Availability of the IMSAI II
rober...@gmail.com
and sent off a deposit several years ago. I even offered to review it
in Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar Ink (I'm a friend of Steve's and formerly
lived in Hartford). I understand the problems of a task like
re-inventing the IMSAI and think that I have been more than patient.
His website is still active, he has a copyright date of 2007 on it,
and it appears that you can still order not only an IMSAI II but other
items as well.
Unfortunately I have emailed him several times over the past 12-18
months and haven't had the courtesy of a response. I know he's there
- he posts here in comp.os.cpm - but from him to me: nada, zip, zilch,
nothing.
Is there anyone else here who was as retrospectively foolish as I as
to trust him with a deposit? It doesn't speak much for his ethics if
he advertises and takes orders for non-existent products (who was that
guy and his company that advertised in Kilobaud, among others, back in
the '70's with full page ads for non-existent products? Remember
that?). And his customer service skills are non-existent if he just
ignores politely worded inqueries re: progress on the product.
So, am I the only one still waiting for an IMSAI II?
Bob Stek
Saver of Lost Sols
Rolf Harrmann
schrieb:
>Unfortunately I have emailed him several times over the past 12-18
>months and haven't had the courtesy of a response.
I cannot believe you Thomas Fischer did not announce myself with you.
Thomas Fischer have E-Mail, Mailing Address and Telephone.
I buy a Book from Todd.
Rolf
rober...@gmail.com
<rolf-junk...@t-online.de> wrote:
>Hello Robert,
>
>I cannot believe you Thomas Fischer did not announce myself with you.
>Thomas Fischer have E-Mail, Mailing Address and Telephone.
>I buy a Book from Todd.
>
>Rolf
If you check postings here on 9-22-07 you will see that I requested
politely and privately that he contact me - he didn't, nor did he
respond to the private email I sent him the same day at the address he
uses here (t...@imsai.net).
Since my original posting I have had 2 individuals email me directly
with similar tales: they sent in money, followed up with emails, then
he just ignored them. (One individual did not explicitly or
implicitly give me permission to quote or identify him, but the other
individual posted publically in the classiccmp mail list
(http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech ) where I posted
the same question.
The question remains: how many others pre-ordered and paid in part or
in full for an IMSAI II they have yet to receive? Can't run CP/M on a
phantom machine (just to keep somewhat on topic).
Barry Watzman
You mean the "World Power Systems" scam (Perry Pollock and his wife
Korrine)?
I don't think Todd Fischer is in the same league, but I'm shocked that
he won't respond to you and give you a refund of your deposit.
rober...@gmail.com
<Watzma...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
>Re: "who was that guy and his company that advertised in Kilobaud, among
>others, back in the '70's with full page ads for non-existent products?"
>
>You mean the "World Power Systems" scam (Perry Pollock and his wife
>Korrine)?
>
>I don't think Todd Fischer is in the same league, but I'm shocked that
>he won't respond to you and give you a refund of your deposit.
>
Yes, that's it! Thanks, Barry. (I knew it was "world"-something but
my searches kept coming up with WorldCom).
I do agree about Todd. I honestly believe that he intended to offer
an IMSAI II and that he did make efforts to produce one (never assume
malice when incompetence suffices). But I now know of at least two
other individuals (one of whom paid full price in advance) who were
treated as I was - being told shipment would be Real Soon Now, then
excuses, then promising a refund, and finally being ignored.
I can understand failure - been there, done that. Hell, even an
apology that he spent my money on the project and all he could offer
was a partial refund or some NOS or his documentation reprint or bits
and pieces of whatever he did produce, would be a step in the right
direction. What irritates the hell out of me is that his website is
current and that he continues to offer IMSAI II's as if they were
going to be available Real Soon Now.
I do have a nice 64180 SBC hard drive system running ZCPR3 that I got
from Steve Ciarcia. But I really wanted a fast new IMSAI that I could
put my Morrow controller in so I could access hard and soft-sectored
5.25" disks as well as 8" formats and easily port them over to my PC.
I guess that I can still do that with my Horizon, and maybe Andy
Lynch's Catweasel project will get me there too.
Saver of Lost Sols,
Bob Stek
Rolf Harrmann
schrieb:
>If you check postings here on 9-22-07 you will see that I requested
>politely and privately that he contact me - he didn't, nor did he
>respond to the private email I sent him the same day at the address he
>uses here (t...@imsai.net).
If the IMSAI II me would have been not too expensive I the IMSAI II
would have already bought.
You wrote Todd called by telephone or by letter.
To E-Mails be lost also or as Spam characterized.
Dave Griffith does not have also a E-Mail address with my E-Mails to
arrive. I had gotten however nevertheless contact to Dave.
Rolf
Guy Macon
rober...@gmail.com wrote:
>But I now know of at least two other individuals (one of
>whom paid full price in advance) who were treated as I
>was - being told shipment would be Real Soon Now, then
>excuses, then promising a refund, and finally being ignored.
I have a better deal for you. Send me your deposits and I
will keep the cash and ignore your emails *without* any
budensome filling out of order forms or promises of delivery.
:)
--
Guy Macon
<http://www.guymacon.com/>
rober...@gmail.com
<http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>I have a better deal for you. Send me your deposits and I
>will keep the cash and ignore your emails *without* any
>budensome filling out of order forms or promises of delivery.
>
>:)
If you can throw in a bonus offer in which I send you more money for
over-priced non-existent peripherals, you got yourself a deal! ;-)
BTW make that four individuals (2 of whom paid in full) in less than
24 hours. Hey, maybe we can have a class-action lawsuit here! Sign
up now!
Seriously, it is a shame (and perhaps even a personal tradgedy for all
I know) that an individual who played a prominent role in the
development of the microcomputer industry should (choose one or more:
<let down, take advantage of>) those individuals who put their trust
in him to bring back some of those 'glory days.'
Dave Griffith
> Seriously, it is a shame (and perhaps even a personal tradgedy for all
> I know) that an individual who played a prominent role in the
> development of the microcomputer industry should (choose one or more:
> <let down, take advantage of>) those individuals who put their trust
> in him to bring back some of those 'glory days.'
Yesterday I spoke to Todd on the telephone. He was cordial and candid
about exactly what's going on. As someone else suggested, it's quite
clear that he's an engineer and a bit rusty on business. He told me
that you hadn't contacted him prior to making your post. Anyhow, Todd
is in the process of getting funding to finish the project. I also let
him know that I'll pass word to some oldtimers to see if they'd be
interested in helping him.
--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csbuak.edu <-- Switch the 'b' and 'u'
Barry Watzman
has himself backed into a corner and cannot refund the deposits ... he
could be, for example, on the verge of bankruptcy himself.
rober...@gmail.com
Griffith) wrote:
>Yesterday I spoke to Todd on the telephone. He was cordial and candid
>about exactly what's going on. As someone else suggested, it's quite
>clear that he's an engineer and a bit rusty on business. HE TOLD ME
>THAT YOU HADN'T CONTACTED HIM PRIOR TO MAKING YOUR POST. [my emphasis]
The last response I had from Todd was May 6, 2006, when, in part, he
said "I will contact you later in the week with a more substantial
answer." There was no follow up a week later or any time since. I
have my email to him dated May 3, 2007 just asking for an update and
nothing more - no response. I have other emails to him prior to May
6, 2006 and between May 2006 and May 2007, but almost all of that mail
is archived and not instantly available.
More recently on 9/14 I sent him via email:
"I see that you still post to comp.os.cpm so you are apparently alive
and well (or at least alive).
Over the past year I have sent you several emails requesting the
status of the IMSAI Series II. You seem to be taking orders as your
website indicates. But I sent in a deposit about 3-4 years ago and
haven't heard anything from you in in about 2 years.
What's going on?"
Nothing offensive here IMHO.
On 9/22 I asked via a private email:
"I see that you have no problem flaming others regarding top posting,
and I would prefer not to engage in public arguments. But your
refusal to respond to me with information, a full or partial refund,
or even a courteous "sorry but things fell through and you have lost
your deposit with lots of other people" seems to leave me with no
choice but to take my situation public in comp.os.cpm (at the very
least)."
Definitely stronger, with both an implied threat to go public but also
some 'outs' he could take to get me off his back.
On the same day, 9/22, in this newsgroup I posted "Attn: Thomas 'Todd'
Fischer" and requested that he check his email and respond to me to
directly. Nothing threatening there in my first public post to him. He
posted on another topic the next day so I doubt that he missed the
post or my emails. But still no response.
I copied him directly on the posting I made on Oct. 1, hoping to get
at least a spirited defense, a verbal riposte, an abject apology, or
something. Still no response.
Since I paid him $335 through PayPal on 9/2/02, I used PayPal today to
"request" funds from him for a refund, giving him a full week to
respond. I received an answer almost immediately via PayPal:
Fischer-Freitas Company (t...@imsai.net) cancelled the following Money
Request:
-----------------------------------
Money Request Details
-----------------------------------
Amount: $335.00 USD
You can draw your own conclusions. But for my money (so to speak),
the lack of communication and just plain courtesy to folks willing to
help him fund the development of an IMSAI II over a five plus year
period puts him ever closer to crossing the line from "rusty on
business" to fraudulent.
I really don't want to pursue this any further on comp.os.cpm - this
is my last posting on the subject. I've said my piece, have been
contacted by 4 others with the same story (which answered my original
question), and will go back to lurking and enjoying CP/M and related
discussions.
Bob Stek
Saver of Lost Sols
PS - email headers available for doubters and obsessive-compulsives!
Tom Lake
<rober...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:r226g35qnj7te6pbn...@4ax.com...
It's a shame, too. Just about the only source of IMSAI equipment and it's
not reliable. He could have had a decent business going if he'd been
able to get the equipment running and parts in sufficient quantity. But
above all, if he'd been honest and forthright in his dealings. If I'd paid
him for a pre-order, I could put up with him not being able to deliver the
computers and even not being able to pay me back! The only thing I'd
expect is that he'd let me know what was going on and be open about
his troubles. I started posting alarms here a couple years ago but no
one would listen. I was desperate to get an S-100 machine and Fischer
just kept telling me, "It'll be ready soon." At least www.AltairKit.com
seems like
a reliable site. Are you listening, Grant? You're our only hope!
Don't let us down! 8^)
Tom Lake
MdntTrain
As with the original IMSAI, it's likely deposits were taken (and
needed) here to help fund development.
I think it takes a ton of money to do what Fischer is attempting to
do. It's also catch-22... money is needed to make prototypes in order
to entice orders in order to get more money to make more progress.
I imagine that TRF needs enough people to have faith in him and to
want his end products.. for the project to succeed. If he loses that
faith, then he's left hanging and unable to deliver products or
refunds or anything else.
I'm willing to bet that TRF has spent the deposits received honestly
on developing the products, and he will deliver them if it is at all
possible to do so. I myself have received IMSAI II parts from him in
order to complete my IMSAI. He IS at work...
I think those who have made deposits should reclassify themselves more
as investors than as mail-order customers. You've invested in this
project succeeding.. the fruits of which all the investors will get
the toys they wanted. But if not enough people invest, the project
and investments go bust.
IMHO, the project itself is too ambitious. If it had been just to
recreate the case, classic CPA, and motherboard.. to allow us to stick
our S-100 cards in ... that would have been well enough as a start.
That's all I wanted... but I wanted things more quickly so I just
obtained a real case and CPA... with TRF providing me a motherboard.
But the project itself as it stands is very complex stuff... USB front
panels, snazzy CPUs, Super I/O controller.. all this stuff takes a
huge amount of time to develop, debug, and complete... and who really
has time to get into it THAT much? Specs look cool on paper.. but in
reality, crazy if you ask me.. and I don't think any of it is really
necessary. I didn't want modern componentry and SMD boards... I
just wanted a classic IMSAI with like-new reliability. I'm perfectly
happy with a 2mhz 8080 or Z80. All this, easy enough with a new mobo
and rebuilding the powersupply.
My meant-to-be-helpful advice to TRF: scale down back to basics.. only
do what you can deliver well.. and worry about the crazy stuff if/when
there's a demand for it and $ is available to develop.. ONE ITEM AT A
TIME.
There's a reason Grant is already delivering Altair kits -- because he
didn't shoot for the stars... just for the past.
~ J
Grant Stockly
> seems like
> a reliable site. Are you listening, Grant? You're our only hope!
> Don't let us down! 8^)
~23 are out there so far. I'm ordering 20 more cases Monday. I spent
8800 case money on my Kenbak and 680 project. I didn't intend on
having such a large time between 8800 runs!
What I'm doing is a little different than Todd since I'm not inventing
anything new. It still did take me a lot of time and hard work to do
all of the engineering. Now that the engineering is done I hope to
break even. ; )
hha...@hartetec.com
> As with the original IMSAI, it's likely deposits were taken (and
> needed) here to help fund development.
>
> I think it takes a ton of money to do what Fischer is attempting to
> do. It's also catch-22... money is needed to make prototypes in order
> to entice orders in order to get more money to make more progress.
>
>
> But the project itself as it stands is very complex stuff... USB front
> panels, snazzy CPUs, Super I/O controller.. all this stuff takes a
> huge amount of time to develop, debug, and complete... and who really
> has time to get into it THAT much? Specs look cool on paper.. but in
> reality, crazy if you ask me.. and I don't think any of it is really
> necessary. I didn't want modern componentry and SMD boards... I
> just wanted a classic IMSAI with like-new reliability. I'm perfectly
> happy with a 2mhz 8080 or Z80. All this, easy enough with a new mobo
> and rebuilding the powersupply.
>
> My meant-to-be-helpful advice to TRF: scale down back to basics.. only
> do what you can deliver well.. and worry about the crazy stuff if/when
> there's a demand for it and $ is available to develop.. ONE ITEM AT A
> TIME.
>
> There's a reason Grant is already delivering Altair kits -- because he
> didn't shoot for the stars... just for the past.
>
> ~ J
I have to agree with these thoughts almost completely; however, I
believe the issues are more buisiness-related rather than technical.
I bought the first AltairKit on eBay for around $1700, which is a
relative bargain compared to what an original 8800 goes for. The same
is not true for IMSAI systems. I've bought
IMSAIs on ebay for as low as $500 and they regularly go for sub-
$1000. Selling a low-volume hand-assembled in USA system like the
IMSAI II for $995 or even $1495 is not feasible. And the IMSAI has
much more expensive (albeit much nicer in my opinion) front panel
switches. IMSAI could be delivering systems based on the IMSAI II
sheetmetal, EXP9 motherboard, and a couple switching supplies like
Grant did for the AltairKit. All that's missing is the front panel,
and the CPU board, which could also be re-produced, just like Grant
did, by x-raying the original PCBs and re-creating the gerber files.
Or, better than the MPU-A or MPU-B, re-create a good Z80 CPU card like
the Cromemco ZPU. But how many people are willing to pay $1700+ for a
system like this, when you can get one on eBay for $1000?
In the "Super I/O Users" thread, Tom Fischer wrote:
"As for the IMSAI Series Two, Howard pulled out last year due to
commitments
and schedules that I have to assume precluded his otherwise brilliant
and
well-thought approaches to making for a modernized S-100 machine. I
haven't
had communication from him since June of last year. This left me with
missing elements and support software to get the promised platform
together.
It was a turn of events that put my plans and promises back a few
steps"
I take issue with the statements above. Since the time in question
above, I have developed the Altair USB Front Panel, the eZ80 Single
Board Computer (www.ez80sbc.com) and ported CP/M 3.0 to it, as well as
writing a USB Device Driver stack for the 8051 on the eZ80sbc. I also
wrote SD memory card drivers for CP/M that allow disk images from SIMH
to be used on the eZ80sbc's memory cards, added support for the USB
front panel into SIMH, and added support for different disk geometries
(including P112, Super-I/O, and ez80sbc FLASH drive support) into
SIMH. I also made the USB Front Panel work with the eZ80, as well as
with Zilog's development environment (ZDS-II.) It works so well, in
fact, that it even surpasses Zilog's own USB Smart Cable, because it
works on Windows Vista, while Zilog's cable does not. I have provided
software distributions as well as a CBIOS source release to developers
who bought the ez80sbc. All of these things are the bulding blocks of
what might have been the IMSAI II. So based on this information, you
can draw your own conclusions about the completeness and accuracy of
Tom's statement above.
I have a working prototype of what I call the ZALTAIR 8800, which I
will show at VCF X the first weekend in November (http://
www.vintage.org/2007/main/exhibit.php). The system is housed in one
of Grant's Altair 8800 chassis, and has a USB front panel which
interfaces to the eZ80SBC. The Front panel provides power on/reset
control of the eZ80 as well as the ATX power supply. You can use the
front panel in conjunction with Zilog's debugger, or standalone, just
like the original Altair. The S-100 interface is not developed yet,
but I will work on it, as time permits, after VCF.
After this is done, maybe I'll make an IMZAI, at that point, it's just
a "skin" change...
Howard
Leor Zolman
> On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:20:06 GMT, dgri...@cs.csbuak.edu (Dave
Geez, I looked at the web site for this project a few years ago and
found myself pining for my long-lost IMSAI (I didn't have space for my
original IMSAI 8080, the one I developed BDS C on, at home, so I gave
it to a friend of mine who I trusted to "take good care of it". A few
years later I learned he'd moved and just left the darn thing sitting
in the basement of the house he sold. Arghhhhh!)
I'm glad I decided to hold off until it was shipping! I guess that,
approaching 50 and having now had the displeasure of getting burned
just a few too many times due to my trusting nature, I've learned to
exercise just a wee bit more caution.
Still, if this thing ever actually becomes a reality, I'd be hot to
buy one. I bet I won't be able to find another instance of the cool
transparent blue plexiglass cover I had on my old IMSAI, though...
-leor
Barry Watzman
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180170761763
It ends in 94 minutes.
Dave Griffith
> Hey, Leor, check this out:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180170761763
> It ends in 94 minutes.
A clear lid? Hmm... now if I can find a local shop that does stuff with
plexiglass, I can get one of my own.
craigl
reality. I've talked with him in the past and have ordered several things
from him including IMSAI-branded diskette cabinets, replacement covers for
the original IMSAI, etc - all with no problem. When I first saw the
preorder stuff on the IMSAI II I was tempted, but since I already had two
working originals and was not actively playing with them every day, I
decided to pass. I can easily see how Todd might have become overly
ethusiastic about getting an IMSAI II out the door and with advancing age,
all the problems surrounding getting boards engineered or whatever the
holdups may be, could have simply overwhelmed him. I don't have any skin
in this game, but if I had put money down, I would also wish for some type
of reply. The fact that it hasn't been forthccoming suggests problems
beyond Todd's control - either illness or financial. At this point Todd
might even appreciate a third party stepping in to assist with
straightening it all out, but that complete supposition.
dke...@hotmail.com
> Barry Watzman <WatzmanNOS...@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> > Hey, Leor, check this out:
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180170761763
> > It ends in 94 minutes.
>
> A clear lid? Hmm... now if I can find a local shop that does stuff with
> plexiglass, I can get one of my own.
>
> --
> David Griffith
Hi David
In Northern California, we have stores called TAP plastics. They can
cut and glue such covers.
I'd guess there are other such stores in other locations.
Dwight
Grant Stockly
A fish tank shop should be able to bend it, but I'm not sure how tight
of a radius they can do...
no....@no.uce.bellatlantic.net
wrote:
Also places that specialize in windows, glass and mirrors as in
custom types.
The usual bend radius is not less than thickness of material or
slightly greater (less than 2x). So 1/8" lexan should bend fairly
tight around the top. Most I've seen used 3/16" or 1/4" as it's
stiffer.
For those that do not have the required strip heater three sheets
of the correct size and joun the corners with aluminum angle stock
with the edges cut clean and smoothed. Not quite as fancy but
not hard to do or budget busting. FYI: if you use hinges (piano
hinge is best) the disply cover can be folded flat for travel.
Allison