learning python...
Benjamin.Altman
experience, would anyone know if O'reillys "Learning Python" book would
be better than say Prentice Hall's "Core Python Programming"? Or would
it be better to go straight into something like "Programming Python"?
Thanks,
Ben
Benjamin.Altman
Ken Seehof
"Learning Python" is somewhat easier to read than "Programming
Python" while being more compact too.
The only material that I noticed in "Programming Python" that is
missing from "Learning Python" is the extending and embedding
stuff, which is an advanced topic that you probably don't need to
worry about quite yet.
Mark Lutz applied his experience from writing "Programming
Python" to "Learning Python", so it's simply a better book.
I haven't read "Core Python Programming".
Daniel Klein
walks you thru all of the basics of the language, and then some. The book is
dated so it does not cover some of the more recent additions to the language
like list comprehensions and new string methods (like join()), etc.
Personally, from the standpoint of an experienced programmer, I found 'The
Quick Python Book' provided an accelerated introduction along with some
additional advanced concepts. From there, I would recommend "Programming
Python 2nd Ed." as well as the indispensible "Python Essential Reference"
(altho I think a new edition is in the works so you might want to wait for
that).
I've also got "Core Python Programming" and if I had to review it, I would
say that it tries to be all things to everyone but never quite hits the
mark. The examples always seem to fall short of what you are really looking
for. The author seems to explain the fundamental stuff very well but just as
it starts to get interesting, the section/chapter ends. I think instead of
using extra thick paper and large fonts to give the visual appearance of an
impressive body of work, the author should have provided a bit more detail
in some of the more advanced areas like network programming.
I hope some of this help.
Dan
"Benjamin.Altman" <benjami...@noaa.gov> wrote in message
news:3AB8ECB5...@noaa.gov...
Simon Kesenci
_Python_ last year, but it covered version 1.3. A good book if they
updated it since then. As a programmer, you should find the online
tutorial easy and helpful <http://python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html>.
--S.
Bubba Brains
use python once every couple months, and sometimes forget the simple python
syntax. The Learning Python book is great for getting up to speed fast, and
to look up common stuff. The other OReilly book (Programming Python) is
absolutely annoying to use. It's not even a good reference book (good luck
finding the info you want quickly). Don't know about the Prentice book.
M
http://www.mp3.com/maddogskullcap
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Joshua Marshall
> Forget Learning Python? I think it's the best reference/tutorial around. I
> use python once every couple months, and sometimes forget the simple python
> syntax. The Learning Python book is great for getting up to speed fast, and
> to look up common stuff. The other OReilly book (Programming Python) is
> absolutely annoying to use. It's not even a good reference book (good luck
> finding the info you want quickly). Don't know about the Prentice book.
I agree about Programming Python. It _is_ a great book for
programmers to use to learn Python, but it can be tedious to try look
up something specific.
Remco Gerlich
I thought Learning Python was a very good introduction, I was a CS student
with experience in several languages. There are a few things to you need to
"get" once about Python, and the book explains them well. It doesn't go very
deep, but then, there's not that much to know, Python is simplicity.
Programming Python I found a bit chaotic, never really used it much.
Don't know Core Python Programming.
--
Remco Gerlich
Aahz Maruch
Bubba Brains <choc...@toblerone.yum> wrote:
>
>Forget Learning Python? I think it's the best reference/tutorial around. I
>use python once every couple months, and sometimes forget the simple python
>syntax. The Learning Python book is great for getting up to speed fast, and
>to look up common stuff. The other OReilly book (Programming Python) is
>absolutely annoying to use. It's not even a good reference book (good luck
>finding the info you want quickly). Don't know about the Prentice book.
If you look at http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/python2/ you'll see that
Programming Python just got a second edition; I've heard that there were
a lot of improvements.
--
--- Aahz <*> (Copyright 2001 by aa...@pobox.com)
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
"I won't accept a model of the universe in which free will, omniscient
gods, and atheism are simultaneously true." -- M
Timothy Grant
> Python 2nd Ed." as well as the indispensible "Python Essential Reference"
> (altho I think a new edition is in the works so you might want to wait for
> that).
I'm am searching for a review of PP2nd. Is it a significantly
different book from PP1st?
Also. I'd love to see a new version of Beazley's book. I know
that Ivan isn't reading this list at the moment, but I found
the colophon of PER to be a fascinating and enjoyable bit of
reading. Hope he gets to do something in the update too.
--
Stand Fast,
tjg.
Timothy Grant t...@exceptionalminds.com
Red Hat Certified Engineer www.exceptionalminds.com
Avalon Technology Group, Inc. <>< (503) 246-3630
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Linux, because rebooting is *NOT* normal<<<<<<<<<
>>>>This machine was last rebooted: 64 days 1 hours ago<<
Benoit Dupire
Simon Kesenci wrote:
> If you know programming, forget _Learning_ _Python_. I tried _Programming_
> _Python_ last year, but it covered version 1.3. A good book if they
> updated it since then. As a programmer, you should find the online
> tutorial easy and helpful <http://python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html>.
Programming Python was updated and now covers Python 2.0
I am reading it, actually, and, till now, I find it great.. (but I am only page
35! ;o) ).
This edition is intended to be the 'sequel' to " Learning Python"... so yes,
you can try to read the Python tutorial and this book...
Benjamin.Altman
indexing? I have heard from a few people that it is difficult to look up things in
the 1st edition. The only review on amazon of the 2nd ed. claims it is a complete
rewrite despite his admitance that he has never read the book...
Thanks,
Ben
Benjamin.Altman
the topics added) to the 1st ed. The only review on Amazon says he never read it...
Ben
Benoit Dupire
Benjamin Altman wrote:
> Do you know how it compares to the first edition in terms of presentation and
> indexing? I have heard from a few people that it is difficult to look up things in
> the 1st edition. The only review on amazon of the 2nd ed. claims it is a complete
> rewrite despite his admitance that he has never read the book...
>
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
Yes, I also found "programming Python", 1st edition, from Mark Lutz, difficult to
read...
it was the most complete book at the time it was written. I still think it's the most
complete and the more advanced book about Python (I did not see any others.., tell me
if I am wrong). The 2nd chapter, which was intended to be a 'sneak preview of Python'
or 'a view from 10.000 feet' was very long, and tedious to understand.. I guess that
10000 feet, it's too high for my poor stomach. There were even backward references to
this chapter from many other chapters... The other pb, you mentionned it, was the
organization... but it was not intended to be a reference book...rather a 'linear
book'.
The second edition seems to be better organized, but once again, Ive just read a small
fraction of it.
Anyway, it is stated in the introduction that it is still not a reference book. The
book presents Python's libraries, tools and programming techniques. Its aim is "how to
use the Core language in applications." So, there are some big examples...
Anyway the book is intended for those who already know the Core Language and want to
see some applications using it...
the book was refocused, since the 1st edition, and it is not aimed at beginners (it's
why you have to read the 'leaning Python' book first).
I was therefore happy to see that 'The view from 10000 feet' was removed, and chapter 2
is now fun to read, because it presents the libraries, so it's not so steep,....so,
good work, Mark!
The book is going to take me a few weeks to read, though, as it is 1200 pages long, but
seems very promising.. and yes, it was completely rewritten...
Lee, Jaeho
> say that it tries to be all things to everyone but never quite hits the
> mark. The examples always seem to fall short of what you are really
looking
> for. The author seems to explain the fundamental stuff very well but just
as
> it starts to get interesting, the section/chapter ends. I think instead of
> using extra thick paper and large fonts to give the visual appearance of
an
> impressive body of work, the author should have provided a bit more detail
> in some of the more advanced areas like network programming.
I was looking a second Python book in addition to "Programming Python 1". I
could not wait PP2. When I scan "Core Python Programming" through, my
impression is that "too small contents compared with the thickness of the
book". It contains about half of the contents that PP1, I think. And the
explanation is not that great. So I did not buy it. I did not read it
through. But I don't think it is worth to read.
My case, I read PP1 and using "python reference manual" as reference (as the
name says ^^). PP1 taught me how python is different from other language.
But I agree that it is not good for reference. I am waiting PP2 now. So I
can not say about it.
/Jaeho
Don Tuttle
> I'm am searching for a review of PP2nd. Is it a significantly
> different book from PP1st?
It's almost a total re-write. I'm only a short way in PP2E but have already
found it very heplful. Buy a copy and see for yourself. ;-) BookPool.com
has it for about 43% off.
> Also. I'd love to see a new version of Beazley's book.
Python Essential Reference 2nd Edition to be released in June.
Don
LLe...@oreilly.com
The 2nd edition of Programming Python is in fact significantly different (80% I would say). Mark talks about the differences between editions in his Preface (which is why folks that have read the new one, and not the old one, know about how the book has evolved). If you go to the link Aahz has provided for the book on our site, you can check out the table of contents. If you compare it to the 1st edition's, you'll see that the approach is new. The book moves quickly into tools and applications.
Laura
LLe...@oreilly.com
==================================
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Linux Programmer's Site
Daniel Klein
love it and those who hate and everything inbetween. If you want to get
information, this is the best place to get it.
The 2nd edition of Programming Python is a great tutorial and has an
enormous store of example code but is self proclaimed as 'not being for the
beginner as this material is covered in Learning Python'.
Dan
"Benjamin.Altman" <benjami...@noaa.gov> wrote in message
news:3AB9182A...@noaa.gov...
Wesley Chun
"Learning Python" was a welcomed 3rd main Python book to hit the market.
Some people complained that it over-expected its readers to know C, but
since it did, it suited me fine. I found "Programming
Python" to be too large for me when i was learning
Python. It was difficult to learn from even though it was so complete.
I spoke with Mark Lutz about the 2nd edition, and it was indeed a com-
plete rewrite. My copy is on order, so I haven't had a chance to go
thru it yet.
"Core Python Programming"'s target audience is a someone with previous
knowledge of some other high-level programming language, perhaps C or
Java, but does not require that knowledge as part of the reading. in
the text, it will say something like, "if you are familiar with...,"
but otherwise will not penalize you if you don't. the goal is to get
a programmer new to Python up-to-speed as quickly as possible, hence
sacrificing more of the advanced applications, as Daniel mentioned in his
post. hopefully, we'll correct that when it is time to work on the 2nd
edition. if you're a Python guru, it'll definitely be too boring for you!
i made a related post back in November:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=books&hl=en&rnum=1&seld=963817644&ic=1
hope this helps!
-wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Silicon Valley-SF Bay Area Python users group: http://baypiggies.org
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall PTR, December 2000
http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/
wesley.j.chun :: we...@baypiggies.org
cyberweb.consulting :: silicon.valley, ca
http://www.roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/
Don Tuttle
> Pay no attention to Amazon reviews. You are ALWAYS going to get people who
> love it and those who hate and everything inbetween. If you want to get
> information, this is the best place to get it.
BTW, I complained to Amazon a week ago about all the old first edition
reviews being included in the 2nd edition's listing. They have now created
a different page for the 2nd edition. So it's a clean slate. Why not post
a review yourself? I intend to as soon as I've finished reading it. (Which
might be awhile given my penchant for reading 5 or more books at once. ;-)
Don
Daniel Klein
wrote:
>> additional advanced concepts. From there, I would recommend "Programming
>> Python 2nd Ed." as well as the indispensible "Python Essential Reference"
>> (altho I think a new edition is in the works so you might want to wait for
>> that).
>
>I'm am searching for a review of PP2nd. Is it a significantly
>different book from PP1st?
PP2nd is BIG book with a lot of information. Personnally I think it's too new
for anyone to have read (and absorbed) the entire book enough to review it
fairly. However, I have already used several examples from the book in my own
code and I am pleased so far.
>Also. I'd love to see a new version of Beazley's book. I know
>that Ivan isn't reading this list at the moment, but I found
>the colophon of PER to be a fascinating and enjoyable bit of
>reading. Hope he gets to do something in the update too.
I understand that one will be published in June.
Dan
Fredrik Lundh
> Why not post a review yourself? I intend to as soon as I've finished
> reading it. (Which might be awhile given my penchant for reading 5
> or more books at once. ;-)
at 1,200 pages, reading PP2e is pretty much like reading five
or more books at once (there's *lots* of stuff in there...)
Cheers /F
Lloyd Sommerer
(programming experience, no python experience). After looking at most of
the python books, I decided to go with _Python_Essential _Reference_. It's
10 page introduction and 70 pages of more indepth material were just what I
needed to get a feel for python. The rest of the book is about 200 pages
of material on various library modules.
The whole thing is well organized, and it was easy to vaguely recall where
some bit of information was when I needed to look something up. You'll
also need the online documentation, and I found the way ActiveState
includes it in their python distribution to be quite helpful.
One final bit of advice: When you're wondering how to use a specific
module, the best documentation is very often within the module itself. I
didn't actually come across that advice anywhere, and it would have helped
me to have known it sooner.
Lloyd Sommerer
Harry George
If you already program in several languages (e.g., are familiar with
scripting, objects, method overrides, and lisp-ish map/apply/etc.),
you may be able to learn python from that book (plus looking at code
examples for good idioms). Basically, you would be looking up python
syntax for things you already understand in principle.
If Essential Python leaves you guessing, the Quick Python Book might
fill in the gaps.
"Benjamin.Altman" <ben@.> writes:
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Remco Gerlich
> One final bit of advice: When you're wondering how to use a specific
> module, the best documentation is very often within the module itself. I
> didn't actually come across that advice anywhere, and it would have helped
> me to have known it sooner.
And all of that info is now available on http://www.pydoc.org under "Module
Documentation by PyDoc". All the docstrings extracted from the code. Pretty
cool.
--
Remco Gerlich
Patrick Curtain
retain the vi keybindings. :) Yes, we're strange.
--p
--
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chris
"Core Python Programming "from PH is easily the better book for easing into
Python. I am an O'Reilly fan and generally buy their books blind if it is
on a subject I am interested in (since they very rarely disappoint).
However on this occassion the PH book is a genuinely good book and worth
buying, considerably more than the Learning Python book and the 2e version
of Programming Python.
My opinion!
Chris
Benjamin.Altman
Python would be more up to date?
Thanks,
Ben
Steve Lamb
wrote:
>What about the aspect of it covering a version less than 2.0 when
>Programming Python would be more up to date?
Actually, for <2.0 learning for someone who has programming experience I'd
say go with the Beazley Book, Python Essential Reference. It is a concise,
well written reference book on the language. It doesn't try to teach
programming, it is a reference to the Python language with enough attentioned
paid to how to program in Python for the experienced programmer to pick it up
quite quickly.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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