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Franz Kafka  
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 More options May 14 2003, 7:44 pm
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.lisp, comp.lang.java.programmer
From: "Franz Kafka" <Symbolics _ XL1201 _ Sebek _ Budo _ Kafka @ hotmail . com>
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 23:44:44 GMT
Local: Wed, May 14 2003 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: village idiot

"scav50" <sca...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:e0a34273.0305141517.367c8800@posting.google.com...
> Fred Gilham <gil...@snapdragon.csl.sri.com> wrote in message

<news:u7k7ctpd75.fsf@snapdragon.csl.sri.com>...
> > Mark Meyer <mme...@raytheon.com> writes:

> another lisp myth is that new languages can be written in it using
> macros. what a nutty notion! lisp macros are nothing but c macros,
> only slower, with brackets outside, and the whole lisp system
> available for preprocessor abuse at compile time! again, if lisp was
> the ultimate programmable programming language, why does it suck >so bad

in its original "deprogrammed" state?  See what i wrote about
> "defmacro" earlier.

Lisp macro's are used to write worms ;) Google for 'Lisp Worm'
not languages. (Lisp is good for writing compilers.)
Your moron iff is a real moron who does not know Lisp will not
be able to write a compiler, or interpeter (four lines of code)
in Lisp.

(defun lisp-interpeter ()
    (loop
            (print "Lisp> ") ;; prints Lisp>
            (print (eval (read))) ;; intepets Lisp
   )
) ;; not the best func. just shows how lisp is used. :)

Let him use Lisp--if he is requesting it he should be using it. I'd love it
if I could use Lisp. Forget the A.I. part--it handles pointer & memory
management. Has a garbage collector, does not have strict typing.
It allows someone who knows how to use it to write code quickly--
if your a moron it won't be good code. IMHO, management should require
developers use an ANSI, IEEE, ISO language but not force them to use
C/C++/Awk/Perl/Lisp/Scheme/Forth but let them use
the lang. that they know. -- they could get a lot more work done, and
be happy about their lang. choice.

I like Lisp because I can code on the fly, without designing my program--I
can also rewrite a running program.

+ I don't get along /w pointers, but I get along with binding issues,
lexical issues--I never dumped a core because of a Lisp problem.

But, than again I know how to use the lang.

I have read David T's 'Symbolic Computation: A Gentile Guide To Common
Lisp.' Avail. for free on-line. IMHO, one of the best books to teach a newbe
Lisp even if he never programmed before.

&

Peter Novig's 'Principals of Artificial Intelligence Programming.'

both excellent books.

If your moron read's David T's book he should understand how to use Common
Lisp--even if he never programmed before.

Peter Novig's book is an excellent overview of using Lisp for A.I.,
+ how to increase the effenceny of Lisp.

all of the other resources tend to confuse rather than enlighten.

But, I am still waiting for a good Lisp that can generate Windows EXE files,
and interface /w C/C++/Java Librarys.

IMHHTGO, the dynamic typing of vars. in Lisp makes it easier to write code
because you don't have to declear vars. in Lisp functions unless you want
to.

& why should I do what I can have my language do. :)
I want to hack, not design.

P.S.

BTW, you said you were a Lisp programmer--what turned you off to Lisp? or
are you just venting because the moron does not know Lisp? David T's book
will help him learn--iff it is possible.

(defun fact (x)
     (if   (zerop x)   ;; is x = 0
           1
           (* x (fact (- x 1))))) ;; x * fact(x-1)

int fact(int x) {
    if (x == 0) {
       return 1;
   }
    else {
       return x * fact(x-1);
   }

}

Lisp's fact an handle larger numbers, and returns huge numbers /w thousands
of digits--C/C++/Java do not.

I can do (fact 1000) in my Lisp
and get a large many thousand digit number returned.

I can do fact(1000); in my C++/Java and
get a core dump returned. ;)

Lisp is not only used for A.I.
C++/Java can be used for NuralNetworks & Genetic Alogrthms,
Lisp/Prolog is used for Expert Systems.


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