Obliquely on-topic - Apple TV v...

[Alan Browne]

A couple nights ago I bought:

- Apple TV
- WD TV Live Hub
- Boxee Box

The Apple TV had the best quality video stream (Netflix), The WD Live
TV Hub and Boxee Box are about the same with action sequences resulting
in blocks in the image ( I compared all using the same video off of
Netflix).

While I could access my Mac iTunes with the Apple TV, I couldn't get at
photos in a straight forward manner or video clips without importing via
iTunes (and many would not play due to format). Why can't the Apple TV
simply allow me to go to the file system (shared files of course).

The WD TV Live promised a lot (and also sports its own 1 TB drive. But I
could not access the file system on the Mac after a few hours of trying
including adding an "exports" file to /etc that was alleged to help...
There is no way to plug a keyboard into the Apple TV which makes
searches a pain (using the silly "joystick" keyboard). You can use an
iToy and "Remote" App, but my SO does not have an iToy and my iPhone
won't always be here for her.

The Boxee Box accessed the Macs (completely!) as it offers various
ethernet options including Apple. Music, clips are covered and of
course YouTube, Netflix and most useful: Direct program access via
networks (incomplete, but most stuff is there...) And I can hook up an
external drive if the need arises.

D-Link have raised the bar with the Boxee Box - it is Great! (Although
I don't approve of the unit package design: wasteful.

So I returned the Apple TV (with regret, nice box) and the WD TV Live
Hub (with regret too).

Regrettably Apple have starved the Apple TV a little too much and by
forcing everything via iTunes or iPhoto (or whatever) on the Mac, just
make it a cruddy experience. There is a mini-USB port on the Apple TV
why not allow a keyboard? Really?

Ironically the keyboard I'll be using with the Boxee Box is the aluminum
Apple KB that I don't like to work with...

By the way, this whole experience has not been fair on Best Buy: I
bought all three there with the express purpose of returning two of them.

--
"There were, unfortunately, no great principles on which parties
were divided – politics became a mere struggle for office."
-Sir John A. Macdonald

[Graley]

On 2012-10-05 21:50:09 +0000, Alan Browne

<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> said:

>
> A couple nights ago I bought:
>
> - Apple TV
> - WD TV Live Hub
> - Boxee Box
>
> The Apple TV had the best quality video stream (Netflix), The WD Live
> TV Hub and Boxee Box are about the same with action sequences resulting
> in blocks in the image ( I compared all using the same video off of
> Netflix).
>
> While I could access my Mac iTunes with the Apple TV, I couldn't get at
> photos in a straight forward manner or video clips without importing via
> iTunes (and many would not play due to format). Why can't the Apple TV
> simply allow me to go to the file system (shared files of course).

It can. Proceed as follows..
1- Open up your iTunes and turn on Apple TV from right bottom corner
2- From iTunes menu go to Advanced and click on Choose Photos to Share,
then click iPhoto in the option little window if you want to see all
photos
3- On your Apple TV 2, on main screen select "Computers", then your
library. On mine it says "Graham's library"
4- on that screen select "photos"
5- Everything from your computer should now appear on your TV screen.
6- You can select background music from your iTunes library to go with
the Slideshow. Actually

[Lloyd]

In article <5d2dnXzu7-KPy_LN...@giganews.com>,

I looked at all of these too. I kept the AppleTV since it works so well.

Being an iOS device, like all the rest of the iOS devices, it is locked
into the iTunes ecosystem. I see that as a plus.

[Alan Browne]

1. Because I manage my photos in a non-Apple paradigm (eg: the way I
want them, not the way Apple suggest), they are not accessible,
directly, with the Apple TV. I would have to change a lot of things.

2. Too late the Apple TV is gone. One key decider is no simple way to
use a keyboard without buying another Apple iToy. I suppose a low end
iPod, even used, would be sufficient but with the Boxee I'm using an
otherwise unemployed keyboard. (That reduce/reuse/recycle thing).

>>
>> The WD TV Live promised a lot (and also sports its own 1 TB drive. But I
>> could not access the file system on the Mac after a few hours of
>> trying including adding an "exports" file to /etc that was alleged to
>> help... There is no way to plug a keyboard into the Apple TV which
>> makes searches a pain (using the silly "joystick" keyboard). You can
>> use an iToy and "Remote" App, but my SO does not have an iToy and my
>> iPhone won't always be here for her.
>>
>> The Boxee Box accessed the Macs (completely!) as it offers various
>> ethernet options including Apple. Music, clips are covered and of
>> course YouTube, Netflix and most useful: Direct program access via
>> networks (incomplete, but most stuff is there...) And I can hook up
>> an external drive if the need arises.
>>
>> D-Link have raised the bar with the Boxee Box - it is Great!
>> (Although I don't approve of the unit package design: wasteful.
>>
>> So I returned the Apple TV (with regret, nice box) and the WD TV Live
>> Hub (with regret too).
>>
>> Regrettably Apple have starved the Apple TV a little too much and by
>> forcing everything via iTunes or iPhoto (or whatever) on the Mac, just
>> make it a cruddy experience. There is a mini-USB port on the Apple TV
>> why not allow a keyboard? Really?
>>
>> Ironically the keyboard I'll be using with the Boxee Box is the aluminum
>> Apple KB that I don't like to work with...
>>
>> By the way, this whole experience has not been fair on Best Buy: I
>> bought all three there with the express purpose of returning two of them.

[Alan Browne]

Me too. But the shortcomings (no keyboard, constrained Mac file access)
tipped me to the Boxee Box. While the Apple eco system is fine, my SO
doesn't have an iWidget so no keyboard if I'm not around with my iPhone.

I forgot to mention that even the Boxee Box remote has a QWERTY keyboard
on one side - but I prefer using a full keyboard attached via USB. (If
Apple had had a keyboard interface (there is a mini USB, but it's for
"maintenance") that would have been enough to keep the Apple TV - and
$70+tx difference).

And the Boxee Box does interface to iToys - I haven't explored that yet,
later today probably.

[Lloyd]

In article <YqOdnZ_T4YNLq-3N...@giganews.com>,

I can understand liking any of the 3 boxes.

For me, it is all about the movies and TV shows I can watch. Little
music or photo needs at all.

The performance with Netflix is superb on the ATV and the interface is
among the very best for dealing with Netflix. And being able to stream
from my iMac is a big plus.

With the addition of AirParrot to my iMac and W7 box giving me a stream
of the screen on those computers to the ATV, it is a pretty complete
solution.

But yeah, there are things it doesn't do or do well. Just none of those
things are on my list.

[Lloyd]

In article <michelle-2642C2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> In article
> <lloydparsons-D514...@news.eternal-september.org>,

> Lloyd <lloydp...@me.com> wrote:
>
> > I looked at all of these too. I kept the AppleTV since it works so well.
> >
> > Being an iOS device, like all the rest of the iOS devices, it is locked
> > into the iTunes ecosystem. I see that as a plus.
>

> Well, it also gets Hulu, NetFlix, You Tube, and other non-iTunes services.
> But, yes, for accessing data from a computer, it uses iTunes.

Yeah, I know about all those. I use Netflix and iTunes, and both of
those work well.

Hulu? Well, to me it isn't worth any money at all. So if I want to
watch anything on Hulu, I just crank it up on my iMac and mirror to the
ATV. No fees that way.

And the other non-iTunes services don't interest me although I would
like to see Amazon videos come to it. I figure a fat chance of that
happening! :)

[Alan Browne]

On 2012.10.06 10:02 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <YqOdnZ_T4YNLq-3N...@giganews.com>,

> How far from the box do you sit? My Apple TV is in the same equipment rack
> as the BlueRay player, DirecTV box, surround-sound receiver, and
> phonograph, about 15 feet from my viewing position. The maximum distance
> for USB is about 9'10", so a USB keyboard wouldn't do me much good.

I think you're off by about 9/64".

I've run USB cables 15 feet with no issues (tethered camera).

We sit 11' from the screen - the current extension cable is 3 metres,
plus the keyboard cable (about 60 cm or so).

> Besides, I wouldn't want to have that cable snaking through the room.

It's sub optimal, I agree but I can put it away to not offend my
esthetically obsessed friends (all two of them). But using the remote
keyboard or even an iToy is as well for other reasons. An iPod left
there would still need to be charged, for example.

[bj]

Lloyd <lloydp...@me.com> wrote:
>
> Hulu? Well, to me it isn't worth any money at all. So if I want to
> watch anything on Hulu, I just crank it up on my iMac and mirror to the
> ATV. No fees that way.
>
> And the other non-iTunes services don't interest me although I would
> like to see Amazon videos come to it. I figure a fat chance of that
> happening! :)

Can they be mirrored like Hulu?
(I don' t watch either one, I'm just curious.)
bj

[Lloyd]

In article
<1003945747371225755.130389...@news.giganews.com>
,

Yes they can. I use AirParrot because my iMac is not supported by
Apple's mirroring. I'm assuming that Apple's works similarly.

With mirroring supposedly anything you can put on your screen can be
wirelessly mirrored to your ATV.

[Alan Browne]

On 2012.10.06 10:41 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
> In article <S_ydneQg_txaoe3N...@giganews.com>,

> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>> The maximum distance for USB is about 9'10", so a USB keyboard
>>> wouldn't do me much good.
>>
>> I think you're off by about 9/64".
>

> I did write "about"; I think 9/64" falls into that umbrella. ;)

>
>>> Besides, I wouldn't want to have that cable snaking through the room.
>>
>> It's sub optimal, I agree but I can put it away to not offend my
>> esthetically obsessed friends (all two of them). But using the remote
>> keyboard or even an iToy is as well for other reasons. An iPod left
>> there would still need to be charged, for example.
>

> I could use my iPad or iPhone to control the •TV, but for the limited
> keyboarding I do with it, I don't mind using the onscreen keyboard.

Oh God no! It sucks. In fact it's badly implemented. If you're at the
letter "A" and want to go to the right edge (say the letter "F" you have
to click over 5 times -right- to get there. On GPS devices, or my PVR
(and others), you would click to the -left- and warp over to the right
edge of the map in one click. Likewise top/bottom warps. Apple screwed
that up. Further it has no ability to go into the text and delete or
add other characters in mid string. SUCKS!

Just entering my e-mail address and password for the Apple TV and again
for netflix was torture.

> Besides, I need to use that kind of keyboard for my other devices anyway.
> I just wish all those devices would standardize on a keyboard layout.

Indeed. Won't happen.

[David Taylor]

On 06/10/2012 15:02, Michelle Steiner wrote:
[]

> How far from the box do you sit? My Apple TV is in the same equipment rack
> as the BlueRay player, DirecTV box, surround-sound receiver, and

> phonograph, about 15 feet from my viewing position. The maximum distance

> for USB is about 9'10", so a USB keyboard wouldn't do me much good.

> Besides, I wouldn't want to have that cable snaking through the room.

Why not just get a wireless keyboard? Plugs into a USB port (at least,
it does on my Intel Atom PC).
--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

[Lloyd]

In article <k4pki0$gtd$1...@dont-email.me>,

Needs a driver. May not be available for these little boxes.

[Alan Browne]

Certainly not for Apple TV. There are a few suggestions on the Web that
the Apple TV can be hacked to use a wired keyboard (via the existing
mini USB) but I wouldn't try it (brick risk and update path complexities).

Both the aforementioned WD TV Live Hub and the Boxee Box have USB
connections for keyboard/mouse. (The Apple Alu Keyboard is nice in this
respect).

[David Taylor]

On 06/10/2012 17:51, Lloyd wrote:
> In article <k4pki0$gtd$1...@dont-email.me>,
> David Taylor <david-...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

[]

>> Why not just get a wireless keyboard? Plugs into a USB port (at least,
>> it does on my Intel Atom PC).
>
> Needs a driver. May not be available for these little boxes.

It just installed without any issues on the Winodws-7 PC - pity these
other devices aren't as well supported. I would have imagined that a
completely driver-less solution was possible, if the device can accept a
USB keyboard. Good luck - I certainly prefer the wireless keyboard (and
mouse) to the "TV" PC (connected via HDMI).

[JF Mezei]

On 12-10-06 09:43, Alan Browne wrote:

> 1. Because I manage my photos in a non-Apple paradigm (eg: the way I
> want them, not the way Apple suggest), they are not accessible,
> directly, with the Apple TV. I would have to change a lot of things.

You may wish to consider iSedora it ia a DLNA server which seems to
actually work ( I have it). It can serve directories of photos, videos,
music.

The problem with Apple TV is that it does not support standard open
formats such as .mkv Both my Sony VCR and Sharp TV support .mkv when
fed from DLNA (or in case of TV if a USB key is inserted with .mkv
content in it)

[Lloyd]

In article <slrnk71l51...@mbp55.local>,
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <lloydparsons-6E90...@news.eternal-september.org>

> Lloyd <lloydp...@me.com> wrote:
>
> > With the addition of AirParrot to my iMac and W7 box giving me a stream
> > of the screen on those computers to the ATV, it is a pretty complete
> > solution.
>

> Which AirParrot did you buy? The limitation of the 'one seat' license
> are not explained that I can see. Does that mean it is tied to one
> computer, or one computer AT A TIME?

Their licensing is confusing.

I bought 2 licenses. One for Windows and one for my iMac.

I think, but do not know, that I could move or use those licenses on
different machines at different times. But in my case, it doesn't
matter.

Email them as I did and ask that specific question. They/he is very
quick to respond.

[Warren Oates]

In article <5d2dnXzu7-KPy_LN...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> A couple nights ago I bought:
>
> - Apple TV
> - WD TV Live Hub
> - Boxee Box
>
> The Apple TV had the best quality video stream (Netflix), The WD Live
> TV Hub and Boxee Box are about the same with action sequences resulting
> in blocks in the image ( I compared all using the same video off of
> Netflix).

I have an older WD Live, which accesses (via SMB nicely or through
Serviio reasonably) everything on my MacPro that it knows how to
display: movie files, images, etc. It's a bit of an old-fashioned
interface, just filenames on the screen, but it plays everything
flawlessly; mind you, I have an older 720p tv.

I recently bought a Zotac id41,(NVidia ION) installed Archlinux and XBMC
on it, and it plays everything too, but with that cute interface where
it goes out and finds thumbnails for everything and cast lists and plot
descriptions and goes out to YouTube to find trailers for your movies
and keeps track of what tv shows you've watched and so on and it's kind
of fun, plays everything flawless, and has way better video control and
quality and way better audio (via HDMI).

XBMC runs on all platforms; if I need Netflix, though, I'll need to
install Windows on the Zotac (or Hackintosh, I guess) because Netflix
won't play with Linux.
--

... do not cover a warm kettle or your stock may sour. -- Julia Child

[Lloyd]

In article <50757ea7$0$27102$c3e8da3$66d3...@news.astraweb.com>,

I think that Netflix uses MS's Silverlight which has never been ported
to Linux. There was some discussion and work from what I've read, but
nothing has come of it as far as I can find out.

[Warren Oates]

In article
<lloydparsons-CAFB...@news.eternal-september.org>,

I think that the Netflix people are worried that clever Linux types will
"break" the DRM they use. Netflix plays on the WD Live Plus, but not,
apparently, if you geo-locate outside the US.

[Alan Browne]

On 2012.10.10 12:57 , Warren Oates wrote:

> I think that the Netflix people are worried that clever Linux types will
> "break" the DRM they use. Netflix plays on the WD Live Plus, but not,
> apparently, if you geo-locate outside the US.

There is a Canadian Netflix subscription plan ($7.99 / mo) - works fine
in Canada.

[Warren Oates]

In article <V9ednWss0ITzeejN...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2012.10.10 12:57 , Warren Oates wrote:
>
> > I think that the Netflix people are worried that clever Linux types will
> > "break" the DRM they use. Netflix plays on the WD Live Plus, but not,
> > apparently, if you geo-locate outside the US.
>
> There is a Canadian Netflix subscription plan ($7.99 / mo) - works fine
> in Canada.

Yes, but the Canadian content (like most Canadian content) is crap.

Here's a little-known secret: Netflix is all one big company; they
assign an account number and password and provide service based on
geo-location; if you sign up in Canada and then use a very good VPN
service to log in from Cincinnati (say) you are presented with the US
content.

Like I said, I can't do this with Linux. It's probably worth my while,
if I really want Netflix, to reload the HTPC with Windows and run XBMC
from there.

[Alan Browne]

On 2012.10.11 08:25 , Warren Oates wrote:
> In article <V9ednWss0ITzeejN...@giganews.com>,
> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2012.10.10 12:57 , Warren Oates wrote:
>>
>>> I think that the Netflix people are worried that clever Linux types will
>>> "break" the DRM they use. Netflix plays on the WD Live Plus, but not,
>>> apparently, if you geo-locate outside the US.
>>
>> There is a Canadian Netflix subscription plan ($7.99 / mo) - works fine
>> in Canada.
>
> Yes, but the Canadian content (like most Canadian content) is crap.

I assumed it was the same. IAC for the content we've looked for to
date, we've found it on Netflix or the "Shows" tab under Boxee and so on.

> Here's a little-known secret: Netflix is all one big company; they
> assign an account number and password and provide service based on
> geo-location; if you sign up in Canada and then use a very good VPN
> service to log in from Cincinnati (say) you are presented with the US
> content.

I've yet to setup a VPN, though I intend to to get to some US television
content that is not available via the web in Canada. (PBS being one
example). The Boxee Box allows a proxy for that.

I'll try HMA first ($11 or so for a 1 month trial. About $8/mo for an
annual subscription (the whole year prepaid I assume)).

[Warren Oates]

In article <aO2dnfKcCfGooerN...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> I'll try HMA first ($11 or so for a 1 month trial. About $8/mo for an
> annual subscription (the whole year prepaid I assume)).

I've been using Witopia the last two years. Everything works as
advertised (iPlayer for the BBC, Hulu in the US, e.g.) and it's $70/year
for the most expensive option. They have servers all over the world, and
they support all platforms (well, on Linux they assume you have
NetworkManager and nm-applet installed, but that's OK in its own way)
and their documentation on "how to set it up" is good. Their OS X
software is pretty easy to deal with.

[Alan Browne]

Proposition is similar to HMA. HMA provides more detail about their
servers (location, # of IP addresses available by city, etc). It's a
little more expensive - not enough to sweat. And I can try it for 1
month to be sure before committing to the longer term plan.

[Alan Browne]

On 2012.10.11 18:56 , Warren Oates wrote:

What data rates are you getting with Witopia? I have a 30 Mb/s service
(and it works that fast when DLing).

[Warren Oates]

In article <1KednV5dK6Ao_OrN...@giganews.com>,

Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> On 2012.10.11 18:56 , Warren Oates wrote:
> > In article <aO2dnfKcCfGooerN...@giganews.com>,
> > Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> I'll try HMA first ($11 or so for a 1 month trial. About $8/mo for an
> >> annual subscription (the whole year prepaid I assume)).
> >
> > I've been using Witopia the last two years. Everything works as
> > advertised (iPlayer for the BBC, Hulu in the US, e.g.) and it's $70/year
> > for the most expensive option. They have servers all over the world, and
> > they support all platforms (well, on Linux they assume you have
> > NetworkManager and nm-applet installed, but that's OK in its own way)
> > and their documentation on "how to set it up" is good. Their OS X
> > software is pretty easy to deal with.
>
> What data rates are you getting with Witopia? I have a 30 Mb/s service
> (and it works that fast when DLing).

I get the max speed that my crappy ISP gives me (nowhere near your 30
Mb service). Some Witopia servers "seem" faster than others, but I've
never had overall reason to complain. Live BBC works without a stutter
on my big-screen tv, same for Hulu.

I've never had occasion to deal with Witopia's customer service, but
I've heard that they're very quick and responsive.