--

        You must be thinking this is comp.lang.erik the way you act.
Don't let the few suck ups here make you feel that you are king.
However supremely intelligent & knowledgable you may be, it is no use
to humanity if you cause more destruction than construction.  The suck
ups would rather eat dirt and exploit your knowledge than be honest to
you.

Your arrogance in front of public opinion is appalling.
The thickness of your skull (in non-technical matters) must be inches.
Your rudeness is tremendous.

You disrespect your own intelligence and knowledge by your unwise
rants.

        Even with the above mentioned qualities, I really like you.
Really.  So I have one advice for you.  /Really/ hope you take it.
Don't end up the guy who everyone talks nice to because he is very
rich and they want a piece of his pile and then hate him behind his
back.  Stop fucking burning your own blood for who you think are
fools.  Stop fucking responding to who you think are assholes and
concentrate on what you are /excellent/ at.  Lisp.

quasi
--

  I would suggest that you shut the fuck up.

--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

The "positive reinforcement" methodology would go something along the
following lines:

  "I think that a vacation is an /excellent/ idea, and I thank you for
  your kind suggestion.  

  The idea would be made even better, of course, if you were to send
  your girlfriend to the appropriate South Sea island, along with a
  $1000 gift certificate for <http://www.victoriassecret.com/>.

marc

No, I would regard this as an insult. Heck, I can open the door on my
own. Does this "someone" think I am physically retarded, or what?
Actually, I would say "fuck you".

*irony off*

Pascal

marc

  Actually, I think the whole "positive reinforcement methodology" is
  really a manipulative name for a manipulative and dishonest methodology
  that causes people to lose touch with reality and live in a cocoon of
  good feelings when they really should wake the hell up and deal with it.
  It appears that proponents for this "methodology" are pretty incompetent
  at reading what people actually write, too, preferring to blather on with
  their own agenda.  Actually /listening/ is hard work.  It is made harder
  by mind games and multiple wrappers around the real meat, and it appears
  that those who prefer nice wrapping paper are quite happy not to open the
  packages.

| The "positive reinforcement" methodology would go something along the
| following lines:

  While humorous, I find it much more disrespectful than a direct approach,
  which at the very least retains the ability for the victim to respond.
  The snotty arrogance that some people seem to prefer over directness has
  as its primary result that the victim has no recourse.  This is useful if
  you have no intention of letting the other guy learn anything and no
  intention of letting him recover from his mistake by actually improving.

  One of my old signatures might be apropos.

--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

enforced politeness is comic(in a hidious sort of way).  I am sooo glad
that you came around to my way of looking at things.  

Now when I do hold doors open or in general at least try to help people
I am being civil not polite. Yes I know one of the definitions of civil
is polite, but the one I am using here is: Of relating to, or
benifitting a citizen or citizens.  Another reason I help people is that
I am paying a debt back to the people who have been kind and generious
enough to help me both personaly and professionaly.  It is also *fun* to
help people who take advantage of it.

marc

  I was going to give you a second chance and actually read your pathetic
  excuse for a public post in the spirit of positive reinforcement, but I
  consider this a threat.  Had you been brave enough to back that threat up
  with a real name and verifiable mail address instead of the chicken-shit
  illiterate scrawl you sign your articles with, you could be feeling the
  consequences of /your/ threatening, abusive behavior.  However, since you
  are such a yellow belly that you cannot even have a real name, a threat
  from such a pathetic loser only means that the futility of his massive
  failure to cope with the world he lives in has found yet another outlet.

| You must be thinking this is comp.lang.erik the way you act.

  Dear "quasi",

  Your command of the English language is quite good.  I would say it is
  much better than the 25% most illiterate native users of English, but
  when it comes to actually grasping what you read, you /feel/ far too much
  for your own good and your ability to actually understand anything in
  your emotional state is probably limited to primitive emotional reactions
  to individual words out of context.  I throw them in to smoke out idiots
  like yourself, you see.  All the same, I would suggest that you take a
  closer look at the Subject header, or whatever it is called in your user-
  friendly interface, and perhaps you will see that it reads "Understanding
  Erik Naggum".  Do you think this is in any way related to what I write in
  this thread?  Or, considering your mental state, make that: Do you /feel/
  that this is in any way related to what I write?  Can you manage to get
  anything through your input channels that would make you grasp that this
  is thread is indeed about me?  If you cannot grasp that, then perhaps you
  should ease up on the tough guy routine, lest people think you are one of
  those muscle-men without any brains, and find a better role model than
  Steven Segal or Dolph Lundgren?

| Don't let the few suck ups here make you feel that you are king.  However
| supremely intelligent & knowledgable you may be, it is no use to humanity
| if you cause more destruction than construction.  The suck ups would
| rather eat dirt and exploit your knowledge than be honest to you.

  You are so offensive and yet so impotent.  Nameless, identity-less, too
  feeble-minded to understand a Subject header, and yet so repulsive.  And
  all this in reaction to something you do not like, including, evidently,
  foul language, which you have still not quite mastered so it sounds quite
  ridiculous and pathetic, really.  Clearly, what we have here a specimen
  of the lower primates that has learned to use a keyboard.  Say, have you
  tried to get your friends together and produce the collected works of
  Shakespeare yet?

| Your arrogance in front of public opinion is appalling.  The thickness of
| your skull (in non-technical matters) must be inches.  Your rudeness is
| tremendous.

  Wow!  Look who forgot their chill pill this morning.  *laugh*

| You disrespect your own intelligence and knowledge by your unwise rants.

  Luckily, I have something to disrespect.  You can only dream about that.

| Even with the above mentioned qualities, I really like you.  Really.

  Not done with the offensiveness, yet?  You do not know enough to like
  me.  That presume you do, must either mean that you are so shallow that
  you can actually like or dislike people based on the extremely limited
  exposure you get to somebody in a written medium.  Reasonably smart
  people hold off on the like/dislike thing and instead like or dislike
  what they actually read, such as individual articles or even expressions
  or images.  The need you have to extrapolate and create personas that you
  can feel like or dislike towards places you in the group of people who
  want to emulate characters in TV series.

| So I have one advice for you.

  You think I take advice from people who tell me they like me?  You are
  one of the touchy-feely guys who think positive reinforcement is a good
  idea, right?  Do you really think your behavior says anything other than
  that you lack the prerequisite mental qualities to be able to /actually/
  like someone?  Again, you are nameless, identity-less, chicken-shit fool
  and you think people of your caliber can /like/ people?  You do not even
  have the mental capacity to empathize with /yourself/, yet.  Get a dog if
  you need a role model you can strive to live up to.

| Don't end up the guy who everyone talks nice to because he is very rich
| and they want a piece of his pile and then hate him behind his back.

  You know, for someone who hates me behind my back, your knowledge of
  anatomy leaves something to be desired.

| Stop fucking burning your own blood for who you think are fools.

  You touchy-feely people are so unable to realize when people are not like
  you.  That is probably because those of you who inabit the middle of the
  Gauss curve have a pretty good chance of meeting people like yourself and
  a low probability of encountering anyone dissimilar from yourself because
  you are so repulsive to people a couple standard deviations off to the
  right of you.  I'll bet your favorite American actor is Jim Carrey, but
  you didn't understand where to laugh in «The Majestic» so you told your
  friends to rent «Cable Guy», instead.

| Stop fucking responding to who you think are assholes and concentrate on
| what you are /excellent/ at.  Lisp.

  The saddest part of this false praise is that you do not have the ability
  to judge excellence.  The best you can do is "better than quasi", which
  is about as insulting as "smarter than ilias" or "you have an excellent
  career opportunity as seeying-eye man for blind dogs".

--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

I do it also for several reasons:

Some one has done me some small service so I should acknoledge it.

If I do not acknoledge it as a thing done by choice I am claiming it
as a right.  And saying you are not my equal in society.  

Another reason is to encourage the behavior, it benafits me and society
in general.  I feel that opening doors and correcting mistakes both fall
into that catagory of behavior

There are others but I need to go get my diner.

 a) The the individual that gets excreted upon decides to shut up, or

 b) They get mad, and head into "monkeys, dung-flinging" mode.  Which
    leads to a big long stream of messages that are, well, the Usenet
    equivalent to excrement, and which is what irritates everyone no
    end about the sorts of threads that get entitled with your name.

    RF> |   I've always lived that way.  It's nice, it's pleasant---if you
    RF> |   can do it.  I'm lucky in my life that I can do this.

    EN>   I have read all of Feynman's books and those about him, and find that his
    EN>   person is quite interesting in addition to his work.  I still wonder what
    EN>   the "lucky" part refers to.

I am not sure I understand---do you mean that being able to speak
one's opinion straight does not depend on luck?

---Vassil.

        My post to Erik, though strange, was accurate in its content.
Don't tell me that I don't have any right to comment, because I have -
at least in my country.

        Eriks supreme technical excellence does /not/ give him
complete freedom of misbehavior.  So please don't take it as if
someone is attacking /your/ friend Erik.  I am not attacking anyone.
Just /requesting/ him to stop attacking people.

        If he has personal wars against anyone, why make c.l.l the
battleground?  It gives c.l.l a bad name.

        At least have the guts to be honest.  Bah. Inspite of his
thick skull, Erik is at least honest.

quasi
--

Erik, stop pretending.  I fail to understand your having to bring up
such contrived and actually childish rants.  Anyway it is quite clear
that it is impossible to reason with you.  It is beyond your
capabilities.  So I will not even ask you to listen.

But I can tell you one thing.  I am part of this community as you are
- and unlike some here, I will speak out if you overdo your "angry old
man" act.  The previous post was the last "bad" post from me to c.l.l.

But not the last one.

We also agree that a lot of people over 18 are sensitive.

I would go further and say everyone is sensitive, but that some very few
have developed the self-control to check their wounded pride before
responding to remarks which do not take folks' sensitivity into account.
Those few get thru such moments by thinking to themselves, "Ah, I have a
low social IQ on my hands, better turn down the gain on my insult antenna."

This reminds me of a great line from some legendary engineer at Bell
Labs, who apparently enjoyed Feynman-esque exemption from workplace
social mores: "The hardest thing for me was realizing that I was being
tolerated by the people I had been tolerating."

:)

people.

are you really unable to understand?

-

'friends'.

can you really abuse a human this way?

-

reflection.

many ways to do this.

some people don't do.

some people do silent, internally.

some people do loud, but alone.

some people do loud, with others.

-

some people do reflection with projection.

projecting their faults into other people.

-

read carefully the postings of what you try to understand.

screaming for help.

-

don't answer to his messages.

this is what he really wants.

this is what he really needs.

  Your hangup with it amuses me.

| I have replied to both your "don't be an asshole" emails you sent me.

  No separation of private from public space.

| More than that, you have my website address where, I am sure, you can
| find all the details about me for the "consequences" you promise me.

  The point is how you present yourself to this forum, not to me.

| Erik, stop pretending.

  I never pretend.  I do not need to.  Really.

| I fail to understand your having to bring up such contrived and actually
| childish rants.

  The four first words are the key.

| Anyway it is quite clear that it is impossible to reason with you.

  Oh, you were /reasoning/ with me.  I am so pleased to learn this.

| It is beyond your capabilities.

  Is it not quite curious how other people come to different conclusions
  that sort of, if not entirely, contradict your conclusions?  What do you
  think that says about you?

| So I will not even ask you to listen.

  Good.  I would not listen if you asked me to.

| But I can tell you one thing.

  Amazing!

| I am part of this community as you are - and unlike some here, I will
| speak out if you overdo your "angry old man" act.

  Yes, all good communities need nutjobs that "will speak out".

| The previous post was the last "bad" post from me to c.l.l.

  Promises, promises.

| You are actually hilarious.

  You may be surprised to learn this, but the intent is to make people
  laugh.  At you.

| But wait.. I made you write all that.

  You are probably the only one who flatter yourself.

| And it must have made a few laugh.

  You sound like you think this is an insult or something.

| So one good deed crossed up for me. wOw.  Thanks Erik.

  You sound even more like you are deeply hurt.  Good.  I think people who
  behave the way you do /when they have only been bystanders/ need to get
  seriously wounded, so perhaps they learn not to intervene.

| Because I meant it to be only quasihostile anyway.

  Ah, your chosen nickname explained.

| You are such a dickhead.

  Promises, promises.

| You like/dislike people instantaneous the moment you are in contact with
| them.

  No.  I do not.  I am not interested in people.  Some people can actually
  focus on their work and on learning something from other people, not on
  the people.  This actually means treating people with the fundamental
  respect you find in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.  If you
  take too much interest in people, you will, out of necessity, dislike
  some people so much that you /will/ feel an urge to mistreat them.  Such
  as shitheads like you.  But you have pre-approved your treatment by the
  way you choose to attack me from being a bystander.  Your lack of ability
  to curtail your revengeful urges is what makes you less than a human.

| But that like/dislike is not absolute.  It incrementally evolves with
| more and more contact.

  People who like/dislike others prematurely tend to want only to reinforce
  their impressions and go overboard with emotions when people turn out to
  be different than they expected.  I do not expect much from individuals,
  but I expect a lot from their function in public.  Some people never seem
  to grasp that they are in a public space.  I do not like the behavior of
  such people as they make public discussion impossible for adults.

| no.  It is because I like you that I take the trouble to advice you.

  Stop pretending.  You do not have the mental capacity to like me.

| See what I mean?

  No.

| Pathetic is the only word for you.

  Funny how many words are "the only word".

| If calling me lower than a dog makes your arguments and makes you happy,
| you should look in the mirror.

  I am pleased that I have hurt you.  You deserve that.  I do not wish to,
  nor actually, spank people, but I am overly delighted that I can reach
  down into the heart of some shithead like you and cause you pain after
  what you have done to me.  It may actually teach you something.

| I don't hate you.  I never liked you enough to hate you.  You are just a
| pathetic person.

  So you like pathetic people, then?  Does this in any way relate to your
  inability to reason with people?

| I realise that.

  No, you do not.

| Probably you are one of those who actually enjoy these kind of verbal
| exchanges.

  With shitheads like you who were bystandards but choose to attack me?  Of
  course I do.  The more people like you I can hurt the better, because
  /maybe/ you will realize that I take pleasure in hurting people who
  attack me the way shitheads like you do.  It works wonders.  It causes
  the more retarded ones to hate me and make a spectacle of themselves so
  nobody would ever hire them.  It causes the smarter ones to want to avoid
  being hurt more.  Shitheads like you who go from bystander to attacker
  need to have your heads examined.  Somewhere in your miserable lives, you
  thought that you should attack one person in what you think is a fight.
  That is the most base, the most vile, the most evil, of all behaviors.

  Intelligent, decent people respect due process and do not take the law
  into their own hands.  You are the kind of person who take it upon
  yourself to punish what you think are wrongdoers.  That marks you as a
  seriously dysfunctional person, probably one of a criminal mind, one who
  has no /respect/ for or even /understanding/ of justice.  People like you
  are much worse threats to society than any ills you want to fight because
  you destroy the very concept of justice.

| But other don't.

  You engage in them of your own free will, dude.

| You drive away other people from a community which is /not/ your
| ownership.

  No, I do not.  I drive away shitheads who attack me out of the blue, like
  you do.

| Think about that, if you can.

  Unlike you, I think all the time and do not need to be told when to.

| All you have in your armory is personal attacks and slander?

  If it works to make you suffer, it works to make you suffer.

  Have you ever noticed how stupid people in movies always attack the
  strongest person in the scene one by one and do not understand when to
  quit their stupid fights?  You little wimps keep doing that in this
  newsgroup, too.

| I will accept if the top dog pays top dollar.

  You reveal so much of yourself in public it becomes pornographic.

--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

  Then your purpose is /only/ destructive.  Sorry, I do not accept that.

| It only seems, in practice, to head in two directions, where either:

  The smarter ones learn.  This actually happens quite frequently.  It
  largely goes unnoticed because it is the normal, rational thing to do.
  That does not mean the unnoticed is not more important than that which
  stands out as irritating or annoying.

--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

  No, it does not.  The pus oozes from your wounded psyche.

| My post to Erik, though strange, was accurate in its content.

  That you believe this is quite alarming.

| Don't tell me that I don't have any right to comment, because I have - at
| least in my country.

  Oh, Christ.  He has a "right" to comment.  Lord, take me now!

| Eriks supreme technical excellence does /not/ give him complete freedom
| of misbehavior.

  Actually, it is people like you who cause the "misbehavior".

| So please don't take it as if someone is attacking /your/ friend Erik.

  Oh, Christ.  He has a "right" to attack people.  Lord, take me now!

| I am not attacking anyone.  Just /requesting/ him to stop attacking
| people.

  Riiiiight.

| If he has personal wars against anyone, why make c.l.l the battleground?

  I do not have personal wars against anyone.  Shitheads like you think you
  have a right to comment on me and attack me.  It is your wars, not mine.

| It gives c.l.l a bad name.

  Why do you stay in places with bad names?

| At least have the guts to be honest.

  If you were honest, you would die of shame.

--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

  When did the corrections become "blunt"?  As far as I can tell, Marc was
  talking about corrections.  Why did you make this switch?

| We also agree that a lot of people over 18 are sensitive.

  We do not agree on whether they should know enough not to get themselves
  into positions where they can get hurt.

--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

  I mean that I do not understand what luck has to do with it.

--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway