annotate
p.spa...@gmail.com
does anybody know if there are any (preferably open source) imap
server that implements ANNOTATE Extension? I know lots support
ANNOTATEMORE, but the latter does not support annotation on single
email/message, which is what i need.
Or else, any other way to store little informations (a few kb) on a
message without modify it? i could add headers but in case of signed
or crypted email it would not work properly.
Thank you.
regards
Mark Crispin
> does anybody know if there are any (preferably open source) imap
> server that implements ANNOTATE Extension?
I don't know if you will ever see widespread implementation of ANNOTATE or
ANNOTATEMORE (the latter has been renamed METADATA). ANNOTATE's
functional set went off the deep end early on, and most of the people who
actually implement software gave up on it. ANNOTATEMORE came about as an
effort to salvage some level of functionality, although it's a mailbox
metadata extension and not a message annotation (hence the change in
name).
I expect to implement METADATA in UW imapd, at least for the mix format,
at some point if/when there is significant demand for it. Right now,
there isn't. ANNOTATE isn't out of the question either, but less likely.
The majority of IMAP clients don't even use the capabilities provided in
the base IMAP specification; instead, they treat IMAP as a glorified POP3.
It's doubtful that many clients will ever use something as exotic as
ANNOTATE.
-- Mark --
http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
kael
> does anybody know if there are any (preferably open source) imap
> server that implements ANNOTATE Extension?
There's Archiveopteryx
<http://www.archiveopteryx.org/imap.html#extensions> which seems to be
the only IMAP server to provide ANNOTATE.
--
kael
p.spa...@gmail.com
Thank you kael, I will take a look.
Mark: thanks for the information. Personally, as messaging is evolving
and expanding, there is need for developers that relay on such systems
to "extend" and/or "customize" functionalities. Annotate ext. is
perfect for that. I would vote for it, and I believe lots of mobile
messaging developers will as well. I would contribute in the
development too.
NM Public
>> p.spadaf...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> does anybody know if there are any (preferably open source) imap
>>> server that implements ANNOTATE Extension?
>
> evolving and expanding, there is need for developers that relay
> on such systems to "extend" and/or "customize" functionalities.
> Annotate ext. is perfect for that. I would vote for it, and I
> believe lots of mobile messaging developers will as well. I
> would contribute in the development too.
I would vote for it too and I'm sure that Gmail (which you're
using), Yahoo, and Microsoft will eventually support annotating
messages. And then it will be even harder to resist being
assimilated! [*]
One option now is to use LuxSci.com as your IMAP service
provider. They support annotations via editing the message body
(which I know you don't want to do). Details are here:
<http://luxsci.com/extranet/info/notes.html>
You can configure the annotation to be at either the top or the
bottom of the message.
Hope this helps,
Nancy
[*] resisting assimilation into the proprietary world of email,
but it's getting harder everyday
Sam
> Sur 2007-07-20, p.spa...@gmail.com e'crit:
>>> p.spadaf...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> does anybody know if there are any (preferably open source) imap
>>>> server that implements ANNOTATE Extension?
>>
>> Mark: thanks for the information. Personally, as messaging is
>> evolving and expanding, there is need for developers that relay
>> on such systems to "extend" and/or "customize" functionalities.
>> Annotate ext. is perfect for that. I would vote for it, and I
>> believe lots of mobile messaging developers will as well. I
>> would contribute in the development too.
>
> I would vote for it too and I'm sure that Gmail (which you're
> using), Yahoo, and Microsoft will eventually support annotating
> messages. And then it will be even harder to resist being
> assimilated! [*]
Wake me up when Gmail, Yahoo, or Microsoft, offer IMAP services.
kael
> Wake me up when Gmail, Yahoo, or Microsoft, offer IMAP services.
$ telnet imap.apple.mail.yahoo.com 143
Trying 206.190.53.56...
Connected to imap.apple.mail.yahoo.com (206.190.53.56).
Escape character is '^]'.
* OK IMAP4rev1 server ready (3.5.14)
01 capability
* CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 LOGIN-REFERRALS AUTH=XYMCOOKIE AUTH=XYMCOOKIEB64
AUTH=XYMPKI ID
01 OK CAPABILITY completed
(It's been there for several months
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.mail.imap/msg/619f264ae782f322>)
And there's even a mysterious notification mechanism - the iPhone
doesn't support IDLE. Only Yahoo iPhone accounts have the privilege to
get mail notifications, it EXPUNGEs only once a day, etc.
Don't you read the news ? Haven't you heard of the /iPhone P-IMAP/ ? :)
And it's rumored that Google has its internal IMAP server, which seems
very probable considering Marissa Mayer uses Pine.
I'd bet IMAP is going to be popular - and it is going to be more than
/15 minutes of fame/.
But before ANNOTATE is supported by mail providers, it would require to
be deployed. Do you plan to implement ANNOTATE ?
--
kael
Sam
> Sam wrote:
>> Wake me up when Gmail, Yahoo, or Microsoft, offer IMAP services.
>
> $ telnet imap.apple.mail.yahoo.com 143
> Trying 206.190.53.56...
> Connected to imap.apple.mail.yahoo.com (206.190.53.56).
> Escape character is '^]'.
> * OK IMAP4rev1 server ready (3.5.14)
> 01 capability
> * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 LOGIN-REFERRALS AUTH=XYMCOOKIE AUTH=XYMCOOKIEB64
> AUTH=XYMPKI ID
> 01 OK CAPABILITY completed
>
> (It's been there for several months
> <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.mail.imap/msg/619f264ae782f322>)
I'm sure that many mail providers offer IMAP for private, vanity, paid
accounts.
Besides, looks like you can't log in to the above beast using any IMAP
client, it supports some private authentication mechanism and it's very
likely that LOGIN is disabled.
> And there's even a mysterious notification mechanism - the iPhone
> doesn't support IDLE. Only Yahoo iPhone accounts have the privilege to
> get mail notifications, it EXPUNGEs only once a day, etc.
>
> Don't you read the news ? Haven't you heard of the /iPhone P-IMAP/ ? :)
"P-IMAP" is not the same thing as "IMAP".
> And it's rumored that Google has its internal IMAP server, which seems
> very probable considering Marissa Mayer uses Pine.
>
> I'd bet IMAP is going to be popular - and it is going to be more than
> /15 minutes of fame/.
"Going to be"?
> But before ANNOTATE is supported by mail providers, it would require to
> be deployed. Do you plan to implement ANNOTATE ?
Only if I either see some real demand for it -- more than just an occasional
blip on a barely-alive newsfroup -- or if I suddenly find that I have
nothing better to do.
Considering that most clients have only barely heard of NAMESPACE, have only
heard rumors of custom flags, most have never heard of ACLs, and most have
no idea what to do with UIDPLUS, I think it's going to be a long time before
ANNOTATE is next on the list.
NM Public
> NM Public writes:
>
>> I would vote for it too and I'm sure that Gmail (which you're
>> using), Yahoo, and Microsoft will eventually support
>> annotating messages. And then it will be even harder to resist
>> being assimilated! [*]
>
> Wake me up when Gmail, Yahoo, or Microsoft, offer IMAP
> services.
I did not say GYM would support IMAP and my guess is that they
will not. My prediction is that they will support annotating
messages and that will be another step towards the death of IMAP.
It will certainly be another step towards me giving up on IMAP.
Nancy
very close to giving up on IMAP right now
--
Nancy McGough
Infinite Ink: <http://www.ii.com/>
Bookmarks & Blog: <http://deflexion.com/>
kael
> Besides, looks like you can't log in to the above beast using any IMAP
> client, it supports some private authentication mechanism and it's very
> likely that LOGIN is disabled.
And this private authentication mechanism is not very secured
<http://blog.dave.cridland.net/?p=32>.
> "P-IMAP" is not the same thing as "IMAP".
Yeah, I know ; I was repeating the buzzword, though.
>> I'd bet IMAP is going to be popular - and it is going to be more than
>> /15 minutes of fame/.
>
> "Going to be"?
Well, "according to mobile industry analyst firm Visiongain, the market
for consumer mobile email is set to grow dramatically from 8 million in
2007 to 36 million in 2008 and 184 million consumer mobile email
accounts anticipated by 2011" <http://www.spweekly.com/issue926.pdf>. ;)
Perhaps, POP is finally going to be abandoned in favor of a general use
of IMAP, and MUAs may become more IMAP compliant.
> Considering that most clients have only barely heard of NAMESPACE, have
> only heard rumors of custom flags, most have never heard of ACLs, and
> most have no idea what to do with UIDPLUS, I think it's going to be a
> long time before ANNOTATE is next on the list.
I'm also not very optimistic regarding ANNOTATE. However, if client
developers discovered it amongst server capabilities, it could inspire
them to implement it on their client (despite its complexity).
--
kael
kael
> very close to giving up on IMAP right now
Why ?
What would replace it ?
--
kael
Sam
>>> I'd bet IMAP is going to be popular - and it is going to be more than
>>> /15 minutes of fame/.
>>
>> "Going to be"?
>
> Well, "according to mobile industry analyst firm Visiongain, the market
A.k.a. one guy with a fax machine.
> for consumer mobile email is set to grow dramatically from 8 million in
> 2007 to 36 million in 2008 and 184 million consumer mobile email
> accounts anticipated by 2011" <http://www.spweekly.com/issue926.pdf>. ;)
Right.
> Perhaps, POP is finally going to be abandoned in favor of a general use
> of IMAP, and MUAs may become more IMAP compliant.
On the contrary. Given the relative complexity of IMAP, I'd think that POP3
would be the preferred lightweight choice for mobile E-mail.
> I'm also not very optimistic regarding ANNOTATE. However, if client
> developers discovered it amongst server capabilities, it could inspire
> them to implement it on their client (despite its complexity).
Client developers are not going to be inspired to do anything until the
/majority/ of servers support it. Because if they implement it, and they
connect to a server that doesn't implement it, they have to fall back to
plan B, or offer reduced functionality in their client. They'll basically
have to implement the entire extension on the client side. And as long as
they have to implement it, why even bother with the server, and just have a
consistent client-side implementation that works with any server, without
worrying about any individual server-specific behavior?
Or, do you want to tell your customer -- sorry, you can't use this
newfangled feature because it's not supported by your IMAP server. The
customer is going to interpret it as a defect in the client, not the server,
and the client developers know that.
For /any/ IMAP extension to take hold, these days, it must be rather
straightforward and not require a significant amount of server-side
development, otherwise there's not much upside to implementing. And that's
ain't ANNOTATE.
NM Public
Maybe something proprietary but with an "open API", or maybe APP
(Atom Publishing Protocol), or maybe something that's secret now,
but will soon explode into the messaging world. The likely
suspect is Google, but it could come from anywhere.
Why am I close to giving up? Because server-side storage and
tagging and annotating and filtering are obvious and have been
obvious for at least 10 years and it just isn't happening. If you
think it is, tell me the clients that support these using
standard protocols:
server-side storage
server-side tagging
server-side annotation
server-side filtering
The only hope I know of is/was Mulberry and that doesn't seem to
be moving very much these days, despite it's open sourceness.
Pine/Alpine has a really sucky user interface when it comes to
tagging and, as Mark said, message annotation isn't coming soon.
Alpine invented it's own sucky filtering language instead of
using Sieve.
That's why I'm giving up.
Nancy
p.spa...@gmail.com
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH RIGHT ARE YOU?
:-)
>
> For /any/ IMAP extension to take hold, these days, it must be rather
> straightforward and not require a significant amount of server-side
> development, otherwise there's not much upside to implementing. And that's
> ain't ANNOTATE.
>
> application_pgp-signature_part
> 1KDownload
p.spa...@gmail.com
oracle collaboration suite uses it:
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B25553_01/mail.1012/b25459/ad_email_java.htm