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Wade Humeniuk  
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 More options May 15 2003, 6:58 pm
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++, comp.lang.lisp, comp.lang.java.programmer
From: "Wade Humeniuk" <w...@nospam.nowhere>
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 22:58:56 GMT
Local: Thurs, May 15 2003 6:58 pm
Subject: Re: village idiot
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"Terje Slettebų" <terj...@chello.no>
wrote in message news:9e3a34f7.0305151227.16b069a@posting.google.com...

> I agree. Powerful, expressive languages, such as C++, tend to take a
> long time to learn to use well. In exchange, you get an expressive
> language.

> Interstingly, this, the complexity of a language, has been used as an
> argument against C++, for Lisp. I guess some people like to have it
> both ways, using the same argument both for and against something.

I use Common Lisp because I like it and I am many times more
productive with it.  Why that is is an exercise left up the reader.

> Difficultness is not something to aspire, in itself. If something is
> easy to do in a language, then surely that's a good thing? If not, the
> oh so popular sort-function implemented in a few lines of Lisp, should
> then show that as it's easy to do, Lisp isn't a good language, no? Or
> what did you really mean with the comment above?

Difficult things are also things not to shy away from. (or go over the
edge and rant about on multiple newsgroups).

Dealing with people can be very difficult.  Dealing with bosses can be
very difficult.  Scav50 snapped in public when he should just keep his
personal problems to himself.  Even worse he has snapped anonymously,
a faceless name from behind some Yahoo account.

Things like the "Semantic Web", "Intelligent Content", "Intelligent
Agents" are very difficult.  The whole problem, its conceptual
framework behind it, its application and its translation into software
(and practical use).  Scav50 can just go back and stay within his
comfort zone.  Lisp was developed by working on these very difficult
problems.

I am not talking about programming languages.  I no longer debate or
second guess my opinion on the matter.  I have made up my mind.

> You may have confused ease of learning, with ease of use. Both C++ and
> Lisp may take a while to learn, but in exchange, you may get something
> that's easy to use. That's a good thing, not something to criticise a
> language for. It just shows that you've raised the level of
> abstraction in the language, so you don't have to hand-code
> everything, but can instead build abstractions on abstractions.
> Surely, this should not be unfamiliar to a Lisp-programmer (higher
> order functions, etc.).

Becoming a good programmer takes a long time.  I am not critizing
languages, I am critizing the original poster for a whining about
things being hard and that his perception is that his colleagues and
bosses are "village idiots".

Wade


 
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