Hello All, I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ? Thanks for any help. eeykay
On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 19:00, eey...@gmail.com wrote: > Hello All, > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
My understanding is that you're dead safe with Python its self, as AFAIK you can even bundle (possibly modified) the Python sourcecode into your application. You'd simply need to keep an eye on the licenses of any extensions you used, like ReportLab, PIL, mx, database interfaces, twisted, etc. Many are licensed under the same license as Python or an MIT-like license, but of course some Python extensions are not and you would need to consider that.
> Hello All, > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ? > Thanks for any help. > eeykay
> <eey...@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1104750017.235937.181370@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Hello All, > > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He > > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any > > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence > > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there > > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ? > > Thanks for any help. > > eeykay
Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure available (http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that the program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the GUI), and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very interesting stuff :)
At Sunrise Software International, we build commercial applications for Cabletron and the Florida DMV. This was ~10 years ago; so no useful docs available, but we had no problems with license.
-----Original Message----- From: Richards Noah (IFR LIT MET) [mailto:Noah.Richa...@infineon.com] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 12:20 PM To: python-l...@python.org Subject: Re: Developing Commercial Applications in Python
> <eey...@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1104750017.235937.181370@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Hello All, > > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He > > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any > > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence > > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there > > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ? > > Thanks for any help. > > eeykay
Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure available (http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that the program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the GUI), and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very interesting stuff :)
> Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure available > (http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that the > program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the GUI), > and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very > interesting stuff :)
It was actually developed in Fortran some 35 years ago. Then migrated to F77. Then added a C/C++ layer to sit ontop. Then converted to API based. Then added a Python layer on top.
The only thing unfortunate is that they went with MFC on the newest version. Yuck!
>I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He >is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any >good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence >clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there >any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
Are you looking to embed Python as a scripting language or to write the software in Python? -- Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
"19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing." --Alan Perlis
> > Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure available > > (http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that > the > > program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the > GUI), > > and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very > > interesting stuff :)
> It was actually developed in Fortran some 35 years ago. Then migrated to > F77. Then added a C/C++ layer to sit ontop. Then converted to API based. > Then added a Python layer on top.
> The only thing unfortunate is that they went with MFC on the newest version. > Yuck!
Hahaha, sounds like a party to me. And they didn't even throw in a layer of Lisp for good effort? Too bad, if you ask me :)
> I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications.
We are in a weird catch-22 type situation here. Because the license is so open, companies that use Python just use it. No payment, no curtesy registration, no verifiable trace unless they care to disclose (and most don't).
The license could be paraphrased as "Don't sue us or do anything that would cause anyone else to sue us and we won't sue you." There is a posted request for thank you donations but not enough commercial users do so to even hire one full time programmer, let alone a lawyer (above the bare minimum required for PSF to legally function). The PSF is about as far from the RIAA and MPAA as possible.
There are Python Success Stories at the Python site and elsewhere (try Google on the newsgroup. You could also agree to be responsible for any legal action initiated by the PSF not due to obvious malfeance, like trying to register a copyright on the Python source. Or you could suggest that they purchase a license with a donation to the PSF.
> > It was actually developed in Fortran some 35 years ago. Then migrated to > > F77. Then added a C/C++ layer to sit ontop. Then converted to API > based. > > Then added a Python layer on top.
> > The only thing unfortunate is that they went with MFC on the newest > version. > > Yuck!
> Hahaha, sounds like a party to me. And they didn't even throw in a layer of > Lisp for good effort? Too bad, if you ask me :)
eey...@gmail.com wrote: > Hello All, > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ? > Thanks for any help. > eeykay
At CSB-System AG, we use Python extensively as embedded scripting language throughout the ERP system we develop (fields of application: system automation, GUI scripting, programmable user exits, reporting, data access/replication, autotests, and apart from that, everywhere we need something done fast ;-).
I'm sure that its liberal license was among the main drivers to use it in the first place!
It's me wrote: > Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software.
... but the "Python Powered" logo is conspicuous by its absence from their site. Too bad that some commercial exploiters of Python don't advertise that fact more often. Every little bit helps!
Stephen Waterbury <stephen.c.waterb...@nasa.gov> wrote:
>> Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software.
>... but the "Python Powered" logo is conspicuous by its >absence from their site. Too bad that some commercial >exploiters of Python don't advertise that fact more often.
Companies use all sorts of technologies to produce their products. I have no idea who Shaw-PTI is or what they do, but I'm sure they also use other languages, and web servers, and operating systems, and telephones and office furniture and pencil sharpeners. They're all just tools. You don't expect a company to waste space on their web site advertising which brand of pencil sharpener they use, so why would you expect they would do so for a programming language?
Sometimes you see web sites with "Powered by IBM" or "Powered by Sun" or whatever. I'm sure behind every one of those is a deal cut with the supplier to promote their name in return for some favorable terms on a contract.
eey...@gmail.com wrote: > Hello All, > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ? > Thanks for any help. > eeykay
No. The Python license explicitly allows you to distribute derived works (i.e. Python applications including the standard compiler, or modified versions of the compiler) without obliging you to disclose the source code in the way that the GPL does.
The only obligation the license places on you are
a) You must retain the original copyright notices and b) If you *do* distribute modified versions, you must include a brief description of your modifications.
I believe the Python License Version 2, as found at
is about as simple as a license can get, yet still the Foundation receives inquiries from people whose lawyers are unconvinced there are no hidden problems. Of course, IANAL, so the lawyers could be right, but at least the INTENT is pretty obvious.
Also beware if you plan to use "The Python License" for your own software, and read
if you are thinking of doing so. Of course, there are many contributions which were licensed to the Foundation for inclusion in the distribution. The Foundation is currently in the process of regularizing the "license stack" thus created, by negotiating with individual contributors to ensure that a compatible license is initially granted to the PSF.
Nothing is currently believed to prohibit the Foundation from licensing current releases on the terms that it does, but I should include a disclaimer that this is *not* an official statement from the Foundation, rather an explanation from one of its directors (an all-too-fallible human being) about what's lately been happening in the licensing space.
eey...@gmail.com wrote: > Hello All, > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ? > Thanks for any help. > eeykay
Troika games use Python in their games. It seems you can even get the source .py files for Vampires: Bloodlines :)
"It's me" <it...@yahoo.com> writes: > Well, now that they are API based, they can easily add any script language > they so wish through SWIG (www.swig.org).
> Maybe not LISP. SNOBOL would be the right thing to do. (*NOT*)
SWIG generates wrappers for GUILE, which is Scheme, which looks enough like LISP to fool most people. It's the GNU extensible embeddable language.
<mike -- Mike Meyer <m...@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
>> Hello All, >> I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. >> He is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point >> me any good commercial applications developed using python ?. The >> licence clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. >> Is there any other implications like that of GPL to make the source >> open ? Thanks for any help. eeykay > Troika games use Python in their games. It seems you can even get the > source .py files for Vampires: Bloodlines :)
Absolutely - it's a slightly modified version of 2.1.2. Troika also used Python for the Temple of Elemental Evil.
I even compiled psyco to work with Bloodlines and modified the .py source to call it - worked perfectly well, but didn't give me any significant performance improvement :( I'm CPU limited, so I thought it was worth a try.
I'm wondering if I can hack Python 2.4 into Bloodlines ... the biggest problem is that Bloodlines used .vpk files for packaging, and I believe the major modifications to 2.1 are to allow these to be read. I've already extracted all of these though ...
eey...@gmail.com writes: > Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications > developed using python ?
Python is used in several games, including Temple of Elemental Evil and the forthcoming Civilization 4. Humungous Games, which makes software for children, is also using Python. Sorry if games would give your boss the wrong impression...
Most commercial software houses don't advertise details of their development platforms.
Nick
-- # sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
>> Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications >> developed using python ?
> Python is used in several games, including Temple of Elemental Evil > and the forthcoming Civilization 4. Humungous Games, which makes > software for children, is also using Python. Sorry if games would give > your boss the wrong impression...
Also "Startrek Bridge Commander", and "Uru: Ages beyond Myst".
Actually, your statement is slightly inaccurate. The Verity search engine is more than fifteen years old in its core technology; it was started as a LISP project at IIRC MIT. (At one point I was much amused to look at the C source code and find car() and cdr() functions.) As of my last information, Python isn't used at all in or with the Verity search engine. What you're referring to is the Verity Ultraseek engine, originally written and owned by Infoseek before getting transferred to Verity through a series of dot-bomb transactions. The Ultraseek engine doesn't use Python, but Python is used to control the engine, and I think much of the spider is written in Python. -- Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
"19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing." --Alan Perlis
> Actually, your statement is slightly inaccurate. The Verity search > engine is more than fifteen years old in its core technology; it was > started as a LISP project at IIRC MIT. (At one point I was much amused > to look at the C source code and find car() and cdr() functions.) As of > my last information, Python isn't used at all in or with the Verity > search engine. What you're referring to is the Verity Ultraseek engine, > originally written and owned by Infoseek before getting transferred to > Verity through a series of dot-bomb transactions. The Ultraseek engine > doesn't use Python, but Python is used to control the engine, and I think > much of the spider is written in Python.
Actually, Aahz didn't add anything useful that wasn't explained better in the article itself, pointing to which was the purpose of my post, but he is correct: Python was *not* used to write the Verity search engine ... how the hell do these stupid rumors get started anyhow?? ;). Just read the article, dammit! :)
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