> >>>>>It's not Xanalys' fault that some countries are run to the > >>>>>ground by murderers and thieves, and fail to produce anything > >>>>>that the rest of the world wants, and consequently have a > >>>>>worthless currency.
> No, they are just based in such a country.
Haven't you looked at the UK since the 1970s? They have since greatly improved :-)
> >>>>Oh...my...god.
> >>>What are you complaining about? What Kaz said is a triviality, > >>>not controversial at all (at least among knowledgable people).
> >>I take it you're talking about people who are knowledgable about > >>trolling techniques.
> Kaz and Nils are just trying to self-fulfill the Yabos of Lisp IRC > opinion of c.l.l. They do not seem to understand that they are the > best Lispniks acting the worst: calling established Lispniks liars, > flaming newbies, flinging schoolyard insults at established > Lispniks, and now trying to start a never-ending flamewar on > geopolitics.
*sigh* Could everybody /please/ calm the hell down already? The OP said he couldn't buy a copy of LispWorks because the purchasing power of his currency was too low. The reason for low purchasing power of a currency is low demand for this country's goods, low productivity, or inflation, usually all three of them. Low productivity does not mean that the people are lazy, it only means there has not been enough capital accumulated and invested to make them more productive. And practically always there is only one reason for this: Some evil government, sometimes the current one, sometimes an older one, sometimes even one from another country, has obstructed business and trade, destroyed capital by pointless wars, usually plundering the country and transferring whatever capital was left to Swiss bank accounts.
This is indeed not the fault of Xanalys, nor Kaz', nor mine, nor the OP's. That's all Kaz was saying.
The solution should be obvious, too: Just like you don't get a Mercedes for 10% of the price down there, you won't get a cheaper LispWorks, either. But if you need it for business, you can go to a bank and borrow the money. That's what banks are for.
Now what the hell is so unusual or upsetting about this?
Regards, -- Nils Gösche "Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."
>>>>>>>It's not Xanalys' fault that some countries are run to the >>>>>>>ground by murderers and thieves, and fail to produce anything >>>>>>>that the rest of the world wants, and consequently have a >>>>>>>worthless currency.
>>No, they are just based in such a country.
> Haven't you looked at the UK since the 1970s? They have since greatly > improved :-)
Oh, sorry, not sure what made me think Xanalys was in Massachusetts. Maybe they have an office there?
>>>>>What are you complaining about? What Kaz said is a triviality, >>>>>not controversial at all (at least among knowledgable people).
>>>>I take it you're talking about people who are knowledgable about >>>>trolling techniques.
>>Kaz and Nils are just trying to self-fulfill the Yabos of Lisp IRC >>opinion of c.l.l. They do not seem to understand that they are the >>best Lispniks acting the worst: calling established Lispniks liars, >>flaming newbies, flinging schoolyard insults at established >>Lispniks, and now trying to start a never-ending flamewar on >>geopolitics.
> *sigh* Could everybody /please/ calm the hell down already? The OP > said he couldn't buy a copy of LispWorks because the purchasing power > of his currency was too low. The reason for low purchasing power of a > currency is low...
...is no excuse for a respect Lispnik to disparage all countries with low per capita income as deserving their fates because they do not overthrow their leadership.
The OP was wrong to call Xanalys names, and could have been flamed for it with something other than gasoline. Kaz is not like that, but folks on Lisp IRC have lost all respect for c.l.l. so they come here and act badly, thinking it is OK because they think it is a cesspool anyway.
Me, I read c.l.l. occasionally, and I can tell you, the only Lispniks acting badly on c.l.l. are the Yabos of Lisp IRC.
kenny
but The fact that a deliberat demand for this country's goods, low productivity, or
> inflation, usually all three of them. Low productivity does not mean > that the people are lazy, it only means there has not been enough > capital accumulated and invested to make them more productive. And > practically always there is only one reason for this: Some evil > government, sometimes the current one, sometimes an older one, > sometimes even one from another country, has obstructed business and > trade, destroyed capital by pointless wars, usually plundering the > country and transferring whatever capital was left to Swiss bank > accounts.
> This is indeed not the fault of Xanalys, nor Kaz', nor mine, nor the > OP's. That's all Kaz was saying.
Nonsense. Spare me the macroeconomics and tell it to the judge:
"Fighting words doctrine. The First Amendment doctrine that holds that certain utterances are not constitutionally protected as free speech if they are inherently likely to provoke a violent response from the audience. N.A.A.C.P. v. Clairborne Hardware Co., Miss., 458 U.S. 886, 102 S.Ct. 3409, 73 L.Ed.2d 1215 (1982). Words which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace, having direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the persons to whom, individually, remark is addressed. The test is what persons of common intelligence would understand to be words likely to cause an average addressee to fight. City of Seattle v. Camby, 104 Wash.2d 49, 701 P.2d 499, 500.
"The "freedom of speech" protected by the Constitution is not absolute at all times and under all circumstances and there are well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which does not raise any constitutional problem, including the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous, and the insulting or "fighting words" which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568, 62 S.Ct. 766, 86 L.Ed. 1031.
"SOURCE: Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition "
> Now what the hell is so unusual or upsetting about this?
Trolling by a respected Lispnik? It sucks.
If I went on IRC and mistakenly called Dan Barlow a liar for saying he had fixed Cliki indexes, one of the moderators would snuff me, right? If a newbie asked on Lisp IRC how to use Vi with Lisp and I flamed him for not accepting advice to use Emacs, you'd snuff me, right? If I got on Lisp IRC and called Rahul a douchebag, how long would I last?
You guys come here and act worse than you would otherwise just because for some reason you have all decided cll is, what? landfill?, and this ironically leads you to come here and act worse than anyone other than a deliberate troll.
the sad thing is that unless someone is aware that you several fine young Lispniks are effectively acting in concert, they will agree cll is a dump; you guys /are/ turning c.l.l. into a cesspool, something no non-Lispnik troll could ever do.
Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes: > Nils Gösche wrote:
> > Now what the hell is so unusual or upsetting about this?
> Trolling by a respected Lispnik? It sucks.
Thanks for the explanation, Kenny. It just occurred to me that during all those years, I might have misunderstood the reasoning behind Godwin's Law, for instance. Now I understand that you are not supposed to mention Hitler so Germans like me are not offended if people speak in disparaging and unfeeling terms about one of our former governments. Who woulda thunk? ;-)
Regards, -- Nils Gösche "Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."
Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes: > Me, I read c.l.l. occasionally, and I can tell you, the only Lispniks > acting badly on c.l.l. are the Yabos of Lisp IRC.
San someone please explain what's meant by "Yabo" here? I was going to put it in my .signature, but perhaps it's obscene.
Google suggests a cookware store, a Japanese word meaning "unsophisticated", or a furniture outlet. Furniture is borderline obscene, I suppose, but the others seem relatively harmless.
-dan
-- "please make sure that the person is your friend before you confirm"
Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes: > the sad thing is that unless someone is aware that you several fine > young Lispniks are effectively acting in concert, they will agree cll > is a dump; you guys /are/ turning c.l.l. into a cesspool, something > no non-Lispnik troll could ever do.
I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point.
Oh-oh. Another political thread. You guys should subscribe to talk.politics.misc so that whenever the urge strikes, you can just post there.
Or, as the waiter at the posh restaraunt said, when he saw a man suddenly leap up and try to strangle his wife, "Sir! There's a *place* for that!"
-- Fred Gilham gil...@csl.sri.com A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. --- Fred Hoyle
Daniel Barlow wrote: > Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes:
>>Me, I read c.l.l. occasionally, and I can tell you, the only Lispniks >>acting badly on c.l.l. are the Yabos of Lisp IRC.
> San someone please explain what's meant by "Yabo" here?
I had no idea, actually, just a sense that it would be applied affectionately to a misbehaving group of colleagues or subordinates. I had been meaning to check the spelling, and (bless Google) here it is:
"yob / yobbo noun A rowdy, aggressive, or violent young man. [Boy spelled backward]"
Not bad, but not exactly the note I was looking to strike, so you can go ahead and have the Yabos jerseys printed up, I'm sticking with the misspelling. Feel free to think of it as "Bay spelled backward".
Now it's time to strap on the five-wheelers and see if I can shed 30seconds off my season best, or at least a few ounces of fat, but before I go: my mailbox has been filled with hundreds of letters of criticism saying I should be talking about Cello and not the Yabos. Rainer is just beside himself. So....
As for Cello, bad news and good news. The good news is that the bad news may not be so bad after all.
Background: I am doing something seriously wrong with display lists, as manifested by all sorts of bad behavior including dead slow performance (2-3fps on some demos) which gets cured by discarding all play lists at some point. Exactly what I am doing wrong I do not know, but I will get the monkeys on it later. My guess is that I am making some lists "too soon", and I just have to find out what I mean by "too soon".
Good news: I previously reported frame rates of 25-35. Now we're looking at 45-55. This happens if I do the curative resize on the Light Panel (didn't know it needed curing because it was so fast) and maybe because I found a couple of leftover debug tweaks unGCed and GCed those. And now the spinning shape /really/ sets the variation, and the beauty of display lists is that I can decompose the spinning scene into three components (the shape vertices, the /orientation/ of the shape, and the eye-candy background) and just re-execute the orientation to make the shape spin. So today I will do that just to get the fastest rates possible. Not to embarrass Rahul any further, but because the bad news is...
...he may have been right! I might have a screaming fast graphics card!! Another XP/AllegorCL 6.2 user reported frame rates of only 10fps (vs my 30). Still waiting on more deets (card specs, system clock, which demo), but along the way I ended up doing a semi-port to WindowsNT/AllegroCL and a 1.5ghz system with a Matrox dual-head card (business, not gamer, but hardware accel) was like sub-five, IIRC. So I want to see Cello on my set-up up around warp one or two so folks with less studly platforms can have fun, too.
Nils Gösche wrote: > Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes:
>>Nils Gösche wrote:
>>>Now what the hell is so unusual or upsetting about this?
>>Trolling by a respected Lispnik? It sucks.
> Thanks for the explanation, Kenny. It just occurred to me that during > all those years, I might have misunderstood the reasoning behind > Godwin's Law, for instance. Now I understand that you are not > supposed to mention Hitler so Germans like me are not offended if > people speak in disparaging and unfeeling terms about one of our > former governments. Who woulda thunk? ;-)
Your logic or intellectual honesty needs work. It is fine to disparage cll, and it is fine to troll cll, but doing both is cheating. Pay attention, will you? I have made that point twice now. Well, thrice.
> >>>Now what the hell is so unusual or upsetting about this?
> >>Trolling by a respected Lispnik? It sucks. > > Thanks for the explanation, Kenny. It just occurred to me that > > during all those years, I might have misunderstood the reasoning > > behind Godwin's Law, for instance. Now I understand that you are > > not supposed to mention Hitler so Germans like me are not offended > > if people speak in disparaging and unfeeling terms about one of > > our former governments. Who woulda thunk? ;-) > Your logic or intellectual honesty needs work.
Calm down: It's a /joke/! Hence the /smiley/! What I was trying to tell you with this joke is that people have no reason to be offended just because somebody doesn't like one of their former governments, just as I would not be offended if you dared to express anything but love and affection towards our former "Führer" (There! I've just been joking again! Please don't kill me!). So, I am not convinced by your "fighting words" argument because I can't see any "fighting words".
But even if you choose to disagree with me on this point, which is of course your God-given right, please consider that people also tend to disagree about what constitutes "fighting words" and what doesn't, people from different cultures and countries even more so. Are you really so sure that /you/ have never offended /me/ (or Kaz) with anything you said? Do you think it would matter a lot? Well, I don't. People come here to exchange ideas. If X happens to be offended by an opinion Y expressed, the best X can do is to strip Y's message from anything that looks like "fighting words" to him and look at what Y's actually been saying, think about it, and then respond.
Incidentally, and remarkably, the OP did exactly that. It was /you/ and some other people in this thread, not the OP, who have been making a major fuzz about all this for reasons unknown to me. What's the matter? What are you afraid of? Are you afraid people are going to have fistfights over this? I think the niveau in here is a bit higher, and besides: How exactly can you have a fistfight over the internet? Now to your other point:
> It is fine to disparage cll, and it is fine to troll cll, but doing > both is cheating. Pay attention, will you? I have made that point > twice now. Well, thrice.
You keep repeating this, but Kaz or I are not the ones disparaging cll on #lisp, so I think this is utterly irrelevant.
Regards, -- Nils Gösche "Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."
> > the sad thing is that unless someone is aware that you several fine > > young Lispniks are effectively acting in concert, they will agree cll > > is a dump; you guys /are/ turning c.l.l. into a cesspool, something > > no non-Lispnik troll could ever do.
> I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point.
Dave Touretzky is a psychiatric troll. The porn and bomb instruction master has no character. I would not trust in the "science" of such a perverted creature.
David Touretzky and Government Grants Abuse of Taxpayer Money? This page inaugurates a special feature of Religious Freedom Watch. We have posted the evidence of Touretzky's extremism. We have shown evidence of Touretzky wasting the time, money and computer facilities of his employer by devoting his energies to these destructive pursuits.
We will now begin posting the government grants received by Touretzky so that everyone will know the government agencies who are indirectly supporting Touretzky's extremist agenda by way of their financial contributions. Considering the first grant, one would think, for example, that the National Science Foundation would not want their $338,334 supporting Touretzky's bomb-making instructions, his racist hate speech and his other excesses -- especially at a time when government resources are strained fighting the war on terrorism.
This grant is only the first of many we have obtained and, frankly, it is quite a load to analyze, scan and post, but it is worth it considering the invaluable material uncovered. So look for regular postings on this site.
Further information concerning Professor Touretzky's extravagant experiments will be posted when obtained.
Grants Applied For By Professor David Touretzky National Science Foundation: Account Number 9978403
Home | Latest News | Anti-Religious Extremists | Hate Groups | Influence of Hate | Experts | False Experts? | Hate Crimes & The Law | Whistleblowers | Articles | Combating Hate
For the truth about religion: Buddhism, Christianity, Catholicism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Scientology, What is Scientology?, Scientology Theology General
StilllovingMa...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) writes: > Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message <news:1xlj89eg.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>... >> Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes:
>> > the sad thing is that unless someone is aware that you several fine >> > young Lispniks are effectively acting in concert, they will agree cll >> > is a dump; you guys /are/ turning c.l.l. into a cesspool, something >> > no non-Lispnik troll could ever do.
>> I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point.
> Dave Touretzky is a psychiatric troll. The porn and bomb instruction > master has no character. I would not trust in the "science" of such a > perverted creature.
> >> > the sad thing is that unless someone is aware that you several fine > >> > young Lispniks are effectively acting in concert, they will agree cll > >> > is a dump; you guys /are/ turning c.l.l. into a cesspool, something > >> > no non-Lispnik troll could ever do.
> >> I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point.
> > Dave Touretzky is a psychiatric troll. The porn and bomb instruction > > master has no character. I would not trust in the "science" of such a > > perverted creature.
> Aw, this is getting too easy.
I wonder how the 'bot will do with Joe Touretzky and David Marshall?
> > > Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message > > > <news:1xlj89eg.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>... > > >> Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes:
> > >> > the sad thing is that unless someone is aware that you several fine > > >> > young Lispniks are effectively acting in concert, they will agree cll > > >> > is a dump; you guys /are/ turning c.l.l. into a cesspool, something > > >> > no non-Lispnik troll could ever do.
> > >> I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point.
> > > Dave Touretzky is a psychiatric troll. The porn and bomb instruction > > > master has no character. I would not trust in the "science" of such a > > > perverted creature.
Crap. I mean to delete all this context. I guess a Turing test of its sophistication will have to wait for another day/time/thread.
Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote: > StilllovingMa...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) writes: > > Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message > > <news:1xlj89eg.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>... > >> I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point. > > Dave Touretzky is a psychiatric troll. The porn and bomb instruction > > master has no character. I would not trust in the "science" of such a > > perverted creature. > Aw, this is getting too easy.
It's even funnier if you haven't read the group for a few days and her response came up wham, bam, right after your call, as if she was in the room listening.
> >> > the sad thing is that unless someone is aware that you several fine > >> > young Lispniks are effectively acting in concert, they will agree cll > >> > is a dump; you guys /are/ turning c.l.l. into a cesspool, something > >> > no non-Lispnik troll could ever do.
> >> I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point.
> > Dave Touretzky is a psychiatric troll. The porn and bomb instruction > > master has no character. I would not trust in the "science" of such a > > perverted creature.
Fred Gilham <gil...@snapdragon.csl.sri.com> writes: > Oh-oh. Another political thread. You guys should subscribe to > talk.politics.misc so that whenever the urge strikes, you can just > post there.
Good idea; I just hope that the next one condemning either LispWorks, Allegro, MCL, Corman Lisp, Genera, Macsyma, or other Lisp products regularly attracting the wrath of certain posters for being too expensive in their opinion, will do it there, too ;-)
> Or, as the waiter at the posh restaraunt said, when he saw a man > suddenly leap up and try to strangle his wife, "Sir! There's a > *place* for that!"
:-)
Regards, -- Nils Gösche "Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."
Nils Gösche wrote: > Fred Gilham <gil...@snapdragon.csl.sri.com> writes:
>>Oh-oh. Another political thread. You guys should subscribe to >>talk.politics.misc so that whenever the urge strikes, you can just >>post there.
> Good idea; I just hope that the next one condemning either LispWorks, > Allegro, MCL, Corman Lisp, Genera, Macsyma, or other Lisp products > regularly attracting the wrath of certain posters for being too > expensive in their opinion, will do it there, too ;-)
Nonsense. I agreed the OP was wrong to flame Xanalys and that a correction was sensible. I explicitly objected to the use of fighting words.
I'd like to think it's your reading comprehension, but much more of this weaseling and occam will plop for "intellectual dishonesty".
Barbara Schwarz <StilllovingMa...@myway.com> wrote: > Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message <news:wu37f52h.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>... >> StilllovingMa...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) writes: >> > Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message <news:1xlj89eg.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>... >> >> Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes:
>> >> > the sad thing is that unless someone is aware that you several fine >> >> > young Lispniks are effectively acting in concert, they will agree cll >> >> > is a dump; you guys /are/ turning c.l.l. into a cesspool, something >> >> > no non-Lispnik troll could ever do.
>> >> I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point.
>> > Dave Touretzky is a psychiatric troll. The porn and bomb instruction >> > master has no character. I would not trust in the "science" of such a >> > perverted creature.
>> Aw, this is getting too easy.
> Easy, but very sneaky, Joe.
Did you know that David Touretzky has an interesting Web page about people who believe (among other crazy things) that Hawai'i existed 75 million years ago?
-- Karl A. Krueger <kkrue...@example.edu> Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution Email address is spamtrapped. s/example/whoi/ "Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews
> Barbara Schwarz <StilllovingMa...@myway.com> wrote: > > Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message <news:wu37f52h.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>... > >> StilllovingMa...@myway.com (Barbara Schwarz) writes: > >> > Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote in message <news:1xlj89eg.fsf@ccs.neu.edu>... > >> >> Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes:
> >> >> > the sad thing is that unless someone is aware that you several fine > >> >> > young Lispniks are effectively acting in concert, they will agree cll > >> >> > is a dump; you guys /are/ turning c.l.l. into a cesspool, something > >> >> > no non-Lispnik troll could ever do.
> >> >> I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point.
> >> > Dave Touretzky is a psychiatric troll. The porn and bomb instruction > >> > master has no character. I would not trust in the "science" of such a > >> > perverted creature.
> >> Aw, this is getting too easy.
> > Easy, but very sneaky, Joe.
> Did you know that David Touretzky has an interesting Web page about > people who believe (among other crazy things) that Hawai'i existed 75 > million years ago?
He has bomb instructions and porn on his website. He shows crazy juveniles and terrorists the way.
Touretzky knows that those OT III materials, that he has on his website, are forgeries. But he leaves them there to make Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard look ridiculous. He is a religious persecutor.
> > >> I think it is worth mentioning David Touretzky at this point.
> > > Dave Touretzky is a psychiatric troll. The porn and bomb instruction > > > master has no character. I would not trust in the "science" of such a > > > perverted creature.
> > Aw, this is getting too easy.
> It's even funnier if you haven't read the group for a few days and her > response came up wham, bam, right after your call, as if she was in the > room listening.
> Michael
I do have that effect on people, Michael. I just can't do nothing against it. :)
Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes: > If I got on Lisp IRC and called Rahul a douchebag, how long would I > last?
Douchebag that I am, it's taken this long for me to catch up to this point in c.l.l. But for the record, I believe the answer would be "rather long", considering the fate of others who have done likewise.
Does that mean you approve of Kaz's and Nils's behavior?
;)
-- Rahul Jain rj...@nyct.net Professional Software Developer, Amateur Quantum Mechanicist
>>If I got on Lisp IRC and called Rahul a douchebag, how long would I >>last?
> ... it's taken this long for me to catch up to this...
Too long. Ancient history.
All i know is that Cells II is pretty close to passing the old regression test suite, and that for the first time I have a formal description of the damn things (not that i know what a formal description is). Want to be a reader? I think i should have at least one Yobbo in there just for fun.
:)
kenny
ps. Omigod! i finally saw a most astonishingly bad artifact from OpenGL: as a simple outline of a square moved diagonally down/left off the screen, a /portion/ of the bottom managed to stay in view with the top slowly closing in on it. You were right! But I still like the OpenGL bet, especially since I see online virtual gaming eroding television significantly. The resources going into OpenGL is exactly where Lisp wants to be.
Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes: > ps. Omigod! i finally saw a most astonishingly bad artifact from OpenGL:
They're from your crappy (a.k.a. consumer-level) OpenGL accelerator, not from the API spec, to be correct. Get a better accelerator and you'll have a better GUI.
:)
> But I still like the OpenGL bet, especially since I see online virtual > gaming eroding television significantly.
Hmm. I don't see how that has anything to do with your 2-D UI model, but OK. Unless you've actually described how a text field behaves when all you can see is the top edge or if you're looking at the back of it.
:)
> The resources going into OpenGL is exactly where Lisp wants to be.
Eh? I don't see anything particularly important about the connection between Lisp and any specific graphics API any more than I see anything particularly important about the connection between Lisp and any specific programming paradigm (say logical or contraint-propagation). What do you _really_ mean here?
-- Rahul Jain rj...@nyct.net Professional Software Developer, Amateur Quantum Mechanicist
