Following is a summary of articles spanning a 7 day period, beginning at 17 Sep 2002 16:21:24 GMT and ending at 24 Sep 2002 16:11:47 GMT.
Notes =====
- A line in the body of a post is considered to be original if it does *not* match the regular expression /^\s{0,3}(?:>|:|\S+>|\+\+)/. - All text after the last cut line (/^-- $/) in the body is considered to be the author's signature. - The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header in determining the "real" e-mail address and name. - Original Content Rating is the ratio of the original content volume to the total body volume. - Please send all comments to Greg Bacon <gba...@cs.uah.edu>.
Top 10 Threads by Number of Posts =================================
Posts Subject ----- -------
118 Re: becoming a better programmer 104 Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer 52 Re: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1 48 Re: Is there a useful distinction between "programming" and "scripting" languages? 37 is it ok if I quote? 34 ZetaLisp top level environment 31 LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm. 28 Re: read-sequence 19 intentional programming 18 sqrt and speed and fp Was Re: Numbers in Lisp
Greg Bacon <gba...@cs.uah.edu> writes: > Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts > ================================= > 18 26.9 ( 16.8/ 10.0/ 4.4) Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
I made it to number 6!
> Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts) > ================================================= > 0.440 ( 4.4 / 10.0) 18 Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
In article <elbjfhy2....@ccs.neu.edu>, Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote:
>But I guess I'm not very original.
That post had 2 original lines versus 6 quoted lines, so it reduced your OCR.
But at least you didn't quote the entire thing just to add those two lines, as some obscene quoters are wont to do.
-- Barry Margolin, bar...@genuity.net Genuity, Woburn, MA *** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups. Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.
Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu> writes: > Greg Bacon <gba...@cs.uah.edu> writes:
> > Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts > > ================================= > > 18 26.9 ( 16.8/ 10.0/ 4.4) Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
> I made it to number 6!
> > Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts) > > ================================================= > > 0.440 ( 4.4 / 10.0) 18 Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
> But I guess I'm not very original.
Originality is a good thing by itself, but it conflicts with the need to provide context and the two must be balanced. I detest reading an article which has done absolutely no quoting, and the only way to get the context is to go back in the thread. However, sometimes this is impossible to do simply, since the newsreader has missed the previous article for some reason. So google is the next step, but by that time, do I even care what had been written? Fortunately, we have no regular posters who make a habit of not quoting the context at all.
Perhaps "top 10" and "bottom 10" rates on OCR are not the right dichotomy; perhaps the "good" posters are the ones in the middle, close to .5 (balancing originality and context). So maybe one of the interesting statistics is who comes closest to 50%. I don't know if .5 is really the right number - perhaps the actual center should be based on the center of a bell-curve which thus would indicate the "style" of this partiular newsgroup, which would be somewhat above .5
Based on .5 being good, you're really not that far off from being in the balanced area...
In article <amq32d$7bjj...@ID-125932.news.dfncis.de>, Greg Bacon <gba...@cs.uah.edu> wrote:
>Following is a summary of articles spanning a 7 day period,
Unfortunately, these statistics don't really show the important stuff, which is who's responsible for the recent steep decline in the signal:noise ratio here. We need a script that can tell the trolling and flaming from the technical posts.
I've given up on reading any thread after its third or fourth day of existence, because they've all degraded into flames by then.
-- Barry Margolin, bar...@genuity.net Genuity, Woburn, MA *** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups. Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.
> Top 10 Threads by Number of Posts > =================================
> Posts Subject > ----- -------
> 118 Re: becoming a better programmer > 104 Use Java! Was: becoming a better programmer > 52 Re: LISP - 2 exponent 0 = 1 > 48 Re: Is there a useful distinction between "programming" and "scripting" languages? > 37 is it ok if I quote? > 34 ZetaLisp top level environment > 31 LISP - [SPECS ERR] - Backquote - please confirm. > 28 Re: read-sequence > 19 intentional programming > 18 sqrt and speed and fp Was Re: Numbers in Lisp
And finding out what would happen to the results in these categories:
> Top 10 Targets for Crossposts > ============================= > Top 10 Crossposters > ===================
if you were to remove the top two threads (which are, in reality, only one thread, since even if the subject changed, the cross-posting from the first continued on to the second). I suspect that you would find that we normally do much less cross-posting than the current numbers suggest, and that this statistic is an abnormal blip instead of being the norm.
> Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
Statistical analysis has shown that any characterisation of a reality that is based on statistical analysis is false with a probability of one. (sort of a "this statement is false" kind of thingy...I tried :)
> > Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
> Statistical analysis has shown that any characterisation of a reality that > is based on statistical analysis is false with a probability of one. (sort > of a "this statement is false" kind of thingy...I tried :)
Did you know that 73.5% of all statistics are made up?
* Greg Bacon | - A line in the body of a post is considered to be original if it | does *not* match the regular expression /^\s{0,3}(?:>|:|\S+>|\+\+)/.
I cannot make sense of that regexp, but it fails to capture my quoting convention while allowing for a number of others. It should be tuned for this newsgroup. Since I appear to produce more original content than I do, the numbers are more than slightly off mark for the "OCR" bit.
| - The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header | in determining the "real" e-mail address and name.
Why? This seems completely bogus to me and might indicate that it has been tuned for a different newsgroup.
In the last exciting episode, Stefan Schmiedl <s...@xss.de> wrote::
> Very impressive and interesting, Greg.
Actually, Chris. (Long story...)
> How did you collect the information?
There's a Perl class called News::Scan. It knows how to parse a news spool and collect the whole bunch of statistics.
Some scripts have been constructed to, well, generate the interesting summary.
No, it's not written in Lisp. It has the merit that it didn't take a lot of effort to write and deploy it. -- (reverse (concatenate 'string "ac.notelrac.teneerf@" "454aa")) http://cbbrowne.com/info/x.html The IETF motto: "Rough consensus *and* working code."
>> Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts) >> ================================================= >> 0.440 ( 4.4 / 10.0) 18 Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
> But I guess I'm not very original.
We'll always consider you original. -- (concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@ntlug.org") http://cbbrowne.com/info/advocacy.html Why are men like blenders? You need one, but you're not quite sure why.
In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, d...@goldshoe.gte.com (Dorai Sitaram) transmitted:
> I guess the statistics can't be used to hound Ilias > after all. Marco Antoniotti is the one with the > worst numbers.
It's kind of between him and Erik... -- (reverse (concatenate 'string "moc.enworbbc@" "enworbbc")) http://cbbrowne.com/info/unix.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #153. "My Legions of Terror will be an equal-opportunity employer. Conversely, when it is prophesied that no man can defeat me, I will keep in mind the increasing number of non-traditional gender roles." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>
Christopher Browne <cbbro...@acm.org> writes: > In the last exciting episode, Stefan Schmiedl <s...@xss.de> wrote:: > > How did you collect the information?
> There's a Perl class called News::Scan. It knows how to parse a news > spool and collect the whole bunch of statistics.
> Some scripts have been constructed to, well, generate the interesting > summary.
> No, it's not written in Lisp. It has the merit that it didn't take a > lot of effort to write and deploy it.
I thought all Lisp had those same merits??? So the question again: why perl??
>>>Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts >>>================================= >>> 18 26.9 ( 16.8/ 10.0/ 4.4) Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
>>I made it to number 6!
>>>Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts) >>>================================================= >>>0.440 ( 4.4 / 10.0) 18 Joe Marshall <j...@ccs.neu.edu>
>>But I guess I'm not very original.
> Originality is a good thing by itself, but it conflicts with > the need to provide context and the two must be balanced. I > detest reading an article which has done absolutely no quoting, > and the only way to get the context is to go back in the thread. > However, sometimes this is impossible to do simply, since the > newsreader has missed the previous article for some reason. > So google is the next step, but by that time, do I even care > what had been written? Fortunately, we have no regular posters > who make a habit of not quoting the context at all.
> Perhaps "top 10" and "bottom 10" rates on OCR are not the right > dichotomy; perhaps the "good" posters are the ones in the middle, > close to .5 (balancing originality and context). So maybe one of > the interesting statistics is who comes closest to 50%. I don't > know if .5 is really the right number - perhaps the actual center > should be based on the center of a bell-curve which thus would > indicate the "style" of this partiular newsgroup, which would be > somewhat above .5
> Based on .5 being good, you're really not that far off from being in > the balanced area...
i agree with you in essence.
OCR 1.0 is 'the secure way to quote correctly'.
as i've quoted *all*, i don't risk to quote 'unfriendly', thus giving another meaning to the words of the previous poster.
it's can be a sign of laziness, too.
OCR 0.0 is 'the secure way to quote correctly' (but for the reader uncomfortable, as he has to look back and to create the interconnections 'manually')
Everything between this is subjective. A real rating cannot be generated by a machine.
Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes: > Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
``There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.''
This is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881) as quoted by Mark Twain in his (Twain's) biography. Some think that Henry Labouchère (1831-1912) may have said it first.
``He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts --- for support rather than illumination.'' -- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
Joe Marshall wrote: > Kenny Tilton <ktil...@nyc.rr.com> writes:
>>Anyone have a good line about the value of statistics?
> ``There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.''
> This is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881) as quoted by Mark > Twain in his (Twain's) biography. Some think that Henry Labouchère > (1831-1912) may have said it first.
> ``He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts --- for > support rather than illumination.'' -- Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
d...@goldshoe.gte.com (Dorai Sitaram) writes: > I guess the statistics can't be used to hound Ilias > after all. Marco Antoniotti is the one with the > worst numbers.
I admit my faults and I will make penance. :)
I will try to be more on topic and to the point in the future.
My major fault is that I get too much of a zealot most of the time.
Cheers
-- Marco Antoniotti ======================================================== NYU Courant Bioinformatics Group tel. +1 - 212 - 998 3488 715 Broadway 10th Floor fax +1 - 212 - 995 4122 New York, NY 10003, USA http://bioinformatics.cat.nyu.edu "Hello New York! We'll do what we can!" Bill Murray in `Ghostbusters'.
In article <3241902237839...@naggum.no>, Erik Naggum <e...@naggum.no> wrote:
>| - The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header >| in determining the "real" e-mail address and name.
> Why? This seems completely bogus to me and might indicate that it has been > tuned for a different newsgroup.
Unless we have lots of posters using Reply-to, it probably doesn't make a difference.
-- Barry Margolin, bar...@genuity.net Genuity, Woburn, MA *** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups. Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group.
>> I guess the statistics can't be used to hound Ilias >> after all. Marco Antoniotti is the one with the >> worst numbers.
>I admit my faults and I will make penance. :)
>I will try to be more on topic and to the point in the future.
>My major fault is that I get too much of a zealot most of the time.
Quit being a mealy-mouthed martyr. I was saying that "statistics" shouldn't be used to hound people, which was what Tim Bradshaw was doing in his "toxicity of trolls" thread.
I don't care how, and how often, you post to cll, and I think it would be equally irrational to use statistics against you. It is true that I find ilias's courageously exploratory posts much more charming than your pseudo-Socratic know-it-all prattle, but that's just purely personal. :-)
>> In the last exciting episode, Stefan Schmiedl <s...@xss.de> wrote::
>> > How did you collect the information?
>> There's a Perl class called News::Scan. It knows how to parse a news >> spool and collect the whole bunch of statistics.
>> Some scripts have been constructed to, well, generate the interesting >> summary.
>> No, it's not written in Lisp. It has the merit that it didn't take a >> lot of effort to write and deploy it.
> I thought all Lisp had those same merits??? So the question again: > why perl??
> =-)
It may have required a barrel-load of /someone else's/ time and effort.
It required minimial amounts of /my/ time. -- (concatenate 'string "cbbrowne" "@cbbrowne.com") http://cbbrowne.com/info/ "Being really good at C++ is like being really good at using rocks to sharpen sticks." -- Thant Tessman
d...@goldshoe.gte.com (Dorai Sitaram) writes: > In article <y6c1y7i5f6p....@octagon.valis.nyu.edu>, > Marco Antoniotti <marc...@cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
...
> >My major fault is that I get too much of a zealot most of the time.
> Quit being a mealy-mouthed martyr. I was saying > that "statistics" shouldn't be used to hound people, > which was what Tim Bradshaw was doing in his "toxicity > of trolls" thread.
Well, I was doing some introspection as soon as I saw the statistics.
> I don't care how, and how often, you post to cll, and I > think it would be equally irrational to use statistics > against you. It is true that I find ilias's > courageously exploratory posts much more charming than > your pseudo-Socratic know-it-all prattle, but that's > just purely personal. :-)
Touche!
Cheers
-- Marco Antoniotti ======================================================== NYU Courant Bioinformatics Group tel. +1 - 212 - 998 3488 715 Broadway 10th Floor fax +1 - 212 - 995 4122 New York, NY 10003, USA http://bioinformatics.cat.nyu.edu "Hello New York! We'll do what we can!" Bill Murray in `Ghostbusters'.
