* Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com>
| So what? I was looking forward to an answer, I keep wondering what all
| the excitement is over gray (Grey?) streams. Research is research, you
| go to a book or the Web or to experts live and in color.
So do your own research and publish it. Demanding is the privilege of
the paying customer, and refunding rather than complying is the privilege
of the responsible vendor.
| And so what if, in a different circumstance where they are supposed to
| write code, a cheater gets an answer and does not learn anything? I
| thought that was /their/ problem. "You're only cheating yourself.",
| right?
One general concept of the free exchange of information on the Net is
that people are equals in principle and that their differences are the
nothing more than accidents of time. The whole deal is to save people
time, just like science is supposed to let people avoid re-discovering
everything on their own, philosophy is supposed to let really smart
people sort out the really hard problems so average people can just use
the solutions, etc. The whole point with the ability of human beings
being able to learn from the experience of others is to save time.
When this is not longer true, when the sharing actually wastes time, some
people are causing damage to an important part of the fabric of the Net
and of the value of sharing experience in the first place. I mean, on
IRC, I recently had the immensely curious experience of helping a guy
through a problem, but he did not quite understand it. I had fetched my
good old Introduction to Algorithms by Cormen, et al, and worked through
some of the algorithm with them, then asked him if he had any algorithm
books. He had Introduction to Algorithms by Cormen, et al, right beside
him. So I told him, in no uncertain terms, where to find the answer. He
_still_ managed to ask me what it said. (Unlike some people here, he did
in fact understand that he had done something wrong, and apologized and
appreciated the help he had received, arguing by way of explanation that
it had been so much easier to ask me than to read the book.)
| Meanwhile c.l.l. comes off like a bunch of finger-wagging
| holier-than-thou school marms. I forget, did we want Lisp to be more
| popular or less popular?
Start funding people to further your goal, and you gain the right to
complain that your goal is not shared by those you have funded. If you
do not want to do this, what do you do to help? Why are you not simply
researching the question and answering the guy himself? All of us
learned this by study, but faced with people who refuse to study and
still demand help, you tell us that you could not learn it unless one of
us could help you. That means that you are no longer an equal,
accidentally ignorant by an accident of time -- you would be helpless
without our specific sacrifice of time for you. This is generally not
worth anyone's while, and many people get pissed off by whining losers.
| I have had hard technical questions completely ignored here, but presumed
| cheaters bring a deluge of wise guys either spanking the evil-doer or
| posting hilarious (not) obfuscated solutions. Seems like a lot of folk
| (not you, Barry) get their rocks off pissing on cheaters but get damn
| quiet when help is sought in good faith.
Why do you complain about it rather than do something about it?
Generally, though, students should go ask their teacher when they are
stuck. That way, the teacher can better adapt his lecturing/teaching to
the actual needs of students, rather than working with false positives.
It is not just the cheater who loses if this is widespread.
| Well, I gotta go google up on gra/ey streams....
You do that. Hint: Gray is a person's name, used adjectively.
///
--
In a fight against something, the fight has value, victory has none.
In a fight for something, the fight is a loss, victory merely relief.
Post with compassion: http://home.chello.no/~xyzzy/kitten.jpg