[News] Microsoft: Windows Piracy Checks Have Real 'Benefits'
Roy Schestowitz
,----[ Quote ]
| Counterfeiters aren't Microsoft's only opponents in its effort to
| combat piracy: Some of its customers are against it, too.
|
| [...]
|
| Most of their criticism is directed at the way Microsoft's antipiracy
| technology, Windows Genuine Advantage, interacts with a PC. Recently,
| the software maker was lambasted over its WGA Notifications tool, which
| it pushes out as a "high priority" update alongside security fixes. There
| have also been complaints about the tool collecting information from PCs
| and causing system troubles.
|
| [...]
|
| The hacks and workarounds are a sign of the indignation among some
| Microsoft users, including some CNET News.com readers.
|
| [...]
|
| In response to the criticism, Microsoft maintains that there is a real
| benefit in validating a copy of Windows.
`----
Sinister Midget
> Fighting Microsoft's piracy check
>
> ,----[ Quote ]
>| Counterfeiters aren't Microsoft's only opponents in its effort to
>| combat piracy: Some of its customers are against it, too.
>| In response to the criticism, Microsoft maintains that there is a real
>| benefit in validating a copy of Windows.
Despite everything else, they still maintain their sense of humor.
--
My girlfriend always laughs during sex. No matter what she's
reading.
Roy Schestowitz
> On 2006-06-21, Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> posted
> something concerning:
>> Fighting Microsoft's piracy check
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>| Counterfeiters aren't Microsoft's only opponents in its effort to
>>| combat piracy: Some of its customers are against it, too.
>
>>| In response to the criticism, Microsoft maintains that there is a real
>>| benefit in validating a copy of Windows.
>
> Despite everything else, they still maintain their sense of humor.
The genuine advantage is theirs. The update is critical _to them_.
--
Roy S. Schestowitz | Billigator: eats your filesystem alive
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux Ś PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
2:25pm up 54 days 19:39, 12 users, load average: 0.00, 0.07, 0.19
http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms
The Ghost In The Machine
<newsg...@schestowitz.com>
wrote
on Wed, 21 Jun 2006 06:34:17 +0100
<1376586.9...@schestowitz.com>:
There are benefits (to Microsoft) in validating Windows copies:
[1] Ensuring that Microsoft gets its cut.
[2] See #1.
[3] Ensuring that Microsoft Customer Support only deals
with those who are valid Windows users.
[4] See #3.
[5] See #1 and #3.
Personally, I'm not quite sure what to make of it, as
I don't know precisely how Windows "validates Windows
copies"; all the schemes I can think of require sending
encrypted messages back to a key verifier (or, as one wag
put it, "the mothership"). However, this key verifier
could be distributed, with some care, similar to download
systems at sourceforge.net or other such websites.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh your hardware. Trust us.
Roy Culley
<ngsnm3-...@clark.harry.net>,
Sinister Midget <phydeaux@manly_mail.net> writes:
> On 2006-06-21, Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> posted something concerning:
>> Fighting Microsoft's piracy check
>>
>> ,----[ Quote ]
>>| Counterfeiters aren't Microsoft's only opponents in its effort to
>>| combat piracy: Some of its customers are against it, too.
>
>>| In response to the criticism, Microsoft maintains that there is a
>>| real benefit in validating a copy of Windows.
>
> Despite everything else, they still maintain their sense of humor.
I think they were laughing all the way to the bank until, as most
things of this nature that MS do, it backfires on them. Calling it
Windows Genuine Advantage is just the icing on the cake. Even Erik
could have thought up a better name than that. Timmy ain't quite up to
it yet. :-)
Sinister Midget
I thought it hilarious that they'd try to pawn off to customers the
notion that being screwed is an advantage. Or that there's some benefit
in having to defend yourself against being called a criminal without
any evidence to support the accusation.
--
Start every day with a smile and get it over with.
-- W.C. Fields
nt2000...@hotmail.com
> On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:29:38 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
> <newsg...@schestowitz.com> wrote:
> >The genuine advantage is theirs. The update is critical _to them_.
>
> you to reboot your computer. So I've got my legit copy of XP here, and
> I have to reboot it every day because Microsoft is trying to fight
> pirates in China.
***
Wrong! WGA notification, up to this moment (28th June), has not come to
China.
Simplified Chinese Windows XP users don't get this update.
Secondly, 90% of Windows XP users in China are using pirated XP.
The version must be Windows XP Professional SP2 Volume License Edition.
This is the XP used by large companies and no activiation is required.
Go to www.yahoo.com.cn (Yahoo China)
search keyword "Windows XP" and you get hundreds of website where you
can download it from.
The WGA is quite useless to Chinese users.
#1 Install Volume License XP and no activiation is needed. Regarding
add-on and Windows Update, in case validation failed, change CD-KEY to
an updated version that you can find in numerous well-known Chinese
forum OR simply install a crack patch that widely available.
or
#2 Change PC BIOS (DIY PC) to a brand PC BIOS (say HP PC BIOS), then
install branded OEM XP (say HP Windows XP), works perfectly !! The
pirated XP disc of this kind of branded XP should with that little tool
that help you to change BIOS
Either way, you get a perfect working Windows XP that has no difference
from a geunie Windows.
If you ask a chinese user, why don't you get an original Windows XP?
he probably answer, "what's the difference between a pirated xp and an
original xp other than price?"
Chinese cosumers willing to spend lots of money on high-tech hardware
such as the latest Nokia cell phone but never ever want to pay for a
Windows. (Note: Nokia cell phones in China has a price 20% higher than
in US)
Microsoft has to do something in China, to make people aware that,
there ARE differences between pirated windows and original windows
DFS
> Microsoft has to do something in China, to make people aware that,
> there ARE differences between pirated windows and original windows
There is a big difference: one is stolen and one isn't.
Jim
define stolen: depriving someone of something (the same thing) which one
has taken, without consent.
Ergo, nothing has been "stolen".
The worst that has happened is that a potential Linux user has slipped
through the net.
Come on, Microsoft, if you're going to tackle "piracy"*, just deactivate
the duplicate fucking keys and be done with it. What's going to happen
then? Those users have three choices: Get a license, get Linux, or buy a
Mac.
It's that fucking simple.
But Microsoft don't want to do that because they're too afraid of #2
happening. They want to maintain the lock-in. So, they're just going to
give the illusion that they're actually doing something about this "piracy".
*ARR!
--
When all else fails...
Use a hammer.
Some people are like Slinkies
They serve no particular purpose
But they bring a smile to your face
When you push them down the stairs.
Mark Kent
Jim <ja...@the-computer-shop.co.uk> espoused:
> DFS wrote:
>> nt2000...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Microsoft has to do something in China, to make people aware that,
>>>there ARE differences between pirated windows and original windows
>>
>>
>> There is a big difference: one is stolen and one isn't.
>>
>>
>>
>
> define stolen: depriving someone of something (the same thing) which one
> has taken, without consent.
>
> Ergo, nothing has been "stolen".
>
> The worst that has happened is that a potential Linux user has slipped
> through the net.
>
> Come on, Microsoft, if you're going to tackle "piracy"*, just deactivate
> the duplicate fucking keys and be done with it. What's going to happen
> then? Those users have three choices: Get a license, get Linux, or buy a
> Mac.
>
> It's that fucking simple.
>
> But Microsoft don't want to do that because they're too afraid of #2
> happening. They want to maintain the lock-in. So, they're just going to
> give the illusion that they're actually doing something about this "piracy".
>
> *ARR!
>
Quite - it's not piracy, it's copyright violation. Piracy is a
particularly nasty crime, which is presently on the rise in the
far-east again. It usually involves people being injured, certainly
very frightened, and sometimes they're killed. It almost invariably
involves weapons, and huge loss of real goods.
Copyright violation is the breaking of copyright law by making a copy of
something which one does not have the right to. Whilst it's not nice to
do so, it's certainly not close to piracy in terms of seriousness or
criminality, and the two should not be confused.
The other term which is incorrectly bandied around here is "copyright
theft", which is also wrong. You can't steal copyright. It's just that
little bit too abstract.
These are phrases dreamt up by marketing types to demonise the problems
well beyond their real levels of seriousness, to make them sound
sexy/exciting/dangerous in the press, so that they get airtime. I don't
think the BBC would have all that much to say about copyright theft, but
call it piracy, and it gets the headlines.
Having said all that, I do not, in any way, condone copyright theft, I
just think it's important that it's not confused with other things.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
Kiss a non-smoker; taste the difference.
The Ghost In The Machine
<ja...@the-computer-shop.co.uk>
wrote
on Wed, 28 Jun 2006 07:15:11 GMT
<30qog.79614$rC1....@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>:
> DFS wrote:
>> nt2000...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Microsoft has to do something in China, to make people aware that,
>>>there ARE differences between pirated windows and original windows
>>
>>
>> There is a big difference: one is stolen and one isn't.
>>
>>
>>
>
> define stolen: depriving someone of something (the same thing) which one
> has taken, without consent.
>
> Ergo, nothing has been "stolen".
Perhaps it is stolen because Microsoft has deemed it to be stolen.
This way lies madness, and it may already be happening.
...
Customer: "I upgraded my computer system and now Windows doesn't work!"
Microsoft: "You transferred license to a new system. Sorry. You'll
have to buy a whole new Windows."
Customer: *splutters* "WHAT?? All I did was replace the power supply,
the motherboard, the video card, and the network card!"
Microsoft: "Thank you for choosing Microsoft."
...
A variant of this conversation appear to have bitten at least one
person on this newsgroup, though at this point I forget whom.
(Granted, the customer has replaced a good chunk of the innards
in this scenario, but the disks are the same.)
>
> The worst that has happened is that a potential Linux user has slipped
> through the net.
>
> Come on, Microsoft, if you're going to tackle "piracy"*, just deactivate
> the duplicate fucking keys and be done with it. What's going to happen
> then? Those users have three choices: Get a license, get Linux, or buy a
> Mac.
>
> It's that fucking simple.
>
> But Microsoft don't want to do that because they're too afraid of #2
> happening. They want to maintain the lock-in. So, they're just going to
> give the illusion that they're actually doing something about this "piracy".
>
> *ARR!
>
Information is almost infinitely duplicable, once the
initial corruption/conversion/degradation of quality
because of analog-to-digital (or idea-to-software, for
that matter) has been taken.
Jim
My point is, and Microsoft have publicly admitted said behaviour, many
times, that they allow "piracy" to continue for the time being, with a
view to "making them pay" in the future (Bill Gates' words!). I bring up
the analogy of the schoolyard drug dealer (again), where he plies the
kids with samples, then starts charging once he's got a viable client
base. The kids have a choice: go cold turkey or start stealing from
Mom's purse or go knock over a few old ladies outside the post office.
Here's a headline I wouldn't be too surprised to see when Vista is
Microsoft's flagship Gold product:
"Grandma turned over for Windows license"
Go figure.
Larry Qualig
I think your analogy is backwards. It's not companies that are
employing "drug dealer tactics" by giving away free samples. The
reality is that drug dealers are using the exact same proven tactics
that companies have used for years.
There are countless numbers of companies that use the "free sample"
method to acquire new customers. Sports Illustrated will give you a
free 1-month subscription with the intention that you'll become a
paying customer in the future. Same with the Boston Globe and the Wall
Street Journal. Try the WSJ.com web site... register and you'll get a
free 30 day trial subscription to the website.
Do a quick Google search for "free sample" and you'll see tea,
Christian Science Monitor newspaper, Trojan Condoms, Dove soap,
tampons, Lactaid, Jello and Aquafresh toothpaste being given away as a
free sample.
The free-sample tactic of getting customers is nothing new. Again, it's
not that companies are acting as drug dealers. It's the drug dealers
that are using proven marketing methods.
Jim
oh, ok.
I'm off to go knock someone over for my jello fix.
:)
nt2000...@hotmail.com
nt2000...@hotmail.com 写道：
> Chinese cosumers willing to spend lots of money on high-tech hardware
> such as the latest Nokia cell phone but never ever want to pay for a
> Windows. (Note: Nokia cell phones in China has a price 20% higher than
> in US)
****
When Microsoft launched their business in China back in 1994, they
tried to sell Windows 95 for around RMB 2000 (equal to 1 to 2 months
salary of a technician) and Office95 for RMB 7000. The result was,
pirated copies flooding the whole country. Microsoft didn't really care
at that time. When Bill Gate came to China, in an interview, he said
"We want them (Chinese) to steal our product, to get addicted and we
will see how to collect the money in 10 years.." This interview leaded
to the public with a hostile attitude against Microsoft. Now 12 years
past, Microsoft seems unable to collect money from Chinese customers.
Chinese courts always favor local companies, every lawsuit Microsoft
filed, Microsoft only get around 1/50 what they asked for.
Microsoft already admit that Chinese piracy is too difficult to handle
and WGA doesn't help at all.
In 2001, there were around 20 software shops in city of ShenZhen
selling geunie Microsoft Windows, now only 3 to 4 left. Shop owners
told me that they sell about 3 copies of Windows XP to home customers
each month. On the other hands, there are more than 1000 mobile phone
shops in Shenzhen selling Nokia phones. I always see people buying
mobile phone anytime.
The worst is the OEM market. HP, IBM, Acer and many local branded PC
manufacturers don't preinstall Windows in their products marketed for
China (except high-end models). That means, these PC/laptops will have
pirated Windows installed by retailers.
Back to WGA, the victims of WGA are those customers in low piracy
countries such as US, UK, Australia. They are innocent and have no idea
what happens. The Chinese users, however, know where to get crack and
there are unlimited crack resources available on the Internet.
kevin bailey
> Either way, you get a perfect working Windows XP that has no difference
> from a geunie Windows.
>
> If you ask a chinese user, why don't you get an original Windows XP?
> he probably answer, "what's the difference between a pirated xp and an
> original xp other than price?"
other than the pirate copy being a huge trojan for all sorts of malware.
Mark Kent
Wow - that a troll could say such a thing is truly incredible!
Larry Qualig
So I'll assume that you think there is a difference between the two. If
so, do elaborate what the difference is because this is a very common
method of getting future customers.
(Smiley noted)