When I visit other networks (friends' homes and companies for work) I can check my mail with no issues at all. But when i try to send mail, sometimes changing the outgoing mail server is all that is required, and sometimes it gets downright Machiavellian. Some outgoing servers require authorization, for which my host is willing to give me their e-mail and password. Sometimes this works, but as in my current situation, it does not.
Currently, I'm visiting friends for an extended stay and I helped them order and install Verizon DSL. I have not succeeded in my attempts to send any mail from my computer through Verizon. I have 2 mail accounts (non-Verizon) but although I've tried changing the many parameters in Eudora's Settings that have to do with sending mail, nothing seems to satisfy the Gods of Outgoing Mail.
Each time Eudora goes through what looks like a mail-sending task, but when it's done, the messages remain queued in the Out Box window.
I've used outgoing.verizon.net as the SMTP server, and I've checked the Allow Authentication check box. I also tried the "Use submission port (587)" option, but no joy. I've created a new account account ("Verizon") with the e-mail address and password of my host's Verizon account, and chosen this personality as the SMTP Relay Personality (in the "Sending Mail" Settings panel). Still no joy.
What am I missing? Any suggestions?
PowerBook G3/400; OS X 10.3.9; Eudora 6.2.3 My mail accounts are at gmail and aim
> When I visit other networks (friends' homes and companies for work) I > can check my mail with no issues at all. But when i try to send mail, > sometimes changing the outgoing mail server is all that is required, > and sometimes it gets downright Machiavellian. Some outgoing servers > require authorization, for which my host is willing to give me their > e-mail and password. Sometimes this works, but as in my current > situation, it does not.
You have violated the trust of your friends and clients by usurping their username/password identities. NEVER DO THAT! Use a webmail client to connect to your own SMTP server. If your ISP or other mail provider doesn't offer a webmail interface, tell them to get one or get another service provider.
> When I visit other networks (friends' homes and companies for > work) I can check my mail with no issues at all. But when i try > to send mail, sometimes changing the outgoing mail server is > all that is required, and sometimes it gets downright > Machiavellian. Some outgoing servers require authorization, for > which my host is willing to give me their e-mail and password. > Sometimes this works, but as in my current situation, it does > not.
This is a common problem these days and what you need to do is get an email service provider that offers SMTP AUTH and then use that provider's outgoing SMTP server with *your* username & password in your Eudora outgoing SMTP specification. This should work regardless of who you are using as your internet *access* provider (Verizon, AOL, etc). I use tuffmail.com for this, but there are many email service providers who offer SMTP AUTH. Some are listed on my IMAP Service Providers page, which is here:
> This is a common problem these days and what you need to do is > get an email service provider that offers SMTP AUTH and then > use that provider's outgoing SMTP server with *your* username & > password in your Eudora outgoing SMTP specification. This > should work regardless of who you are using as your internet > *access* provider (Verizon, AOL, etc). I use tuffmail.com for > this, but there are many email service providers who offer SMTP > AUTH. Some are listed on my IMAP Service Providers page, which > is here:
PS - Since you mention that you have a Gmail account, you could use Gmail's outgoing SMTP server to send your email from Eudora. Make sure that you "validate" all your email addresses that you will use in a From: header. I have some details and links about this here:
John E. <incogn...@yahoo.com> wrote: >Each time Eudora goes through what looks like a mail-sending task, but when >it's done, the messages remain queued in the Out Box window.
I've noticed someone called Frank1492 has just posted a very similar message about Eudora not working with Verizon in comp.mail,eudora.mswindows. Assuming Frank1492 and JohnE are two seperate people, it sounds like a problem with Verizon. The replies to that other thread may also be applicable to you.
One possibility is that Verizon's outgoing SMTP could have been horribly slow. I use an SMTP sometimes which has response times ranging from two seconds to two minutes and Eudora does exactly what you describe when the remote server is overloaded with people mailing through it. However, it isn't a permanent error. if I check mail again then the mail usually goes through the second time.
> I've noticed someone called Frank1492 has just posted a very similar > message about Eudora not working with Verizon in > comp.mail,eudora.mswindows. Assuming Frank1492 and JohnE are two > seperate people, it sounds like a problem with Verizon. The replies to > that other thread may also be applicable to you.
Thanks. I'll look up this thread.
> One possibility is that Verizon's outgoing SMTP could have been > horribly slow. I use an SMTP sometimes which has response times > ranging from two seconds to two minutes and Eudora does exactly what > you describe when the remote server is overloaded with people mailing > through it. However, it isn't a permanent error. if I check mail again > then the mail usually goes through the second time.
A possibility. During my many attempts, I think I remember one just sitting there with the Status window showing "connecting to nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn" but not completing.
Don't you just love those replies that don't answer any question you pose, but instead, TELL YOU WHAT YOU SHOULD DO?
Patrick:
> You have violated the trust of your friends and clients by usurping their > username/password identities.
Usurping? How about "borrowing with permission"? I am using their username & password to authorize outgoing mail on THEIR ISP's SERVER. How is that different from my friend's use of it?
> NEVER DO THAT!
Hmm... Less caffeine?
> Use a webmail client to connect > to your own SMTP server. If your ISP or other mail provider doesn't offer a > webmail interface, tell them to get one or get another service provider.
Using Eudora as a mail client gives me many benefits (keeping outgoing copies organized by date, etc.) which are not available -- or are much more convoluted to achieve the same results -- with web mail interface. I can use the web interface to both my accounts, but I lose the orderliness of Eudora by doing so. I want to find out if I can send mail through Verizon, if at all possible. -- John English
> If you're using your own ISP's email system, you will be limited as has > been described earlier.
> Your best bet, if you want POP or IMAP email from anywhere
Getting my mail *from* my account is not the issue. I can get my mail anywhere, anytime. I'm spending time writing this thread because of *outgoing* mail issue I'm having with Verizon's SMTP server.
> regardless of > your internet connection, is a third party email system that's not > related to your ISP.
That's *all* I use: gmail, which is a "third party email system".
> Otherwise, when away from home you'll be limited to your ISP's webmail > or going through convolutions you've already described--which aren't > always available.
> For example, if you're out someplace with wireless access at a > restaurant, you'll run into the same issues.
When I'm traveling and I find myself accessing the Internet via, for example, Comcast, I can send mail via the Comcast SMTP server without a problem. It's just with specific ISPs, Verizon being my current nemesis.
> This is a security feature that your ISP has set up for its email. > They'll allow you to send email only if you're physically connected > to their system.
This statement is simply not true. Outgoing mail from my laptop never goes anywhere near gmail servers. It only goes through the current provider's SMTP server (ie, Verizon, in my current situation) and to its destination.
"My" ISP (at home) is SBC. I have no account there (I share my roommates' wireless network) and have no SBC e-mail address. I can send my gmail-labeled mail through SBC's SMTP server without authentication, without a problem. This setup is identical to my current setup: I am not a customer of the internet service I'm currently using (Verizon), yet I'm having trouble getting mail through their SMTP server. I don't know if this is intentional or just a bung-up. Because the results are different (SBC = yes; Verizon = no) with similar conditions (no account at either provider), I'm still scratching my head.
> But a dedicated email provider will give you authorization access such > that you can be connected anywhere and use them in the normal manner.
Sending mail has nothing *at all* to do with who my mail service is with (gmail), and *everything* to do with whose Internet service I'm currently using (Verizon). I just don't know if it's a Eudora settings issue or a Verizon security issue. Both should be fixable, though; the former with proper configuratioin of Eudora's Settings; the latter with my friend's Verizon authentication information.
In article <0001HW.C1621FA40007E1E2F0407...@news.readfreenews.net>, John E. <incogn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Don't you just love those replies that don't answer any question you pose, > but instead, TELL YOU WHAT YOU SHOULD DO?
> Patrick:
> > You have violated the trust of your friends and clients by usurping their > > username/password identities.
> Usurping? How about "borrowing with permission"? I am using their username & > password to authorize outgoing mail on THEIR ISP's SERVER. How is that > different from my friend's use of it?
It is probably a violation of their terms of service.
I think Patrick was way over the top in his rant, since any violation is not of your friends (who presumably trust you with good justification) but rather of ISP's like Verizon, who set such rules without the slightest intention of enforcing them consistently and really intend them to be ways to hold customers responsible for various abusive edge cases. The intent of the rule is not really its full scope, and as long the person sharing the authentication info with you understands that they are accepting responsibility for your actions, there's no harm.
(Unless you are truly evil, which is presumed false....:)
As to your original question... Verizon has a history of using all sorts of weird homegrown spam control mechanisms because they seem to consider anything used widely by other providers to be beneath them. I don't know what their current absurdity is, but for years they allowed relaying with no authentication as long as your mail's From header had a valid address in one of their customer domains. They also do a very unwise trick called "sender verification" that involves faking the process of sending mail to sender addresses synchronously with the acceptance of mail, and that can cause bad stalling as well as odd failures. If they try it against an address in a domain that has implemented verification in the same broken manner as VZ, the result is a long slow deadlock before failure. (Queue the Highlander...)
The best solution is indeed to find some access-neutral path for mail submission. GMail is a good choice if you don't want to run your own server just for mail because they do the most right thing: authentication over TLS on the mail submission port (587) that no rational access provider blocks.
In article <0001HW.C1622F78000B9789F0407...@news.readfreenews.net>, John E. <incogn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That's *all* I use: gmail, which is a "third party email system".
You should use them for outgoing mail as well. See their site for full instructions, but in short: they allow authenticated submission over port 587 with SSL/TLS. Eudora works just fine with them.
> > Otherwise, when away from home you'll be limited to your ISP's webmail > > or going through convolutions you've already described--which aren't > > always available.
> > For example, if you're out someplace with wireless access at a > > restaurant, you'll run into the same issues.
> When I'm traveling and I find myself accessing the Internet via, for example, > Comcast, I can send mail via the Comcast SMTP server without a problem. It's > just with specific ISPs, Verizon being my current nemesis.
That's because every ISP likes to do things their own way. Historically it was workable to just restrict access by IP address, and that is still good enough in most cases, but it is not a perfect solution. Various providers use different means to solve the edge cases.
> > This is a security feature that your ISP has set up for its email. > > They'll allow you to send email only if you're physically connected > > to their system.
> This statement is simply not true. Outgoing mail from my laptop never goes > anywhere near gmail servers. It only goes through the current provider's SMTP > server (ie, Verizon, in my current situation) and to its destination.
Actually, he could be right. Some providers are playing around with SPF and SenderID in ways that can make other mail server operators highly suspicious of mail claiming to be from an unfamiliar domain that is not coming from a published legit source of mail from that domain.
> "My" ISP (at home) is SBC. I have no account there (I share my roommates' > wireless network) and have no SBC e-mail address. I can send my gmail-labeled > mail through SBC's SMTP server without authentication, without a problem. > This setup is identical to my current setup: I am not a customer of the > internet service I'm currently using (Verizon), yet I'm having trouble > getting mail through their SMTP server. I don't know if this is intentional > or just a bung-up. Because the results are different (SBC = yes; Verizon = > no) with similar conditions (no account at either provider), I'm still > scratching my head.
SBC and VZ take different approaches to "We're The Phone Company, So We're Right"
There are at least 3 distinctly different submission paths for SBC DSL customers and people hitchhiking on those connections. Depoending on which server you use, you either need to be authenticated, using an SBC IP address, using the right From address, or 2 or more of those criteria.
> > But a dedicated email provider will give you authorization access such > > that you can be connected anywhere and use them in the normal manner.
> Sending mail has nothing *at all* to do with who my mail service is with > (gmail), and *everything* to do with whose Internet service I'm currently > using (Verizon). I just don't know if it's a Eudora settings issue or a > Verizon security issue. Both should be fixable, though; the former with > proper configuratioin of Eudora's Settings; the latter with my friend's > Verizon authentication information.
> Why can't I fix this?
VZ doesn't want what you're trying to do to work. They'd rather not have non-customers using their mail servers. They've expressed that in different ways over the years with off mail server behavior, but it has been a common thread: they don't support the use of non-VZ email addresses as senders in their outbound mail system.
> Further constructive suggestions welcome.
Use an access-neutral and sender-neutral submission path. Google offers that with GMail and you're already a GMail user. Set it up once, and it will work from anywhere.
>>> You have violated the trust of your friends and clients by usurping >>> their username/password identities.
>> Usurping? How about "borrowing with permission"? I am using their >> username & password to authorize outgoing mail on THEIR ISP's >> SERVER. How is that different from my friend's use of it?
> It is probably a violation of their terms of service.
It is a violation of the trust that a customer or friend has in one. Anytime in the future that those friends have a problem with their email, the OP will be suspect because he knows the username/password.
Any competent person would not need to know that information about others.
> Using Eudora as a mail client gives me many benefits (keeping outgoing copies > organized by date, etc.) which are not available -- or are much more > convoluted to achieve the same results -- with web mail interface. I can use > the web interface to both my accounts, but I lose the orderliness of Eudora > by doing so. I want to find out if I can send mail through Verizon, if at all > possible.
Others already gave the 'best' solution, i.e. use the SMTP server of a/your *M*SP (Mail Service Provider), in your case Gmail, with a port *other* than the standard port 25 (because many *I*SPs (i.e. those of your friends/customers) block outgoing port 25 (for servers other than the ISP's)).
*If* you don't want to do the above, or you can't get it to work etc., you can have a look at FreePOPs [1]. FreePOPs is a small SMTP (and POP) server which sits between your 'mailer'/MUA, i.e. Eudora in your case, and your webmail service, i.e. Gmail in your case. As the name implies, you can also POP incoming webmail with FreePOPs, but since you seem to have direct POP from Gmail working, you don't need that part.
John E. <incogn...@yahoo.com> writes: >Each time Eudora goes through what looks like a mail-sending task, but when >it's done, the messages remain queued in the Out Box window. >I've used outgoing.verizon.net as the SMTP server, and I've checked the Allow >Authentication check box. I also tried the "Use submission port (587)" >option, but no joy. I've created a new account account ("Verizon") with the >e-mail address and password of my host's Verizon account, and chosen this >personality as the SMTP Relay Personality (in the "Sending Mail" Settings >panel). Still no joy. >What am I missing? Any suggestions?
Similar issue:
I am helping someone on a Verizontal Business DSL account. They grab mail from a remote account, but can not use 587 to it for outgoing. [Braindead policies there..]
I've set up a secondary VZ email username/password, and put those into a Eudora 6.2.1 Relay Personality entry.
We have the incoming.verizon.net & outgoing.verizon.net set appropriately. [And BTW, outgoing. does NOT listen on 587; stoopid.]
It keeps working for a while, then demands the password again, as if Eudora forgot it or VZ decided it was wrong. Sometimes it takes several tries.
I had him set it to poll mail from that otherwise unused account every 10 minutes in case that would help, no joy.
But inbetween demanding the PW, it DOES send mail. And the login/pw work to send/receive webmail with whomever VZ has contracted that out to [?mailserv.com maybe?].
[Side issue -- another new secondary account we tried first would never accept mail for outgoing, but did work with webmail. WTH, over?]
Oh, and a Windoze Eudora box on the same LAN has no problems like this.
Any ideas what to check when I get there?
-- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8...@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
