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Subject: Re: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1
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From: Marco Antoniotti <marc...@cs.nyu.edu>
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Date: 21 Sep 2002 16:32:19 -0400
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Apologies for the full quote.

ilias <at_n...@pontos.net> writes:

> Marco Antoniotti wrote:
> > ilias <at_n...@pontos.net> writes:
> >
> >>Marco Antoniotti wrote:
> >>
> >>>ilias <at_n...@pontos.net> writes:
> >>>
> >>>>larry wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>ilias,
> >>>>>Would you be willing to take the Turing test to determine if
> >>>>>you're a human?
> >>>>
> >>>>Explain me with easy terminology (i'm undereducated) what a Turing
> >>>>test is.
> >>>
> >>>Something you have been trying very hard to pass. :)
> >>>The Turing Test is a way of dettermine if a "machine" has achieved
> >>>"intelligence".  Or, in a more limited way, it is a test to see
> >>>whether the response of a machine and the response of a human are
> >>>indistiguishable by a group of witnesses.
> 
> judge: group of witnesses.

Note that I am just citing from memory.  I suppose that on the net
there is more information available.

> 
> >>>A simple Google search will fill in the details.
> >>>Since it has been suggested up here that you are actually an A.I.,
> >>>the
> >>>fact that you show ignorance of the Turing Test could be seen as a
> >>>ruse by your programmer(s) to fool the denizens of C.L.L. into
> >>>thinking that you are actually human.
> >>
> >>sounds like 'paranoia'.
> > Do you mean that you are paranoic or that I am paranoic.
> 
> "could be seen" => paranoia.

I am sorry, I do not understand this comment.

> 
> > Are we like Eliza and Parry?
> 
> irrlevant.

True.  But a little bit of humor has never hurt anybody. (Has it?)

> 
> >>>>Then i can answer you.
> >>>
> >>>That *is* a good answer.  Either you do have a sense of irony
> >>>(something people doubted, looking at the responses you get) or your
> >>>programmer(s) did program some of it into you. :)
> >>
> >>OK, i've understood.
> > What?
> 
>  >>>>Explain me with easy terminology (i'm undereducated) what a Turing
>  >>>>test is.
> 
> Turing Test.
> 
> >>But i remember the name Turing in context of programing-languages.
> > Do a search on Google for Alan Turing (1912-1954).
> 
> He dies young.
> 
> >>Is Lisp Turing-Complete?
> > Yes.
> >
> >>What is 'Turing-Complete'?
> > Essentially, a programming language L is Turing Complete if there
> > exists an algorithm transforming a program in L into the code for a
> > Turing machine.
> 
> what is a 'Turing machine'?

A good reference id "J. E. Hopcroft and J. D. Ullman, Introduction to
Automata Theory, Languages and Computation, Addison-Wesley, 1979".

It is just a book, but some books are good. 

> 
> >>I cannot extract a meaning, based on the information 'Turing-Test' you
> >>just gave me.
> > I can only point the direction.  Books and Google are ther for this
> 
> you don't pass my 'Turing Test'.

Then you maintain that I am a machine.  How do you purport to go ahead
and prove to others up here that I am a machine?

> > reason.  Everybody has time constraints which are best spent doing
> > real work instead of quibbling on minutiae of the Common Lisp
> > specification.
> 
> remark irrelevant.

It depends.  It may be irrelevant for you.  But suppose it wasn't?
What would you do differently if you found the remark relevant?

> > My version of the Turing test would ask to discriminate between
> > relevant and irrelevant issue in the line of questions and answers.
> > And note that I would be the judge. :)
> 
> thus the quality of your test depends on the quality of your judge.

Well, I trust my judgement, hence my test is going to be pretty good.

> sounds not good.

That is your problem.  Remember: I am the judge, not you.

> 
> > Cheers
> 
> Turing Test: comparing A.I. against H.I. (Human Intelligence), judged
> by human intelligence.
> 
> I think i don't like the 'Turing-Test'.
>

Why don't you like it?  In some ways it is a playful game put forth by
one of the great minds of our century to address a deep question.

Cheers

-- 
Marco Antoniotti ========================================================
NYU Courant Bioinformatics Group        tel. +1 - 212 - 998 3488
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