Lisp also has a stutter?
Kenny
What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great they
named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value was special.
:)
kt
--
$$$$$: http://www.theoryyalgebra.com/
Cells: http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/
BSlog: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/
Pascal J. Bourguignon
> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> was special.
Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language. It's natural it
should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
parameter.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__
Dan Weinreb
I once suggested a feature for the Lisp machine that would have a
global variable that would hold the "Default default defaults".
Marvin Minsky overhead me and said he thought that would be a great
name for an academic paper. So far I know he never wrote a paper
named that, though.
-- Dan
Kenny
And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
Pascal J. Bourguignon
> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>> Kenny <kent...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>>>
>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
>>> was special.
>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language. It's natural it
>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
>> parameter.
>>
>
> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
default type, a default version, etc. That's a lot of defaults for a
default.
--
__Pascal Bourguignon__
Thomas F. Burdick
wrote:
>
> >>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> >>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> >>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> >>> was special.
> >> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language. It's natural it
> >> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
> >> parameter.
>
> > And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>
> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
> default type, a default version, etc. That's a lot of defaults for a
> default.
I see no reason why it couldn't be called *pathname-defaults*, so I'm
with Kenny, Lisp has a stutter.
Pascal Costanza
MERGE-PATHNAMES accepts an optional parameter that can be used to
specify pathname defaults. *default-pathname-defaults* is the default
value for that parameter if it doesn't receive any actual argument.
Do you guys also worry about important problems?
Pascal
--
My website: http://p-cos.net
Common Lisp Document Repository: http://cdr.eurolisp.org
Closer to MOP & ContextL: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/
Paul Tarvydas
> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
A: It's dynamically bound, so, by default, it should be pluralized.
Duane Rettig
> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> was special.
>
> :)
Not only that, but how is it grouped? Is it default-pathname defaults
or default pathname-defaults? Where are lisp's parentheses when we
need them?
--
Duane Rettig du...@franz.com Franz Inc. http://www.franz.com/
555 12th St., Suite 1450 http://www.555citycenter.com/
Oakland, Ca. 94607 Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182
Kenny
Imagine! All in one pathname!
(Nice try, tho.)
Kenny
You mean nth-symbol-value works on specials?
Cool!
Kenny
btw, if you didnt get my email once you might not get it twice. I am
responding, it aint bouncing -- check your junk folder? What I am saying is:
exe? should be there
dxls? ask franz, that's how they deliver runtimes, including their own
win2k? I hear from others it does not work there
igtdh,kt
Kenny
> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>> Kenny <kent...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
>>>> Kenny <kent...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>>>>>
>>>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
>>>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
>>>>> was special.
>>>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language. It's natural it
>>>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
>>>> parameter.
>>>>
>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>>
>> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
>> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
>> default type, a default version, etc. That's a lot of defaults for a
>> default.
>>
>
> Imagine! All in one pathname!
>
But it is there to /provide/ defaults and not to serve as a standalone
pathname. Hmmmm....got it:
*pathname-defaults-pathname*
Whew, I feel better.
pls....@gmail.com
> win2k? I hear from others it does not work there
All of *real-world-application-applications-developer-developers*
don't need to care about W2K, because we all W2Ks still hanging around
will never spend any cent/time/googling/hacking in any future MS
attempt of OS (and so you've lost us already, much previous the time
you started thinking of your app...
-PM
Thomas F. Burdick
> Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> > On Aug 13, 3:39 pm, p...@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
> > wrote:
> >> Kenny <kentil...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>> Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote:
> >>>> Kenny <kentil...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>> *default-pathname-defaults*?????
> >>>>> What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> >>>>> they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> >>>>> was special.
> >>>> Don't forget lisp is a meta-programming language. It's natural it
> >>>> should have defaults for defaults, including the pathname default
> >>>> parameter.
> >>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
> >> The default pathname contains defaults for the various fields of a
> >> pathname: a default directory, a default host, a default file name, a
> >> default type, a default version, etc. That's a lot of defaults for a
> >> default.
>
> > I see no reason why it couldn't be called *pathname-defaults*, so I'm
> > with Kenny, Lisp has a stutter.
>
> MERGE-PATHNAMES accepts an optional parameter that can be used to
> specify pathname defaults. *default-pathname-defaults* is the default
> value for that parameter if it doesn't receive any actual argument.
Thank you captain obvious? I still don't see why it couldn't be called
*pathname-defaults*. Anywhere that you can give an explicit default
will of course override the special variable. It's like if *readtable*
were called *default-readtable*.
> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?
Marco Antoniotti
> Kenny <kentil...@gmail.com> writes:
> > *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> > What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> > they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> > was special.
>
> > :)
>
> Not only that, but how is it grouped? Is it default-pathname defaults
> or default pathname-defaults? Where are lisp's parentheses when we
> need them?
... and now for the serious bit/bait.
What is the default device for a pathname representing a name on a
windows file system? (I am devious. I know!)
Cheers
--
Marco
Kenny
Omigod! It's true?! There /are/ parallel universes?!!!!
And they all share the same Usenet?
Too cool.
Kenny
Or, what are the /other/ pathname defaults that must be distinguished
from the default pathname defaults?
> Anywhere that you can give an explicit default
> will of course override the special variable. It's like if *readtable*
> were called *default-readtable*.
>
>> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
>
> Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?
Or, is he allowed to complain about a deliberately silly thread and
contribute to it seriously at the same time? I'd like to see a yellow
card here...
No, the real answer is that Lisp is so good that things like this stand
out and I suspected there might be either something to learn or some fun
history to be had from kmp.
Pascal Costanza
Didn't seem obvious at first in this thread, did it?
> I still don't see why it couldn't be called
> *pathname-defaults*. Anywhere that you can give an explicit default
> will of course override the special variable. It's like if *readtable*
> were called *default-readtable*.
There is some talk about the standard readtable in the HyperSpec, but it
is not stored in a special variable. Otherwise it would probably be
called standard-readtable.
There are also entities like standard-class, standard-object, etc.,
where you could also argue that it's redundant to stress that they are
"standard," so this kind of prefixing names with such adjectives is not
_that_ unusual.
>> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
>
> Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?
Not recently.
pls....@gmail.com
> Omigod! It's true?! There /are/ parallel universes?!!!!
>
> And they all share the same Usenet?
>
> Too cool.
Nobody ever thinks about the *time-machine-time* involved in this
*super-high-tech-process*.
Even our time-machines waste some actual cycles in the *time-machine-
machines*...
But, since they are all done in Lisp (yes, CL), the *lost-in-time-
constant-variable* is not easily predictable, sorry...
-PM
Thomas F. Burdick
> Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
> > On Aug 13, 4:08 pm, Pascal Costanza <p...@p-cos.net> wrote:
>
> >> Do you guys also worry about important problems?
>
> > Of course not. Do you also ask non-crazy questions?
>
> Or, is he allowed to complain about a deliberately silly thread and
> contribute to it seriously at the same time? I'd like to see a yellow
> card here...
Do those work? I thought the only ones that ever did anything were the
ones that Kent gives himself. On the second one, he's out.
> No, the real answer is that Lisp is so good that things like this stand
> out and I suspected there might be either something to learn or some fun
> history to be had from kmp.
Yeah, I'm still hoping for an old-timer to explain the history behind
this particular name (maybe there were a variety of pathname defaults
on the LispM?). It could just be redundantly redundant, though.
Pascal Costanza
Google is your friend.
From the Lisp Machine Manual:
"*default-pathname-defaults*
This is the default defaults alist; if the pathname primitives that need
a set of defaults are not give one, they use this one. Most programs,
however, should have their own defaults rather than using these."
So: (a) originally it was an alist - that explains the plural; (b) every
program should have its own defaults, so this is really just the default
of the defaults - this stresses the exceptional case.
This may not be so important anymore nowadays where the use of
Lisp-based operating systems is rare.
Rainer Joswig
<e92ad4ca-3290-4c88...@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
There is a function fs:default-pathname .
It returns a default pathname based on some args.
*default-pathname-defaults* is a list of
defaults (per host and a default default) used by above function.
So *default-pathname-defaults* is a defaults alist
for the function default-pathname.
Kenny
Reminds me of William Safire's nickname for the imagined team sending in
fodder for his NY Times "On Language" column: "The Squad Squad".
xah...@gmail.com
> Kenny <kentil...@gmail.com> writes:
> > *default-pathname-defaults*?????
>
> > What is that, like New York, New York? A special variable so great
> > they named it twice? Making it a plural when it only holds one value
> > was special.
>
> > :)
>
> Not only that, but how is it grouped? Is it default-pathname defaults
> or default pathname-defaults? Where are lisp's parentheses when we
> need them?
besides the grouping, there's also the issue of ordinal of order. For
example, is there then default default default default?
for another example, there's lisp macros. Then is there macro of
macros or 2nd order macros?
For example, there's first order logic. Then there's 2nd order logic,
or generally just called higher order logic.
being a amature logician... i haven't read much about what happens
with 2nd or 3rd or higher order of logic... how they fit into the
whole subject of logic, to what extent they are useful within logic,
etc.
i must thank Kenny for being a potshot troll to bring us things to
converse in this lonely club.
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/
☄
Rob Warnock
+---------------
| Thomas F. Burdick wrote:
| > I still don't see why it couldn't be called
| > *pathname-defaults*. Anywhere that you can give an explicit default
| > will of course override the special variable. It's like if *readtable*
| > were called *default-readtable*.
|
| There is some talk about the standard readtable in the HyperSpec, but it
| is not stored in a special variable. Otherwise it would probably be
| called standard-readtable.
That's because it's not stored in a variable, but in a function call!! ;-}
Function COPY-READTABLE
...
(copy-readtable nil) ==>
...[fresh fresh readtable with] standard Common Lisp syntax, even
if the initial readtable has been clobbered (assuming it is not
so badly clobbered that you cannot type in the above expression).
-Rob
-----
Rob Warnock <rp...@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue <URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403 (650)572-2607
Paul Tarvydas
> Paul Tarvydas wrote:
>> Kenny wrote:
>>
>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>>
>> A: It's dynamically bound, so, by default, it should be pluralized.
>
> You mean nth-symbol-value works on specials?
Only in the fourth dimension (time) and only when n=1.
Kenny
Speaking of 1, can you believe PROG1 is off by one?! It returns the
zeroth form!!! I say we rotate everyone down one, start where we should
start, PROG0. What is not clear is whether PROGN becomes PROGN-1.
Paul Tarvydas
> Paul Tarvydas wrote:
>> Kenny wrote:
>>
>>> Paul Tarvydas wrote:
>>>> Kenny wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And the plural? Where is the plural?!!!
>>>> A: It's dynamically bound, so, by default, it should be pluralized.
>>> You mean nth-symbol-value works on specials?
>>
>> Only in the fourth dimension (time) and only when n=1.
>>
>
> Speaking of 1, can you believe PROG1 is off by one?! It returns the
> zeroth form!!! I say we rotate everyone down one, start where we should
> start, PROG0. What is not clear is whether PROGN becomes PROGN-1.
Well, from another perspective, we might conclude that CL, like APL, has an
adjustable index origin, but the designers neglected to expose it as an
operator and didn't document which origin was being used at syntax-design
time...