Terminology: Recent, Unseen, and Seen messages
Nancy McGough
and "recent" messages, I started thinking about "recent" messages
and have some a terminology question. Here's how I think this
works: The messages in a mailbox are partitioned like this:
+----------------------------------/-------------------+
| / |
| +-----------------/--------+ |
| | / | |
| (A) | (B) / (C) | (D) |
| | Recent | |
| | / | |
| +------------/-------------+ | |
| / |
| Seen / Unseen |
| / |
+-----------------------/------------------------------+
* Every message is either Seen or Unseen where "Seen" means that
the message has been opened and viewed.
* Every message is either Recent or Not Recent where "Recent"
means that the message was added to the mailbox since the last
time you opened the mailbox.
* Every message is in one of the following 4 categories
(A) Seen and Not Recent
(B) Seen and Recent
(C) Unseen and Recent
(D) Unseen and Not Recent
The interesting category is (B) Seen and Recent. If a mailbox
is closed, then these are messages that were viewed in another
box and then moved to this box. If a mailbox is open, this type
of message is Recent and EITHER was opened in & moved from
another box, OR the message was viewed during this mailbox session.
My Question: Am I correct that this is the way that messages in
a mailbox are partitioned?
Quiz: Without thinking too hard: Which of these messages would you
call "New"? Now start thinking about it and read the Pine docs -
Does the Pine definition of "New" match your intuitive definition
of "New"?
I'm interested in other people's thoughts about this...
Thanks,
Nancy
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Mark Crispin
> The interesting category is (B) Seen and Recent. If a mailbox
> is closed, then these are messages that were viewed in another
> box and then moved to this box. If a mailbox is open, this type
> of message is Recent and EITHER was opened in & moved from
> another box, OR the message was viewed during this mailbox session.
I wouldn't quite phrase it this way, but you have the right general idea.
If a message is Seen and Recent, then either:
1) it was read in this session
2) it was delivered to this mailbox with Seen status already set
Either way, this session is the first session to be informed about that
message (not "viewed").
> Quiz: Without thinking too hard: Which of these messages would you
> call "New"? Now start thinking about it and read the Pine docs -
> Does the Pine definition of "New" match your intuitive definition
> of "New"?
IMAP defines "new" as being Recent and not Seen.
Pine normally uses a simple definition which ties "new" to not Seen, on
the grounds that novice users would find the semantics of Recent to be too
confusing.
-- Mark --
http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Steve Hubert
> the grounds that novice users would find the semantics of Recent to be too
> confusing.
And, if you use the IMAPSTATUS token in your index-format, you are assumed
to not be a novice and to be able to overcome the confusion mostly on your
own!
Steve
Allodoxaphobia
<-snip->
>
> * Every message is in one of the following 4 categories
> (A) Seen and Not Recent
> (B) Seen and Recent
> (C) Unseen and Recent
> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
Well, there is:
(E) Seen and Forgotten --- my biggest category. :-)
Jonesy
--
| Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | OS/2
| Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | linux __
| 7,703' -- 2,345m | frontier.net | DM68mn SK
Mark Crispin
Yup, hence my use of the weasel-wording "normally"...
I've used IMAPSTATUS since it was first introduced. I'm very happy with
how it works.
Eduardo Chappa
NM> After I updated my Pine speed tips to include the tip about rules and
NM> "recent" messages, I started thinking about "recent" messages and have
NM> some a terminology question. Here's how I think this works: The
NM> messages in a mailbox are partitioned like this:
NM> [...]
NM> * Every message is either Seen or Unseen where "Seen" means that the
NM> message has been opened and viewed.
NM>
NM> * Every message is either Recent or Not Recent where "Recent" means
NM> that the message was added to the mailbox since the last time you
NM> opened the mailbox.
NM>
NM> * Every message is in one of the following 4 categories
NM> (A) Seen and Not Recent
NM> (B) Seen and Recent
NM> (C) Unseen and Recent
NM> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
NM>
NM> The interesting category is (B) Seen and Recent. If a mailbox is
NM> closed, then these are messages that were viewed in another box and
NM> then moved to this box. If a mailbox is open, this type of message
NM> is Recent and EITHER was opened in & moved from another box, OR the
NM> message was viewed during this mailbox session.
NM>
NM>
NM> My Question: Am I correct that this is the way that messages in a
NM> mailbox are partitioned?
You posted a similar message in the Pine-Info list here:
http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/2003.01/msg00045.html
and I already answered it here:
http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/2003.01/msg00047.html
Here's some additional information:
http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/pine-info/misc/index-format.html#new
http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/pine-info/filters/#Status
Eduardo Chappa
A> On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:10:00 +0000, Nancy McGough hath writ:
A>
A> <-snip->
A> >
A> > * Every message is in one of the following 4 categories
A> > (A) Seen and Not Recent
A> > (B) Seen and Recent
A> > (C) Unseen and Recent
A> > (D) Unseen and Not Recent
A>
A> Well, there is:
A> (E) Seen and Forgotten --- my biggest category. :-)
Hey, we need a flag for that too!
Nancy McGough
> *** Nancy McGough (nm-this-addr...@no.sp.am) wrote in...:
>
> NM> (A) Seen and Not Recent
> NM> (B) Seen and Recent
> NM> (C) Unseen and Recent
> NM> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
>
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/2003.01/msg00045.html
>
> and I already answered it here:
> http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/2003.01/msg00047.html
>
> Here's some additional information:
> http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/pine-info/misc/index-format.html#new
> http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/pine-info/filters/#Status
Hello Eduardo,
Our discussion about this in pine-info is part of what motivated
me to write my message about the 4 categories of messages. It is
still not clear to me what *you* think Pine means by New? Is it
(A), (B), (C), (D), or a combination of these?
On your Filters page you say this:
A message is considered New in a filter if it was not present in
the folder the last time it was opened. This includes messages
that arrive when the folder is already opened as well as messages
that arrived during the period of time that the was closed.
I think that what you are saying here is that "New in a filter"
means a message is in category (B) or (C) -- is that what you're
saying?
Also, what do you think Pine means by "New" in other (non-filter)
parts of the user interface? Does it mean something different
from the "New in a filter" meaning? If so, which one or more of
(A), (B), (C), and (D) does it mean?
Thanks,
Nancy
--
Eduardo Chappa
NM> On 11 Mar 2003 Eduardo Chappa (cha...@math.washington.edu) wrote:
NM> > *** Nancy McGough (nm-this-addr...@no.sp.am) wrote in...:
NM> >
NM> > NM> * Every message is in one of the following 4 categories
NM> > NM> (A) Seen and Not Recent
NM> > NM> (B) Seen and Recent
NM> > NM> (C) Unseen and Recent
NM> > NM> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
NM> >
NM>
NM> Our discussion about this in pine-info is part of what motivated
NM> me to write my message about the 4 categories of messages. It is
NM> still not clear to me what *you* think Pine means by New? Is it
NM> (A), (B), (C), (D), or a combination of these?
Hello Nancy,
The answer to your second question is "(B) + (C)", but I need to tell
you how I understand the options:
Seen: A message is seen if Pine requested the body of the message from the
server (in the case of a IMAP/POP3 connection). This could have been done
by opening, replying, bouncing or forwarding the message.
Unseen: The opposite of Seen. If the folder is opened, pine has only
requested the headers of that message.
Recent: The message arrived to the folder since the last time the folder
was closed (this means approximately that you did not see that message in
the folder the last time it was opened. This explanation is not exact,
because it depends on the interval that you use for checking for new mail,
there may be new mail in your folder when you close it, but you don't see
it because Pine did not check for it. That's why there is a configuration
option [X] check-mail-when-quitting).
Not Recent: A message it's not recent if it was in the folder the last
time it was closed.
Observe that while a folder is opened, the property of a message being
Recent has nothing to do with the message being seen or unseen. A message
that is recent while a folder is opened will remain recent until the
folder is closed.
While a folder is closed if a message is "Recent" then it is Unseen
too.
Since a message can only be "Seen or Unseen", (B) + (C) is equivalent to
saying that a message is New if and only if it's Recent, and that's the
way I understand the word New.
As far back as I can see, Pine uses the word "New" to indicate messages
that are flagged with a "N" in the default configuration of Pine. This
includes
1. messages that were not in the folder the last time you closed it (this
includes messages that arrive while the folder is opened),
2. messages that were in folder the last time you closed the folder, but
you did not read, or
3. messages that were in folder the last time you closed it, you read
them, but you decided to flag "N" again, and did not read again before
you closed the folder.
For IMAPSTATUS only messages that satisfy 1 above are New, and those that
satisfy 2 or 3 above are "Unseen" or "Unread". I agree with 1 above as the
definition of New. IMAPSTATUS flags both types of messages (2 and 3 above)
as Unseen. I do not completely agree with that, but it works fine for me
too.
NM> On your Filters page you say this:
NM>
NM> A message is considered New in a filter if it was not present in the
NM> folder the last time it was opened. This includes messages that
NM> arrive when the folder is already opened as well as messages that
NM> arrived during the period of time that the was closed.
NM>
NM> I think that what you are saying here is that "New in a filter"
NM> means a message is in category (B) or (C) -- is that what you're
NM> saying?
I am saying (B) + (C) in the sense that I explained before.
NM> Also, what do you think Pine means by "New" in other (non-filter)
NM> parts of the user interface? Does it mean something different
NM> from the "New in a filter" meaning? If so, which one or more of
NM> (A), (B), (C), and (D) does it mean?
In the default configuration of Pine, and with the definitions that I gave
above, the word "New" is used to indicate "Recent" or "Unseen" in the
index screen. In your options above, this is "(B) + (C) + (D)".
When you press the TAB key pine searches for the next message that is
either "Recent and Unread" or "Unseen" (or important, depending on your
configuration), that is not deleted, that is "(C) +(D)" in your options,
within the same folder. If it does not find any message that matches the
above criteria and you are either in the incoming folders or news
collection, it will go to the next folder in that collection and open that
folder (or offer to open that folder) if it finds a "Recent" message, that
is "(C)" in your options, in the next folder in that collection.
I can't think of any other place in Pine where the word "new" has another
different meaning. If I think about it, I'll post it too.
Nancy McGough
> NM> > *** Nancy McGough (nm-this-addr...@no.sp.am) wrote in...:
> NM> >
> NM> > NM> * Every message is in one of the following 4 categories
> NM> > NM> (A) Seen and Not Recent
> NM> > NM> (B) Seen and Recent
> NM> > NM> (C) Unseen and Recent
> NM> > NM> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
> NM> >
> NM>
> NM> Our discussion about this in pine-info is part of what motivated
> NM> me to write my message about the 4 categories of messages. It is
> NM> still not clear to me what *you* think Pine means by New? Is it
> NM> (A), (B), (C), (D), or a combination of these?
>
>
> saying that a message is New if and only if it's Recent, and that's the
> way I understand the word New.
OK, now explain these, which are on the Filter screen:
Message is New (Unseen)? =
Set Choose One
--- --------------------
(*) Don't care, always matches
( ) Yes
( ) No
Message is Recent? =
Set Choose One
--- --------------------
(*) Don't care, always matches
( ) Yes
( ) No
Which categories of (A), (B), (C), or (D) do "New (Unseen)"
messages fall in?
Thanks,
Nancy
Eduardo Chappa
NM> On 11 Mar 2003 Eduardo Chappa (cha...@math.washington.edu) wrote:
NM> > NM> > *** Nancy McGough (nm-this-addr...@no.sp.am) wrote in...:
NM> > NM> >
NM> > NM> > NM> * Every message is in one of the following 4 categories
NM> > NM> > NM> (A) Seen and Not Recent
NM> > NM> > NM> (B) Seen and Recent
NM> > NM> > NM> (C) Unseen and Recent
NM> > NM> > NM> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
NM> > NM> >
NM> > NM>
NM> > NM> Our discussion about this in pine-info is part of what motivated
NM> > NM> me to write my message about the 4 categories of messages. It is
NM> > NM> still not clear to me what *you* think Pine means by New? Is it
NM> > NM> (A), (B), (C), (D), or a combination of these?
NM> >
NM> >
NM> > Since a message can only be "Seen or Unseen", (B) + (C) is
NM> > equivalent to saying that a message is New if and only if it's
NM> > Recent, and that's the way I understand the word New.
NM>
NM>
NM> OK, now explain these, which are on the Filter screen:
I suppose you don't really mean to ask for the option (*) Don't care,
always matches, but you want to ask for the option (*) Yes. My answer will
be to the option (*) Yes.
NM> Message is New (Unseen)? =
NM> Set Choose One
NM> --- --------------------
NM> ( ) Don't care, always matches /* modified by ECH */
NM> (*) Yes /* modified by ECH */
NM> ( ) No
That would correspond to (D).
NM> Message is Recent? =
NM> Set Choose One
NM> --- --------------------
NM> ( ) Don't care, always matches /* modified by ECH */
NM> (*) Yes /* modified by ECH */
NM> ( ) No
That would correspond to (C), because the filter is applied as soon as the
message is seen by Pine, and before you see it. If filters were applied
every 1 minute say, it would be (B) + (C).
Nancy McGough
> NM> > NM> > *** Nancy McGough (nm-this-addr...@no.sp.am) wrote in...:
>
> NM> > NM> > NM> * Every message is in one of the following 4 categories
> NM> > NM> > NM> (A) Seen and Not Recent
> NM> > NM> > NM> (B) Seen and Recent
> NM> > NM> > NM> (C) Unseen and Recent
> NM> > NM> > NM> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
>
>
> NM> OK, now explain these, which are on the Filter screen:
>
> I suppose you don't really mean to ask for the option (*) Don't care,
> always matches, but you want to ask for the option (*) Yes. My answer will
> be to the option (*) Yes.
Yes, you're right. I just copy and pasted from the Pine Filter
screen because my goal here is to show how confusing this screen
is.
> NM> Message is New (Unseen)? =
> NM> Set Choose One
> NM> --- --------------------
> NM> ( ) Don't care, always matches /* modified by ECH */
> NM> (*) Yes /* modified by ECH */
> NM> ( ) No
>
> That would correspond to (D).
The way that I understand this is that a "Message is New (Unseen)"
if it is in either category (C) or (D).
> NM> Message is Recent? =
> NM> Set Choose One
> NM> --- --------------------
> NM> ( ) Don't care, always matches /* modified by ECH */
> NM> (*) Yes /* modified by ECH */
> NM> ( ) No
>
> That would correspond to (C), because the filter is applied as soon as the
> message is seen by Pine, and before you see it. If filters were applied
> every 1 minute say, it would be (B) + (C).
The way I understand this is that a "Message is Recent" if it is
in either category (B) or (C).
And this is the reason that you (Eduardo) and I have not been
communicating very clearly about this topic. Now the big
question: What is the correct interpretation of
Message is New (Unseen)
Message is Recent
My goal here is not to prove anyone right or wrong. I'm trying to
show that the user interface on this screen is broken and should
be fixed!
Thanks,
Nancy
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Eduardo Chappa
NM> On 11 Mar 2003 Eduardo Chappa (cha...@math.washington.edu) wrote:
NM> > NM> > NM> > *** Nancy McGough (nm-this-addr...@no.sp.am)
NM> > NM> > NM> > wrote in...:
NM> >
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> * Every message is in one of the following 4
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> categories
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> (A) Seen and Not Recent
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> (B) Seen and Recent
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> (C) Unseen and Recent
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
NM> >
NM> > [...]
NM> >
NM> > NM> Message is New (Unseen)? =
NM> > NM> Set Choose One
NM> > NM> --- --------------------
NM> > NM> ( ) Don't care, always matches /* modified by ECH */
NM> > NM> (*) Yes /* modified by ECH */
NM> > NM> ( ) No
NM> >
NM> > That would correspond to (D).
NM>
NM> The way that I understand this is that a "Message is New (Unseen)" if
NM> it is in either category (C) or (D).
It can not be (C) or (D). The whole point of having BOTH "new (unseen)"
and "recent" is to split (C) and (D). In real life "New (Unseen)" means
"Old (Unseen)", but since Pine does not introduce the concept of Old,
there's the confusion, since "Old (Unseen)" and "Recent" are flagged as
"N" in the default configuration of Pine (in modern language, that's what
the STATUS token does in the index screen).
NM> > NM> Message is Recent? =
NM> > NM> Set Choose One
NM> > NM> --- --------------------
NM> > NM> ( ) Don't care, always matches /* modified by ECH */
NM> > NM> (*) Yes /* modified by ECH */
NM> > NM> ( ) No
NM> >
NM> > That would correspond to (C), because the filter is applied as soon as the
NM> > message is seen by Pine, and before you see it. If filters were applied
NM> > every 1 minute say, it would be (B) + (C).
NM>
NM> The way I understand this is that a "Message is Recent" if it is
NM> in either category (B) or (C).
Right, I agree with you. In real life a Recent message is (B) or (C), but
when a filter is applied, it can only be (C). Remember that while a folder
is opened (which is the only time that the Recent Status matters), it does
not matter if a message is Seen or Unseen, so trying to split (B) and (C)
for filters does not make much sense. If you just say that a filter will
be applied to a Recent message, it will cause less confusion than saying
that a filter will be applied to a "Recent and Unseen" message, because
*only* for a filter (C) and "Recent" are equivalent.
NM> And this is the reason that you (Eduardo) and I have not been
NM> communicating very clearly about this topic. Now the big question:
NM> What is the correct interpretation of
NM>
NM> Message is New (Unseen)
NM> Message is Recent
In general New (unseen), means "unseen and not recent", or "old and not
seen". In filters this interpretation is correct.
In general Recent, means "not having been in the folder when it was
closed", but because of the way that filters work, this can only be
interpreted as "recent and unseen", the other possibility does not make
sense for filters. Maybe an example will make my point.
Say I decided to send you *this* message by e-mail and not post it to
this newsgroup. Say that you have a filter that is defined as follows:
From Pattern: Eduardo Chappa
Message is New (unseen)
(*) It matches, does not matter
Message is Recent
(*) Yes
Action:
move to folder SPAM
then when you open Pine, this message would be moved to the folder SPAM.
You could not read this message in your INBOX (only in the SPAM folder,
and that's where you should be reading this message now), and because of
that, the possibility "Recent and Seen" is impossible in INBOX when a
filter like this is applied to it. That's why it does not make sense to
talk of "Recent and Seen" for a filter, it's just impossible. This is the
reason why I don't think of a Recent message (in filters) as "Recent and
Unseen", I just think of it as "Recent". Oh, by the way, when you see this
message in the SPAM folder, it will be "Recent" there.
NM> My goal here is not to prove anyone right or wrong. I'm trying to show
NM> that the user interface on this screen is broken and should be fixed!
I'm not trying to prove anyone right or wrong either. Just trying to
explain the interface, so that it will be clear for everyone. In any case,
I agree that the text in this screen needs improvement.
The only improvement that I would make would be to replace "New (Unseen)"
by "Old (Unseen)". I believe that the rest can stay the same (well, maybe
after making this change one can replace "Recent" by "New", so as to make
it very clear for everyone).
Would these changes clear up the issues that you have with this screen?
Nancy McGough
I was hoping that someone on the Pine team would join in here and
tell us the correct interpretation of these terms (and I'd still
like that!), but in the meantime I broke down and did some
experiments. It was just inconceivable to me that the Pine team
would use the phrase "New (Unseen)" to mean "Old (Unseen)"! The
results of my experiments show that my hypothesis is correct. A
message is "New (Unseen)" if it is in one of these categories:
(C) Unseen and Recent
(D) Unseen and Not Recent
My first experiment was to create a mailbox with messages in all
4 of the categories (A) (B) (C) and (D) and then create a filter
that moved only the "New (Unseen)" messages, i.e., everything
else was marked "Don't care, always matches".
After that I got wise and realized that it's much easier to do
these experiments using IndexColor rules. If you do these
experiments Eduardo, I think you will agree that "New (Unseen)"
is more than "(D) Unseen and Not Recent."
BTW, an easy way to create a message that's in category "(B) Seen
and Recent" is to set mark-fcc-seen and then Fcc a message to the
experiment folder.
> In any case,
> I agree that the text in this screen needs improvement.
It sure does! And once I figure out what exactly these terms are
supposed to mean, I have some suggestions...
Looking forward to hearing about your experiment!
Nancy McGough
> *** Mark Crispin (m...@CAC.Washington.EDU) wrote in comp.mail.pine today:
> MC> On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Steve Hubert wrote:
> MC> >
> MC> > And, if you use the IMAPSTATUS token in your index-format, you are
> MC> > assumed to not be a novice and to be able to overcome the confusion
> MC> > mostly on your own!
My guess is that there are people who use the STATUS (the
default) who are confused and that there are people who use
IMAPSTATUS who are confused. My theory of the moment is that
Eduardo is confused and, as he says below, he uses IMAPSTATUS.
> MC> I've used IMAPSTATUS since it was first introduced. I'm very happy
> MC> with how it works.
>
> Me too. I've used IMAPSTATUS ever since you first mentioned it, and I'm
> very happy that you introduced it into Pine.
I use both STATUS and IMAPSTATUS in my index-format and I think
I've finally figured this out, but it might actually be me who is
confused.
Please clarify by replying to my recent message with Subject
"Re: Terminology: Recent, Unseen, and Seen messages"!
Thank you,
Nancy
awaiting clarification
Eduardo Chappa
NM> On 12 Mar 2003 Eduardo Chappa (cha...@math.washington.edu) wrote:
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> * Every message is in one of the following 4
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> categories
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> (A) Seen and Not Recent
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> (B) Seen and Recent
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> (C) Unseen and Recent
NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> > NM> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
NM> > NM> >
NM> > NM> > [...]
NM> > NM> >
NM> > NM> > NM> Message is New (Unseen)? =
NM> > NM> > NM> Set Choose One
NM> > NM> > NM> --- --------------------
NM> > NM> > NM> ( ) Don't care, always matches /* modified by ECH */
NM> > NM> > NM> (*) Yes /* modified by ECH */
NM> > NM> > NM> ( ) No
NM> > NM> >
NM> > NM> > That would correspond to (D).
NM> > NM>
NM> > NM> The way that I understand this is that a "Message is New
NM> > NM> (Unseen)" if it is in either category (C) or (D).
NM> >
NM> > It can not be (C) or (D). The whole point of having BOTH "new
NM> > (unseen)" and "recent" is to split (C) and (D). In real life "New
NM> > (Unseen)" means "Old (Unseen)", but since Pine does not introduce
NM> > the concept of Old, there's the confusion, since "Old (Unseen)" and
NM> > "Recent" are flagged as "N" in the default configuration of Pine (in
NM> > modern language, that's what the STATUS token does in the index
NM> > screen).
NM>
NM>
NM> I was hoping that someone on the Pine team would join in here and tell
NM> us the correct interpretation of these terms (and I'd still like
NM> that!), but in the meantime I broke down and did some experiments. It
NM> was just inconceivable to me that the Pine team would use the phrase
NM> "New (Unseen)" to mean "Old (Unseen)"! The results of my experiments
NM> show that my hypothesis is correct. A message is "New (Unseen)" if it
NM> is in one of these categories:
NM>
NM> (C) Unseen and Recent
NM> (D) Unseen and Not Recent
NM>
NM> My first experiment was to create a mailbox with messages in all 4 of
NM> the categories (A) (B) (C) and (D) and then create a filter that moved
NM> only the "New (Unseen)" messages, i.e., everything else was marked
NM> "Don't care, always matches".
NM>
NM> After that I got wise and realized that it's much easier to do these
NM> experiments using IndexColor rules. If you do these experiments
NM> Eduardo, I think you will agree that "New (Unseen)" is more than "(D)
NM> Unseen and Not Recent."
Yes, I did these experiments and what I have described throughout our
conversation is the result of these experiments. Are you using an imap
server to do your experiments?. Could you please do your experiments in a
local folder in Pine?
NM> BTW, an easy way to create a message that's in category "(B) Seen and
NM> Recent" is to set mark-fcc-seen and then Fcc a message to the
NM> experiment folder.
Right, that message is Seen, but no, the message is not Recent. A filter
to this message would have to say:
New (unseen) (*) No
Recent (*) No
having said that, you can have Recent and Seen message, but only after
having opened, seeing the message marked with a "N" (in imapstatus) and
reading that message. IN that case, the filter will match the message when
this is closed, but not when the folder is opened. Can you see why?
NM> Looking forward to hearing about your experiment!
I will send you a test folder by e-mail that shows everything that I am
talking about. Please test it.