Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
From: Kaz Kylheku <k...@ashi.footprints.net>
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 19:40:26 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Sat, Aug 3 2002 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: Why I can't use Lisp.
In article <b295356a.0208011247.562f2...@posting.google.com>, thelifter wrote: You are implying that ``runs only on Unix'' and ``good compiler'' are > It's because there are no good compilers for free. > If you want a free Lisp system you have to choose between > CLISP(generates only byte-code) and CMUCL(runs only on Unix). opposites, which you are free to believe, but don't assume that everyone accepts it as truth. > So how I can't speek for all ``you guys'', but I don't expect anyone to do anything. I > are you guys expecting anyone to use it? couldn't care less if I'm the last Common Lisp programmer on the planet, as long as I have a way, in that case, to maintain the programming environment I need. > Other functional languages are better off. Take Ocaml for example, it Just one? What are the players in the Ocaml world? Who are the vendors? > comes with a native code compiler for free. Now count the vendors of Lisp systems. What does it mean for a language to be better off? Why does it matter? > I agree that Lisp is probably one of the best languages around if not But nobody would write the matrix code that way, only someone who > the best. But what does that help if you can't generate efficient code > with it? > Of course this won't matter if your application doesn't need speed. > A lot of people talk about the nice abstractions that Lisp enables, > http://www.ai.mit.edu/docs/articles//good-news/subsubsection3.2.2.4.html didn't know that Lisp has built-in multi-dimensional arrays. What part of the paragraph heading ``Totally Inapprpropriate Data Structures'' You can write stupid code in any language; if stupid code can also Consider that if you wrote matrix multiplication using linked lists The number one concern in programming is correctness and reliability. > What help are the higher level structures of Lisp if afterwards I have You don't have to hand-optimize everything, because it is very, very rare for > to hand-optimize everything to make efficient code? the time spent running a program to be equally distributed throughout that program. Usually, most of the time is spent in a few places, which are sometimes called ``hotspots''. If you don't know that, you have yet to advance to the rank of programming newbie. Optimizing hotspots doesn't call for the destruction of the higher level structure of your software. > Now the last practical question: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Inspite of all those points I want to use Lisp for a project of mine. > Speed will be crucial, and I want to generate native code for both > Windows and Linux. I don't have money to buy one of the expensive ^^^^^^^ > proprietary systems, so which compiler can I use if there is one at > all? Idiot, Windows is a proprietary system. If you write a program for Windows, you must use that proprietary system, and all the users of that program must use it as well. If you don't mind paying for and using a proprietary operating system, why I simply don't follow the chain of reasoning. You want someone to buy and license Windows, so that they could use it to Even the Linux kernel needed proprietary tools at the beginning. Some people do make free software for Windows, like Cygwin, but you have no There are no impediments against writing free, open source software in Common Note that a number of proprietary Lisp vendors allow you to use their For example, one vendor's system has the limitation that you cannot make a Thus if you are really short on cash, you can delay the purchase until you have > Thanks for any help... Lisp is a language that works nicely, for non-whining, non-loser, non-idiots > -------------------------------- who work for a living. You know, there was a day when CLISP and CMUCL didn't exist; Since these people took action, the freedom to determine their implementation You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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