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Wiki search problems
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stevel
Jun 13, 2019, 6:38:15 AM6/13/19
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The Wiki search is being updated and the search feature may have problems while the changes are being made. If you get no results for a search, you could try searching manually via your favourite search engine, by adding "site:wiki.tcl-lang.org" to the end of your search.
Read on if you'd like some background ...
Originally the new wiki search used Google. This gave good results with good presentation and minimal load on the server. Prior to going live with the new wiki the search engine was switched to DuckDuckGo, in response to some concerns from a few people about privacy. DuckDuckGo used to give good results, but in the last month something has changed and the results now aren't good enough.
One member of the Tcl community suggested Startpage as an alternative - https://startpage.com. Startpage is an anonymising proxy in front of Google, and has the benefit of the Google-quality results with privacy. I'm in the process of converting the wiki search to use it.
Thanks for your patience during the transition.
Steve
Read on if you'd like some background ...
Originally the new wiki search used Google. This gave good results with good presentation and minimal load on the server. Prior to going live with the new wiki the search engine was switched to DuckDuckGo, in response to some concerns from a few people about privacy. DuckDuckGo used to give good results, but in the last month something has changed and the results now aren't good enough.
One member of the Tcl community suggested Startpage as an alternative - https://startpage.com. Startpage is an anonymising proxy in front of Google, and has the benefit of the Google-quality results with privacy. I'm in the process of converting the wiki search to use it.
Thanks for your patience during the transition.
Steve
Mark Garvey
Aug 23, 2019, 10:04:32 AM8/23/19
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"Advocacy" came up with nothing on DuckDuckGo, Bing and Startpage.
"Tcl Advocacy" is a page in the wiki.
fr
Aug 23, 2019, 1:07:32 PM8/23/19
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The incremental index uses permutation of page title words. For "Advocacy" just start with a lowercase a or t.
The builtin search in Jean Claude Wippler's Wiki (before 2010) was amazingly fast.
Are snapshots available of the current wiki, which nowadays is stored in Sqlite afaik?
best regards Roland Frank
fr
Aug 26, 2019, 7:28:36 AM8/26/19
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//wiki.tcl-lang.org/robots.txt lists
Sitemap: http://nikit.tcl.tk/sitemap.xml
This url is redirected to https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/sitemap.xml
and shows
Page not found
Page 'sitemap.xml' could not be found.
How do search engines get access actually?
best regards
Roland Frank
stevel
Aug 26, 2019, 8:25:33 PM8/26/19
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> How do search engines get access actually?
Longer term, there are plans for a dual internal / external search facility that gives the best of both worlds (or, depending on your point of view, a chip on each shoulder).
Mark Garvey
Aug 27, 2019, 3:20:40 AM8/27/19
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On 23/08/2019 19:07, fr wrote:
> Jean Claude Wippler's Wiki
Yes I remember that well. Is there zero chance of getting back to that?
> Jean Claude Wippler's Wiki
There is a whole category on Advocacy but it will never be found either.
Are casual users not supposed to find such pages?
https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/category wont deliver a thing? Progress!
Why is there not even a page with links to available categories?
Web search engines are good but if something internal was available, it
should be much better.
Is the Wiki in that old form still available somewhere?
The http://notab.tk/ida.htm page seems to lead to the current wiki.
Besides that I still see strange unnecessary changes being made:
Take the apply page - recently edited from
[AMG]: Normal [proc]s can call themselves without difficulty since they
are named entities.
to
AMG: Normal command%|$commands can call themselves without difficulty
since they are named entities
What could the point of such a clumsy change possibly be?
I guess part of the problem with its current form is that anyone can
edit it however they like?!
The wiki used to be one of the best advertisments for Tcl. Now? If I was
asked for an opinion I'd say it was purposely wrecked.
fr
Aug 27, 2019, 5:22:25 AM8/27/19
to
I remember a page named "Category Category", that I used for browsing the wiki.
https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/Category+Category
https://wookie.tcl-lang.org startpage has navigation links on the left with keyword advocacy, however I was not able to proceed to Category+Category, nor was I able to open this page from http://notab.tk/ida.htm -missing link but useless #51 text in table - at least it was possible to find the title "category category".
At all notab.tk is broken concerning user-experience, especially on mobile devices and more. What I had in mind was an typo-proof selection interface with auto-completion. Mobile users might be interested in http://notab.tk/taifon.
Today's wiki is still compatible with the original page indices.
Page https://wiki.tcl.tk/27880 is one with a high index, so at least 27880 pages exist, deleted pages included.
Back to "Category+Category":
The third link "manually maintained list" - originally possibly useful - is broken (0.0.8.160/#..)
My impression in general concerning the wiki is, that for newcomers access to code snippets works now and mobile devices are targetted too.
Roland Frank
Rich
Aug 27, 2019, 6:42:14 AM8/27/19
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Mark Garvey <mark....@hotmail.de> wrote:
> On 23/08/2019 19:07, fr wrote:
>> Jean Claude Wippler's Wiki
> Yes I remember that well. Is there zero chance of getting back to that?
> There is a whole category on Advocacy but it will never be found either.
> Are casual users not supposed to find such pages?
> https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/category wont deliver a thing? Progress!
> Why is there not even a page with links to available categories?
>
> Web search engines are good but if something internal was available, it
> should be much better.
> Is the Wiki in that old form still available somewhere?
> The http://notab.tk/ida.htm page seems to lead to the current wiki.
>
> Besides that I still see strange unnecessary changes being made:
>
> Take the apply page - recently edited from
>
> [AMG]: Normal [proc]s can call themselves without difficulty since they
> are named entities.
>
> to
>
> AMG: Normal command%|$commands can call themselves without difficulty
> since they are named entities
>
> What could the point of such a clumsy change possibly be?
> I guess part of the problem with its current form is that anyone can
> edit it however they like?!
The problem with that change, if you check the history, is that it was
> On 23/08/2019 19:07, fr wrote:
>> Jean Claude Wippler's Wiki
> Yes I remember that well. Is there zero chance of getting back to that?
> There is a whole category on Advocacy but it will never be found either.
> Are casual users not supposed to find such pages?
> https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/category wont deliver a thing? Progress!
> Why is there not even a page with links to available categories?
>
> Web search engines are good but if something internal was available, it
> should be much better.
> Is the Wiki in that old form still available somewhere?
> The http://notab.tk/ida.htm page seems to lead to the current wiki.
>
> Besides that I still see strange unnecessary changes being made:
>
> Take the apply page - recently edited from
>
> [AMG]: Normal [proc]s can call themselves without difficulty since they
> are named entities.
>
> to
>
> AMG: Normal command%|$commands can call themselves without difficulty
> since they are named entities
>
> What could the point of such a clumsy change possibly be?
> I guess part of the problem with its current form is that anyone can
> edit it however they like?!
made by pooryorick:
57 | 2019-08-23 17:57:27 | pooryorick | no | no | 57 | 57
> The wiki used to be one of the best advertisments for Tcl. Now? If
> I was asked for an opinion I'd say it was purposely wrecked.
consistently gone downhill with each successive edit.
fr
Aug 27, 2019, 9:04:14 AM8/27/19
to
Can a sitemap with line content as below, serve accessibility of all pages in one place ,admittedly about 20000 lines, when xml markup is purposely omitted, like
url/5409#Pool (Kupries)
The number is the db-internal index to the page title and for now still accessible with url wiki.tcl.tk. I suppose the current wiki is organized in similar manner.
I am not involved in search engine strategies. This just looks like a simple solution to have a searchable file even in the browser, as the part behind "#" is probably not relevant to search engines but readable by human users.
Thank you for your efforts to improve the Wiki.
Roland Frank
Mark Garvey
Aug 28, 2019, 5:11:16 AM8/28/19
to
On 27/08/2019 09:20, Mark Garvey wrote:
> Why is there not even a page with links to available categories?
Just in case, I found this way of finding all available categories:
> Why is there not even a page with links to available categories?
https://wiki.tcl-lang.org/page/Category+Category
Then click on the Page->References menu at the top.
That gets to an automatically generated list of available categories as
described on the above page itself.
stevel
Aug 29, 2019, 1:18:01 AM8/29/19
to
On Tuesday, 27 August 2019 08:25:33 UTC+8, stevel wrote:
> > How do search engines get access actually?
>
> Walking the hierarchy, but a sitemap.xml would make that easier (and give better results).
I have updated the robots.txt and added an auto-generated sitemap.xml. Hopefully this will improve the search results.
> > How do search engines get access actually?
>
> Walking the hierarchy, but a sitemap.xml would make that easier (and give better results).
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