Howto program a device driver for PIP?

[Peter Heitzer]

Hello folks,
I have a working CP/M system with two 8" disk drives and about 100 disks with programs and
data. In order to archive the disks I am looking for an appropriate method.
I thought of using PIP on the CP/M side with a special device, named "BIN:" for example.
The BIN: device gets a binary or text file and transfers its name and content to the
serial port which is connected to a PC running a programm that reads the data and saves the
file(s).
To archive a disk I would use a command like
PIP BIN:=A:*.*

Does anybody have useful hints (source code) how I can program such a device?



--
Dipl.-Inform(FH) Peter Heitzer, peter....@rz.uni-regensburg.de
HTML mails will be forwarded to /dev/null.

[John Elliott]

Peter Heitzer <peter....@rz.uni-regensburg.de> wrote:
> Hello folks,
> I have a working CP/M system with two 8" disk drives and about 100 disks
> with programs and data. In order to archive the disks I am looking for an
> appropriate method. I thought of using PIP on the CP/M side with a special
> device, named "BIN:" for example.

PIP has a patch area for custom devices called INP: and OUT:.

The OUT: device is implemented by a call to 0106h in PIP.COM, with the
character to write in C.

The INP: device is implemented by a call to 0103h in PIP.COM. The byte
read should be stored at 0109h before returning.

It isn't possible to use wildcards with the PIP OUT: command, so you'd
have to do the files one at a time. In the copy of PIP I examined, the
filename of the source file is at 1E07h, so it would be possible to send
the filename before the first byte being transferred.

--
John Elliott

Thinks: This is what a nice clean life leads to. Hmm, why did I ever lead one?
-- Bluebottle, in the Goon Show

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

On 03/20/2013 18:11, Peter Heitzer wrote:
> Hello folks,
> I have a working CP/M system with two 8" disk drives and about 100 disks with programs and
> data. In order to archive the disks I am looking for an appropriate method.

Not directly an answer to you question, but some other ways to get files
off the CP/M disks are here:
http://www.z80.eu/transfercpm.html

And if you just want to transfer the files, kermit is the "standard"
alternative.

It would be nice if someone already has made a "remote disk drive" off
sorts, that works on another machine, trough a serial connection to the
CP/M machine.
I haven't found one yet.

HTH
--
Torfinn Ingolfsen,
Norway

[ldkr...@gmail.com]

Peter,
The biggest problem is that you are taking a chance every time you boot the CP/M Computer, of having a Floppy drag just enough to partially remove some of the Oxide, and making the Floppy totally useless. Those old 8" Floppys are drying out, and the internal lubrication is probably non-existent. I did this very thing on three of my 5 1/4" Ampro Floppys, a needless mistake on my part.

REF: WARNING - UNAPPROVED METHOD:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1569510&highlight=catweasel

I don't know what CP/M System you have, since you didn't specify the name etc, but I'd recommend that you make an Interface Cable for your 8" Drive, and connect it to an older DOS machine, and read the 8" Floppys direct. Not only will that give you a good BACKUP System Disk, but it will take much less time than trying to transfer all the files over an RS-232 connection. (If you must use RS-232 then I'd look for Modem9xx, Modem7, Mex, Mite, or other readily available Software, that hopefully support your RS-232C Hardware, saving you countless hours writing a Driver for your hardware.)

Dave Dunfield has a good article on making such an interface adapter at:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img54306/cnct.htm

The problem with the 8" Drives is that they require 24 Volts, a voltage that the 5 1/4" and 3 1/2" Drives didn't use.

22Disk, Uniform, Teledisk, ImageDisk, Xenocopy, and Config on the TRS-80 Model 4 are good software programs to copy from varying formats to a destination format. I've used all of these with the exception of ImageDisk.

Another option is to purchase a Catweasel Card and use the utilities written by Tim Mann to image the complete floppy. His software is written to run on Linux, and I used it on Ubuntu 8.04 for several dozen Floppys. I haven't use it on the later Kernels, so that might be a problem. (I'm planning a test in mid April on a later Kernel.)

http://www.icomp.de/home/indexe.htm
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=842
http://www.tim-mann.org/catweasel.html
http://www.soundtracker.org/raw/cwfloppy/index.html

Can you answer these questions?
1. What is the Computer System Name? By knowing the complete name and model
I can look in the 22Disk Floppy Definitions to see if your system is supported. (I have several Euro Definition files for 22Disk that are not in my Registered USA Version.)

2. What is the Model Number of the Computer?

3. Do you have some Spare 8" Floppys? For a Immediate System Disk Backup?

4. Are you planning on continued use of the CP/M System, or copying floppys for use on an Emulator? If you plan on continued use of the CP/M System your time might be better spent on purchase of a USB Drive Emulator for your CP/M System from HxC.

http://torlus.com/floppy/
http://torlus.com/floppy/forum/index.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHx14xLwY78

You have several options.

Let us know if we can be of more help.

Thanks.

Larry

[Peter Heitzer]

I think the most versatile solution would be an interface for SD-cards connected to the parallel
port. On the other hand there are floppy disk emulators available that connect directly to the
floppy interface (http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/ for example). I don�t know
if the emulator supports 8" disks.

[Peter Heitzer]

ldkr...@gmail.com wrote:

>Peter,
>The biggest problem is that you are taking a chance every time you boot the CP/M Computer, of having a Floppy drag just enough to partially remove some of the Oxide, and making the Floppy totally useless. Those old 8" Floppys are drying out, and the internal lubrication is probably non-existent. I did this very thing on three of my 5 1/4" Ampro Floppys, a needless mistake on my part.

>REF: WARNING - UNAPPROVED METHOD:
>http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1569510&highlight=catweasel
>I don't know what CP/M System you have, since you didn't specify the name etc, but I'd recommend that you make an Interface Cable for your 8" Drive, and connect it to an older DOS machine, and read the 8" Floppys direct. Not only will that give you a good BACKUP System Disk, but it will take much less time than trying to transfer all the files over an RS-232 connection. (If you must use RS-232 then I'd look for Modem9xx, Modem7, Mex, Mite, or other readily available Software, that hopefully support your RS-232C Hardware, saving you countless hours writing a Driver for your hardware.)

Connecting the drives to an PC is no option. I just want to save the files for archiving and
perhaps later usage on an emulator

>
>Can you answer these questions?

>3. Do you have some Spare 8" Floppys? For a Immediate System Disk Backup?

Yes, I have at least 10 spare floppies.

>4. Are you planning on continued use of the CP/M System, or copying floppys for use on an Emulator? If you plan on continued use of the CP/M System your time might be better spent on purchase of a USB Drive Emulator for your CP/M System from HxC.

As long as the hardware is functional I will use it although development I do using an emulator.
BTW: You mentioned the drive emulator from HxC. Have you any experience in using it on a
CP/M system?

[ldkr...@gmail.com]

Peter,
I haven't used any of the HxC Floppy Drives yet. I've been keeping an eye on the Development of the "SLIM" Unit. It will be released as a "Cased Unit" later this year, with a Display. There are pictures somewhere on their website, but I haven't found them again.......

This Document states that the current HxC supports 8" Drives:
http://hxc2001.com/download/floppy_drive_emulator/SDCard_HxC_Floppy_Emulator_Product_Brief.pdf

If your decision is to not direct connect a Floppy Drive, then you won't be able to get a bootable image of your 8" Floppy copied, since your system tracks won't be copied via RS-232. That could be a problem down the road.

Since you have a Spare Floppy, I'd suggest making a duplicate of your Boot Floppy immediately, and use the fresh floppy.

Larry

[ldkr...@gmail.com]

Peter,
Here is a URL explaining in detail, the problems, and procedure of using PIP to transfer files (COM & ASCII) via RS-232.

http://www.cirsovius.de/CPM/Projekte/Artikel/DFUE/SerialPIP-en.html

It looks to be possible, but all *.COM files will have to be processed to make them in *.HEX format, so the special command characters are handled properly
and don't terminate the transfer.

Larry

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

On 03/21/2013 04:20, ldkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Peter, The biggest problem is that you are taking a chance every time
> you boot the CP/M Computer, of having a Floppy drag just enough to
> partially remove some of the Oxide, and making the Floppy totally
> useless. Those old 8" Floppys are drying out, and the internal
> lubrication is probably non-existent. I did this very thing on three
> of my 5 1/4" Ampro Floppys, a needless mistake on my part.

Please note that current empirical data suggests that there is a real
difference
between 5.25 inch floppies and 8 inch floppies.
The 8 inch variety tends to stand up better to time.
This has been discussed on VCF (Vintage Computer Forums) and the cctech
mailinglist.

[ldkr...@gmail.com]

Torfinn,
Will you please post the links to those references? I'd like to read more on the 8" floppys.

Thanks.

Larry

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

On 03/22/2013 15:13, ldkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Torfinn,
> Will you please post the links to those references? I'd like to read more on the 8" floppys.

Here is one:
www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?20119-Floppy-media-recommendations-(was-the-floppy-thread)

You will find much more if you read the forums at VCF.
Too much, some would say. ;)
--
Torfinn Ingolfsen,
Norway