I've been reading the recent posts and older archives of comp.lang.javascript and am surprised by the sentiments expressed about the prototype.js library for a few reasons:
1) The library has been referred to as "junk" many times which is a strong opinion against the relatively high popularity of the library. I know popularity doesn't make something good.
2) People who use it are advised to "get a minimal clue". (Paraphrased. Search archives "prototype.js minimal".)
3) Those who criticize so strongly must believe they know better but the posts I saw containing the criticism did not indicate why the library is so bad.
I have used the prototype.js library a bit with a mixed experience.
I had very little success with the Enumerable iterators. Constant problems. They make for code that is bulky enough to match the size of a JavaScript for loop. In Ruby these types of methods are great but I don't think they work so well in JavaScript the way prototype.js implements them.
I have enjoyed using the event parts of prototype.js without any problems or even reading any of the code. It's usually the goal of a library to make it so the user doesn't have to know the library's internals. I'll count this as a success for prototype.js. However, after reading such criticisms I decided to look at the code just in case I got lucky so far. It turns out that for my application I was able to take only about 90 lines of prototype.js's 1800 lines. These lines are below. I've read them now. They seem ok to me. I would like to know if anyone thinks this is a weak part of the prototype.js library and why? Particularly comments regarding the browser incompatibility workarounds as well as overcoming the IE problems of the "this" keyword and bubbling (discussed on http://www.quirksmode.org/js/events_advanced.html).
One thing I wish was that prototype.js used a namespace (discussed http://blog.dreamprojections.com/archive/2004/12/27/450.aspx). This would mean the code that uses the library would not look quite so cool since it would not be possible to extend Event, Function, String, etc.
What do you like or dislike about prototype.js? Any reasons why prototype.js is "junk"?
I think a critical discussion of this library would be very educational for many people. I know that I am trying to "get a minimal clue".
petermich...@gmail.com said the following on 3/20/2006 2:26 AM:
> Hi,
> I've been reading the recent posts and older archives of > comp.lang.javascript and am surprised by the sentiments expressed about > the prototype.js library for a few reasons:
> 1) The library has been referred to as "junk" many times which is a > strong opinion against the relatively high popularity of the library. I > know popularity doesn't make something good.
eval is popular also :) But, as you said, popularity doesn't make something good.
> 2) People who use it are advised to "get a minimal clue". (Paraphrased. > Search archives "prototype.js minimal".)
The only person I recall using that phrase is Thomas and I won't comment on that part of it.
> 3) Those who criticize so strongly must believe they know better but > the posts I saw containing the criticism did not indicate why the > library is so bad.
First, I am not a big fan of libraries to start with. They have there place but I don't care for them. But the major problem, to me, with prototype.js is two-fold:
Lack of feature detection - it assumes a lot about what the UA does or doesn't support without testing for it.
Lack of technical support - That one is obvious from the amount of posts seen here asking questions about it. You don't see a lot of questions about Matt Kruse's libraries here (especially compared to prototype.js) because Matt supports his libraries.
petermich...@gmail.com wrote: > It turns out that for my application I was > able to take only about 90 lines of prototype.js's 1800 lines.
And that right there is one of the big criticisms of prototype.js.
It is a big monolithic do-everything solve-every-problem approach to scripting, and in most cases it's over-kill.
In an environment like this group where many 'experts' are of the opinion that libraries are bad and that everyone should become a javascript expert, you can imagine why such a big library approach is looked down upon.
Matt Kruse wrote: > petermich...@gmail.com wrote: >> It turns out that for my application I was >> able to take only about 90 lines of prototype.js's 1800 lines.
> And that right there is one of the big criticisms of prototype.js.
> It is a big monolithic do-everything solve-every-problem approach to > scripting, and in most cases it's over-kill.
That is one point.
> In an environment like this group where many 'experts' are of the opinion > that libraries are bad and that everyone should become a javascript > expert, you can imagine why such a big library approach is looked down > upon.
That is not a point at all for me. On closer observation, you will recognize that I use and provide many script libraries myself. I will probably use and provide a script library for XMLHTTP requests in the near future.
petermich...@gmail.com writes: > I've been reading the recent posts and older archives of > comp.lang.javascript and am surprised by the sentiments expressed about > the prototype.js library for a few reasons:
> 1) The library has been referred to as "junk" many times which is a > strong opinion against the relatively high popularity of the library. I > know popularity doesn't make something good.
Some people seem to need to vent their opinions in public. Without further arguments, it's just noise, since it doesn't help you evaluate whether the expressed opinion is one you can agree with, or just unfounded rambling.
> 2) People who use it are advised to "get a minimal clue". (Paraphrased. > Search archives "prototype.js minimal".)
See 1.
> 3) Those who criticize so strongly must believe they know better but > the posts I saw containing the criticism did not indicate why the > library is so bad.
See 1.
> I have used the prototype.js library a bit with a mixed experience. ... > What do you like or dislike about prototype.js? Any reasons why > prototype.js is "junk"?
I haven't even used it, so I am not in a position to unqualified call it junk. I have my reasons for not using it, which might be misguided ones, but I have yet to see something contradict them :)
- The most accessible features of the prototype library are shortcut functions. I can see why people want to abstract away feature detection and calls like document.getElementById if you use them much, but being a Java programmer by day, I value readability quite highly. Functions like $H, $A, and even $ are cute, but only readable by the initiated. Some of the shortcuts seem to be there just because they can. Compare Form.getElements("myform") to document.forms["myform"].elements Saving seven characters is not excuse enough for changing a known idiom to a proprietary shorthand.
- Size! I too am against monolithic libraries. If the different features could be extracted and used independently, you could compile your own library with just what your site needs. From what little I have seen, the features of prototype.js are depending on each other so much that separating them is non-trivial, i.e., not something a simple user can do. The size of version 1.4.0 is 47445 bytes. That takes 10+ seconds on a 28.8K modem, which is far too much.
- The class creation features have confused me before. A lot of action seems to be happening in a slightly non-standard way, where again only someone familiar with the framework has any chance of reading the result. That said, I think the library has simplified somewhat since then (or people have stopped trying to do everything in a roundabout way), and the examples I see now are much more readable.
- It extends Array.prototype. That means that you can't do for (var i in myArray) { ... } to iterate over the assigned elements of a sparse array without getting unexpected indices like "each" and "all". This is simply bad citizenship, since it can break other Javascript functions unrelated to prototype. This would be a deal breaker for me. I'm not alone, shows Google: <URL:http://blog.metawrap.com/blog/WhyIDontUseThePrototypejsJavaScriptLibr...> It appears version 1.4 doesn't extend Object.prototype any more, which is good, but Array.prototype is still heavily modified.
All in all, it seems to me that prototype.js is maturing and does have some useful additions, but it tries to be a framework, not a library, and that hinders readability and maintainability for people not familiar with it.
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: >> Why? One of the 10,000 out there already didn't quite do what you >> want? :) > Probably not. I have yet to review Sarissa, though.
What is it that you want, exactly? My lib does purely js-side stuff. I'd be curious to know what it doesn't do that you'd be looking for.
I also find that much of the preference for ajax libs comes from personal style. What seems logical to one person seems awkward to another. When I wrote mine, I first wrote code to implement a page with ajax functionality. I wrote the calls how I wanted to use it, then wrote the lib that acted on the methods. So the interface to the functionality felt right to me. Others have said the same. But of course, not everyone thinks the same way!
Matt Kruse wrote: > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: >>> Why? One of the 10,000 out there already didn't quite do what you >>> want? :) >> Probably not. I have yet to review Sarissa, though.
> What is it that you want, exactly? > My lib does purely js-side stuff. I'd be curious to know what it doesn't > do that you'd be looking for.
I have not reviewed your library either, since I have no need for XMLHTTP requests for the time being. If I discover something in the process that is not possible when using your library, rest assured you will be the first one to know.
petermich...@gmail.com said on 20/03/2006 5:26 PM AEST:
> Hi,
> I've been reading the recent posts and older archives of > comp.lang.javascript and am surprised by the sentiments expressed about > the prototype.js library for a few reasons:
> 1) The library has been referred to as "junk" many times which is a > strong opinion against the relatively high popularity of the library. I > know popularity doesn't make something good.
Yup.
> 2) People who use it are advised to "get a minimal clue". (Paraphrased. > Search archives "prototype.js minimal".)
That is one opinion, only got 2 hits when searched. Even 'prototype.js junk' only got 3 unique hits.
> 3) Those who criticize so strongly must believe they know better but > the posts I saw containing the criticism did not indicate why the > library is so bad.
A thorough evaluation of 1700 lines of code with 230 (or so) functions would take quite some time. The main issues are the size of the library, difficulty of abstracting parts of it to reduce bloat, changes to in-built objects and obfuscation - what does $('blah') mean to the uninitiated?
Some methods/function appear to offer very little, e.g. $() doesn't do any feature detection or offer any fall back for older browsers. If I really want a bunch of element references in an array I can write my own function with very little effort.
The other big problem is that the author publishes it without any documentation or comments. No doubt the response is 'the code is the best documentation' but to me that is laziness or lack of confidence - the author doesn't want to say what it should do or why it does it for fear of being wrong or highlighting an error.
Or maybe some Picasso-esque fear of being understood too clearly and therefore trivialised. Who knows?
The result is that it is very hard to determine whether it is 'working' correctly or not, it just does what it does. The various attempts I've seen at documenting it (discovered via Google) don't help at all.
RobG wrote: > petermich...@gmail.com said on 20/03/2006 5:26 PM AEST: > > [Why is Prototype.js considered junk?] > [...] > The main issues are [...] obfuscation - what does $('blah') mean to the > uninitiated?
> Some methods/function appear to offer very little, e.g. $() doesn't do > any feature detection or offer any fall back for older browsers. [...]
The `$' identifier being used for not machine-generated code is also disregarding ECMAScript Ed. 3 identifier recommendations, as Richard pointed out shortly ago.
Thanks for the insiteful replies. The ideas mentioned here will definitely help me build a better JavaScript library framework for my project with small modular chunks that can be read by any JavaScript programmer. I think I have something very cool cooking for libraries in general and a user interface widgets library in specific.