python admin abuse complaint

[Xah Lee]

This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
freenode.net.

Here's a log:

2010-02-02

(12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL | http://pound-python.org/
| It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
http://paste.pocoo.org/ | Tutorial: http://docs.python.org/tut/ | FAQ:
http://effbot.org/pyfaq/ | New Programmer? Read http://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy
| #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
#python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
offtopic
(12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
actually.
(12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
(12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
(12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
(12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
etc) right is quite tricky
(12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just
wondering whats up with the python verison :D
(12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
(12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)

---------------

I have not been using irc for the past about 2 year. (possibly perhaps
2 times in i think #web channel) In particular, i have not been in in
freenode.net's #python channel. I don't know who is dash.

Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

[Jonathan Gardner]

On Feb 2, 12:40 pm, Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
>

I think you mean hash.clear() instead of hash.clean()

The answer is that "hash = {}" will create a new dict and assign it to
"hash", while "hash.clear()" simply guts the dict that "hash" is
pointing to.

In the end, both will result in "has" pointing to an empty dict.

However, if you had something else pointing to what "hash" was
pointing to, they will no longer be pointing to the same, empty hash
after "hash = {}" is run.

>>> a = b = {1:2}
>>> a
{1: 2}
>>> b
{1: 2}
>>> a.clear()
>>> a
{}
>>> b
{}
>>> a = b = {1:2}
>>> a = {}
>>> a
{}
>>> b
{1: 2}

[Steve Holden, Chairman, PSF]

Frankly, Xah Lee, I find it ironic that you see fit to complain about
abuse of the IRC channel when you have apparently felt free to ignore
the many complaints about your behavior on this and other newsgroups
over many years.

"As ye sew, so shall ye reap". I imagine that your reputation has
preceded you, and that dash (whom I *do* know) is simply looking to keep
a well-known nuisance from bothering the rest of the users on the channel.

For the present my sympathies are all with him. The PSF will, however,
investigate this issue and I will report back to you off-list in due course.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden Chairman, Python Software Foundation
The Python Community Conference http://python.org/psf/
PyCon 2010 Atlanta Feb 19-21 http://us.pycon.org/
Watch PyCon on video now! http://pycon.blip.tv/

[John Bokma]

Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> writes:

> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)

Oh noes, someone is harrassing poor Xah the Usenet spammer. You have
been and still are a major pain in the ass to a lot of Usenet users, and
still surprised that you're not making friends. I mean, what did you
want to do on IRC? Copy paste line by line one of your "fine" articles,
followed by a link to your site. And what the hell were you doing,
asking a Python question in #python? Shouldn't that be asked the Xah way
in #perl or #lisp?

--
John Bokma j3b

Hacking & Hiking in Mexico - http://johnbokma.com/
http://castleamber.com/ - Perl & Python Development

[Stephen Thorne]

On Feb 3, 6:40 am, Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a short complaint on adminabuseon #pythonircchannel on

> freenode.net.
>
> Here's a log:
>
> 2010-02-02
>

> (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #pythonis: NO LOL |http://pound-python.org/
> | It's too early to usePython3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:http://paste.pocoo.org/| Tutorial:http://docs.python.org/tut/| FAQ:http://effbot.org/pyfaq/| New Programmer? Readhttp://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy

> | #python.web #wsgi #python-fr #python.de #python-es #python.tw
> #python.pl #python-br #python-jp #python-nl #python-ir #python-
> offtopic
> (12:12:00 PM) _habnabit: pr100, I replaced it with str.startswith,
> actually.
> (12:12:01 PM) jarray52: Jarray
> (12:12:11 PM) _habnabit: jarray52, yes, you are.
> (12:12:16 PM) xahlee: is hash={} and hash.clean() identical?
> (12:12:18 PM) eggy_: OhnoesRaptor: getting sockets (and event loops
> etc) right is quite tricky
> (12:12:21 PM) OhnoesRaptor: I know how to do sockets right eggy, just

> wondering whats up with thepythonverison :D

> (12:12:24 PM) mode (+o dash) by ChanServ
> (12:12:30 PM) You have been kicked by dash: (No.)

G'day,

My name is Stephen Thorne, and my nick on #python is Jerub. dash and I
are both ops on the #python IRC channel.

According to my logs the most recent time I have banned you from
#python was the 16th of June, 2006, when I established that you were
the same troll that posts to this usenet group.

I have no interest in letting you troll #python, and thoroughly
approve of dash's responsible behaviour as a joint custodian of the
#python irc channel. Maintaining a high signal to noise ratio is
difficult, and we appreciate that in this particular case you have
acknowledged that you were made unwelcome in our IRC community and
will endeavour to avoid it in future.

Regards,
Stephen Thorne

[Xah Lee]

2010-02-04

Hi Steve,

thank you for the reply.

I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
made is all i asked for.

I have a lot things to say about the various political struggle that
one sees everyday in just about every communication channels that are
predominantly young male groups, of relatively few people, in online
posting forums, ircs, online massive multiplayer games... as you may
know, the quarrels, accusations, bans, happen every hour.

But to be concrete and constructive, i would suggest that in
freenode's python irc channel:

• when a admin bans someone, the admin needs to tell the person the
reason, and not in some rude way. (a single sentence will do.)

• The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
e.g. “repeatedly asking same question”, “continously raising
controversial issues”, “refused to use paste bin when requested” will
do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
“ban'd for trolling”, “annoying others”, are not a meaningful reason.)

• additionally, i would suggest that bans be temporary. The following
period seems a good start: 5 min ban, 1 hour ban, 1 day ban, 1 week
ban, 1 month ban. Each can be executed according to severity per the
admin's judgement. There should be no permanent ban, unless it's
machine generated commercial spam.

Thank you.

For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
be found on my website, search for “ban xah lee”.

Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

On Feb 2, 2:23 pm, "Steve Holden, Chairman, PSF" <chair...@python.org>
wrote:

> Xah Lee wrote:
> > This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
> > freenode.net.
>
> > Here's a log:
>
> > 2010-02-02
>
> > (12:11:57 PM) The topic for #python is: NO LOL |http://pound-python.org/
> > | It's too early to use Python 3.x | Pasting > 3 lines? Pastebin:
> >http://paste.pocoo.org/| Tutorial:http://docs.python.org/tut/| FAQ:

> >http://effbot.org/pyfaq/| New Programmer? Readhttp://tinyurl.com/thinkcspy

[Steve Holden]

Xah Lee wrote:
> 2010-02-04
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> thank you for the reply.
>
> I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
> newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
> made is all i asked for.
>

OK, in that case I won't trouble anyone else about it.

> I have a lot things to say about the various political struggle that
> one sees everyday in just about every communication channels that are
> predominantly young male groups, of relatively few people, in online
> posting forums, ircs, online massive multiplayer games... as you may
> know, the quarrels, accusations, bans, happen every hour.
>

I understand that the diversity of the various channels available to
Python users (and indeed of the Python community overall) is not as high
as it could be. This does from time to time lead to inappropriate behaviors.

I suspect dash kicked you off #python simply because of the reputation
you have established on comp.lang.python, but of course I cannot speak
for him.

> But to be concrete and constructive, i would suggest that in
> freenode's python irc channel:
>
> • when a admin bans someone, the admin needs to tell the person the
> reason, and not in some rude way. (a single sentence will do.)
>

That would, I agree, be appropriate.

> • The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
> name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
> means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
> particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
> the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
> with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
> e.g. “repeatedly asking same question”, “continously raising
> controversial issues”, “refused to use paste bin when requested” will
> do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
> “ban'd for trolling”, “annoying others”, are not a meaningful reason.)
>

This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
case your suggestions above seem reasonable).

> • additionally, i would suggest that bans be temporary. The following
> period seems a good start: 5 min ban, 1 hour ban, 1 day ban, 1 week
> ban, 1 month ban. Each can be executed according to severity per the
> admin's judgement. There should be no permanent ban, unless it's
> machine generated commercial spam.
>

Again, this is probably over-formal for the current levels of banning,
but a reasonable idea in principle.

> Thank you.
>
> For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
> written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
> detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
> freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
> be found on my website, search for “ban xah lee”.
>

Xah, your opinions are I think pretty well-known around here. I
understand that you consider yourself an authority on netiquette, but as
I mentioned in my last response I have personally observed you on many
occasions indulging in inappropriate behavior such as cross-posting
irrelevant material to many newsgroups at the same time. It is actions
like that, combined with your use of intemperate and abusive language,
that caused you to get banned before you had chance to say much.

It's a bit like the boy who cried 'wolf'. People see you doing these
things, and so when you appear on an IRC channel where this is known
about you get banned as a pre-emptive measure.

I have discussed this matter with dash, and he has agreed not to kick
you off without reason the next time you join #python. This will only
last as long as your behavior remains acceptable, so please don't abuse
the privilege I have won back for you. If you do, that will make me feel
(and look) like a real dick, and get you banned again straight away.

regards
Steve

--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
PyCon is coming! Atlanta, Feb 2010 http://us.pycon.org/
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
UPCOMING EVENTS: http://holdenweb.eventbrite.com/

[Stephen Thorne]

On Feb 5, 8:26 am, Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I appreciate that you taking this more seriously than normal
> newsgroups postings. In fact, for this complaint, the response you
> made is all i asked for.
>

> <trolling cruft snipped>

I am taking this as seriously as all the articles you have posted to
usenet.

Stephen.

[Stephen Thorne]

On Feb 5, 9:02 am, Steve Holden <st...@holdenweb.com> wrote:
> > • The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the
> > name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
> > means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
> > particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
> > the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
> > with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,
> > e.g. “repeatedly asking same question”, “continously raising
> > controversial issues”, “refused to use paste bin when requested” will
> > do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,
> > “ban'd for trolling”, “annoying others”, are not a meaningful reason.)
>
> This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
> happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
> bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
> case your suggestions above seem reasonable).

The current banlist lists 258 names. According to my logs there have
been 95 masks added to this list and 44 removals since October. This
is approximately 23 a month, or 3 every 4 days. 11 ops were active in
this action during this period.

For reference, this is the 4th largest IRC channel on freenode
according to http://searchirc.com/search.php?SCHANS=1&SSORT=SIZE&N=freenode
and the other large channels weigh in with 298 (gentoo), 9
(archlinux), 14 (##C++), 280 (#ubuntu), 109 (#debian).

We are hardly exceptional in the size of our list of people we have
excluded from the IRC community.

On discussion with #archlinux it seems that the reason archlinux has
so few on their list is because they use chanserv's AKICK feature,
which means the name isn't kept in the IRC client accessable banlist,
and is only put there temporarily when the excluded user returns by
chanserv.

Stephen.

[Steve Holden]

Stephen Thorne wrote:
> On Feb 5, 9:02 am, Steve Holden <st...@holdenweb.com> wrote:

>>> � The list of ban'd person's names, the reason for banning, and the

>>> name of admin who ban'd them, should be public. (irc already provides
>>> means for this that allows admins to annotate in the ban list.) In
>>> particular, if you are going to ban someone by ip address, make sure
>>> the person's handle (or preferably real life name), be listed together
>>> with it. (again, this needs not elaborate. A single sentence will do,

>>> e.g. �repeatedly asking same question�, �continously raising
>>> controversial issues�, �refused to use paste bin when requested� will

>>> do. Again, be as precise in description as possible. For example,

>>> �ban'd for trolling�, �annoying others�, are not a meaningful reason.)

>> This is perhaps a little formal for something that (as far as I know)
>> happens less than once a month. I am reluctant to start up any kind of
>> bureaucracy around bannings unless they become too frequent (in which
>> case your suggestions above seem reasonable).
>
> The current banlist lists 258 names. According to my logs there have
> been 95 masks added to this list and 44 removals since October. This
> is approximately 23 a month, or 3 every 4 days. 11 ops were active in
> this action during this period.
>
> For reference, this is the 4th largest IRC channel on freenode
> according to http://searchirc.com/search.php?SCHANS=1&SSORT=SIZE&N=freenode
> and the other large channels weigh in with 298 (gentoo), 9
> (archlinux), 14 (##C++), 280 (#ubuntu), 109 (#debian).
>
> We are hardly exceptional in the size of our list of people we have
> excluded from the IRC community.
>
> On discussion with #archlinux it seems that the reason archlinux has
> so few on their list is because they use chanserv's AKICK feature,
> which means the name isn't kept in the IRC client accessable banlist,
> and is only put there temporarily when the excluded user returns by
> chanserv.
>

Thanks, Stephen.

It's fairly obvious I am not an active IRC user, isn't it?

regards
Steve
--

[Ron Adam]

Xah Lee wrote:

> For anyone reading this thread and interested in my opinions, i have
> written many essays related to this and netiquette. Many of which
> detail other similar incidences that i personally experienced, such as
> freenode's irc ban in #emacs channel. If you are interested, they can
> be found on my website, search for “ban xah lee”.

Xah,

Often (in the past) most of your posts have come across as complaints or
ones pointing out problems or comparisons of the negative sort. Your
overall negative tone is just one of the reasons you get labeled a troll.

I suggest you try to be less confrontational and more positive. Use your
expertise and intelligence to help others but don't be offended if they
don't agree with you. There's more than one way to do almost everything
and sometimes the best way for "a person" to do it is the way that person
is able to grasp it.

Regards,
Ron

[Aahz]

In article <0c535d15-967d-4909...@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,

Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>freenode.net.

Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp. From my POV, that's
grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
--
Aahz (aa...@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

import antigravity

[Steve Holden]

Aahz wrote:
> In article <0c535d15-967d-4909...@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>> freenode.net.
>
> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp. From my POV, that's
> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.

It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
#python is likely to last much longer than the last.

[Daniel Fetchinson]

>>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>>> freenode.net.
>>
>> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
>> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp. From my POV, that's
>> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
>

> It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
> #python is likely to last much longer than the last.

Some humanity, please! If you look at the web page of the guy it
really strikes me as a poor bastard who deserves more pity than
bashing. IRC, newsgroups, email, web page, etc, these are the only
things that this guy is doing, if you take these things away from him
I don't know what will be left for him. Yes, he is annoying, yes, he
is trolling, but if this prevents him from jumping under the bus, then
I'd say let him do it. How many serial trolls are there on c.l.p? Not
many. The average troll should of course be kicked out from
everywhere, but guys like Xah are really rare and on humanitarian
grounds I think should be allowed to do their things. If you really
think about it the damage is not that great.

In medieval times 99% of crazy people (using a loose definition of
crazy) were either executed or tortured and executed, however, the one
lonely village clown or court clown was allowed to be crazy, he even
had a decent income from the king. I'm not suggesting a stipend for
Xah from the PSF :) but having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it
makes him happy.

Cheers,
Daniel

--
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown

[Daniel Fetchinson]

> LOL

assert funny > 1

> pow(funny, sys.maxint)

>> >>> This is a short complaint on admin abuse on #python irc channel on
>> >>> freenode.net.
>> >>
>> >> Let's see, you are complaining about getting banned from #python by
>> >> CROSS-POSTING between c.l.py and comp.lang.lisp. From my POV, that's
>> >> grounds for extending the IRC ban permanently.
>> >

>> > It certainly doesn't inspire any confidence that Xah's next trip to
>> > #python is likely to last much longer than the last.
>>
>> Some humanity, please! If you look at the web page of the guy it
>> really strikes me as a poor bastard who deserves more pity than
>> bashing. IRC, newsgroups, email, web page, etc, these are the only
>> things that this guy is doing, if you take these things away from him
>> I don't know what will be left for him. Yes, he is annoying, yes, he
>> is trolling, but if this prevents him from jumping under the bus, then
>> I'd say let him do it. How many serial trolls are there on c.l.p? Not
>> many. The average troll should of course be kicked out from
>> everywhere, but guys like Xah are really rare and on humanitarian
>> grounds I think should be allowed to do their things. If you really
>> think about it the damage is not that great.
>>
>> In medieval times 99% of crazy people (using a loose definition of
>> crazy) were either executed or tortured and executed, however, the one
>> lonely village clown or court clown was allowed to be crazy, he even
>> had a decent income from the king. I'm not suggesting a stipend for
>> Xah from the PSF :) but having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it
>> makes him happy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown

>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[Steve Holden]

Shashwat Anand wrote:
> LOL
> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>
Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.

I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
much of that kind of nonsense.

[Daniel Fetchinson]

>> LOL
>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>
> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.

I don't think we need to worry about other communities or every
internet related problem. The only thing we need to make sure is that
c.l.p or the python community in general is friendly, tolerant,
healthy and perhaps shows a good example to other communities on how
to run a community, including how to handle problematic behavior.

> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
> much of that kind of nonsense.

I don't think you get my point. Rehabilitation or cure is not the goal
here. A village clown or court clown never changed, never got cured,
never got reintroduced into the community as a 'normal' person. A
village clown is tolerated in the purest form of the word 'tolerance'
by nor wishing him to change. Let him be the clown, let everybody
accept him as such, including all the annoyance and weird behavior.
Hoping for someone to change is the same as assigning him to a
correctional facility.

I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only
people should do who don't like him is ignoring him. What is very
important is that there can be only one PCJ and everybody else with
objectionable behavior will be banned, blacklisted, etc. with the full
force of available methods.

This would I think send a very clear message to all other online
communities that the Python Community is able to think outside the
box, and is not afraid of taking unusual steps to maintain a healthy
community and is even able to incorporate revolutionary new tactics to
keep the community friendly and tolerant.

[Daniel Fetchinson]

One more thing: if every online community (or only programming
related newsgroup) would designate an XY Community Jester I believe
the relatively few number of serial trolls would all find their places
somewhere eventually. This approach would actually work and solve a
serious problem, as opposed to building more jails and more
correctional facilities.

[D'Arcy J.M. Cain]

On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:11:41 +0100
Daniel Fetchinson <fetch...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
> short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
> in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
> retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only

Are you sure you aren't lobbying for the position for yourself? I
think you have a shot based on this proposal.

--
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <da...@druid.net> | Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:57:13 +0100, Daniel Fetchinson wrote:

> having a single c.l.p clown is tolerable if it makes him happy.

Why should we care about his happiness if it comes at the expense of the
happiness of hundreds of other people?

I mean, if he decided that his happiness was best satisfied by following
you home one day and smashing all your windows and pouring tar all over
your furniture and smearing excrement over your clothes, should we
tolerate that because it makes him happy?

And later, in another post:

> A village clown is tolerated in the purest form of the word 'tolerance'
> by nor wishing him to change. Let him be the clown, let everybody
> accept him as such, including all the annoyance and weird behavior.

Why should we? What's in it for us?

> Hoping for someone to change is the same as assigning him to a
> correctional facility.

That's a ridiculous comparison, which could only have been spoken to
somebody who has never been in prison. You trivialise the problem of the
punishment society by equating it to expecting a modicum of polite
behaviour in public.

> I'd say let's designate a post Python Community Jester, or PCJ for
> short, let's name Xah Lee the PCJ and make it clear that he can engage
> in his activities on c.l.p and #python as he wishes without
> retribution and fear, and nobody should really bother him. The only

> people should do who don't like him is ignoring him. What is very
> important is that there can be only one PCJ and everybody else with
> objectionable behavior will be banned, blacklisted, etc. with the full
> force of available methods.

Why should Xah Lee get special treatment? If other anti-social nuisances
and trolls are banned, why should he get the privilege of being tolerated
no matter what he does?

What is so special about Xah Lee that he gets carte blanche permission to
be as obnoxious as he wants, while everyone else has to follow the rules
of polite society?

--
Steven

[John Bokma]

Daniel Fetchinson <fetch...@googlemail.com> writes:

> One more thing:

Yeah, one more thing: since you are all for a better community why not
reply without quoting the entire message? Just quote enough to
provide some decent context.

Xah is just a spammer. It amazes me how often people want to step in the
role of Xah's sockpuppet.

[Jean-Michel Pichavant]

Steve Holden wrote:

> Shashwat Anand wrote:
>
>> LOL
>> pow(funny, sys.maxint)
>>
>>
> Yes, funny, but it overlooks the point that Xah is a nuisance to
> multiple communities, not just to ours, and quite often concurrently.
>

> I'm all in favor of tolerance, but I'd like to see some evidence that
> rehabilitation is practical before the community has to tolerate too
> much of that kind of nonsense.
>

> regards
> Steve
>
Actually for one Xah post I get, I then get 20 mails complaining about
him. The fact is, for someone like me who subscribed only to the python
list (what's the purpose of subscribing the perl list when you know
about python existence btw :o) ), the real annoying spam comes from the
complains, not Xah. Speaking for myself, I may get 3 or 4 posts from Xah
a month at most. Something I can live with.

So guys, just ignore him if you don't like him. Mailers & news readers
have plenty of feature to make it happen.

Adding my contribution to complains...

JM

[MRAB]

Alternatively, add [XAH] to the subject in the replies so that they can
be filtered out easily. :-)

[Aahz]

In article <mailman.2130.1265592...@python.org>,

Jean-Michel Pichavant <jeanm...@sequans.com> wrote:
>
>So guys, just ignore him if you don't like him. Mailers & news readers
>have plenty of feature to make it happen.

Unfortunately, unless you have a stable group of people with
self-control, that doesn't work. Idiots like Xah will always get
responses. (This opinion brought to you by two decades of experience
with BBS, mailing lists, and Usenet.)