11:19:53 on Sun May 12
----- $ clisp

  i i i i i i i       ooooo    o        ooooooo   ooooo   ooooo
  I I I I I I I      8     8   8           8     8     o  8    8
  I  \ `+' /  I      8         8           8     8        8    8
   \  `-+-'  /       8         8           8      ooooo   8oooo
    `-__|__-'        8         8           8           8  8
        |            8     o   8           8     o     8  8
  ------+------       ooooo    8oooooo  ooo8ooo   ooooo   8

* Of what significance is the menorah symbol in the context of this
  application?

I'd have a hard time imagining a name that would seem "more Jewish"
than that.  "Samuel" is a pretty good Jewish name; Stein is pretty
typically Jewish; "gold" is also a common indicator.  

        henry
        synthesp...@uol.com.br

    Christopher> Probably has something to do with Sam Steingold being one of the
    Christopher> principal developers.  

The menorah predates Sam's involvement.  For as long as I can
remember, it's always been there.  Perhaps Bruno Haible put it there?

When I asked Bruno Haible, the main hacker behind CLISP, about the
logo, he said that he will tell me that when we meet in person.
(We did meet in person, I did get an answer to the question,
and, obviously, I will not disclose it here.)

If you must have some answer and you don't care whether it is correct
or not, you may think that CL brings the Light to a programmer, and
CLISP is a vehicle that carries the Light. :-)

this is a CLISP FAQ, but we are still waiting for a CLISP FAQ list
maintainer to volunteer...

It seems odd that your later comments indicate that there's some
quasi-secret behind it; I'd suggest you guys consider publishing the
reasoning, as this is the sort of thing that would lead the more
paranoid to conspiracy theory.

There are quite enough people out there that like blaming everything
that they don't like in the world on the "international bankers"
(which apparently is the white supremacist codeword for "Evil Jews,"
or just "Jews," the "Evil" part being redundant to them).

Regards,
--
Nils Goesche
"Don't ask for whom the <CTRL-G> tolls."

 synthespian>        Of what significance is your question in this newsgroup?

Texe Marrs might be good outlet for this scoop:

   http://www.texemarrs.com/121997/LOGO.HTM

and i quote:

"Apple Computers was cofounded in the 70s by Stephen Jobs, a weird, New
Age guru-type, and Steven Wozniak, also an advocate of the Aquarian Age
culture. When entrepreneurs Jobs and Wozniak first marketed their
earliest, crude personal computer, they put a price tag of $666 on the
product. 666! Coincidental--or on purpose? You decide."

:)

--

The Word

In the beginning
was the Word
and the Word
was with God

And God gave us
the word
and we dwelt
in the Word

And the Word is
our dream
and the dream is
our Life

  I am much more offended by this confusion of private and professional
  issues than I could possibly be by the menorah.  That confusion, however,
  is not limited to abusing symbols of Judaism, but to such things as
  refusing to work in the People's Republic of China:

     (PRC () (values -8
                     (error "Timezone for PRC not implemented -
Don't forget that 10000 students were murdered by the government
of the \"People's Republic of China\" in June 1989!"
     )       )       )

  This immature expression of political activism means that I cannot even
  refer to the local time of the Tiananmen Guangchang event itself, or any
  other event in PRC for that matter.  It thus works better for those who
  want to quell criticism than those who want to make it.  The latter are
  not likely to remove that stupid error in the source, while the former
  are -- in their own copies and the ones they distribute.  (Provided that
  "PRC" is a useful way to refer to Chinese timezones, of course.)

  While I may not object to this particular immature expression of
  political activism, what is next?  Who _are_ the people I have to be
  prepared to agree with on some random political agenda in order to be
  able to continue to use a piece of software?  I believe the use of the
  menorah gives me _some_ clues, because it is no longer just a religious
  symbol; it must be seen in the context of the political agenda of which
  there is strong if not ample evidence elsewhere.  Now that Israel has
  gone from simply angry to downright mad and tolerate about as much
  criticism of their actions as a regular psychopath, organizations that
  have supported Israel in the past, in countries that supported Israel in
  the past, are suddenly labeled "enemies of Israel".  Since the use of the
  menorah is "secret", how can I help feeling I have to prepare for the
  situation that CLISP may suddenly stop working in Oslo after some
  otherwise innocuous upgrade, because of the Oslo agreement, which was
  just killed in the Likud party?  Considering that at least one of the
  developers have expressed extremely irrational sentiments about Emacs, I
  have a dim view of his general level of rationality in _professional_
  matters.  The personal I could not care less about, but when they are
  seriously confused, what am I to do?

  Of course, I just classified myself as a "loser" in Sam Steingold's view
  because I _disagree_ with something that is clearly out of place in any
  software product, and thus I am not in his intended "user base".  The
  arrogance of this attitude is just as bad as the "I know better than the
  standard, everybody else, and you in particular, so I implement this
  differently for your own good"-attitude that has been with CLISP from the
  outset, too.

  I may actually want to join the moral equivalent of a political party in
  the sense that Kent Pitman has described the Common Lisp community versus
  the Scheme community, but I do _not_ want to join a real political party
  or movement or whatever just because I may want to use a particular
  software product in that community.  Not only has that software product
  made it clear that its constituency is intentionally not overlapping with
  the Common Lisp community, it has now made it clear that it is the
  intersection of a subset of the Common Lisp community _and_ some random
  political movement _and_ some random group with some sort of religious
  ties.  I am well known for my limited patience with stupidity, but this
  really takes the cake.  Of course, it matches the "C is not good enough
  for me, so I have slightly altered the comment syntax" cruft, not to
  mention "I know where the right parens should go, and you don't".

  If your goal is to get only people who agree with _all_ these very
  strange ideas to use CLISP, and label everyone else "losers", feel free,
  but you should really put this in a end-user license agreement and
  require that people "sign" it before they run into problems because of
  their implicit agreement with something they may explicitly disagree with
  if they get the option to voice their opinion.  It may be a "smart" move
  to make the "accept" button read "I'm a winner" and the "reject" button
  "I'm a loser" so that you can appropriately express your arrogance, too.
--
  In a fight against something, the fight has value, victory has none.
  In a fight for something, the fight is a loss, victory merely relief.

Cheers

(Ups, I should not have said that! Our worst nightmare might come true,
i.e.
Erik joins the mailing-lists! HEEEEEELLLP!!! *rofl* we could use a
list-bot
that implements the ELIZA-program in order to keep him busy...)

Where is the evidence for your claims?
Please give an explicit pointer! No false claims please!

Criticizing the massacre of Tiananmen does not put you in a political
party.
If I recall correctly, members of all kinds of political shades all over
the
world were appalled by this crime. BTW, the lines of code that offended
your
political feelings were removed from the source. Clisp takes care of
everybody's
political feelings, even yours!

Well, I agree, that the clisp source was not the best forum to express
one's
feelings towards the mentioned events.

Please give an explicit pointer of evidence!

Then let's compare the code quality they have produced (can be verified
by anybody who downloads the source of CLISP)
with the quality of code that you produce. Show us _your_ code, please!

We translate the German comments in the source code that were written
at a time when Bruno did not foresee that Clisp would get such
widespread
international use. Is this arrogant??

"Haible", for you Antisemites out there, is definitely
not a jewish surname. It is typically German! And I am an undisputable
authourity in German in comparison to you! :-)
So you Aryans can still use Clisp without causing your reproduction
organs to
fall off or even shrink further!

(BTW, I am not a Jew. I do not have problems with the clisp banner and I
do
not have a problem with Sam. He, on the other hand, does not have a
problem with me
being a German, despite the fact that Germans have committed the worst
crimes
in the history of mankind against Jews. This is called forgiveness and
tolerance.
Try to spell that, for starters, maybe you understand what I am talking
about in
a couple of years).

Maybe you should check out the developer mailing list more often than
once
in every decade...

regularly updating against the current CVS-tree and reading the cvs
check-in comments
helps a lot!

Give it a try!

P.S.: Linking clisp's development, which started more than 10 years ago,
with the
current mess in the near east is so simply outrageous...  
that I am not going to waste my time to answer your
useless crappy follow-ups that will surely emerge in this thread, Erik.

  Please engage your brain and stop being so passive-aggressive.

| (Ups, I should not have said that! Our worst nightmare might come true,
| i.e.  Erik joins the mailing-lists! HEEEEEELLLP!!! *rofl* we could use a
| list-bot that implements the ELIZA-program in order to keep him busy...)

  Please ask your psychiatrists or guardians to increase your dosage.

| Where is the evidence for your claims?

  I quoted from the source code, you imbecile.

| Please give an explicit pointer! No false claims please!

  Please give me the name of your psychiatrists and solid reference that
  your IQ according to the Stanford-Binet test is at least 80.  No false
  claims, please.

| BTW, the lines of code that offended your political feelings were removed
| from the source.

  Please realize that no political feelings were offended just because you
  are an offensive idiot with emotional problems.

| Well, I agree, that the clisp source was not the best forum to express
| one's feelings towards the mentioned events.

  Please prove solid evidence of the best forum to express such feelings
  and prove irrefutably that it is different from the clisp sources.

| Please give an explicit pointer of evidence!

  Please give me explicit evidence that you are for real.  German birth
  certificates are not sufficient, as any second-generation Nazi cloning
  experiment would probably be genetically identical and you could have
  stolen one of those.

| This limited patience does not seem to be self-referential, sadly...
| you obviously have great patience with yourself.

  Please give an explicit pointer to your evidence for this claim.

| Show us your craft!  Try to implement a project of CLISP's size with the
| craftsmanship that Bruno (and later Sam) applied!  

  Please show me the law that forbids criticism of a stupid engineering
  choice without having to do something better according to your standards.

| Then let's compare the code quality they have produced (can be verified
| by anybody who downloads the source of CLISP) with the quality of code
| that you produce.  Show us _your_ code, please!

  Look, is your particular psychosis named after you or your doctor?

| He does not like talkers, like you, Erik!

  Please give pointers to explicit evidence of both of your claims.

| "Haible", for you Antisemites out there, is definitely not a jewish
| surname.

  Please prove all of your explicit and implicit claims.  Please prove that
  all charges against you for racially motivated violence have been dropped.
  Please prove that none of your ancestors were war criminals.

| It is typically German!

  Please provide a government-approved list of what is typically German and
  prove that what you claim is on it is actually on it.  Please translate
  this list to at least 120 languages, as nobody in their right mind speaks
  German, anymore, and prove that no translation errors were made.

| And I am an undisputable authourity in German in comparison to you! :-)

  Please give an explicit pointer to your credentials and that not a single
  human being would dispute your authority nor that any such human being
  could possibly exist.

  Please prove that the stupid grin on your face is a removable feature.

| So you Aryans can still use Clisp without causing your reproduction
| organs to fall off or even shrink further!

  Please prove that you are not a dickless eunuch.  Please prove that your
  organ is not a reproduction.  (It's _reproductive_, you blathering idiot!)

| (BTW, I am not a Jew.

  Please prove that not a single birthing woman on your maternal side
  shares any genes with any of the 12 tribes of Israel.  40,000 years
  should be enough for a background check.

| I do not have problems with the clisp banner and I do not have a problem

  Please prove that you do not have any problems.

| He, on the other hand, does not have a problem with me being a German,
| despite the fact that Germans have committed the worst crimes in the
| history of mankind against Jews.

  I shall accept this without proof because it is illegal in Germany to
  question this historical event, and that probably encompasses asking for
  proof of the bloody obvious, even though this kind of behavior also seems
  to be a peculiar trait with severely braindamaged German by-products.

| This is called forgiveness and tolerance.

  Please prove this with a survey of at least 10% of the earth population
  who agree with you about the meaning of these terms.

| Try to spell that, for starters, maybe you understand what I am talking
| about in a couple of years).

  Please give me pointers to solid evidence that you understand what you
  are talking about.

| It is not clisp's goal.

  Please quote the section of the license that states CLISP's goals and
  prove that it is different from what you say it is different from.

| These strange ideas only spin around in your head.

  Please provide a pointer to the evidence of this claim.

| The _reality_ of current clisp-development has NOTHING to do with your
| objections...

  Please provide a pointer to a scientific article proving this point.
  Please acquire a consensus of all German philosophers about the nature of
  "reality" and prove that they tall talk about the same thing.

| Maybe you should check out the developer mailing list more often than
| once in every decade...  regularly updating against the current CVS-tree
| and reading the cvs check-in comments helps a lot!

  Please provide corroborated evidence of double-blind tests that show that
  your recommendations are not harmful to normal people and that they would
  not end up like you.

| Give it a try!

  Please give me pointers to some evidence that you have the proper German
  government approvals to suggest any course of action to others, proof of
  your malsuggestion insurance, and provide evidence that your brain damage
  was a preexisting condition and was not caused by what you suggest.

| P.S.: Linking clisp's development, which started more than 10 years ago,
| with the current mess in the near east is so simply outrageous...

  Please prove this claim.

| that I am not going to waste my time to answer your useless crappy
| follow-ups that will surely emerge in this thread, Erik.

  Please provide solid evidence of how you know the future.

  I seriously doubt that medical science will find a cure for you, Stefan,
  but you could make medical history if you donate your brain to science
  _today_!  Give it a try!  I personally guarantee you that you would not
  feel any differently about the world you live in, but we would.  Thank
  you for not being a Jew -- they have enough problems as it is.  If you
  feel particularly generous, consider recycling the rest of yourself, too
  -- I do not eat pork because pigs are more sentient and intelligent than
  many people much like you, but feeding you to pigs would be perfectly OK.

  If you feel like getting a better brain after you donate your current
  non-vital organ, and maybe want to appear to be something that would pass
  for a human if you do not post or speak, let me know.  I am always open
  to the wonders of medical technology when it comes to things like you.
  Enabling something like you to post to USENET would have been impossible
  only a few years ago, for instance.  Needless to say, I do not consider
  your ability to work on CLISP to be an achievement, but I am sure the
  others on that team know how to express their gratitude for your special
  abilities.  If I were them, however, I would consider flushing you down
  the toilet, in a public relations effort.

  Or maybe someone should just send "(quit)" to you?  That would be good.
--
  In a fight against something, the fight has value, victory has none.
  In a fight for something, the fight is a loss, victory merely relief.

Oleg schrieb:

But I use windows, clisp starts with a *.bat file and so I added this:
@echo off
echo       (*_*)
echo..................
c:\clisp\lisp.exe -M ...

bye
stefan

      (*_*)      
.................
  i i i i i i i  
  I I I I I I I  
  I  \ `+´ /  I  
   \  `-+-´  /  
    `-__|__-´    
        |        
  ------+------