a good programming text editor (not IDE)
John Salerno
but hopefully this question is a little different. I'm looking for
suggestions for a good cross-platform text editor (which the features
for coding, such as syntax highlighting, etc.) but not a full IDE with
all the fancy jazz (GUI developer, UML diagrams, etc.).
Ideally, it would be something I could even put on a flash drive and
move from computer to computer, but this isn't necessary. Just something
I can immediately use in either Windows or Linux (or Mac, if necessary).
Based on another thread, I tried out Scite, but no matter what I do it
doesn't seem to remember the window size and position, or any options I
choose (like showing line numbers). It seems to always reset itself each
time I open it.
And naturally there are Emacs and Vim, but I just don't know if I need
to invest *that* much time into learning one of them (probably Vim,
since I hear it's lighter and faster).
I've tried a few others, like TextPad and Crimson, and right now I use
UltraEdit, which I love actually, except for minor issues here and
there. But it'd be nice to make the move, as much as possible, to free,
open-source, cross-platform software.
Thanks for any suggestions, and again I'm sorry if this feels like the
same question as usual (it's just that in my case, I'm not looking for
something like SPE, Komodo, Eric3, etc. right now).
Josiah Manson
language I have heard of plus some, and seems to work pretty well. It
has some issues with fonts, and on some computers is unstable (it
crashes in linux, and may have issues with multiprocessor machines).
I would also like to know if someone has made a good text editor that
works in a variety of languages and overcomes some of SciTE's
limitations.
BartlebyScrivener
It uses plugins. So, e.g., if you decide you do want an IDE, you add
PyDev
Scott David Daniels
> And naturally there are Emacs and Vim, but I just don't know if I need
> to invest *that* much time into learning one of them (probably Vim,
> since I hear it's lighter and faster).
To paraphrase someone else (their identity lost in my mental fog) about
learning VI:
"The two weeks you'll spend hating vi (or vim) as you learn it will
be repaid in another month, ad the rest is pure profit."
--
--Scott David Daniels
scott....@acm.org
Tim Chase
> I'm looking for suggestions for a good cross-platform text
> editor
Check.
> (which the features for coding, such as syntax
> highlighting, etc.)
Check.
> but not a full IDE with all the fancy jazz
> (GUI developer, UML diagrams, etc.).
Check.
> Ideally, it would be something I could even put on a flash
> drive and move from computer to computer, but this isn't
> necessary.
Check
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A//blog.gmane.org/gmane.editors.vim/day%3D20050923
> I do it doesn't seem to remember the window size and position,
in your gvimrc, use
set lines=50 columns=80
winpos 300 0
> or any options I choose (like showing line numbers).
to enable line numbering
:set number
to disable line numbering
:set nonumber
to gottle line numbering
:set number!
> It seems to always reset itself each time I open it.
Options can be saved in your vimrc/gvimrc file to preserve
settings. Additionally, the viminfo file can be used to preserve
registers, etc across editing sessions. On top of that, you can
use the ":mksession" command to take a snapshot of a session with
all its window positionings, manual folds, etc.
> And naturally there are Emacs and Vim,
> but I just don't know if I need to invest
> *that* much time into learning one of them
> (probably Vim, since I hear it's lighter and faster).
Excellent idea... :) I invested a bit of time up front to learn
vim, but it was well worth every moment I spent on it. I'll be
the first to admit that it has a learning curve like a brick
wall. But once you get the basics and force yourself to use it
until you get comfortable with it, it pays massive dividends.
> to free,
Check.
> open-source
Check.
> cross-platform
Check.
In addition, it has folding, both console versions and GUI
versions, and a host of plugins for making various files easier
to edit. Oh, and a rather helpful mailing list!
Just some answers to your questions...
-tkc
John Salerno
> Vim is definitely the best. If you're a GUI man, you can use GVim.
Ok, you guys are slowly converting me, but I do have one question: which
"version" of VIM should I use, or does it matter? I mean, there seem to
be at least two versions, a text version and the GUI version you
mention. Are the options shared between the two, or is it that you are
more or less "set" in one once you choose it, and if you move to the
other you have to redefine your preferences, etc.?
Ant
> UltraEdit, which I love actually, except for minor issues here and
> there. But it'd be nice to make the move, as much as possible, to free,
> open-source, cross-platform software.
Vim is great if you have a good memory... Otherwise you end up trawling
through the help to find out how to do stuff that would in another IDE
be just a few menu clicks away.
jEdit is for me still the best text editor available. Very extensible
with macros (which can be written in Jython with the appropriate plugin
installed). Full mapping of key-bindings to built in commands, plugin
commands and macros a-la Vim, emacs etc. Also comes with a range of
plugins if you do want that little bit more power... Java based so
cross platform.
John Salerno
> jEdit is for me still the best text editor available. Very extensible
> with macros (which can be written in Jython with the appropriate plugin
> installed).
I like the idea of being extensible, but of course I can only write in
Python. Are there any editors that support that?
Ant
Jython is python (running on the Java platform) - just not a very
recent version (2.1 currently IIRC).
Fredrik Lundh
Jython is a Python implementation for Java.
</F>
John Salerno
Oh, I know, but doesn't it require knowledge of Java? Or am I being even
more newbie-ish than I thought I was? :)
Jarek Zgoda
The "version" doesn't matter, but anyway you should get the newest one
available. 7.0 has some nice features for text editing in graphic
environments (like Windows), but in terminal it's the same beast. You'll
love it in short time. ;)
--
Jarek Zgoda
http://jpa.berlios.de/
ols...@verizon.net
I can think of one editor that supports that ;-)
http://www.vim.org/htmldoc/if_pyth.html#Python
Seriously though, yes vim is wierd. Wierd enough that you might think
maybe people just use it because they're trying to proove they're l337
or hardcore, instead of using it for real practical reasons. But it
really is an amazing text editor once you accept the wierdness.
If you use it for a little bit, one day you'll be editing a document in
Word, or notepad, or SciTE, or Eclipse; you'll instinctively type
'[ESC]:wq', and be suprised that the app is still open. That's when
you realize there's no turning back.
-Grant
[ESC]:wq <dammit, did it again! />
Paddy
> I know there's a request for a good IDE at least once a week on the ng,
> but hopefully this question is a little different. I'm looking for
> suggestions for a good cross-platform text editor (which the features
> for coding, such as syntax highlighting, etc.) but not a full IDE with
> all the fancy jazz (GUI developer, UML diagrams, etc.).
>
> Ideally, it would be something I could even put on a flash drive and
> move from computer to computer, but this isn't necessary. Just something
> I can immediately use in either Windows or Linux (or Mac, if necessary).
>
Hi John,
I am yet another user of (g)vim. The good thing about gvim is that for
normal editing, a lot can be done from the drop-down menus. You need to
get hold of a list of the vim commands to learn and what to learn first
(anyone?), as there is a huge amount of functionality in vim, and you
can do a lot with a little.
Personally, I have never done more than poke at the edges of the
internal scripting of vim as I prefer:
:%!gawk 'awk one liner'
Which sends text to the external shell for processing by another
command (in this case gawk)
Gvim on windows is a life-saver for me as I have files with different
line terminators from my unix work, and it opens those.
The only thing I miss in gvim is a mode that would try to display HTML
to say the degree that the lynx/links browsers do.
(http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links/,
http://lynx.browser.org/).
Roel Schroeven
Some settings are GUI-specific, such as font and window size, but the
rest is the same. You can easily copy your preferences file between
different systems and use it with both vim and gvim (text mode vim will
just ignore the GUI settings).
--
If I have been able to see further, it was only because I stood
on the shoulders of giants. -- Isaac Newton
Roel Schroeven
James Stroud
>>I've tried a few others, like TextPad and Crimson, and right now I use
>>UltraEdit, which I love actually, except for minor issues here and
>>there. But it'd be nice to make the move, as much as possible, to free,
>>open-source, cross-platform software.
>
>
> Vim is great if you have a good memory... Otherwise you end up trawling
> through the help to find out how to do stuff that would in another IDE
> be just a few menu clicks away.
>
Mental memory (the painful kind of memory) rapidly turns into muscle
memory (the fun kind of memory) and all of those mind boggling
keystrokes begin to feel like an artistic expression reminiscent of
playing the piano.
James
--
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095
RunLevelZero
Global Options File " and then there are plenty of settings. Use the
SciTE.html file and it will explain them all and there are many but the
defaults usually work well to start out. I have had no issues with
Linux. I use Debian. Here is a snippet of the first few lines of the
global options file.
"# Globals
command.name.2.*.py=PyChecker
command.2.*.py=C:\Python23\Scripts\pychecker.bat --stdlib --blacklist
--varlist "$(FilePath)"
tab.timmy.whinge.level=1
# Window sizes and visibility
if PLAT_WIN
position.left=30
position.top=25
if PLAT_GTK
position.left=15
position.top=30
position.width=1200
position.height=950"
As you can see if you are running windows "if PLAT_WIN" those are the
settings for your window etc...
Also grab this file.
http://scintilla.sourceforge.net/gen_python_api.zip
You can run it and it will build an API that you put in the root of
SciTE and it will auto complete and it will give you help tips if you
want them.
I can't say that this is better than VIM but SciTE works great if you
are mostly a python programmer.
Larry Bates
Nope, no Java knowledge necessary. Jython just compiles Python code
to java bytecode instead of python bytecode. Once it is in java bytecode
the JVM doesn't know where it came from.
-Larry Bates
John Salerno
> Nope, no Java knowledge necessary. Jython just compiles Python code
> to java bytecode instead of python bytecode. Once it is in java bytecode
> the JVM doesn't know where it came from.
Well that's good to know. I guess there's not much of a point in writing
pure Python code with Jython, but at least now I know it works that way!
BartlebyScrivener
nobody arguing with the vi folks. Will the Windows vim and gvim users
vouch for its stability on Windows?
rd
Jarek Zgoda
> Emacs must be dying if this thread could get all the way to 20 with
> nobody arguing with the vi folks. Will the Windows vim and gvim users
> vouch for its stability on Windows?
Sure. Do you need any legal assistance?
Benji York
> Emacs must be dying if this thread could get all the way to 20 with
> nobody arguing with the vi folks.
heh :)
> Will the Windows vim and gvim users vouch for its stability on
> Windows?
It's very stable on Windows.
--
Benji York
Istvan Albert
> To paraphrase someone else (their identity lost in my mental fog) about
> learning VI:
> "The two weeks you'll spend hating vi (or vim) as you learn it will
> be repaid in another month, ad the rest is pure profit."
Time and again I hear this (no shortage of Vim fans, same with Emacs),
and I know I should know better but always believe them yet again.
Invariably I download Vim play with it for an hour, get increasingly
frustrated and give up. Most likely I'm greatly spoiled by using
EditPlus (Windows only), it just makes it so easy to do the basic
programming tasks that I need, everywhere else I turn I see far more
functionality but at the price of not being able to do basic tasks as
efficiently as I need them.
Say I want to be able to execute the python program I'm currently
editing. Nothing simpler in EditPlus, Tools->Configure Tools->Add Tool
then specify which program you want to run, what parameters it takes
and whether to capture the output or not ... total time it took me
first time I wanted to do this ... about 3 minutes ... from now on
pressing Ctrl-1 while editing the source will execute the python on the
current source *and* it displays the output in a lower pane as it runs
*and* it allows me to simultanously edit the file *while* the program
is running. Outstanding.
Yet after searching and reading stuff for more than an hour I was
unable to accomplish the same thing in Vim though I'm already familiar
enough with basic editing and setup (through my previous trials and
tribulations) ... I have a few solutions that end up doing something
similar but are quite a few keypresses longer both to invoke or to get
back to the source that I'm writing, or I lose editing control while
the program is running ... etc...
So if the OP is on windows just head over and get EditPlus (UltraEdit
and TextPad seem to be similar), and just accept the fact that you are
already using an editor that as good as an editor can get ... I know
I'd pay that registration once again for an editor that works the same
way on Linux...
i.
Fredrik Lundh
> Emacs must be dying if this thread could get all the way to 20 with
> nobody arguing with the vi folks.
hints: 1) editor wars are so last century. 2) emacs has already won.
</F>
Jarek Zgoda
>> Emacs must be dying if this thread could get all the way to 20 with
>> nobody arguing with the vi folks.
> 1) editor wars are so last century.
> 2) emacs has already won.
You died in last century with your editor, we have tabs.
John Salerno
> hints: 1) editor wars are so last century. 2) emacs has already won.
Uh oh, here we go.............. ;)
Fredrik Lundh
> You died in last century with your editor, we have tabs.
real python programmers don't use tabs.
</F>
Scott David Daniels
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
>
>> To paraphrase someone else (their identity lost in my mental fog) about
>> learning VI:
>> "The two weeks you'll spend hating vi (or vim) as you learn it will
>> be repaid in another month, ad the rest is pure profit."
>
> Time and again I hear this (no shortage of Vim fans, same with Emacs),
> and I know I should know better but always believe them yet again.
> Invariably I download Vim play with it for an hour, get increasingly
> frustrated and give up.
Surprise, surprise. One hour is not two weeks.
--Scott David Daniels
scott....@acm.org
Slawomir Nowaczyk
BartlebyScrivener <rpdo...@gmail.com> wrote:
#> Emacs must be dying if this thread could get all the way to 20 with
#> nobody arguing with the vi folks.
We have learned the important lesson: those who are looking for true
enlightenment will find Emacs anyway. We no longer feel the need to
argue with people who praise various versions of notepad ;-) ;-) ;-)
--
Best wishes,
Slawomir Nowaczyk
( Slawomir...@cs.lth.se )
Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good.
Jarek Zgoda
>> You died in last century with your editor, we have tabs.
>
> real python programmers don't use tabs.
So I'll tab you the beer I owe you when we meet at EuroPython.
Roel Schroeven
> If you use it for a little bit, one day you'll be editing a document in
> Word, or notepad, or SciTE, or Eclipse; you'll instinctively type
> '[ESC]:wq', and be suprised that the app is still open. That's when
> you realize there's no turning back.
Exactly... it happens very regularly that my C++ compiler complains
about :w, jjj or kkkk in my code. Being able to keep your hands on the
base row instead of having to switch back and forth to the arrow keys is
a tremendous benefit, which I didn't appreciate that much until I
learned by experience that I unconsciously try, unsuccessfully of
course, to do it in other editors.
BTW, you can type :x instead of :wq. 33% shorter!
Dave Hansen
<john...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>I know there's a request for a good IDE at least once a week on the ng,
>but hopefully this question is a little different. I'm looking for
>suggestions for a good cross-platform text editor (which the features
>for coding, such as syntax highlighting, etc.) but not a full IDE with
>all the fancy jazz (GUI developer, UML diagrams, etc.).
>
>Ideally, it would be something I could even put on a flash drive and
>move from computer to computer, but this isn't necessary. Just something
>I can immediately use in either Windows or Linux (or Mac, if necessary).
Very small, very fast, very powerful, and very portable (though I'm
not sure about Mac...): Take a look at Jed from www.jedsoft.org.
You might not find it pretty, however...
Regards,
-=Dave
--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.
Dave Cook
> I know there's a request for a good IDE at least once a week on the ng,
> but hopefully this question is a little different. I'm looking for
> suggestions for a good cross-platform text editor (which the features
> for coding, such as syntax highlighting, etc.) but not a full IDE with
> all the fancy jazz (GUI developer, UML diagrams, etc.).
For something very light, jed has a pretty good python mode that is based on
the emacs python-mode.
I still swear by XEmacs with python-mode, though I do wish for intelligent
code completion sometimes (pycomplete just gives me errors). The XEmacs
features that keep me from switching to Gnu Emacs are buffer tabs and
hyperlinked error messages.
Most IDEs are rather weak as text editors compared to emacsen.
On the Mac, you might try Aquamacs; though I don't like the default
behavior, a new user would probably have less of a problem with it.
Dave Cook
BartlebyScrivener
That's true, but even emacs and xemacs don't offer simple automatic
word wrap (i.e. wrap a line without splitting words or putting an eol
or hard carriage return at the end of every line). I don't know if vim
allows this. It's something writers just take for granted in non-Unix
text editors.
rd
Tim Daneliuk
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
>
>> To paraphrase someone else (their identity lost in my mental fog) about
>> learning VI:
>> "The two weeks you'll spend hating vi (or vim) as you learn it will
>> be repaid in another month, ad the rest is pure profit."
>
> Time and again I hear this (no shortage of Vim fans, same with Emacs),
> and I know I should know better but always believe them yet again.
> Invariably I download Vim play with it for an hour, get increasingly
> frustrated and give up. Most likely I'm greatly spoiled by using
This is not a skill or competence issue - it is a mindset issue.
Some people are naturally more comfortable with point-n-shoot
GUI interfaces. Some of us old retrograde dinosaurs imagine GUIs
to be a place to run multiple xterms so we can use the keyboard
even more. That said, to the extent you learn to master the keyboard
with any tool, you will eventually become far more efficient doing
almost everything you do. I find GUI editors/browsers/et al easy
to learn or good for casual use, but an interference when I want
to do a lot fast. I got so frustrated with it all, I wrote my
own pure Python file browser that is *all* about the keyboard and
never having to say you're a mouse user (though you can):
<Shameless Self-Promotion>
http://www.tundraware.com/Software/twander/
</Shameless Self-Promotion>
GUIs are great for two classes of use: 1) For non-specialist or casual
users who need to be productive with minimal training or support, and
2) Classes of problems that are inherently graphical - photo editing
is such an example. But, I have yet to see a significant advantage
to programming under a GUI (beyond the aforementioned ability to run
multiple instances of emacs, xterm ...). Yes, a GUI editor is easy to
*learn* and use casually, but text intensive work is best done with
tools optimized for doing so.
BTW, when God created the heavens and earth, the OS was BSD Unix, the
config files were edited with emacs, and the doc was written in LaTeX
using the dvi2stonetablets backend...
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk tun...@tundraware.com
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
Neil Hodgson
> Based on another thread, I tried out Scite, but no matter what I do it
> doesn't seem to remember the window size and position, or any options I
> choose (like showing line numbers). It seems to always reset itself each
> time I open it.
SciTE is configured by modifying options files rather than by
automatically remembering your choices. If you don't like this approach
then you probably won't like SciTE.
Neil
Slawomir Nowaczyk
BartlebyScrivener <rpdo...@gmail.com> wrote:
#> >> Most IDEs are rather weak as text editors compared to emacsen.
#>
#> That's true, but even emacs and xemacs don't offer simple automatic
#> word wrap (i.e. wrap a line without splitting words or putting an eol
#> or hard carriage return at the end of every line).
Of course it does... there is longlines.el and longlines-mode in my
copy of GNU Emacs:
,--------------------------------------------------
| Toggle Long Lines mode.
| In Long Lines mode, long lines are wrapped if they extend beyond
| `fill-column'. The soft newlines used for line wrapping will not
| show up when the text is yanked or saved to disk.
`-------------------------------------------------
I do not use it, personally, but it does exist.
--
Best wishes,
Slawomir Nowaczyk
( Slawomir...@cs.lth.se )
COMMAND: A suggestion made to a computer.
david....@gmail.com
Slawomir Nowaczyk wrote:
> #> That's true, but even emacs and xemacs don't offer simple automatic
> #> word wrap (i.e. wrap a line without splitting words or putting an eol
> #> or hard carriage return at the end of every line).
>
> Of course it does... there is longlines.el and longlines-mode in my
> copy of GNU Emacs:
>
> ,--------------------------------------------------
> | Toggle Long Lines mode.
> | In Long Lines mode, long lines are wrapped if they extend beyond
> | `fill-column'. The soft newlines used for line wrapping will not
> | show up when the text is yanked or saved to disk.
> `-------------------------------------------------
Not quite. Longlines Mode actually inserts real carriage returns into
the buffer, which you will notice in a lot of situations. For example,
text does not get rewrapped when you resize the frame to a different
width. Also, searching for two words (with a space in between them)
won't work when the target text happens to wrap them just there
(happens to me all the time when editing LaTeX). Thirdly, you'll find
that when you load a file, its lines won't automatically wrap at the
frame (actually, the window) width position.
All of these things don't bother long-time Emacs people, because most
of them tend to see a GUI as a way to display many terminals (something
like that has been said by someone else before in this thread), and
most of them rely on traditional Unix tools such as grep which work
line-by-line.
I have advocated seeing lines (with a CR and/or LF) as paragraphs, and
making the display of lines a matter of the particular display, not the
original data. That is much more natural for wrapped text, i.e. real
text rather than computer-parseable files.
A patch to Emacs 22 has been produced after that discussion, but sadly,
it isn't mature enough to make it into the final Emacs 22 release. But
I am confident we're going to see this in GNU Emacs 23, or at least in
Aquamacs Emacs in a little while.
Dave Cook
> Very small, very fast, very powerful, and very portable (though I'm
> not sure about Mac...): Take a look at Jed from www.jedsoft.org.
>
> You might not find it pretty, however...
But if your distro includes xjed (ubuntu/debian, but not newer fedoras) try
xjed -fn mono -fs 16
Dave Cook
BartlebyScrivener
>I have advocated seeing lines (with a CR and/or LF) as paragraphs, and
> making the display of lines a matter of the particular display, not the
> original data. That is much more natural for wrapped text, i.e. real
> text rather than computer-parseable files.
I agree.
Meanwhile I wrote a friend who is a vim aficionado, and he advises it
IS possible to achieve soft word wrap in vim.
When editing a text file, if you want word wrapping, but ONLY want line
breaks inserted when you explicitly press the enter key:
:set formatoptions=1
:set lbr
lbr tells vim to word wrap visually, but formatoptions=1 tells vim to
not insert hard newlines when you edit the middle of a 'paragraph.'
rd
Michael Williams
www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/) hands down.
josiah....@gmail.com
John Salerno wrote:
> I know there's a request for a good IDE at least once a week on the ng,
> but hopefully this question is a little different. I'm looking for
> suggestions for a good cross-platform text editor (which the features
> for coding, such as syntax highlighting, etc.) but not a full IDE with
> all the fancy jazz (GUI developer, UML diagrams, etc.).
>
> move from computer to computer, but this isn't necessary. Just something
> I can immediately use in either Windows or Linux (or Mac, if necessary).
> Thanks for any suggestions, and again I'm sorry if this feels like the
> same question as usual (it's just that in my case, I'm not looking for
> something like SPE, Komodo, Eric3, etc. right now).
I was taking a peek at c.l.py to check for replies in another thread
and couldn't help notice your asking about editors. Please pardon the
personal pimping, but have you looked at PyPE (pype.sf.net)? It
doesn't do everything, isn't geared towards every language, but as far
as I know, it is fairly cross-platform (there seems to be an
outstanding bug on ubuntu 6.06, but I need to get an installation to
check it out), and can offer a fairly no-frills interface for writing
software. The next release will include support for working from a
removable device (I plan on releasing before the end of the month), but
may not have an ubuntu fix (I may not have time to get one running).
- Josiah
Grant Edwards
> You died in last century with your editor, we have tabs.
My condolences. I hear there's a cure for that, though.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! These PRESERVES
at should be FORCE-FED to
visi.com PENTAGON OFFICIALS!!
Grant Edwards
> Very small, very fast, very powerful, and very portable (though I'm
> not sure about Mac...): Take a look at Jed from www.jedsoft.org.
It's been my editor of choice for many years. Running Emacs on
a machine with 8MB of RAM and 80MB of disk got a bit old.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Yow! I want my nose
at in lights!
visi.com
Michele Simionato
Yep, there is no much point about arguing for Emacs since everything is
already
explained here: http://www.dina.kvl.dk/~abraham/religion
Michele Simionato
Ant
John Salerno wrote:
> Larry Bates wrote:
>
> > Nope, no Java knowledge necessary. Jython just compiles Python code
> > to java bytecode instead of python bytecode. Once it is in java bytecode
> > the JVM doesn't know where it came from.
>
> Well that's good to know. I guess there's not much of a point in writing
> pure Python code with Jython, but at least now I know it works that way!
That's right - but it's very useful for scripting Java (for example in
jEdit) as you have access not only to the Python library, but to the
Java API (which you just use as if they were Python modules).
Ant
> > Vim is great if you have a good memory... Otherwise you end up trawling
> > through the help to find out how to do stuff that would in another IDE
> > be just a few menu clicks away.
>
> Mental memory (the painful kind of memory) rapidly turns into muscle
> memory (the fun kind of memory) and all of those mind boggling
> keystrokes begin to feel like an artistic expression reminiscent of
> playing the piano.
That's probably true. I still have a long way to go to get the most out
of vim though, because it takes a certain amount of mental memory to be
able to use the keystrokes often enough to turn them into muscle
memory...
I tend to use gvim on my PC if I'm also working on my server via ssh -
that way it doesn't matter if I type a few ESC :w's or :dd's. Otherwise
I tend to use jEdit.
Sergei Organov
> I know there's a request for a good IDE at least once a week on the ng,
> but hopefully this question is a little different. I'm looking for
> suggestions for a good cross-platform text editor (which the features
> for coding, such as syntax highlighting, etc.) but not a full IDE with
> all the fancy jazz (GUI developer, UML diagrams, etc.).
>
> Ideally, it would be something I could even put on a flash drive and
> move from computer to computer, but this isn't necessary. Just something
> I can immediately use in either Windows or Linux (or Mac, if
> necessary).
These days one can put entire OS to a flash drive, not only an editor.
[...]
> And naturally there are Emacs and Vim, but I just don't know if I need
> to invest *that* much time into learning one of them (probably Vim,
> since I hear it's lighter and faster).
>From this thread you can easily see that people that never look for
another editor are either Emacs or Vim users. I think you have two
options here: either spend some time to master one of them, or spend the
rest of your life looking for a good editor ;)
[I compose this reply in XEmacs, yes]
--
Sergei.
mystilleef
powerful.
Features:
Automatic completion
Automatic bracket completion and smart insertion
Snippets (ala TextMate)
Bookmarks
Syntax highlight for more than 30 languages
Launches faster than any IDE out their
Has no learning curve.
Features your typical text processing operations you'll find in
VIM/Emacs.
Remembers window position and size.
Sexy interface that actually adheres to human interface guidlines
And many more...
The next version will even feature remote editing.
website: ( http://scribes.sourceforge.net/ )
Flash Demo: ( http://scribes.sourceforge.net/snippets.htm )
GIF Demo: ( http://www.minds.may.ie/~dez/images/blog/scribes.html )
John Salerno wrote:
> I know there's a request for a good IDE at least once a week on the ng,
> but hopefully this question is a little different. I'm looking for
> suggestions for a good cross-platform text editor (which the features
> for coding, such as syntax highlighting, etc.) but not a full IDE with
> all the fancy jazz (GUI developer, UML diagrams, etc.).
>
> Ideally, it would be something I could even put on a flash drive and
> move from computer to computer, but this isn't necessary. Just something
> I can immediately use in either Windows or Linux (or Mac, if necessary).
>
> Based on another thread, I tried out Scite, but no matter what I do it
> doesn't seem to remember the window size and position, or any options I
> choose (like showing line numbers). It seems to always reset itself each
> time I open it.
>
> And naturally there are Emacs and Vim, but I just don't know if I need
> to invest *that* much time into learning one of them (probably Vim,
> since I hear it's lighter and faster).
>
> I've tried a few others, like TextPad and Crimson, and right now I use
> UltraEdit, which I love actually, except for minor issues here and
> there. But it'd be nice to make the move, as much as possible, to free,
> open-source, cross-platform software.
bruno at modulix
(snip)
> Based on another thread, I tried out Scite, but no matter what I do it
> doesn't seem to remember the window size and position, or any options I
> choose (like showing line numbers).
This is in the configuration files. Don't remember which and where, but
I clearly remember having done this.
>
> And naturally there are Emacs and Vim, but I just don't know if I need
> to invest *that* much time into learning one of them
If you have a lot of file editing to do in a lot of various formats,
then investing time on learning how to effectively use a powerful and
extensible test editor is the WiseThingTodo(tm).
> (probably Vim,
> since I hear it's lighter and faster).
It's a bit faster at startup, yes. Else, I'm not sure it makes a real
difference wrt/ performances and power. It's more a matter of personal
preference than anything else IMHO.
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c "print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in 'on...@xiludom.gro'.split('@')])"
bruno at modulix
> I see Eclipse mentioned here a lot.
If you go for a Mammoth-weight GUI-only Java IDE and have a really
powerful computer, why not ?
bruno at modulix
> Ant wrote:
>
>> jEdit is for me still the best text editor available. Very extensible
>> with macros (which can be written in Jython with the appropriate plugin
>> installed).
>
>
> I like the idea of being extensible, but of course I can only write in
> Python.
Jython is Python on Java.
> Are there any editors that support that?
Emacs.
<plug>
Which BTW is just great for python programming - not only do you have
an embedded interactive python shell - the default one or IPython - but
much more, you can with a simple keystroke eval either the whole buffer
or a selected block in this embedded shell. Could'nt live without it no
more !-)
(and you have ecb if you want a file/class browser)
</plug>
But learning other languages might be a good idea too (even if once
spoiled by Python, if can be quite frustrating).
bruno at modulix
> Emacs must be dying if this thread could get all the way to 20 with
> nobody arguing with the vi folks.
No need to argue. I started with vim, and finally switched to emacs less
than one year later.
bruno at modulix
>>>Most IDEs are rather weak as text editors compared to emacsen.
>
>
> That's true, but even emacs and xemacs don't offer simple automatic
> word wrap (i.e. wrap a line without splitting words or putting an eol
> or hard carriage return at the end of every line). I don't know if vim
> allows this.
line-wrapping in an IDE ???
> It's something writers just take for granted in non-Unix
> text editors.
Ah, ok. It's about vim/emacs as a general text editor. Emacs provides
word-wrapping, but true, it split words. I maybe wrong, but I don't
think it would be that hard to make it more word-friendly.
Now I wonder: what the use for line-wrapping at first ? Both emacs and
vim are text *editors*, not text *formatters*. Might be a unix-vs-others
cultural difference, but the general use on unix is to use some markup
(tex/LaTex, html, ReST or any 'structured-text' variant etc) and the
appropriate formater/renderer for presentation stuff.
Tim Chase
> emacs less than one year later.
Both are very-much-so good editors. I made the opposite switch
from emacs to vim in less than a year. Both are good^Wgreat
editors, so one's decision to use one over the other is more a
matter of working style. I don't grok LISP, and just never felt
at home in emacs, despite all the power I could see that was
there. I grok vim (and its similar power/extensibility), so I
migrated to it. I have to laugh at the whole holy-war thing, as
it's somewhat like arguing about a favorite color. "But blue is
so better than green! The sky is blue!" "Nuh, uh! Green is far
better than blue! Grass is green!" (okay, here in Texas, that
doesn't always hold as true...maybe personality #2 should be
arguing for brown instead).
My best friend is an emacs user, and I'm a vimmer...it doesn't
come between us. :)
-tkc
Walter Dörwald
> John Salerno wrote:
> [snip]
>> Thanks for any suggestions, and again I'm sorry if this feels like the
>> same question as usual (it's just that in my case, I'm not looking for
>> something like SPE, Komodo, Eric3, etc. right now).
>
> I was taking a peek at c.l.py to check for replies in another thread
> and couldn't help notice your asking about editors. Please pardon the
> personal pimping, but have you looked at PyPE (pype.sf.net)?
I tried it out and the first problem I noticed is that on Windows
opening a file from a Samba drive doesn't seem to work, as PyPE converts
the filename to lowercase.
Servus,
Walter
Istvan Albert
> Surprise, surprise. One hour is not two weeks.
I wrote:
> pressing Ctrl-1 while editing the source will execute the python on the
> current source *and* it displays the output in a lower pane as it runs
> *and* it allows me to simultanously edit the file *while* the program
> is running.
yet I'll bet that you could not make Vim do this above ...
josiah....@gmail.com
> I tried it out and the first problem I noticed is that on Windows
> opening a file from a Samba drive doesn't seem to work, as PyPE converts
> the filename to lowercase.
...Samba is tricky, and I hadn't thought of it before. Normal Windows
is case-insensitive but case-preserving, and PyPE uses Python's
os.path.normcase(os.path.normpath(os.path.realpath(...))) to do
path/file normalization mapping for open files (keeping the
non-case-normalized filename), so that you can't really make the
mistake of opening the same file twice. This normally works on
platforms with consistant case handling, but if you are using Samba
running on any non-OSX *nix (whose filename case handling is not like
other *nixes) from Windows, there gets to be a bit of a problem as your
*nix case handling is different from Windows.
I have an idea of what needs to be done, and the fix for it will be in
PyPE 2.4.1, which I plan on releasing by June 30th.
- Josiah
James Stroud
Yes, heartwarming, but if you are thinking marriage...
--
James Stroud
UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics
Box 951570
Los Angeles, CA 90095
63q2...@sneakemail.com
Istvan Albert wrote:
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
>
> > To paraphrase someone else (their identity lost in my mental fog) about
> > learning VI:
> > "The two weeks you'll spend hating vi (or vim) as you learn it will
> > be repaid in another month, ad the rest is pure profit."
>
> Time and again I hear this (no shortage of Vim fans, same with Emacs),
> and I know I should know better but always believe them yet again.
> Invariably I download Vim play with it for an hour, get increasingly
> frustrated and give up. Most likely I'm greatly spoiled by using
> programming tasks that I need, everywhere else I turn I see far more
> functionality but at the price of not being able to do basic tasks as
> efficiently as I need them.
>
> Say I want to be able to execute the python program I'm currently
> editing. Nothing simpler in EditPlus, Tools->Configure Tools->Add Tool
> then specify which program you want to run, what parameters it takes
> and whether to capture the output or not ... total time it took me
> first time I wanted to do this ... about 3 minutes ... from now on
> pressing Ctrl-1 while editing the source will execute the python on the
> current source *and* it displays the output in a lower pane as it runs
> *and* it allows me to simultanously edit the file *while* the program
>
> Yet after searching and reading stuff for more than an hour I was
> unable to accomplish the same thing in Vim though I'm already familiar
> enough with basic editing and setup (through my previous trials and
> tribulations) ... I have a few solutions that end up doing something
> similar but are quite a few keypresses longer both to invoke or to get
> back to the source that I'm writing, or I lose editing control while
> the program is running ... etc...
>
> So if the OP is on windows just head over and get EditPlus (UltraEdit
> and TextPad seem to be similar), and just accept the fact that you are
> already using an editor that as good as an editor can get ... I know
> I'd pay that registration once again for an editor that works the same
> way on Linux...
>
> i.
I'm a huge EditPlus fan and there are not enough good things I can say
about it. The main thing about GUIs which unix people don't seem to
get is discoverability is key. Every time I've tried using x-emacs or
x-anything (or even Scite as it seems to be popular), there is very
little that is intuitive or obvious about the interface, and even
though you have a GUI right there in front of you, things are still
controlled in dot whatever files, with some special syntax and magic
words for everything! Even doing a search and replace in x-emacs is
f*cked up. I was trying to use it for something a few years ago (I
dunno, maybe 2002 or 2003 on debian or 2000 on redhat), and it just
didn't work the way I expected it to work, ie it didn't follow what has
become the standard GUI (read: windows) way of doing things. There
should be a dialog for search and replace. If it doesn't do it that
way, then don't pretend to be a gui, because you're not, you're
pandering to the "we want a gui crowd" while still stickin' it to 'em
by forcing them to remember commands for shit like changing word
wrapping (oh my god there's a *mode* for word wrapping? m-x-wtf
change-the-mode-to-something-I-forget-what) and reminding everyone what
a privilege it is to learn f***king lisp to enable some obscure little
tweak which could just as easily have shown up in a checkbox. Scite
was jacked because the main window didn't have anything discoverable on
it, and one of the main menus just had a list of syntaxes you could use
to highlight your code... and the other menu opened up your dot
whatever file to change the settings. That's just retarded.
I think there is a fine line between being too dumbed down to do
anything (point click ooh aahh), and so "flexible", "customizable", and
"free" that it feels you have to roll-your-own text editor each time
you want to start a new project. This is the best article on guis and
stuff I've read in a while.
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/fog0000000249.html
Anyway, the only thing editplus doesn't do that I wish it did is code
folding. All the stuff you guys are talking about: line numbers,
syntax highlighting, custom tools (running the interpreter), regexp
search and replace, keeping your environment the same between sessions,
soft word wrap, tab-vs-spaces, auto-indent, braces-matching, bla bla...
it does it all in an appropriately gui manner without making you feel
like a moron for not psychically knowing the command ahead of time, or
for not having someone to copy a dot whatever file from, or not Reading
TFM (which of course never tells you what you want to know anyway --
it's either a patronizingly simple-minded 3rd grade tutorial, or it
tells you what a command does if you already know its f***king name!).
And of course all these editplus things are accessible via the keyboard
without necessarily hitting alt to go to the menu. And no, it doesn't
read email or newsgroups, run custom scripts to beautify your code, or
have 20MB of stuff to download and 20 years of history to catch up on.
I've rarely needed anything more than straightforward editing, so I
guess I'm not worthy to have an opinion of how shitty *nix is for
pretending to have guis. If you (meaning y'all) like to feel superior
by memorizing commands how to change the word wrapping mode,
braces-indenting mode, background color, foreground color,
braces-matching, apropos-me-this, then by all means make things
difficult for the rest of us lowly non-professional programmers (I'm a
hardware designer by trade, but like to fuck around python for fun).
For me, when I just have something quick and dirty, I use editplus and
that makes me sooo happpyyyyy. If there were something like this for
Linux I might even consider switching long term.
H J van Rooyen
| > No need to argue. I started with vim, and finally switched to
| > emacs less than one year later.
|
| Both are very-much-so good editors. I made the opposite switch
| from emacs to vim in less than a year. Both are good^Wgreat
| editors, so one's decision to use one over the other is more a
| matter of working style. I don't grok LISP, and just never felt
| at home in emacs, despite all the power I could see that was
| there. I grok vim (and its similar power/extensibility), so I
| migrated to it. I have to laugh at the whole holy-war thing, as
| it's somewhat like arguing about a favorite color. "But blue is
| so better than green! The sky is blue!" "Nuh, uh! Green is far
| better than blue! Grass is green!" (okay, here in Texas, that
| doesn't always hold as true...maybe personality #2 should be
| arguing for brown instead).
|
| My best friend is an emacs user, and I'm a vimmer...it doesn't
| come between us. :)
You guys are not gonna believe this - I keep a low grade PC specially so that I
can do my programming with Brief (yes the one by Underware) - and yes I know
Emacs has a so called *crisp* emulator - but IMNSHO it sucks!
I like the macros, I do some stuff with the macro language, and as a mostly
assembler programmer, I adore the way it copies and pastes columns with minimal
keystrokes....
And I switch between buffers (different files - "modules" in Python ) - with an
alt n or alt - .....
and worse - like the confirmed Vi or Emacs user - the problem is that you get
used to it, and ya dont wanna change...
- Hendrik
I wish I could run this on my Linux box....
Paddy
Cream is a package built on top of vim that presents a more "Windows
friendly" face to the vim/gvim editor.
It is avaiable for Windows and Linux and might give you a single editor
that you can use on more platforms, but maybe you might like the
interface better.
It does syntax hilighting for Python and code foding.
- Paddy.
63q2...@sneakemail.com
> Cream is a package built on top of vim that presents a more "Windows
> friendly" face to the vim/gvim editor.
Cool thanks, I'll check it out.
jus...@zeusedit.com
> Anyway, the only thing editplus doesn't do that I wish it
> did is code folding.
If you need a Python folding editor you could always take
a look at Zeus:
http://www.zeusedit.com/python.html
> All the stuff you guys are talking about: line numbers,
> syntax highlighting, custom tools (running the interpreter),
> regexp search and replace, keeping your environment the same
> between sessions, soft word wrap, tab-vs-spaces, auto-indent,
> braces-matching, bla bla... it does it all in an appropriately
> gui manner without making you feel
Zeus does all this, plus it adds features project/workspace
management, ftp editing and class browsing.
Jussi Jumppanen
Author: Zeus for Windows
Ten
Speaking as a user of emacs, imo EditPlus is a very sound little product - I did some
work with it a while back and it stands out in my memory as a fairly pleasant experience.
In the same sort of vein on other platforms, BlueFish is a nice basic GUI-based editor,
and whilst touted as a web editor, it has enough features (piping output or files through
other apps, a configurable dialog for each code snippet, etc.) that it's perfectly usable
as a programming editor of the sort you're referring to.
Still, before you decide to tell all the unix/vim/emacs/whatever users that they're a bunch
of elitist swine, it might be nice to remember that some aren't, and might not deserve to
be branded as such for no reason other than that you, personally, can't stand to use program X!
Incidentally, x-emacs, kde and gnome are not the same as windows, neither is os x, therefore
they may be unfamiliar in some ways. To me that's not really a legitimate technical or HCI-based
criticism of software people have written, it's a statement of the obvious. Is your grill
deficient because it doesn't work in the same way as your toaster?
Something to ponder.
Good luck to you.
Cheers,
Ten.
--
There are 10 types of people in this world,
those who understand binary, and those who don't.