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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: jaro...@gmail.com
Date: 15 May 2006 04:47:10 -0700
Local: Mon, May 15 2006 7:47 am
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
It has nothing to do with making more money. Cincom ships Store with
Cincom Smalltalk, and we don't charge extra for it. It's an additional engineering project that we do (i.e., a cost center) - not a profit point. Why do we do it then, instead of "just" using Envy? Back in 2001, IBM Which is when we stopped reselling ENVY for VW. What people forget is If you think ENVY ought to be available for Smalltalks other than You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: "Geoff" <nos...@nospam.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 15:25:12 GMT
Local: Mon, May 15 2006 11:25 am
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
Yes, I Know and those decisions, I put under 'politics'. I messed up by
including vw in that category. I was referring more to digitalk and team/v. However, all politics aside, no one disputes that envy is the premier vc -g You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: Ian Upright <ian-n...@upright.net>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 02:33:47 GMT
Local: Mon, May 15 2006 10:33 pm
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
I've used either Envy, Store, and Team/V, for over 10 years.. They each
have their own strengths and weaknesses. There are things I really like about Envy, and things I really hate about it. The biggest problems with Envy are: There are things about VW Store I don't like and some features that Envy had All in all though, I find Store to be pretty competitive and in some ways Ian "Geoff" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote: --- >Yes, I Know and those decisions, I put under 'politics'. I messed up by >including vw in that category. I was referring more to digitalk and team/v. >However, all politics aside, no one disputes that envy is the premier vc >-g http://www.upright.net/ian/ You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: "Chronos" <alan.love...@gmail.com>
Date: 15 May 2006 20:12:38 -0700
Local: Mon, May 15 2006 11:12 pm
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
Ian: "All in all though, I find Store to be pretty competitive and in
some ways even better than Envy." Seconded. You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: "Geoff" <nos...@nospam.com>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 06:22:39 GMT
Local: Tues, May 16 2006 2:22 am
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
> Team/V though, is an abomination that deserves to rest in peace. At ksc, some customers gave me 'what for', big time, because I liked envy but did not care for team/v. -g You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: Hans-Martin Mosner <h...@heeg.de>
Date: 15 May 2006 14:35:21 GMT
Local: Mon, May 15 2006 10:35 am
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
"Geoff" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote: Jim Robertson already answered that point regarding politics. > Worth mentioning envy again, that was pretty much the standard for all the > smalltalks, digitalk, visual age, and visual works (dolphin was not around > back then). > I've never had a problem with envy and found it to be that the mercedes of I might add that although ENVY has a lot of very good features, some things are really getting in the way: - there's no really good support for offline development. It's possible to have a file-based repository, but synchronizing that with a server-based repository is not well supported. And working over a LAN connection is pretty awful as well. Store has somewhat better support for this, I think. - The manager/owner/developer restrictions force you to adopt a very controlled way of working. If you don't like that (because your project favors collective code ownership) you switch identities a lot to get things done (which often leads to incorrect developer attributions because you forget to switch back). I would rather do away with the class ownership concept and instead allow any member of the group to release a class version. Cheers, You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: "Geoff" <nos...@nospam.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 15:30:08 GMT
Local: Mon, May 15 2006 11:30 am
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
OTI has a recommended way of using envy but if you want to use it
differently, then it is not a problem, you can switch identities or make library supervisor the owner. I think va/assist has a super user mode as well which is now included with smalltalk 7.0. At IBM we had people working from India and also people using local -g You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: jaro...@gmail.com
Date: 15 May 2006 09:01:38 -0700
Local: Mon, May 15 2006 12:01 pm
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
I wasn't at Digitalk when they decided to release Team/V, but I suspect
it had more to do with appealing to people with "traditional" source control systems than with politics. Recall that Team/V used PVCS on the back end, which tore down an argument that could be raised against Smalltalk. You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: "Geoff" <nos...@nospam.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 18:09:40 GMT
Local: Mon, May 15 2006 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
At funb, when they did a build using team/v, they had to file in all the
source code into a virgin image, in the correct order, then package, and if a file-in failed, they had to start over. A several day process. So, some of the stuff out there, what people believe, truly is silly. -g You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: John Sellers <jsellers_nos...@sellers.com>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 18:04:13 GMT
Local: Tues, May 16 2006 2:04 pm
Subject: Re: Version control systems for Smalltalk?
jaro...@gmail.com wrote: Appealing to people with "Traditional" source control systems IS > I wasn't at Digitalk when they decided to release Team/V, but I suspect > it had more to do with appealing to people with "traditional" source > control systems than with politics. Recall that Team/V used PVCS on > the back end, which tore down an argument that could be raised against > Smalltalk. politics, depending on what the meaning of IS is. You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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