I've just got my copy of the December 1998 issue of Dr. Dobb's Journal. On page 99 there is the ad for Franz Allegro CL 5.0. I saw other ads by Franz, but this time I have examined it more carefully: the ad contains the right buzzwords, but the words "Lisp" or "CLOS" are missing.
Do ads by other Lisp vendors mention the language? Is "Lisp" such a bad word? Is its reputation so compromised? I know that Lisp can do great things even without mass acceptance or public recognition, and I'm perfectly happy with it myself. I ask that questions because I'm interested in learning something more about its recent history (I read "Patterns of Software" and part of what's available online, including "The Evolution of Lisp").
* amor...@mclink.it (Paolo Amoroso) | Do ads by other Lisp vendors mention the language? Is "Lisp" such a bad | word? Is its reputation so compromised? I know that Lisp can do great | things even without mass acceptance or public recognition, and I'm | perfectly happy with it myself. I ask that questions because I'm | interested in learning something more about its recent history (I read | "Patterns of Software" and part of what's available online, including | "The Evolution of Lisp").
sometimes, people need to be made aware of what they fear actually is before you can tell them not to fear. in my view, formed after talking to lots and lots of people about Lisp, people _fear_ lisp, as much as they _fear_ Unix. the fear is not of the language or operating system, but of being inferior, etc. by telling people "you, too, can use Common Lisp!" through showing them, they might change their minds. I'm only worried about people who don't know what they're doing doing it in Lisp, as that will instill "fear or losing control" in the minds of managers who believe they know how to control the damage C++ does.
a friend sent me the following URL the other day. I found the article fascinating.
Paolo Amoroso wrote: > I've just got my copy of the December 1998 issue of Dr. Dobb's Journal. On > page 99 there is the ad for Franz Allegro CL 5.0. I saw other ads by Franz, > but this time I have examined it more carefully: the ad contains the right > buzzwords, but the words "Lisp" or "CLOS" are missing.
How do you advertise a product without mentioning its name? Did they call it "Allegro CL", like that? Or just "Allegro"?
-- Gareth McCaughan Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics, gj...@dpmms.cam.ac.uk Cambridge University, England.
I've read this before. It is indeed an interesting point of view. I have similar feelings about programming in general. The skills a writer possesses to convey ideas to other people in a concise and readable fashion are very similar to the skills needed by a programmer expressing an algorithm in some programming language.
While I am no great poet, Lisp looks more poetic than C++ or Java. It seems more expressive and fluid. Perl has similar qualities, but it is ugly.
> I've read this before. It is indeed an interesting point of view. I > have similar feelings about programming in general. The skills a > writer possesses to convey ideas to other people in a concise and > readable fashion are very similar to the skills needed by a programmer > expressing an algorithm in some programming language.
> While I am no great poet, Lisp looks more poetic than C++ or Java. It > seems more expressive and fluid. Perl has similar qualities, but it > is ugly.
> -- > David Steuber (ver 1.31.3a) > http://www.david-steuber.com > To reply by e-mail, replace trashcan with david.
Reini Urban wrote in message <366525a4.3035044@judy>... >amor...@mclink.it (Paolo Amoroso) wrote: >>Is "Lisp" such a bad word? >>Paolo Amoroso <amor...@mclink.it>
>not in europe but in the states obviously.
Not sure it is a bad word, maybe unknow or forgotten. A few weeks ago we had some consultants in (the kind that were suits and cost alot) to tell our administration what we had been telling them for months (it just sounds better it it costs alot). One of the "suits" was looking over a monitoring system we have in place in muLisp. The systems monitors payroll processing on a the main frame..watching each check point to make sure it finishes clean, when the process on the main frame is done muLisp file transfers the dataset to it's hard drive, formats the checks to be printed, formats the bank auto-transfer records, phones the bank and transfers the data to the bank. These consultants were financial types verifing the security of all our IS processes dealing with the companies money. He ask few question about the process just to let me know he knew what he was talking about. When he ask what we had written the system in and I told him lisp and assembler, a blank look flashed across his face for a second. He got his composure back and changed the subject quickly. Later one of our group over heard him asking his partner if lisp was a new language....????
[the system is written in muLisp and assembler, using an old IRMA TSR to make the calls to the HALLAPI routines for mainframe access. In the next few months were are installing a hotshot system monitor from DEC that cost an arm and a leg. I hope the dang thing works as good as the muLisp system.....people get really cranky when payroll doesn't run.]
