LinuxInsider Editor Didn't Even Use Linux.......
Moshe Goldfarb.
http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make the
move to Linux?
How on earth did this guy even get the job?
Maybe there is hope for Roy Schestowitz to find a real job after all.
You have to read the article to see what a nightmare this guy went through
getting Linux installed.
Notice how he justifies all the difficult parts........
This guy would be more at home as a *Fresher Fluffer* at University of
Manchester GB.
Hey maybe Roy Schestowitz can put in a good word for him?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/97bd639f8de08108
"..... No real interferences on the horizon, but the
volume will be hard to sustain when the undergrads return next week
(Freshers' Week). I need to help getting newcomers connected (my daytime
job).
Best wishes,
Roy ""
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
7
wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Department of Marketing:
> .
I think this more evidence for removing windummies from the workplace
altogether.
Below are very sound business practices if to get rid of the WINDUMMY osen
and replace it with free software.
Original article by Rex Ballard.
"
Here are some tactics I've been hearing about from different companies
who are trying to prevent another "forced upgrade" to Vista at the
cost of jobs, poor earnings reports, and loss of productivity.
Executive Management Approval
Employees who want Vista or Office 2007 have to get approval from
their supervisor, who has to get approval from his supervisor, and so
on up the chain almost to the CEO or COO. If a lower level manager
approves, and doesn't get prior approval from his management, a
substantial charge is assessed to his budget, sufficient to clearly
and negatively affect his bonuses. In effect, any Vista or Office
2007 he personally approves, comes out of his bonus.
The point is that most lower level workers are not willing to go
through the hassles of writting a justification sufficient to merit
the approval of a high level executive, and mid-level managers aren't
going to eliminate their chances of promotion or bonuses by bucking
upper management.
Self Funded Personal Platforms
The company will provide the PC and Windows 2000, XP, or Linux, but if
the employee feels that he has to have Vista or Office 2007, they have
to purchase it through the corporate procurement system, and the cost
of the software will be deducted from their bunuses or raises.
Linux bonuses
Company offers bonuses, or adds to annual bonuses based on the
employee's ability to use Linux, with higher bonuses for Linux in
Native mode, slightly less for Virtual Mode, because they have taken
the time to self-train and take responsibility for their own desktop
or laptop environment.
Annual surcharges.
Rather than just giving every employee a copy of Windows and Office,
the employees department gets charged for the licenses and support
they are using. For example, a call to the help desk for XP issues
would be over $300 per call. A support call for Linux might be as
little as $30 per call. In addition, administrative fees and support
fees for just having XP or Linux are similarly proportionally priced.
Full Time Reportinng
Time spent dealing with Windows XP or Office issues, ranging from back-
up and restore to reinstallation of software or Windows, has to be
reported separately on a time sheet. If this time is from the 40 hour
work week, it's treated similar to "sick time". If it's done in
ADDITION to the standard 40 hour week, it is considered volunteer
effort, but this gives companies a much better picture of how much
time is spent dealing with Microsoft related issues, and makes a
better case for switching to Linux.
Extra time spent installing and learning to use Linux ad Open Office
are treated like training, since these are new skills that the company
wants to encourage. Since this training time indicates a willingness
to follow corporate guidelines, Therefore this is a positive when
considering bonuses, raises, and promotions.
Client Provided software
More consulting firms are now expecting the client to pay for special
software. If the client is using Vista and/or Office 2007 and won't
share documents in a legacy friendly way, the consultant has to
purchase the software through corporate procurement, and expense it to
the client along with travel and other expenses (at full corporate
price). This is because too many clients have been "giving" pirated
copies of Vista and Office 2007 to consultants, and the corporate
licenses ONLY apply to permanent employees of the corporation. The
consulting company is liable to Microsoft for the pirated licenses and
could even face a $10,000 per copy fine for the copyright violation.
In some countries, the penalties for stealing are quite severe,
including the loss of body parts.
Automated License and software audits
Most corporations now have the ability to get a comprehensive list of
who has what software, and many are on the lookout for pirated copies
of Vista or Office 2007. If it's not on the inventory as a purchased
license, then it's pirated. Many companies are also asking violators
to come to the data center or customer support depot and have their
laptops re-imaged. Some corporate desktops can automatically be re-
imaged if pirated software is detected.
There are also some new viruses out that are causing full indexes of
the entire file-system to be generated, and sending the index to some
unknown location on a "trickle" basis. If your laptop is suddenly
runnig very SLOWLY, this might be why.
Another virus is looking for file-sharing software such as bit-
torrent, if it's found, the virus deletes all mp3 files. It only
impacts Win2K, XP and Vista users.
Seems like a lot of corporate and hacker forces are starting to make
Windows users really "suffer" for their addiction to Windows. And
attempts to install Vista are pretty much the road to an
"Intervention".
"
So start with LiveCDs me thinks....
Ezekiel
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1e44nmlyuiti9$.14wq5kto3th3q$.dlg@40tude.net...
> .....until now.
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>
> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make the
> move to Linux?
>
> How on earth did this guy even get the job?
The article is an absolute gem!!!
- "As editor for LinuxInsider for more than a year now, I figured the time
was right to start walking the walk with my personal machine."
Translation: He sounds like a typical COLA hypocrite. Advocate linux but run
Windows.
- "Can I use iTunes? Nope, but there are a couple of apps -- such as Amarok
and GTKPod -- that allow you to sync the device. You won't be able to use
the iTunes store, but do you really want to pay Apple to tell you you..."
Translation: "Those grapes are probably sour anyway."
- "How can I get my wireless networking card to work? My old Dell has a
Broadcom B43 wireless chipset. That's a problem with Ubuntu... It took a
small amount of poking around and searching Ubuntu's knowledge base to find
out what I needed to do.
Still, that hasn't solved all of my wireless networking issues.... Problem
is, the guy who asked the original question found his connection suddenly
working for no good reason, so the advice doesn't carry through to the point
where we discover what the actual problem is and how to fix it.
That's the way it is with open source -- tech support is the other users. So
I'll be posting a new question in hopes of finding the answer. I'm just glad
I can hardwire and get Internet access, or the problem would be a lot more
severe.
Translation: After loads of research and configuration wireless still isn't
working on his laptop.
- "Is there an automatic backup feature? Or an app available? Not really,
but Ubuntu Forums has a pretty detailed set of instructions on how to
accomplish a full backup through the command line."
Translation: Gotta love the old command line.
- "Is there a driver for my printer? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it works
out of the box, like it would with Windows. I'm able to print documents, no
problem. Photos, well, that's another story. Apparently I'm not the only
person with the same issue. Sure, there's a workaround -- there always is --
but it means I've got to transfer the photo to an SD card, which I then put
directly into the printer."
Translation: Linux supports lots of printers but only in their most basic
mode. Nice "workaround" by the way - transfer the images to a SD card.
Translation of this is that the linux printer drivers simply can't print an
image.
- "...so making it work takes some tinkering. That's one of the charms of
Linux: You can tinker with it and learn about it along the way,
Translation - "Tinkering - That's one of the charms of Linux." Others would
call it high maintenance. While the editor of "Linux Insider" might think
it's fun and charming to tinker all day with his OS other people simply want
a tool to use. To most people this is about as charming as a refridgerator
that you need to fix daily or that charming 1976 AMC Gremlin that you get to
"tinker" with every time you want the car to start.
- "...but it's a time-consuming process that probably shouldn't be
undertaken on a machine that you need to "just work" right away."
Translation: Keep a Windows box handy for when you have work to do.
> Hey maybe Roy Schestowitz can put in a good word for him?
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/97bd639f8de08108
>
> "..... No real interferences on the horizon, but the
> volume will be hard to sustain when the undergrads return next week
> (Freshers' Week). I need to help getting newcomers connected (my daytime
> job).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Roy ""
>
What kind of pathetic loser would admit in public that their "daytime job"
is to fluff incoming freshman? Earth calling Roy.... this is *NOT* a job you
fool. If this crap is a "daytime job" then something as sophisticated as a
paper-route or a lemonade stand must fall into the category of "carreer."
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Moshe Goldfarb.
Yea!
I had to read the article twice just to make sure i was reading what I
thought i was reading.
This is a perfect example of the trials and tribulations not to mention the
sacrafices that the average person has to succumb to in order to run Linux.
The kicker is that this guy is an editor of LinuxInsider !!
If he can't make this stuff work with the all the resources he has access
to how does the average person even stand a chance?
>
>
>> Hey maybe Roy Schestowitz can put in a good word for him?
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/97bd639f8de08108
>>
>> "..... No real interferences on the horizon, but the
>> volume will be hard to sustain when the undergrads return next week
>> (Freshers' Week). I need to help getting newcomers connected (my daytime
>> job).
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Roy ""
>>
>
> What kind of pathetic loser would admit in public that their "daytime job"
> is to fluff incoming freshman? Earth calling Roy.... this is *NOT* a job you
> fool. If this crap is a "daytime job" then something as sophisticated as a
> paper-route or a lemonade stand must fall into the category of "carreer."
Further proof, right from the boobs own mouth, that he, Roy Schestowitz is
a complete fraud.
If reality were available as a soft drink, I would advise Roy Schestowitz
to drink 10 million liters and then maybe, maybe, he might realize what is
going on in the real world and how difficult it is going to be for him to
fit in.
Come to think of it I suppose he has already figured out the latter because
he seems to have made the decision to become a life time student at
University of Manchester GB.
I suppose he could always move up the ladder and become a team lead fresher
fluffer.
Ignoramus27757
>> - "How can I get my wireless networking card to work? My old Dell has a
>> Broadcom B43 wireless chipset. That's a problem with Ubuntu... It took a
>> small amount of poking around and searching Ubuntu's knowledge base to find
>> out what I needed to do.
>>
>> Still, that hasn't solved all of my wireless networking issues.... Problem
>> is, the guy who asked the original question found his connection suddenly
>> working for no good reason, so the advice doesn't carry through to the point
>> where we discover what the actual problem is and how to fix it.
>>
>> That's the way it is with open source -- tech support is the other users. So
>> I'll be posting a new question in hopes of finding the answer. I'm just glad
>> I can hardwire and get Internet access, or the problem would be a lot more
My son's laptop has Broadcom B43. It works fine, at least with
Gutsy. I will upgrade him to Hardy soon.
i
Bill Yanaire
"7" <website_...@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message
news:j3Dtk.49335$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
TomB
> - "Can I use iTunes? Nope, but there are a couple of apps -- such as Amarok
> and GTKPod -- that allow you to sync the device. You won't be able to use
> the iTunes store, but do you really want to pay Apple to tell you you..."
>
> Translation: "Those grapes are probably sour anyway."
What's up with people's obsession with iTunes? It is by far the worst
application I ever ran.
> - "Is there an automatic backup feature? Or an app available? Not really,
> but Ubuntu Forums has a pretty detailed set of instructions on how to
> accomplish a full backup through the command line."
>
> Translation: Gotta love the old command line.
And many people - including me - really do.
tommy@mordor > uptime
22:39:39 up 1:14, 5 users, load average: 0.03, 0.02, 0.02
Booted my PC about 1 hour and 15 minutes ago, and I didn't leave the
command line yet. In the meantime however I managed to
* read up on my emails
* read up on the groups I follow
* burn three data DVDs
* did some reading on wikipedia
* logging on to the MSN network
Yes, *all* from the command line.
For back-ups I had to do two hours of research, write a little script,
put it in my crontab, and never look back. Updates? Oh, there are
being taken care of. Daily.
> - "...so making it work takes some tinkering. That's one of the charms of
> Linux: You can tinker with it and learn about it along the way,
>
> Translation - "Tinkering - That's one of the charms of Linux." Others would
> call it high maintenance. While the editor of "Linux Insider" might think
> it's fun and charming to tinker all day with his OS other people simply want
> a tool to use. To most people this is about as charming as a refridgerator
> that you need to fix daily or that charming 1976 AMC Gremlin that you get to
> "tinker" with every time you want the car to start.
Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
actually learning something about computing...
To each his own, I guess.
--
Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with
the seat missing, but it hurts.
~ Frank Drebin
Tim Smith
"Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .....until now.
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>
> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make the
> move to Linux?
>
> How on earth did this guy even get the job?
Don't worry. I'm sure someone will soon find some connection between the
publisher of LinuxInsider and Microsoft (or perhaps Apple--they publish
AppleInsider, too), and so will demonstrate that this was just a paid
hit piece by the enemies of Linux. That's how it always happens.
(Queue chrisv asking for proof that this always happens...)
--
--Tim Smith
JEDIDIAH
> On 2008-08-28, Ezekiel wrote:
>
>> - "Can I use iTunes? Nope, but there are a couple of apps -- such as Amarok
>> and GTKPod -- that allow you to sync the device. You won't be able to use
You mean sync with an iPod in particular or other devices.
I have no problem keeping my Archos as up to date as I want to.
>> the iTunes store, but do you really want to pay Apple to tell you you..."
>>
>> Translation: "Those grapes are probably sour anyway."
>
> What's up with people's obsession with iTunes? It is by far the worst
> application I ever ran.
When you're sitting in a sewer, rotten tomatoes smell like roses.
iTunes is impressive when you come from the mess that is on Windows
where simple things like burning a CD require 3rd party applications.
>
>> - "Is there an automatic backup feature? Or an app available? Not really,
>> but Ubuntu Forums has a pretty detailed set of instructions on how to
>> accomplish a full backup through the command line."
There are plenty of Unix backup programs available of varying levels
of cost and sophistication. Ultimately though it doesn't matter so much
because a simple copy operation will do.
This can be Drag+Drop or through the GUI.
>>
>> Translation: Gotta love the old command line.
>
> And many people - including me - really do.
>
> tommy@mordor > uptime
> 22:39:39 up 1:14, 5 users, load average: 0.03, 0.02, 0.02
>
> Booted my PC about 1 hour and 15 minutes ago, and I didn't leave the
> command line yet. In the meantime however I managed to
> * read up on my emails
> * read up on the groups I follow
> * burn three data DVDs
> * did some reading on wikipedia
> * logging on to the MSN network
>
> Yes, *all* from the command line.
[deletia]
That makes it easy to automate and simplify things.
Having a custom command that is the equivalent of "do this" for
common tasks is really quite handy. I can even bind this to an icon
if I want to.
Other people also have the option of babysitting a GUI if that's
their thing.
--
OpenDoc is moot when Apple is your one stop iShop. |||
/ | \
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
DanS
> .....until now.
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>
> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make
> the move to Linux?
>
> How on earth did this guy even get the job?
>
> Maybe there is hope for Roy Schestowitz to find a real job after all.
>
> You have to read the article to see what a nightmare this guy went
> through getting Linux installed.
So I read thru the article. Seeming as you used the word 'nightmare', I
expected to read about some totally horrible experience. It didn't read
like that to me.
Some problems, but a 'nightmare' ?
I guess it's all relative......like how I laugh heartily when 2 inches of
snow falls in North Carolina and anywhere it falls, the entire
city/town/county/whatever closes down for an entire (work) week. I guess
to them, that is a 'nightmare'. Up here, 2 feet of snow MAY close
schools.....for one day, but everything else is business as usual. And
the next day, school is back in session and everything is back to the
norm.
Lionel B
> .....until now.
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
[...]
> You have to read the article to see what a nightmare this guy went
> through getting Linux installed.
LOL! Reminds me of a couple of years back, I had to reinstall XP on a
Dell Inspiron, as the OS went titsup due to some DLLHell(tm) issues. Now
*that* was a freaking nightmare (new hardware detected - how nice -
drivers not found, please insert CD, drivers still not found, please
reboot, please reboot again - and again... just one more time, thanks,
really... ahhhh... new hardware detected. Bollocks).
Just installed Xubuntu 8.04 today (desktop PC) - took about 1/2 hour,
everything Worked Out Of the Box(tm). What joy(*)
(*) Except for this `sudo' crap... what's the problem with `su -' ffs???
--
Lionel B
Linonut
* Moshe Goldfarb. peremptorily fired off this memo:
> .....until now.
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>
> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make the
> move to Linux?
>
> How on earth did this guy even get the job?
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20040301051959705
LinuxInsider, whoever they are, goes along with the charade, which is
a very big giveaway that while they may be insiders, they aren't
likely *Linux* insiders.
. . .
"'Call me crazy,' adds Stowell, 'but I somehow think that Pamela
Jones isn't just a paralegal with nothing better to do with her
life than host a Web site called Groklaw that is dedicated to
bashing SCO. I think there is a lot more to her background and
intentions than she is willing to reveal publicly. I believe that
Big Blue looms large behind Pamela Jones.'"
It is tempting to call him crazy, given the kind invitation, but I
think he has no such excuse. And Linux"Insider"? This is yet another
Linux"Insider" article giving Stowell a soapbox from which to attack
the Linux community, and by the way, nobody at Linux"Insider"
bothered to contact me to find out if what they were about to print
was true or to give me an opportunity to respond.
--
I trust the first lion he meets will do his duty.
-- J. P. Morgan on Teddy Roosevelt's safari
Linonut
Hint: Putting "Linux" in your corporate name doesn't mean you know
jack about Linux.
Here, it is obvious! The editor himself practically admits he didn't
know jack about it.
Hint: Putting "Insider" in your corporate name doesn't mean you really
are an "insider".
In the meantime, Zeke and Moshe get to use it as FUD fodder.
I wonder why this story is no longer available:
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/43067.html
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/7biPwnfUcng6bW/Where-the-Buck-Stops.xhtml
Anyway, maybe LinuxInsider is more on-topic these days.
--
It has been said [by Anatole France], "it is not by amusing oneself
that one learns," and, in reply: "it is *____ only* by amusing oneself that
one can learn."
-- Edward Kasner and James R. Newman
Damian
> * Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> In article <1e44nmlyuiti9$.14wq5kto3th3q$.d...@40tude.net>,
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> .....until now.
>>>
>>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>>>
>>> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to
>>> make the move to Linux?
>>>
>>> How on earth did this guy even get the job?
>>
>> Don't worry. I'm sure someone will soon find some connection
>> between the publisher of LinuxInsider and Microsoft (or perhaps
>> Apple--they publish AppleInsider, too), and so will demonstrate that
>> this was just a paid hit piece by the enemies of Linux. That's how
>> it always happens.
>>
>> (Queue chrisv asking for proof that this always happens...)
>
> Hint: Putting "Linux" in your corporate name doesn't mean you know
> jack about Linux.
That's true of newsgroups as well.
Damian
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:59:59 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>
>> .....until now.
>>
>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>
> [...]
>
>> You have to read the article to see what a nightmare this guy went
>> through getting Linux installed.
>
> LOL! Reminds me of a couple of years back, I had to reinstall XP on a
> Dell Inspiron, as the OS went titsup due to some DLLHell(tm) issues.
> Now *that* was a freaking nightmare (new hardware detected - how nice
> - drivers not found, please insert CD, drivers still not found, please
> reboot, please reboot again - and again... just one more time, thanks,
> really... ahhhh... new hardware detected. Bollocks).
Only Two possibilities:
1. Illicit copy of XP.
2. You don't know how to install Windows correctly.
Which?
Linonut
>> Hint: Putting "Linux" in your corporate name doesn't mean you know
>> jack about Linux.
>
> That's true of newsgroups as well.
Indeed! We have quite a few people in c.o.l.a. that don't know jack
about Linux. But there they are!
--
Alex Buell:
Or how about a Penguin logo painted in really really trippy
colours, and emblazoned with the word LSD. :o)
Linonut
>> LOL! Reminds me of a couple of years back, I had to reinstall XP on a
>> Dell Inspiron, as the OS went titsup due to some DLLHell(tm) issues.
>> Now *that* was a freaking nightmare (new hardware detected - how nice
>> - drivers not found, please insert CD, drivers still not found, please
>> reboot, please reboot again - and again... just one more time, thanks,
>> really... ahhhh... new hardware detected. Bollocks).
>
> Only Two possibilities:
>
> 1. Illicit copy of XP.
> 2. You don't know how to install Windows correctly.
>
> Which?
Could be a bad disk, too.
Or an XP disk with a volume license.
--
"I figured there was this holocaust, right, and the only ones left alive were
Donna Reed, Ozzie and Harriet, and the Cleavers."
-- Wil Wheaton explains why everyone in "Star Trek: The Next Generation"
is so nice
Lionel B
Vendor's disk
> 2. You don't know how to install Windows correctly.
Oh... right... you mean you don't just copy all the stuff off the CD to
your hard drive thingy? Gosh, my bad.
> Which?
Neither.
--
Lionel B
chrisv
> Only Two possibilities:
>
> 1. Illicit copy of XP.
> 2. You don't know how to install Windows correctly.
There's still time to repent, "Damian".
chrisv
> Don't worry. I'm sure someone will soon find some connection between
> the publisher of LinuxInsider and Microsoft (or perhaps Apple--they
> publish AppleInsider, too), and so will demonstrate that this was just a
> paid hit piece by the enemies of Linux. That's how it always happens.
>
> (Queue chrisv asking for proof that this always happens...)
I might, if I could understand any of that drunken gibberish.
Damian
Oh, please Lord, forgive me for recognizing ignorance when I see it and
pointing it out. Amen.
The Ghost In The Machine
<lin...@bollsouth.nut>
wrote
on Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:09:50 -0400
<c4Htk.18421$XT1....@bignews5.bellsouth.net>:
> * Damian peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>>> Hint: Putting "Linux" in your corporate name doesn't mean you know
>>> jack about Linux.
>>
>> That's true of newsgroups as well.
>
> Indeed! We have quite a few people in c.o.l.a. that don't know jack
> about Linux. But there they are!
>
I know a little about jackd and fluidsynth.
Does that count? :-) ;-) :-)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Murphy was an optimist.
Moshe Goldfarb.
They are scrambling around in damage control mode already.
Much like roaches do when a Linux advocate turns on the lights in his
mother's basement.
Snit
k1rsy0hec9gb.1jk56j4vh8ny7$.d...@40tude.net on 8/28/08 6:11 PM:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:22:20 -0700, Tim Smith wrote:
>
>> In article <1e44nmlyuiti9$.14wq5kto3th3q$.d...@40tude.net>,
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> .....until now.
>>>
>>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>>>
>>> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make the
>>> move to Linux?
>>>
>>> How on earth did this guy even get the job?
>>
>> Don't worry. I'm sure someone will soon find some connection between the
>> publisher of LinuxInsider and Microsoft (or perhaps Apple--they publish
>> AppleInsider, too), and so will demonstrate that this was just a paid
>> hit piece by the enemies of Linux. That's how it always happens.
>>
>> (Queue chrisv asking for proof that this always happens...)
>
> They are scrambling around in damage control mode already.
> Much like roaches do when a Linux advocate turns on the lights in his
> mother's basement.
The general "damage control" used in COLA is to lash out against those who
know more than you (even if only in a limited area). That is one of the
main reasons Peter Köhlman spews BS about my personal and professional life
and lies about me forging PDFs - it is why Tattoo Vampire lies about me
calling him and makes up stories about my family and calls me a "hippie" who
should find a "real job" [another moron who says teachers do not have real
jobs]. It is why *both* of them call people names and mock others.
They are insecure about themselves. They do not like themselves as they are
and do not think they can become better. They mock people who acknowledge
errors and look for any hole in someone armor where they think they can get
a good "dig".
Steve Carroll of, mostly, CSMA was the same way... and he finally had -
literally - a mental break down. I do not wish the same for Peter and
Tattoo... I sincerely hope they find it in themselves to improve themselves.
--
Picture of a tuna milkshake: http://snipurl.com/f34z
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
Moshe Goldfarb.
I haven't been following your battles however this is basically true.
An example is the FAA thread.
I happen to know a very well placed person, and have for many years and as
a result I know a lot about how that operation works.
And my information, within the limits of the systems I am familiar with via
this connection, is right on the money.
This is compared to "press releases" and pure speculation on the part of
the Linux loons in this group.
I tell it like it is and I don't really give a hoot what the problem was
other than to discuss it and possibly offer better solutions.
Another example is the "it works for me" aka CUPS thread where I point
out that the Linux loons were squawking about this long before Eric Raymond
wrote that scathing article.
They have done it for years and it's simply a lie which came out later when
normal people tried doing these various tasks and failed.
Kohlmann of course chimes in with his proof mantra.
I offered proof.
But then he starts up his little game about the proof not being good
enough.
Sorry, I don't get sucked into his vortex anymore.
Then of course Linonut has to point out that I posted the same thread link
twice as if this means anything.
It's proof and there is plenty more.
Google is FULL of Linux nuts claiming the fonts in Linux for example or
printers just *work* for them and this is way back years ago and in some
cases before they even had antialiasing on fonts and they truly looked
jagged and horrible.
For them to lie and try and discredit me with their usual "proof" crap is
ludicrous because Linonut and Kohlmann were here when all that stuff was
going on and they know full well what was said.
Several of these people here obviously have some kind of mental problem
when it comes to being honest about Linux.
I fail to understand this but I suspect it arises from being insecure,
being locked into jobs where they are using Windows 10 hours a day to earn
their living and it having some kind of effect on their psyche.
Look at Schestowitz for example.
Is his behavior even remotely normal for a college age young adult who
should be building his life?
The list goes on an on.
You can bet your sweet bippy that if it had been the editor of Microsoft
World that used Linux they would be squealing with delight.
In fact they squeal over the fact that Microsoft has a Linux lab or that
Microsoft's 3rd party caching servers run Linux.
In short the majority of comp.os.linux.advocacy's *advocates* are not
advocates at all.
They are doing far more harm to Linux than they are helping the cause.
Someone on digg put it nicely:
"Roy Schestowitz is to Linux what Pat Robertson is to religion. He scares
away more people than he converts".
This is true of many of the COLA Linux loons.
Snit
Curious what the CUPS problems are. It is now owned and maintained by a
very professional group (Apple) so I would expect it to become at least
reasonably good - and excellent at meeting Apple's specific needs.
> Kohlmann of course chimes in with his proof mantra.
Köhlmann is the last person on the planet who has any moral authority to
demand "proof". When was his last post where he referenced me that he did
not accuse me of having a sock puppet? How many times in the last month has
he spewed BS about my family - information he *clearly* knows nothing about?
How often has he completely dodged any effort to get him to back up the BS
his self-loathing inspires him to post?
> I offered proof.
> But then he starts up his little game about the proof not being good
> enough.
> Sorry, I don't get sucked into his vortex anymore.
>
> Then of course Linonut has to point out that I posted the same thread link
> twice as if this means anything.
> It's proof and there is plenty more.
Ah, Peter keep accusing me of forging a PDF... so I re-post the proof that
*every* piece of data I claim is verifiable... and then he whines that I am
reposting the same disproof to his idiotic and unsupported accusation.
I used to work at summer camps - I had a 7 year old in my cabin one year who
complained that "so-and-so is hitting me back". Well, that is what Peter is
doing... whining that I am "hitting" him back by proving his accusation is a
lie.
> Google is FULL of Linux nuts claiming the fonts in Linux for example or
> printers just *work* for them and this is way back years ago and in some
> cases before they even had antialiasing on fonts and they truly looked
> jagged and horrible.
I remember some of those debates.
> For them to lie and try and discredit me with their usual "proof" crap is
> ludicrous because Linonut and Kohlmann were here when all that stuff was
> going on and they know full well what was said.
They will not be honest about it.
> Several of these people here obviously have some kind of mental problem
> when it comes to being honest about Linux.
> I fail to understand this but I suspect it arises from being insecure,
> being locked into jobs where they are using Windows 10 hours a day to earn
> their living and it having some kind of effect on their psyche.
>
> Look at Schestowitz for example.
> Is his behavior even remotely normal for a college age young adult who
> should be building his life?
>
> The list goes on an on.
>
> You can bet your sweet bippy that if it had been the editor of Microsoft
> World that used Linux they would be squealing with delight.
> In fact they squeal over the fact that Microsoft has a Linux lab or that
> Microsoft's 3rd party caching servers run Linux.
>
> In short the majority of comp.os.linux.advocacy's *advocates* are not
> advocates at all.
Agreed.
> They are doing far more harm to Linux than they are helping the cause.
>
> Someone on digg put it nicely:
>
> "Roy Schestowitz is to Linux what Pat Robertson is to religion. He scares
> away more people than he converts".
>
> This is true of many of the COLA Linux loons.
Robertsom is sane compared to many in COLA.
--
Satan lives for my sins... now *that* is dedication!
DFS
> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
> actually learning something about computing...
Like what?
Moshe Goldfarb.
> Curious what the CUPS problems are. It is now owned and maintained by a
> very professional group (Apple) so I would expect it to become at least
> reasonably good - and excellent at meeting Apple's specific needs.
Which is why it works reasonably well these days, assuming a qualit driver
is available for your printer model.
I'm talking about years ago when it was very difficult to configure, like
Eric Raymond reported when HE had problems with it.
At that time, and well before that letter, the loons in COLA claimed it was
easy, they just plugged in their printer, etc.
You know the usual stuff.
>> Kohlmann of course chimes in with his proof mantra.
>
> Köhlmann is the last person on the planet who has any moral authority to
> demand "proof". When was his last post where he referenced me that he did
> not accuse me of having a sock puppet? How many times in the last month has
> he spewed BS about my family - information he *clearly* knows nothing about?
> How often has he completely dodged any effort to get him to back up the BS
> his self-loathing inspires him to post?
Peter is a very bitter person.
> Ah, Peter keep accusing me of forging a PDF... so I re-post the proof that
> *every* piece of data I claim is verifiable... and then he whines that I am
> reposting the same disproof to his idiotic and unsupported accusation.
>
> I used to work at summer camps - I had a 7 year old in my cabin one year who
> complained that "so-and-so is hitting me back". Well, that is what Peter is
> doing... whining that I am "hitting" him back by proving his accusation is a
> lie.
I haven't been following all this but Peter loves to make accusations but
when asked for proof he will never provide you with any.
He usually runs away.
>> Google is FULL of Linux nuts claiming the fonts in Linux for example or
>> printers just *work* for them and this is way back years ago and in some
>> cases before they even had antialiasing on fonts and they truly looked
>> jagged and horrible.
>
> I remember some of those debates.
So do the Linux advocates but being the liars that they are, they will
deny, discredit and attack rather than admit the truth.
>> For them to lie and try and discredit me with their usual "proof" crap is
>> ludicrous because Linonut and Kohlmann were here when all that stuff was
>> going on and they know full well what was said.
>
> They will not be honest about it.
Of course not.
>> Several of these people here obviously have some kind of mental problem
>> when it comes to being honest about Linux.
>> I fail to understand this but I suspect it arises from being insecure,
>> being locked into jobs where they are using Windows 10 hours a day to earn
>> their living and it having some kind of effect on their psyche.
>>
>> Look at Schestowitz for example.
>> Is his behavior even remotely normal for a college age young adult who
>> should be building his life?
>>
>> The list goes on an on.
>>
>> You can bet your sweet bippy that if it had been the editor of Microsoft
>> World that used Linux they would be squealing with delight.
>> In fact they squeal over the fact that Microsoft has a Linux lab or that
>> Microsoft's 3rd party caching servers run Linux.
>>
>> In short the majority of comp.os.linux.advocacy's *advocates* are not
>> advocates at all.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> They are doing far more harm to Linux than they are helping the cause.
>>
>> Someone on digg put it nicely:
>>
>> "Roy Schestowitz is to Linux what Pat Robertson is to religion. He scares
>> away more people than he converts".
>>
>> This is true of many of the COLA Linux loons.
>
> Robertsom is sane compared to many in COLA.
Yes he is....
Moshe Goldfarb.
How to spend 2 weeks trying to get wireless working with Linux.
Hadron
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:27:03 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> TomB wrote:
>>
>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>
>> Like what?
>
> How to spend 2 weeks trying to get wireless working with Linux.
Patience?
--
"Unfortunately, once again, the user-unfriendly dirtware sucks so bad it's
hard to prove how bad it sucks."
-- "DFS" <nospam@dfs_.com> in comp.os.linux.advocacy
Moshe Goldfarb.
> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:27:03 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> TomB wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>>
>>> Like what?
>>
>> How to spend 2 weeks trying to get wireless working with Linux.
>
> Patience?
Yea....
Lot's of it...
DFS
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:27:03 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> TomB wrote:
>>
>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet,
>>> I'm actually learning something about computing...
>>
>> Like what?
>
> How to spend 2 weeks trying to get wireless working with Linux.
A crash course in crapware...
Snit
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:17:01 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>
>> Curious what the CUPS problems are. It is now owned and maintained by a
>> very professional group (Apple) so I would expect it to become at least
>> reasonably good - and excellent at meeting Apple's specific needs.
>
>
> Which is why it works reasonably well these days, assuming a qualit driver
> is available for your printer model.
>
> I'm talking about years ago when it was very difficult to configure, like
> Eric Raymond reported when HE had problems with it.
>
> At that time, and well before that letter, the loons in COLA claimed it was
> easy, they just plugged in their printer, etc.
>
> You know the usual stuff.
OK... that makes more sense. I thought you meant serious issues with CUPS
as it is... and I had not heard of any.
>>> Kohlmann of course chimes in with his proof mantra.
>>
>> Köhlmann is the last person on the planet who has any moral authority to
>> demand "proof". When was his last post where he referenced me that he did
>> not accuse me of having a sock puppet? How many times in the last month has
>> he spewed BS about my family - information he *clearly* knows nothing about?
>> How often has he completely dodged any effort to get him to back up the BS
>> his self-loathing inspires him to post?
>
> Peter is a very bitter person.
No doubt. None at all.
>> Ah, Peter keep accusing me of forging a PDF... so I re-post the proof that
>> *every* piece of data I claim is verifiable... and then he whines that I am
>> reposting the same disproof to his idiotic and unsupported accusation.
>>
>> I used to work at summer camps - I had a 7 year old in my cabin one year who
>> complained that "so-and-so is hitting me back". Well, that is what Peter is
>> doing... whining that I am "hitting" him back by proving his accusation is a
>> lie.
>
> I haven't been following all this but Peter loves to make accusations but
> when asked for proof he will never provide you with any.
> He usually runs away.
He is not running away now... he whines about the proof he is a liar and
then re-posts his *same* lie. Then whines that the proof he is a liar is
being posted again.
He may very well be mentally ill. Really.
>>> Google is FULL of Linux nuts claiming the fonts in Linux for example or
>>> printers just *work* for them and this is way back years ago and in some
>>> cases before they even had antialiasing on fonts and they truly looked
>>> jagged and horrible.
>>
>> I remember some of those debates.
>
> So do the Linux advocates but being the liars that they are, they will
> deny, discredit and attack rather than admit the truth.
No doubt. None at all.
...
--
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley
TomB
A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
That's one example.
--
I am the literary equivalent of a Big Mac and Fries.
~ Stephen King
Snit
S3Otk.184676$ah4.1...@newsfe15.ams2 on 8/29/08 1:04 AM:
> On 2008-08-29, DFS wrote:
>> TomB wrote:
>>
>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>
>> Like what?
>
> A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
> That's one example.
Great! As if bashing each other in COLA was not enough know you are going
to automate it. :)
--
Teachers open the door but you must walk through it yourself.
Hadron
> On 2008-08-29, DFS wrote:
>> TomB wrote:
>>
>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>
>> Like what?
>
> A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
> That's one example.
Yes one tends to have to. I think the point being made is what good it
does you in the real world. Are you going to get a job programming bash
on Linux systems? What skills does it impart that implementing, say
Python, on a Windows system doesn't improve on?
Note : I think its fun. But to suggest you are "educating yourself" in
the context here is a bit far fetched in that it doesnt make you any
cleverer or useful to the rest of the world in general.
I recently had to educate myself to use the nvidia-glx drivers on
Debian. It now works. Did I learn anything? A) Yes. That some of the
debian maintainers are arseholes and dont care if their "politics" screw
up other peoples systems.
Moshe Goldfarb.
> On 2008-08-29, DFS wrote:
>> TomB wrote:
>>
>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>
>> Like what?
>
> A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
> That's one example.
Just the thing average Joe needs to learn.....
Moshe Goldfarb.
That's exactly the perception average Joe will have of Linux.
Look I'm not knocking people who get their kicks delving into the innards
of software, I am just saying in this world we live in people want the
computer to be an appliance, not something they have to master in order to
use.
TomB
> TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2008-08-29, DFS wrote:
>>> TomB wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>>
>>> Like what?
>>
>> A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
>> That's one example.
>
> Yes one tends to have to. I think the point being made is what good it
> does you in the real world. Are you going to get a job programming bash
> on Linux systems? What skills does it impart that implementing, say
> Python, on a Windows system doesn't improve on?
I don't learn new stuff to get a job. I learn new stuff to better
myself. I also play the drums, and no way is getting good at drumming
will ever get me a job. It's the same for stuff I learn on my computer.
But bash programming skill are useful in some jobs. If you are the
admin of a big Linux server park, you want to know about bash and
other shell scripting techniques.
> Note : I think its fun. But to suggest you are "educating yourself" in
> the context here is a bit far fetched in that it doesnt make you any
> cleverer or useful to the rest of the world in general.
I don't care about "the rest of the world in general". I do what I do
for myself, not for "the rest of the world".
--
Hippies.They're everywhere. They wanna save the earth, but all they do
is smoke pot and smell bad.
~ Eric Cartman
Hadron
And as I said very commendable. Just dont sell it as a "plus". Most
people have to delve into Bash because their system is hosed or they
need to develop something not yet available. its not a "plus" to the
average user. Frankly I think Bash syntax sucks too. Sure you get a warm
feeling when something works but I need to go back to the manual each
and every time and I dont feel "improved" by learning its archaic
format.
Linonut
> chrisv wrote:
But you pointed out half of the possibilities.
--
There are certain things men must do to remain men.
-- Kirk, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4929.4
Linonut
> TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
>> That's one example.
>
> Yes one tends to have to. I think the point being made is what good it
> does you in the real world. Are you going to get a job programming bash
> on Linux systems? What skills does it impart that implementing, say
> Python, on a Windows system doesn't improve on?
It imparts skills relevant to nearly any UNIX-based system.
> Note : I think its fun. But to suggest you are "educating yourself" in
> the context here is a bit far fetched in that it doesnt make you any
> cleverer or useful to the rest of the world in general.
But it does make him more technically useful, and even helps him in
evaluating the efficacy of certain Microsoft tools (e.g. powershell).
> I recently had to educate myself to use the nvidia-glx drivers on
> Debian. It now works. Did I learn anything? A) Yes. That some of the
> debian maintainers are arseholes and dont care if their "politics" screw
> up other peoples systems.
Ya take the bad with the good. Personally, I still do NVIDIA and
kernels the old-fashioned way. People on the Debian list have promised
disaster, but it hasn't happened yet.
As an aside, I've found I no longer have to deal with vendor packages
for the Intel 3945G (sp?) wireless stuff anymore. That's gotten pretty
solid except for one /annoyance/ -- no "wireless" activity light from
the new version of their driver. WTF?
--
There's nothing like the face of a kid eating a Hershey bar.
Linonut
> On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:04:02 GMT, TomB wrote:
>
>> On 2008-08-29, DFS wrote:
>>> TomB wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>>
>>> Like what?
>>
>> A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
>> That's one example.
>
> Just the thing average Joe needs to learn.....
Let us know when /any/ computer is a foolproof appliance that Joe can
use with impunity.
--
"Rights" is a fictional abstraction. No one has "Rights", neither machines
nor flesh-and-blood. Persons... have opportunities, not rights, which they
use or do not use.
-- Lazarus Long
Tattoo Vampire
> Just dont sell it as a "plus".
It's a plus for him personally, you stupid condescending asshat.
--
Regards,
[tv]
...Taglines: the toilet-stall walls of the Internet
Owner/Proprietor, Cheesus Crust Pizza Company
Good to the last supper
JEDIDIAH
> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:1e44nmlyuiti9$.14wq5kto3th3q$.d...@40tude.net:
>> .....until now.
>>
>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>>
>> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make
>> the move to Linux?
>>
>> How on earth did this guy even get the job?
...possibly had to do with the whole "editing" thing.
[deletia]
--
It is not true that Microsoft doesn't innovate.
They brought us the email virus.
In my Atari days, such a notion would have |||
been considered a complete absurdity. / | \
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
Ezekiel
"JEDIDIAH" <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
news:slrngbe81...@nomad.mishnet...
> On 2008-08-28, TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2008-08-28, Ezekiel wrote:
>>
>>> the iTunes store, but do you really want to pay Apple to tell you
>>> you..."
>>>
>>> Translation: "Those grapes are probably sour anyway."
>>
>> What's up with people's obsession with iTunes? It is by far the worst
>> application I ever ran.
>
> When you're sitting in a sewer, rotten tomatoes smell like roses.
I don't sit or live anywhere near a sewer. I find your personal experience
interesting.
> iTunes is impressive when you come from the mess that is on Windows
> where simple things like burning a CD require 3rd party applications.
So the 'linux kernel' can now burn CD's or does it also require a 3rd party
application?
One additional note for you clueless - Windows has been able to burn CD's
directly since WinXP. It's available directly through Windows Explorer
without the need for any 3rd party apps. But don't let facts get in the way
of your ignorance.
Ezekiel
"TomB" <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:B9Rtk.39228$W71....@newsfe12.ams2...
> On 2008-08-29, Hadron wrote:
>> TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2008-08-29, DFS wrote:
>>>> TomB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>>>
>>>> Like what?
>>>
>>> A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
>>> That's one example.
>>
>> Yes one tends to have to. I think the point being made is what good it
>> does you in the real world. Are you going to get a job programming bash
>> on Linux systems? What skills does it impart that implementing, say
>> Python, on a Windows system doesn't improve on?
>
> I don't learn new stuff to get a job. I learn new stuff to better
> myself. I also play the drums, and no way is getting good at drumming
> will ever get me a job. It's the same for stuff I learn on my computer.
>
> But bash programming skill are useful in some jobs. If you are the
> admin of a big Linux server park, you want to know about bash and
> other shell scripting techniques.
I taught myself how to write shell scripts (bash, ksh, etc). I didn't
dedicate 2 weeks to do it but instead I scripted some tasks that I wanted to
do. From this I learned the basics of shell scripting so now when I
encounter a script at work for example, the script makes pretty good sense
to me. I'm getting better at scripting as time goes on and as I need to use
new features that I haven't used before.
Now...as someone that's used shell scripting and Windows scripting (via
JScript) I would say that JScript is superior to shell scripting on nix.
Perhaps it's more fair to compare shell scripts with batch files in which
shell scripts are orders of magnitude better. But Windows scripting has been
available since Win2k and JScript is definitely better than shell scripts.
Neither can hold a candle to Python IMO so I generally tend to use Python
when possible.
>> Note : I think its fun. But to suggest you are "educating yourself" in
>> the context here is a bit far fetched in that it doesnt make you any
>> cleverer or useful to the rest of the world in general.
>
> I don't care about "the rest of the world in general". I do what I do
> for myself, not for "the rest of the world".
>
> --
> Hippies.They're everywhere. They wanna save the earth, but all they do
> is smoke pot and smell bad.
> ~ Eric Cartman
JEDIDIAH
> * Hadron peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>> I recently had to educate myself to use the nvidia-glx drivers on
>> Debian. It now works. Did I learn anything? A) Yes. That some of the
>> debian maintainers are arseholes and dont care if their "politics" screw
>> up other peoples systems.
>
> Ya take the bad with the good. Personally, I still do NVIDIA and
...exactly. The Debian guys have some very well stated principles.
You can agree with them or not but you can't really claim ignorance
of them.
The fact that you can "take your business elsewhere" is why
meaningful free will is a very good thing.
> kernels the old-fashioned way. People on the Debian list have promised
> disaster, but it hasn't happened yet.
>
> As an aside, I've found I no longer have to deal with vendor packages
> for the Intel 3945G (sp?) wireless stuff anymore. That's gotten pretty
> solid except for one /annoyance/ -- no "wireless" activity light from
> the new version of their driver. WTF?
>
--
It is not true that Microsoft doesn't innovate.
JEDIDIAH
> Lionel B wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:59:59 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>
>>> .....until now.
>>>
>>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>>
>>
>>> You have to read the article to see what a nightmare this guy went
>>> through getting Linux installed.
>>
>> LOL! Reminds me of a couple of years back, I had to reinstall XP on a
>> Dell Inspiron, as the OS went titsup due to some DLLHell(tm) issues.
>> Now *that* was a freaking nightmare (new hardware detected - how nice
>> - drivers not found, please insert CD, drivers still not found, please
>> reboot, please reboot again - and again... just one more time, thanks,
>> really... ahhhh... new hardware detected. Bollocks).
>
>
> Only Two possibilities:
>
> 1. Illicit copy of XP.
> 2. You don't know how to install Windows correctly.
>
Why should either one be a problem?
Software shouldn't break just because it isn't properly licensed.
Beyond the purely technical problems this poses, there's also the
administrative overhead involved.
Either way, the software is broken in some way.
Windows is supposed to be "the easy OS" "suitable for joe sixpack".
The question of whether or not some random end user is "leet" enough
to install it all by himself shouldn't even come up.
JEDIDIAH
...it is when something doesn't exist yet in a shiny happy form.
Being free from babysitting a GUI is a great benefit too. Although
admittedly it's a benefit that many don't fully appreciate.
> feeling when something works but I need to go back to the manual each
> and every time and I dont feel "improved" by learning its archaic
> format.
...well, if you have to go back to the manual "each and every time" then
you are an idiot that should stick to Macs. It's really not that hard.
Anyone that has any business programming anything should really have no
problem with it. Ultimately, it's just another procedural language and
a set of libraries/functions.
JEDIDIAH
>
> "JEDIDIAH" <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
> news:slrngbe81...@nomad.mishnet...
>> On 2008-08-28, TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2008-08-28, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>
>>>> the iTunes store, but do you really want to pay Apple to tell you
>>>> you..."
>>>>
>>>> Translation: "Those grapes are probably sour anyway."
>>>
>>> What's up with people's obsession with iTunes? It is by far the worst
>>> application I ever ran.
>>
>> When you're sitting in a sewer, rotten tomatoes smell like roses.
>
> I don't sit or live anywhere near a sewer. I find your personal experience
> interesting.
>
>
>> iTunes is impressive when you come from the mess that is on Windows
>> where simple things like burning a CD require 3rd party applications.
>
> So the 'linux kernel' can now burn CD's or does it also require a 3rd party
> application?
You mean like Nero? No.
>
> One additional note for you clueless - Windows has been able to burn CD's
> directly since WinXP. It's available directly through Windows Explorer
Yup. It makes nice coasters.
> without the need for any 3rd party apps. But don't let facts get in the way
> of your ignorance.
No. I speak from directly observed personal experience.
We put a CD-R into the drive and Vista wanted to format it.
Vista by itself makes coasters.
--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \
JEDIDIAH
Why exactly?
> Perhaps it's more fair to compare shell scripts with batch files in which
> shell scripts are orders of magnitude better. But Windows scripting has been
...then they can't really compare to batch files then.
[deletia]
TomB
> TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>> I don't care about "the rest of the world in general". I do what I do
>> for myself, not for "the rest of the world".
>
> And as I said very commendable. Just dont sell it as a "plus".
To *me* it *is* a plus. Period. I don't care for what it is to others.
--
Abort, Retry, Fail?
Linonut
> Now...as someone that's used shell scripting and Windows scripting (via
> JScript) I would say that JScript is superior to shell scripting on nix.
> Perhaps it's more fair to compare shell scripts with batch files in which
> shell scripts are orders of magnitude better. But Windows scripting has been
> available since Win2k and JScript is definitely better than shell scripts.
>
> Neither can hold a candle to Python IMO so I generally tend to use Python
> when possible.
I use bash and Perl quite regularly, and Python less so, but they all
have their sweet spots. I suspect Perl and Python scripts are quite a
bit more portable than bash scripts, but I still like them.
--
A holding company is a thing where you hand an accomplice the goods while
the policeman searches you.
Ezekiel
"JEDIDIAH" <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
Cleaner and more consistent syntax. Object oriented. Exception handling.
For non-trivial scripts Java scales better (readability, code
maintainability) than shell scripts.
Ezekiel
"Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
news:9cVtk.18834$De7....@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>* Ezekiel peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> Now...as someone that's used shell scripting and Windows scripting (via
>> JScript) I would say that JScript is superior to shell scripting on nix.
>> Perhaps it's more fair to compare shell scripts with batch files in
>> which
>> shell scripts are orders of magnitude better. But Windows scripting has
>> been
>> available since Win2k and JScript is definitely better than shell
>> scripts.
>>
>> Neither can hold a candle to Python IMO so I generally tend to use
>> Python
>> when possible.
>
> I use bash and Perl quite regularly, and Python less so, but they all
> have their sweet spots. I suspect Perl and Python scripts are quite a
> bit more portable than bash scripts, but I still like them.
I started fooling around with Perl many years ago but never liked it. The
syntax was just too bizzare for me. I like Python much better because it
produces more readable code. My only complaint against Python would be that
it relies too much on code indentation. Give me the option to use braces
( {} ) to control the scope of if statements and loops. I also like the
huge library of 3rd party apps for Python that let you do anything from
simple stuff to control robotics.
> --
> A holding company is a thing where you hand an accomplice the goods while
> the policeman searches you.
Tom Shelton
>
>> On 2008-08-29, DFS wrote:
>>> TomB wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>>
>>> Like what?
>>
>> A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
>> That's one example.
>
> Yes one tends to have to. I think the point being made is what good it
> does you in the real world. Are you going to get a job programming bash
> on Linux systems? What skills does it impart that implementing, say
> Python, on a Windows system doesn't improve on?
There is nothing better then PowerShell on windows right now. PowerShell
rocks hard!
--
Tom Shelton
Ezekiel
"JEDIDIAH" <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
> On 2008-08-29, Ezekiel <ze...@zekerules.com> wrote:
>>
>> "JEDIDIAH" <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>> news:slrngbe81...@nomad.mishnet...
>>> On 2008-08-28, TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2008-08-28, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> the iTunes store, but do you really want to pay Apple to tell you
>>>>> you..."
>>>>>
>>>>> Translation: "Those grapes are probably sour anyway."
>>>>
>>>> What's up with people's obsession with iTunes? It is by far the worst
>>>> application I ever ran.
>>>
>>> When you're sitting in a sewer, rotten tomatoes smell like roses.
>>
>> I don't sit or live anywhere near a sewer. I find your personal
>> experience
>> interesting.
>>
>>
>>> iTunes is impressive when you come from the mess that is on Windows
>>> where simple things like burning a CD require 3rd party applications.
>>
>> So the 'linux kernel' can now burn CD's or does it also require a 3rd
>> party
>> application?
>
> You mean like Nero? No.
No, I mean like k3b which is a 3rd party app. It's free and often included
but it's still a 3rd party application.
>>
>> One additional note for you clueless - Windows has been able to burn
>> CD's
>> directly since WinXP. It's available directly through Windows Explorer
>
> Yup. It makes nice coasters.
Only if the person using it is completely inept.
>> without the need for any 3rd party apps. But don't let facts get in the
>> way
>> of your ignorance.
>
> No. I speak from directly observed personal experience.
Thanks for proving my point about the user being inept. Somehow 100's of
millions of people don't have a problem with burning CD's. After all, the
CD burning engine is licensed from Adaptec's CD creation software. But
evidently even this is too difficult for you to manage. Perhaps computing
isn't your cup of tea?
> We put a CD-R into the drive and Vista wanted to format it.
>
> Vista by itself makes coasters.
The subject isn't Vista - it's Windows. More precisely you wrote - "on
Windows where simple things like burning a CD require 3rd party
applications"
You didn't specify Vista so don't go moving goal posts now. You said
Windows which in the majority of cases means XP. The CD burning that comes
with XP works fine and your lies and inability to use simple software
doesn't change that.
Tom Shelton
PowerShell is the best windows scripting solution there is right now, IMHO.
--
Tom Shelton
Peter Köhlmann
Well, it could very well be that on windows there is nothing better now.
That does not mean that it is any good, though
--
Proposed Additions to the PDP-11 Instruction Set:
BOB Branch On Bug
BPO Branch on Power Off
Tom Shelton
Have you used it? I have used ksh and bash off and on for a long time (I'm no
expert, but I have done a lot of simple scripts) - and personally, I think
PowerShell is way better then both. Of course, that could be because
syntactically, it looks a bit like Perl (which ins't a coincedence, because
originally they were going to use Perl as the langauge for PowerShell) - and
I'm an old Perl nut. Really rusty now - but, one of my first real
programming jobs was writing cgi scripts in Perl on a FreeBSD server :)
--
Tom Shelton
Peter Köhlmann
> On 2008-08-29, Peter Köhlmann <peter.k...@arcor.de> wrote:
>> Tom Shelton wrote:
>>
>>> On 2008-08-29, Hadron <hadro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2008-08-29, DFS wrote:
>>>>>> TomB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet,
>>>>>>> I'm actually learning something about computing...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like what?
>>>>>
>>>>> A bunch of stuff. I'm looking into bash scripting at the moment.
>>>>> That's one example.
>>>>
>>>> Yes one tends to have to. I think the point being made is what good it
>>>> does you in the real world. Are you going to get a job programming bash
>>>> on Linux systems? What skills does it impart that implementing, say
>>>> Python, on a Windows system doesn't improve on?
>>>
>>> There is nothing better then PowerShell on windows right now.
>>> PowerShell rocks hard!
>>>
>>
>> Well, it could very well be that on windows there is nothing better now.
>> That does not mean that it is any good, though
>
> Have you used it?
I tried it once. And then decided that it is basically useless to me, since
I don't even do developing windows code on windows anymore. Just the actual
compile and testing. Otherwise windows machines are useless for me. I don't
work on windows anymore, when windows apps are compiled and tested it is
powerdown time. All the rest is better done on linux
> I have used ksh and bash off and on for a long time
> (I'm no expert, but I have done a lot of simple scripts) - and personally,
> I think
> PowerShell is way better then both. Of course, that could be because
> syntactically, it looks a bit like Perl (which ins't a coincedence,
> because originally they were going to use Perl as the langauge for
> PowerShell) - and
> I'm an old Perl nut. Really rusty now - but, one of my first real
> programming jobs was writing cgi scripts in Perl on a FreeBSD server :)
>
This is all fine. Still, scripting on linux is way ahead of windows
--
To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it.
To mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it.
Damian
> * Damian peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>> Damian wrote:
>>>
>>>> Only Two possibilities:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Illicit copy of XP.
>>>> 2. You don't know how to install Windows correctly.
>>>
>>> There's still time to repent, "Damian".
>>
>> Oh, please Lord, forgive me for recognizing ignorance when I see it
>> and pointing it out. Amen.
>
> But you pointed out half of the possibilities.
Shhhh.
<I know, I was trying to appease chrisv.>
Damian
> On 2008-08-29, Damian <nos...@rabid-dog.net> wrote:
>> Lionel B wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:59:59 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>
>>>> .....until now.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> You have to read the article to see what a nightmare this guy went
>>>> through getting Linux installed.
>>>
>>> LOL! Reminds me of a couple of years back, I had to reinstall XP on
>>> a Dell Inspiron, as the OS went titsup due to some DLLHell(tm)
>>> issues. Now *that* was a freaking nightmare (new hardware detected
>>> - how nice - drivers not found, please insert CD, drivers still not
>>> found, please reboot, please reboot again - and again... just one
>>> more time, thanks, really... ahhhh... new hardware detected.
>>> Bollocks).
>>
>>
>> Only Two possibilities:
>>
>> 1. Illicit copy of XP.
>> 2. You don't know how to install Windows correctly.
>>
>> Which?
>
> Why should either one be a problem?
Oh dear God. You're serious, aren't you? Do you use linux or something?
Tim Smith
"Ezekiel" <Ze...@z.com> wrote:
> > We put a CD-R into the drive and Vista wanted to format it.
> >
> > Vista by itself makes coasters.
>
> The subject isn't Vista - it's Windows. More precisely you wrote - "on
> Windows where simple things like burning a CD require 3rd party
> applications"
Also, what is wrong with it wanting to format blank media? Isn't it
just trying to put a UDF filesystem on the disc, so that the user can
add files at will? (And delete them, although on a CD-R the file is
not actually erased, just hidden).
--
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
> I use bash and Perl quite regularly, and Python less so, but they all
> have their sweet spots. I suspect Perl and Python scripts are quite a
> bit more portable than bash scripts, but I still like them.
Yeah, portability can be a problem in shell scripts. There are many
common commands that have different default behavior, and take different
arguments on different Unix and Unix-like systems. It can get annoying
if you want you shell script to work on Linux, and FreeBSD, and OS X,
for instance.
Using Perl, and doing everything using standard Perl modules, often gets
around this.
--
--Tim Smith
Tom Shelton
Ok, so you don't really have a frame of refrence to compare then do you?
>> I have used ksh and bash off and on for a long time
>> (I'm no expert, but I have done a lot of simple scripts) - and personally,
>> I think
>> PowerShell is way better then both. Of course, that could be because
>> syntactically, it looks a bit like Perl (which ins't a coincedence,
>> because originally they were going to use Perl as the langauge for
>> PowerShell) - and
>> I'm an old Perl nut. Really rusty now - but, one of my first real
>> programming jobs was writing cgi scripts in Perl on a FreeBSD server :)
>>
>
> This is all fine. Still, scripting on linux is way ahead of windows
I can't agree. I don't think that has been the case for a long time. You've
been able to automate lots of tasks on windows using wsh (either vbscript,
javascript, or perlscript if you install activestate perl) for years. About
the only thing you can say for a *nix scripting environment is that there are
usually a lot more command line utilities to performe certain tasks. But,
many of the things that you might do with a commandline app on windows, are
done via com interfaces on windows. Like interacting with the taskscheduler
(though there is a commandline utility for that as of windows xp) or
administering IIS or even sending a fax via fax services - or even burn an iso
from a cd.
It seems to me that a lot of *nix people assume that just because something
can't be done by typeing it in at the console window that it can't be scripted
- but that isn't the case at all.
--
Tom Shelton
JEDIDIAH
k3b is entirely optional.
>
>
>>>
>>> One additional note for you clueless - Windows has been able to burn
>>> CD's
>>> directly since WinXP. It's available directly through Windows Explorer
>>
>> Yup. It makes nice coasters.
>
> Only if the person using it is completely inept.
That kinda defeats the whole point of Windows then...
>
>
>>> without the need for any 3rd party apps. But don't let facts get in the
>>> way
>>> of your ignorance.
>>
>> No. I speak from directly observed personal experience.
>
> Thanks for proving my point about the user being inept. Somehow 100's of
> millions of people don't have a problem with burning CD's. After all, the
Mebbe they're all using iTunes or Nero.
> CD burning engine is licensed from Adaptec's CD creation software. But
> evidently even this is too difficult for you to manage. Perhaps computing
> isn't your cup of tea?
Sure, blame the user because the software is off it's rocker.
>
>
>> We put a CD-R into the drive and Vista wanted to format it.
>>
>> Vista by itself makes coasters.
>
> The subject isn't Vista - it's Windows. More precisely you wrote - "on
> Windows where simple things like burning a CD require 3rd party
> applications"
Yup.
>
> You didn't specify Vista so don't go moving goal posts now. You said
Well, Vista is the CURRENT version of Windows. That's hardly
"goalpoast moving" by any stretch of the imagination.
> Windows which in the majority of cases means XP. The CD burning that comes
> with XP works fine and your lies and inability to use simple software
> doesn't change that.
Sure. The fact that Vista insists on TRYING TO FORMAT A CD-R is "all
the end users" fault.
It's little wonder that Apple is doing so well.
--
Unfortunately, the universe will not conform itself to
your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens |||
rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal / | \
affairs, government and business.
JEDIDIAH
For small scale primarily procedural tasks, the OO aspect of Java
is more trouble than it's worth. It's the shell scripting equivalent
of trying to ride a freight train down the street to go to the corner
grocer.
> For non-trivial scripts Java scales better (readability, code
> maintainability) than shell scripts.
Java doesn't scale well down that far.
--
Unfortunately, the universe will not conform itself to
your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens |||
rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal / | \
affairs, government and business.
TomB
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:27:03 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> TomB wrote:
>>
>>> Ah well, while you are busy posting anti-Linux messages on usenet, I'm
>>> actually learning something about computing...
>>
>> Like what?
>
>
Well, a couple of months ago I spent 2 evenings on getting a USR wifi
USB dongle to work. Actually I had it working after 5 minutes, but
unfortunately WPA was not supported through ndiswrapper.
Next time I will buy a wifi USB dongle that provides linux drivers.
Lesson learned.
Bad guy in this story: USR. Not Linux.
I'd also like to take the opportunity to set the following straight:
it is not the operating system that should support the device. It is
the device that should support the operating system.
Think about it.
--
You have to be an intellectual to believe such nonsense. No ordinary
man could be such a fool.
~ George Orwell
Tom Shelton
I'm certainly not. I hate iTunes as an application - wmp burns audio disks
just fine. For iso's I use iso recorder (which uses the built in windows com
interface) - though, I usually mount the iso's directly so, I don't usually
burn them much. And for data cd's, I just do the native windows stuff. DVD's
I've done with Windows Movie Maker and in vista utlimate they have some dvd
maker wizard that I've used quite succesfully. The point is, other then
isorecorder (to handle iso's since, that functionality isn't exposed by the
standard windows interfaces - even though it's supported by the driver) - I
don't use any 3rd party software to make dvd's or cd's. And, except for some
bad dvd media I bought - have always worked 100%.
--
Tom Shelton
The Ghost In The Machine
<peter.k...@arcor.de>
wrote
on Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:28:59 +0200
<48b83fec$0$20706$9b4e...@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>:
I'll admit to wondering about Powershell. At best,
it's a bit of a gimmick, and readily implementable on
Linux with some work. The main thing required would be
a multilanguage persistence library; something along the
lines of Castor, only standardized and implemented in Java,
C, C++, C#, Python, Ruby, and Tcl.
At worst, it's a complete waste of software.
There are several things missing in Linux scripting, none
of which (AFAIK) are addressed in Powershell (and not all
that easily addressable by any shell, absent a fair amount
of work). I won't say the following are *necessary*,
but may be "nice to haves":
- Extension of the file expansion capability to include
option expansion capability. For example, typing in
'command --h' then pressing <TAB> would expand out the
--h to --help. The shell would have to -- somehow --
know the command's command structure in order to do
this properly. A double tab would also work in some
options to show the keywords available.
- An overridable, customizable GUI for impromptu forms of
arbitrary CLI commands (commands for the GUI have
their own issues). For a simple command that takes two
files, one might get a 8-widget GUI, neatly laid out:
two labels, two text fields, two "Browse..." buttons,
and [OK] and [CANCEL]. For a command such as cp, one
might have issues, but ideally the GUI would mimic all
cp functionality (including copying files from multiple
directories into a single output dir).
* Overridable: the standard functionality would be reasonable
but the command could override that functionality, providing
custom forms.
* Customizable: the user could customize the placement,
coloration, and in some cases shape of the widgets/controls
in the forms.
(I should note that Mentor Graphics had something like this.)
The utility library would be smart enough not to try to
do anything horribly stupid if $DISPLAY is unavailable.
- An Apolloism [*] that never made it:
cpf {?*}.txt =.xml
The cpf command is DomainOS's answer to cp, and
it will see two arguments: '{?*}.txt' and '=.xml'
(a multi-argument form is also available but '=' is
probably not allowed in that case). A standard library
handled most of the gruntwork within the command proper,
to pull out the actual filenames. The closest Unix
equivalent I can think of is along the lines of
find . -maxdepth 1 -name '*.txt' | sed 's,\.txt$,,' | \
while read b; do cp "$b".txt "$b".xml; done
or
find . -maxdepth 1 -name '*.txt' | \
sed 's,^\(.*\)\.txt,cp "\1.txt" "\1.xml" | sh -x
There are subtle ramifications in both of these pipelines
regarding spaces, backslashes, newlines, etc. Clearly
the DomainOS variant is much cleaner and somewhat more
intuitive, though harder to implement.
Other wildcards include the usual [a-z] and '...' for
arbitrary depthsearch. ld /.../?*.jpg [+] might, for
instance, list all files ending in .jpg, no matter
where they are in the tree. (Such an operation would
of course be rather expensive.)
The MS-DOS variant would be COPY *.TXT *.XML .
- A visual piping system that is somewhat akin to software
I've seen long ago for MIDI on the Amiga. I suspect Mac
has similar software.
I could go on, and again, I'm not sure how necessary
or even desirable these are, but I toss these out
as possibilities.
[*] hopefully, my memory is correct here.
[+] shorthand for "list directory" in DomainOS, analogous
to Unix's 'ls' command and an unfortunate coincidence to
the Unix 'ld' command, which is used in compilation
(the DomainOS for *that* is 'bind'). I used to type in
'ld' a little too often when I switched back to Unix,
and of course it would respond 'no input files'.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Useless C/C++ Programming Idea #12398234:
void f(char *p) {char *q = strdup(p); strcpy(p,q);}
JEDIDIAH
The "portability problem" is not so bad if you've been around for
awhile but perl is nice in this respect. Where Perl comes in really
handy is if you have a number of Windows boxes in the mix of machines
you support. Trying to move shell scripts from a Unix to NT really
shows how much of a not-Unix it is. This is true even if you already
have something like cygwin set up.
Perl also performs better. Although if you have a shell script
that runs up against this problem it's probably time to rethink
things.
--
Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,
is genuinely new: culture, like science and |||
technology grows by accretion, each new creator / | \
building on the works of those that came before.
Judge Alex Kozinski
US Court of Appeals
9th Circuit
JEDIDIAH
> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>> On 2008-08-29, Damian <nos...@rabid-dog.net> wrote:
>>> Lionel B wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:59:59 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> .....until now.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> You have to read the article to see what a nightmare this guy went
>>>>> through getting Linux installed.
>>>>
>>>> LOL! Reminds me of a couple of years back, I had to reinstall XP on
>>>> a Dell Inspiron, as the OS went titsup due to some DLLHell(tm)
>>>> issues. Now *that* was a freaking nightmare (new hardware detected
>>>> - how nice - drivers not found, please insert CD, drivers still not
>>>> found, please reboot, please reboot again - and again... just one
>>>> more time, thanks, really... ahhhh... new hardware detected.
>>>> Bollocks).
>>>
>>>
>>> Only Two possibilities:
>>>
>>> 1. Illicit copy of XP.
>>> 2. You don't know how to install Windows correctly.
>>>
>>> Which?
>>
>> Why should either one be a problem?
>
> Oh dear God. You're serious, aren't you? Do you use linux or something?
Of course I am serious.
"Blaming the end user" is simply not an acceptable way to treat
problems relating to an operating system specifically targeted at the
clueless.
A cabal of hobbyists should not be able to do better than one of
the most overcapitalized corporations on the planet.
>
>
>>
>> Software shouldn't break just because it isn't properly licensed.
>> Beyond the purely technical problems this poses, there's also the
>> administrative overhead involved.
>>
>> Either way, the software is broken in some way.
>>
>> Windows is supposed to be "the easy OS" "suitable for joe sixpack".
>>
>> The question of whether or not some random end user is "leet"
>> enough to install it all by himself shouldn't even come up.
>
>
--
Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,
is genuinely new: culture, like science and |||
technology grows by accretion, each new creator / | \
building on the works of those that came before.
Judge Alex Kozinski
US Court of Appeals
9th Circuit
Damian
When *MILLIONS* of users have successfully installed, and are running
Windows XP _successfully_ it is very acceptable to blame the luser who is
unable to get it to work. It proves the axiom, 'linux makes you stupid'.
Tom Shelton
Not much work - it's based on the .net framework. You could easily implement
it on linux using mono.
> The main thing required would be
> a multilanguage persistence library; something along the
> lines of Castor, only standardized and implemented in Java,
> C, C++, C#, Python, Ruby, and Tcl.
>
> At worst, it's a complete waste of software.
>
Again comments from someone who has never actually used it.
> There are several things missing in Linux scripting, none
> of which (AFAIK) are addressed in Powershell (and not all
> that easily addressable by any shell, absent a fair amount
> of work). I won't say the following are *necessary*,
> but may be "nice to haves":
>
> - Extension of the file expansion capability to include
> option expansion capability. For example, typing in
> 'command --h' then pressing <TAB> would expand out the
> --h to --help. The shell would have to -- somehow --
> know the command's command structure in order to do
> this properly. A double tab would also work in some
> options to show the keywords available.
>
PowerShell has that. If you say type in:
ps> Get-Command -a<Tab>
That will expand to
ps> Get-Command -ArgumentList
This works because PowerShell commands are objects, with a common interface.
There is a discovery mechanism for parameters. PowerShell v2 is getting a
form of graphical intellisense - aka Visual Studio, as well as it's own mini
gui development environment for script editing and debugging.
> - An overridable, customizable GUI for impromptu forms of
> arbitrary CLI commands (commands for the GUI have
> their own issues). For a simple command that takes two
> files, one might get a 8-widget GUI, neatly laid out:
> two labels, two text fields, two "Browse..." buttons,
> and [OK] and [CANCEL]. For a command such as cp, one
> might have issues, but ideally the GUI would mimic all
> cp functionality (including copying files from multiple
> directories into a single output dir).
>
> * Overridable: the standard functionality would be reasonable
> but the command could override that functionality, providing
> custom forms.
>
> * Customizable: the user could customize the placement,
> coloration, and in some cases shape of the widgets/controls
> in the forms.
>
> (I should note that Mentor Graphics had something like this.)
>
Not sure I would find that useful in a scripting environment... But, ok.
Nothing like that in powershell :)
PowerShell has it's own command Copy-Item. Though, that is aliased to both cp
and copy for cleaner use on the command line. Generally, I don't use the
aliases in scripts though...
--
Tom Shelton
The Ghost In The Machine
<je...@nomad.mishnet>
wrote
on Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:40:21 -0500
<slrngbgk5...@nomad.mishnet>:
> On 2008-08-29, Tim Smith <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> In article <9cVtk.18834$De7....@bignews7.bellsouth.net>,
>> Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
>>> I use bash and Perl quite regularly, and Python less so, but they all
>>> have their sweet spots. I suspect Perl and Python scripts are quite a
>>> bit more portable than bash scripts, but I still like them.
>>
>> Yeah, portability can be a problem in shell scripts. There are many
>> common commands that have different default behavior, and take different
>> arguments on different Unix and Unix-like systems. It can get annoying
>> if you want you shell script to work on Linux, and FreeBSD, and OS X,
>> for instance.
>>
>> Using Perl, and doing everything using standard Perl modules, often gets
>> around this.
>
> The "portability problem" is not so bad if you've been around for
> awhile but perl is nice in this respect. Where Perl comes in really
> handy is if you have a number of Windows boxes in the mix of machines
> you support. Trying to move shell scripts from a Unix to NT really
> shows how much of a not-Unix it is. This is true even if you already
> have something like cygwin set up.
>
> Perl also performs better. Although if you have a shell script
> that runs up against this problem it's probably time to rethink
> things.
>
If I'm not mistaken, Python is also a solution that is
reasonably portable. I'll admit I've not tried it on
Windows, though.
Tcl/Tk also works after a fashion, though in all fairness
most will probably not want to deal with Tcl's weirdness
(and it's pretty darned weird, though simple enough).
However, Tk has a lot of power, so hybrids such as Perl/Tk
have cropped up.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. Because a BSOD is just so 20th century; why not
try our new color changing variant?
JEDIDIAH
> On 2008-08-29, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>> On 2008-08-29, Ezekiel <Ze...@z.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "JEDIDIAH" <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>>> news:slrngbg23...@nomad.mishnet...
>>>> On 2008-08-29, Ezekiel <ze...@zekerules.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "JEDIDIAH" <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
>>>>> news:slrngbe81...@nomad.mishnet...
>>>>>> On 2008-08-28, TomB <tommy.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2008-08-28, Ezekiel wrote:
>>>>> One additional note for you clueless - Windows has been able to burn
>>>>> CD's
>>>>> directly since WinXP. It's available directly through Windows Explorer
>>>>
>>>> Yup. It makes nice coasters.
>>>
>>> Only if the person using it is completely inept.
>>
>> That kinda defeats the whole point of Windows then...
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> without the need for any 3rd party apps. But don't let facts get in the
>>>>> way
>>>>> of your ignorance.
>>>>
>>>> No. I speak from directly observed personal experience.
>>>
>>> Thanks for proving my point about the user being inept. Somehow 100's of
>>> millions of people don't have a problem with burning CD's. After all, the
>>
>> Mebbe they're all using iTunes or Nero.
>>
>
> I'm certainly not. I hate iTunes as an application - wmp burns audio disks
> just fine. For iso's I use iso recorder (which uses the built in windows com
> interface) - though, I usually mount the iso's directly so, I don't usually
> burn them much. And for data cd's, I just do the native windows stuff. DVD's
> I've done with Windows Movie Maker and in vista utlimate they have some dvd
Well, to be honest I was rather shocked at Vista's performance. I really
thought it would be better than that.
[deletia]
--
Nothing today, likely nothing since we tamed fire,
is genuinely new: culture, like science and |||
technology grows by accretion, each new creator / | \
building on the works of those that came before.
Judge Alex Kozinski
US Court of Appeals
9th Circuit
TomB
> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>> "Blaming the end user" is simply not an acceptable way to treat
>> problems relating to an operating system specifically targeted at the
>> clueless.
>
> When *MILLIONS* of users have successfully installed, and are running
> Windows XP _successfully_ it is very acceptable to blame the luser who is
> unable to get it to work. It proves the axiom, 'linux makes you stupid'.
Correction:
When *MILLIONS* of users have successfully bought a system with
Windows XP pre-installed, and are running Windows XP _successfully_
(...)
Now, that's more like it.
--
Attempted murder, now honestly, what is that? Do they give a
Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?
~ Sideshow Bob
JEDIDIAH
People generally do NOT install Windows.
When the they do, the fact that they managed to get through it still
doesn't mean that it's unecessarily a pain in the ass ot deal with.
> Windows XP _successfully_ it is very acceptable to blame the luser who is
> unable to get it to work. It proves the axiom, 'linux makes you stupid'.
Sure. You get very spoiled dealing with an OS that doesn't make
you hunt everywhere for driver disks and gives you a way of easily
seeing what your uninstalled hardware is.
Chris S.
"Linonut" <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote in message
news:lKGtk.18408$XT1....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>* Tim Smith peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> In article <1e44nmlyuiti9$.14wq5kto3th3q$.d...@40tude.net>,
>> "Moshe Goldfarb." <brick_...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> .....until now.
>>>
>>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>>>
>>> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make
>>> the
>>> move to Linux?
>>>
>>> How on earth did this guy even get the job?
>>
>> Don't worry. I'm sure someone will soon find some connection between the
>> publisher of LinuxInsider and Microsoft (or perhaps Apple--they publish
>> AppleInsider, too), and so will demonstrate that this was just a paid
>> hit piece by the enemies of Linux. That's how it always happens.
>>
>> (Queue chrisv asking for proof that this always happens...)
>
> Hint: Putting "Linux" in your corporate name doesn't mean you know
> jack about Linux.
>
> Here, it is obvious! The editor himself practically admits he didn't
> know jack about it.
>
> Hint: Putting "Insider" in your corporate name doesn't mean you really
> are an "insider".
>
> In the meantime, Zeke and Moshe get to use it as FUD fodder.
>
> I wonder why this story is no longer available:
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/43067.html
http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/7biPwnfUcng6bW/Where-the-Buck-Stops.xhtml
>
> Anyway, maybe LinuxInsider is more on-topic these days.
>
> --
> It has been said [by Anatole France], "it is not by amusing oneself
> that one learns," and, in reply: "it is *____ only* by amusing oneself
> that
> one can learn."
> -- Edward Kasner and James R. Newman
Linonut
> I started fooling around with Perl many years ago but never liked it. The
> syntax was just too bizzare for me. I like Python much better because it
> produces more readable code. My only complaint against Python would be that
> it relies too much on code indentation.
Indeed, it takes awhile to figure out what you screwed up if you
accidentally shift a block of code.
> Give me the option to use braces ( {} ) to control the scope of if
> statements and loops.
One python fan boi in a book I have claims that Guido did it this way to
avoid arguments and differences over coding style.
Ruby, I think, let's you use braces if you want to.
> I also like the huge library of 3rd party apps for Python that let you
> do anything from simple stuff to control robotics.
Perl has a bunch of libraries, too.
The thing that bugs me about these languages, especially Perl, is the
readability. $' $! $% ...
I'm still basically an old-fashioned well-disciplined C/C++ guy.
--
work, n.:
The blessed respite from screaming kids and
soap operas for which you actually get paid.
Linonut
I wrote a Perl script to do about 95% of the work of reformatting our
old code to new Doxygen-supportive coding conventions. I wrote it using
my primary work OS, Linux.
Then another guy was tasked with upgrading some old code, so I offered
the script, and it worked without issues on Windows.
I still use bash for the automake/debian stuff.
--
Is your job running? You'd better go catch it!
Linonut
> PowerShell is the best windows scripting solution there is right now, IMHO.
^^^^^^^
Ya lost me there.
--
I hope the ``Eurythmics'' practice birth control ...
Hadron
Linonut
> When *MILLIONS* of users have successfully installed, and are running
> Windows XP _successfully_ it is very acceptable to blame the luser who is
> unable to get it to work. It proves the axiom, 'linux makes you stupid'.
Those millions are a tiny percentage of those who rely either on the OEM
or on Linux guys like me to get their Windows installed <grin>.
--
Beware of the Turing Tar-pit in which everything is possible but nothing of
interest is easy.
Ignoramus4791
> * Damian peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> When *MILLIONS* of users have successfully installed, and are running
>> Windows XP _successfully_ it is very acceptable to blame the luser who is
>> unable to get it to work. It proves the axiom, 'linux makes you stupid'.
>
> Those millions are a tiny percentage of those who rely either on the OEM
> or on Linux guys like me to get their Windows installed <grin>.
>
I rarely see a windows computer where Windows was installed by the
user.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/
DFS
> I rarely see a windows computer where Windows was installed by the
> user.
Left side of Linux idiots' mouths: "Windows has to be reinstalled every 6
months"
Right side of Linux idiots' mouths: "Users rarely reinstall Windows"
Peter Köhlmann
What is so strange about that, "true linux advocate" Hadron Quark?
I *write* all the code with linux tools. I simply fire either a virtual
machine or a XP machine up to do the compile part. Then I test on that
virtual machine or the XP one.
So at least 80% of the actual programming time for windows apps is done on a
linux machine.
And now bugger off, Snot Glasser is in need to somehow get out of his EXIF
debacle
--
You are a shining example for the advances in artificial stupidity
DFS
LMAO!
Sounds like this "Linux advocate" guy Bob Sutor (IBM Vice President, Open
Source
and Standards) who just this year (late June 08) finally made the huge leap
of faith plunge into Linux crapware - after years of advocating it.
http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=2378
Go Linux! One new user at a time - and just as quickly 0.99999 users drop
the slop.
> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make
> the move to Linux?
Hey, he has a lot of balls. Most Linux "advocates" never make the switch.
They talk a big line, though.
Hadron
Because you moron who cares what editor you use and on what platform?
The point is that you have to TEST it on Windows. This means each step
of the way as you develop. You are a Windows user. Or would you like to
tell us how much of your income is derived from selling your closed
source proprietary SW to Linux users? No? Didn't think so.
Moshe Goldfarb.
Good catch!
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Moshe Goldfarb.
> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>> .....until now.
>>
>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>
> LMAO!
>
> Sounds like this "Linux advocate" guy Bob Sutor (IBM Vice President, Open
> Source
> and Standards) who just this year (late June 08) finally made the huge leap
> of faith plunge into Linux crapware - after years of advocating it.
>
> http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=2378
And why hasn't IBM switched it's mobile employees platform to Linux?
Rex dodges that one every time.
It was years ago that the Linux loons announced here in COLA that IBM was
making a huge push towards Linux for it's employees.
AFAIK it has not happened.
>
> Go Linux! One new user at a time - and just as quickly 0.99999 users drop
> the slop.
I've seen it happen many times.
An over excited noob installs Linux and after a day or so of trying to make
it work, he dumps it and goes back to Windows.
The kicker is that Linux seems to really leave a bad impression on these
people and they go out into the world and will tell and re-tell the horror
they experienced trying to make Linux work.
>
>
>
>> It took him over a year working as an editor for LinuxInsider to make
>> the move to Linux?
>
> Hey, he has a lot of balls. Most Linux "advocates" never make the switch.
> They talk a big line, though.
Ain't it the truth.
Hadron
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:49:40 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Moshe Goldfarb. wrote:
>>> .....until now.
>>>
>>> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64306.html
>>
>> LMAO!
>>
>> Sounds like this "Linux advocate" guy Bob Sutor (IBM Vice President, Open
>> Source
>> and Standards) who just this year (late June 08) finally made the huge leap
>> of faith plunge into Linux crapware - after years of advocating it.
>>
>> http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=2378
>
>
> And why hasn't IBM switched it's mobile employees platform to Linux?
> Rex dodges that one every time.
>
> It was years ago that the Linux loons announced here in COLA that IBM was
> making a huge push towards Linux for it's employees.
>
> AFAIK it has not happened.
>>
>
>> Go Linux! One new user at a time - and just as quickly 0.99999 users drop
>> the slop.
>
> I've seen it happen many times.
> An over excited noob installs Linux and after a day or so of trying to make
> it work, he dumps it and goes back to Windows.
>
> The kicker is that Linux seems to really leave a bad impression on these
> people and they go out into the world and will tell and re-tell the horror
> they experienced trying to make Linux work.
Flash : poor to say the least. Debian answer? Ask them to open their
source
Video : garbage. Debian answer - ask them to open their source.
Result? Pain in the arse to get it working properly as a multimedia
desktop.
Moshe Goldfarb.
That's the problem with Linux in general, it just requires far too much
work on the part of the person running it to make it worth while.
Video.
Audio.
Multimedia in general is a nightmare.
Sure if you happen to pick or carefully choose the correct hardware it gets
easier or if you buy a Linux pre-load it *should* all work but why limit
your choices?
I can go to Bestbuy and throw a dart at the hardware section and unless I
happen to hit a piece of Mac only hardware, it will work with Windows.
Linux?
Good luck.
relic
> On 2008-08-30, Linonut <lin...@bollsouth.nut> wrote:
>> * Damian peremptorily fired off this memo:
>>
>>> When *MILLIONS* of users have successfully installed, and are
>>> running Windows XP _successfully_ it is very acceptable to blame
>>> the luser who is unable to get it to work. It proves the axiom,
>>> 'linux makes you stupid'.
>>
>> Those millions are a tiny percentage of those who rely either on the
>> OEM or on Linux guys like me to get their Windows installed <grin>.
>>
>
> I rarely see a windows computer where Windows was installed by the
> user.
I've never seen one that wasn't. (My 11 year old Grandson can do it; he's
been doing it for several years.) Since there are Millions, and Millions of
Windows PCs, Millions are user installed and Millions aren't.
Linonut
Not at all. For example, we use the Qt framework and primarily standard
C/C++ code.
I can also do most of the work in my favorite environment, and work out
most of the actual coding kinks, in Linux.
One can even create the Visual Studio "solution" and "vcproj" files in
Linux (though there are some issues that can arise), and then build the
stuff in Windows, fixing any minor differences in "standard" C/C++ that
crop up.
Very little thinking involves being a "Windows user".
The biggest time-sinks we have that involve Windows-specific stuff are
the database and the NT service support, but even there we've managed to
make a surprisingly uniform code interface across platforms.
It's actually a good thing, I think, to get stuff working in Windows.
One compiler will often find issues that the other doesn't.
In the end, you get code that works and acts the same on both systems,
and the user is none-the-wiser.
> Or would you like to
> tell us how much of your income is derived from selling your closed
> source proprietary SW to Linux users? No? Didn't think so.
Why would that matter? Lot's of businesses are trying to "monetize"
open-source software. In fact, some people want to leverage
open-source.
But perhaps Peter can elucidate about the closed-source part. Our
customer gets, and reviews, all our code anyway.
(I've actually gotten calls from a reviewer regarding certain humorous
comments I've placed in the code.)
--
Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of nature, because
God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software
engineer.
-- Fred Brooks
Linonut
Of course they don't. They get guys like /us/ to do it for them.
--
Behind all the political rhetoric being hurled at us from abroad, we are
bringing home one unassailable fact -- [terrorism is] a crime by any civilized
standard, committed against innocent people, away from the scene of political
conflict, and must be dealt with as a crime. . . .
[I]n our recognition of the nature of terrorism as a crime lies our best hope
of dealing with it. . . .
[L]et us use the tools that we have. Let us invoke the cooperation we have
the right to expect around the world, and with that cooperation let us shrink
the dark and dank areas of sanctuary until these cowardly marauders are held
to answer as criminals in an open and public trial for the crimes they have
committed, and receive the punishment they so richly deserve.
-- William H. Webster, Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation, 15 Oct 1985
Linonut
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:29:21 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Ignoramus4791 wrote:
>>
>>> I rarely see a windows computer where Windows was installed by the
>>> user.
>>
>> Left side of Linux idiots' mouths: "Windows has to be reinstalled every 6
>> months"
>> Right side of Linux idiots' mouths: "Users rarely reinstall Windows"
>
> Good catch!
Speaking of catches, I'm throwing this flat one back in the water
<grin>.
--
A committee takes root and grows, it flowers, wilts and dies, scattering the
seed from which other committees will bloom.
-- Parkinson
Linonut
>>
>> The kicker is that Linux seems to really leave a bad impression on these
>> people and they go out into the world and will tell and re-tell the horror
>> they experienced trying to make Linux work.
>
> Flash : poor to say the least. Debian answer? Ask them to open their
> source
I agree here.
I had Iceweasel/Firefox just up and disappearing all too often.
I finally uninstalled all the Debian Gnash/SWF/plugins stuff, and just
installed Flash 10 from Adobe. This has cleared up much of the problem.
(The example that tipped me over the edge was the Strunz & Farah web
site, but now it works just fine.)
I don't blame GNU, though, I blame Adobe.
> Video : garbage. Debian answer - ask them to open their source.
This, I don't agree on. I've found video support in Linux to be better
than in Windows, and fairly painless.
In some rare circumstances, I've had troubles (e.g. scrambled video) in
mplayer. The fix? Either specify/force a difference codec, or use VLC.
> Result? Pain in the arse to get it working properly as a multimedia
> desktop.
I've found it to be reasonable on the desktop, comparable to NT.
It's worse in the browser, though.
And that Silverlight bullshit! Arrrgh.
--
A guy has to get fresh once in a while so a girl doesn't lose her confidence.