Python Magazine

[DRJ Reddy]

Planning to start a python online chronicle.What you want to see in it. :)

[Roy Smith]

In article <27969350-4dd8-4afa...@googlegroups.com>,

DRJ Reddy <rama...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Planning to start a python online chronicle.What you want to see in it. :)

Issue 1:

"Whitespace as syntax: mistake or magic?"

"Python 3 vs. IPv6: who will win the race for early adoption?"

"Did Python 3 break unicode? The true story"

"Tuplemania: 100 things you can do with immutable lists"

[Mark Janssen]

I always liked the daily Python-URL from Dr. Dobbs.

Summaries of salient discussions on python-dev, ideas, list.

interviews with devs on philosophies.

quote of the week

--m

On 5/24/13, DRJ Reddy <rama...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Planning to start a python online chronicle.What you want to see in it. :)

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


--
MarkJ
Tacoma, Washington

[DRJ Reddy]

> Issue 1:

> "Whitespace as syntax: mistake or magic?"

Thanks Roy :)

[DRJ Reddy]

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 9:08:28 AM UTC+5:30, zipher wrote:
> I always liked the daily Python-URL from Dr. Dobbs.

> quote of the week

Thanks zipher we have already planned to continue Python-URL and quote of the week.
We will plan for other things that you have mentioned.
Thanks again :)

[Carlos Nepomuceno]

In-depth articles about Python! Like security analisys of modules, packages, frameworks, everything Python related.

Performance benchmarks. How a Python technology/solution compares to other competitor technologies.

Python competitions/contests/challenges!

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 20:38:28 -0700
> Subject: Re: Python Magazine
> From: dreamin...@gmail.com
> To: rama...@gmail.com
> CC: pytho...@python.org

>
> I always liked the daily Python-URL from Dr. Dobbs.
>

> Summaries of salient discussions on python-dev, ideas, list.
>
> interviews with devs on philosophies.
>
> quote of the week
>
> --m
>
> On 5/24/13, DRJ Reddy <rama...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Planning to start a python online chronicle.What you want to see in it. :)

>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
> --
> MarkJ
> Tacoma, Washington

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[Chris Angelico]

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Roy Smith <r...@panix.com> wrote:
> "Python 3 vs. IPv6: who will win the race for early adoption?"

I think Py3 is winning that one so far. But really, both need to get
moving. Neither of my ISPs does IPv6 :(

Seconding the recommendation for QOTW, that's good fun.

ChrisA

[DRJ Reddy]

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 9:13:56 AM UTC+5:30, Carlos Nepomuceno wrote:
> In-depth articles about Python! Like security analisys of modules, packages, frameworks, everything Python related.
>
> Performance benchmarks. How a Python technology/solution compares to other competitor technologies.
>
> Python competitions/contests/challenges!

Thankyou for your suggestions. :)

[DRJ Reddy]

This is what i love with python community faster responses. :)

[Carlos Nepomuceno]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 21:10:02 -0700
> Subject: Re: Python Magazine
> From: rama...@gmail.com
> To: pytho...@python.org

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Also, comparison of Python flavors (CPython, PyPy, Cython, Stackles, etc.) -- How do they differ? What's the benefits and hindrances?

[Chris Angelico]

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Carlos Nepomuceno
<carlosne...@outlook.com> wrote:
> Also, comparison of Python flavors (CPython, PyPy, Cython, Stackles, etc.) -- How do they differ? What's the benefits and hindrances?

Good point. Could go even more general than that: Just highlight some
lesser-known Python and show it off.

ChrisA

[Michael Poeltl]

* DRJ Reddy <rama...@gmail.com> [2013-05-25 05:26]:

> Planning to start a python online chronicle.What you want to see in it. :)

- idiomatic python (common mistakes; do it 'pythonically')
- interviews
- challenge of the week (how would you solve that?)
- python for kids
- scientific python news
- new python-books

-


> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

--
Michael Poeltl <michael...@univie.ac.at>
Computational Materials Physics at University
Wien, Sensengasse 8/12, A-1090 Wien, AUSTRIA
http://cmp.univie.ac.at/
http://homepage.univie.ac.at/michael.poeltl/
using elinks-0.12, mutt-1.5.21, and vim-7.3,
with python-3.2.3, on slackware-13.37 :-)
fon: +43-1-4277-51409

[zoom]

But why would anyone want to use IPv6?

[Chris Angelico]

On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 4:38 PM, zoom <zo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> But why would anyone want to use IPv6?

I hope you're not serious :)

ChrisA

[Steven D'Aprano]

He's planning to drop off the Internet once the IP address run out.


--
Steven

[Daniel]

All of the above, plus:

- Best Pythonic tools for GUI

- notorious projects (in science, education, NGOs, etc) using python

Please keep us informed, and best wishes

Daniel

El 25/05/2013, a las 07:29, Michael Poeltl <michael...@univie.ac.at> escribió:

> * DRJ Reddy <rama...@gmail.com> [2013-05-25 05:26]:

>> Planning to start a python online chronicle.What you want to see in it. :)

> - idiomatic python (common mistakes; do it 'pythonically')
> - interviews
> - challenge of the week (how would you solve that?)
> - python for kids
> - scientific python news
> - new python-books
>
> -
>
>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> --
> Michael Poeltl <michael...@univie.ac.at>
> Computational Materials Physics at University
> Wien, Sensengasse 8/12, A-1090 Wien, AUSTRIA
> http://cmp.univie.ac.at/
> http://homepage.univie.ac.at/michael.poeltl/
> using elinks-0.12, mutt-1.5.21, and vim-7.3,
> with python-3.2.3, on slackware-13.37 :-)
> fon: +43-1-4277-51409

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

[Roy Smith]

In article <mailman.2108.1369455...@python.org>,

Chris Angelico <ros...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Also, comparison of Python flavors (CPython, PyPy, Cython, Stackles, etc.)

Stackles? That sounds like breakfast cereal.

"New all-natural stackles, with 12 essential vitamins, plus fiber!"

[Roy Smith]

In article <51a0caac$0$30002$c3e8da3$5496...@news.astraweb.com>,

We already have run out. People have gotten so used to being behind NAT
gateways they don't even understand how evil it is. From my phone, I
can call any other phone anywhere in the world. But I can't talk
directly to the file server in my neighbor's house across the street?

[Chris Angelico]

Heh!! But watch the citations please, I didn't say that - my email was
quoting Carlos.

ChrisA

[Carlos Nepomuceno]

----------------------------------------
> From: r...@panix.com
> Subject: Re: Python Magazine
> Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 11:24:03 -0400
> To: pytho...@python.org

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

lol pardon my typo! I'm really considering that cereal! lol

[John Ladasky]

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 8:30:19 AM UTC-7, Roy Smith wrote:
> From my phone, I
> can call any other phone anywhere in the world. But I can't talk
> directly to the file server in my neighbor's house across the street?

Hmmm... I've been an advocate of IPv6, but... now you've got me thinking of what Iran's new cadre of hackers might do with it! :^)

[Roy Smith]

In article <7cd17be8-d455-4db8...@googlegroups.com>,

You (like many people) are confusing universal addressability with
universal connectivity. The converse of that is people confusing NAT
with security.

Of course not every IPv6 endpoint will be able to talk to every other
IPv6 endpoint, even if the both have globally unique addresses. But,
the access controls will be implemented in firewalls with appropriately
coded security policies. Not as an accident of being behind a NAT box.

[Chris Angelico]

To be more specific: The control of who can talk to whom is in the
hands of the admins of the two endpoints and the nodes in between,
rather than being arbitrarily in the hands of the technology. So I
would be able to talk to the file server across the street, but only
IF its admin lets me.

ChrisA

[John Ladasky]

A perfectly fair point, Roy. It's just when you started suggesting connecting to your neighbor's file server -- well, that's not something that many people would ordinarily do. So, my mind leaped to the possibility of uninvited connections.

Related question: would denial-of-service attacks be more pernicious without a NAT?

[Roy Smith]

In article <8f19e20c-4f77-43dc...@googlegroups.com>,

Not really. If I know the external IP address of your NAT box, I can
throw as much traffic at it as your internet connection will deliver.
Assuming you have sufficient bandwidth, eventually I'll melt down your
router. This is equally true with NAT or without it.

[Mark Lawrence]

On 26/05/2013 02:58, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Roy Smith <r...@panix.com> wrote:

> To be more specific: The control of who can talk to whom is in the
> hands of the admins of the two endpoints and the nodes in between,
> rather than being arbitrarily in the hands of the technology. So I
> would be able to talk to the file server across the street, but only
> IF its admin lets me.
>
> ChrisA
>

By such means as leaving the top level admin password set to the factory
default? :)

--
If you're using GoogleCrap� please read this
http://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython.

Mark Lawrence

[Chris Angelico]

Not sure what you mean. If we assume that network topology doesn't
change, then what we have is a single uplink (say, an ADSL connection,
given that most home users don't have luxuries) going to a router
(let's be generous here and say that's a Linux box with two NICs, and
you have a smart admin in charge of it), behind which is a set of
switches and computers making up a LAN of peers. On IPv4, the LAN
would operate on one of the RFC 1918 address blocks - say, 192.168.0.x
- and all external communication would be through one single IP
address - 203.0.113.47 will do for the purposes of discussion.

As far as other hosts on the internet are concerned, that entire
network is one single host, with address 203.0.113.47. It's unaware of
the three computers 192.168.0.4, .0.87, and .0.92; they merge into
one. This means they share the 65536 ports, they share entries on
blacklists, etc, etc.

With IPv6, that ADSL connection would come with a /64 block - say,
2001:db8:142:857::/64. Within that block, each computer would be
assigned a single address - perhaps 2001:db8:142:857::4,
2001:db8:142:857::87, and 2001:db8:142:857::92, or perhaps they'd be
assigned them by their MAC addresses eg
2001:db8:142:857:200:5eff:fe00:531a, which can be done automatically.
Now all your computers (including the router) are individually
addressable; they can be identified separately, or treated as a group
(the /64 representing the whole group). Their ports, blacklist
entries, etc, are all unique. This means you can run three servers on
port 80, etc.

The question now is: What sort of DOS attack are you fearing? If it's
a simple matter of saturating the connection, it makes absolutely no
difference. As Roy said, that's just a question of overloading. If I
command more bandwidth than you do, I can saturate you. Easy. (Very
easy if I have a botnet, for instance.) Harder to judge are the
amplifying attacks; a half-open-connection attack, for instance,
attacks a TCP server's RAM allocation. It's possible that some attacks
will be easier or harder with NAT than without, but you'd have to
evaluate a specific attack technique.

ChrisA

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Sat, 25 May 2013 21:54:43 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

> Of course not every IPv6 endpoint will be able to talk to every other
> IPv6 endpoint, even if the both have globally unique addresses. But,
> the access controls will be implemented in firewalls with appropriately
> coded security policies.

Or, more likely, *not* implemented in firewalls with *inappropriately*
coded security policies.



--
Steven

[Carlos Nepomuceno]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 20:04:28 -0700
> Subject: Re: Python Magazine
> From: john_l...@sbcglobal.net
> To: pytho...@python.org

>
> A perfectly fair point, Roy. It's just when you started suggesting connecting to your neighbor's file server -- well, that's not something that many people would ordinarily do. So, my mind leaped to the possibility of uninvited connections.
>
> Related question: would denial-of-service attacks be more pernicious without a NAT?

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

I don't think so.

IP blocking still a very common mitigation approach to DDoS, but it may cause denial of service to legitimate clients who share the same blocked public IP address used by the malicious clients. So, NAPT will still benefit DDoS attackers, at least temporarily (until the IP is unblocked).

[Steven D'Aprano]

Or when (not if) you find a vulnerability in the particular firewall.
Make no mistake: the most secure entry point is the one that isn't there.



--
Steven

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Carlos Nepomuceno
<carlosne...@outlook.com> wrote:
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 20:04:28 -0700
>> Subject: Re: Python Magazine
>> From: john_l...@sbcglobal.net
>> To: pytho...@python.org
>>

>> A perfectly fair point, Roy. It's just when you started suggesting connecting to your neighbor's file server -- well, that's not something that many people would ordinarily do. So, my mind leaped to the possibility of uninvited connections.
>>
>> Related question: would denial-of-service attacks be more pernicious without a NAT?

>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> I don't think so.
>
> IP blocking still a very common mitigation approach to DDoS, but it may cause denial of service to legitimate clients who share the same blocked public IP address used by the malicious clients. So, NAPT will still benefit DDoS attackers, at least temporarily (until the IP is unblocked).

I expect that IP blocks will be upgraded to /64 block blocks, if that
starts being a problem. But it often won't, and specific IP address
blocks will still be the norm.

ChrisA

[Chris Angelico]

Packets have to get somewhere. If they come into this computer, it has
to deliberately forward them to that computer or they won't get there.
Same thing. All it takes is

# ip6tables -p FORWARD DROP

and you have a "secure unless I specifically permit it" router.
Obviously an attacker can target the router itself (which is exactly
the same as current situation), but can't attack anything beyond it
without an explicit forwarding rule (which is also exactly the same).

ChrisA

[Carlos Nepomuceno]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 14:31:57 +1000
> Subject: Re: Python Magazine
> From: ros...@gmail.com
> To: pytho...@python.org
[...]

> I expect that IP blocks will be upgraded to /64 block blocks, if that
> starts being a problem. But it often won't, and specific IP address
> blocks will still be the norm.
>
> ChrisA

Blocking a whole network (/65) is totally undesirable and may even become illegal.

Currently it may not only happen at the target of the DDoS attack, but be spread all over the internet where block lists are enforced.

I don't expect that to happen and if it happens I'm surely in favor of protection against this type of 'solution' because it will block not only malicious clients but potentially many other legitimate clients.

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Carlos Nepomuceno
<carlosne...@outlook.com> wrote:
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 14:31:57 +1000
>> Subject: Re: Python Magazine
>> From: ros...@gmail.com
>> To: pytho...@python.org
> [...]
>> I expect that IP blocks will be upgraded to /64 block blocks, if that
>> starts being a problem. But it often won't, and specific IP address
>> blocks will still be the norm.
>>
>> ChrisA
>
>
> Blocking a whole network (/65) is totally undesirable and may even become illegal.

Blocking a /64 is exactly the same as blocking a /32 with NAT behind
it. And how could it be illegal? I provide service to those I choose
to provide to.

> Currently it may not only happen at the target of the DDoS attack, but be spread all over the internet where block lists are enforced.
>
> I don't expect that to happen and if it happens I'm surely in favor of protection against this type of 'solution' because it will block not only malicious clients but potentially many other legitimate clients.

Banning a wide netblock is of course going to lock out legit clients.
But IP rotation means that can happen anyway. You block a single IPv4
address that right now represents an abusive user; that user
disconnects and reconnects, gets a new IP, and someone else gets the
other one. Can happen all too easily. That's why IP-banning is at best
a temporary solution anyway.

ChrisA

[DRJ Reddy]

Hello all,
Was busy with work. Finally finished the job of registering the domain name.
Will be live soon. The url is http://pythonmagazine.org. Hope we will be live soon.
Regards,
DRJ.

[Carlos Nepomuceno]

----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 04:11:06 -0700
> Subject: Re: Python Magazine
> From: rama...@gmail.com
> To: pytho...@python.org

> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Nice! Wish you luck!

Do you have sponsors? Advertisers? What's the plan?

[88888 Dihedral]

Steven D'Aprano於 2013年5月26日星期日UTC+8上午11時50分31秒寫道：

Well, both the reliabl tcpip socket and the unstable udp socket
are supported in Python.

Aso the html and xml part is supported for the dirct web page content analysis through port 80.

I am not sure whether Steven is interested in
the web applictions.

[DRJ Reddy]

On Saturday, June 1, 2013 1:45:06 PM UTC+5:30, Carlos Nepomuceno wrote:

> Nice! Wish you luck!
>
> Do you have sponsors? Advertisers? What's the plan?

Thanks Carlos,
Right now we haven't engaged with sponsors or advertisers. Thinking whether to have a community magazine or go with the same way as previous ones some sort of commercialization.

[Carlos Nepomuceno]

> Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 00:37:53 -0700

> Subject: Re: Python Magazine
> From: rama...@gmail.com

[...]

> > Do you have sponsors? Advertisers? What's the plan?
> Thanks Carlos,
> Right now we haven't engaged with sponsors or advertisers. Thinking whether to have a community magazine or go with the same way as previous ones some sort of commercialization.

Do you have other magazines? Which ones? How are you going to supply contents?

[DRJ Reddy]

> Do you have other magazines? Which ones? How are you going to supply contents?

We don't have other magazines. I was referring to old python magazines which terminated now. Portable documents(PDF , EPUB or MOBI) for now is being planned.
Regards,
DRJ.

[Chris Angelico]

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 2:17 AM, DRJ Reddy <rama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Do you have other magazines? Which ones? How are you going to supply contents?
>
> We don't have other magazines. I was referring to old python magazines which terminated now. Portable documents(PDF , EPUB or MOBI) for now is being planned.

The real problem is the ongoing supply of content. If you can publish
on a regular schedule (weekly?) with interesting content, you'll have
a highly successful magazine... but if you have to provide all that
content yourself, you'll burn out. Try to line up a couple of backup
writers or columnists to help out - and no, I'm not offering, I have
way too much happening already :) Though the number of words I've
typed into python-list today would probably be enough for a month's
worth of newsletters...

Let's have more of these threads that are actually Python-related!

ChrisA

[DRJ Reddy]

> The real problem is the ongoing supply of content. If you can publish
>
> on a regular schedule (weekly?) with interesting content, you'll have
>
> a highly successful magazine... but if you have to provide all that
>
> content yourself, you'll burn out. Try to line up a couple of backup
>
> writers or columnists to help out - and no, I'm not offering, I have
>
> way too much happening already :) Though the number of words I've
>
> typed into python-list today would probably be enough for a month's
>
> worth of newsletters...
>
>
>
> Let's have more of these threads that are actually Python-related!
>
>
>
> ChrisA

Dear ChrisA,
Currently we are a team of three. We are planning to have contect categorized into topics like
☺ Some application made of python(command line program or a GUI program) that we make using a python module(planning to cover as many modules as possible) ie; of included batteries of python.
☺ Python in Security ie; Some scripts that we can write in python like a dictionary attack tool
☺ One for covering Tkinter.
☺ One small Game using python.
☺ Python Facts,Python Quotes, Python PersonalitY (a python personnel bio or an interview), Python video(about a python video from Python Conferences)
☺ Python articles Guest as well as our own.
☺ Python Tutorials.
☺ Python Place( A place where python is being used for production).
☺ If we are not overloading magazine we would also cover about Python tools like say Ninja-IDE(an IDE for Python extensively written in Python).
After a few days we are planning to cover
☺ Python in cloud.(Open Stack)
☺ Network Programming.(probably Twisted framework)
☺ Database programming with SQLite.
☺ Python Puzzles(some programming Questions).
☺ Python Webframework probably Django.
We welcome further suggestions from the community.
Regards,
DRJ and Team.

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Carlos Nepomuceno
<carlosne...@outlook.com> wrote:
> I've been told that in California it is really illegal to block IP addresses without a court order. Any Californians available to confirm that?
>
> "The sender of information over the Internet is the "owner" of both the information and the IP address attached to the information. ... "
>
> Source: http://im-from-missouri.blogspot.com.br/2007/05/ip-address-blocking-is-illegal-in.html

Way late responding to this (Carlos, I think it's a whole pile of your
posts that are only just coming through), but this is patently false.
The sender of information is NOT the owner of the IP address. IANA
does not sell IP addresses, it allocates them. There is nothing
*owned*. This became significant last year when IPv4 depletion made
the netblock market wake up dramatically; while it *is* acceptable for
money to change hands as part of a netblock transfer arrangement,
those IP addresses are *not* a saleable item per se, and transfers
*must* be approved by IANA. (For instance, if you own a /28 out of a
/8 assigned to APNIC, you can't sell that to someone in Europe,
because that would make a mess of core routing tables. Allocations to
the five RIRs are always on the basis of /8 blocks.)

The Californian legislators can't change that any more than they can
legislate that one of their citizens owns Alpha Centauri.

ChrisA