If they are who? I figure in the days of webmail, pop3, cell phones, black berry and whatever many would not be using Pine anymore. I still use it at times. Its very handy with old computers with dialup accounts in remote locations. In these environments webmail is simply out of the question.
John
------------------------------------------------------------------------- SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
"The president didn't go into Iraq because the polls told him it was popular. As a matter of fact, the polls said just the opposite. But leadership isn't about polls. It's about making decisions you think are right and then standing behind those decisions. That's why America is safer with George W. Bush as president" (Arnold Schwarzenegger, 2004).
Matthew 7:12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Big Brother asked if people still use pine.
I use pine all the time. It is my preferred mail client and news reader.
And I make my wife and kids use it too.
;-)
- Rob
--
Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! Edmonton (780)438-9343 (voice) (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Big Brother wrote: > If they are who? I figure in the days of webmail, pop3, cell phones, black > berry and whatever many would not be using Pine anymore.
POP3 is actually older technology than Pine; and I would consider moving from Pine to POP3 to be a step backwards.
The replacement for POP3 is IMAP. Pine was (and IMHO remains) the best IMAP client implementation.
-- Mark --
http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Si vis pacem, para bellum.
> If they are who? I figure in the days of webmail, pop3, cell phones, black > berry and whatever many would not be using Pine anymore. I still use it at > times. Its very handy with old computers with dialup accounts in remote > locations. In these environments webmail is simply out of the question.
Webmail would be my last choice in any environment. I'm on DSL, with a reasonably fast computer (1.6GHz P4), and prefer Pine to all other mail clients I've tried.
-- Chris F.A. Johnson, author | <http://cfaj.freeshell.org> Shell Scripting Recipes: | My code in this post, if any, A Problem-Solution Approach | is released under the 2005, Apress | GNU General Public Licence
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:31:42 +0000, Big Brother <jo...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote: > If they are who? I figure in the days of webmail, pop3, cell phones, black > berry and whatever many would not be using Pine anymore. I still use it at > times.
I use it all the time; well except for news reading. Greatest virture is the absence of JavaScript and automatic derefencing of URLs.
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Big Brother wrote: > If they are who? I figure in the days of webmail, pop3, cell phones, black > berry and whatever many would not be using Pine anymore. I still use it at
pop3 is an old thing, imap should be preferred (and the same team which provides pine, provides an easy to use imap daemon). I use pine locally on my workstation at work, but my institute provides also several imap servers. I had an imap server of my own in one case I was away on the chilean Andes for several week for business. And I have a private account on a public provider which still uses pop ... and I access it as a secondary incoming folder from pine.
cell phones, black berry, webmail
I'm one of the rare italians who do not own a cell phone, and I'm likely never to use cell phones or black berry. Beside the fact I do not NEED to be called at all times (10 odd hours I spend in the office are enough), I'm getting older and do not see very well tiny displays.
Strangely enough you do not quote other graphical clients in addition to webmail. Some of our staff here hate pine and prefer graphical clients for local use, and webmail for travel. One of them even uses webmail locally.
Personally I hate those sort of clients, I like pine because : (1) it's fully RFC standard compliant ; (2) can be easily driven with few keystrokes ; (3) is highly configurable ... and in a smart way which is very close to my feeling ... almost all the times I wanted to do something I found a way to do it in the config.
When travelling for a long time, I prefer to take with me a machine with pine installed, and activate an imapd on my workstation. If travelling for a short time, assumed I could not just avoid reading my e-mail for a couple of days (which I can), I prefer ssh'ing to my machine and use pine to the usage of a web mailer.
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- nos...@mi.iasf.cnr.it is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.
I would agree. I use Outlook 2003 locally, webmail for traveling, and also use Pine on occassion.
John
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, LC's NoSpam Newsreading account wrote:
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:36:58 +0100 > From: LC's NoSpam Newsreading account <nos...@mi.iasf.cnr.it> > Newsgroups: comp.mail.pine > Subject: Re: Do people still use Pine? > nos...@mi.iasf.cnr.it is a newsreading account used by more persons to > avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. > Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so.
------------------------------------------------------------------------- SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
"The president didn't go into Iraq because the polls told him it was popular. As a matter of fact, the polls said just the opposite. But leadership isn't about polls. It's about making decisions you think are right and then standing behind those decisions. That's why America is safer with George W. Bush as president" (Arnold Schwarzenegger, 2004).
Matthew 7:12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Henning Hucke wrote: > On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Rob Brown wrote:
>> [...] >> And I make my wife and kids use it too.
>> ;-)
> You cruel thing you %-).
> But to become serious again: What do they say about the usability of > pine?
They don't complain. They find it easy enough to use. They never want to do anything complicated, so how hard can it be?
In direct answer to your question: They don't say anything. ;-)
- Rob
--
Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! Edmonton (780)438-9343 (voice) (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/
Rob Brown <mylastn...@gmcl.com> wrote: > They don't complain. They find it easy enough to use. They never > want to do anything complicated, so how hard can it be?
Of course they do complain - e.g. see my thread with subject "Pine Shortcomings" which deals with attaching emails to a reply.
Big Brother <jo...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote: > If they are who? I figure in the days of webmail, pop3, cell phones, > black berry and whatever many would not be using Pine anymore.
I am a developer in the Unix world, and I use Pine all day long because I'm used to work in Console windows. Graphical stuff is nice, but mostly degrades your performance because the most GUI makers don't pay attention to keyboard shortcuts.
This doesn't mean Pine is perfect - it has its shortcomings - but it is the best Console based Mail User Agent I've come to see yet.
> I am a developer in the Unix world, and I use Pine all day long > because I'm used to work in Console windows. Graphical stuff is nice, > but mostly degrades your performance because the most GUI makers don't > pay attention to keyboard shortcuts.
> This doesn't mean Pine is perfect - it has its shortcomings - but it > is the best Console based Mail User Agent I've come to see yet.
I concur with this. I use pine as my primary mail program on the Linux machine I inhabit at work *and* on my Windows XP laptop (under Cygwin). It is generally faster than the graphical clients I've played with and far faster than web mail clients. For example to delete a message I type 'd'. How much easier can it get?
I also like the fact that pine has good conformance to the RFCs. When a particular message has some strange issue more often than not pine handles it properly.
Also pine is plenty powerful enough for my current needs. It is true that I can't compose pretty HTML messages in a WYSIWYG manner. But then, I never did that when I was using graphical clients either. Pine is relatively immune to malicous email and that's a plus too. For example, I know it's not going to try to execute any JavaScript in an email message (due, say, to a misconfiguration) because it just can't. I see that as a feature. I don't really want people sending me JavaScript in email anyway.
There are some things that could be better. Pine's method of displaying complex attachments (nested multipart messages, for example) can be a little confusing at times. Also... is there a raw message view option? There have been a number of times when I've wanted to see the message exactly as it was received by SMTP so I can review the its MIME structure. I've resorted to looking at the mail folder file directly; pine always seems to want to summarize the structure for me.
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Big Brother wrote: > If they are who? I figure in the days of webmail, pop3, cell phones, black > berry and whatever many would not be using Pine anymore. I still use it at > times. Its very handy with old computers with dialup accounts in remote > locations. In these environments webmail is simply out of the question.
I use Pine and love it. I run PC-Pine on my home laptop and Pine in a BSD shell account. Both versions use the same remote config on an IMAP mailbox, so anything I do in one is immediately available in the other. I often write half an email in the shell account, postpone it and pick it up when I get home in PC-Pine. I also use both for newsgroup reading, attaching directly to the news server. I need to maintain two separate lists of subscribed groups but I only have a few so it's no big deal.
I'm now contemplating moving from Mozilla mail at work to PC-Pine as I'm accessing a shared IMAP box and a POP3 box. Mozilla's key advantage over PC-Pine is that I can highlight messages in different colours, which I use to prioritise them. If PC-Pine can't do this (and I've not checked) I'll have to stick with Mozilla.
Another great aspect of Pine is that this newsgroup is a wealth of info and any questions are almost always answered quickly by someone from the Pine team. You can't buy that level of support with some packages.
*** Chris Lawrence (banew...@holosys.co.uk.invalid.comm) wrote in...:
:) I'm now contemplating moving from Mozilla mail at work to PC-Pine as :) I'm accessing a shared IMAP box and a POP3 box. Mozilla's key :) advantage over PC-Pine is that I can highlight messages in different :) colours, which I use to prioritise them. If PC-Pine can't do this (and :) I've not checked) I'll have to stick with Mozilla.
Pine can do this, Press M S R I to set up how you want messages to be displayed. The configuration is similar to roles, or filters or scores, so if you know any of these, you will not have any problem doing this one either.
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > *** Chris Lawrence (banew...@holosys.co.uk.invalid.comm) wrote in...:
> :) I'm now contemplating moving from Mozilla mail at work to PC-Pine as > :) I'm accessing a shared IMAP box and a POP3 box. Mozilla's key > :) advantage over PC-Pine is that I can highlight messages in different > :) colours, which I use to prioritise them. If PC-Pine can't do this (and > :) I've not checked) I'll have to stick with Mozilla.
> Pine can do this, Press M S R I to set up how you want messages to be > displayed. The configuration is similar to roles, or filters or scores, so > if you know any of these, you will not have any problem doing this one > either.
Hi Eduardo, I just took a look at that feature and, unless I've missed something, it can't duplicate what I need to do. In Mozilla I can take any message entry in my inbox and press 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 and the line colour is changed to black, blue, red, etc. I use this to prioritise mail as it comes in. It looks like Pine can only do it according to a rule of some kind, which is no good for my needs at work.
*** Chris Lawrence (banew...@holosys.co.uk.invalid.comm) wrote in...:
:) Hi Eduardo, I just took a look at that feature and, unless I've missed :) something, it can't duplicate what I need to do. In Mozilla I can take :) any message entry in my inbox and press 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 and the :) line colour is changed to black, blue, red, etc. I use this to :) prioritise mail as it comes in. It looks like Pine can only do it :) according to a rule of some kind, which is no good for my needs at :) work.
Right, Pine can not change the priority of a message on the fly, but you can approximate it using a combination of keywords and scores. I will assume that the number 0, 1, ..., 6 mean something, where you only change from a lower number to a higher number,
First add the 7 keywords: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 to your list of keywords.
Set an indexcolor rule that works in term of keywords set Keywords: 0, paint a color appropriate to keyword 0. Keywords: 0,1 paint a color appropriate to keyword 1. Keywords: 0,1,2 paint a color appropriate to keyword 2. etc.
Draw back: you can not change from color 2 to color 1, unless you remove the keywork 2, etc.
Eduardo Chappa <cha...@math.washington.edu> wrote: > Right, Pine can not change the priority of a message on the fly, but > you can approximate it using a combination of keywords and scores.
I think I once tried the keyword stuff earlier, but found that my companies Exchange server which I access using IMAP refused the necessary change to the mail needed for assigning a key.
I still use pine, and I wouldn't trade it for any other client. Why? - Simple - Powerful - Usable anywhere I can ssh from (PDA, applet, real program, etc.) - Can be run inside a screen session so I can resume it quickly - Supports a lot (very good IMAP client, views/creates complicated MIME messaes nicely, etc.) - Fast (a few predictable keyboard commands per task)
What do I miss in other clients? - Closer integration with sending/recieving mail (e.g. tracking messages/threads across folders) - Fast searching a la Spotlight in Apple's Mail.app - Viewing attachments (occasional images) inline - Real OpenPGP support
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Big Brother wrote: > If they are who? I figure in the days of webmail, pop3, cell phones, black > berry and whatever many would not be using Pine anymore. I still use it at > times. Its very handy with old computers with dialup accounts in remote > locations. In these environments webmail is simply out of the question.
> John
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
> "The president didn't go into Iraq because the polls told him it was popular. > As a matter of fact, the polls said just the opposite. But leadership isn't > about polls. It's about making decisions you think are right and then > standing behind those decisions. That's why America is safer with George W. > Bush as president" (Arnold Schwarzenegger, 2004).
> Matthew 7:12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to > them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
> Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: If anyone would come after me, he > must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
*** Guido Ostkamp (bagueltig-bis-28-02-2...@nurfuerspam.de.comm) wrote in...:
:) Eduardo Chappa <cha...@math.washington.edu> wrote: :) > Right, Pine can not change the priority of a message on the fly, but :) > you can approximate it using a combination of keywords and scores. :) :) I think I once tried the keyword stuff earlier, but found that my :) companies Exchange server which I access using IMAP refused the :) necessary change to the mail needed for assigning a key. :) :) Do you know anything about this kind of problem?
No, other than Keywords are optional. I checked one Exchange server I can access and it does not support Keywords either, in fact, it does not support threads either, so Pine has to download all the information it needs to compute threads. Not nice :(.
Here in comp.mail.pine, Big Brother <jo...@sdf.lonestar.org> spake unto us, saying:
>If they are who?
I use it from time to time under OS/2, Windows, and Linux because it works well for the types of text e-mail I allow into my mailbox. :-)
At other times I use this client, Thunderbird, or a Horde-based web UI.
-- -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Mableton, GA USA OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it! The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > *** Chris Lawrence (banew...@holosys.co.uk.invalid.comm) wrote in...:
> :) Hi Eduardo, I just took a look at that feature and, unless I've missed > :) something, it can't duplicate what I need to do. In Mozilla I can take > :) any message entry in my inbox and press 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 and the > :) line colour is changed to black, blue, red, etc. I use this to > :) prioritise mail as it comes in. It looks like Pine can only do it > :) according to a rule of some kind, which is no good for my needs at > :) work.
> Right, Pine can not change the priority of a message on the fly, but you > can approximate it using a combination of keywords and scores. I will
[...]
Thanks Eduardo, in fact I use the colours to indicate mail priority, so for example red items are ones that I must deal with next, orange are awaiting additional information, standard black are done or not important and blue is information that I need to read but no action is needed. The use of colours is simply how I deal with those actions in Mozilla. I see that the use of keywords and perhaps some indexcolour filtering will enable to me to add similar functionality to Pine. I'll give it a blast and let you know how I get on.
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006, Chris Lawrence wrote: > Thanks Eduardo, in fact I use the colours to indicate mail priority, > so for example red items are ones that I must deal with next, orange > are awaiting additional information, standard black are done or not > important and blue is information that I need to read but no action > is needed. The use of colours is simply how I deal with those > actions in Mozilla.
Eduardo has discussed this more on the basis of the "priority" being a numeric quantity.
However, based on what you just said, it seems as if you may want to define custom flags (in so far as they aren't already defined - there is a standard flag "Important" already, which seems to match one of your requirements).
You probably want to set the configuration options "enable-flag-cmd" and "enable-flag-screen-implicitly" for convenience.
(We did establish, didn't we, that your IMAP server supports this?)
As already discussed, you can define index colouring rules to depict your flag settings. It's slightly confusing in as much as rules already exist for matching the pre-defined flags, but to match the custom flags it seems one has to put the name of the custom flag on the "Keyword pattern" line of the rule.
"Important" already does flag the index line with "*", but you can colour it red too if you're happier with that.
This is a pretty similar idea to Eduardo's, but it doesn't use numbers, and should be less confusing in regard to getting several of them set. Of course you'll need to organise the rules in an appropriate sequence so as to get the final colour you want if/when more than one flag is set.
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006, Alan J. Flavell wrote: > On Sun, 26 Feb 2006, Chris Lawrence wrote:
> > Thanks Eduardo, in fact I use the colours to indicate mail priority, > > so for example red items are ones that I must deal with next, orange > > are awaiting additional information, standard black are done or not > > important and blue is information that I need to read but no action > > is needed. The use of colours is simply how I deal with those > > actions in Mozilla.
> Eduardo has discussed this more on the basis of the "priority" being > a numeric quantity.
That's why I wanted to look at it in more details, because Eduardo's method doesn't seem to quite sit with my requirements (different notions of priority) but it has inspired me to find out more about custom flags.
> (We did establish, didn't we, that your IMAP server supports this?)
I do not use these priorities on the IMAP mailbox because any mail in there is high priority already. All other mail sits in my main mailbox and is pulled down from a POP3 server. I intend to use a maildrop to achieve this in PC-Pine, and am assuming that I can use custom flags on local mail. Again, I've not looked into any of these features yet.
> As already discussed, you can define index colouring rules to depict > your flag settings. It's slightly confusing in as much as rules > already exist for matching the pre-defined flags, but to match the > custom flags it seems one has to put the name of the custom flag on > the "Keyword pattern" line of the rule.
I'll bear that in mind when I'm testing it, thanks.
> "Important" already does flag the index line with "*", but you can > colour it red too if you're happier with that.
I'm not yet certain where Important comes from - whether it's a header set by the sender or a local concept. In any case I have lots of important mail which is not urgent and not a priority, so I don't wish to confuse the two.
> This is a pretty similar idea to Eduardo's, but it doesn't use > numbers, and should be less confusing in regard to getting several of > them set. Of course you'll need to organise the rules in an > appropriate sequence so as to get the final colour you want if/when > more than one flag is set.
> hope these ramblings are vaguely useful
Yes, they are more in line with what I had in mind after a brief play around yesterday. With Mozilla I simply make a judgement about the priority of a mail and press the appropriate number to change its colour. In an inbox with dozens of new mails per hour, it really helps to be able to visually pick out the ones I'm working on. There's nothing more formal that than going on really.
Eduardo Chappa <cha...@math.washington.edu> wrote: > No, other than Keywords are optional. I checked one Exchange server > I can access and it does not support Keywords either [...]
ok, too bad. I found some hints about 'stay-open' folders in the Pine manual.
Do you think it would be possible to define a Pine rule for such an Exchange-INBOX that automatically periodically moves all mail to a local 'received' mailfolder on arrival while permanently staying in this 'received' mailfolder all the time and deal with it as if it were the real inbox?
This local 'received' folder would then surely be able to deal with keywords.
