Statistics for comp.lang.lisp
Greg Bacon
beginning at 17 Sep 2002 16:21:24 GMT and ending at
24 Sep 2002 16:11:47 GMT.
Notes
=====
- A line in the body of a post is considered to be original if it
does *not* match the regular expression /^\s{0,3}(?:>|:|\S+>|\+\+)/.
- All text after the last cut line (/^-- $/) in the body is
considered to be the author's signature.
- The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header
in determining the "real" e-mail address and name.
- Original Content Rating is the ratio of the original content volume
to the total body volume.
- Please send all comments to Greg Bacon <gba...@cs.uah.edu>.
Excluded Posters
================
perlfaq-suggestions\@mox\.perl\.com
Totals
======
Posters: 178
Articles: 715 (261 with cutlined signatures)
Threads: 63
Volume generated: 1676.2 kb
- headers: 726.6 kb (12,390 lines)
- bodies: 899.3 kb (24,626 lines)
- original: 529.6 kb (15,992 lines)
- signatures: 49.6 kb (1,025 lines)
Original Content Rating: 0.589
Averages
========
Posts per poster: 4.0
median: 2.0 posts
mode: 1 post - 75 posters
s: 7.8 posts
Posts per thread: 11.3
median: 4 posts
mode: 1 post - 20 threads
s: 22.3 posts
Message size: 2400.6 bytes
- header: 1040.5 bytes (17.3 lines)
- body: 1288.0 bytes (34.4 lines)
- original: 758.4 bytes (22.4 lines)
- signature: 71.0 bytes (1.4 lines)
Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts
=================================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Posts Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Address
----- -------------------------- -------
70 168.2 ( 73.3/ 94.8/ 41.1) ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
41 106.6 ( 39.6/ 60.5/ 60.5) Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no>
31 54.8 ( 33.4/ 21.4/ 15.7) Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
20 66.8 ( 21.9/ 43.9/ 24.4) Pascal Costanza <cost...@web.de>
19 84.4 ( 26.2/ 54.3/ 23.1) Duane Rettig <du...@franz.com>
18 26.9 ( 16.8/ 10.0/ 4.4) Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
18 27.5 ( 18.8/ 8.6/ 6.0) Espen Vestre <espen@*do-not-spam-me*.vestre.net>
17 45.2 ( 17.0/ 28.2/ 18.2) k...@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku)
16 45.5 ( 15.4/ 23.9/ 6.3) Marco Antoniotti <mar...@cs.nyu.edu>
14 44.2 ( 18.0/ 26.1/ 12.7) "Marshall Spight" <msp...@dnai.com>
These posters accounted for 36.9% of all articles.
Top 10 Posters by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Address
-------------------------- ----- -------
168.2 ( 73.3/ 94.8/ 41.1) 70 ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
106.6 ( 39.6/ 60.5/ 60.5) 41 Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no>
84.4 ( 26.2/ 54.3/ 23.1) 19 Duane Rettig <du...@franz.com>
66.8 ( 21.9/ 43.9/ 24.4) 20 Pascal Costanza <cost...@web.de>
54.8 ( 33.4/ 21.4/ 15.7) 31 Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
45.5 ( 15.4/ 23.9/ 6.3) 16 Marco Antoniotti <mar...@cs.nyu.edu>
45.2 ( 17.0/ 28.2/ 18.2) 17 k...@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku)
44.2 ( 18.0/ 26.1/ 12.7) 14 "Marshall Spight" <msp...@dnai.com>
34.6 ( 10.5/ 19.3/ 10.3) 11 t...@hurricane.OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Thomas F. Burdick)
34.2 ( 11.6/ 22.6/ 9.5) 11 "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
These posters accounted for 40.8% of the total volume.
Top 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.998 ( 60.5 / 60.5) 41 Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no>
0.963 ( 11.4 / 11.8) 9 Bulent Murtezaoglu <b...@acm.org>
0.890 ( 6.3 / 7.1) 7 cubic...@mailandnews.com (Software Scavenger)
0.790 ( 2.1 / 2.7) 6 fad...@ancar.org
0.732 ( 15.7 / 21.4) 31 Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
0.728 ( 3.1 / 4.2) 7 Kevin Rosenberg <ke...@rosenberg.net>
0.712 ( 4.8 / 6.7) 6 "Carlos Ungil" <Carlos...@cern.ch>
0.709 ( 2.4 / 3.3) 6 ozan s yigit <o...@blue.cs.yorku.ca>
0.704 ( 6.0 / 8.6) 18 Espen Vestre <espen@*do-not-spam-me*.vestre.net>
0.701 ( 8.6 / 12.3) 8 quas...@yahoo.com
Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.482 ( 7.3 / 15.2) 8 tassilo....@post.rwth-aachen.de
0.463 ( 8.1 / 17.5) 11 Donald Fisk <hibou000...@enterprise.net>
0.440 ( 4.4 / 10.0) 18 Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
0.433 ( 41.1 / 94.8) 70 ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
0.425 ( 23.1 / 54.3) 19 Duane Rettig <du...@franz.com>
0.422 ( 9.5 / 22.6) 11 "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
0.396 ( 1.1 / 2.8) 5 cst...@dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy)
0.346 ( 3.0 / 8.7) 5 Raymond Wiker <Raymon...@fast.no>
0.333 ( 1.2 / 3.7) 5 Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi>
0.262 ( 6.3 / 23.9) 16 Marco Antoniotti <mar...@cs.nyu.edu>
Top 10 Threads by Number of Posts
=================================
Posts Subject
----- -------
118 Re: becoming a better programmer
104 Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer
52 Re: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1
48 Re: Is there a useful distinction between "programming" and "scripting" languages?
37 is it ok if I quote?
34 ZetaLisp top level environment
31 LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm.
28 Re: read-sequence
19 intentional programming
18 sqrt and speed and fp Was Re: Numbers in Lisp
Top 10 Threads by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Subject
-------------------------- ----- -------
312.4 (126.9/179.6/ 90.7) 104 Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer
301.7 (134.9/155.1/ 87.0) 118 Re: becoming a better programmer
130.6 ( 45.9/ 80.3/ 52.8) 48 Re: Is there a useful distinction between "programming" and "scripting" languages?
116.1 ( 51.6/ 60.3/ 28.3) 52 Re: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1
91.1 ( 33.4/ 54.0/ 37.5) 37 is it ok if I quote?
67.2 ( 28.8/ 36.0/ 23.6) 28 Re: read-sequence
62.3 ( 30.6/ 31.0/ 16.3) 31 LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm.
55.0 ( 30.8/ 23.3/ 16.5) 34 ZetaLisp top level environment
47.5 ( 20.7/ 24.3/ 13.6) 18 sqrt and speed and fp Was Re: Numbers in Lisp
35.8 ( 16.8/ 17.0/ 9.6) 19 intentional programming
Top 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of three posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.932 ( 6.8/ 7.3) 4 Re: Knowledge classification systems
0.872 ( 7.0/ 8.1) 3 Re: Type and Optimize declarations and speedup (was: Re: is it ok if I quote?)
0.816 ( 2.5/ 3.0) 4 tweaking lisp with type declaration macros
0.793 ( 1.1/ 1.3) 5 Subseq relative to end of sequence
0.726 ( 7.1/ 9.8) 12 Re: ANNOUNCE: LML (Lisp Markup Language) Available
0.718 ( 5.1/ 7.1) 10 mysql + cmulisp + xemacs + ...
0.716 ( 4.5/ 6.3) 7 The toxicity of trolls
0.710 ( 16.5/ 23.3) 34 ZetaLisp top level environment
0.694 ( 37.5/ 54.0) 37 is it ok if I quote?
0.685 ( 11.8/ 17.2) 9 Re: LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm. - [#V0.3]
Bottom 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of three posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.526 ( 16.3 / 31.0) 31 LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm.
0.517 ( 1.6 / 3.2) 4 How to create a global variable without using setq or set??
0.505 ( 90.7 /179.6) 104 Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer
0.469 ( 28.3 / 60.3) 52 Re: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1
0.441 ( 2.0 / 4.6) 6 problem with REQUIRE in CMUCL
0.433 ( 3.9 / 9.1) 5 The Violence of the Mole (was: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1)
0.361 ( 6.1 / 16.8) 15 read-right-paren
0.357 ( 0.6 / 1.6) 3 Re: Hashtables in Lisp
0.344 ( 1.3 / 3.9) 7 Re: LISP - The Month is Past
0.304 ( 2.0 / 6.5) 7 LISP - CommonLisp / Scheme - Differences
Top 10 Targets for Crossposts
=============================
Articles Newsgroup
-------- ---------
200 comp.lang.java.programmer
199 comp.lang.c++
196 comp.lang.perl.misc
12 comp.lang.scheme
3 comp.lang.python
2 comp.lang.dylan
2 comp.lang.smalltalk
1 soc.culture.singapore
1 comp.lang.prolog
1 soc.culture.british
Top 10 Crossposters
===================
Articles Address
-------- -------
36 "Marshall Spight" <msp...@dnai.com>
33 "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
33 Donald Fisk <hibou000...@enterprise.net>
30 Pascal Costanza <cost...@web.de>
28 Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
24 tassilo....@post.rwth-aachen.de
23 k...@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku)
18 Duane Rettig <du...@franz.com>
18 "Scott Palmer" <Scott....@sympatico.ca>
15 Marco Antoniotti <mar...@cs.nyu.edu>
Stefan Schmiedl
How did you collect the information?
s.
Joe Marshall
> Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts
> =================================
> 18 26.9 ( 16.8/ 10.0/ 4.4) Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
I made it to number 6!
> Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
> =================================================
> 0.440 ( 4.4 / 10.0) 18 Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
But I guess I'm not very original.
Barry Margolin
>But I guess I'm not very original.
That post had 2 original lines versus 6 quoted lines, so it reduced your
OCR.
But at least you didn't quote the entire thing just to add those two lines,
as some obscene quoters are wont to do.
--
Barry Margolin, bar...@genuity.net
Genuity, Woburn, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.
Duane Rettig
Originality is a good thing by itself, but it conflicts with
the need to provide context and the two must be balanced. I
detest reading an article which has done absolutely no quoting,
and the only way to get the context is to go back in the thread.
However, sometimes this is impossible to do simply, since the
newsreader has missed the previous article for some reason.
So google is the next step, but by that time, do I even care
what had been written? Fortunately, we have no regular posters
who make a habit of not quoting the context at all.
Perhaps "top 10" and "bottom 10" rates on OCR are not the right
dichotomy; perhaps the "good" posters are the ones in the middle,
close to .5 (balancing originality and context). So maybe one of
the interesting statistics is who comes closest to 50%. I don't
know if .5 is really the right number - perhaps the actual center
should be based on the center of a bell-curve which thus would
indicate the "style" of this partiular newsgroup, which would be
somewhat above .5
Based on .5 being good, you're really not that far off from being in
the balanced area...
--
Duane Rettig du...@franz.com Franz Inc. http://www.franz.com/
555 12th St., Suite 1450 http://www.555citycenter.com/
Oakland, Ca. 94607 Phone: (510) 452-2000; Fax: (510) 452-0182
Barry Margolin
Unfortunately, these statistics don't really show the important stuff,
which is who's responsible for the recent steep decline in the signal:noise
ratio here. We need a script that can tell the trolling and flaming from
the technical posts.
I've given up on reading any thread after its third or fourth day of
existence, because they've all degraded into flames by then.
Dorai Sitaram
I guess the statistics can't be used to hound Ilias
after all. Marco Antoniotti is the one with the
worst numbers.
Duane Rettig
[ ... ]
This was a very interesting set of numbers; they mostly ring true.
Thanks for doing this.
In order to account for statistical abberations, I would suggest
looking at this result:
> Top 10 Threads by Number of Posts
> =================================
>
> Posts Subject
> ----- -------
>
> 118 Re: becoming a better programmer
> 104 Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer
> 52 Re: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1
> 48 Re: Is there a useful distinction between "programming" and "scripting" languages?
> 37 is it ok if I quote?
> 34 ZetaLisp top level environment
> 31 LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm.
> 28 Re: read-sequence
> 19 intentional programming
> 18 sqrt and speed and fp Was Re: Numbers in Lisp
And finding out what would happen to the results in these
categories:
> Top 10 Targets for Crossposts
> =============================
> Top 10 Crossposters
> ===================
if you were to remove the top two threads (which are, in reality,
only one thread, since even if the subject changed, the cross-posting
from the first continued on to the second). I suspect that you
would find that we normally do much less cross-posting than the
current numbers suggest, and that this statistic is an abnormal blip
instead of being the norm.
Kenny Tilton
Dorai Sitaram wrote:
> I guess the statistics can't be used to hound Ilias
> after all.
We do not need statistics to hound ilias; his words suffice.
> Marco Antoniotti is the one with the
> worst numbers.
Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
:)
kenny
clinisys
Coby Beck
"Kenny Tilton" <kti...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3D90BF18...@nyc.rr.com...
>
> Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
>
Statistical analysis has shown that any characterisation of a reality that
is based on statistical analysis is false with a probability of one. (sort
of a "this statement is false" kind of thingy...I tried :)
--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")
Duane Rettig
> "Kenny Tilton" <kti...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:3D90BF18...@nyc.rr.com...
> >
> > Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
> >
>
> Statistical analysis has shown that any characterisation of a reality that
> is based on statistical analysis is false with a probability of one. (sort
> of a "this statement is false" kind of thingy...I tried :)
Did you know that 73.5% of all statistics are made up?
Erik Naggum
| - A line in the body of a post is considered to be original if it
| does *not* match the regular expression /^\s{0,3}(?:>|:|\S+>|\+\+)/.
I cannot make sense of that regexp, but it fails to capture my quoting
convention while allowing for a number of others. It should be tuned for
this newsgroup. Since I appear to produce more original content than I do,
the numbers are more than slightly off mark for the "OCR" bit.
| - The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header
| in determining the "real" e-mail address and name.
Why? This seems completely bogus to me and might indicate that it has been
tuned for a different newsgroup.
| Excluded Posters
| ================
|
| perlfaq-suggestions\@mox\.perl\.com
And if this is not a dead giveaway of the dangers of Perl reuse, nothing is.
--
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway
Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.
Christopher Browne
> Very impressive and interesting, Greg.
Actually, Chris. (Long story...)
> How did you collect the information?
There's a Perl class called News::Scan. It knows how to parse a news
spool and collect the whole bunch of statistics.
Some scripts have been constructed to, well, generate the interesting
summary.
No, it's not written in Lisp. It has the merit that it didn't take a
lot of effort to write and deploy it.
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string "ac.notelrac.teneerf@" "454aa"))
http://cbbrowne.com/info/x.html
The IETF motto: "Rough consensus *and* working code."
Christopher Browne
> Greg Bacon <gba...@cs.uah.edu> writes:
>
>> Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts
>> =================================
>> 18 26.9 ( 16.8/ 10.0/ 4.4) Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
>
> I made it to number 6!
"We want information... information... information..."
"I am not a number, I am a free variable!!!"
>> Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
>> =================================================
>> 0.440 ( 4.4 / 10.0) 18 Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
>
> But I guess I'm not very original.
We'll always consider you original.
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@ntlug.org")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/advocacy.html
Why are men like blenders?
You need one, but you're not quite sure why.
Christopher Browne
> I guess the statistics can't be used to hound Ilias
> after all. Marco Antoniotti is the one with the
> worst numbers.
It's kind of between him and Erik...
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string "moc.enworbbc@" "enworbbc"))
http://cbbrowne.com/info/unix.html
Rules of the Evil Overlord #153. "My Legions of Terror will be an
equal-opportunity employer. Conversely, when it is prophesied that no
man can defeat me, I will keep in mind the increasing number of
non-traditional gender roles." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>
Petr Swedock
> In the last exciting episode, Stefan Schmiedl <s...@xss.de> wrote::
> > How did you collect the information?
>
> There's a Perl class called News::Scan. It knows how to parse a news
> spool and collect the whole bunch of statistics.
>
> Some scripts have been constructed to, well, generate the interesting
> summary.
>
> No, it's not written in Lisp. It has the merit that it didn't take a
> lot of effort to write and deploy it.
I thought all Lisp had those same merits??? So the question again:
why perl??
=-)
Peace,
Petr
ilias
i agree with you in essence.
OCR 1.0 is 'the secure way to quote correctly'.
as i've quoted *all*, i don't risk to quote 'unfriendly', thus giving
another meaning to the words of the previous poster.
it's can be a sign of laziness, too.
OCR 0.0 is 'the secure way to quote correctly' (but for the reader
uncomfortable, as he has to look back and to create the interconnections
'manually')
Everything between this is subjective. A real rating cannot be generated
by a machine.
?
AI.
LISP.
whow!
the discussion is in-topic (or in-forum)!
Erik Naggum
| Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
83.7% of all statistics is made up on the spot.
Joe Marshall
> Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
``There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.''
This is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881) as quoted by Mark
Twain in his (Twain's) biography. Some think that Henry Labouchère
(1831-1912) may have said it first.
``He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts --- for
support rather than illumination.'' -- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
Kenny Tilton
"unless statistics lie he was
more brave than me:more blond than you."
e e cummings, "i sing of Olaf glad and big"
Marco Antoniotti
ds...@goldshoe.gte.com (Dorai Sitaram) writes:
I admit my faults and I will make penance. :)
I will try to be more on topic and to the point in the future.
My major fault is that I get too much of a zealot most of the time.
Cheers
--
Marco Antoniotti ========================================================
NYU Courant Bioinformatics Group tel. +1 - 212 - 998 3488
715 Broadway 10th Floor fax +1 - 212 - 995 4122
New York, NY 10003, USA http://bioinformatics.cat.nyu.edu
"Hello New York! We'll do what we can!"
Bill Murray in `Ghostbusters'.
Barry Margolin
>| - The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header
>| in determining the "real" e-mail address and name.
>
> Why? This seems completely bogus to me and might indicate that it has been
> tuned for a different newsgroup.
Unless we have lots of posters using Reply-to, it probably doesn't make a
difference.
Dorai Sitaram
Marco Antoniotti <mar...@cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>ds...@goldshoe.gte.com (Dorai Sitaram) writes:
>
>> I guess the statistics can't be used to hound Ilias
>> after all. Marco Antoniotti is the one with the
>> worst numbers.
>
>I admit my faults and I will make penance. :)
>
>I will try to be more on topic and to the point in the future.
>
>My major fault is that I get too much of a zealot most of the time.
Quit being a mealy-mouthed martyr. I was saying
that "statistics" shouldn't be used to hound people,
which was what Tim Bradshaw was doing in his "toxicity
of trolls" thread.
I don't care how, and how often, you post to cll, and I
think it would be equally irrational to use statistics
against you. It is true that I find ilias's
courageously exploratory posts much more charming than
your pseudo-Socratic know-it-all prattle, but that's
just purely personal. :-)
Christopher Browne
It may have required a barrel-load of /someone else's/ time and
effort.
It required minimial amounts of /my/ time.
--
(concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@cbbrowne.com")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/
"Being really good at C++ is like being really good at using rocks to
sharpen sticks." -- Thant Tessman
Marco Antoniotti
ds...@goldshoe.gte.com (Dorai Sitaram) writes:
> In article <y6c1y7i...@octagon.valis.nyu.edu>,
> Marco Antoniotti <mar...@cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
> >
...
> >My major fault is that I get too much of a zealot most of the time.
>
> Quit being a mealy-mouthed martyr. I was saying
> that "statistics" shouldn't be used to hound people,
> which was what Tim Bradshaw was doing in his "toxicity
> of trolls" thread.
Well, I was doing some introspection as soon as I saw the
statistics.
> I don't care how, and how often, you post to cll, and I
> think it would be equally irrational to use statistics
> against you. It is true that I find ilias's
> courageously exploratory posts much more charming than
> your pseudo-Socratic know-it-all prattle, but that's
> just purely personal. :-)
Touche!
Tim Bradshaw
> Quit being a mealy-mouthed martyr. I was saying
> that "statistics" shouldn't be used to hound people,
> which was what Tim Bradshaw was doing in his "toxicity
> of trolls" thread.
However I was using different figures, in particular much simpler ones
(I don't trust original-content stuff too much). If you think that
trolls don't do a lot of damage I'd like to see an argument for that,
either statistical or not. I guess you could argue that our current
troll is, in fact, not a troll and that all these threads are useful,
but that probably should not be used as an argument as it's so clearly
a matter of opinion - the only way to decide the point would be to
vote.
--tim
sv0f
<kti...@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
"With N free parameters, I can fit an elephant."
The version I saw initially had N=7, but I have seen
other variants.
quasi
> ``There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.''
>
>This is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881) as quoted by Mark
>Twain in his (Twain's) biography. Some think that Henry Labouchère
>(1831-1912) may have said it first.
quoted, you say? (grin)
peace,
quasi
--
Think.
Joe Marshall
Yes. And I neglected to ask permission of Disraeli, Twain,
Labouchère, or their assigns or estates.
sv0f
>quasi <quas...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> >
>> >This is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881) as quoted by Mark
>> >Twain in his (Twain's) biography. Some think that Henry Labouchère
>> >(1831-1912) may have said it first.
>>
>> quoted, you say? (grin)
>
>Yes. And I neglected to ask permission of Disraeli, Twain,
>Labouchère, or their assigns or estates.
Don't worry. They (or their assigns or estates) will send you
email if they have a problem with your quoting.
Christian Lynbech
don't call people who don't understand statistics idiots. take their money.
Not really about statistics, but it turned up in my search (and may
serve as a comment to other threads):
From: funk...@midwinter.com
Subject: A morality tale of Perl versus Python
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 19:30:01 PST
This has been percolating in the back of my mind for a while. It's
a scene from _The Empire Strikes Back_, reinterpreted to serve a
valuable moral lesson for aspiring programmers.
___________________________________________________________________________
EXTERIOR: DAGOBAH -- DAY
With Yoda strapped to his back, Luke climbs up one of the
many thick vines that grow in the swamp until he reaches the
Dagobah statistics lab. Panting heavily, he continues his
exercises -- grepping, installing new packages, logging in as
root, and writing replacements for two-year-old shell scripts
in Python.
YODA: Code! Yes. A programmer's strength flows from code maintainability.
But beware of Perl. Terse syntax... more than one way to do it...
default variables. The dark side of code maintainability are they.
Easily they flow, quick to join you when code you write. If once
you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny,
consume you it will.
LUKE: Is Perl better than Python?
YODA: No... no... no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
LUKE: But how will I know why Python is better than Perl?
YODA: You will know. When your code you try to read six months from
now.
___________________________________________________________________________
--
Selected by Jim Griffith. MAIL your joke to fu...@netfunny.com.
Attribute the joke's source if at all possible. A Daemon will auto-reply.
If you don't need an auto-reply, submit to r...@netfunny.com instead.
For the full submission guidelines, see http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/
This joke's link: http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/99/Nov/perl.html
------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Christian Lynbech | Ericsson Telebit, Skanderborgvej 232, DK-8260 Viby J
Phone: +45 8938 5244 | email: christia...@ted.ericsson.se
Fax: +45 8938 5101 | web: www.ericsson.com
------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual.
- pet...@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Greg Bacon
beginning at 22 Sep 2002 06:43:00 GMT and ending at
29 Sep 2002 03:51:34 GMT.
Notes
=====
- A line in the body of a post is considered to be original if it
does *not* match the regular expression /^\s{0,3}(?:>|:|\S+>|\+\+)/.
- All text after the last cut line (/^-- $/) in the body is
considered to be the author's signature.
- The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header
in determining the "real" e-mail address and name.
- Original Content Rating is the ratio of the original content volume
to the total body volume.
- Please send all comments to Greg Bacon <gba...@cs.uah.edu>.
Excluded Posters
================
perlfaq-suggestions\@mox\.perl\.com
Totals
======
Posters: 174
Articles: 789 (246 with cutlined signatures)
Threads: 73
Volume generated: 1725.8 kb
- headers: 761.5 kb (13,666 lines)
- bodies: 917.8 kb (26,642 lines)
- original: 551.5 kb (17,651 lines)
- signatures: 45.7 kb (940 lines)
Original Content Rating: 0.601
Averages
========
Posts per poster: 4.5
median: 2.0 posts
mode: 1 post - 61 posters
s: 9.5 posts
Posts per thread: 10.8
median: 4 posts
mode: 1 post - 19 threads
s: 17.8 posts
Message size: 2239.8 bytes
- header: 988.3 bytes (17.3 lines)
- body: 1191.1 bytes (33.8 lines)
- original: 715.8 bytes (22.4 lines)
- signature: 59.3 bytes (1.2 lines)
Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts
=================================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Posts Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Address
----- -------------------------- -------
96 271.0 (100.7/170.2/ 73.5) ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
47 121.3 ( 42.8/ 70.0/ 70.0) Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no>
30 62.0 ( 28.9/ 33.1/ 25.6) Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
19 33.2 ( 19.0/ 14.2/ 6.7) Brian Palmer <br...@invalid.dom>
19 41.7 ( 17.7/ 19.1/ 11.2) Christopher Browne <cbbr...@acm.org>
19 46.3 ( 20.4/ 24.7/ 12.0) Pascal Costanza <cost...@web.de>
18 44.3 ( 19.9/ 20.7/ 13.2) Barry Margolin <bar...@genuity.net>
17 26.7 ( 15.7/ 10.9/ 4.6) Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
17 50.3 ( 18.3/ 32.0/ 12.0) "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
16 26.6 ( 16.8/ 9.9/ 6.3) Will Deakin <aniso...@hotmail.com>
These posters accounted for 37.8% of all articles.
Top 10 Posters by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Address
-------------------------- ----- -------
271.0 (100.7/170.2/ 73.5) 96 ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
121.3 ( 42.8/ 70.0/ 70.0) 47 Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no>
62.0 ( 28.9/ 33.1/ 25.6) 30 Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
50.3 ( 18.3/ 32.0/ 12.0) 17 "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
46.3 ( 20.4/ 24.7/ 12.0) 19 Pascal Costanza <cost...@web.de>
44.3 ( 19.9/ 20.7/ 13.2) 18 Barry Margolin <bar...@genuity.net>
41.7 ( 17.7/ 19.1/ 11.2) 19 Christopher Browne <cbbr...@acm.org>
33.2 ( 19.0/ 14.2/ 6.7) 19 Brian Palmer <br...@invalid.dom>
30.6 ( 8.9/ 21.7/ 15.2) 10 k...@ashi.footprints.net
28.7 ( 10.3/ 16.8/ 7.1) 8 Duane Rettig <du...@franz.com>
These posters accounted for 42.3% of the total volume.
Top 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
1.000 ( 70.0 / 70.0) 47 Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no>
0.957 ( 14.8 / 15.5) 12 Bulent Murtezaoglu <b...@acm.org>
0.895 ( 5.8 / 6.5) 5 Rodrigo Cunha <rn...@netcabo.pt>
0.850 ( 6.1 / 7.2) 7 Fred Gilham <gil...@snapdragon.csl.sri.com>
0.817 ( 2.8 / 3.4) 8 ozan s yigit <o...@blue.cs.yorku.ca>
0.799 ( 2.9 / 3.6) 5 jhb...@ai.mit.edu (Jeremy H. Brown)
0.798 ( 9.4 / 11.7) 7 Dave Bakhash <ca...@alum.mit.edu>
0.793 ( 5.0 / 6.3) 6 raf...@mediaone.net (Raffael Cavallaro)
0.774 ( 25.6 / 33.1) 30 Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
0.772 ( 3.6 / 4.7) 5 Friedrich Dominicus <fr...@q-software-solutions.com>
Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.472 ( 6.7 / 14.2) 19 Brian Palmer <br...@invalid.dom>
0.471 ( 1.6 / 3.3) 6 Jacek Generowicz <jacek.ge...@cern.ch>
0.432 ( 73.5 /170.2) 96 ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
0.426 ( 4.6 / 10.9) 17 Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
0.426 ( 7.1 / 16.8) 8 Duane Rettig <du...@franz.com>
0.376 ( 12.0 / 32.0) 17 "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
0.356 ( 3.1 / 8.7) 6 Raymond Wiker <Raymon...@fast.no>
0.311 ( 2.3 / 7.3) 6 ds...@gte.com
0.292 ( 3.9 / 13.5) 10 Marco Antoniotti <mar...@cs.nyu.edu>
0.241 ( 2.9 / 12.1) 9 jacekpo...@supanet.com
Top 10 Threads by Number of Posts
=================================
Posts Subject
----- -------
81 The toxicity of trolls
64 Lisp in Python
59 Re: becoming a better programmer
48 Re: Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer
39 LISP - R5RS - John McCarthy
34 ZetaLisp top level environment
31 Statistics for comp.lang.lisp
28 Question: macros and lambdas
28 Re: "Well, I want to switch over to replace EMACS LISP with Guile."
22 This newsgroup...
Top 10 Threads by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Subject
-------------------------- ----- -------
178.4 ( 74.6/ 97.8/ 71.5) 81 The toxicity of trolls
158.3 ( 58.7/ 98.1/ 48.4) 48 Re: Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer
135.1 ( 63.7/ 66.4/ 40.5) 64 Lisp in Python
133.2 ( 69.9/ 58.2/ 26.0) 59 Re: becoming a better programmer
71.0 ( 26.2/ 42.7/ 30.2) 28 Question: macros and lambdas
68.5 ( 39.6/ 28.6/ 12.3) 39 LISP - R5RS - John McCarthy
67.8 ( 31.1/ 34.2/ 25.3) 28 Re: "Well, I want to switch over to replace EMACS LISP with Guile."
64.4 ( 20.7/ 43.5/ 18.2) 19 Re: LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm. - [#V0.3]
58.7 ( 26.7/ 28.8/ 20.4) 31 Statistics for comp.lang.lisp
55.0 ( 30.8/ 23.3/ 16.5) 34 ZetaLisp top level environment
Top 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of three posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.935 ( 4.5/ 4.8) 3 ECL v0.6 released
0.894 ( 3.1/ 3.5) 4 LISP - The Entry Point
0.872 ( 7.0/ 8.1) 3 Re: Type and Optimize declarations and speedup (was: Re: is it ok if I quote?)
0.863 ( 3.6/ 4.1) 5 Scope of (in-package)
0.786 ( 0.9/ 1.1) 3 What is professional way of commenting and indenting in lisp?
0.768 ( 2.5/ 3.3) 4 packages,namespaces,...
0.762 ( 16.3/ 21.4) 12 CLOS is hard. Let's go shopping (Was Re: Lisp in Python)
0.757 ( 2.2/ 2.9) 7 if x in (list 1 2 3)
0.753 ( 12.5/ 16.6) 18 mysql + cmulisp + xemacs + ...
0.750 ( 5.9/ 7.9) 4 backquote expansion in LW
Bottom 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of three posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.430 ( 12.3 / 28.6) 39 LISP - R5RS - John McCarthy
0.418 ( 18.2 / 43.5) 19 Re: LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm. - [#V0.3]
0.411 ( 1.3 / 3.3) 5 Re: The toxicity of trolls - toxicity of professionals
0.378 ( 1.4 / 3.7) 5 Re: Lisp for Linux
0.359 ( 0.6 / 1.7) 3 Re: LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm.
0.348 ( 0.4 / 1.1) 4 friday
0.347 ( 0.4 / 1.3) 3 ILIAS the TROLL (was Re: LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm. - [#V0.4])
0.337 ( 6.7 / 19.8) 13 Re: read-right-paren
0.221 ( 1.0 / 4.7) 3 Re: LISP - CommonLisp / Scheme - Differences
0.145 ( 1.8 / 12.5) 4 Re: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1
Top 10 Targets for Crossposts
=============================
Articles Newsgroup
-------- ---------
97 comp.lang.java.programmer
96 comp.lang.c++
94 comp.lang.perl.misc
48 comp.lang.scheme
7 alt.folklore.computers
5 comp.lang.prolog
4 comp.lang.pop
1 comp.lang.functional
1 comp.lang.python
1 soc.culture.singapore
Top 10 Crossposters
===================
Articles Address
-------- -------
48 "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
28 ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
15 Pascal Costanza <cost...@web.de>
13 Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
12 Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi>
12 "Marshall Spight" <msp...@dnai.com>
11 Donald Fisk <hibou000...@enterprise.net>
9 mda...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Danish)
7 han...@schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
6 jvm <j...@fiberia.is.no.more>
Christopher Browne
29 Sep 2002 13:45:02 GMT.
Notes
=====
- A line in the body of a post is considered to be original if it
does *not* match the regular expression /^\s{0,3}(?:>|:|\S+>|\+\+)/.
- All text after the last cut line (/^-- $/) in the body is
considered to be the author's signature.
- The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header
in determining the "real" e-mail address and name.
- Original Content Rating is the ratio of the original content volume
to the total body volume.
- Please send all comments to Christopher Browne <cbbr...@acm.org>
Excluded Posters
================
perlfaq-suggestions\@mox\.perl\.com
Totals
======
Posters: 175
Articles: 800 (246 with cutlined signatures)
Threads: 76
Volume generated: 1762.4 kb
- headers: 770.7 kb (13,875 lines)
- bodies: 944.4 kb (27,274 lines)
- original: 581.0 kb (18,329 lines)
- signatures: 46.5 kb (945 lines)
Original Content Rating: 0.615
Averages
========
Posts per poster: 4.6
median: 2 posts
mode: 1 post - 64 posters
s: 9.7 posts
Posts per thread: 10.5
median: 4.0 posts
mode: 1 post - 19 threads
s: 17.4 posts
Message size: 2255.9 bytes
- header: 986.6 bytes (17.3 lines)
- body: 1208.9 bytes (34.1 lines)
- original: 743.7 bytes (22.9 lines)
- signature: 59.5 bytes (1.2 lines)
Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts
=================================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Posts Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Address
----- -------------------------- -------
98 277.2 (102.8/174.4/ 76.4) ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
50 139.1 ( 46.1/ 83.4/ 83.4) Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no>
33 70.5 ( 32.1/ 38.4/ 29.7) Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
19 33.2 ( 19.0/ 14.2/ 6.7) Brian Palmer <br...@invalid.dom>
19 41.7 ( 17.7/ 19.1/ 11.2) Christopher Browne <cbbr...@acm.org>
18 44.3 ( 19.9/ 20.7/ 13.2) Barry Margolin <bar...@genuity.net>
17 26.7 ( 15.7/ 10.9/ 4.6) Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
17 50.3 ( 18.3/ 32.0/ 12.0) "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
17 40.8 ( 17.7/ 21.8/ 11.2) Pascal Costanza <cost...@web.de>
17 28.9 ( 17.8/ 11.1/ 7.0) Will Deakin <aniso...@hotmail.com>
These posters accounted for 38.1% of all articles.
Top 10 Posters by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Address
-------------------------- ----- -------
277.2 (102.8/174.4/ 76.4) 98 ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
139.1 ( 46.1/ 83.4/ 83.4) 50 Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no>
70.5 ( 32.1/ 38.4/ 29.7) 33 Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
50.3 ( 18.3/ 32.0/ 12.0) 17 "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
44.3 ( 19.9/ 20.7/ 13.2) 18 Barry Margolin <bar...@genuity.net>
41.7 ( 17.7/ 19.1/ 11.2) 19 Christopher Browne <cbbr...@acm.org>
40.8 ( 17.7/ 21.8/ 11.2) 17 Pascal Costanza <cost...@web.de>
33.2 ( 19.0/ 14.2/ 6.7) 19 Brian Palmer <br...@invalid.dom>
30.6 ( 8.9/ 21.7/ 15.2) 10 k...@ashi.footprints.net
28.9 ( 17.8/ 11.1/ 7.0) 17 Will Deakin <aniso...@hotmail.com>
These posters accounted for 42.9% of the total volume.
Top 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
1.000 ( 2.5 / 2.5) 5 gnui...@hotmail.com (gnuist006)
1.000 ( 83.4 / 83.4) 50 Erik Naggum <er...@naggum.no>
0.957 ( 14.8 / 15.5) 12 Bulent Murtezaoglu <b...@acm.org>
0.895 ( 5.8 / 6.5) 5 Rodrigo Cunha <rn...@netcabo.pt>
0.850 ( 6.1 / 7.2) 7 Fred Gilham <gil...@snapdragon.csl.sri.com>
0.817 ( 2.8 / 3.4) 8 ozan s yigit <o...@blue.cs.yorku.ca>
0.799 ( 2.9 / 3.6) 5 jhb...@ai.mit.edu (Jeremy H. Brown)
0.798 ( 9.4 / 11.7) 7 Dave Bakhash <ca...@alum.mit.edu>
0.793 ( 5.0 / 6.3) 6 raf...@mediaone.net (Raffael Cavallaro)
0.775 ( 29.7 / 38.4) 33 Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.467 ( 0.7 / 1.6) 5 Aleksandr Skobelev <publi...@list.ru>
0.464 ( 4.4 / 9.4) 7 Tim Josling <t...@melbpc.org.au>
0.438 ( 76.4 /174.4) 98 ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
0.426 ( 4.6 / 10.9) 17 Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
0.424 ( 4.7 / 11.1) 7 Duane Rettig <du...@franz.com>
0.376 ( 12.0 / 32.0) 17 "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
0.356 ( 3.1 / 8.7) 6 Raymond Wiker <Raymon...@fast.no>
0.311 ( 2.3 / 7.3) 6 ds...@gte.com
0.292 ( 3.9 / 13.5) 10 Marco Antoniotti <mar...@cs.nyu.edu>
0.241 ( 2.9 / 12.1) 9 jacekpo...@supanet.com
Top 10 Threads by Number of Posts
=================================
Posts Subject
----- -------
83 The toxicity of trolls
64 Lisp in Python
58 Re: becoming a better programmer
40 Re: Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer
39 LISP - R5RS - John McCarthy
34 ZetaLisp top level environment
33 Re: "Well, I want to switch over to replace EMACS LISP with Guile."
32 Statistics for comp.lang.lisp
28 Question: macros and lambdas
23 This newsgroup...
Top 10 Threads by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Subject
-------------------------- ----- -------
184.7 ( 76.6/101.9/ 75.3) 83 The toxicity of trolls
135.1 ( 63.7/ 66.4/ 40.5) 64 Lisp in Python
131.6 ( 48.6/ 81.7/ 40.8) 40 Re: Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer
130.3 ( 68.8/ 56.4/ 24.3) 58 Re: becoming a better programmer
86.1 ( 37.1/ 45.9/ 34.4) 33 Re: "Well, I want to switch over to replace EMACS LISP with Guile."
71.0 ( 26.2/ 42.7/ 30.2) 28 Question: macros and lambdas
68.5 ( 39.6/ 28.6/ 12.3) 39 LISP - R5RS - John McCarthy
67.9 ( 27.1/ 37.6/ 29.2) 32 Statistics for comp.lang.lisp
62.0 ( 19.8/ 42.0/ 17.5) 18 Re: LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm. - [#V0.3]
55.0 ( 30.8/ 23.3/ 16.5) 34 ZetaLisp top level environment
Top 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of three posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.935 ( 4.5/ 4.8) 3 ECL v0.6 released
0.872 ( 7.0/ 8.1) 3 Re: Type and Optimize declarations and speedup (was: Re: is it ok if I quote?)
0.786 ( 0.9/ 1.1) 3 What is professional way of commenting and indenting in lisp?
0.786 ( 4.2/ 5.4) 6 Scope of (in-package)
0.784 ( 13.3/ 16.9) 4 explanation
0.776 ( 29.2/ 37.6) 32 Statistics for comp.lang.lisp
0.768 ( 2.5/ 3.3) 4 packages,namespaces,...
0.757 ( 2.2/ 2.9) 7 if x in (list 1 2 3)
0.753 ( 12.5/ 16.6) 18 mysql + cmulisp + xemacs + ...
0.750 ( 5.9/ 7.9) 4 backquote expansion in LW
Bottom 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of three posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.431 ( 24.3 / 56.4) 58 Re: becoming a better programmer
0.430 ( 12.3 / 28.6) 39 LISP - R5RS - John McCarthy
0.417 ( 17.5 / 42.0) 18 Re: LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm. - [#V0.3]
0.411 ( 1.3 / 3.3) 5 Re: The toxicity of trolls - toxicity of professionals
0.359 ( 0.6 / 1.7) 3 Re: LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm.
0.348 ( 0.4 / 1.1) 4 friday
0.347 ( 0.4 / 1.3) 3 ILIAS the TROLL (was Re: LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm. - [#V0.4])
0.337 ( 6.7 / 19.8) 13 Re: read-right-paren
0.221 ( 1.0 / 4.7) 3 Re: LISP - CommonLisp / Scheme - Differences
0.145 ( 1.8 / 12.5) 4 Re: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1
Top 10 Targets for Crossposts
=============================
Articles Newsgroup
-------- ---------
89 comp.lang.java.programmer
88 comp.lang.c++
86 comp.lang.perl.misc
48 comp.lang.scheme
7 alt.folklore.computers
5 comp.lang.prolog
5 gnu.emacs.help
4 comp.unix.shell
4 comp.unix.programmer
4 comp.lang.pop
Top 10 Crossposters
===================
Articles Address
-------- -------
48 "Dale King" <Ki...@TCE.com>
28 ilias <at_...@pontos.net>
13 Tim Bradshaw <t...@cley.com>
12 Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi>
12 "Marshall Spight" <msp...@dnai.com>
11 Donald Fisk <hibou000...@enterprise.net>
9 mda...@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew Danish)
9 gnui...@hotmail.com (gnuist006)
9 Pascal Costanza <cost...@web.de>
7 han...@schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)