Practical Common Lisp to stay on web
Peter Seibel
that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical Common Lisp_
online in perpetuity. I hope that having the book freely available
will help bring new people to Lisp. So please spread the word--if you
know someone who is mildly interested in Lisp, point them to the web
site; if you have a web site of your own with links to other Lisp
resources, please consider adding a link to the book's web site[1]; if
you're a blogger, blog away!
-Peter
P.S. The chapters currently on the web are still the pre-copy-edit
drafts. Some time in the next couple of weeks I'll backport all the
changes and fixes made in subsequent drafts so the web version will
have the same content as the printed version.
[1] <http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/>
--
Peter Seibel pe...@gigamonkeys.com
Lisp is the red pill. -- John Fraser, comp.lang.lisp
Artie Gold
> I have on my desk a fully-executed addendum to my contract with Apress
> that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical Common Lisp_
> online in perpetuity. I hope that having the book freely available
> will help bring new people to Lisp. So please spread the word--if you
> know someone who is mildly interested in Lisp, point them to the web
> site; if you have a web site of your own with links to other Lisp
> resources, please consider adding a link to the book's web site[1]; if
> you're a blogger, blog away!
>
> -Peter
>
> P.S. The chapters currently on the web are still the pre-copy-edit
> drafts. Some time in the next couple of weeks I'll backport all the
> changes and fixes made in subsequent drafts so the web version will
> have the same content as the printed version.
>
> [1] <http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/>
>
--ag
--
Artie Gold -- Austin, Texas
http://it-matters.blogspot.com (new post 12/5)
http://www.cafepress.com/goldsays
M Jared Finder
> I have on my desk a fully-executed addendum to my contract with Apress
> that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical Common Lisp_
> online in perpetuity. I hope that having the book freely available
> will help bring new people to Lisp. So please spread the word--if you
> know someone who is mildly interested in Lisp, point them to the web
> site; if you have a web site of your own with links to other Lisp
> resources, please consider adding a link to the book's web site[1]; if
> you're a blogger, blog away!
That's great to hear! I find myself referencing your book when the
Hyperspec is just too convoluted. On the other hand, your book always
has a nice explanation of its subject matter, with great examples as well.
-- MJF
Tayssir John Gabbour
> I have on my desk a fully-executed addendum to my contract with
> Apress that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical Common
> Lisp_ online in perpetuity. I hope that having the book freely
> available will help bring new people to Lisp. So please spread the
> word--if you know someone who is mildly interested in Lisp, point
> to other Lisp resources, please consider adding a link to the book's
> web site[1]; if you're a blogger, blog away!
Thanks.
Did the APress guys mention any insights about this?
(My current guess is that it's obviously good for bringing interested
people into Lisp, but unknowable how this dynamic will work for book
sales. Of course, APresses knowledge trumps my guesses any day.)
Peter Seibel
> Peter Seibel wrote:
>> I have on my desk a fully-executed addendum to my contract with
>> Apress that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical Common
>> Lisp_ online in perpetuity. I hope that having the book freely
>> available will help bring new people to Lisp. So please spread the
>> word--if you know someone who is mildly interested in Lisp, point
>> them to the website; if you have a web site of your own with links
>> to other Lisp resources, please consider adding a link to the book's
>> web site[1]; if you're a blogger, blog away!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Did the APress guys mention any insights about this?
Not really. They believe that putting books online hurts sales. So we
did a deal where I take half the normal royalties for the first 4,000
copies. Thus, roughly speaking, if we sell 2,001 more copies than we
would have otherwise I come out ahead. Of course they come out ahead
either way unless the online version *really* canibalizes sales.
> (My current guess is that it's obviously good for bringing
> interested people into Lisp, but unknowable how this dynamic will
> work for book sales. Of course, APresses knowledge trumps my guesses
> any day.)
I wouldn't be so sure. Nobody has good data on this, as far as I can
tell. That is, I don't think publishers are able to estimate, in
advance, how many copies a book will sell. Thus it's impossible to
gauge the effect putting a book online has on sales, even after the
fact.
-Peter
Billy O'Connor
> I have on my desk a fully-executed addendum to my contract with Apress
> that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical Common Lisp_
> online in perpetuity. I hope that having the book freely available
> will help bring new people to Lisp. So please spread the word--if you
I am going to order a copy of your book right now, Peter, and inform
the publishers that the reason I'm buying it is that contract
addendum.
*Note* I hadn't heard of the book before now, being a part-time lurker
in c.l.l. :)
--
Billy O'Connor
Tayssir John Gabbour
> > Did the APress guys mention any insights about this?
>
> Not really. They believe that putting books online hurts sales. So we
> did a deal where I take half the normal royalties for the first 4,000
> copies. Thus, roughly speaking, if we sell 2,001 more copies than we
> would have otherwise I come out ahead. Of course they come out ahead
> either way unless the online version *really* canibalizes sales.
Wow, I hope that pays off for you. (defconstant +plug-mode+ t) ...
> I wouldn't be so sure. Nobody has good data on this, as far as I can
> tell. That is, I don't think publishers are able to estimate, in
> advance, how many copies a book will sell. Thus it's impossible to
> gauge the effect putting a book online has on sales, even after the
> fact.
True. Tim O'Reilly talked about the sales of two books, and while
they're fairly sure there's some "erosion of sales from the free
availability of the online" versions, they're still secondguessing the
markets.
http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/ask_tim/2002/osbooks_0302.html
rando...@gmail.com
goes on sale in Chapters (indigo) Canada, i'll definitely buy a copy :D
hehe, and it has definitely helped me on my journey to enlightment :D
George Jempty
> I have on my desk a fully-executed addendum to my contract with
Apress
> that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical Common Lisp_
> online in perpetuity. I hope that having the book freely available
> will help bring new people to Lisp. So please spread the word--if you
> know someone who is mildly interested in Lisp, point them to the web
> site; if you have a web site of your own with links to other Lisp
> resources, please consider adding a link to the book's web site[1];
if
> you're a blogger, blog away!
I just read the first chapter, and have called in sick to work today to
continue reading! Just don't remind the pointy haired boss that 20% of
absences are on Fridays ;)
I haven't read far enough but I think the first chapter would have been
the appropriate place. But you do not refer to the famous Eric Raymond
quote, and really that is my reason for learning Lisp: to "make (me) a
better programmer". Paul Graham likens learning Lisp to learning
Latin. I always likened learning C, for those with only scripting
language experience, to learning Latin (and the scripting languages to
Romance Languages).
Now I feel as though I'm embarking on Indo-European ;)
BTW if I like the online version enough I will be sorely tempted to
pick up a dead tree version
Peter Seibel
> Peter Seibel wrote:
>> I have on my desk a fully-executed addendum to my contract with
>> Apress that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical
>> Common Lisp_ online in perpetuity. I hope that having the book
>> freely available will help bring new people to Lisp. So please
>> spread the word--if you know someone who is mildly interested in
>> Lisp, point them to the web site; if you have a web site of your
>> own with links to other Lisp resources, please consider adding a
>> link to the book's web site[1]; if you're a blogger, blog away!
>
> I just read the first chapter, and have called in sick to work today
> to continue reading! Just don't remind the pointy haired boss that
> 20% of absences are on Fridays ;)
;-)
> I haven't read far enough but I think the first chapter would have been
> the appropriate place. But you do not refer to the famous Eric Raymond
> quote, and really that is my reason for learning Lisp: to "make (me) a
> better programmer". Paul Graham likens learning Lisp to learning
> Latin.
Heh. You would have liked the first draft of the intro; I used both
those quotes. Oh well.
> BTW if I like the online version enough I will be sorely tempted to
> pick up a dead tree version
Give in to temptation!
-Peter
Thomas Gagne
released as a paperback? For whatever reason I find technical books
easier to use (lying flat in front of the keyboard while trying examples
and exercises) than hardcovers.
Tim Lavoie
I wouldn't wait for Chapters to get it in. For a store that used to
have an excellent variety of techie, science and computer
books... well, let's just say that they have an excellent variety of
candles and greeting cards.
I'm sure they'll get one if you order it, but their techie books have
mostly descended to the Dummies books and certification guides.
Tim
Peter Seibel
I understand from Apress that this one will be hardbound. I'm not sure
why that is since they have books that are as many pages in paperback.
I don't know if it's like novels where if it's a big seller then they
do a paperback release. If I find anything out, I'll let you know. Or
better yet, you should ask Apress--presumably they have mechanisms for
tracking interest expressed in different books and different formats
etc. so by asking them you'll increase the chance of such an edition
being put out.
-Peter
Paolo Amoroso
> do a paperback release. If I find anything out, I'll let you know. Or
> better yet, you should ask Apress--presumably they have mechanisms for
> tracking interest expressed in different books and different formats
> etc. so by asking them you'll increase the chance of such an edition
> being put out.
Does Apress listen to, and care about, reader feedback? Is Apress one
of those companies that simply dump email or comments sent to their
web sites?
Paolo
--
Why Lisp? http://lisp.tech.coop/RtL%20Highlight%20Film
Recommended Common Lisp libraries/tools (see also http://clrfi.alu.org):
- ASDF/ASDF-INSTALL: system building/installation
- CL-PPCRE: regular expressions
- UFFI: Foreign Function Interface
George Jempty
>
> Does Apress listen to, and care about, reader feedback? Is Apress
one
> of those companies that simply dump email or comments sent to their
> web sites?
They've listened to me before. I was actually in contact with the
editor in chief. I complained that one of their authors apparently had
launched a campaign against my one-star review of his PHP book on
Amazon, which I've since removed though I've written about it on my
site: http://scriptify.com/output/written/2005/wr2/
Told them that if I wrote for them I would sign an agreement that I
would not troll Amazon. Got two or three emails back from the guy
(Gary Cornell). I was impressed with him, if not the author of the
book.
David Steuber
> I have on my desk a fully-executed addendum to my contract with Apress
> that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical Common Lisp_
> online in perpetuity. I hope that having the book freely available
> will help bring new people to Lisp. So please spread the word--if you
> know someone who is mildly interested in Lisp, point them to the web
> site; if you have a web site of your own with links to other Lisp
> resources, please consider adding a link to the book's web site[1]; if
> you're a blogger, blog away!
This is good news. I finally put a link to your book on my web site
incase my visitor ever comes back.
--
An ideal world is left as an excercise to the reader.
--- Paul Graham, On Lisp 8.1
Gareth McCaughan
> I have on my desk a fully-executed addendum to my contract with Apress
> that will allow me to keep the full text of _Practical Common Lisp_
> online in perpetuity.
Congratulations to you and to Apress. Well, actually,
almost exclusively to you, since it sounds like they
cut a pretty hard deal in exchange for something that
may actually improve their sales.
I don't generally do preorders because I like to
buy books in batches, but once the book's actually
published I'm ordering my copy and (unless it turns
out that my bank will screw me for doing it) sending
you a little cheque to compensate for the money you
lost on the reduced royalties for my order.
--
Gareth McCaughan
.sig under construc
Don Geddis
> I complained that one of their authors apparently had launched a campaign
> against my one-star review of his PHP book on Amazon, which I've since
> removed though I've written about it on my site:
> http://scriptify.com/output/written/2005/wr2/
Why did you remove the review? Apparently, you still believe in the
substance of your comments. I can't believe that Amazon would ask you to
remove honest opinion.
What prompted you to back down?
-- Don
_______________________________________________________________________________
Don Geddis http://don.geddis.org/ d...@geddis.org
Got Scripting?
>
> Why did you remove the review? Apparently, you still believe in the
> substance of your comments. I can't believe that Amazon would ask
you to
> remove honest opinion.
>
> What prompted you to back down?
Let me be clear. Nobody asked me to back down. That was my own
decision. Having brought myself to the attention of an entity (the
publishing company) that I'm sure has a lawyer at the ready, I got
paranoid about possibly getting sued.
Bob Woodham
I was told "Delivery estimate: Feb 13 2006 - Feb 17 2006" which I hope
is wildly inaccurate (now that the book has indeed gone to press).
On 2005-03-04, rando...@gmail.com <rando...@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter Seibel
> I pre-ordered mine on-line over a month ago via amazon.ca
>
> I was told "Delivery estimate: Feb 13 2006 - Feb 17 2006" which I hope
> is wildly inaccurate (now that the book has indeed gone to press).
It's supposed to be in warehouses April 11th. So I'd imagine Amazon
will start shipping sometime around then.
Thomas Gagne
shelf-life warrants a more durable binding. I can't disagree with
that--though all my paperbacks are still around...
David Combs
Peter Seibel
> Any chance of producing a .tar.bz file -- easier to download just
> the one (big) file?
Well, I'm trying to strike a balance between--"here, read this for
free" and "go buy the book". If you really want to download the whole
thing, it seems like wget will do the trick without too much effort on
your part and without me explicitly encouraging folks to download the
whole thing rather than buying the book.
Bud Rogers
> dkc...@panix.com (David Combs) writes:
>
>> Any chance of producing a .tar.bz file -- easier to download just
>> the one (big) file?
>
> Well, I'm trying to strike a balance between--"here, read this for
> free" and "go buy the book". If you really want to download the whole
> thing, it seems like wget will do the trick without too much effort on
> your part and without me explicitly encouraging folks to download the
> whole thing rather than buying the book.
It was a simple task to download the whole thing with wget. It took a
WHILE on my dialup line. It took most of a ream of paper and most of a
day of my time to print it out. It would be hard to claim that I saved
any money over buying the book. And I've already seen enough to know I
have to have the book. You can tell your publisher having the book
available on the web is the best marketing tool they've got.
Thanks, Peter.
--
ignorant bystander
budr at netride net
Raffael Cavallaro
> Well, I'm trying to strike a balance between--"here, read this for
> free" and "go buy the book". If you really want to download the whole
> thing, it seems like wget will do the trick without too much effort on
> your part and without me explicitly encouraging folks to download the
> whole thing rather than buying the book.
Just for some feedback on this issue, in case you're interested in the
impact of making it available for free on the web.
I downloaded the final version of the entire book using wget and
converted it to pdf using htmldoc. I could have had the pdf printed and
bound, but I bought a copy on Amazon instead for a couple of reasons.
First, I'd rather read a real book than a pdf on screen, or a printed
bound version thereof. Second, I want to support your efforts to make
common lisp more popular.
I don't think you have much to fear from making the book available on
the web. Those who don't buy it probably feel they can't afford it, and
wouldn't have bought it in any event, whether it was available on line
or not. Those who can afford to buy the book, like me, will buy it even
though they can have it for free in electronic form.
Best of luck with Practical Common Lisp, and thanks for all of your
efforts on behalf of the common lisp community.
regards,
Ralph