O'Reilly Python Books
W S
I find the material, as presented, in the book Programming Python
frustrating and extremely difficult to understand.
Are the nutshell and cookbook O'Reilly Python books easier to read?
I'm fairly new to programming but trying to learn. I have read Learning
Python, Core Python, Python Bible and a bunch of perl books
Thanks,
Wilfred.
Dave Benjamin
W S wrote:
> Are the nutshell and cookbook O'Reilly Python books easier to read?
I just got my copy of the Python Cookbook over the weekend, and I love it so
far. I don't think I'd recommend it for a beginner, but I do find it easy to
read. ;)
> I'm fairly new to programming but trying to learn. I have read Learning
> Python, Core Python, Python Bible and a bunch of perl books
Learning Python is good book, very helpful but a bit outdated. I've heard
good things about the Nutshell book, but I haven't read that one yet. I will
say that Nutshell books in general aren't good introductory texts either,
they're much better as references.
Steve Holden's "Python Web Programming" has a great introduction to the
Python language, as well as relational database design and web applications,
if you're into web stuff. I was surprised at how much introductory material
he covered, and his writing style is easy for me.
Also, don't forget, sometimes the best things in life are free:
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
Peace,
Dave
Tim Daneliuk
I highly recommend:
The tutorial that comes with the language
then,
http://www.hetland.org/python/instant-python.php
then,
http://www.diveintopython.org/
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/TundraWare.PGP.Keys.txt
Scott Chapman
I read http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/ and went to Python Essential
Reference (New Riders).
I'm still working on OOP so I read the Tao of Objects. It's dated and
examples are in C++ and TurboPascal but I found the information useful.
Anyone else have good recommends regarding OOP books, especially focusing on
Python?
Scott
car...@tjc.com
wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I find the material, as presented, in the book Programming Python
>frustrating and extremely difficult to understand.
>
>Are the nutshell and cookbook O'Reilly Python books easier to read?
I really dislike the "Programming Python" book.[1] After playing
around unstructuredly with Python for a few days. I bought it and the
New Riders "Python Essential Reference." I found the PET valuable
(although it's a reference, not a tutorial), and didn't find
"Programming Python" worthwhile at all.
"Learning Python," (which is co-authored by author of "Programming
Python,") on the other hand, is, in my opinion, excellent.
My recommendation is to start with two books, one as a tutorial, and
one as a reference. I think "Learning Python" is outstanding as a
tutorial. Since you have that already, I'd work through that. I
don't offhand know the contents of the other two books you have ("Core
Python" and "Python Bible"), although I've browsed them in bookstores.
From memory, I think they would suffice for good references. The
Nutshell also would. For me, it's the Python Essential Reference.
When you're comfortable with basic Python, maybe you want further
books that better explain a particular area that you find of interest
(say, XML or Tkinter for those features, or the Cookbook for general
advanced topics).
I've been playing with Python for a few months now (which you can take
either as a warning that I might not know what I'm talking about, or
as data that I'm close to the same audience as you are), and just
ordered the Nutshell and Cookbook a couple days ago.
[1] My major objection to Programming Python is that 1) part of it's
too advanced to be a good tutorial; 2) it's not properly organized to
be a good reference; and 3) too many sections of it depend on having
read all the prior sections, which is somewhat acceptable for a
tutorial, but really falls short for a book where you're going to skip
around -- the examples aren't very self-contained. It seems you have
to feign interest in the packer application that is introduced at the
beginning of the book, and follow through how it's developed, or else
you won't understand what the book is talking about when it starts
talking about adding menus. Too much of a time investment reading all
that unnecessary information, just to follow parts of the example that
have nothing to do with menus. It seems the whole book operates more
as a case study, requiring an inordinate amount of time to learn the
case (which I don't care about) in order to learn about the features
tried to be explained.
In fairness, here's a review that just *loves* "Programming Python,"
calling it "a work of art": http://www.awaretek.com/programpython.html
So opinions can vary. But when I gave my views of "Programming
Python" on the Python Tutor list, I got a lot of "Me, too" posts. I
suspect that, to someone familiar with Python, it looks like it would
be a useful book to a novice; the actual novices seem to disagree,
though.
(The "case study" issue I describe above, which I consider a "bug,"
the above review considers to be a feature: "Many of the example
scripts and programs build on one another from chapter to chapter,
which helps to give the book a narrative flavor and hold the reader's
attention." I would say "many of the example scripts and programs
build on one another from chapter to chapter, making it difficult to
isolate and understand a feature being introduced, without going back
and reading or rereading prior material in which the reader has no
interest.")
I was really expecting "Programming Python" to be to Python what
"Programming Perl" is to Perl: a pretty good reference, with lots of
(independent!) examples and occasional descents into tutorial mode.
Alex Martelli
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:37:39 -0400 (EDT), wilf...@webtv.net (W S)
> wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I find the material, as presented, in the book Programming Python
>>frustrating and extremely difficult to understand.
>>
>>Are the nutshell and cookbook O'Reilly Python books easier to read?
>
> I really dislike the "Programming Python" book.[1] After playing
...
> (The "case study" issue I describe above, which I consider a "bug,"
> the above review considers to be a feature: "Many of the example
> scripts and programs build on one another from chapter to chapter,
Yes, there seems to be an irretrievable split on this issue, for
both authors and readers of programming books: some thrive on
"significant" examples, i.e. programs that DO something useful,
complicated, etc, while others far prefer examples that focus on
the specific issue being examined, almost inevitably "toy"
examples to cut out issues that are "locally" irrelevant.
For example, among the C++ classics, Stroustrup's book tries hard
to give "significant" examples -- I've always far preferred Lippman's
book, with his "toy" examples, which, to me, illustrated C++'s
various aspects so much more clearly and sharply (Eckel's "Thinking
in C++" is much in the same vein, and I also appreciated it highly).
Since I've thus shown I belong in the "toy examples" brigade, you
can bet that's emphatically what I put in the Nutshell (and that
I didn't like "Programming Python" either, back when I was learning
Python, much as I appreciate Mark Lutz for other works, such as
the Pocket Reference and Learning Python) -- not that a Nutshell
has space for "large examples" anyway, of course (unless, like was
done for the Java one, you split off the examples into a separate
book -- quite a different issue;-).
The Cookbook is quite different, since the mix of examples was
essentially decided by the Python community -- what David Ascher
and I did was essentially a job of _selection_ (and adding a
few snippets to illustrate some things the community had basically
neglected -- as well of course as discussion/comments/etc).
So, in the Cookbook, you'll find plenty of examples that are just
snippets illustrating very specific points, as well as "toy-level",
simple things, AND a few major, multi-page "recipes" that do a
significant, complex job.
However, for both the Cookbook AND the Nutshell, I did do my best
to consider *NON*-sequential readers -- people who just want
to delve deep into ONE specific subject and get the gist of it --
as well as people who enjoy reading the book, or some chapters in
it, sequentially. How well I managed to, of course, it's not for
me to say -- you can find several reviews of both the Cookbook
and the Nutshell, both on the web and specifically in this NG
(google will help you find them -- "Advanced Group Search" for
stuff in this newsgroup, of course); and you can look at the
sample chapters for each work, from O'Reilly's site, or Amazon,
or no doubt other sites yet; and make up your own mind...!
Alex
Ken Parkes
> Also, don't forget, sometimes the best things in life are free:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
Have you tried printing this? When I try to print it on an HP Deskjet
840C (CUPS on Mandrake 9) I lose the last letter on every line and the
last two lines on every page completely. Have fiddled endlessly to no
avail....and it looks such a good intro.
Ken.
David M. Cook
wrote:
> Hello,
Well, if you have those, you'll probably get more out of the cookbook than
anything else; it's one of the most useful Python books I've seen.
Dave Cook
Davor Cengija
It seems that the PDF file is somehow broken.
Download the latex sources and compile them, the instructions are included.
Now you should have the correct PDF.
--
Davor Cengija, dcengija...@inet.hr
Cameron Laird
Scott Chapman <scott...@mischko.com> wrote:
.
.
.
>Anyone else have good recommends regarding OOP books, especially focusing on
>Python?
.
.
<URL: http://mindview.net/Books/TIPython >
<URL: http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython.html >
--
Cameron Laird <Cam...@Lairds.com>
Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal: http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html
Arion
> too advanced to be a good tutorial; 2) it's not properly organized to
> be a good reference; and 3) too many sections of it depend on having
> read all the prior sections, which is somewhat acceptable for a
> tutorial, but really falls short for a book where you're going to skip
> around -- the examples aren't very self-contained.
I have found Programming Python 2e to be an outstanding work, partly because
I didn't have prerequisites for the book not to live up to, and partly
because I was someone whou could benefit from an advanced tutorial guiding
me gently through a lot of Pythonic concepts. I feel it greatly enhanced my
modest ability with the language by starting at the beginning and working
through.
For someone who has plumbed the depths of a few basic tutorials and
appreciates a certain flavor of organized tutorial, it's a fine book. I
think it comes down largely to what one wants/expects.
-Rob Andrews
W S
>Are the nutshell and cookbook O'Reilly Python
>books easier to read?
Your comments were helpful and I thank you all. I'll read the on-line
tutorials, get the books and keep at it.
Wilfred
synthespian
Maybe your problem is lack of understanding of related stuff (like
http, web/clients, parsers), not the language per se. So you should read
up on those surrounding topics. Programming Python is not for beginners,
but it's not too difficult either.
Regs
Henry
Stephen Ferg
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1884777740/002-3535821-6932869?vi=glance