that some of you guys don't use these systems for
anything other than surfing and tinkering around because otherwise you
wouldn't risk losing anything important nor could you afford the downtime.
Richard Rasker
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:39:42 +0200, Marti van Lin wrote:
>
>> On zondag 27 juli 2008 22:13 in message <g6iku2$ihg$1...@saturn.z74.net>,
>> Richard Rasker claimed:
>>
>>> shmell...@hotmail.com wrote:
[troll lies]
>>> Besides, all these ancient fallacies you just trotted out once again
>>> still don't change the fact that Mandriva offers vastly better
>>> out-of-the-box hardware hardware support than any Windows version. Linux
>>> may not be well-known, but it's a very good OS nevertheless.
>> That made me curious and thus I downloaded Mandriva 2008.1 Spring One and
>> booted it.
>>
>> And indeed you are correct. Everything ran out of the box on my Acer
>> Aspire, including Atheros wireless.
>>
>> Thanks for pointing that out Richard. My Acer Aspire is a Mandriva single
>> boot system by now!
> It's amazing how you Linux loons can just switch Linux distributions willy
> nilly without regard to any software, data, work in progress you might
> going on.
It's amazing how you Windolts stubbornly refuse to see that Linux is easier
to install, migrate and use than Windows, and offers a vastly more
extensive out-of-the-box hardware support and software choice.
> It just goes to prove that some of you guys don't use these systems for
> anything other than surfing and tinkering around because otherwise you
> wouldn't risk losing anything important nor could you afford the downtime.
It just goes to prove that you have no idea what you're talking about.
We're not talking about Windows here, where reinstalling or migrating means
- losing all your stored data and settings, unless you explicitly copy those
first (which isn't easy because especially settings are scattered all over
the disk),
- spending sometimes days of lost productivity to get everything back the
way it was, installing all the drivers and applications one by one,
endlessly clicking Next buttons, rebooting the crappy OS, and manually
restoring application settings as best as you can remember, and
- (when migrating to Vista) running a significant risk that drivers and
applications aren't available or require the purchase of an upgraded
version.
Migrating between Linux distributions is a breeze -- also thanks to the
practice of a separate home partition, on which /all/ user data and
settings are preserved. On modern machines with a fast Internet connection,
downtime is limited to just 10-15 minutes for the base install; subsequent
application installation may take perhaps another 15 minutes -- so even if
you really need the latter, you can ususally work on as if nothing happened
within half an hour. If only Windows made things this easy ...
Erik Jan
all; we are accustomed to it.
> It just goes to prove that some of you guys don't use these systems for
> anything other than surfing and tinkering around because otherwise you
> wouldn't risk losing anything important nor could you afford the downtime.
>
It just proves nothing of the sort, except that you are reasoning from
prejudice, not from knowledge.
Erik Jan
ml2mst
Oh dear Flatfarb doesn't understand that most Linux users have a
separate /home partition and beside that, make frequently backups of
their valuable data.
USB sticks, these days cost almost nothing and you'll have a 500 GiB
external (USB) hard disk for about € 80.--
Anyway, Mandriva has buried fsucking Vista on my Acer Aspire this
morning and it's excellent ;-)
--
|_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin
|_|_|0| http://ml2mst.googlepages.com
|0|0|0| http://ubuntusteunpuntdaalhof.googlepages.com
Psyc Geek (TAB)
> separate /home partition and beside that, make frequently backups of
> their valuable data.
That proves linux is for geeks. Most people don't even know
what a partition is, let along how to set one up. And this is not
usually done by many installers, meaning they have to resize
existing partitions and know what they are doing. Not going to
happen.
> USB sticks, these days cost almost nothing and you'll have a 500 GiB
> external (USB) hard disk for about € 80.--
Hmm. Ya. You can do that.
> Anyway, Mandriva has buried fsucking Vista on my Acer Aspire this
> morning and it's excellent ;-)
Did you not have any other programs besides what is available with
linux?
No games?
I got this great idea. Lets have a group of tools that WORKS on
every
distro, to identify hardware. Instead of each distro doing the same
thing,
over and over?
Installing a new distro does take time to download and make the iso.
Then you have to install all the programs again.
WHAT THIS PROVES
You were not able to google and get your wireless working on linux.
So you waited till one of the Distro's could do it with a driver you
need.
Hadron
We are? I try to use my system to get work done. Its astonishing how
"astonished" some of you COLA loons are when you try "another distro"
and it "all just works". Anyone would think you were surprised or
something.
>
>> It just goes to prove that some of you guys don't use these systems for
>> anything other than surfing and tinkering around because otherwise you
>> wouldn't risk losing anything important nor could you afford the downtime.
>>
>
> It just proves nothing of the sort, except that you are reasoning from
> prejudice, not from knowledge.
>
> Erik Jan
Nice sound bite. Means nothing of course.
--
"Are Linux systems perfect. Uh, no."
-- Rick <no...@nomail.com> in comp.os.linux.advocacy
Hadron
You miss the point in your desire to suck up to Dick, Marti.
What applications beat the ones you use on Vista. Not Firefox now, or
slrn. What applications for real work?
Richard Rasker
>> Oh dear Flatfarb doesn't understand that most Linux users have a
>> separate /home partition and beside that, make frequently backups of
>> their valuable data.
>
> That proves linux is for geeks.
Utter bullshit. We're talking (re)installing and/or migrating here,
something which is done much easier and more reliable under Linux than
under Windows -- *especially* if you don't want to lose all your data. By
your reasoning, Windows is for a select few übergeeks exclusively, as
transferring user data and settings to a new machine under Windows is far
more complicated and failure-prone than under Linux.
> Most people don't even know what a partition is, let along how to set one
> up.
Should they?
> And this is not usually done by many installers, meaning they have to
> resize existing partitions and know what they are doing. Not going to
> happen.
Ah, the old "Linux is too difficult to install" argument warmed up once
again. First off, installing an OS is always more complicated than using
it -- so sure, ordinary users most likely need help in this respect.
However, this applies to Windows as well -- and much more so. Even worse:
due to Microsoft's incompetence and/or unwillingness in designing an OS
with a clear and reliable separation between user and system data, the
majority of users have resigned themselves to losing all their data when
reinstalling Windows (and I still have to meet the first home user who not
only knows how to make back-ups, but actually does so).
Mandriva's installer takes care of things in an almost perfect manner.
Want to preserve the data on your existing Linux home partition? During
install, simply choose "use existing partitions" and click Next. The /
partition is wiped clean and freshly installed, the /home partition is
untouched.
Or do you want to shrink the Windows (XP) partition to make room for Linux?
Almost as simple: choose the option by this name, and decide how much space
you want to leave for Windows. The only "difficult" bit here is that you
should have an approximate idea of how much disk space you'll need for
Linux. But then again, you should always have a fair idea about what you're
doing when installing an OS, especially when you want to preserve existing
data.
>> USB sticks, these days cost almost nothing and you'll have a 500 GiB
>> external (USB) hard disk for about € 80.--
>
> Hmm. Ya. You can do that.
>
>> Anyway, Mandriva has buried fsucking Vista on my Acer Aspire this
>> morning and it's excellent ;-)
>
> Did you not have any other programs besides what is available with
> linux?
> No games?
There are a fair number of games freely available under Linux. Also, quite a
number of commercial games work well in combination with Cedega, and this
number is still on the rise. Sure, real game addicts had better stick to
Windows, or a dual-boot system perhaps -- but I find that more and more
people only have a computer for Internet use, word processing and other
light tasks, and purchase a dedicated gaming box (PS, Wii etcetera) for
their gaming needs.
> I got this great idea. Lets have a group of tools that WORKS on every
> distro, to identify hardware. Instead of each distro doing the same
> thing, over and over?
This is already the case to a large extent, albeit mostly "under the hood".
OK, it would be nice if the installation procedure and tools would be the
same for all distributions. But then again, current diversity ensures that
new concepts are introduced and tried out -- thus contributing to the
evolutionary development of Linux. And most distribution-bound tools for a
perticular purpose look alike in many respects anyway.
> Installing a new distro does take time to download and make the iso.
> Then you have to install all the programs again.
Ordinary users don't have to install "all the programs" -- most anything
they'll ever need is included in the initial installation already, with the
exception of two or three things to enable DVD and Flash support. Which
takes all of one or two more minutes to install.
> WHAT THIS PROVES
> You were not able to google and get your wireless working on linux.
> So you waited till one of the Distro's could do it with a driver you
> need.
This proves nothing, except your desire to drag Linux through the mud, no
matter how much word-twisting and double-speak this takes.
Linonut
> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>
>> It's amazing how you Linux loons can just switch Linux distributions willy
>> nilly without regard to any software, data, work in progress you might
>> going on.
What the hell? All you have to do is have a separate /home partition.
Maybe save a couple of system config files to save some setup time.
> It's amazing how you Windolts stubbornly refuse to see that Linux is easier
> to install, migrate and use than Windows, and offers a vastly more
> extensive out-of-the-box hardware support and software choice.
Perhaps they think that Microsoft is now the only outfit on earth that
knows how to write code.
>> It just goes to prove that some of you guys don't use these systems for
>> anything other than surfing and tinkering around because otherwise you
>> wouldn't risk losing anything important nor could you afford the downtime.
Downtime? For guys who have more than one computer?
> Migrating between Linux distributions is a breeze -- also thanks to the
> practice of a separate home partition, on which /all/ user data and
> settings are preserved. On modern machines with a fast Internet connection,
> downtime is limited to just 10-15 minutes for the base install; subsequent
> application installation may take perhaps another 15 minutes -- so even if
> you really need the latter, you can ususally work on as if nothing happened
> within half an hour. If only Windows made things this easy ...
Microsoft doesn't have the infrastructure to allow it, apparently. And
they have Partners® to keep happy.
--
A Difficulty for Every Solution.
-- Motto of the Federal Civil Service
Hadron
> * Richard Rasker peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>
>>> It's amazing how you Linux loons can just switch Linux distributions willy
>>> nilly without regard to any software, data, work in progress you might
>>> going on.
>
> What the hell? All you have to do is have a separate /home partition.
> Maybe save a couple of system config files to save some setup time.
"Maybe save a couple of system config files to save some setup time"
And hope they go in the same place. And are the same version. Not
insurmountable, but dont gloss over non trivia Liarnut.
>
>> It's amazing how you Windolts stubbornly refuse to see that Linux is easier
>> to install, migrate and use than Windows, and offers a vastly more
>> extensive out-of-the-box hardware support and software choice.
>
> Perhaps they think that Microsoft is now the only outfit on earth that
> knows how to write code.
Its the only OS which they know their existing apps and games will run
on. Hence the thing about WINE in another thread where none of you COLA
loons smacked down "Phil" for saying that suggesting Windows SW houses
tried to get compatible with Wine 1 was "fuckwittery".
>
>>> It just goes to prove that some of you guys don't use these systems for
>>> anything other than surfing and tinkering around because otherwise you
>>> wouldn't risk losing anything important nor could you afford the downtime.
>
> Downtime? For guys who have more than one computer?
Huh? More fraudulent weaselling from Liarnut.
>
>> Migrating between Linux distributions is a breeze -- also thanks to the
>> practice of a separate home partition, on which /all/ user data and
>> settings are preserved. On modern machines with a fast Internet connection,
>> downtime is limited to just 10-15 minutes for the base install; subsequent
>> application installation may take perhaps another 15 minutes -- so even if
>> you really need the latter, you can ususally work on as if nothing happened
>> within half an hour. If only Windows made things this easy ...
>
> Microsoft doesn't have the infrastructure to allow it, apparently. And
> they have Partners® to keep happy.
More nonsense.
--
If you take both of those factors together then WinXP is a flop, selling
*less* than Win 98 by a factor of two.
comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they the lunacy in advocacy
Rick
> Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut> writes:
>
>> * Richard Rasker peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>
>>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's amazing how you Linux loons can just switch Linux distributions
>>>> willy nilly without regard to any software, data, work in progress
>>>> you might going on.
>>
>> What the hell? All you have to do is have a separate /home partition.
>> Maybe save a couple of system config files to save some setup time.
>
>
> "Maybe save a couple of system config files to save some setup time"
>
> And hope they go in the same place. And are the same version. Not
> insurmountable, but dont gloss over non trivia Liarnut.
As opposed to you trying to make things seem much more difficult than
they usually are.
>
>
>
>>> It's amazing how you Windolts stubbornly refuse to see that Linux is
>>> easier to install, migrate and use than Windows, and offers a vastly
>>> more extensive out-of-the-box hardware support and software choice.
>>
>> Perhaps they think that Microsoft is now the only outfit on earth that
>> knows how to write code.
>
> Its the only OS which they know their existing apps and games will run
> on. Hence the thing about WINE in another thread where none of you COLA
> loons smacked down "Phil" for saying that suggesting Windows SW houses
> tried to get compatible with Wine 1 was "fuckwittery".
Actually, if Windows SW houses tried to compatible with Wine, they'd have
an easy port to Linux based systems.
>
>
>>>> It just goes to prove that some of you guys don't use these systems
>>>> for anything other than surfing and tinkering around because
>>>> otherwise you wouldn't risk losing anything important nor could you
>>>> afford the downtime.
>>
>> Downtime? For guys who have more than one computer?
>
> Huh? More fraudulent weaselling from Liarnut.
SO, if they have machines that will mitigate downtime, that's weaseling,
if they don't they just surf and tinkering. More proof that no situation
that shows Liinux based systems in a positive light is good enough for
you.
>
>
>>> Migrating between Linux distributions is a breeze -- also thanks to
>>> the practice of a separate home partition, on which /all/ user data
>>> and settings are preserved. On modern machines with a fast Internet
>>> connection, downtime is limited to just 10-15 minutes for the base
>>> install; subsequent application installation may take perhaps another
>>> 15 minutes -- so even if you really need the latter, you can ususally
>>> work on as if nothing happened within half an hour. If only Windows
>>> made things this easy ...
>>
>> Microsoft doesn't have the infrastructure to allow it, apparently. And
>> they have Partners® to keep happy.
>
> More nonsense.
--
Rick
JEDIDIAH
> Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut> writes:
>
>> * Richard Rasker peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>
>>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's amazing how you Linux loons can just switch Linux distributions willy
>>>> nilly without regard to any software, data, work in progress you might
>>>> going on.
>>
>> What the hell? All you have to do is have a separate /home partition.
>> Maybe save a couple of system config files to save some setup time.
>
>
> "Maybe save a couple of system config files to save some setup time"
>
> And hope they go in the same place. And are the same version. Not
> insurmountable, but dont gloss over non trivia Liarnut.
...perhaps you could detail a few of these potential problems for us?
The truth is, you may find your relevant config files are not only
in the same place across Linux distributions but they are in the
same place across different distinct flavors of Unix (like Solars
vs. Linux).
This can be very handy...
I'm still using some of my SunOS aliases from the late 80's.
>
>
>>
>>> It's amazing how you Windolts stubbornly refuse to see that Linux is easier
>>> to install, migrate and use than Windows, and offers a vastly more
>>> extensive out-of-the-box hardware support and software choice.
>>
>> Perhaps they think that Microsoft is now the only outfit on earth that
>> knows how to write code.
>
> Its the only OS which they know their existing apps and games will run
That may be a problem.
OTOH, that could be grossly overblown.
Although typically this is just one of the things that Lemmings
like you use to keep most computer users in a state of fear and
ignorance.
[deletia]
--
Sure, I could use iTunes even under Linux. However, I have |||
better things to do with my time than deal with how iTunes doesn't / | \
want to play nicely with everyone else's data (namely mine). I'd
rather create a DVD using those Linux apps we're told don't exist.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
Hadron
>>
>> Its the only OS which they know their existing apps and games will run
>
> That may be a problem.
>
> OTOH, that could be grossly overblown.
>
> Although typically this is just one of the things that Lemmings
> like you use to keep most computer users in a state of fear and
> ignorance.
>
> [deletia]
So you think their existing apps and games will run?
--
BOY is Microsoft doomed! LOL!
comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy
JEDIDIAH
> Erik Jan schreef:
>> Moshe Goldfarb. had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 28-07-08 07:46:
>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:39:42 +0200, Marti van Lin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On zondag 27 juli 2008 22:13 in message <g6iku2$ihg$1...@saturn.z74.net>,
>>>> Richard Rasker claimed:
>>>>
>>>>> shmell...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 27, 3:43�am, Roy Schestowitz <newsgro...@schestowitz.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>
>> It just proves nothing of the sort, except that you are reasoning from
>> prejudice, not from knowledge.
>>
>> Erik Jan
>
> Oh dear Flatfarb doesn't understand that most Linux users have a
> separate /home partition and beside that, make frequently backups of
> their valuable data.
Not just that, but copying all of the relevant data is pretty trivial.
It requires no special purpose tools to overcome inherent barriers
and limitations in the system.
It can be simple as one drag-n-drop operation in the explorer/finder.
>
> USB sticks, these days cost almost nothing and you'll have a 500 GiB
> external (USB) hard disk for about € 80.--
>
> Anyway, Mandriva has buried fsucking Vista on my Acer Aspire this
> morning and it's excellent ;-)
>
--
DFS
> I'm still using some of my SunOS aliases from the late 80's.
Nerd!
JEDIDIAH
>
>>>
>>> Its the only OS which they know their existing apps and games will run
>>
>> That may be a problem.
>>
>> OTOH, that could be grossly overblown.
>>
>> Although typically this is just one of the things that Lemmings
>> like you use to keep most computer users in a state of fear and
>> ignorance.
>>
>> [deletia]
>
> So you think their existing apps and games will run?
This is about tools, not fixating on "brand names".
Hadron
> On 2008-07-28, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Its the only OS which they know their existing apps and games will run
>>>
>>> That may be a problem.
>>>
>>> OTOH, that could be grossly overblown.
>>>
>>> Although typically this is just one of the things that Lemmings
>>> like you use to keep most computer users in a state of fear and
>>> ignorance.
>>>
>>> [deletia]
>>
>> So you think their existing apps and games will run?
>
>
> This is about tools, not fixating on "brand names".
No. Its about the apps they know. The apps their data is compatible
with. The games they play. The games they want to play.
--
"I would assume her children might like to know where their mother is and
have a place to *visit* her."
-- "tiny dancer" <tinyda...@nospamhotmail.com> in alt.true-crime, comp.os.linux.advocacy
Hadron
> On 2008-07-28, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut> writes:
>>
>>> * Richard Rasker peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>>
>>>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's amazing how you Linux loons can just switch Linux distributions willy
>>>>> nilly without regard to any software, data, work in progress you might
>>>>> going on.
>>>
>>> What the hell? All you have to do is have a separate /home partition.
>>> Maybe save a couple of system config files to save some setup time.
>>
>>
>> "Maybe save a couple of system config files to save some setup time"
>>
>> And hope they go in the same place. And are the same version. Not
>> insurmountable, but dont gloss over non trivia Liarnut.
>
> ...perhaps you could detail a few of these potential problems for us?
JEDIDIAH
> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>
>> On 2008-07-28, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Its the only OS which they know their existing apps and games will run
>>>>
>>>> That may be a problem.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, that could be grossly overblown.
>>>>
>>>> Although typically this is just one of the things that Lemmings
>>>> like you use to keep most computer users in a state of fear and
>>>> ignorance.
>>>>
>>>> [deletia]
>>>
>>> So you think their existing apps and games will run?
>>
>>
>> This is about tools, not fixating on "brand names".
>
> No. Its about the apps they know. The apps their data is compatible
This is Windowed software. The specific apps should be irrelevant.
If the situation is otherwise they might as well learn wordstar.
Their data is more likely than not quite portable.
They are probably not some company that decided to create a
pipe layout application with their spreadsheet.
> with. The games they play. The games they want to play.
Well, that depends on how much of a gamer they are.
Not everyone is interested in spending more that what others
pay for their entire machine on nothing more than a video card.
All the same FUD you're trying to hurl at Linux applies equally
well (or is as equally bogus) for Mac.
Phil Da Lick!
> If the situation is otherwise they might as well learn wordstar.
Heh. Wordstar. That takes me back.
JEDIDIAH
Ok, so you would like us all to know that you haven't even bothered
to read that site... that's fine by us.
We're use to that by now.
Moshe Goldfarb.
They all missed the point, which is real applications for work.
They also assume that the various distributions have the same packages, the
same versions and are located in the same place including the configuration
files.
I know all about moving ~/home.
Now try moving from say Suse to Debian and tell me everything works exactly
the same.
If it does, then your requirements are very basic, which goes back to the
point they all missed.
Moshe Goldfarb.
> We are? I try to use my system to get work done. Its astonishing how
> "astonished" some of you COLA loons are when you try "another distro"
> and it "all just works". Anyone would think you were surprised or
> something.
That's the point.
I know people who won't even upgrade to the next minor version of AIX for
fear of generating problems.
The difference is these people are doing real work, like a research center
for example.
The orgasmic cries from COLA as they switch willy nilly from distribution
to distribution "without problems" just confirms that these people are
tinkerers and not using these machines for anything mission critical.
It goes WELL beyond moving ~/home.
>>
>>> It just goes to prove that some of you guys don't use these systems for
>>> anything other than surfing and tinkering around because otherwise you
>>> wouldn't risk losing anything important nor could you afford the downtime.
>>>
>>
>> It just proves nothing of the sort, except that you are reasoning from
>> prejudice, not from knowledge.
>>
>> Erik Jan
>
> Nice sound bite. Means nothing of course.
More spin from the Linux loons...
Hadron
Even Debian Ubuntu move sharing a home can cause issues. Encouraging
people to do these things blindly is bordering on the insane. But the
COLA "works for me" crowd are not here to help anyone. They are hear to
lie and to misrepresent.
--
"For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>
Moshe Goldfarb.
I know.
It's amazing how much they will weasel around and lie just to "glorify"
Linux.
JEDIDIAH
>
>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:09:44 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>
>>> ml2mst <ml2...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Erik Jan schreef:
>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb. had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 28-07-08 07:46:
>>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:39:42 +0200, Marti van Lin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On zondag 27 juli 2008 22:13 in message <g6iku2$ihg$1...@saturn.z74.net>,
>>>>>>> Richard Rasker claimed:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> shmell...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 3:43�am, Roy Schestowitz <newsgro...@schestowitz.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> They all missed the point, which is real applications for work.
>> They also assume that the various distributions have the same packages, the
>> same versions and are located in the same place including the configuration
>> files.
>>
>> I know all about moving ~/home.
>>
>> Now try moving from say Suse to Debian and tell me everything works exactly
>> the same.
>> If it does, then your requirements are very basic, which goes back to the
>> point they all missed.
>
> Even Debian Ubuntu move sharing a home can cause issues. Encouraging
Like what?
Do tell.
Some of us have been doing this since Slackware 96.
> people to do these things blindly is bordering on the insane. But the
> COLA "works for me" crowd are not here to help anyone. They are hear to
> lie and to misrepresent.
Yes... because "it works for us" is just so misleading...
Hadron
> On 2008-07-28, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:09:44 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>
>>>> ml2mst <ml2...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Erik Jan schreef:
>>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb. had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 28-07-08 07:46:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:39:42 +0200, Marti van Lin wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On zondag 27 juli 2008 22:13 in message <g6iku2$ihg$1...@saturn.z74.net>,
>>>>>>>> Richard Rasker claimed:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> shmell...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 3:43�am, Roy Schestowitz <newsgro...@schestowitz.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> [deletia]
>>> They all missed the point, which is real applications for work.
>>> They also assume that the various distributions have the same packages, the
>>> same versions and are located in the same place including the configuration
>>> files.
>>>
>>> I know all about moving ~/home.
>>>
>>> Now try moving from say Suse to Debian and tell me everything works exactly
>>> the same.
>>> If it does, then your requirements are very basic, which goes back to the
>>> point they all missed.
>>
>> Even Debian Ubuntu move sharing a home can cause issues. Encouraging
>
> Like what?
>
> Do tell.
>
> Some of us have been doing this since Slackware 96.
>
>> people to do these things blindly is bordering on the insane. But the
>> COLA "works for me" crowd are not here to help anyone. They are hear to
>> lie and to misrepresent.
>
> Yes... because "it works for us" is just so misleading...
It is. Because people dont give a shit what works for you. They are
interested in what they use working for them. And you and the fellow
COLA "advocates" ignoring all the war stories in the help forums does
nobody any good.
--
- "Thats what I have been saying for 5 years. Consumers are tired, they
want something new and more exciting."
Moshe Goldfarb.
> It is. Because people dont give a shit what works for you. They are
> interested in what they use working for them. And you and the fellow
> COLA "advocates" ignoring all the war stories in the help forums does
> nobody any good.
The Linux loons have been exposed for their *works for me* lies in the
past.
One notable example was when flatfish once posted a problem with a
particular DVD authoring program filling up the file system to capacity.
Of course the Linux loons were all over it denying the problem existed,
works for me etc.
The author indeed, in COLA, acknowledged the problem, which was something
along the lines of some media files being truncated and the program having
problems dealing with them.
The author also offered a workaround and the bug was fixed in the next
version.
IOW the program had a known bug, a serious one in fact, so it could not
have worked for the loons because it is very common for video files to have
errors in them due to conversions etc.
The silence from the Linux loon mafia *me too* *works for me* crowd was
deafening.
Peter Köhlmann
And on the other hand: People don't give a shit what does not work for you.
After all, you are extremely incompetent. Nearly as much as the "IT teacher"
Snot/Snit/Michael Glasser
So, whenever you claim that something does not work, it can be safely
ignored, "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs user", "swapfile
expert", "X specialist", "CUPS guru", "USB-disk server admin", "defragger
professional", "newsreader magician", "hardware maven", "time
coordinator", "email sage" and "OSS culling committee chairman" Hadron
Quark, aka Hans Schneider, aka Richard, aka Damian O'Leary
--
Micro$oft. What's broken today?
William Poaster
> On 2008-07-28, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:09:44 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>>
>>>> ml2mst <ml2...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Erik Jan schreef:
>>>>>> Moshe Goldfarb. had de volgende lumineuze gedachte op 28-07-08
>>>>>> 07:46:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 09:39:42 +0200, Marti van Lin wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On zondag 27 juli 2008 22:13 in message
>>>>>>>> <g6iku2$ihg$1...@saturn.z74.net>, Richard Rasker claimed:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> shmell...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 3:43�am, Roy Schestowitz
>>>>>>>>>> <newsgro...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> [deletia]
>>> They all missed the point, which is real applications for work. They
>>> also assume that the various distributions have the same packages, the
>>> same versions and are located in the same place including the
>>> configuration files.
>>>
>>> I know all about moving ~/home.
>>>
>>> Now try moving from say Suse to Debian and tell me everything works
>>> exactly the same.
>>> If it does, then your requirements are very basic, which goes back to
>>> the point they all missed.
>>
>> Even Debian Ubuntu move sharing a home can cause issues. Encouraging
>
> Like what?
>
> Do tell.
>
> Some of us have been doing this since Slackware 96.
>
>> people to do these things blindly is bordering on the insane. But the
>> COLA "works for me" crowd are not here to help anyone. They are hear to
>> lie and to misrepresent.
>
> Yes... because "it works for us" is just so misleading...
Uh, the Quack troll forget's he's a "works for me"!
<quote>
But you can pin in the Unstable version and it works. Did for me.
<unquote>
Message-ID: <g62hfp$9o9$1...@registered.motzarella.org>
hadro...@googlemail.com
Monday 21 July 2008
alt.os.linux.debian
As for lying & misrepresenting, Quack excels.
--
Is a M$ "Certificate of Authenticity"
for Vista, a junk bond?
JEDIDIAH
Sure they do.
If something works well for someone, then chances are it might work
well for them. All well specified data points are useful.
What adds nothing is vague fear mongering.
> interested in what they use working for them. And you and the fellow
> COLA "advocates" ignoring all the war stories in the help forums does
> nobody any good.
You lemmings are the only ones claiming that it's being ignored.
--
My macintosh runs Ubuntu. |||
/ | \
William Poaster
How ironic
Message-ID: <g62hfp$9o9$1...@registered.motzarella.org>
hadro...@googlemail.com
Monday 21 July 2008
alt.os.linux.debian
> And on the other hand: People don't give a shit what does not work for
> you. After all, you are extremely incompetent. Nearly as much as the "IT
> teacher" Snot/Snit/Michael Glasser
>
> So, whenever you claim that something does not work, it can be safely
> ignored, "true linux advocate", "kernel hacker", "emacs user", "swapfile
> expert", "X specialist", "CUPS guru", "USB-disk server admin", "defragger
> professional", "newsreader magician", "hardware maven", "time
> coordinator", "email sage" and "OSS culling committee chairman" Hadron
> Quark, aka Hans Schneider, aka Richard, aka Damian O'Leary
--
DFS
> Micro$oft. What's broken today?
Your paycheck would be, dumbkopf, if you ever had the balls to switch to
Linux.
Richard Rasker
> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>
>> On 2008-07-28, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:09:44 +0200, Hadron wrote:
[big snip]
>> Some of us have been doing this since Slackware 96.
>>
>>> people to do these things blindly is bordering on the insane. But the
>>> COLA "works for me" crowd are not here to help anyone. They are hear to
>>> lie and to misrepresent.
>>
>> Yes... because "it works for us" is just so misleading...
>
> It is. Because people dont give a shit what works for you. They are
> interested in what they use working for them. And you and the fellow
> COLA "advocates" ignoring all the war stories in the help forums does
> nobody any good.
Let me recap this thread:
Linux advocate: "Someone installed Mandriva and everything simply works,
including wireless! Isn't that great?"
Wintroll: "People don't use a lot of desktop Linux." [but that wasn't the
point]
Linux advocate: "That's not the issue -- the issue here is that Mandriva
works great out-of-the-box."
Another Linux advocate: "I just tried it and it sure works great!"
Wintroll: "Amazing how Linux advocates say they can easily switch
distributions. They can't be using Linux for anything serious." [but that
wasn't the point]
Linux advocates: "Yup, it's indeed amazing how easy it is to migrate or
(re)install Linux."
Wintroll: "You miss the point(!). Linux can't support real applications for
serious work the way Vista can." [but that wasn't the point]
Wintrolls choir: "They all miss the point. Moving /home isn't easy at all
and may cause lots of problems." [but that wasn't the point, and hasn't
even got to do anything with the previous Wintroll]
Linux advocate: "Examples, please? Because all I can say is that this easy
migration works for us Linux users." [drifting OT]
Wintroll: "Sure, the it 'works for you' lie. But people want what works for
them. Just look at all the horror stories." [Examples please!?]
Linux advocate: "We don't care what works for you. Here we talk about what
works for us." [and that /is/ the point of COLA!]
So there you have it: whenever Linux advocates say "Hey, Linux works great
for me!", Wintrolls pop up shouting "No it doesn't!", or "You're a liar!",
or "Just look at all the horror stories!". Without coming up with any
actual examples to support their claim.
So Wintrolls, one last time, please Google up just one example where
migrating /home caused serious problems. And no, don't insult our
intelligence by saying "look for yourself".
Richard Rasker
--
http://www.linetec.nl
Richard Rasker
> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>
>> On 2008-07-28, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:09:44 +0200, Hadron wrote:
Snip] [big snip] [big sni
>> Some of us have been doing this since Slackware 96.
>>
>>> people to do these things blindly is bordering on the insane. But the
>>> COLA "works for me" crowd are not here to help anyone. They are hear to
>>> lie and to misrepresent.
>>
>> Yes... because "it works for us" is just so misleading...
>
> It is. Because people dont give a shit what works for you. They are
> interested in what they use working for them. And you and the fellow
> COLA "advocates" ignoring all the war stories in the help forums does
> nobody any good.
This thread: let me recap thread: let me recap this thiis.
And everything simply works, including simply works, installed mandriva
andriva andriva andriva andriva and everything wireless! Isn't that
great?" linux advocate: "someone installed mand everything wireless!
Isn't that great?"".
Wasn't use a lot of desktop linux." [but that wasn't the pointroll:
"people don't that wasn't use a lot of desktop linux." [but the
pointroll: "people don't use a loot.
Advocate: "that's not that out-of-the issue here is the is the issue --
the issue -- the-box." linux advocate: "that mandriva works great
out-of-the-box." linux advocate: "that's not that out-of-the-box."
liinux.
Linux advocate: "i just tried it and it sure works great!" another linux
advocate: "i just tried it sure works great!" another linux advoocate:
Serious." [but they can't be using how linux advocates say the
pointroll: "amazing how linux advocates say the pointroll: "amazing
linux advocates say the pointroll: "amazing linux for anything how linux
advocates say they can easily switch distribut they can't that wasn't
the pointroll: "amazing linux for anything liinux.
Linux." linux advocate or (re)install linux advocate or (re)install
linux advocate or (re)install linux." linux advocate or (re)install
linux." linux advocate or (re)install linux." linux
Wasn't the pointroll: "you miss the way vista can't support real
applications for serious work that wasn't support real applications for
serious work the point(!). Linux can't support real applications for
serious work the point(!). Linux can." [but the pointroll: "you miss
thhe.
Pointroll] wintrolls choir: "they all anything with that wasn't the
pointrolls choir: "they all and hasn't easy all miss the pointroll]
wintrolls choir: "they all miss that wasn't easy at all miss that wasn't
the pointrolls choir: "they at wasn't easy at all and hasn't easy at all
miss the point. Moving with the previous wintrolls choir: "they all miss
the previous wintrolls choir: "they at wasn''t.
All I can say is this this this that this easy migration works for
users." [drifting ot] linux use all I can say is ease? Becausers."
[drifting ot] linux use all I can say is ease? Because all I can say is
ease? Becausers." [drifting ot] linux us linux addvocate:
'works for stories." [examples ples ple want works for stories."
[example want works for them. Just look at what what all the it 'works
for you' lie. But people want what all the it 'works for stories."
[example want what all the horror you' lie. But peoples ple want what
all them. Just.
For us." [and that works for you. Here we talk about works for us." [and
that works for you. Here what works for us." [and the point of cola!]
linux advocate: "we don't care we talk about works for you. Here what
/is/ the point of cola!] linux advocate::
Great for stories!". Wintrolls pop up shouting up with any actual
examples say "hey, linux works great all their claim. So their claim. So
their claim. So their claim. So the horror "just look at all there a
liar!", without coming up shouting up withouting up with any actual
examples to support their claim. So their claim. So the horror me!", or
"you're you have it doesn't!", wintrolls pop up with any actual examples
say "hey, linux works great all their claim. So there a liar!", or "just
look at all the horror storiees!".
Examplease google up just time, ple up just time, ple where migrating
/home caused serious problems. And no, don't introlls, one last one last
one examplease google where migrating "look for your insult one last
time, ple where migrating /home caused serious problems. And no, don't
insult ourself". So wintelligence by saying /home caused serious
problems. Andd.
Rasker richard rasker richard rassker.
Moshe Goldfarb.
> Hadron wrote:
>
>> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>>
>>> On 2008-07-28, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:09:44 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>
> [big snip]
>
>>> Some of us have been doing this since Slackware 96.
>>>
>>>> people to do these things blindly is bordering on the insane. But the
>>>> COLA "works for me" crowd are not here to help anyone. They are hear to
>>>> lie and to misrepresent.
>>>
>>> Yes... because "it works for us" is just so misleading...
>>
>> It is. Because people dont give a shit what works for you. They are
>> interested in what they use working for them. And you and the fellow
>> COLA "advocates" ignoring all the war stories in the help forums does
>> nobody any good.
>
> Let me recap this thread:
>
> Linux advocate: "Someone installed Mandriva and everything simply works,
> including wireless! Isn't that great?"
>
> Wintroll: "People don't use a lot of desktop Linux." [but that wasn't the
> point]
More like: "Works for me" isn't a good method for advocating certain
aspects of Linux. Wireless is one example.
> Linux advocate: "That's not the issue -- the issue here is that Mandriva
> works great out-of-the-box."
For you.
> Another Linux advocate: "I just tried it and it sure works great!"
The Linux mafia is out with the "me too" posts.
> Wintroll: "Amazing how Linux advocates say they can easily switch
> distributions. They can't be using Linux for anything serious." [but that
> wasn't the point]
Maybe not, but it's true.
Some of you guys switch distributions more often than you get laid....
And BTW it's far more complex than copying ~/home and you guys know it.
Maybe not as complex as moving a Windows operation but then again we don't
have the distro of the week to switch to.
> Linux advocates: "Yup, it's indeed amazing how easy it is to migrate or
> (re)install Linux."
It's not as easy as you guys lead noobs to believe.
Permissions, different file systems, different versions of programs,
sometimes even the same programs are not in the official repository for
whatever distro you are switching to etc....
There is more than just cp ~/home *
> Wintroll: "You miss the point(!). Linux can't support real applications for
> serious work the way Vista can." [but that wasn't the point]
No..
The point is if you were actually using applications for serious work you
wouldn't be risking switching distributions by the week.
The same could be said of any OS BTW, at least in terms of upgrading.
Most people follow the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mantra.
Linux users are forever switching variants of Linux etc which leads one to
conclude that their Linux systems are tinker toys.
> Wintrolls choir: "They all miss the point. Moving /home isn't easy at all
> and may cause lots of problems." [but that wasn't the point, and hasn't
> even got to do anything with the previous Wintroll]
But it's true.
> Linux advocate: "Examples, please? Because all I can say is that this easy
> migration works for us Linux users." [drifting OT]
Try moving from Debian to Suse and let us know how it goes.
How about Ubntu to Puppy.
Mandriva to DSL?
Gentoo to anything?
You guys are full of crap with the ~/home thing and you know it.
You will have your data, maybe some programs you installed there and little
else.
> Wintroll: "Sure, the it 'works for you' lie. But people want what works for
> them. Just look at all the horror stories." [Examples please!?]
Tons of horror stories.
See DFS posts.
Read the Ubuntu fora.
> Linux advocate: "We don't care what works for you. Here we talk about what
> works for us." [and that /is/ the point of COLA!]
If it were true it would be fine but for every tale that is true, the Linux
loons have 500 that are fairy tales and you boobs think that just because a
couple of drones say "worked for me" that this instantly gives the tale
credibility.
It doesn't.
>
> So there you have it: whenever Linux advocates say "Hey, Linux works great
> for me!", Wintrolls pop up shouting "No it doesn't!", or "You're a liar!",
> or "Just look at all the horror stories!". Without coming up with any
> actual examples to support their claim.
Not true.
It depends.
It's when the fairy tale is contradicted by a lot of independent data that
one gets suspicious.
> So Wintrolls, one last time, please Google up just one example where
> migrating /home caused serious problems. And no, don't insult our
> intelligence by saying "look for yourself".
Who said that?
Migrating ~/home isn't going to cause any problems except maybe permission
type stuff, especially with kmail...I went through that one already..
We are saying that when you switch distributions, there is far more than
just installing the new distribution, migrating ~/home and expecting things
to be the same as before only under the new distribution.
It doesn't work like that and you know it.
> Richard Rasker
William Poaster
This could be interesting. ;-)
--
"Break out the
popcorn & beer."
Gregory Shearman
> * shmell...@hotmail.com peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> On Jul 27, 2:11 pm, Rick <n...@nomail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:22:02 -0700, shmell_dakaka wrote:
>>>
>>> (snip)
>>>
>>> > People all over the world pay extra for Windows and OSX operating
>>> > failed year after year, it has been rejected repeatedly by the masses
>>> > despite being free! Windows and OSX take virtually 100% of the market
>>> > share.
>
> Rejected? Where it has been offered, it has done pretty well (e.g. in
> small sub-notebooks).
>
>>> Yup.. you just keep repeating your little justifications to yourself. Who
>>> knows, someday you may start to believe yourself.
>>
>> Rick, it is actually the other way around. You keep repeating your
>> little justifications to yourselves year after year. However, the
>> truth is: nobody uses Linux! Just look at the market share numbers,
>> they get worse every year. The facts speak for themselves. Wake up!
>
> Show us a downward trend, then.
>
> I small caca.
Yep, shit exits stage right... never to be heard of again, by that name.
--
Regards,
Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power
DFS
> So Wintrolls, one last time, please Google up just one example where
> migrating /home caused serious problems. And no, don't insult our
> intelligence by saying "look for yourself".
"Nope... FC4 apparently decided that the expendable boot drive was not to be
touched, and instead, yes, you guessed it, it nuked /home. Something like
13Gb of data on the drive, merrily nuked."
JEDIDIAH
> Richard Rasker wrote:
>
>> So Wintrolls, one last time, please Google up just one example where
>> migrating /home caused serious problems. And no, don't insult our
>> intelligence by saying "look for yourself".
That's an OS installer deciding to be stupid. That's not an effect
of "migrating home". Any Windows installer would be prone to do the
same thing to you.
>
>
> "Nope... FC4 apparently decided that the expendable boot drive was not to be
> touched, and instead, yes, you guessed it, it nuked /home. Something like
> 13Gb of data on the drive, merrily nuked."
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/8b04eab59c99e500/d87689ea4fcea4d1?hl=en&lnk=st&q=#d87689ea4fcea4d1
>
>
>
>
>
--
OpenDoc is moot when Apple is your one stop iShop. |||
/ | \
Moshe Goldfarb.
Too bad by virtue of your fantastic filters and your own bragging you have
the so called *Wintrolls* filtered so you won't get to watch the fun.
Nice self nuke there Willy *filters* Poaster.....
Richard Rasker
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:46:52 +0200, Richard Rasker wrote:
>
>> Hadron wrote:
>>
>>> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2008-07-28, Hadron <hadro...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:09:44 +0200, Hadron wrote:
>>
>> [big snip]
>>
>> Let me recap this thread:
>>
>> Linux advocate: "Someone installed Mandriva and everything simply works,
>> including wireless! Isn't that great?"
>>
>> Wintroll: "People don't use a lot of desktop Linux." [but that wasn't the
>> point]
>
> More like: "Works for me" isn't a good method for advocating certain
> aspects of Linux. Wireless is one example.
You can twist your sorry little Wintroll ass all you like, but you still
have it the wrong way round. If someone posts an enthusiastic report of a
flawless Mandriva install, including even the traditionally tricky bit of
wireless support(*), it's called "Linux Advocacy", or more humbly
perhaps "A Success Story".
The "works for me" principle is something completely different; it's what
people say /after/ someone else complained about something not working, or
not working properly. And if one person says one particular thing doesn't
work, but dozens of others report having no problems with the exact same
thing, well, then this one unlucky person most probably has a rather
specific problem with either his hardware or something he does wrong
himself. This also goes to show that a "works for me" response isn't
necessarily a bad or useless response -- the least it does is give an
indication as to how (un)common the problem is; and as long as the
plaintiff gets help in figuring out what causes his particular problem, I
wouldn't consider a "works for me" response negative.
*: And I can confirm the Mandriva 2008.1 success story *including wireless*
once more: today, I installed this distro on yet another Toshiba Tecra M1
laptop, and lo and behold, even the built-in wireless LAN card posed no
problems at all. I gave it the network's SSID and WPA2 PSK passphrase, and
it simply worked first go.
>> Wintroll: "Amazing how Linux advocates say they can easily switch
>> distributions. They can't be using Linux for anything serious." [but that
>> wasn't the point]
>
> Maybe not, but it's true.
*What* is true? That migration is very easy with Linux? Yup, I guess it is.
That Linux people don't use it for "anything serious"? Nah, you know
that's not just wrong, but stupid too. Many a business is built on Linux,
and so is mine.
> Some of you guys switch distributions more often than you get laid....
Sure. For some of us, Linux is more than just a useful tool to get their
daily work done. It's a hobby, a passion perhaps. And checking out
different distributions can be part of that.
Please tell me, would you badmouth, say, people who buy a new car every
year? Or who have made a lifestyle out of buying a house, spending months
remodeling it, and selling it off, just to start all over again with the
next house?
> And BTW it's far more complex than copying ~/home and you guys know it.
[it's /home, or ~ (which stands for /home/[user]/), but not ~/home]
Nope, it most definitely isn't. I've done it many dozens of times for all
sorts of users, and the worst I encountered was Evolution politely asking
whether the user wanted to migrate his old mail and settings (under
~/evolution) to the new version (with a slightly different mailbox layout
under ~/.evolution). And oh, some KDE name change thingies, where for
instance the Desktop directory got the new (Dutch) name Bureaublad, or a
double entry showed up for "Devices". All these minor migration hassles
were fixed in a matter of seconds, and happen only rarely between versions.
But never have I encountered the actual loss of data and/or settings when
migrating /home to a new install, version or even distribution. If you
think you have compelling evidence to the contrary, please don't hesitate
to share it with us. I myself would very much like to hear about possible
dangers and pitfalls, as I perform this operation on a regular basis.
> Maybe not as complex as moving a Windows operation but then again we don't
> have the distro of the week to switch to.
Well, it's at least honest of you to admit that migrating users under
Windows is a royal pain. But just out of curiosity: have you ever /tried/
migrating a Linux /home partition? Or can you explain in more detail what
could possibly go wrong?
>> Linux advocates: "Yup, it's indeed amazing how easy it is to migrate or
>> (re)install Linux."
>
> It's not as easy as you guys lead noobs to believe.
> Permissions,
I always found that creating new users with the same names as under /home
sufficed to get their home directories accessible to them with all the
right permissions. Apparently, Mandriva somehow issues the correct UID for
use with the newly created account in /etc/passwd, and that's how things
should go. Of course chown -R [username]:[groupname] /home/[username]*
does the trick if all else fails, but I can't even recall when I last used
that one.
> different file systems,
Never had any trouble with that. I used ext2, ext3, ReiserFS and XFS
interchangeably, depending on kernel versions and users' needs, and never
ran into trouble. Heck, I even have one user with NTFS, FAT32, EXT3 and XFS
partitions on one and the same disk, all accessible without any problems
from within Linux (but not from within the Windows install on the NTFS
partition, of course). Could you give some examples where this presented
problems?
> different versions of programs,
That may present some minor nuisances, such as with the previously mentioned
Evolution example. But that can always happen when upgrading any system, no
matter what OS you use or how you perform the upgrade. And even in this
respect, OSS applications usually beat closed-source applications
hands-down, because there's no need to binarize or obfuscate any saved data
or settings to prevent people from switching to other suppliers or force
them to upgrade. I once found that I could migrate a user's old Mandrake
9.1 /home directory to a Mandriva 2007.1 installation with little if any
trouble to speak of, as far as I can remember.
> sometimes even the same programs are not in the official repository for
> whatever distro you are switching to etc....
You make it sound as if people will just switch distributions blindly and
aimlessly. This, of course, is dumbass bullshit. If there are particular
applications you really need, you make certain in advance that these are
available in your new distribution of choice.
Besides, the fact that it generally /is/ quite easy to migrate from one
distribution to another doesn't mean that this is common practice.
Most people, including yours truly, tend to stick to what they're familiar
with and (thus?) like. Only if another distribution offers clear advantages
over the current one, migration becomes an option -- which, indeed, can
easily be tried out, with very little risk.
> There is more than just cp ~/home *
Sure, nothing works flawlessly a guaranteed full 100% of the time. But
migrating /home (not ~/home -- the tilde is the actual symbol for a user's
home directory) works well enough to say that it's a extremely reliable and
simple method.
>> Wintroll: "You miss the point(!). Linux can't support real applications
>> for serious work the way Vista can." [but that wasn't the point]
>
> No..
> The point is if you were actually using applications for serious work you
> wouldn't be risking switching distributions by the week.
As I explained earlier on, even the most highly strung Linux users don't
switch distributions by the week, other than on testing machines. I usually
migrate to the latest available Mandriva version once a year, but that's
mostly because I want to be able to offer my users a quite recent (and
tested!) version -- and, OK, also because it's childishly simple, and never
goes wrong in my experience.
> The same could be said of any OS BTW, at least in terms of upgrading.
> Most people follow the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mantra.
And that's quite a good one, as mantra's go.
> Linux users are forever switching variants of Linux etc which leads one to
> conclude that their Linux systems are tinker toys.
Dumbass generalizations like this one are the Wintrolls' food and drink.
Sure, /some/ Linux users like to check out lots of different distributions.
And they generally do so on testing machines, not on production machines.
And yes, there are people like me, who like to keep abreast of the latest
developments for a particular distribution, and upgrade once a year or so.
And yes, one of the reasons to do this is because it's easy and practically
failsafe.
But most Linux users simply stick to what works for them. And you know what?
I regularly encounter Linux machines installed four or five years ago, and
still working like on day one without any maintenance other than regularly
installed updates. No problems, no slow-downs, and (for the user) no urgent
reason to upgrade -- although I usually advise an upgrade anyway because
these old versions aren't always maintained any more, which can result in
security hazards. These users are Linux users allright, but they're not
tinkerers at all -- quite the contrary. They found a good tool which
doesn't break, but simply keeps on working, day after day, year after year.
So they're loth to change it, quite in keeping with the aforementioned
mantra.
>> Wintrolls choir: "They all miss the point. Moving /home isn't easy at all
>> and may cause lots of problems." [but that wasn't the point, and hasn't
>> even got to do anything with the previous Wintroll]
>
> But it's true.
Once more: clear-cut examples, please. No vague hints at "permissions"
or "version problems" or "file systems". Please come up with at least one
plausible example from everyday life, with details why moving /home isn't
all that easy after all.
>> Linux advocate: "Examples, please? Because all I can say is that this
>> easy migration works for us Linux users." [drifting OT]
>
> Try moving from Debian to Suse and let us know how it goes.
> How about Ubntu to Puppy.
> Mandriva to DSL?
> Gentoo to anything?
>
> You guys are full of crap with the ~/home thing and you know it.
> You will have your data, maybe some programs you installed there and
> little else.
We will have /all/ our data, and /all/ saved settings from previously
installed applications. Once these same applications are reinstalled,
things will work flawlessly as a rule. Sure, if the target application
isn't available in the newly installed distribution's repo, this doesn't
hold true. But that only happens if you surmise that Linux users randomly
migrate to different distributions all the time. Which is stupid, of
course. I only pointed out that migrating /home is very easy -- but this
doesn't mean in any way that Linux users do actually do this on a weekly
basis, and certainly not between distributions.
But it's quite a common and reliable way to upgrade from one version of a
particular distribution to another all the same.
>> Wintroll: "Sure, the it 'works for you' lie. But people want what works
>> for them. Just look at all the horror stories." [Examples please!?]
>
> Tons of horror stories.
> See DFS posts.
> Read the Ubuntu fora.
Once more, mr. "Goldfarb", you're insulting our intelligence by not
supplying any actual examples of how moving home has caused trouble. And
no, this single ancient FC4 "home nuked" story is not enough. All the other
stories appear to have to do with "systems freezing" or stuff like that.
>> Linux advocate: "We don't care what works for you. Here we talk about
>> what works for us." [and that /is/ the point of COLA!]
>
> If it were true it would be fine but for every tale that is true, the
> Linux loons have 500 that are fairy tales and you boobs think that just
> because a couple of drones say "worked for me" that this instantly gives
> the tale credibility.
> It doesn't.
If enough people can confirm the fact that "hey, this Linux stuff works
great", then other people are more inclined to try it out for themselves.
And yes, Linux does work great for a large number of users, and yes, I'm
one of those happy users -- with another 100+ happy Linux users under my
care (which they hardly ever need).
Discussing how well Linux generally works and telling other people about it
is in fact the essence of this newsgroup -- hence the word "advocacy" in
its name, as you may have guessed.
And yes, Linux critics and even Wintrolls are welcome here to vent their
point of view; I'd even go as far as to say that these mostly opposing
views are quite essential for Linux advocates to prove their claims --
otherwise this would be quite a dull group of yay-sayers with no critical
word heard whatsoever.
But once more, posting a positive (OSS) product review is something
completely different from giving a "works for me" answer in response to a
complaint.
And please, /please/ try sticking to the topic at hand, and come up with
relevant examples instead of "just read DFS' posts" or "Google for
yourself". Otherwise you only make an ass out of yourself.
>> So there you have it: whenever Linux advocates say "Hey, Linux works
>> great for me!", Wintrolls pop up shouting "No it doesn't!", or "You're a
>> liar!", or "Just look at all the horror stories!". Without coming up with
>> any actual examples to support their claim.
>
> Not true.
> It depends.
In the vast majority of cases, I see no credible counter-examples at all
when Wintrolls try to counter any particular Linux advocate's success
story. Sure, there's a lot of mud-flinging going on, but it conveys nothing
more than the impression of a stupid kindergarten fight over who said what
to whom first.
> It's when the fairy tale is contradicted by a lot of independent data that
> one gets suspicious.
Then please come up with this "independent data" you keep going on about,
instead of just giving vague hints in all kinds of general directions.
Every Linux success tale is in its own way a good example of independent
data: if the author isn't lying through his teeth, it usually provides a
detailed account of the things that went rather well, and encourages others
to try the same. And more often than not, these other people also respond
with that "Yes, it worked for me too!". As happened here in this very
thread.
Yet I still have to see just one example from you Wintrolls of how things
can easily go wrong when following those Linux advocates' advice or
example.
Another interesting fact is that it's always well-known Wintrolls (and the
same ones, at that, nymshifting and all) who come up with Linux horror
stories, never anyone else. Where are all those frustrated and disappointed
Linux users? Why don't those people show up even once a month or so in our
beloved news group? Sure, Ubuntu forums and the likes are buzzing with all
sorts of errors found and people doing things wrong -- but mostly, these
issues are sorted out quite quickly as a rule, including those mentioned by
DooFuS.
>> So Wintrolls, one last time, please Google up just one example where
>> migrating /home caused serious problems. And no, don't insult our
>> intelligence by saying "look for yourself".
>
> Who said that?
> Migrating ~/home isn't going to cause any problems except maybe permission
> type stuff, especially with kmail...I went through that one already..
Well, this is at a believable scenario, at last. Well done, that man.
Indeed, if you overwrite the complete new /home directory with the old /home
contents, there is a chance of permission (or rather UID) trouble. This is
more likely when migrating from one distribution to another distribution
with a different UID starting value (e.g. a value of 1000 for the first
normal user UID instead of 500). Yet I distinctly remember migrating a
Ubuntu user (with UID 1000) to Mandriva (with UID 500) without problems.
> We are saying that when you switch distributions, there is far more than
> just installing the new distribution, migrating ~/home and expecting
> things to be the same as before only under the new distribution.
>
> It doesn't work like that and you know it.
Admittedly, there is a chance of a UID mismatch when migrating from one
distribution to another. And the remedy is quite simple, as I pointed out
earlier: one not-too-complicated CLI command; or else, simply deleting the
offending user account (while preserving their /home contents) and
subsequently recreating it might well do the trick. It's all about the link
between a user's name and the UID, and I have the impression that
especially the GUI tools correctly match these up when creating accounts
for existing home directories -- a name/UID mismatch would result in an
unusable account in all cases, so it most probably only occurs when
copying /home while preserving permissions.
Now I haven't seen a home migration fail (or produce even minor hassle) in
many years -- but then again, I very rarely switch distributions, even for
my users. But it sure is interesting to try and find out how it could fail,
so I think I'll set up my test machine with a couple of different
distributions some time in the near future, and simply try and copy over my
own /home to these, and think of ways to make this not work. I'll certainly
report back as soon as I have some results, although it may be a few
weeks -- the test box is running some server stuff right now, and will be
for a few weeks more.