,----[ Quote ] | Miguel de Icaza “is basically a traitor to the Free | Software community” This was in response to my question | about the new Microsoft “Open Source” labs. He went on to | say that Miguel’s involvement in the project doesn’t give | much confidence as he is a Microsoft apologist. The project | looks to be concerned with permitting “Open Source” | programs to work on the Windows platform and thus divert | valuable developer time away from free platforms such as | Gnu/Linux. | | Mono framework is not so much of a problem, but C# | shouldn’t be used in core apps as legal problems would be | hard to work around. Recommends uninstalling any apps using | C#. `----
,----[ Quote ] | Other interim board members of the new foundation are primarily from | Microsoft, at this point. They include Bill Staples, head of | Microsoft’s Internet Information Services team; Stephanie Boesch, a | Microsoft Program Manager for the .Net Framework; Miguel de Icaza, Vice | President of Developer Platform at Novell; Britt Johnston, a Microsoft | Product Unit Manager for Data and Modeling; and Shaun Walker, Co- | founder and Chief Architect of DotNetNuke. `----
,----[ Quote ] | MonoDevelop is going to be the “Eclipse of the .NET community“, Mr. De | Icaza tells us. Putting aside the obvious jokes, I think this is | another good illustration of how the entire focus of Team Mono is – and | must be – on conforming to .NET. | | Here’s one of the highlights on the new MonoDevelop release: | “MonoDevelop can be used to develop ASP.NET MVC applications on OSX and | Linux and Silverlight applications on OSX and Linux.” | | That’s just what I was saying Linux needed the other day: more | Silverlight applications. In fact, I was discussing how promoting | Silverlight development in no way whatsoever helps Microsoft lock-in, | and quite the contrary actually encourages the spread of software | freedom under every definition known to mankind. Because it is | Microsoft that is internationally recognized for leverging its | considerable power to promote user freedom and interoperability through | its file formats and development technologies we absolutely need more | of that being produced in the Linux world, which tends to use | proprietary and obscured formats and languages | | So MonoDevelop is a big win there. Congratulations. `----
,----[ Quote ] | I just hope it's a better kind of help than C#, OOXML, and a barely-working | Silverlight clone. Unless you have some grand scheme for making software | patents go away? | | Miguel, you're a smart person and I respect what you've done. But your | current infatuation with All Things Microsoft is, frankly, scaring me and a | lot of other people. I didn't switch to Linux so I could have Microsoft | technologies in my face. `----
Above my Pay Grade: Miguel de Icaza and the Novell-Microsoft Agreement
,----[ Quote ] | What's this about pay-grade? It's a military term, often misappropriated by | civilians who are avoiding an ethical decision. It's a good excuse in the | military: politicians are accountable for the decision to enter a war, while | the military are oath-bound to follow orders at pain of court-martial and | possibly execution, and are only accountable for the conduct of the war. But | Miguel is no soldier. He's the founder of a company previously merged into | Novell, and would not be subject to treason charges or capital punishment | over this issue. Others, like Jeremy Allison, chose to leave the company | while Miguel stayed. `----
The unholy quad: Miguel, Mono, Moonlight and Microsoft
,----[ Quote ] | Nevertheless, this Usenet conversation has some points of interest. It | illustrates again the way in which de Icaza, who by all accounts is a man | with a very high IQ, refuses to look down the line and draw reasonable | conclusions. | | When asked "To what degree do you trust Microsoft, either in terms of their | promises; their motivations; or their commitment to a competing platform like | Linux?" he chooses to trivialise the question by responding "This is a | question that is suitable for Teen magazine or Cosmo." `----
,----[ Quote ] | I haven't laughed as loud and as long as I did this morning when I read that | Miguel de Icaza has now started criticising the patent licensing deal which | his employer Novell signed with Microsoft in November 2006. | | he Pope has turned Anglican. John McCain has become a Democrat. Fidel Castro | has sworn off Communism. | | Whenever de Icaza does something, there is always a good reason. But like all | people who flip through 180 degrees, de Icaza generally does not reveal such | reasons. `----
,----[ Quote ] | However, De Icaza is being disengenious. Consider this remark of his just 15 | months ago: | http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2006/Nov-04.html | | "Why did you guys work this deal with Microsoft? | Although I did not take part of the actual negotiations, and was only told | about this deal less than a week before the announcement, I had been calling | for a long time for a collaboration between Microsoft and Open Source and | Microsoft and Novell. | There are numerous interviews that touch on this topic and most recently my | interview in Microsoft's Port25 | In the past I had called for this same kind of cooperation with other | companies. " | | [...] | | So, the question arises: Why is De Icaza criticizing the "deal" now? What's | changed? The terms of Icaza's employment? His salary? His VP status? His | duties? GNOME's GPL status? | | It's time De Icaza comes clean. `----
,----[ Quote ] | Scoble: "I saw that internally inside Microsoft many times when I was told to | stay away from supporting Mono in public. They reserve the right to sue." `----
MIX - Novell's de Icaza criticizes Microsoft patent deal
,----[ Quote ] | Open-source pioneer and Novell Vice President Miguel de Icaza Thursday for | the first time publicly slammed his company's cross-patent licensing | agreement with Microsoft as he defended himself against lack of patent | protection for third parties that distribute his company's Moonlight project, | which ports Microsoft's Silverlight technology to Linux. | | Speaking on a panel at the MIX 08 conference in Las Vegas, de Icaza said that | Novell has done the best it could to balance open-source interests with | patent indemnification. However, if he had his way, the company would have | remained strictly open source and not gotten into bed with Microsoft. Novell | entered into a controversial multimillion dollar cross-patent licensing and | interoperability deal with Microsoft in November 2006. | | "I'm not happy about the fact that such an agreement was made, but [the | decision] was above my pay grade; I think we should have stayed with the | open-source community," de Icaza said. He was speaking on a panel that also | included representatives from Microsoft and open-source companies Mozilla and | Zend. | | [...] | | De Icaza shot back that it was "unfair" of Schroepfer to paint Novell as the | only company protected by patent covenants, as many companies have signed | licensing agreements not only with Microsoft, but also with other companies | such as IBM that have a large patent portfolio. | | [...] | | The choice has drawn ire from open-source diehards who were displeased with | Novell’s decision to sign a cross-licensing agreement with Microsoft in the | first place. A Web site called “Boycott Novell” decried Moonlight as a | Microsoft “pet project” and criticized the company’s decision not to port | Silverlight to Linux itself. `----
After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out this bit o' wisdom:
> Software Freedom Day in Boston
> ,----[ Quote ] >| Miguel de Icaza ???is basically a traitor to the Free >| Software community???... >| >| Mono framework is not so much of a problem, but C# >| shouldn???t be used in core apps as legal problems would be >| hard to work around. Recommends uninstalling any apps using >| C#. > `----
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:02:22 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: > After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out > this bit o' wisdom:
>> Software Freedom Day in Boston
>> ,----[ Quote ] >>| Miguel de Icaza ???is basically a traitor to the Free >>| Software community???... >>| >>| Mono framework is not so much of a problem, but C# >>| shouldn???t be used in core apps as legal problems would be >>| hard to work around. Recommends uninstalling any apps using >>| C#. >> `----
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out > this bit o' wisdom:
> > Software Freedom Day in Boston
> > ,----[ Quote ] > >| Miguel de Icaza ???is basically a traitor to the Free > >| Software community???... > >| > >| Mono framework is not so much of a problem, but C# > >| shouldn???t be used in core apps as legal problems would be > >| hard to work around. Recommends uninstalling any apps using > >| C#. > > `----
> Hmm, I thought RMS/FSF had said that merely to avoid becoming dependent on > C#.
Stallman has become quite the jackass. For example, here he is making accusations against the contributors to the Spanish Wikipedia that turned out to be ridiculously unfounded:
Stallman's complaint? They aren't allowing links to a particular site that is basically a Digg-like link aggregator for left-wing stories. The Spanish Wikipedia people are, of course, correct--cites should be to the original sources, not to the link aggregator. You'd think Stallman would learn something about how Wikipedia works before giving a talk at a Wikipedia event--but that would be the sane thing to do.
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:18:14 -0700, Tim Smith wrote: > In article <h997dp$iv...@news.eternal-september.org>, > Chris Ahlstrom <ahlstr...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out >> this bit o' wisdom:
>>> Software Freedom Day in Boston
>>> ,----[ Quote ] >>>| Miguel de Icaza ???is basically a traitor to the Free >>>| Software community???... >>>| >>>| Mono framework is not so much of a problem, but C# >>>| shouldn???t be used in core apps as legal problems would be >>>| hard to work around. Recommends uninstalling any apps using >>>| C#. >>> `----
>> Hmm, I thought RMS/FSF had said that merely to avoid becoming dependent on >> C#.
> Stallman has become quite the jackass. For example, here he is making > accusations against the contributors to the Spanish Wikipedia that > turned out to be ridiculously unfounded:
> Stallman's complaint? They aren't allowing links to a particular site > that is basically a Digg-like link aggregator for left-wing stories. The > Spanish Wikipedia people are, of course, correct--cites should be to the > original sources, not to the link aggregator. You'd think Stallman would > learn something about how Wikipedia works before giving a talk at a > Wikipedia event--but that would be the sane thing to do.
You know what they say about the fine line that separates genius from retard....
> After takin' a swig o' grog, Roy Schestowitz belched out > this bit o' wisdom:
>> Software Freedom Day in Boston
>> ,----[ Quote ] >>| Miguel de Icaza ???is basically a traitor to the Free >>| Software community???... >>| >>| Mono framework is not so much of a problem, but C# >>| shouldn???t be used in core apps as legal problems would be >>| hard to work around. Recommends uninstalling any apps using >>| C#. >> `----
.---- | "What's the point of supporting a large, faceless corporation that | doesn't give you the good service you should get? We have MS for | that..." ~ DFS, http://tinyurl.com/doofy-admits-truth-about-ms `----
Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
> Hmm, I thought RMS/FSF had said that merely to avoid becoming > dependent on C#.
I'm sure Stallman's opinions evolve relative to development of the subject matter, and his incremental knowledge and understanding of that subject matter ... just as they do with anyone else.
For example: 20 years ago, I had almost no opinion of Microsoft at all. Then my opinion developed into suspicion, then cynicism, then outright distrust, then revulsion, then anger, then pure /hatred/. This was matched by my growing aversion to their increasingly crap software. The more I discovered about this company, and the more I was exposed to their software, the less I liked either one.
.---- | "What's the point of supporting a large, faceless corporation that | doesn't give you the good service you should get? We have MS for | that..." ~ DFS, http://tinyurl.com/doofy-admits-truth-about-ms `----
> It's good that he's finally stated it explicitly, though.
Well, he did publicly. Some of us received similar accusations in the mail, but he didn't use the same words.
- -- ~~ Best of wishes
You can have my Unix system when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. - -- Simon Cozens (but I'd say the same!) http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E Load average (/proc/loadavg): 0.18 0.35 0.41 3/297 17565 http://iuron.com - semantic search engine project initiative -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>> Hmm, I thought RMS/FSF had said that merely to avoid becoming >> dependent on C#.
> I'm sure Stallman's opinions evolve relative to development of the > subject matter, and his incremental knowledge and understanding of > that subject matter ... just as they do with anyone else.
> For example: 20 years ago, I had almost no opinion of Microsoft at > all. Then my opinion developed into suspicion, then cynicism, then > outright distrust, then revulsion, then anger, then pure /hatred/. > This was matched by my growing aversion to their increasingly crap > software. The more I discovered about this company, and the more I > was exposed to their software, the less I liked either one.
Microsoft is not about software; it's about politics, marketing, and manipulative lawyers (see i4i).
- -- ~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | http://debian.org http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E Swap: 4088500k total, 417880k used, 3670620k free, 264040k cached http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> ____/ Homer on Tuesday 22 Sep 2009 22:18 : \____
>> Verily I say unto thee, that Chris Ahlstrom spake thusly:
>>> Hmm, I thought RMS/FSF had said that merely to avoid becoming >>> dependent on C#.
>> I'm sure Stallman's opinions evolve relative to development of the >> subject matter, and his incremental knowledge and understanding of >> that subject matter ... just as they do with anyone else.
>> For example: 20 years ago, I had almost no opinion of Microsoft at >> all. Then my opinion developed into suspicion, then cynicism, then >> outright distrust, then revulsion, then anger, then pure /hatred/. >> This was matched by my growing aversion to their increasingly crap >> software. The more I discovered about this company, and the more I >> was exposed to their software, the less I liked either one.
> Microsoft is not about software; it's about politics, marketing, > and manipulative lawyers (see i4i).
Well, I don't like a lot of the crap Microsoft pulls, and I think Microsoft is a cancer in some ways, but software /is/ a significant part of what they do. And some of it is good stuff.
-- FORTUNE PROVIDES QUESTIONS FOR THE GREAT ANSWERS: #15 A: The Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Q: What was the greatest achievement in taxidermy?
Chris Ahlstrom wrote: >Well, I don't like a lot of the crap Microsoft pulls, and I think >Microsoft is a cancer in some ways, but software /is/ a significant >part of what they do. And some of it is good stuff.
QuickBASIC is great! 8)
-- "All it takes is one vulnerability to compromise you, therefore security is a binary condition." - Erik Funkenbusch
____/ chrisv on Wednesday 23 Sep 2009 13:43 : \____
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>Well, I don't like a lot of the crap Microsoft pulls, and I think >>Microsoft is a cancer in some ways, but software /is/ a significant >>part of what they do. And some of it is good stuff.
> QuickBASIC is great! 8)
"Usually Microsoft doesn't develop products, we buy products."
--Arno Edelmann, Microsoft's European business security product manager
- -- ~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Viruses to Linux are like cancer to a shark http://Schestowitz.com | Mandriva Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E run-level 2 Sep 19 15:11 http://iuron.com - help build a non-profit search engine -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
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