HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API
r
Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
An introduction to SketchUp:
====================
I don't know if you are familiar with "Google Sketchup". It is the
best 3d CAM program available.
If you have not checked it out and do modeling of any kind, or want to
learn modeling, you need to see it right away. SketchUp offers a
simple and intuitive interface for drawing 3D models. Very powerful,
and Very simple. Now before you say "Blender has a Python API", your
right, but Blender and SketchUp are like two sides of the "modeling
mountain". There are things you can do in 5 minutes with SketchUP that
would take hours with Blender, and vice versa. SketchUp is more
archtecural based.
Google provides both a FREE and PRO version of the application. Now,
although most free versions of a software are cut down so much that
they are little more than toys...this is not the case with
SketchUp!...You can do almost everything in the free version as in the
pro...including scripting! Unfortunatly though SketchUp currently uses
Ruby(sorry to use profanity) language for scripting on both the free
and pro versions. IMHO...and you will probably agree... programming
with Ruby is neither fun or efficient. Don't get me wrong i am not
knocking Ruby. But i have tried to learn Rudy and i all i get is a
headache...C in my opinion is much easier than Ruby(but this may just
be me). So basically SketchUp is intended for beginners as well as
pros. And inline with SketchUp's philosophy I believe Python will make
the application more intuitive and more fun. Creating less overhead to
learn the API and at the same time expose new people to the greatness
of Python!
This is the slogan i took from there website:
===============================
"We designed SketchUp's simplified toolset, guided drawing system and
clean look-and-feel to help you concentrate on two things: getting
your work done as efficiently as possible, and having fun while you're
doing it."
Which is 100% correct, but the sort-coming here is the API. I really
think it would be in Google interest to include Python as a scripting
language. And before you say..."scripting is not THAT important".... i
say wrong, without the scripting API more advanced "modeler" types
like myself would not be as interested in SketchUP.
Why Python? you ask. Well Python has more docs, tutorials, and info
than Ruby, Python has a MUCH clearer syntax, and Python is easy to
learn for n00bs...or anybody. And Python promotes a better coding
style than Ruby. I have looked over many Ruby scripts and they are
just a mess. Since Ruby does not enforce ellipsis for a method call,
parsing code with your eyes can be very frustrating. Also Ruby offers
too many ways to do one thing, alowing two scripts that do the exact
same thing to look completely different. Some of the things I like
more about python:
-I think classes are much easier to write and understand. Python
keywords are a no brainer! When i first studied python the keywords
stuck in my head right away! No need to go back to the docs to refresh
my memory.
-print instead of puts
-input instead of gets
-elif instead of elsif
-None instead of nil --WTH is nil anyway?
-list comprehensions: [x for x in range(100) if x % 2 == 0]
even a n00b can see what that is doing .
-The dict and list objects could not be easier to use. And the
similarity for accessing list indexes, string indexes, and dict could
not be easier to remember.
Also something i find completely frustrating about Ruby is the end
statement, Why in the world, do we need such things in a high level
language? High level languages are suppost to take the burden off the
developer and put it on the machine(where it belongs). Python uses
indentation instead of the "end" keyword to denote a block. Which has
the effect of creating a good coding style from day one, and also
makes for easy reading of source code, something very important to a
n00b (i know i am preaching to the choir here;)
Credit where credit is do:
==================
You know, Guidio van Rossum really nailed it when he created this
language. He took the best of everything he saw that was good and left
out everything he saw was bad (i think only one other entity has done
his before long ago...see Book of Genesis ;)
Now if we could get Python into SketchUp this would be a win for
SketchUp, AND for Python.
Python would get more exposure, and SketchUP would be easier to use,
sticking to there policy above. And when people have a choice between
Python and Ruby... you and I both know who will win that
competition ;-).
Now before you say..."don't tell us, tell the SketchUp DEV TEAM". I
have hinted at adding Python as a second scripting API, but what needs
to happen is to get a list together of people that use SketchUp or
people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think it is a damn
good idea and submit it to the DEV TEAM.
Look forward to hearing from you! I am open to any suggestions good or
bad.
Thanks
Chris Rebert
> Hello fellow Python Advocates!
> Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
>
> An introduction to SketchUp:
> ====================
> I don't know if you are familiar with "Google Sketchup". It is the
> best 3d CAM program available.
>
> Credit where credit is do:
> ==================
> You know, Guidio van Rossum really nailed it when he created this
> language. He took the best of everything he saw that was good and left
> out everything he saw was bad (i think only one other entity has done
> his before long ago...see Book of Genesis ;)
>
> Now if we could get Python into SketchUp this would be a win for
> SketchUp, AND for Python.
> Python would get more exposure, and SketchUP would be easier to use,
> sticking to there policy above. And when people have a choice between
> Python and Ruby... you and I both know who will win that
> competition ;-).
>
> Now before you say..."don't tell us, tell the SketchUp DEV TEAM". I
> have hinted at adding Python as a second scripting API, but what needs
> to happen is to get a list together of people that use SketchUp or
> people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think it is a damn
> good idea and submit it to the DEV TEAM.
>
> Look forward to hearing from you! I am open to any suggestions good or
> bad.
I don't really give a care about SketchUp, but just FYI, you are aware
that Guido van Rossum and some other prominent Pythonistas are
currently employed by Google, right?
Cheers,
Chris
--
Follow the path of the Iguana...
http://rebertia.com
> Thanks
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
r
>
> > Thanks
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Of course, but you are not suggesting that i bother Guido with this. I
am sure he is too busy.
Chris Rebert
No, obviously that was not my implication.
- Chris
r
Are you against promoting python?
r
To merely say... "Well Guido and some high level Python people work at
Google and if Python is not in SketchUp now it will never be"... is
pretty self defeating to me. Weather you like SketchUp or not doesn't
matter. This is a call for a grass roots movement to further the
incorporation of Python into a popular and useful app. I'm not asking
for people to support SketchUp here...I am asking people to support
Python. Of all Places in the world, there should be support here. I
hope at least you care about Python.
Sure this may blow under the rug but hey...doesn't hurt to try. My
call was a "testing the waters" to see if there if fact are any Python-
SketchUp fans here. Maybe your a Ruby fan, i don't know, but that
would explain your quick disposal of the idea though.
-food for thought-
Terry Reedy
> Hello fellow Python Advocates!
> Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
>
> An introduction to SketchUp:
> ====================
There is no need to puff up Python or put down Ruby to this audience.
Given how much Google uses Python as a core language, I am a bit shocked
that they would release a program with Ruby and not Python bindings
also. Must be an isolated dev group.
r
I lament every day about it! :^)
If you read the complete post though you will see that i am not trying
to dog Ruby, only trying to say that Python is nicer to a n00b (IMHO).
And by doing so, allows a new user to do more advanced things quickly,
increasing usability of the application.
alex23
> would explain your quick disposal of the idea though.
Are you intending to come off so patronising? To angrily dismiss
someone who has been posting some solid help in this group for the
past three months doesn't do your position any favours. There's
advocacy and then there's rabid fanboyism....
> -food for thought-
Here's something a little more substantial for you to consider: put up
or shut up. Create a thin layer that brokers Python requests through
to the Ruby interface for SketchUp. Gain support for this approach.
Prove how many people are interested in using the Python aspect. Show
you're not expecting someone else to bear all the effort. Do something
more constructive than post wishful fantasies and snide cutdowns to a
mailing list.
Stop proclaiming how great Python is and start developing solutions
that demonstrate it.
r
Although i am no Pythonista by FAR, i will give my all to help this
idea come to be. I am not just posting ideas and expecting everyone
else pull the load. That being said, there is no way I could do this
on my own. I would need the help of smarter people than myself. Yes i
totally agree, this idea is hugely ambitious to say the least! All i
can say is no tree can bear fruit without first planting the seed. I
must be honest, i was not expecting this much resisstance to my idea,
but i did say that i welcomed all input. I did fail to mention in my
OP that this was a "testing of the waters", to see if anyone out there
shared the same feelings.
Thanks again.
Terry Reedy
> On Nov 27, 6:15 pm, Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu> wrote:
>> r wrote:
>>> Hello fellow Python Advocates!
>>> Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
>>> An introduction to SketchUp:
>>> ====================
>> There is no need to puff up Python or put down Ruby to this audience.
>> Given how much Google uses Python as a core language, I am a bit shocked
>> that they would release a program with Ruby and not Python bindings
>> also. Must be an isolated dev group.
> thanks Terry,
I did
> you will see that i am not trying to dog Ruby,
You fooled me. But rather than discuss what you did write, here is what
I think you should have written that would be more effective.
-----------------------------
Google has released a program SketchUp in both free and pro editions.
It does ... and I think it is great. It nicely complements Blender, for
instance. see
sketchup.google.com <you forget to give url>
For me, however, it has one problem; the only scripting language now is
Ruby and I would far prefer to sript it in Python. Are there any Python
and Sketchup user who agree and who would help me persuade the sketchup
developers to add Python? Does anyone have any persuasive arguments to
suggest?
------------
Short and to the point.
r
I will apologize for being too wordy, and my unintentional rough-ness
towards Ruby. Again i stress the fact that i am in no way dogging
Ruby. I am sure there are many places where Ruby out performs Python.
But IMHO i really believe that Python is easier to learn than Ruby(for
non-programmers). I quickly picked up on python and even C, but Ruby
still turns me off. (did i mention Ruby was the first language i
tried!) This is not ruby's fault, ruby may be geared more to a
proffessional programmer, which i am not. I just see that python is
perfect for scripting applications(from my point of veiw). I just
simply want to introduce others to the joy i get from using python.
And since SketchUp is for modelers NOT programmers, this may be just
what they need.
Thanks i respect everyones opinion here. Even Chris's opinion!
r
Well... 3 for Ruby 1 for python. Not looking good so far. Any more
votes?
alex23
> Well... 3 for Ruby 1 for python. Not looking good so far. Any more
> votes?
I don't see -any- of the responses in this thread "voting" for
anything other than a more civil approach to your request. If you're
seeing these in a "if you're not with me you're against me" light,
then you have far more serious concerns then the absence of a Python
API in SketchUp.
Incidentally, Google -acquired- SketchUp from an independent
development company, as they were looking for a simple-to-use
modelling tool to allow for rapid model inclusion with Google Earth.
AS @Last Software were completely unrelated to Google when they first
developed SketchUp, it's hardly a surprise that they chose whatever
damn scripting API they wanted to.
r
I am still flabbergasted by the solid resistance to promoting Python.
Here of all places, NOT even one person(well Terry did kinda half
agree with me =), wants to support Python. I am completely perplexed.
I had to check and make sure this was comp.lang.python and NOT
comp.lang.ruby. WOW! I'm hurt, not that no one agree's with my overly
ambitious idea, but at the lack of support for Python. What would the
BDFL say if he saw this post, sure you can call me crazy, sure you can
call me an idiot, but you cannot support Python! You OWE your
allegence to Python and the BDFL. I would be very disappointed.
I think i know why nobody wants to get on-board. All the regulars
can't have a n00b come in here and propose a grand Idea. Does it
bother you that i am so ambitious, so FOR the advancement of Python!
Why do you get so offended by the mention that python is better in
this way or that, than Ruby. Answer that if you are a man. Would you
like to see python in more applications? Why do you even use Python.
Do you feel you should give back or just take, take, take??? I have
shared my feelings, let's hear yours.
alex23
> Does it bother you that i am so ambitious[...] Answer that if
> you are a man. [...] Do you feel you should give back or just
> take, take, take??? I have shared my feelings, let's hear yours.
It bothers me that you seem to be off your medication and turning this
into a non-existent conspiracy amongst a lot of unjustified ad hominem
attacks.
My personal feeling is that you're a complete idiot who could've
achieved more actually working on the problem you perceive in
SketchUp's lack of a Python API in the time you've spent abusing
others for what you see as greed, arrogance and stupidity.
r
Did you even read my OP, I mean the whole thing... not just the title?
I am working on the problem, I am trying to garner support for a
Python intergration. Grass Roots kinda thing.
[alex23]
@Last Software were completely unrelated to Google when they first
developed SketchUp, it's hardly a surprise that they chose whatever
damn scripting API they wanted to.
[/alex23]
Why can't Google change the API now? They own it right? Why can't
there be 2 API's? A kinda 60 free love thing. And why are you SO
violently against it? Is this a sin?
r
subject
Hello fellow Python enthusiust!
Google has released a program called SkectchUp in both a free and Pro
version.
http://sketchup.google.com/index.html
It is an architectural based 3D modeling application with support for
windows and Mac and has a large following.(i think it will work in
linux with WINE but full support is not there yet...this is also
something we could help change though). Which is a good complement to
Blender. I believe it would be great if SketchUp included a Python API
and i am looking for support in that direction. If anybody is
interested in helping me persuade the SketchUp DEV TEAM to add Python
i would love to hear your suggestions.
Again Thank you!
George Sakkis
> I am still flabbergasted by the solid resistance to promoting Python.
> Here of all places, NOT even one person(well Terry did kinda half
> agree with me =), wants to support Python. I am completely perplexed.
> I had to check and make sure this was comp.lang.python and NOT
> comp.lang.ruby.
>
> (more inane rambling snipped)
It's indeed comp.lang.python, a list which for whatever sociological
reason attracts mainly moderate posters rather than rabid fanboys and
script kiddies, unlike other communities you may be more familiar
with. Perhaps you chose the wrong group for your new adopted religion.
Why don't you go read a tutorial, write up some code, and come back
with any real questions next time.
George
r
WOW, thanks George for your honest reply.
alex23
> Did you even read my OP, I mean the whole thing... not just the title?
> I am working on the problem, I am trying to garner support for a
> Python intergration. Grass Roots kinda thing.
Jesus wept. Of course I did. It's why I actually made suggestions on
how you could achieve this rather than trying to offload the effort to
others. Pissing off potential supporters -within- the Python community
is hardly what I'd consider a successful grass roots approach.
> Why can't Google change the API now?
Developing a 2nd API -costs in time and effort-. It doesn't happen for
free.
> Why can't there be 2 API's?
Because the reward has to be worth the cost, and it has to be be more
rewarding than shutting up every single idiot who wants their language
of choice to be supported.
You sound like the endless drones who proclaimed Google App Engine to
be pointless because it didn't support PHP/Ruby/Perl/Erlang/Brainfuck
from the very beginning.
> A kinda 60 free love thing.
Hippie idealism aside, nothing is "free". You're asking -other- people
to shoulder the effort for something -you- want.
How much is this API -worth- to you? How much time are -you- willing
to commit to developing it? If you lack the ability, how much -money-
are you willing to spend on hiring the people with that ability?
> And why are you SO violently against it?
Please point out exactly where I said I was opposed to SketchUp
growing a Python API. While doing so, try and pay attention to how I
repeatedly stated that it was your -approach- that was the issue.
> Is this a sin?
This isn't about morality at all; your evangelicalism aside, Python
isn't a religion.
If anything, this is about respect, understanding and the sheer lack
of either you seem to demonstrate.
r
for it...IS MADNESS!
Not one vote for Python, not a care. I think everyone here should look
deep within their self and realize the damage that has been done
today! I hope Guido's eyes never see this thread, for he may lose all
hope in humanity. He only spent the last 18 years of his life pursuing
this thing called Python. Maybe 1,2,3, years from now someone will see
this thread and post a vote for Python. Maybe as simple as "I will
fight for Python" , "I am not scared to go up against the status quo".
For that day will be a glorious day. That day shall be Python Day!
I will never give UP!
r
[alex23]
Hippie idealism aside, nothing is "free". You're asking -other-
people
to shoulder the effort for something -you- want.
[/alex23]
I AM NOT ASKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THIS FOR ME. I am asking for
SUPPORT! Yes, i will need smarter people than myself to make this
happen, I AM NO PYTHON GURU. But there are many ways i can help. And i
WILL invest every once of entergy within myself to make this happen. I
believe python is perfect for this situation. NOT EVERY SITUATION. I
am not saying python is the only good language to use. Any good
programmer knows many languages. Python is not a CURE ALL language.
All of this i made clear in the OP. You must see past your love of
ruby to see my reasoning.
It's very simple. SketchUp is made for MODELERS not PROGRAMMERS. Give
them the easiest to learn API you can offer!
And even if this crazy idea had 0% chance of becoming a reality, Why
can't you just say "Yes, i will back Python"
-food for thought-
r
How much is this API -worth- to you? How much time are -you- willing
to commit to developing it? If you lack the ability, how much -money-
[/alex23]
Alex,
Are you telling me that out of all the great and wonderful developers
python has None of them would volenteer their time to promote python?
I do not believe that myself. I DO NOT want to be paid for my time, I
ONLY want to give back to Python DEV and Guido for what python has
given me. I guess if money is all you are interested in this will
never happen.
PS Good thing Guido doesn't think like you or None of use would enjoy
python for free.
-Thanksgiving dinner size FOOD for THOUGHT- my friend!
alex23
> To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched
> for it...IS MADNESS!
There's is madness in this thread, of that I have no doubt.
Please don't presume to speak for Guido, he's a big boy and has shown
he's more than capable of doing that for himself.
At best, this thread is an annoying piece of trolling. At worst, it's
a clear sign that you should seek help.
Gerard flanagan
alex23
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum#Complexity
You're a far more generous soul than I am, I would've been more
inclined to link to the following:
r
I think every body here can clearly see that you are not interested in
furthering the evolution of Python. I can live with that. Can you?
ru...@yahoo.com
r, i am with you! i will back Python!!! we MUST spread
Python throughout the world! sketchup is the first step,
only the first step. it is really sad that the so-called
Python supporters on this list don't really care about
Python -- only money, and depravity. you and i and the
other few, pure of heart, must fight for Python!!
death to infidel ruby lovers!!!
long live Guido!
i pledge my life to Python and Guido!!!!!!!!!!!
Gerard flanagan
r
Ok finally! Thank you ru...@yahoo.com the Python Gods have not
forsaken me!
So far that's 2 for python and 5 for Ruby (accually 2.5 for python
Terry half way agree's with me =)
There are turncoats amoung us, so we must tread carefully! We shall
fight the good fight. But i must must warn you brother, many here do
not agree with our passion for Python! This will be an uphill battle,
But battle we must! For our names shall be engraved in the halls of
Python forever. Fight with me for Glory not riches. Fight with me and
you shall be free. FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!
r
> Python supporters on this list don't really care about
> Python -- only money, and depravity. you and i and the
> other few, pure of heart, must fight for Python!!
Unfortunatly no others besides yourself have come forward. This is not
a fight for my ideas anymore as a test of the community! You make a
good point, money is the great corruptor. Guido gave a large portion
of his life to bring about python. And for these people to say in one
breath "Yea, I use free Python" and in the next say "No I will not
support free Python" desicrates the work that Guido and the DEV TEAM
have done! Guido GAVE python to the world for FREE. Guido has done his
job, now it is time to step up and be counted! I came here to seek
support for python and to my dismay have incountered huge resistance,
NOT to my ideas, but to support for Python. What future is there for
python when comp.lang.python will not support Python! Sure my idea is
ambitious, but does that mean we should not try?
Try to give back some time and you will see a change in your life for
the better. There are greater things in life than money. Take Guido's
example!
Steven D'Aprano
> To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched for
> it...IS MADNESS!
No, this is Sparta!
(Somebody had to say it.)
> Not one vote for Python, not a care. I think everyone here should look
> deep within their self and realize the damage that has been done today!
Oh the damage! Won't anybody think of the damage?!
> I hope Guido's eyes never see this thread, for he may lose all hope in
> humanity.
Probably, but not for the reason you think.
Have you considered that as Guido works at Google, he probably knows all
about Sketchup and doesn't care a flying fig about the scripting language
it uses? He's got better things to do than run around like a headless
chicken getting upset that there's a program out in the world that uses
something other than Python.
> He only spent the last 18 years of his life pursuing this
> thing called Python.
No, he has spent the last 18 years of his life having a life. Python is
only a small part of it. He has a wife and child and a job, and no doubt
he has hobbies. He even has a blog:
http://neopythonic.blogspot.com/
> Maybe 1,2,3, years from now someone will see this
> thread and post a vote for Python. Maybe as simple as "I will fight for
> Python" , "I am not scared to go up against the status quo". For that
> day will be a glorious day. That day shall be Python Day! I will never
> give UP!
Forgot to take your meds today?
Earlier, at Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:49:37 -0800, you wrote:
> Well... 3 for Ruby 1 for python. Not looking good so far. Any more
> votes?
Are you trolling? Are you some sort of agent provocateur trying to put
people *against* the idea of Python scripting for Sketchup? If not,
you're sure doing an excellent imitation of one.
You start off by spitting all over Ruby, then demonstrate spinelessness
by turning around and saying you have nothing against Ruby when it is
obvious that you do have many things against it. Then you gush about how
wonderful Python is in an embarrassingly, and obnoxiously, saccharine
way. And now you come up with this garbage about "3 for Ruby" -- nobody
here voted for Ruby.
It's not that we don't want Python to be successful, and I for one resent
you implication that just because we're not throwing ourselves at your
pet project we're anti-Python. Python is already successful, and we're
not throwing ourselves at your pet project because most of us don't give
a monkey's toss about Sketchup. Why should we put our time and energy
into a piece of software that we don't care about? You might not have
anything better to do with your life, but we do.
--
Steven
Bruno Desthuilliers
(snip)
> Unfortunatly though SketchUp currently uses
> Ruby(sorry to use profanity)
(snip)
> language for scripting on both the free
> and pro versions. IMHO...and you will probably agree... programming
> with Ruby is neither fun or efficient. Don't get me wrong i am not
> knocking Ruby.
No ? Really ? Then I don't want to know what you could come with if you
tried to.
> But i have tried to learn Rudy and i all i get is a
> headache...
(snip more Ruby bashing).
The fact _you_ don't like Ruby doesn't make it a bad language. If what
you want is a Python API to SketchUp, bashing Ruby certainly won't help
- quite on the contrary. And it won't help promoting Python neither.
Bruno Desthuilliers
> On Nov 28, 12:52 am, ru...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Nov 27, 10:28 pm, r <rt8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched
>>> for it...IS MADNESS!
>>> Not one vote for Python, not a care. I think everyone here should look
>>> deep within their self and realize the damage that has been done
>>> today! I hope Guido's eyes never see this thread, for he may lose all
>>> hope in humanity. He only spent the last 18 years of his life pursuing
>>> this thing called Python. Maybe 1,2,3, years from now someone will see
>>> this thread and post a vote for Python. Maybe as simple as "I will
>>> fight for Python" , "I am not scared to go up against the status quo".
>>> For that day will be a glorious day. That day shall be Python Day!
>>> I will never give UP!
>> r, i am with you! i will back Python!!! we MUST spread
>> Python throughout the world! sketchup is the first step,
>> only the first step. it is really sad that the so-called
>> Python supporters on this list don't really care about
>> Python -- only money, and depravity. you and i and the
>> other few, pure of heart, must fight for Python!!
>> death to infidel ruby lovers!!!
>> long live Guido!
>> i pledge my life to Python and Guido!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Ok finally! Thank you ru...@yahoo.com the Python Gods have not
> forsaken me!
I'm afraid you've been trolled.
r
AGAIN, I'm NOT asking you to support SKETCHUP I am asking for support
for PYTHON! Did you even read my entire OP?? Or did you just jump on
Chris's bandwagon? Do you think for yourself, or do you follow blindly
like a SHEEPLE??
this is the last line from my OP!
"but what needs to happen is to get a list together of people that use
SketchUp or people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think...
(having python in SketchUp)...it is a damn good idea and submit it to
the DEV TEAM."
I think you are TOO lazy to read a post as long as mine to the end,
and since I have no reputation like Chris or George here you would
never support my idea simply for that reason! If you support python
scripting in SketchUp you are supporting Python, SketchUp is just
collateral damage. But you are too blind with pride to see that.
I think you and everyone that has replied negativly to this post justs
want to use Python and not put in an effort to further Python. Hey,
it's a free world baby... But can you really live with yourself???
r
> you want is a Python API to SketchUp, bashing Ruby certainly won't help
> - quite on the contrary. And it won't help promoting Python neither.
Thanks Bruno,
I never said Ruby is a bad Language! do you what IMHO means?? For
every question there is one answer. Do YOU BRUNO, think that learning
Ruby is easier than learning Python(for non-programmers)?? Can you
honestly answer a simple question like this? Or does pride get in the
way. Or maybe you where born knowing all programming languages and
that is why you honestly cannot answer.
-food for thought-
r
I encourage everyone that have been offended by my remarks about Ruby
to Post their feeling about how Ruby is better than Python. THE ONLY
REASON I SAID PYTHON WAS BETTER WAS IT'S LEARNABILITY. Proove to me
intellectually that Ruby is easier to learn, instead of getting
offended an spiting hateful remarks.
I am sure the same goals can be accomplished with both languages.
Sometimes Ruby will be better, sometimes Python will be better. You
know there can only be one winner to a contest. This "everybody needs
to win" crap makes me sick. Take for example little league games where
they let both teams win. What does this teach a child. Winning is
WRONG?? Yes...competition brings out the best and worst in all of us,
but without it, we would still be in the stone ages. Wake up, i
thought intellectual people hung out here, not blind SHEEPLE who will
jump on the bandwagon. This is the same madness that Hitler employed!
Use your mind, think freely of other people, and ye shall be free.
r
cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> Are you trolling? Are you some sort of agent provocateur trying to put people *against* the idea of Python > scripting for Sketchup? If not, you're sure doing an excellent imitation of one.
I am the only person here THAT IS FOR Python scripting in SketchUp!
(remember, i AM the OP) I AM the one who came up with the idea in the
first place! Only one other person here has agreed fully with me.
When i said "Well... 3 for Ruby 1 for python. Not looking good so far.
Any more votes?"...was my disgust at the lack of support for python
here. It's really shameful :(
ru...@yahoo.com
r, don't believe him. he is a secret ruby lover
and a tool of matz. the ruby lovers here will stop
at nothing to gain their end! they will try to
sow dissension and suspicion among us! to turn us
against our own! we must fight united for Python.
do not waver, do not hesitate. this group is a den
of inequity, filled with ruby lovers, perl lovers,
java lovers, and yes, even c++ lovers! you r, see
the situation with clear eyes -- there can be only
one victor in this language war to the death! it
MUST be Python!! without Python there is nothing
to live for!
give me Python or give me death!!!
for all that is holy, all that is sacred,
long live Guido!!!!!!!!!!!
r
If only the others had 1/10 of one percent of your love for Python, we
could do great things! But in the world today, most people would
rather sit glued to the boob-tube waiting for that next "wardrobe
malfunction" from Janet Jackson, or watch beaver shots of Brittney and
Paris, than jump in the trenches and fight for a just cause. Sad...
very sad.
Diez B. Roggisch
>> The fact _you_ don't like Ruby doesn't make it a bad language. If what
>> you want is a Python API to SketchUp, bashing Ruby certainly won't help
>> - quite on the contrary. And it won't help promoting Python neither.
>
> Thanks Bruno,
> I never said Ruby is a bad Language!
<snip nonsense/>
> -food for thought-
Eat your own post:
"""
Unfortunatly though SketchUp currently uses
Ruby(sorry to use profanity) language for scripting on both the free
and pro versions.
"""
Now I don't see no IMHO there, do you? Instead, you seem to think saying
"Ruby" is considered a swear word. As this isn't the case for this very
open minded and friendly community, this idea must be in *your* head.
Ergo, you don't like Ruby. So much for "never said it's a bad language".
Now, up up and away into my killfilter,
Diez
Diez B. Roggisch
>> The fact _you_ don't like Ruby doesn't make it a bad language. If what
>> you want is a Python API to SketchUp, bashing Ruby certainly won't help
>> - quite on the contrary. And it won't help promoting Python neither.
>
> Thanks Bruno,
> I never said Ruby is a bad Language!
<snip nonsense/>
> -food for thought-
Eat your own post:
"""
Unfortunatly though SketchUp currently uses
Ruby(sorry to use profanity) language for scripting on both the free
and pro versions.
"""
Now I don't see no IMHO there, do you? Instead, you seem to think saying
r
thy last breath spent, thy season draweth nigh...Ye have fought
bravely for all that is good. But ye are encompassed on all sides by
evil. Those who proclaim to love you are only the very same who seek
your end!
Weep oh lovers of Python...Weep. For your silence brings about the
hideous end to a great awesome power. Never again shall the sun shine
on calm waters. Never again shall the people be free. For the
betrayers have thrush the knife of iniquity slowly into thou heart,
and as ye lay dying, desacrate your body like the scoundrels they
are.
Weep, Weep, for yourself you scondrels, you vipers...for you have done
a great injustice to yourself and the world.
George Sakkis
> Now, up up and away into my killfilter,
Ditto; apparently it's either a troll or an 8-year old.
George
Terry Reedy
> On Nov 28, 4:32 am, Steven D'Aprano <st...@REMOVE-THIS-
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> Are you trolling? Are you some sort of agent provocateur trying to put people *against* the idea of Python > scripting for Sketchup? If not, you're sure doing an excellent imitation of one.
>
> I am the only person here THAT IS FOR Python scripting in SketchUp!
Stop lying.
r
30,40 replies and they said...WOW it looks like the community is
getting behind a project to host Python, I had better check this out!
Then when they opened the link and saw all the negative responses from
well known posters...either jumped on the negative bandwagon...or were
too afraid to post a reply that backs a n00b supporting Python.
-just food for thought-
I my self would never so viciously attack a poster for his ideas, if i
were to reply at all i would simple say "i do not think this is a good
idea". Plain and simple, and to the point. I never attacked anybody. I
only came here to share my support to further the advancement of
Python and see if anybody shared the same feelings. Only one person
out of 14,405 members agrees with me. I never thought i will convince
everyone, but i sure did not think ONLY one person HERE would support
Python. WOW...that is all i can say...WOW
You know I said before that I hoped Guido never see's this
thread...but i wonder if maybe he should see it...To see how far the
"great advocates" have fallen. I am disappointed to say the least. I
would not want to be in his shoes and see this!
Here is the definition of a troll for those whom seem not to
comprehend.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
=====================================
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who
posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in
an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room,
with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response
[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]
Application of the term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may
characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post
as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial.
The term is often used to discredit an opposing position, or its
proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem.
Often, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's
motives. Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may
attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the
robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical,
communities.
How is someone that goes to the PYTHON group to SUPPORT PYTHON a
troll??
r
I in my haste I may have miss-read your post...Are you saying that
there are people who WOULD support Python in SketchUp? Are you one of
them? Can you tell me who else may be interested? How can i contact
these people?
Giudo von Rossom
> You know I said before that I hoped Guido never see's this thread...but
> i wonder if maybe he should see it...To see how far the "great
> advocates" have fallen. I am disappointed to say the least. I would not
> want to be in his shoes and see this!
I am shocked! Shocked and dismayed and distraught and heart-borken by the
vile, dastardly, spineless false-friend's who have BETRAYED Pyhton and
STABBED ME IN TEH BACK like the cowardly FIENDS they ARE!
Everybody except r on this thread is banned from using Ptyhon. No,
EVERYBODY is banned from Pyhton. I'm going to stop all work on it
immediatelty and delete it from my website.
See what you have made me do, you RUBY LOVERS!!?!?!!
--
Giudo
MRAB
> On 29 Nov 2008 00:26:06 GMT, Giudo von Rossom <gi...@ptyhon.com>
> declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:
>
> Given three or four mis-spellings just in the "from:" header data...
> This doesn't even pass as an attempt at humor...
>
It's not comparable to the Parrot Sketch.
FYI, the header also contains:
X-Read-This: This message is not from GvR the creator of Python.
Aaron Brady
> On Nov 27, 9:31 pm, alex23 <wuwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 28, 12:49 pm, r <rt8...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Well... 3 for Ruby 1 for python. Not looking good so far. Any more
> > > votes?
>
> > anything other than a more civil approach to your request.
>
> I am still flabbergasted by the solid resistance to promoting Python.
I think the posters have mostly promoted Python rationally, and not
promoted Python irrationally. Python is a good language, and Ruby is
not a bad one. From what posters say, it's possible I'll end up using
Ruby or Scheme in the future, especially if they're the better choice
for the task, though not exclusively.
It is sad that devotion is such a two-sided coin. If you devote your
time, memory, and attention to a principle or idea, you exclude
others. Rational devotion, though, unless a contradiction in terms,
is merely allocation.
> Here of all places, NOT even one person(well Terry did kinda half
> agree with me =), wants to support Python. I am completely perplexed.
I'm actually honored that the posters here reply to me sometimes. I'm
just in my 20s so I shouldn't expect them to really. But one thing
that comes with realism (as opposed to zealotry), is a solid
examination of one's leader's advice, the alternatives, and other
leaders' advice. And realism is good.
> You OWE your
> allegence to Python and the BDFL.
I don't see how this follows from any of your premises. Can you start
with concrete observations and draw the conclusion you want? I could
see that taking this as a premise, you could conclude that one is
devoted to Python and the BDFL. Your argument is:
M: X reads c-l-python.
C: X owes his allegiance to Python and the BDFL.
You haven't made any observations much stronger than the major
premise, M, and unless you're making stronger assumptions that it, you
can't deduce C. In the general case, I take the meaning of 'owe' to
participate in something like:
M: X has paid Z to Y, not free.
C: Y owes Z to X.
Python and Guido have not paid me allegiance. So I don't owe them
allegiance. If you intended to make an argument for follower-ship
('fellowship'?) and devotion, something like:
M: Python is good.
C: Yay for Python.
Then you haven't even proven your major premise.
Taking debt (what one owes) to also originate from a collective, i.e.
the community, we also have:
Lemma: The community has granted Z to Y, such that Z is good. ('The
shirt on your back', 'your life', e.g.)
Major: One can pay a community by paying a particular leader or emblem
with relation T to the community.
Minor: Y owes Z to the community.
Conclusion: Y can pay by paying the leader.
To conclude that '[the audience owes its] allegiance to Guido and
Python', assuming that 'a community paid Z to Y' and 'Y paid Z to the
community' are well-defined, you're missing:
1: Allegiance is good.
2: The community has given the audience good things.
3: Guido and Python have relation T to the community.
They are yet to be shown. My assumption has been that you're using
'owe' in the sense of honor, not vendetta, which I leave.
> I think i know why nobody wants to get on-board. All the regulars
> can't have a n00b come in here and propose a grand Idea. Does it
> bother you that i am so ambitious, so FOR the advancement of Python!
I think Python's best interests are better served by a fair and steady
course, not impulse and hot decision.
> like to see python in more applications? Why do you even use Python.
> Do you feel you should give back or just take, take, take??? I have
> shared my feelings, let's hear yours.
IIRC there have been some 'Why do you like Python?' threads every so
often on the newsgroup. Hard to search for.
On Nov 27, 11:28 pm, r <rt8...@gmail.com> wrote:
> To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched
> for it...IS MADNESS!
Man is mad. No question. Preach on.
> Not one vote for Python, not a care.
Ask in a new thread, 'What do you like about Python?'. My favorites
are functions' being first-class objects, and variable-length argument
lists. +1 for Python.
> I think everyone here should look
> deep within their self and realize the damage that has been done
> today!
We can't. Man is mad. (See above.)
> I hope Guido's eyes never see this thread, for he may lose all
> hope in humanity.
Guido's just a man acting in what he perceives to be his own
interests. He wrote some of and conceived Python. I doubt this
thread would change many mens' opinions of humanity; optimism takes
years and decades to crush. It would not be clearly best to hide it
from his eyes, of course; it is not necessarily advisable to have hope
in humanity. Why Guido? Do you hope that Barack Obama's eyes never
see this thread? If only Guido because Python is his invention and
we're not devoted to it, he may be better off for it than the
alternatives, such as devotion. He can count on us to tell him what
his ideas are, not just praise them.
> "I am not scared to go up against the status quo".
I am against the status quo. I think you'd write better programs
cheaper if you wrote them in Python, outside of high-performance
ones. I think programming languages are new, and everyone says a
different one is best, so decision-makers are holding off on getting
behind one, and will probably choose the "middle way" when they do.
Is Python in the middle way? Possibly not, if for example it's too
sharp and innovative.
Your poem doesn't contain much besides 'boo for evil' and 'down with
bad'. I agree, of course, but there is more to say, not merely more
ways to say the same. Do you think, that if a college philosophy club
looked over your recent posts, they would find that you have spoken
just of Python? Are your arguments cogent and correct? Are your
premises mutually consistent? Are they consistent with observation?
Do you maintain that it is possible to value Python, and not value
Ruby almost as much or more?
P.S. 'thrust', 'desecrate', and 'scoundrels'... unless they're the UK
spellings.
P.P.S. Anyone have a partial characterization of 'T' above, in: "...a
particular leader or emblem with relation T to the community."?
Chris Rebert
>> and we're not throwing ourselves at your pet project because most of us don't give a monkey's toss about Sketchup. > Why should we put our time and energy into a piece of software that we don't care about?
>
> AGAIN, I'm NOT asking you to support SKETCHUP I am asking for support
> for PYTHON! Did you even read my entire OP?? Or did you just jump on
> Chris's bandwagon? Do you think for yourself, or do you follow blindly
> like a SHEEPLE??
>
Since when do I have a bandwagon? I made one purely informational post
and just said that I personally didn't really care one way or another
about SketchUp. I'm not particularly pro- or anti- your idea, I just
classified it as "personally irrelevant" but thought I'd point out one
possibly relevant fact to you to be helpful.
That's all.
There Is No Cabal.
Cheers,
Chris
Chris Rebert
> On Nov 27, 5:42 pm, r <rt8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 27, 5:38 pm, "Chris Rebert" <c...@rebertia.com> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:33 PM, r <rt8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > On Nov 27, 5:27 pm, "Chris Rebert" <c...@rebertia.com> wrote:
>> > >> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:18 PM, r <rt8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> > Hello fellow Python Advocates!
>> > >> > Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
>>
>> > >> > An introduction to SketchUp:
>> > >> > ====================
>> > >> > I don't know if you are familiar with "Google Sketchup". It is the
>> > >> > best 3d CAM program available.
>> > >> <snip>
>>
>> > >> > Credit where credit is do:
>> > >> > ==================
>> > >> > You know, Guidio van Rossum really nailed it when he created this
>> > >> > language. He took the best of everything he saw that was good and left
>> > >> > out everything he saw was bad (i think only one other entity has done
>> > >> > his before long ago...see Book of Genesis ;)
>>
>> > >> > Now if we could get Python into SketchUp this would be a win for
>> > >> > SketchUp, AND for Python.
>> > >> > Python would get more exposure, and SketchUP would be easier to use,
>> > >> > sticking to there policy above. And when people have a choice between
>> > >> > Python and Ruby... you and I both know who will win that
>> > >> > competition ;-).
>>
>> > >> > Now before you say..."don't tell us, tell the SketchUp DEV TEAM". I
>> > >> > have hinted at adding Python as a second scripting API, but what needs
>> > >> > to happen is to get a list together of people that use SketchUp or
>> > >> > good idea and submit it to the DEV TEAM.
>>
>> > >> > bad.
>>
>> > >> I don't really give a care about SketchUp, but just FYI, you are aware
>> > >> that Guido van Rossum and some other prominent Pythonistas are
>> > >> currently employed by Google, right?
>>
>> > >> Cheers,
>> > >> Chris
>> > >> --
>> > >> Follow the path of the Iguana...http://rebertia.com
>>
>> > >> > Thanks
>> > >> > --
>> > >> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>> > > Of course, but you are not suggesting that i bother Guido with this. I
>> > > am sure he is too busy.
>>
>> > No, obviously that was not my implication.
>> > - Chris
>>
>> > --
>> > Follow the path of the Iguana...http://rebertia.com
>>
>> Are you against promoting python?
>
> To merely say... "Well Guido and some high level Python people work at
> Google and if Python is not in SketchUp now it will never be"... is
> pretty self defeating to me. Weather you like SketchUp or not doesn't
You're putting words in my mouth. My intention was more, "Hey, there
are some prominent Python people working for Google. That should
probably help your cause.". However, given how the thread has evolved
so far, that now looks less than likely.
On the bright side, at least the scripting interface isn't in Java, right?
Cheers,
Chris
> matter. This is a call for a grass roots movement to further the
> incorporation of Python into a popular and useful app. I'm not asking
> for people to support SketchUp here...I am asking people to support
> Python. Of all Places in the world, there should be support here. I
> hope at least you care about Python.
>
> Sure this may blow under the rug but hey...doesn't hurt to try. My
> call was a "testing the waters" to see if there if fact are any Python-
> SketchUp fans here. Maybe your a Ruby fan, i don't know, but that
> would explain your quick disposal of the idea though.
> -food for thought-
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
--
Follow the path of the Iguana...
http://rebertia.com
r
mis-interpret the posters feelings(i have been guilty of this myself,
I took Chris's post the wrong way when he was clearly not being rude)
1.) Do i personally like Ruby? No
2.) Do i want to remove Ruby from the world? No
3.) Do i want to remove Ruby from SketchUp? No
4.) Do i find Python easier to learn than Ruby? IMHO, Yes
5.) Do i think other non-programmers will agree that Python is eaiser
to learn? IMHO, Yes
6.) Do i want to do away with ANY languge? No
7.) Do i want to promote Python, my favorite language? Yes
I now see how the remarks in my OP could be mis-interpreted the same
way i mis-interpreted Chris's reply to my OP. I hope from the above
Q&A will better convey my goals. All my goals are pure here. I simply
just wanted to submit a list of Python API advocates to the SketchUp
feature request forum. I admit that my wording could've been better.
No one is perfect. I am just passionate about Python.
Thanks
Ross Ridge
> Given three or four mis-spellings just in the "from:" header data...
Which were obviously intentional.
>This doesn't even pass as an attempt at humor...
I found it midly amusing, which is more than can be said for any other
post in this thread.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //
r
r
Aaron Brady
> Arron, i give you an A++ just for writing a longer post than me =D
Hey wow, lucky me. Maybe someone will read it too.
Дамјан Георгиевски
> you shall be free. FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!
SketchUp is not free
--
дамјан ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ )
war is peace
freedom is slavery
restrictions are enablement
r
NOT retract my words. And I will give you truthful answers for my
reasons.
People have said that i ripped Ruby in my promotion of Python. This
just IS NOT True. Lets go over the facts here, and let them speak
louder than words.
a.) does ruby include a redundant end statement? YES
b.) is print clearer than puts? YES, and sounds less 3rd graderish!
c.) is input clearer than gets? YES, again 3rd grade
d.) is elif more compact than elsif? YES, and your fingers will thank
you!
e.) is None clearer than nil? abso-freaking-lutly!
f.) should highlevel languages tow the load? YES
g.) should any language be cryptic? NO, use perl if your a
obstufaction nut!
h.) should you have to use funny symbols to access a varible, or
index? NO, use perl!
i.) should people react with thought and not emotion to usenet post?
YES
j.) if a language is easy to learn and uses the most simple and clear
syntax does that mean it is bad, or somehow less than another? NO,
that means it is innovative, smart, and Python
the only thing I honestly could see about Python that someone would
not like is the mandatory use of self. I personally did not like it at
first and lamented about it. But have gotten very use to it now. If
Guido removes this will i cry like a baby...NO, if he doesn't will i
leave Python...NO, where else would i go, there IS no competition to
Python!
As you can see every point I made about Ruby is true, I did NOT
falisfy any thing about the Ruby language, I don't need to it speaks
for it's self. No one can argue with the above stated facts unless YOU
are just a rabid fanboy for Ruby. Facts are Facts.
Wait there is probably one thing i should change though so my post is
more appropriate for this audiance.
the first line : Hello fellow Python Advocates!
should read : Hello fellow Ruby Advocates!
And think about this friends. If Guido thought Ruby was worth a crap
he would of adopted Rubys quarks, but Guido is no moron! You are the
kind of people who write unmaintainable code just so you can keep your
job. No one else wants to debug your garbage. Try instead to adopt a
quality mind set and you will never be short of work!
PS Arron, i DID read your entire post :)
greg
for Sketchup. I carried out a fairly major Sketchup
scripting exercise recently [1], and while it was fun,
I would have enjoyed it more if I'd been able to use
Python.
However, I think it's going to be a fairly tall order
to persuade the Sketchup developers to do this, since as
has been pointed out, it would cost them considerable
time and effort, and they would need to perceive a
correspondingly large benefit. I suspect it would take
either (a) a *lot* of people asking for it, or (b)
someone who is already enthusiastic about Python
joining the development team.
I wouldn't count on Guido being able to help much,
since he probably has little to no contact with or
influence over the people responsible for setting the
direction of Sketchup development. Google is a big
company, and AtLast is a subsidiary, not a part of
Google itself.
However, it might be possible for us to help ourselves
if we could embed a Python interpreter into a Ruby
extension module, and create our own Python wrappers
around the Ruby API. I'd be happy to discuss this idea
if you'd like to take it further.
[1] http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/marathup/index.html
--
Greg
r
You have made my week friend!
I had given up hope that anybody cared about Python!
Lie
> To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched
> for it...IS MADNESS!
>
> deep within their self and realize the damage that has been done
> hope in humanity. He only spent the last 18 years of his life pursuing
> this thing called Python. Maybe 1,2,3, years from now someone will see
> this thread and post a vote for Python. Maybe as simple as "I will
> fight for Python" , "I am not scared to go up against the status quo".
> For that day will be a glorious day. That day shall be Python Day!
> I will never give UP!
+1 for python to be used more
+1 for python to be used as scripting language on another app
+1 for python to be used as scripting langauge on a Google program
+1 for python to be used as scripting language on Sketchup
-4 for any sort of fanboyism
Lie
> On Nov 27, 10:28 pm, r <rt8...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched
> > for it...IS MADNESS!
>
> > Not one vote for Python, not a care. I think everyone here should look
> > deep within their self and realize the damage that has been done
> > today! I hope Guido's eyes never see this thread, for he may lose all
> > hope in humanity. He only spent the last 18 years of his life pursuing
> > this thing called Python. Maybe 1,2,3, years from now someone will see
> > this thread and post a vote for Python. Maybe as simple as "I will
> > fight for Python" , "I am not scared to go up against the status quo".
> > For that day will be a glorious day. That day shall be Python Day!
> > I will never give UP!
>
> Python throughout the world! sketchup is the first step,
> only the first step.
First step? Really? AFAIK, Python is already used in: OpenOffice.Org,
Blender, GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus, etc. I've never used these tools,
but I heard they also have python interface: AbiWord, Gnumeric.
Definitely not first step.
> it is really sad that the so-called
> Python supporters on this list don't really care about
> Python -- only money, and depravity. you and i and the
> other few, pure of heart, must fight for Python!!
> death to infidel ruby lovers!!!
> long live Guido!
> i pledge my life to Python and Guido!!!!!!!!!!!
r
there exist no "other" Python API's.
Aaron Brady
> > Python throughout the world! sketchup is the first step,
> > only the first step.
>
> First step? Really? AFAIK, Python is already used in: OpenOffice.Org,
> Blender, GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus, etc. I've never used these tools,
> but I heard they also have python interface: AbiWord, Gnumeric.
>
> Definitely not first step.
On Nov 30, 10:45 am, r <rt8...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The "first step" simply meant..."within this movement"...Not that
> there exist no "other" Python API's.
That's circular: Sketchup is the first step within the Sketchup
movement.
r
> That's circular: Sketchup is the first step within the Sketchup
> movement.
Dear God...I have entered the twilight zone! This is the Python
movement(comp.lang.python)? get it? To move you must first take a
step. Lest you never move.
"I" am the BDFL of the SketchUp-Python integration, So "I" will name
the movement. Unless Guido trumps me ;).
step 1. get Python into SketchUp
step 2. make stupidity painful
step 3. ...
PS At least you kept it short and sweet this time. =D
cptnw...@gmail.com
Richard Riley
> Don't feed the troll.
>
Yet you did and made the previous post visible to me.
If you don't want people to feed the troll, do not do it yourself.
r
Pay particular attention to the second paragraph.
Narcissistic culture
Main article: The Culture of Narcissism
Historian and social critic Christopher Lasch described this topic in
his book, "The Culture of Narcissism",[3] published in 1979. He
defines a narcissistic culture as one in which every activity and
relationship is defined by the hedonistic need to acquire the symbols
of spiritual wealth, this becoming the only expression of rigid, yet
covert, social hierarchies. It is a culture where liberalism only
exists insofar as it serves a consumer society, and even art, sex and
religion lose their liberating power.
In such a society of constant competition, there can be no allies, and
little transparency. The threats to acquisitions of social symbols are
so numerous, varied and frequently incomprehensible, that
defensiveness, as well as competitiveness, becomes a way of life. Any
real sense of community is undermined -- or even destroyed -- to be
replaced by virtual equivalents that strive, unsuccessfully, to
synthesize a sense of community. It can mean also many other things.
Contrary to Lasch, Bernard Stiegler argues in his book, Aimer,
s’aimer, nous aimer: Du 11 septembre au 21 avril, that consumer
capitalism is in fact destructive of what he calls primordial
narcissism, without which it is not possible to extend love to others.
-food for thought-
alex23
> In such a society of constant competition, there can be no allies, and
> little transparency. The threats to acquisitions of social symbols are
> so numerous, varied and frequently incomprehensible, that
> defensiveness, as well as competitiveness, becomes a way of life. Any
> real sense of community is undermined -- or even destroyed -- to be
> replaced by virtual equivalents that strive, unsuccessfully, to
> synthesize a sense of community. It can mean also many other things.
Right. Like we're going to take lessons in "community" from someone
who has done nothing to understand the one he's currently
antagonising.
> -food for thought-
I sincerely hope you choke on it.
ajaksu
more people like greg are able to see a good idea behind your awful
delivery.
Seriously, you're talking nonsense to people that have actively
promoted, taught, developed with and helped develop Python for years.
You're mistaking lack of support for your plea (to your format and
Ruby-bashing, mostly) for something completely different.
I wouldn't get a lot of supporters to the call of "HELP, Opera needs
to support Python in webpages", and would need to be crazy(ier) to
take any offense in that. So, you sound like a loony when you face
that situation with a "I'll fight for FREEDOM, against all you
turncoats, and I don't hate Ruby, that Satan spawn!".
Just pretend to be normal a little harder (many of us do it [like me
{and myself}]) and you'll be all set.
I'd like to try hacking some form of Python to work in SketchUp (on
top of Ruby, that is). Now, why won't I try to? I'm a Linux user and
we don't get a SU version. So much for FREEDOM. BTW, some things in SU
have encrypted Ruby code behind them :)
Anyway, if I could hack on it, I'd try to get the Ruby API talking to
Python. The main thing would be checking what RPy[0] and RubyPython[1]
can offer, hoping that Bridge[2] can still work its magic with the new
versions of SU. Given that people get WxRuby[3] and DLLs[4] working
with SU-Ruby, Python sounds feasible.
Good luck to anyone trying to get the software done :)
Cheers,
Daniel
[0] http://rubyforge.org/projects/rpy/
[1] http://rubypython.rubyforge.org/
[2] http://plugins.ro/labs/bridge_tut.htm
[3] http://wxsu.sourceforge.net/
[4] http://tinyurl.com/6h28rb
Aaron Brady
Off-topic post, defer. I'll take the summary to be true to Lasch's
original.
He states, "it is a culture where liberalism only exists insofar as it
serves a consumer society". But liberalism serves a consumer society
to a large, large extent.
He states, "...and religion lose their liberating power." But
religion has no liberating power.
The second sentence in the second paragraph presumably states, "The
threats [in such a society]...". If so, it states, In a society of
constant competition, competitiveness becomes a way of life; which is
trivial.
"The threats to acquisitions of social symbols are so numerous, varied
and frequently incomprehensible, that defensiveness, as well as
competitiveness, becomes a way of life."
Is the following also true? That is, the same of goods in general?
The threats to acquisitions of goods (presumably durable goods) are so
numerous, varied and frequently incomprehensible, that defensiveness,
as well as competitiveness, becomes a way of life.
If not, then define social symbols as distinct from goods,
specifically that the threats to their acquisitions are more numerous,
varied, and incomprehensible; or conclude the original is false, or
that defensiveness and competitiveness aren't bad.
Not to mention, you have to contrive the definitions in order to have
defensive( x ) and competitive( x ) both true.
Reminds me of Foucault... in the bad way.
James Mills
and my good friend alsex32 will know that
I tend to steer away from large pointless
conversation topics (for obvious reasons).
@OP: Listen ...
The best way you can support Python is to use Python.
The best way you can promote Python is to encourage others to try it.
Python is a fantastic language and development environment.
Enough said.
Just remember thought that if you threat Python like a
hammer, suddenly everything will look like a bail.
cheers
James
--
--
-- "Problems are solved by method"
r
Ok...you don't like my idea...so why keep responding?
ajaksu,
You insulted me and accused me of trolling, but it looks like your
interested. And you also included links. I think your really on board
and just can't say it yet *wink*. Thank You
Aaron,
I agree to disagree with you...although you make some good points...
and welcome your views on Lasch's reference to the pitfalls of a
Narcissistic society. At least you DO know how to engage in
intelligent conversation to the benefit of both parties, and not just
flame. Thank you
James,
By far the most positive post since Greg's. I agree with your overview
and welcome your constructive criticism. Thank You friend
So I would defiantly say things are starting to turn. The butterfly
effect is transforming my crazy idea to garner support for a SU Python
integration into maybe becoming reality. I still have hope! All i need
is one or two serious people and we could do this. I know you're out
there.
PS hey...even alex23's post are a little less mean. Either I am
wearing him down or he is beginning to believe :) I would love to have
you on board alex... i'm thinking... bouncer xD
alex23
> PS hey...even alex23's post are a little less mean. Either I am
> wearing him down or he is beginning to believe :)
Yes, my wishing your death by asphyxiation is "less mean" than my
original post suggesting you do some work.
Your lack of reading comprehension is another big indicator that
you're a troll.
Just die already.
r
r
Since you are alex23's friend, do the world a favor...PLEASE GET ALEX
LAID...before it's too late!
James Mills
--JamesMills
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
r
PS James, i will look through my contact list and send you a few
"easy" numbers... good luck :)
Craig Allen
> hammer, suddenly everything will look like a bail.
>
don't you mean if you use Python like a pitchfork?
r
r
6+BDFL - who would support my crazy idea, or think it -might- be ok
11 - who are on the fence
6 - who think this is a complete waste of time, a stupid idea, or just
simply want to kill me
-> from these stats i can deduce the following:
total_members_comp.lang.python = 14433
note: I will be fair and remove spammers or members that don't follow
this list anymore by dividing the total number in half.(this should be
generous enough)
total_actual_members = (14433/2) = 7214
total_num_responders = 11
->current stats: <11>
percentFor = 31
percentNay = 27
percentOnFence = 40
->Forecast of turnout: <7214>
potentialFors = 2,236.34
potentialConverts = 2,885.34
totalPotentials = 5,121.68
even if only 10% of these act...that is 512 people. I still have hope!
import hope
while hope.amt > 0:
continue
James Mills
<benjami...@case.edu> wrote:
> other, so that seems more likely to me.
Haha that was my bad typing :)
--JamesMills
James Mills
Good luck with your endeavours!
I have a hard enough time convincing my work colleagues to use
anything other than PHP for everything!
Here PHP is the Hammer / Pitchfork!
--JamesMills
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
r
Aaron Brady
> I added you name to my "for" list. thanks
+1 entertaining thread.
r
I'd like to touch also on some comments by ajaksu:
[ajaksu]
I'd like to try hacking some form of Python to work in SketchUp (on
top of Ruby, that is). Now, why won't I try to? I'm a Linux user and
we don't get a SU version. So much for FREEDOM. BTW, some things in
SU
have encrypted Ruby code behind them :)
[/ajaksu]
You CAN use SketchUp on Linux...ajaksu...thru Wine, but I know this is
not good enough. I would love to see FULL SketchUp support for linux
and I HAVE made my voice heard. I urge you brother to make make your
voice heard also.
Go to this thread and let your voice be heard:
http://groups.google.com/group/sketchupsuggestions/browse_thread/thread/7c0c810b88ad4d5/dfabe1e01bab12b3?hl=en#dfabe1e01bab12b3
This is the reason...amoung many others...that Linux has yet to take
any noticable market from MS. Linux could...If the Linux devolpers
would ban together and unite to make package managment and portability
between all *nix's universal, OR one great linux distro that the
average dummy can use(ubuntu looks promising, but still has a long way
to go)...compete with microsoft on a grand level. We have to steal the
idiots from under microsoft's feet, and they will come crumbling down.
But as long as a poor n00b installs his shiny new *nix system and
can't even connect to the network to see the latest janet jackson
"wardrobe malfunction", or fiqure out how to mount a flash drive,
Linux will be nothing more than our beloved oddessy.
There will NEVER be good support on linux for most applications,
games, etc... Until people start to get behind linux and support it.
Now you say, well i don't have time to support this, my life is too
busy, my back hurts. I say stop making excuses. You DON'T have to
invest your life, just simply make your voice heard.(myself and other
dedicated people will tow the load). But at least get off your bum and
do something.
It's time to change the world, the hour is upon us, Microsoft is
asleep at the wheel, the time for revolution is NOW!
Lie
> "If we can laugh what else would we do"
>
> I'd like to touch also on some comments by ajaksu:
> [ajaksu]
> I'd like to try hacking some form of Python to work in SketchUp (on
> top of Ruby, that is). Now, why won't I try to? I'm a Linux user and
> we don't get a SU version. So much for FREEDOM. BTW, some things in
> SU
> have encrypted Ruby code behind them :)
> [/ajaksu]
>
> You CAN use SketchUp on Linux...ajaksu...thru Wine, but I know this is
> not good enough. I would love to see FULL SketchUp support for linux
> and I HAVE made my voice heard. I urge you brother to make make your
> voice heard also.
>
>
> This is the reason...amoung many others...that Linux has yet to take
> any noticable market from MS. Linux could...If the Linux devolpers
> would ban together and unite to make package managment and portability
> between all *nix's universal, OR one great linux distro that the
> average dummy can use(ubuntu looks promising, but still has a long way
> to go)...compete with microsoft on a grand level. We have to steal the
> idiots from under microsoft's feet, and they will come crumbling down.
> But as long as a poor n00b installs his shiny new *nix system and
> can't even connect to the network to see the latest janet jackson
> "wardrobe malfunction", or fiqure out how to mount a flash drive,
> Linux will be nothing more than our beloved oddessy.
>
> There will NEVER be good support on linux for most applications,
> games, etc... Until people start to get behind linux and support it.
> Now you say, well i don't have time to support this, my life is too
> busy, my back hurts. I say stop making excuses. You DON'T have to
> invest your life, just simply make your voice heard.(myself and other
> dedicated people will tow the load). But at least get off your bum and
> do something.
>
> It's time to change the world, the hour is upon us, Microsoft is
> asleep at the wheel, the time for revolution is NOW!
Action speaks louder than words.
Not that I have done anything than talking lately though.
For Google to implement a huge feature like python scripting, they
would want to calculate its business feasibility (though Google is one
of the rare companies that is extremely lax on this side). Sketchup's
target users is not power users but those who need quick sketches, so
scripting isn't an extremely important feature in Sketchup. Moreover,
if they implement python scripting because someone wants it, other
languages would demand the same.
So, it does have to start from you creating a python-extension and
getting enough users to make Google think: "There are much more python
programmers than Ruby programmers in Sketchup, implementing python
scripting would be a sound decision."
r
Sketchup's target users is not power users but those who need quick
sketches, so scripting isn't an extremely important feature in
Your Wrong, SketchUp PRO is marketed at ACAD users and other high
profile CAD and CAM applications. SketchUp models can be exported to
ACAD and ACAD models can be imported to SketckUp. Anyone who would say
scripting is not important to a modeler has never spent much time
modeling. Scripting is of upmost importance to the usefulness of
SketchUP(or any CAD/CAM app), without it more advanced modeler types
would not be interested. As far as Google earth goes...that is more a
marketing ploy, and that Google is a cool company, rather than the
primary use for SketchUP...and it has worked well!
Your Right, creating a Python extension and getting people interested,
is the gateway to convincing SketchUp DEV to include Python alongside
Ruby.(and even if they don't it won't matter once the wrapping is
there). I hang out a lot in the SketchUp Ruby Group, and a lots of
people are turned off by Ruby. I think Python could help them get
going. This is the reason for my crusade. Not just for me...but
because there is a real void python can fill in SketchUp. Once there
is a python wrapping of Ruby API I will take over, writing tutorials,
writing example code, fielding Python related questions...This is my
commitment to this project. I AM willing to work extremely hard to
make this happen. If just ONE other person would get on board this
will happen.
No...I DO NOT know how to wrap the Ruby API myself...but once the
Python wrapping is there i will take over and bring this to life. From
that point on, i will not need any help. I will maintain the code, And
i will be happy to let this person(s) take ALL the credit for bringing
Python to SketchUp...I do not want the credit.