Newsgroups: comp.lang.functional, comp.lang.scheme, comp.lang.lisp
From: Rainer Joswig <jos...@lisp.de>
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:46:36 +0100
Local: Sun, Dec 3 2006 10:46 am
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Lisp Without Parentheses Project (Lispin) Site Open
Am 03.12.2006 15:56 Uhr schrieb "Gabriel Dos Reis" unter
<g...@integrable-solutions.net> in m38xhp81v2....@zeus.integrable-solutions.net: > Joachim Durchholz <j...@durchholz.org> writes: Lisp has a specific world view which makes it less compatible with the > [...] > | Actually lack of static typing and purity guarantees are what deter me most. > I fully agree. Having been working recently on the 30 years old Axiom > | The third problem is that Lisp is a separate world, tool-wise. > Or many Lispers would like to make it so. But, I don't see the real current outside world. Let me list a few. * Lisp usually needs garbage collection. There are almost no standards * Lisp programs often have a high cons-rate. Thus Lisp usually needs * Lisp has the idea of high dynamisn in the runtime. You can redefine * Lisp in its standard data types does not care that much about data layout. * Lisp has typed objects with identity. Objects carry around their * Lisp prefers heap consistency. Usual operations should not * In the presence of large virtual memory systems, you immediately * Lisp has a different surface syntax. * Support for Functional Programming (Closures, ...) and Object-oriented * CLOS supports meta-level programming, multi-dispatch, * No current OS uses Lisp's infrastructure as a model * There is little culture of static checks on the code level There is more to mention, but this should be sufficient to list. The consequences are: * most OS-level development tools cannot easily or usefully applied * the Lisp ideas about data layout are completely incompatible with OS-level * if Lisp wants to talk to the OS, it needs to use the OS datastructures Lisp is not on its own with these 'problems'. Smalltalk, Prolog, Java, ... The combination of these things automatically makes Lisp a very In the 'Lisp World' one should follow a few rules to be successful * the best chance to survive have extensions that follow the spirit * See the basic Lisp as some kind of abstract machine and build on top. * when in doubt design software to be dynamic (changeable at any time). * when in doubt design software to be introspective * when in doubt design software to be reflective These rules are very different from what you see in many other software It is true that this different nature makes Lisp automatically > | Lisp > Indeed. > | (I think parentheses are just the most visible aspect of this.) > In fact, I'm not bothered much by the parenthesis, though I > [...] > | However, current FPLs have been starting incursions on that territory, > I can't find a reliable source on the invention of parser combinators > -- Gaby You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
| ||||||||||||||