Larry Wall & Cults
Xah Lee
(Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
200012
Dear readers,
Did you know that throughout history there's this thing called cult?
It is a very interesting phenomenon. I don't have time to expound and
teach, but will try to brief you.
These cults, are often lead by a single person. They form a group as
small as a dozen to multinational octopuses (such as
Scientology). Their creed varies from the mild in appearance
(Dianetics) to appalling (flat earth, extraordinary life-after-death,
impinging apocalypse scenarios, militant anti-government conspiracy,
diabolism with human sacrifices ...). Don't think that i'm citing from
some arcane books buried in libraries. These are real, and not
difficult to find in real life. Some of these cult leaders, are so
able to totally wash their member's brain, as to have them
autonomously swear and volunteer to die for the cause of the cult.
Occasionally, you'll even see mass suicide.
You know, the world is not made completely of rubes. Somebody
somewhere, will observe this phenomenon and study or report it as
is. Big brother organizations, such as the FBI, is keen on these and
very interested in benefiting from social psychology themselves. They
are recorded in books too. Ever wonder why the library houses so many
cold volumes of paper? This is one contributing reason. You might be
interested to verify that sometimes.
These brain-washing phenomenon, are not limited to fanatical
life-and-death or otherwise dire beliefs. You see it work in all
manners of human thought in the general sense. From culture formation
to fashion to commercialism. Surely you have heard of Adolf Hitler
and his atrocities of genocide? I must alert you, that a single person
couldn't commit such a crime. You see, even if you are superman, you
can only kill few at a time. You see, it is the people, people like
you and me, who commit the killings willingly, by Hitler's
teaching. You may say: "no, i won't ever do such stupid thing", well
because you are very ignorant about social psychology. It is precisely
innocent people like you and (not) me, who were lead by the radical
leaders of supreme brain-washing abilities. The innocent mob were
fervent in their leader's vision and beliefs to commit anything. You
know the concept of war, right? We have two massive body of people
committed to cut off other people's head or otherwise stick a knife in
their bodies or bomb off an arm or leg. How did that happen? Well, it
starts with patriotism for people like you and (not) me.
Now, back to topic. In the computing world, there're also bad seeds
with colorful creed taking innocent mobs forming cults. The three
principal virtues of a programmer are Laziness, Impatience, and
Hubris. Yes?
How can we prevent heinous cults then? Stop bending truths. Education
and rationalism. I'm starting my own cult to exterminate morons on
this earth. Two things are on the top of my agenda: Unixism and Perl.
--------
This post is archived at
http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/larry_wall_n_cults.html
Copyright 2000-2004 Xah Lee. Verbatim Reproduction for non-commercial
purposes is hereby granted provided proper credit is given.
Alan Balmer
>
>Did you know that throughout history there's this thing called cult?
Yes, we've heard of them.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerc...@att.net
Eric Schwartz
> Did you know that throughout history there's this thing called cult?
I had no idea. Good thing you're here to help us out.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
Rich Teer
> Did you know that throughout history there's this thing called cult?
I think you're getting confused with the Blue Öyster Cult.
Don't Fear the Reaper - great song.
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, author of "Solaris Systems Programming",
published in August 2004.
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
Paul F. Dietz
> I think you're getting confused with the Blue Öyster Cult.
> Don't Fear the Reaper - great song.
A great allegory about garbage collection, wasn't it?
Paul
Tim Hammerquist
Why was Larry's name in the title again? I don't think our illustrious
OP got around to making his point. But at least he got that Nazi
mention in there. Good for him!
Tim Hammerquist
Robert
Peter Hansen
> Isn't "Xah Lee" chinese for "Moron"?
No, it's Esperanto (universal language) for "troll"...
-Peter
Johnny
> How can we prevent heinous cults then? Stop bending truths. Education
> and rationalism. I'm starting my own cult to exterminate morons on
> this earth. Two things are on the top of my agenda: Unixism and Perl.
I bet Larry Wall's life insurance premiums just skyrocketed. BTW, what
does this have to do with Lisp? We are more of a therapy and support
group than a cult.
Espen Vestre
> I think you're getting confused with the Blue Öyster Cult.
> Don't Fear the Reaper - great song.
Great song, but their hard-hitting stuff is even better. For instance
"Lisp in the Hills" or "Career of Eval".
--
(espen ;-)
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
> I think you're getting confused with the Blue Öyster Cult.
Actually, there is also The Cult, a British band that lasted from
1984-1995.
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:5qktk6gx9kr3~T1
Tassilo v. Parseval
> x...@xahlee.org (Xah Lee) wrote in message news:<7fe97cc4.04082...@posting.google.com>...
>
>> How can we prevent heinous cults then? Stop bending truths. Education
>> and rationalism. I'm starting my own cult to exterminate morons on
>> this earth. Two things are on the top of my agenda: Unixism and Perl.
>
> I bet Larry Wall's life insurance premiums just skyrocketed.
It would, if anyone could take Xah Lee Loo seriously. But really, no one
can. He's more like the court jester, creeping out of the dark every so
and so months. We're all very much enjoying his sporadic shows. Really.
;-)
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
Michiel Borkent
;).
Btw:
(english-to-esperanto "troll") ==> "trolo"
Michiel
"Peter Hansen" <pe...@engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:aNidnUSV4-O...@powergate.ca...
Peter Hansen
> "Peter Hansen" <pe...@engcorp.com> wrote:
>>No, it's Esperanto (universal language) for "troll"...
> Erm, please don't make false propaganda for the language I happen to love
> ;).
>
> Btw:
>
> (english-to-esperanto "troll") ==> "trolo"
Pardonu... estis sxerco, evidente!
-Peter
Pete Fenelon
>
> That's OK. I've done it for you. Now, try investigating "Rambling
> Sid Rumpo".
>
I need to fossick through me ganderbag and work out a way of mp3ing my
taped collection of Rambling Syd's artefacts, me dearios.
pete
--
pe...@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas"
Michiel Borkent
Amike,
Michiel
--
LISP and Esperanto: my favorite languages.
Visit http://www.pictureofthemoon.net/~borkent for my webpage.
---
"Peter Hansen" <pe...@engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:Nbudnes8cfD...@powergate.ca...
Sara
> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
> 200012
>
> Dear readers,
>
> Did you know that throughout history there's this thing called cult?
> It is a very interesting phenomenon. I don't have time to expound and
> teach, but will try to brief you.
>
>
Hey this ain't no CULT! Our creedo is simply:
"Larry said it, I believe it, THAT settles it!"
If you don't believe it just look at the reaction if any questions any
element of Perl design!
norman werner
Bonvolu ne s:ercu pri nekonatoj aferoj. "Xah Lee" certe - pro manko de
Ikso - ne estas esperanto. Kaj via s:erco nur s:tulta estas.
Norman
tradukita:
You certainly have not the slightest idea about esperanto. So please
dont't emberass yourself. And back to topic(?): "Xah lee" is not
esperanto.
Markus Wankus
>>Don't Fear the Reaper - great song.
>
>
It was a great song, but it needed more cowbell...
Mark.
R Baumann
"Xah Lee" <x...@xahlee.org> wrote in message
news:7fe97cc4.04082...@posting.google.com...
> Larry Wall and Cults
> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
> 200012
>
In this context --- This is the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard. What a
maroon! What a Trollup!
RB
Arthur
wrote:
His plane curve work is not far from some of my own obsessions. I knew
of and admired his site.
Didn't know he had other interests as well ;)
Maybe an extreme me.
All obsessions in moderation, is my motto.
Art
>RB
>
Johnny Storm
"Markus Wankus" <markus_wankusG...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Q3lXc.22457$_H5.6...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Gotta have more cowbell. . . .
Johnny
Grant Edwards
> Hey this ain't no CULT! Our creedo is simply:
>
> "Larry said it, I believe it, THAT settles it!"
>
> If you don't believe it just look at the reaction if any questions any
> element of Perl design!
Over here in c.l.python, it's more like
"Guido said it, that settles it, but we're going to discuss
it endlessly and and vote on it using six or seven
different voting algorithms anyway. Then we'll argue about
the voting algorithms."
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm ZIPPY!! Are we
at having FUN yet??
visi.com
Alan Balmer
wrote:
That's fortunate, since Xah Lee obviously needs those services.
John Savard
>Did you know that throughout history there's this thing called cult?
We have heard of it.
>Don't think that i'm citing from
>some arcane books buried in libraries. These are real, and not
>difficult to find in real life.
Unlike the cult of Chthulhu, for example.
>Big brother organizations, such as the FBI, is keen on these and
>very interested in benefiting from social psychology themselves. They
>are recorded in books too. Ever wonder why the library houses so many
>cold volumes of paper? This is one contributing reason. You might be
>interested to verify that sometimes.
Ah, yes. If it weren't for the interest of the FBI in cults, our
libraries would be much smaller, or they would emphasize warm audio and
video recordings more.
>Surely you have heard of Adolf Hitler
>and his atrocities of genocide?
Yes, you are rather safe in assuming that.
>I must alert you, that a single person
>couldn't commit such a crime. You see, even if you are superman, you
>can only kill few at a time.
Yes, despite claims at the Nuremberg trials, Hitler didn't run the
concentration camps as a one-man operation.
>You see, it is the people, people like
>you and me, who commit the killings willingly, by Hitler's
>teaching. You may say: "no, i won't ever do such stupid thing", well
>because you are very ignorant about social psychology. It is precisely
>innocent people like you and (not) me, who were lead by the radical
>leaders of supreme brain-washing abilities. The innocent mob were
>fervent in their leader's vision and beliefs to commit anything.
They did, though, have to select from the German people those who would
operate the concentration camps.
As for the masses, it was enough that they were afraid to try to do
anything to stop it.
>How can we prevent heinous cults then? Stop bending truths. Education
>and rationalism. I'm starting my own cult to exterminate morons on
>this earth. Two things are on the top of my agenda: Unixism and Perl.
You are not providing any validation for your claim that these things
are so dangerous that the use of deadly force is justified or necessary.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
Randal L. Schwartz
>>>>> "Grant" == Grant Edwards <gra...@visi.com> writes:
Grant> "Guido said it, that settles it, but we're going to discuss
Grant> it endlessly and and vote on it using six or seven
Grant> different voting algorithms anyway. Then we'll argue about
Grant> the voting algorithms."
Are the voting algorithms indented consistently? That's a necessity,
correct? Surely, they have significant whitespace.
/me ducks back under his rock
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<mer...@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
-----= Posted via Newsfeed.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeed.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== 100,000 Groups! - 19 Servers! - Unlimited Download! =-----
Grant Edwards
> *** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
>
>>>>>> "Grant" == Grant Edwards <gra...@visi.com> writes:
>
>Grant> "Guido said it, that settles it, but we're going to discuss
>Grant> it endlessly and and vote on it using six or seven
>Grant> different voting algorithms anyway. Then we'll argue about
>Grant> the voting algorithms."
>
> Are the voting algorithms indented consistently? That's a
> necessity, correct?
Of course, but are they consistently indented using tabs or
spaces?
> Surely, they have significant whitespace.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Gee, I feel kind of
at LIGHT in the head now,
visi.com knowing I can't make my
satellite dish PAYMENTS!
Rich Teer
> Rich Teer <rich...@rite-group.com> writes:
>
> > I think you're getting confused with the Blue Öyster Cult.
>
> Actually, there is also The Cult, a British band that lasted from
> 1984-1995.
I belive the Cult (She Sells Sanctuary, etc.) is another manfifestation
of the Blue Öyster Cult.
Reid Nichol
> They did, though, have to select from the German people those who
> would operate the concentration camps.
for one reason or another. Yes, some people didn't need brain-washing
to believe him. I know it's a radical idea that some people are racist,
but it true!
> As for the masses, it was enough that they were afraid to try to do
> anything to stop it.
Perhaps you should look into the history books a little closer. There
was this thing call the resistance in *all* the countries you know, not
to mention the anti-nazi publications in the papers during his rise to
power. And without those resistance fighters, the allies might have
failed in there endeavour.
Why did you even give an actual reply to this guy anyway?
Pete Fenelon
> In this context --- This is the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard. What a
> maroon! What a Trollup!
>
He doesn't quite win, there's one regular afc troll who narrowly edges
him out... but I won't mention his name because that tends to invoke
him. ;)
David H. Adler
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:
>
>> Rich Teer <rich...@rite-group.com> writes:
>>
>> > I think you're getting confused with the Blue Öyster Cult.
>>
>> Actually, there is also The Cult, a British band that lasted from
>> 1984-1995.
>
> I belive the Cult (She Sells Sanctuary, etc.) is another manfifestation
> of the Blue Öyster Cult.
Not in the sense of being any of the same people.
Perhaps you mean that there is some sort of jungian archetype "cult" of
which these are both examples. :-)
dha
--
David H. Adler - <d...@panix.com> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
One should never say such things, it's like wearing red overalls
in Pamplona.
- Jarkko Hietaniemi
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
> I belive the Cult (She Sells Sanctuary, etc.) is another manfifestation
> of the Blue Öyster Cult.
Does not seem so: Founding member Ian Astbury is not listed as member
of any other groups, for instance.
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:5qktk6gx9kr3~T1
j...@invalid.address
> Larry Wall and Cults
> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
> 200012
[ Poor standup comedy deleted ]
> These brain-washing phenomenon, are not limited to fanatical
> life-and-death or otherwise dire beliefs. You see it work in all
> manners of human thought in the general sense. From culture formation
> to fashion to commercialism. Surely you have heard of Adolf Hitler
Godwin! In the first post of the thread too...
Joe
--
If you don't think too good, don't think too much
- Ted Williams
Stefan Monnier
Sounds suicidal to me,
Stefan
Jeff Shannon
>On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Tor Iver Wilhelmsen wrote:
>
>
>
>>Rich Teer <rich...@rite-group.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I think you're getting confused with the Blue Öyster Cult.
>>>
>>>
>>Actually, there is also The Cult, a British band that lasted from
>>1984-1995.
>>
>>
>
>I belive the Cult (She Sells Sanctuary, etc.) is another manfifestation
>of the Blue Öyster Cult.
>
>
No, the two are totally unrelated. (One was American (New York) and led
by Eric Bloom, the other was British (London) and led by Ian Astbury.)
However, The Cult did have an earlier incarnation as Southern Death Cult.
Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International
Otto Wyss
> It would, if anyone could take Xah Lee Loo seriously. But really, no one
> can. He's more like the court jester, creeping out of the dark every so
> and so months. We're all very much enjoying his sporadic shows. Really.
>
> ;-)
>
No offense but could you add some references so anyone can make up is
own opinion?
O. Wyss
--
How to enhance your code, see "http://freshmeat.net/projects/wxguide/"
Otto Wyss
> this earth. Two things are on the top of my agenda: Unixism and Perl.
>
What you mean with Unixism?
Albert Reiner
> LISP and Esperanto: my favorite languages.
Ankaux miaj - krom, eble, ankaux la Haskella.
Stranga koncentrigxo de verdlingvanoj cxe cll, cxu ne?
Albert.
MPB
On 25 Aug 2004 14:56:06 -0700, Xah Lee <x...@xahlee.org> wrote:
> Larry Wall and Cults
> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
...
> Xah
> x...@xahlee.org
> http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html
Pascal Bourguignon
> Xah Lee <x...@xahlee.org> wrote:
>
> > this earth. Two things are on the top of my agenda: Unixism and Perl.
> >
> What you mean with Unixism?
It's always funny to observe people's contradictions:
Last week i bought a chain saw with a
twisted handle. Perhaps i wasn't
careful, but by accident it chopped one
of my arm off, then i thought to myself
"gosh, this is POWERFUL!". This seems to
be the fashionable mode of thinking
among the unixers or unixer-to-be, who
would equate power and flexibility with
rawness and complexity; disciplined by
repeated accidents. Such a tool would
first chop off the user's brain, molding
a mass of brainless imbeciles and
microcephalic charlatans the likes of
Larry Wall and Linus Torvald jolly
asses. --Xah Lee
$ telnet xahlee.org 80;
Trying 208.186.130.4...
Connected to xahlee.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.1
HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:35:52 GMT
Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never
stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and
neither do we.
Otto Wyss
> > What you mean with Unixism?
>
> It's always funny to observe people's contradictions:
>
>
> Last week i bought a chain saw with a
> twisted handle. Perhaps i wasn't
> careful, but by accident it chopped one
> of my arm off, then i thought to myself
> "gosh, this is POWERFUL!". This seems to
> be the fashionable mode of thinking
> among the unixers or unixer-to-be, who
Thanks, for the clarification. For a none native English it's sometimes
difficult to grasp the underlying meaning. And do I understand it right
that Xah Lee _speaks_ against "Unixism" instead of producing code?
Well then I may point at "wyoism", the cult of the code producer.
;-)
Reynir Stefánsson
>On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Xah Lee wrote:
>
>> Did you know that throughout history there's this thing called cult?
>
>I think you're getting confused with the Blue Öyster Cult.
>Don't Fear the Reaper - great song.
And then there's this crazy little thing called love...
--
Reynir Stefánsson (reyn...@mi.is)
Reynir Stefánsson
Well, wasn't it lwall that said: "All language designers are arrogant.
Comes with the territory."?
--
Reynir Stefánsson (reyn...@mi.is)
Kenny Tilton
Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
So you like my approach, which is to condemn things they have never used?
:)
kenny
--
Cells? Cello? Celtik?: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/cells/
Why Lisp? http://alu.cliki.net/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
George Neuner
wrote:
>The Cult did have an earlier incarnation as Southern Death Cult.
And Blue Oyster Cult was originally Soft White Underbelly.
George
--
for email reply remove "/" from address
George Neuner
>
> Unixism
>
"Isms", in my opinion, are not good. A person should not believe in
an "ism". He should believe in himself.
Ferris Bueller
Rich Teer
> And then there's this crazy little thing called love...
Nah - that was Queen!
Tassilo v. Parseval
> Tassilo v. Parseval <tassilo.vo...@rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>
>> It would, if anyone could take Xah Lee Loo seriously. But really, no one
>> can. He's more like the court jester, creeping out of the dark every so
>> and so months. We're all very much enjoying his sporadic shows. Really.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
> No offense but could you add some references so anyone can make up is
> own opinion?
For instance this one:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=ced06f6c6a36927f&rnum=4>
Pay particular attention to the fact that he's whining about a certain
feature of a Perl module but posts not only in comp.lang.perl.misc but
also in the scheme, lisp, python and ruby group.
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
norman werner
estas koncentrig:o. Ambau: lingvoj estas elektata de inteligentaj homoj :)
Espereble mi ne g:ustas - ne mi s:atas induktitan konkludon pri homaro.
Norman
Pascal Bourguignon
> > first chop off the user's brain, molding
> > a mass of brainless imbeciles and
> > microcephalic charlatans the likes of
> > Larry Wall and Linus Torvald jolly
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> So you like my approach, which is to condemn things they have never used?
>
> :)
No, that of no more using things that you condemn.
Peter Hansen
> Peter Hansen <pe...@engcorp.com> wrote:
>>Robert wrote:
>>>Isn't "Xah Lee" chinese for "Moron"?
>>No, it's Esperanto (universal language) for "troll"...
>
> Bonvolu ne s:ercu pri nekonatoj aferoj. "Xah Lee" certe - pro manko de
> Ikso - ne estas esperanto. Kaj via s:erco nur s:tulta estas.
>
> Norman
> tradukita:
> You certainly have not the slightest idea about esperanto. So please
> dont't emberass yourself. And back to topic(?): "Xah lee" is not
> esperanto.
Well, let's see how your clear your mind was today.
Either it's a joke, in which case it is clear to all
that it doesn't really mean troll, or it's not a joke
in which case I obviously don't know Esperanto.
Here are the facts:
1. It's a joke, as you surmised.
2. I know Esperanto.
Now can you perhaps see that your first comment in the poor
translation of your own Esperanto is invalid and offensive?
By the way, to those not fluent in both languages, what this
fellow really wrote was more along the lines of "Please do not
joke about things you don't know about. Xah Lee certainly --
because Esperanto has no "x" -- is not Esperanto. And your
joke is merely stupid."
If you're going to accuse me of stupidity, please at least
get your own translation and logic skills in working order
first.
-Peter
Paul F. Dietz
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Reynir Stefánsson wrote:
>
>
>>And then there's this crazy little thing called love...
>
>
> Nah - that was Queen!
When I was seventeen
I drank some very good beer.
I drank some very good beer
I purchased with a fake ID.
My name was Brian McGee.
I stayed up listening to Queen.
When I was seventeen.
Paul (channeling Homer)
John Thingstad
rlol
On 25 Aug 2004 14:56:06 -0700, Xah Lee <x...@xahlee.org> wrote:
> Larry Wall and Cults
> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
> 200012
>
> Dear readers,
>
> Did you know that throughout history there's this thing called cult?
> It is a very interesting phenomenon. I don't have time to expound and
> teach, but will try to brief you.
>
> These cults, are often lead by a single person. They form a group as
> small as a dozen to multinational octopuses (such as
> Scientology). Their creed varies from the mild in appearance
> (Dianetics) to appalling (flat earth, extraordinary life-after-death,
> impinging apocalypse scenarios, militant anti-government conspiracy,
> diabolism with human sacrifices ...). Don't think that i'm citing from
> some arcane books buried in libraries. These are real, and not
> difficult to find in real life. Some of these cult leaders, are so
> able to totally wash their member's brain, as to have them
> autonomously swear and volunteer to die for the cause of the cult.
> Occasionally, you'll even see mass suicide.
>
> You know, the world is not made completely of rubes. Somebody
> somewhere, will observe this phenomenon and study or report it as
> is. Big brother organizations, such as the FBI, is keen on these and
> very interested in benefiting from social psychology themselves. They
> are recorded in books too. Ever wonder why the library houses so many
> cold volumes of paper? This is one contributing reason. You might be
> interested to verify that sometimes.
>
> These brain-washing phenomenon, are not limited to fanatical
> life-and-death or otherwise dire beliefs. You see it work in all
> manners of human thought in the general sense. From culture formation
> to fashion to commercialism. Surely you have heard of Adolf Hitler
> and his atrocities of genocide? I must alert you, that a single person
> couldn't commit such a crime. You see, even if you are superman, you
> can only kill few at a time. You see, it is the people, people like
> you and me, who commit the killings willingly, by Hitler's
> teaching. You may say: "no, i won't ever do such stupid thing", well
> because you are very ignorant about social psychology. It is precisely
> innocent people like you and (not) me, who were lead by the radical
> leaders of supreme brain-washing abilities. The innocent mob were
> fervent in their leader's vision and beliefs to commit anything. You
> know the concept of war, right? We have two massive body of people
> committed to cut off other people's head or otherwise stick a knife in
> their bodies or bomb off an arm or leg. How did that happen? Well, it
> starts with patriotism for people like you and (not) me.
>
> Now, back to topic. In the computing world, there're also bad seeds
> with colorful creed taking innocent mobs forming cults. The three
> principal virtues of a programmer are Laziness, Impatience, and
> Hubris. Yes?
>
> How can we prevent heinous cults then? Stop bending truths. Education
> and rationalism. I'm starting my own cult to exterminate morons on
> this earth. Two things are on the top of my agenda: Unixism and Perl.
>
> --------
> This post is archived at
> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/larry_wall_n_cults.html
>
> Copyright 2000-2004 Xah Lee. Verbatim Reproduction for non-commercial
> purposes is hereby granted provided proper credit is given.
>
> Xah
> x...@xahlee.org
> http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
Grant Edwards <gra...@visi.com> wrote:
>On 2004-08-26, Sara <gene...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey this ain't no CULT! Our creedo is simply:
>> "Larry said it, I believe it, THAT settles it!"
>> If you don't believe it just look at the reaction if any questions any
>> element of Perl design!
>Over here in c.l.python, it's more like
> "Guido said it, that settles it, but we're going to discuss
> it endlessly and and vote on it using six or seven
> different voting algorithms anyway. Then we'll argue about
> the voting algorithms."
Now I understand what happenend in the 2000 election: Al Gore, after
inventing the internet, became a python programmer :)
hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
doc...@psu.edu 111 Hiller (814) 375-4846 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
R Baumann <ry...@9yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Xah Lee" <x...@xahlee.org> wrote in message
>news:7fe97cc4.04082...@posting.google.com...
>> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
>> 200012
>In this context --- This is the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard.
Nah. I practiced law for five years. :)
David Schwartz
"Pascal Bourguignon" <sp...@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:878yc0u...@thalassa.informatimago.com...
> Kenny Tilton <kti...@nyc.rr.com> writes:
>> >>What you mean with Unixism?
>> > repeated accidents. Such a tool would
>> > first chop off the user's brain, molding
>> > a mass of brainless imbeciles and
>> > microcephalic charlatans the likes of
>> > Larry Wall and Linus Torvald jolly
>> > Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
>> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> So you like my approach, which is to condemn things they have never used?
>>
>> :)
>
> No, that of no more using things that you condemn.
I don't follow you at all. I think you'll find the most useful,
meaningful complaints about, say, a Ford Explorer from the people who drive
one every day.
DS
ctc...@hotmail.com
And if they continue to drive one everyday, perhaps you would conclude
that their complaints are insincere.
Xho
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
Stephen Kellett
<espen@*do-not-spam-me*.vestre.net> writes
>Great song, but their hard-hitting stuff is even better. For instance
>"Lisp in the Hills" or "Career of Eval".
They even provided your very own theme tune to red/black trees -
"The Red and the Black"
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk
RSI Information: http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
Brendon Caligari
> $ telnet xahlee.org 80;
> Trying 208.186.130.4...
> Connected to xahlee.org.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> GET / HTTP/1.1
>
> HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:35:52 GMT
> Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's a hosting provider. Funny though how they would use something like
Fedora.
Pascal Bourguignon
I'd expect to get these complaints indeed from people who drove it,
but I'd be puzzled if they'd continued to drive it every day.
Tim Hammerquist
> Grant Edwards <gra...@visi.com> wrote:
> > Of course, but are they consistently indented using tabs or spaces?
>
> AND HOW MANY SPACES PER TAB STOP?
You just reminded me of the infamous variable naming debate:
- visualBasicStyle
- javaStyle
- perl_style
- jumbledstyle
/me ducks out as sparks fly....
Tim Hammerquist
David Schwartz
<ctc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:20040827135423.154$1...@newsreader.com...
> "David Schwartz" <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:
>> I don't follow you at all. I think you'll find the most useful,
>> meaningful complaints about, say, a Ford Explorer from the people who
>> drive one every day.
> And if they continue to drive one everyday, perhaps you would conclude
> that their complaints are insincere.
That's a load of crap.
DS
Rob Warnock
+---------------
| $ telnet xahlee.org 80;
| Trying 208.186.130.4...
| Connected to xahlee.org.
| Escape character is '^]'.
| GET / HTTP/1.1
|
| HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
| Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:35:52 GMT
| Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So are you complaining about the fact that his hosting provider
preloaded RedHat Fedora with Apache 2.0 for him? [A lot of them do,
these days, 'cuz it's much cheaper than preloading RedHat Enterprise.]
Or are you complaining about that perfectly correct error message
which pointed out that you omitted a required HTTP/1.1 header? ;-} ;-}
% telnet xahlee.org 80
Trying 208.186.130.4...
Connected to xahlee.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.1
Host: xahlee.org
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 05:16:44 GMT
Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
Last-Modified: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:36:38 GMT
ETag: "c41bc-87b-a8715980"
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 2171
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2 Final//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>Xah's Homepage</title>
</head>
<body ... >
...[trimmed]...
</body>
</html>
%
-Rob
-----
Rob Warnock <rp...@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue <URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403 (650)572-2607
Pascal Bourguignon
> Pascal Bourguignon <sp...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> +---------------
> | $ telnet xahlee.org 80;
> | Trying 208.186.130.4...
> | Connected to xahlee.org.
> | Escape character is '^]'.
> | GET / HTTP/1.1
> |
> | HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
> | Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:35:52 GMT
> | Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
> | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> +---------------
>
> So are you complaining about the fact that his hosting provider
> preloaded RedHat Fedora with Apache 2.0 for him? [A lot of them do,
> these days, 'cuz it's much cheaper than preloading RedHat Enterprise.]
>
> Or are you complaining about that perfectly correct error message
> which pointed out that you omitted a required HTTP/1.1 header? ;-} ;-}
Obviously, I'm complaining the contradiction between his opinion about
unix about what I've underlined.
And I take care to select my hosting providers not using MS-Windows
(since I'm critical about MS-Windows).
jmfb...@aol.com
jdoh...@nowhere.null.not (John Doherty) wrote:
>In article <412e199e$0$8076$a186...@newsreader.visi.com>, Grant Edwards
><gra...@visi.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2004-08-26, Randal L. Schwartz <mer...@stonehenge.com> wrote:
>> > *** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
>> >
>> >>>>>> "Grant" == Grant Edwards <gra...@visi.com> writes:
>> >
>> >Grant> "Guido said it, that settles it, but we're going to discuss
>> >Grant> it endlessly and and vote on it using six or seven
>> >Grant> different voting algorithms anyway. Then we'll argue about
>> >Grant> the voting algorithms."
>> >
>> > Are the voting algorithms indented consistently? That's a
>> > necessity, correct?
>>
>> Of course, but are they consistently indented using tabs or
>> spaces?
>
>AND HOW MANY SPACES PER TAB STOP?
Eight. Now talk about indenting skip returns...that one
required blood transfusions. [emoticon looks at list of n.g.]
I guess not many will understand.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
jmfb...@aol.com
Andre Majorel
> Pascal Bourguignon <sp...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> +---------------
>| $ telnet xahlee.org 80;
>| Trying 208.186.130.4...
>| Connected to xahlee.org.
>| Escape character is '^]'.
>| GET / HTTP/1.1
>|
>| HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
>| Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:35:52 GMT
>| Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
>| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> +---------------
>
> So are you complaining about the fact that his hosting provider
> preloaded RedHat Fedora with Apache 2.0 for him?
There is no shortage of Windows-based hosting companies, so why
didn't he go there ? Whatever your opinions, it's best to put
your money where your mouth is if you expect to be taken
seriously.
--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
"See daddy ? All the keys are in alphabetical order now."
Ian Wilson
You're both right but ...
Xah Lee: "I'm starting my own cult to exterminate morons on
this earth. Two things are on the top of my agenda: Unixism and Perl."
Pascal Bourguignon: <Xah Lee's website runs on Linux, a Unix-like OS>
Is more like
Joe Blow: I'm going to exterminate all morons who drive a Ford Explorer.
Fred Bloggs: But Joe, you drive a Ford Explorer!
Rather than
Joe Blow: Ford Explorers are a little bit expensive to service and the
doors squeak after a couple of years.
Fred Bloggs: Thanks for the tip Joe, I see you drive one, so you should
know.
Pascal Bourguignon
Mac
> Larry Wall and Cults
> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
> 200012
>
> Dear readers,
>
[snip]
> Surely you have heard of Adolf Hitler
> and his atrocities of genocide? I must alert you, that a single person
> couldn't commit such a crime.
Wow, Godwin's law invoked on the first post of the thread.
--Mac
Rob Warnock
| jdoh...@nowhere.null.not (John Doherty) wrote:
| >AND HOW MANY SPACES PER TAB STOP?
|
| Eight. Now talk about indenting skip returns...that one
| required blood transfusions. [emoticon looks at list of n.g.]
| I guess not many will understand.
You might be surprised, Barb. Quite a few of the comp.lang.lisp crew
are former PDP-10 geeks. ;-}
And just to be sure *I'm* understanding what you're talking about, ;-}
did you mean the convention of the second line of the following snippet?
foo: pushj p,ckperm
pjrst badprm ; user lacks privs, complain & return.
movei t0,cmdblk ; o.k. to proceed.
...
Indenting the non-skip return for a subroutine call was always pretty
clear to me. Where things got really muddled (and contentious!) was
when you had long skip chains of T{R,L}{Z,O,C,~}{N,E} instructions
in which whether a particular instruction was in the skipped-to or
non-skipped position depended dynamically on the flow of control
above it. [HAKMEM was chock-full of that kind of "efficient" code.]
In that case, it seemed more readable to simply not indent anything in
the skip chain, and put a scary comment warning about the tricky code.
Brian Inglis
<f...@bar.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:56:06 -0700, Xah Lee wrote:
>
>> Larry Wall and Cults
>> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
>> 200012
>> Surely you have heard of Adolf Hitler
>> and his atrocities of genocide? I must alert you, that a single person
>> couldn't commit such a crime.
>
>Wow, Godwin's law invoked on the first post of the thread.
Not quite, no comparison was made; see:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=1991Oct22.140831.23313%40eff.org
--
Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Brian....@CSi.com (Brian[dot]Inglis{at}SystematicSW[dot]ab[dot]ca)
fake address use address above to reply
Steve O'Hara-Smith
jdoh...@nowhere.null.not (John Doherty) wrote:
> In article <412e199e$0$8076$a186...@newsreader.visi.com>, Grant Edwards
> <gra...@visi.com> wrote:
> > Of course, but are they consistently indented using tabs or
> > spaces?
>
> AND HOW MANY SPACES PER TAB STOP?
One half inch is my preference for tab stops usually. A tab is a
tab and not some number of spaces.
--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
| http://www.sohara.org/
Joe Smith
>>AND HOW MANY SPACES PER TAB STOP?
>
> Eight. Now talk about indenting skip returns...that one
> required blood transfusions. [emoticon looks at list of n.g.]
> I guess not many will understand.
I understand.
The style I used for PDP-10 macro assembly language was
*) Indent two spaces for error return from subroutine or UUO (or jsys)
*) Indent one space for instructions that skip or may skip.
The other point of contention was what to put between the opcode and
its arguments; space vs tab. I had some TECO macros that would
undo the damage after pristine code had been munged by someone
not conforming to style. :-)
-Joe
jmfb...@aol.com
rp...@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) wrote:
>+---------------
>| jdoh...@nowhere.null.not (John Doherty) wrote:
>| >AND HOW MANY SPACES PER TAB STOP?
>|
>| Eight. Now talk about indenting skip returns...that one
>| required blood transfusions. [emoticon looks at list of n.g.]
>| I guess not many will understand.
>+---------------
>
>You might be surprised, Barb. Quite a few of the comp.lang.lisp crew
>are former PDP-10 geeks. ;-}
<GRIN> Yep for Lisp, but Perl and Python? Everything after python is
printing off my screen (I hate forms).
>
>And just to be sure *I'm* understanding what you're talking about, ;-}
>did you mean the convention of the second line of the following snippet?
Yep, but you have a bug. The MOVEI [emoticon scrolls down to look]
heh... my reply form is non-porportional and now everything is
wrong. That's why the hard and fast rule of 8 was used in PDP-10
land.
>
> foo: pushj p,ckperm
> pjrst badprm ; user lacks privs, complain & return.
> movei t0,cmdblk ; o.k. to proceed.
> ...
>
>Indenting the non-skip return for a subroutine call was always pretty
>clear to me.
It was to the -20 types, too. The -10 types maintained that,
if the human code reader didn't know the call had a skip return,
he had no business looking at the code. Having the opcodes all
line up left-justified made reading code quickly possible.
> ..Where things got really muddled (and contentious!) was
>when you had long skip chains of T{R,L}{Z,O,C,~}{N,E} instructions
>in which whether a particular instruction was in the skipped-to or
>non-skipped position depended dynamically on the flow of control
>above it. [HAKMEM was chock-full of that kind of "efficient" code.]
>In that case, it seemed more readable to simply not indent anything in
>the skip chain, and put a scary comment warning about the tricky code.
If you knew your biz, you didn't need the scary warning. Now
consider a list of PUSHJs where each could have a skip,
double-skip or triple-skip return. Depending on which way
you're flowing through the code, each and every one could be
indented and not-indented.
jmfb...@aol.com
jmfb...@aol.com
<GRIN> And we had some that put them back.
Mac
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:59:08 -0700 in alt.folklore.computers, Mac
> <f...@bar.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:56:06 -0700, Xah Lee wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Wall and Cults
>>> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
>>> 200012
>
>>> Surely you have heard of Adolf Hitler
>>> and his atrocities of genocide? I must alert you, that a single person
>>> couldn't commit such a crime.
>>
>>Wow, Godwin's law invoked on the first post of the thread.
>
> Not quite, no comparison was made; see:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=1991Oct22.140831.23313%40eff.org
Hmm. No explicit comparison was made, but since the post is a cautionary
tale (well, the post is a rambling mess, but I think it is trying to be a
cautionary tale) I think the comparison is understood.
But if the comparison must be explicit, as you seem to be saying, then I
have to concede the point.
Best regards,
Mac
Brian Inglis
<f...@bar.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 06:58:30 +0000, Brian Inglis wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:59:08 -0700 in alt.folklore.computers, Mac
>> <f...@bar.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:56:06 -0700, Xah Lee wrote:
>>>
>>>> Larry Wall and Cults
>>>> (Lazyness, Impatience and Hubris)
>>>> 200012
>>
>>>> Surely you have heard of Adolf Hitler
>>>> and his atrocities of genocide? I must alert you, that a single person
>>>> couldn't commit such a crime.
>>>
>>>Wow, Godwin's law invoked on the first post of the thread.
>>
>> Not quite, no comparison was made; see:
>> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=1991Oct22.140831.23313%40eff.org
>
>
>Hmm. No explicit comparison was made, but since the post is a cautionary
>tale (well, the post is a rambling mess, but I think it is trying to be a
>cautionary tale) I think the comparison is understood.
>
>But if the comparison must be explicit, as you seem to be saying, then I
>have to concede the point.
Google for the Godwin's Law FAQ on how to troll on Usenet, mention
Nazis, and not be caught by Godwins' Law.
Michele Dondi
<tassilo.vo...@rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>> I bet Larry Wall's life insurance premiums just skyrocketed.
>
>It would, if anyone could take Xah Lee Loo seriously. But really, no one
>can. He's more like the court jester, creeping out of the dark every so
>and so months. We're all very much enjoying his sporadic shows. Really.
Really!
Michele
--
you'll see that it shouldn't be so. AND, the writting as usuall is
fantastic incompetent. To illustrate, i quote:
- Xah Lee trolling on clpmisc,
"perl bug File::Basename and Perl's nature"
norman werner
>
> Either it's a joke, in which case it is clear to all
> that it doesn't really mean troll, or it's not a joke
> in which case I obviously don't know Esperanto.
>
>
I read it as an 'two-in-one'.
A (not funny) joke about the troll and an infantile sideremark about
eo spreading more half-truths.
"universal language" - Whats that? What is a universal language ...
Besides expressing basic wishes for food, attention or love. And
where is/was the relation between the troll and eo?
> Here are the facts:
>
> 1. It's a joke, as you surmised.
>
> 2. I know Esperanto.
i read it _later_ . From youre joke it seemed more like you "heard of
esperanto".
So I hereby withdraw the accusation of stupidity - standing firm only
on the not-funny-front.
> Now can you perhaps see that your first comment in the poor
> translation of your own Esperanto is invalid and offensive?
Allright - it was not a translation - the error was to call it an
translation. But since only a extremly small minority of readers could
read both - it seemed ok for me to change not the basic-message but
the way to express this message. E.g. I could not see the relevance
for a non-eo-speaker of eo having a x or not. So i changed this in the
"translation".
> By the way, to those not fluent in both languages, what this
> fellow really wrote was more along the lines of "Please do not
> joke about things you don't know about. Xah Lee certainly --
> because Esperanto has no "x" -- is not Esperanto. And your
> joke is merely stupid."
Yep.
>
> If you're going to accuse me of stupidity, please at least
> get your own translation and logic skills in working order
> first.
At least i was not the only who misunderstood you.
And please; Since you elaborated on my "translation" - it's ok to
criticize.
But the same does not hold true for my logic-skill-malfunction - so
either do not diagnose it or elaborate more on it.
Norman
David Schwartz
"Ian Wilson" <scob...@infotop.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cgq7ki$eg1$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
>>>> I don't follow you at all. I think you'll find the most useful,
>>>>meaningful complaints about, say, a Ford Explorer from the people who
>>>>drive one every day.
>>>And if they continue to drive one everyday, perhaps you would conclude
>>>that their complaints are insincere.
>> That's a load of crap.
> You're both right but ...
>
> Xah Lee: "I'm starting my own cult to exterminate morons on
> this earth. Two things are on the top of my agenda: Unixism and Perl."
>
> Pascal Bourguignon: <Xah Lee's website runs on Linux, a Unix-like OS>
>
> Is more like
>
> Joe Blow: I'm going to exterminate all morons who drive a Ford Explorer.
>
> Fred Bloggs: But Joe, you drive a Ford Explorer!
The you're missing is that 'unixism' has nothing to do with *using*
UNIX.
> Rather than
>
> Joe Blow: Ford Explorers are a little bit expensive to service and the
> doors squeak after a couple of years.
>
> Fred Bloggs: Thanks for the tip Joe, I see you drive one, so you should
> know.
The problem with 'unixism' is its affect on UNIX, and it would be
logical that only those people who use UNIXes are affected by 'unixism' and
concerned about it.
DS
Alan Balmer
<sp...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> I don't follow you at all. I think you'll find the most useful,
>> meaningful complaints about, say, a Ford Explorer from the people who drive
>> one every day.
>
>I'd expect to get these complaints indeed from people who drove it,
>but I'd be puzzled if they'd continued to drive it every day.
Not me. I'd just assume that they couldn't afford to switch vehicles
whenever they had a complaint.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerc...@att.net
Antony Sequeira
> On 2004-08-28, Rob Warnock <rp...@rpw3.org> wrote:
>
>>Pascal Bourguignon <sp...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>+---------------
>>| $ telnet xahlee.org 80;
>>| Trying 208.186.130.4...
>>| Connected to xahlee.org.
>>| Escape character is '^]'.
>>| GET / HTTP/1.1
>>|
>>| HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
>>| Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:35:52 GMT
>>| Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
>>| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>+---------------
>>
>>So are you complaining about the fact that his hosting provider
>>preloaded RedHat Fedora with Apache 2.0 for him?
>
>
> There is no shortage of Windows-based hosting companies, so why
> didn't he go there ? Whatever your opinions, it's best to put
> your money where your mouth is if you expect to be taken
> seriously.
>
-Antony
Pascal Bourguignon
Rob Warnock
| > Windows (MS) is not 'Unixism'?
|
| It's VMS'ism !
Well, originally, certainly, in the core of the kernel.
But there are plenty enough "Unixisms" in the rest of it!
[Go re-read "Worse is Better", then see if you don't agree...]
Andre Majorel
If by unixism, you mean any operating system that has a
hierarchical filesystem and byte stream files, yes. But that
would include quite a few other non-Unix operating systems,
including Mac OS 9, Prologue and probably everything else this
side of CP/M (DOS 1.x shall be deemed to be CP/M).
--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels so good.
Brian Inglis
DOS 2.x+ shall be deemed to be CP/M+!
Loic Domaigne
>
>
> It's VMS'ism !
Without all the security aspects, of course...
Loic.
Johnny
>
> $ telnet xahlee.org 80;
> Trying 208.186.130.4...
> Connected to xahlee.org.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> GET / HTTP/1.1
>
> HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:35:52 GMT
> Server: Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Xah probably couldn't find any LispM based servers. Can you blame him?
Andre Majorel
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:12:55 +0000 (UTC) in alt.folklore.computers,
> Andre Majorel <amaj...@teezer.fr> wrote:
>
>>On 2004-08-30, Antony Sequeira <usemyf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Windows (MS) is not 'Unixism'?
>>
>>If by unixism, you mean any operating system that has a
>>hierarchical filesystem and byte stream files, yes. But that
>>would include quite a few other non-Unix operating systems,
>>including Mac OS 9, Prologue and probably everything else this
>>side of CP/M (DOS 1.x shall be deemed to be CP/M).
>
> DOS 2.x+ shall be deemed to be CP/M+!
Wasn't it in version 2 that they added directories and
Unix-style file handles ?
John W. Kennedy
> On 2004-08-31, Brian Inglis <Brian....@SystematicSW.Invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:12:55 +0000 (UTC) in alt.folklore.computers,
>>Andre Majorel <amaj...@teezer.fr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 2004-08-30, Antony Sequeira <usemyf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>Windows (MS) is not 'Unixism'?
>>>
>>>If by unixism, you mean any operating system that has a
>>>hierarchical filesystem and byte stream files, yes. But that
>>>would include quite a few other non-Unix operating systems,
>>>including Mac OS 9, Prologue and probably everything else this
>>>side of CP/M (DOS 1.x shall be deemed to be CP/M).
>>
>>DOS 2.x+ shall be deemed to be CP/M+!
>
>
> Wasn't it in version 2 that they added directories and
> Unix-style file handles ?
Yes, and also a single-process pipe emulator. Ever since 2.0, MS has
been trying to turn MS-DOS (later, Windows) into a Unix clone.
--
John W. Kennedy
"...when you're trying to build a house of cards, the last thing you
should do is blow hard and wave your hands like a madman."
-- Rupert Goodwins
Ville Vainio
John> Yes, and also a single-process pipe emulator. Ever since
John> 2.0, MS has been trying to turn MS-DOS (later, Windows) into
John> a Unix clone.
With very little success. Notepad still only understands cr-lf line
breaks, and / as path separator still screws up most of their cmd line
programs (which think / is for command line options).
Microsoft probably thought avoiding compatibility is a good idea, and
have only lately started to have some regrets, visible as the release
& future integration of SFU. Migrating ppl from Unix probably *is*
easier when you are not doing your best to make interoperability as
painful as possible.
--
Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb
Charles Shannon Hendrix
On 2004-08-26, Markus Wankus <markus_wankusG...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>I think you're getting confused with the Blue Öyster Cult.
>>>Don't Fear the Reaper - great song.
>>
>>
>
> It was a great song, but it needed more cowbell...
Well, there is always Witchunt by Rush...
--
shannon "AT" widomaker.com -- ["Tara is grass, and behold how Troy lieth
low--And even the English, perchance their hour will come!"]
Craig A. Finseth
Ville Vainio <vi...@spammers.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "John" == John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> writes:
>
> John> Yes, and also a single-process pipe emulator. Ever since
> John> 2.0, MS has been trying to turn MS-DOS (later, Windows) into
> John> a Unix clone.
>
>With very little success. Notepad still only understands cr-lf line
>breaks, and / as path separator still screws up most of their cmd line
>programs (which think / is for command line options).
>
>Microsoft probably thought avoiding compatibility is a good idea, and
>have only lately started to have some regrets, visible as the release
Wrong. The / was chosen as the command line option separator because
whoever wrote MSDOS was looking to CP/M, who modelled their commands
after a PDP-11 operating system (RT-11?). Consider the "PIP" command.
When they went to MS/DOS 2.0 and needed path separators, they found
that "/" was already taken, so they used "\". But there was a hidden
way to tell the command interpreter that it could use "-" for options.
And in all systems starting with 2.0, the system calls have taken "/"
and "\" interchangably.
Craig, who wrote a lot of code for CP/M, MS-DOS 1* and Later....
CBFalconer
>> "John" == John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> writes:
>
>> Yes, and also a single-process pipe emulator. Ever since
>
> With very little success. Notepad still only understands cr-lf
> line breaks, and / as path separator still screws up most of their
> cmd line programs (which think / is for command line options).
>
> Microsoft probably thought avoiding compatibility is a good idea,
> and have only lately started to have some regrets, visible as the
> release & future integration of SFU. Migrating ppl from Unix
> probably *is* easier when you are not doing your best to make
> interoperability as painful as possible.
Dump Notepad and get Textpad. www.textpad.com. First class.
--
"Churchill and Bush can both be considered wartime leaders, just
as Secretariat and Mr Ed were both horses." - James Rhodes.
"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad
morals. We now know that it is bad economics" - FDR
Rich Teer
> Yes, and also a single-process pipe emulator. Ever since 2.0, MS has
> been trying to turn MS-DOS (later, Windows) into a Unix clone.
... And has failed miserably to do so.
--
Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, author of "Solaris Systems Programming",
published in August 2004.
President,
Rite Online Inc.
Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
Charles Shannon Hendrix
> I'd expect to get these complaints indeed from people who drove it,
> but I'd be puzzled if they'd continued to drive it every day.
Um... maybe it's paid for?
I use things daily that I hate... I can't afford to replace them.
Maybe if the people had no *plans* to replace the Explorer, or they
turned around and bought yet another one, I could see your point.
--
shannon "AT" widomaker.com -- [There is a limit to how stupid people really
are -- just as there's a limit to the amount of hydrogen in the Universe.
There's a lot, but there's a limit. -- Dave C. Barber on a.f.c. ]